Tremulous Forum
General => General Discussion => Topic started by: rasz_pl on July 13, 2006, 07:59:43 am
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http://digg.com/linux_unix/Tremulous_The_best_free_software_game_ever
http://entertainment.newsforge.com/article.pl?sid=06/07/06/0414224
Expect more feeders and 'creative' builder^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ new faces :)
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.. more people for noobs to scream "STUPID NOOBS" at when their team starts loosing.
Its been on digg before..... made it to the front page again though!
I got so far behind reading digg i just gave up.. a lot of good news.. .. too much for me to handle in any reasonable ammount of time..
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well I came here from digg :) wow its been a month allready
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my problem is, that people that will play for a hour and say it suck's because they dont know how to play
they will say the game is unbalanced....
when i first played CS i thought it sucked, but after a while i realized its a good game if u dont suck....
so if we could get a way to get them hooked faster the game would grow maybe 2 times faster then the rate that it already is(which is already very fast)
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when i first played CS i thought it sucked, but after a while i realized its a good game if u dont suck....
Funny, I liked CS at first and played quite some time and now I think it sucks :) Amazingly enouth, one of the things I loath in CS is present in Trem : the cash you get killing other players and used to buy equipment :)
The other thing I loath in CS is how everybody says it's a realistic game when it is barely more realistic than Unreal Tournament.
Anyway, back on the original subject, I agree with you. Trem needs a gentler learning curve. As it is now, there are too many things around which can rebute new players.
One of the worse things in my opinion is the destructive effect of novice players on a team. You see, there is no other popular team game around where having a novice player is even worse than having one less player in your team.
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novice's also get bitched out when they block by acident....
if we could stop the bitching PLZ
and i think that maybe if we had some noob only servers LoL
with a admin that kicks u if your too good xD
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novice's also get bitched out when they block by acident....
if we could stop the bitching PLZ
Exactly ! The problem with a noob which causes experienced players to lose, is that they get yelled at quite often :( Unfortunately, I guess it's easier to change the game than to change the players behaviour :)
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novice's also get bitched out when they block by acident....
if we could stop the bitching PLZ
and i think that maybe if we had some noob only servers LoL
with a admin that kicks u if your too good xD
I agree. I have played Tremulous few months and i hate where it is going. So much "fuck off" "God damn noob stay fucking away from me" "We have a deconner, (kick him before he founds button to reply that he is just a new player)" and so on. It feels like eveyone hates everyone. Mayby that is one reason why there is so many angry kids ruining others game by deconning. Admins should kick people with bad mouth too. And we realy need some way to remove deconning problem. I dont mind if someone is new and fucks up, but worst problem in Tremulous is that kick votes are useless against those that only want to ruin others fun.
Lets try to undestand others and get along people. More fun, less yelling.
And noob server would be perfect (in every online game). I saw one named by that, but no idea how populated it is.
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and the whole clan thing might help, cuz if clans have all the good players, so the good players arent going to be bitchen at each other cuz they know!
so i think if we remove them from public servers then the game willl be just that much better
now i yell everyonce and a while
but not cuz of blocking... say u build the human base in the most retarded spot all i say is: GG
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The thing is people need to stop taking games so seriously that every time they get killed they don't have to blame someone. So your a tyrant and you turn to run and some dretch is in the middle of the hall and blocks you and won't move and you get killed... just tell him to stand to the side next time.. don't explode into some childish fit and start carrying on about noobs.. you teach the noobs.. its a game.. if you don't suck, you will get your points back and be a tyrant again... its not the end of the world... have some respect... unfortunately i think the people that need to get it are the ones that aren't on this forum to read this anyway.. :/
It is annoying however when they keep doing it... the other day there were some noob builders and the other players were giving them advice for once instead of flying of the hinge, but they just kept on screwing the base up and not listening to anybody..... if your a noob.. SPECTATE A BUILDER and listen to your team.. if you don't speak english or the language of the server (there is noone there to translate for you).. SPECTATE LONGER.... i hope all you non english speakers read this.. :P
We need a noob server... and we need some non-english servers....
I DON'T THINK PEOPLE WILL PLAY TREMULOUS FOR AN HOUR AND SAY IT SUCKS though.... games don't seem to stay unbalanced for some of the ungodly ammounts of times i've seen in some other games.. after a few rounds things tend to even out.
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Please be encouraging and helpful to new players if you're a Tremulous vet. It's a pretty steep learning curve even if you have played something like Gloom or another mod involving class based team gameplay. If they have tons of questions please refer them to this forum where the faq is, or have them join the IRC channel.
