Tremulous Forum

General => General Discussion => Topic started by: Ogun on December 31, 2001, 04:39:00 pm

Title: how's progress?
Post by: Ogun on December 31, 2001, 04:39:00 pm

I heard you were working on a sequel to the old gloom. Used to map for this TC. Is this "officially" a sequel for the mod? How far have you come? Is this the same sequel as the one r1ch, hellbringer, DS et.c. et.c. worked on long ago? Have you planned a release in the near future?

Title: how's progress?
Post by: OverFlow on December 31, 2001, 07:38:00 pm

Its not a sequel, but it does have many of the same basic ideas in gameplay.  It probably won't be released for quite some time. :sad:

Title: how's progress?
Post by: Stannum on December 31, 2001, 08:00:00 pm

OGUN!!!!!!!! Hi!!! :grin:

Check the forums for pics and such. And be sure to read the story and design docs on the site (if they are still up)

Title: how's progress?
Post by: Veda on December 31, 2001, 10:19:00 pm

"Used to map for this TC."

For Gloom? What maps did you make?

"Is this "officially" a sequel for the mod?"

Ogun I did work on the original Gloom but this is not a sequel. It shares some gameplay ideas and expands on others.

"How far have you come?"
I think it's safe to say a majority of the code base is done or at least in position to add new material easily. Timbo has all the class, building, menu, weapon code in. There are still a ton of things to tweak though. You could technically play the game today if you didn't mind using Klesk and Sarge. We also don't have near the weapons coded yet.

"Have you planned a release in the near future?"

I apologize for the direct lack of information in the form of a highly detailed description page, etc. But the truth is we spend all the time we have on developing the mod instead of making a in depth website. Which most mods do the opposite.

Glean what you can from the screenshots and feel free to ask any questions on the forum, that is the easiest way to give information for right now.

As for a release date, it's hard to say because we have an ambitious amount of content, code & art wise to implement. We do have a direction we are going towards for beta, the goal isn't to get every feature in the game right away. Rather make it playable and add from there.

Title: how's progress?
Post by: Stannum on December 31, 2001, 11:51:00 pm

unlike nsq3 :grin: (ogun will know)

Thanks for the info!

Title: how's progress?
Post by: Ogun on January 01, 2002, 01:28:00 am

Hehe Satannum, I'll do so :smile:. Just took a quick look at the page before, I'll check it out again.

I made station41 (that was the first map I released, I know it's got bad gameplay , was too lazy to rework it very much also :wink:). I was working on a small campaign for it too (1 and a half map finished, looked quite promising actually), but then NS caught my interest hehe.

Title: how's progress?
Post by: Ogun on January 01, 2002, 01:35:00 am

Quote

It shares some gameplay ideas and expands on others.

I sure hope you'll keep the basic game elements of the old gloom! Such as gaining access to better classes after killing several enemies. But why the name tremulous? Why not simply Gloom II? Because developers have changed?

Title: how's progress?
Post by: M123 on January 01, 2002, 02:24:00 am

It's not a gloom sequel, just a mod with some similar elements, alien team vs human team, builders, defenses, spawns. Some differences as far as i can gather you bring back alien corpses for cash as grunt. Deposit them at the bank and can buy different weapons/armor for the money. Aliens evolve into higher classes in dead human bodies( I can hear the "YOU ****ING BODYSNATCHER, THAT WAS MY KILL AND BODY." already :smile: ) . Aliens can wallwalk, you can build alien structures on walls/ceiling.

That's about how far my knowledge goes.


Useless picture spam:



[ This Message was edited by: M123 on 2001-12-31 18:46 ]

Title: how's progress?
Post by: Veda on January 01, 2002, 06:34:00 am

"Aliens evolve into higher classes in dead human bodies( I can hear the "YOU ****ING BODYSNATCHER, THAT WAS MY KILL AND BODY." already  )."

That's a good rough summary M123. I understand your concern too, honestly we don't know how well that concept is going to work until beta.

How it works now is if you kill an enemy, you walk over to that corpse and hit the use key. If your alien you get a choice of upgrade, if your human you get credits. What does that do essentially? It slows the game down, makes it harder to advance and could potentially affect frame rates with a ton of dead bodies. Now a team could deprive the other team from an advancement by destroying the corpse but that falls under slowing gameplay. No one can say how that is going to work. We have an open mind, if it sucks in game, we will change it.

