Tremulous Forum
General => General Discussion => Topic started by: player1 on January 27, 2009, 07:40:07 pm
-
... is already in progress over at the Mod Idea Palace sub-forum.
This is a general announcement: we are looking for team members who can guide us through the steps required to produce usable assets for a coder who has tentatively agreed to produce the mod for us. We have some people on board, including a modeler, a HUD specialist, a (possible) 2d artist (or two), several "beta testers" and "proof-of-concept" guys, maybe a mapper, and the aforementioned coder, whose time is valuable, and which we do not wish to waste.
If you would like to contribute, please feel free to visit us, and find out how you can help to create possibly the coolest mod for Tremulous ever.
If you would like to discuss why this sucks, there are several threads already decrying the notion, feel free to vent your spleen therein, or even herein, if it suits you.
I look forward to a useful and productive discussion. Who knows? Maybe this community really does want a three-faction mod, and maybe it's even capable of coming together to create one. Critique my silly ideas while you still can, at The Unvanquished (http://tremulous.net/forum/index.php?topic=9805.0), a Mod [Concept] Proposal for a Tremulous Third Race.
Cheers, fellow Tremblers.
-
hmm, im not stupid :-[
-
Clearly, you didn't read the post above you, nor the thread referenced in the post above you.
-
If you would like to discuss why this sucks, there are several threads already decrying the notion, feel free to vent your spleen therein, or even herein, if it suits you.
@amz181: Learn to read, dipshit.
-
ouch :-[
-
i dont think three teams would work for one simple reason. People double teaming. Theres no way to regulate it or to measure it so it would be an endless battle of "stop double teaming" and "Im not double teaming".
Unless you have thought of an ingenious way to tackle this paradox?
This is always a problem in three-team play. Yet sometimes, if it's well-made, people will play anyway. I think that if you play with cool people, on cool servers, "double-teaming" will be as much or as little of a problem as all the rest of the supposed "flaws" in Tremulous: camping, spawn-camping, team-killing, griefing, glitch-building, and etc.
You are definitely free to not play or participate, if you think it will suck, and I thank you for your input. If you are willing to suggest possible solutions to the "problem" you perceive, we would love to hear from you. If not, I beg to differ,and will be quite willing to agree to disagree, and bid you a fond "Good Day". Thanks for taking the time to comment.
Cheers!
plus +1'd in favor of an open discussion, which, as I said in the first post, can happen right here in this thread, as well; in other words, I applauded you for speaking your mind, and quoted you before you retracted it
@Kaine & Archangel: That's why I love you guys. [<3] rogl'd
-
This is a good idea. I for one would be very interested in it. I'm sure I've over-looked this, but I have read the thread(s), and maybe it would be possible to induce penalties to one team if they choose to team up with another? Like, penalize the teams that are double-teaming, like give them an environmental hindrance or an ability incapicitation or restriction in movement? All of those sort of dumb ideas, but it seems like it would provide a little "K" in the equation.
-
as long as im not gonna get hurt anymore... i'll talk... and just to defend my post, i did read the first post, but the title of this thread was, a serious discussion...
All the problems listed are hardly that large, sure camping is annoying, but its only for a small part of the game. Spawn camping is easily remedied by a kick, the same can be said for tking.
Teaming up will be all but too easy, and could even be done subconsciously, and in my opinion, not really a matter of the good will of the community, but just how the race functions. Trem works well because there are to easily distinguishable types. Range and non-range (dont say the goon snipe, its irrelevant, and isnt really used that often for killing). The problem that i see, is that if the third race lean too much to either side of range or non range, double teaming will inevitably happen. And though i do not doubt your balancing skills, it would be extremely hard to get a team which is in perfect contrast with both aliens and humans. And getting the right balance seems to be the only way that i think you could remedy the possibility
My only other slight nag, which is probably just me. Your third race sound a bit too fantasy, and rpgey, and doesnt (in my mind) fit into the whole trem genre. I would have preffered a sort of bipedal alien, or mutants or something. Having angel winged nymphs seems a little far from the whole sci fi feel of the game. This is only a slight nag, and i know that you probably wont change it now that you have your idea thought out so well. But still i think mutants or bipedal aliens would be good... Or even plant monsters !
-
My only other slight nag, which is probably just me. Your third race sound a bit too fantasy, and rpgey, and doesnt (in my mind) fit into the whole trem genre. I would have preffered a sort of bipedal alien, or mutants or something. Having angel winged nymphs seems a little far from the whole sci fi feel of the game. This is only a slight nag, and i know that you probably wont change it now that you have your idea thought out so well. But still i think mutants or bipedal aliens would be good... Or even plant monsters !