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Thing is about the telling off of newbies: must vets have tried explaining why they tell newbies to not do something. The newbies of course know EVERYTHING and disregard the instructions. True it's taking a game seriously...but so is sports. Peoples recreation is a serious thing. When you have some ignorant little twit pissing all over your fun time you have the right to be upset with the person.
I mean honestly it gets to the point where you have to honestly ask yourself, why bother explaining, they just won't listen. In my own case, I've lost count of the number of time I've explained why dretches during both teams S3 should not be anywhere near human base....yet every day my adv goon or tyrant is BLOCKED and killed cause some newb has his dretch crammed so far up my ass it gets a pulse rifle to dislodge the moron.
The reson why there is so much newbie hate? Only one in ten newbies actually bothers to learn to play the game and will stick around. The other 9 are there to fuck around with something free and will likely quit in a week anyways.
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No, the main problem is that novice play is incredibly negative. Feeders, bad builders and blockers are a game feature which could be changed for the best. Not sure how though ( except for the feeder problem ;) )
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Feeding and bad building come with the learning curve and shit happens. But what I've also lost count of is how many newbs argue with me, a vet such as I am, on how to build. Even after explaining I have had newb builders deconn MY work and continue to attempt the build I've seen a dozen newbs try and fail every fricken time.
It's the ones who think they know EVERYTHING which pisses people off. If newbies started LISTENING and accepting advice the hate would like slacken a bit, but as I mentioned 9 out of 10 are there to fart around. They don't care that people are there to play and have fun (and deny as anyone chooses but winning is more fun than losing especially due to a lone wolf rookie wanting to do things his way), they care only that they can try every feature not that in their rookie playing they're screwing over a whole team of other players.
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The thing is people need to stop taking games so seriously that every time they get killed they don't have to blame someone. So your a tyrant and you turn to run and some dretch is in the middle of the hall and blocks you and won't move and you get killed... just tell him to stand to the side next time.. don't explode into some childish fit and start carrying on about noobs.. you teach the noobs.. its a game.. if you don't suck, you will get your points back and be a tyrant again... its not the end of the world... have some respect... unfortunately i think the people that need to get it are the ones that aren't on this forum to read this anyway.. :/
Amen.
It is annoying however when they keep doing it... the other day there were some noob builders and the other players were giving them advice for once instead of flying of the hinge, but they just kept on screwing the base up and not listening to anybody..... if your a noob.. SPECTATE A BUILDER and listen to your team.. if you don't speak english or the language of the server (there is noone there to translate for you).. SPECTATE LONGER.... i hope all you non english speakers read this.. :P
Amen boy.
I agree 100% with PIE. Unfortunally is hard to stay calm that way and being _CONSTRUCTIVE_ with comments and do as PIE say.
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I like noobies, they make me work harder to keep things straight.
But for real, teaching them is hard ingame while you are playing.
Sometimes I 'adopt' a player, follow him in spectator mode and try to give him some usefull advise besides don't do this, don't do that. Just wish there was a spectator->followed chat so the teaching wouldn't interrupt the game and only affect the player.
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Could always use the Chat - Target key (default u), of course is hard to do in chase cam since it's not third person
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Once you start typing you also lose him since he will most likely keep moving. That's why I spec from his point of view and type.
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Feeding and bad building come with the learning curve and shit happens. But what I've also lost count of is how many newbs argue with me, a vet such as I am, on how to build. Even after explaining I have had newb builders deconn MY work and continue to attempt the build I've seen a dozen newbs try and fail every fricken time.
just LET THEM BUILD, tell them WHY and WHEN and HOW their base will fail, then switch sides and RAPE the base. 2-3 times and they will learn.
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New players should first spectate a builder to see how he works, instead of going in game and ruining it for other players. Also, the amount of players ignoring the manual and thinking other players are walking manuals is staggering. If someone has read the manual, checked the forums, and still has questions, anybody would be happy to answers them. But people are mostly too lazy to get some info themselves, and therefore rely on other players to give them that info, which naturally induces annoyance.
So, to all new players, Tremulous is not harsh, neither are it's players, but Read the Manual before you start playing, check the forums if you need info, and spectate some builders before you start building yourself.
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I fukd the manual when i started playing :roll:
Altho i was listenin to people tellin me wat to do nd i never buit ^^. I was only repairing buildings cuz i knew dat ill fuk the gme if i wud start building :wink:
Just tell em wat to do, they shud listen :) I did anyways :P
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Dodo, you still do stupid things all the time, ever the muted one... ;)
Danny
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Forget the manual, normal people do not read them. RTFM isn't a valid answer btw : the game should be ovious enouth without the need to read the manual.