My honest concern is that it is "too much" as far as being able to get in the game. I suppose different people have different barriers on this subject. You can break it down to the following with regards to frags :

1 Stage : Kill enemy.
2 Stage : Move to location of corpse and hit use.
3 Stage : After hitting use, you now have to drag body to processing station.
4 Stage : At processing station you have to enlist the aid of another player to both hit use at the same time.
5 Stage : You now have to proceed to the production building where you recieve your weapon/class upgrade.

Gloom is a 1 stage game. So is CTF, TF, UT, etc. You kill the guy, that's it. The reward is yours. Currently Tremulous is at Stage 2, the other stages are just there to illustrate how far you could go. The more stages, the more increasing problems I could see.

Some people might want a 1 stage game. Some might want a 4 stage game, who knows. We will figure this out when we get there :smile:

Title: how's progress?
Post by: Ogun on January 01, 2002, 10:59:00 am

Ok sounds great! Keeping some ideas, changing others and adding some. Just what I would want a gloomsequel (ok I know it's not a sequel but anyway :smile:) to be like.

Title: how's progress?
Post by: Ogun on January 01, 2002, 11:06:00 am

BTW, I got 1 and a half q3gloom maps I made long ago. Maybe they could work for tremulous... One of them was q3gloom2, a new version of the beloved gloom2 map (one like that's gotta be in!! :smile:), the other one (which was only 50% completed) was a castle map with mountains around.

Title: how's progress?
Post by: Ogun on January 01, 2002, 11:20:00 am

Have you made any models yet? I think lots of time should be spent on the models, and ideas for the models, to make them as creepy as possible.

Title: how's progress?
Post by: Veda on January 01, 2002, 05:50:00 pm

Ogun yes we have some models made already :smile:

Roughly 20 buildable models, 2 of them just need skins but the others are already in game. This doesn't count gibs, mapobjects, some ui models. Bunch of weapons that while take some time to skin. And of course, the aliens themselves which should go pretty quick.

Hellbringer is doing the human model which he's finished, just waiting on me to map because I'll be skinning it.

Title: how's progress?
Post by: Stannum on January 01, 2002, 09:28:00 pm

Veda, I like the multiple stage concept, only stage 4, the get-another-player-to-press-use-too would get irritating imo. I wouldnt mind if slows the gameplay down. Not everything must be fast-paced action.

Title: how's progress?
Post by: Timbo on January 01, 2002, 11:42:00 pm

Quote

On 2001-12-31 22:34, Veda wrote:
Currently Tremulous is at Stage 2, the other stages are just there to illustrate how far you could go.

Title: how's progress?
Post by: M123 on January 01, 2002, 11:51:00 pm

I like fast paced action. But just pressing use on a body wouldn't slow things down too much. But the aliens needing a human body to evolve in will probably have to change. Or else I see the humans camping by their turrets, quikly running forward to get a alien corpse and any alien trying to evolve in a human corpse will get spammed to death before it pops out of the corpse.

Title: how's progress?
Post by: Veda on January 02, 2002, 04:53:00 am

That is interesting M123. I didn't think what turret deaths would do. I think Timbo was putting an owner on a death, Player A shoots an alien, he has 1 minute to claim it before it comes open for anyone. But how would that work with turrets? Making the bodies killed by turrets open for anyone does seem like it would give the humans an advantage.

The aliens do have structures that can kill but they are different than turrets. Even then, I'm not sure what kind of tactic that is if both teams are relying on that "you come to me, no you come to me!" idea.

Title: how's progress?
Post by: M123 on January 02, 2002, 03:46:00 pm

You'll probably want to have some anti basedefense camping incentives anyway. To stop certain valid military tactics that might have a place in a rts, but not in a fps/rts.
Either in the form of defenses that keep getting stronger if not attacked, like a lightning turret that keeps very slowly storing energy and zaps enemies who get close, or some health increasing defenses. So that the side not attacking in the beginning will have no chance of attacking later.
Or defenses that don't give absolute protection against basecampers or can't be trusted to defend the vital parts of the base completely, turrets with bad aim against fast targets or that can be temporarily disabled by some alien with an emp attack, alien defenses with long reload times, etc.. So that the defending side is at the strategic disadvantage that the enemy can destroy vital parts of it's base, instead of just the advantage that the defending team can rack up frags while protected by their defenses. Weaker defenses also eliminate the need of some large group of uberunits in the end to finally break open the enemy base after which the game is over in a minute.