Cyborgs would fit. :)
-
Aliens hit S3, while humans and unvanquished are both still S1. Humans and unvanquished both attack the aliens. Humans hit S2, and split their assault two ways. It could open up hundreds of tactical maneuvers, especially if there WERE a team ally system! Perhaps a six team system. Two of each. The same teams start out allied, but alliances can be broken, remade, etc. There can be trades of monetary value, bases built within bases. Special structures available to allies, and only when they're allies. That would, of course, change the whole structure of the game, but that's what is happening anyway.
-
This keeps sounding better and better. :D
-
Yeah, I tried to squeeze in a lot of the various requests for different avatars with "Space Pirate Ninja Demonfolk".
But since the rumor is that they were originally created by the Humans (Haos Redro Corp. and/or Tumbo Robofacturing), it is entirely possible that they aren't really magical at all, and they aren't really demons, they're just some kind of futuristic combination of clone, drone, mutant and cyborg, with some animal* DNA thrown in for good measure. The whole "majickal daemonfolk" schtick could just be psychological warfare, used against the superstitious and suspicious Humans, who already fear the ravages caused by 41st century science.
Clarke's Third Law of Futurological Prediction: Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic.
*After all, two thousand years hence and twenty light-years from Sol, the camel and the elephant may be as extinct and legendary as the dodo or the unicorn; the only animals future Humans will be familiar with are similarly feral, invasive, weed-like species: pigeon, rat, cockroach, ant, dog, cat, crow, etc. (vermin species, like: Humans, dandelions, ivy, purple loose-strife, mice, rabbits, etc.)
tl;dr: Maybe they are cyborgs, and they're just messing with their enemies' minds, pretending that all of their weapons are "magic" and "spell-weaving". We still want the game to play like a shooter/slasher game. I do not want to make an RPG about killing swamp rats. I just think the Third Race should have area-effect and team-effect weapons, to make them play uniquely different from Humans and Aliens.
I thank you all for your comments and your interest. It is veteran good players who we must convince that this mod is worth playing. Thanks, Equi. amz181, I very much appreciate the critique, since you have presented your thoughts in a constructive and coherent manner. I hope you will remain interested in this mod, and that you will consider joining us, to help make it the mod you want it to be. Please continue to brainstorm on the possibility of double-teaming and alliances, for further on down the road this will be a bridge we will have to cross (probably burning it as we do). I still do not see it as insurmountable, for we can also simply have two-faction games on the curent maps (HvU, AvU, AvH), and until large, three-faction maps are created, this is indeed the way the "mod" will develop. Please feel free to follow the thread-link in my sig, and join in the conversation, or get on the team. Cheers!
@Plague Bringer/your face: This is why I love you guys. Positive mental octopus. 8)
@bleach: Thank you for your comments. It seems that you, Plague Bringer, and amz181 are already thinking of strategic and tactical considerations. We hadn't quite gotten to the actual mechanics of three-way gameplay, although we have spent about two months tweaking the weapons, ranges, damages, team-affect abilities, area-effect abilities, structure statistics and etc. I would welcome a discussion in this thread or elsewhere of potential alliance variables. We have our own forums, an active website, and may have a wiki in the near future. Join us, and help us make this the mod that you want to play!
-
Hmm, this is all speculation though. We'll never really know until the mod has its first release. Who knows, maybe it just works and double teaming isnt a problem. Either way, i eagerly anticipate the mod ;)
I'd offer to help, but all i can do is map, and recently ive got really peed off at a recurrent error im getting, so ive given that up for a while.
-
I'd guess double teaming wouldn't be that big an issue due to a total lack of trust.
I'm going to stab you in the back as soon as its convenient, and sure as hell expect you to do the same to me.
-
@David: Someone who understands war. Thank you. Nicely stated. I'm glad to see veteran players don't entirely discount the concept.
@amz181: We look forward to any ideas you wish to offer, and a mapping discussion is already underway at the appropriate sub-forum. I urge you to join us, and welcome any mapping you would like to do in furtherance of this project. I hope you are able to resolve your issue, and I eagerly anticipate seeing your work.
Cheers!
-
Aliens hit S3, while humans and unvanquished are both still S1. Humans and unvanquished both attack the aliens. Humans hit S2, and split their assault two ways. It could open up hundreds of tactical maneuvers, especially if there WERE a team ally system! Perhaps a six team system. Two of each. The same teams start out allied, but alliances can be broken, remade, etc. There can be trades of monetary value, bases built within bases. Special structures available to allies, and only when they're allies. That would, of course, change the whole structure of the game, but that's what is happening anyway.