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maybe a tutorial?
EDIT built in tutorial
that tells u what things do
and stuff like taht
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RTFM isn't a valid answer btw : the game should be ovious enouth without the need to read the manual.
That strongly depends on the game. Learning by doing is fine but there are some things you may only learn from the manual. If a game is more complicated than join and start killing it is necessary to make yourself familiar with gameplay mechanics to be a decent player.
The Tremulous manual is good. It is short, well written to the point and RTFM is an easier answer for both sides. Having a hundred questions answered one after the other is no fun, answering them all is worse, answering them multiple times may get hell... especially when all the answers are well compiled in a manual.
Well, the manual is currently being translated to german by tremulous.de so I know what I am talking about... ;)
Danny
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The manual could use some work. It could stand to mention the mass driver scope, that acid tube damage is determined by proximity, and other random things that you actually need to have someone tell you.
It's kind of frustrating to join a server, and see all of these acid tubes artfully placed all over the base to spray acid everywhere, but that are only able to minimal damage since they are placed as such.
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+ damages should be added to manual, there is a beutfull thread on this forum with damages listed for every gun and alien, there are no such information in the manual :(
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I have never seen a manual that gives away exact game-mechanics like damage-points. This is something for geeks, the manual is a document to give beginners something they can orient themselves at, not a bible... ;)
The hint with the mass driver zoom and tubes is a good point, though!
Danny
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The main problem here is that most freshlings chose to play on the largest servers possible. This causes 2 problems.
Vets can't teach them on large servers since there is simply too much going on.
Th other is anonymity.
If there is 15 players on each team, you building wrong and being an idiot will not get noticed until it's a bit late. (this is especialy true for servers with increased build points)
I play on KillaZ often and teach noobs quite often how to build or fight, alien or hummie. I'm yet to find someone who didn't listen and try to learn.
However, if u play on AKKA or the new insane FF on server (forgot the name, sst something) and u tell the granger not to build the trapper on the floor and beg him to make a booster, as well as telling a dretch "timbo gave u wallwalking, use it", I get a nice "STFU n00b". :roll:
I got 5 of those today, telling morons not to shoot the teslas and not to lucy, nade, flame, pulse base defending it.
When i suggested defending base with painsaw and a bsuit, i got laughed at.
So now i stick to small servers and I have to say, I'm having fun again. ;)
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*bump*
this is a important article for Tremulous xD
and we need to re open the discusion on a easier learning curve 8)
and i think u should all not be as MEAN! :evil:
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First: Hello Forum it's my first post.
Second: I like the idea with the Tutorial very much. When someone installs the game for the first time (e.g. no config found) the user must make the tutorial. It should be escapable but the user must go through everything before it's possible to play online.
This would be very handy and I don't see any drawbacks there.
I started playing this week so I'm a newb too but I'm used to read through manuals and such. Anyhow I had to realize that Tremulous is not a game to just quickly get in and play. You have to learn before you play, or should have done it at least. To get this you have to realize yourself, nobody will tell you and then you have to search for the manual for yourself. These are major hurdles for many players I can imagine.
Third: I assume the tutorial idea is realized for now. Then the user needs experience for sure as we all need. As a beginner he needs "beginner" experiences and though he will also make "beginner" mistakes
Therefore I would find it good if new users have to play the first 10 games on specialised newb servers. There could be a counter or such in the config which is changed every time when a game is made.
The player must play 5 games with each race and will get experiences from both.
Those newb servers shouldn't be closed for more experienced users because if newbs play with newbs the learning curve is not so steep as if they play with better players and the "professionals" ;) know that these are newb servers and can easily decide if they want to play with newbs or not.
End statement: I know that all these flags which have to be set in some kind of config can be easily overcome by everybody but thats the good point on it. First time players will hardly never want to overcome those obstacles as easy and fast as possible because they are interested in the new stuff. (well, Tutorial shouldn't be too boring)
Players who deleted Tremulous or want to play it on another computer can crawl through the Forum, the page or Google to find how to disable this beginner stuff.
I also like the idea that the disabling shouldn't be too easy (e.g. in the menu settings of the game) because if someone already get the idea that it must be possible to change that and start to crawl, the person is somebody who is used to learn by the way like it's now.
The other thing is that users need to have a little pressure to go through the beginners course because when it is too easy everybody will escape it as quickly as possible and thinks that this is not necassary because learning by doing is more fun and almost as fast as the tutorial which is true for many games but not for tremulous.
thx