Title: how's progress?
Post by: Arsonide on January 03, 2002, 02:41:00 am

DROIDS, not aliens, DROIDS, this is tremulous, not gloom

Title: how's progress?
Post by: Veda on January 03, 2002, 05:15:00 am

Sorry Arsonide the droids were scrapped a while ago.

Although it's going to be aliens, that is such a general term that could cover everything from Aliens to ET to Invaders From Mars. The aliens in Tremulous aren't 8 legged spiders like the ones you see in Gloom.

Title: how's progress?
Post by: Darkblade on January 03, 2002, 06:41:00 am

Aliens huh, okay a few questions about the ALIENS. The aliens of Gloom are clearly insectian, mostly arachnid and often aliens are portrayed thusly. So what manor of creature philus or genus do you plan to ,ahem "Gank" for your aliens creating purposes? Reptilian? Avian perhaps? perhaps the classic GREY? no. Acording to your buidlings listed(the HIVEMIND) in particular, The aliens are clearly insectian, as no other walk of life has this particular trait, Bugs and thats it. However you chould still retail the DRIOD theme by creating bizzare mutation hybrids of creatures with insects. Bear and an ant makes for a very fearce creature. Well mr. Smarty Veda, what are the aliens like?

*I apologize for my incorrect use of the word Genus and Philus

Title: how's progress?
Post by: Ogun on January 03, 2002, 10:39:00 am

So you've got many models ready atm for the mod? Why couldn't you upload them to the page in the next update? That might get even more ppl interested. Let's pimp this mod, so it gets the popularity it deserves, unlike gloom.

Title: how's progress?
Post by: Veda on January 03, 2002, 05:01:00 pm

"The aliens of Gloom are clearly insectian, mostly arachnid and often aliens are portrayed thusly."

Exactly - there is little difference between the hatchy/kamikaze and house spider. The drone (was) a giant flea or grasshopper. All the Gloom "aliens" have 8 legs, like spiders. The aliens in Tremulous won't make as clear associations with anything

I don't have a specific basis for creating all the aliens, but hard carapaces and legs will be common. I'm just not adhering to a principle of "All aliens have 6 legs" or basing any particular alien off an animal.

I am not going to get in the habit of releasing models or visuals before they are done but here is one example:




Ok, it has 4 legs and scythe like claws - the posture is almost like a gorilla, but it's blue and it has a hard exterior shell. I haven't modeled this one yet so I'm not sure how close it's going to stay to this design.

Here is a shot of the hivemind in modeler:



Now I admit , it does share some qualities with an insect or crustacean - but I did not base it off any specific creature. I wanted to make some menacing, perverted and creepy.

So yes, it resembles an insect an more than a reptile/bear/goose/kangaroo, etc.

"Why couldn't you upload them to the page in the next update? That might get even more ppl interested."

In due time, I get focused on creating artwork and forget to upload. But you are right - we do need some new screenshots.

Title: how's progress?
Post by: Sandy on January 04, 2002, 02:17:00 am

Will this mod have any kind of breeding in it?

I know thats what got a few pals interested in gloom.

hivemind is sexy btw.

Title: how's progress?
Post by: Veda on January 04, 2002, 06:28:00 am

There is a shitload of building. I think the building is real fun right now and it can only get better. The aliens can build these kind of organic fortresses fairly quick. The humans have more segmented structures in regards to their functionality.

For example the aliens regenerate on their own slowly. The humans have medistations they must build and then use.

We have the buildings pretty much locked now - I think we might add more after beta, see what kind of things people want or need.

Also the ceiling building is pretty trippy. You can crawl on any geometry and place buildings there.

Title: how's progress?
Post by: Stannum on January 04, 2002, 02:51:00 pm

cool ;]

Title: how's progress?
Post by: Ogun on January 04, 2002, 07:28:00 pm

This hivemind (I think that was the one I saw on the screens on the page), what does it do? Is it a building that aliens build, or is it like a main building, similar to the zerg hatchery in StarCraft?

Title: how's progress?
Post by: M123 on January 04, 2002, 10:55:00 pm

I think hivemind makes turrets work better, but that might have changed. Are those disc throwing turrets still in the game? Because they were pretty cool. But they'll probably cause a lot of lag if some discs get trapped in a narrow hallway and keep bouncing around. Might want to include feature that discs break if they change direction too often in a smal timeframe.