To be viable, there would then need to be a "Team Commander" system implemented.
And this may have been addressed already, but once a team is defeated, what happens to the players on that team? Are they allowed to immediately jump to another team? And if team alliances were implemented, would you be able to enter another team's base while allied? You'd need to make it so base defenses wouldn't aquire them, but then again, they could just camp on top of their allies spawns, putting them at a severe disadvantage.
I think that before making a free-for-all version of the mod, you should work with a mapper to make a (or several) large map(s) with a series of objectives for each team that must be accomplished. The first team to complete the objectives then either wins, or is given Stage 3 while the others become locked in S1, and it becomes the S3 team against the two S1 teams in a "Total Annihilation" match. The entire time you're doing the objectives, you can see and/or shoot your opponents. Essentially, you must decide whether to attempt to advance your own team, build a haven for when another team gets S3, or hamper the other teams by killing them off as they attempt to complete their objectives.
-
and maybe it would be possible to induce penalties to one team if they choose to team up with another? Like, penalize the teams that are double-teaming, like give them an environmental hindrance or an ability incapicitation or restriction in movement?
If you have 3 teams there is a possibility that theymight team up, however creating penalties would just make people not want to play, how would you feel if the humans were s3 and the aliens were getting raped, and you know the humans would be after you next, so you help defend the aliens in the intrest of buying your own team some time + kills to next stage, then you get penalised for it I'm not trying to have a go at you or anything, I'm just saying that it would be a bitch to play and get penalised so your team is even worse off.
Anyway i think its bloody awesome that you are seriously incorporating a third team into trem good work guys, might i add how did you pick the race? I thought a predator race would be the third one, just seemed logical to me :P
-
I combined all of the requested entities into one humongous amalgam: Aegypto-Atlantean Anime Manga Death-Metal Futuristic Majickal-Tech Space Pirate Undead Ninja Zombie Mutant Cyborg Demon Monsters from Legend and Folklore. I hope you like it. I decided to include everyone's ideas.
We did a poll. A long, long time ago, and everyone thought we were joking. I wonder if that's still around here. It was a classic thread. :P
@Plague Bringer, Kaine, jake: I like where this discussion is going, and the late game is still under consideration, as we move forward with actual production of assets. Please continue, and thank you for your thoughts. I look forward to having you all as beta testers, and hearing your balance proposals.
Cheers!
-
I think that along with the three team system, a much more tactical and RTS type gameplay could be implemented. Perhaps a map system that is revealed as you go through the map. Weapons designed for a certain purpose, along with armors and equipment? Take the lasgun and the light armor to move fast and explore the map, looking for the enemy base. For this to be a viable option, though, we would require large maps, as well as a way to have different starting bases. Perhaps, like in TA: Spring, for example, in the lobby of the server, there is a way to designate where each team can have their commander start. Maybe if there were a way to designate where the certain teams could build, and then allow a designated builder five minutes to set up a basic base?
TL;DR: MAKE TREM RTS.
-
Plague Bringer, I think your early idea, while it sounds good in theory may fail to work out for one simple reason, there will hardly ever be enough players to make 6 teams anywhere near fun.
-
Agreed.
I like David's interpretation. I'll help you as long as it's beneficial to me, but stay out of my base, and watch your back.
:) ;) :P
-
Well, if you read the unv topic, I proposed an alliance system that prevented tk's and allies getting pwnt by their allies' structures. So you could build a tesla+trapper base if you had the resources. We haven't decided if the above will get implemented, and we have set aside what happens to the first dead team.
-
Thanks for the refresher. It's a good summation of progress so far. I think it will be a topic of discussion in this thread, since so many folks are interested in discussing it here.
-
When a team is defeated, the most simple solution would be for them to become spectators, just as if they had just joined the server. So they can spectate, disconnect, join either of the remaining teams if they want to.
All nice and well, BUT what happens to the scoreboard? (Which includes the question "how will a 3-team scoreboard look like", because the 2-team layout will no longer do.)
Again, the simplest would be to continue showing the scores for the defeated team, frozen as they were when they lost. While the scores for the other teams keep evolving as the game goes on (people connect and disconnect, kills change etc.)
-
Hi.
Please to not spam every board with your mod idea.
Discuss here : http://tremulous.net/forum/index.php?topic=9805.0
Thanks (and lockededed)
Khalsa