Title: how's progress?
Post by: OverFlow on January 05, 2002, 06:46:00 am

I don't think the aliens get turrets...

Title: how's progress?
Post by: Timbo on January 05, 2002, 06:59:00 pm

The hivemind is the central buildable item for the aliens. It controls all defenses beneath it - without the hivemind they cannot operate. The aliens must strive to defend the hivemind in order to win the game, a team without a hivemind will have inoperational defences.

The circular saw turrets are no longer in the game - they were merely an experiment in the droids phase of Tremulous' development. They wouldn't make sense with the current theme.

Title: how's progress?
Post by: Carcinogen on January 06, 2002, 11:07:00 pm

It's still good to see that some of the major gameplay ideas are still in place.

Title: how's progress?
Post by: Carcinogen on January 06, 2002, 11:11:00 pm

Quote

On 2002-01-01 20:53, Veda wrote:
That is interesting M123. I didn't think what turret deaths would do. I think Timbo was putting an owner on a death, Player A shoots an alien, he has 1 minute to claim it before it comes open for anyone. But how would that work with turrets? Making the bodies killed by turrets open for anyone does seem like it would give the humans an advantage.

And what if the Turrets simply pulverise the alien bodies? Of course, that's pending on the type of Turrets are going to be used.

Title: how's progress?
Post by: M123 on January 07, 2002, 12:56:00 am

Even if humans couldn't claim alien bodies killed by turrets, they could just stand by their turrets and occasionally shoot an alien, claim that one and any alien wanting to get an human body will get spammed to death. Same goes for alien side. But aliens have it worse, because they need to evolve inside a human body, while humans can just run over alien body to claim it. Maby aliens should be able to inject dead human bodies with some small aliens who digest dead human body from within and then those alien disperse and crawl back to base(yeah sure :smile: ), but this only counts as half a kill.

[ This Message was edited by: M123 on 2002-01-06 17:19 ]

Title: how's progress?
Post by: Darkblade on January 07, 2002, 03:09:00 am

Alright heres my preposal,

Aliens evolve inside of the body humans have to drag the body back to base, dragging it slows you a little. due to the encumbering, the larger the corpse the longer it takes to drag.

Title: how's progress?
Post by: Sandy on January 07, 2002, 05:53:00 pm

Killing a high class droid should give you all the points that the droid class was /worth/, so if you killed a high class human, you could evolve straight to a high class droid, and vice versa (depending on how many frags worth of materials that were in the victims class).

Balancing will be a real issue here, you need incentives for humans to 'not camp'

Title: how's progress?
Post by: Ogun on January 07, 2002, 06:42:00 pm

When talking about balancing and all, something else came to my mind - frag stealing. This is something we all know and hate. I think you should, instead of getting 'frags' which you later loose in exchange of a higher class, you should get 'points'. Let's say now (just as an example) that the points you get == the enemy's hit points divided by 50. So for killing a 200 points enemy all by yourself, you gain 4 points. This way the one who fires the killing bullet won't get all points.

Title: how's progress?
Post by: OverFlow on January 07, 2002, 09:37:00 pm

Just from my expirence with gloom, camping and frag stealing are not major problems.  The only time a team camps is when they are pinned down in their base, and you can't really do anything else in that situation anyways.  Frag stealing does happen, but I've never heard anyone complain about it.  Egg stealing though...

Title: how's progress?
Post by: M123 on January 08, 2002, 01:00:00 am

Maby it'll all work out fine. If humans and aliens can claim defense kills than the side under attack will quikly become the more powerfull one. And counterattack, etc.

Title: how's progress?
Post by: PeaceMaker on January 27, 2002, 12:58:00 pm

Am I still registered here? :smile:
The invasion of the nsq3 fans!!

Title: how's progress?
Post by: Stannum on January 29, 2002, 08:20:00 pm

Bah. I hope only the somewhat 1337 nsq3 fans will become tremulous fans. /me hopes the stupid fucks of -LL- stay the fuck away from here.

Title: how's progress?
Post by: Ogun on January 29, 2002, 08:38:00 pm

Quote

 /me hopes the stupid fucks of -LL- stay the fuck away from here.

Me too..

But it's alright, I'm here now!! lol :smile: