Tremulous Forum
General => Feedback => Topic started by: poieo on July 17, 2006, 09:48:29 pm
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Rush rush rush, camp camp camp. That's all this game is. All aliens can do is rush because all marines ever do is camp. I'm going to use Natural Selection as a point of comparison; it's a slightly different game, but it's the only way to get at the nature of this game's many problems. Largely, it's an issue of urgency and a complete inability to meet it should a sense of it exist.
NS propells teams forward by the sense of urgency that's created by the necessity of resource nodes. You camp, you don't get nodes. You don't get nodes, you don't get resources. You don't get resources, you get outpaced by the other team who can afford better species and weapons. Tremulous has none of this. There is absolutely no reason to leave the base as a marine, because you can get kills -and therefore, money- by staying right next to your armory.
There are sub-issues at play here. The first is the magazine size of the default marine weapon; there's no excuse for keeping it that small.
The second is the building system. In NS, commanders push forward slowly by building up areas as the squads go. In Tremulous, not only is the amount of structures extremely limited, the effort needed to move anything is far greater than it's actually worth. To move forward, you'd need to decon something, taking away from base defense, which is bad since it's the only thing that keeps aliens at bay. To build it up, you'd need the entire team with you for cover because it takes so long to actually construct something.
That itself is impossible because the damage models are WAY the fuck off. Every single game, i see Marauders going up against light armor marines and winning. And Marauders come out 2 minutes in. Last night i played a game where a Marauder attacked 4 marines, all of whom concentrated their fire on it, and STILL came out alive because 4 full magazines weren't enough to do anything. Conversely, the Marauder took each marine down with 1 or 2 hits. It's most intuitive for marines to hole up in their base simply for the fact that at no point during the course of the game will they feel like they're capable of doing ANY appreciable damage to targets that are stronger, tougher, and faster than they are. The game teaches them that not even greater numbers matter. They stay in their base because the turrets are more reliable than they could ever be. They learn this from the fact that turrets and long hallways are the ONLY things that give aliens pause.
So, the weapons. Even the shotgun feels like shit. In NS i used to chase fades down with an LMG. I am the epitome of ballsy playing. In Tremulous, there is no, NO reason for me to think i want to be anywhere other than right next to my armory. Personally, nearly every weapon is crippled by ammo capacity. With the sheer amount of firepower it seems like it takes to take anything down, the game constantly shouts at me the notion that i'm either going to be caught during a reload (which takes too fucking long, keeping me next to the armory. Don't cripple the armory, SHORTEN THE DAMNED RELOADS.). If i don't, the max ammo capacity strongly suggests that i'm going to run out by the time i get anywhere from the base. That's IF something doesn't spot me and my squad and take us out in 1 hit each. Worse if FF is on. And unlike NS, there's no commander to drop ammopacks for me. I've gotten basilisks down to near death with the shotgun countless times, but it always manages sto scamper away because of the magazine capacity and the fact that the RoF feels like i'm on a leisurely quail hunt rather than an urgent fight for my life.
No perception of damage dealt, no percievable upgrade structure, no apparent counter to anything, no reason to leave the base. This is made worse by Tremulous' strange lag. Even with 50 ping, i'm never sure how much i have to lead something. THIS IS UNACCEPTABLE when you're trying to pin down a fast-moving alien. Double-fucked if you're trying to do it with a non-hitscan weapon.
The only exception to this is on the Alien side, with the Dretches. What fucking IDIOT came up with the 25 health max? I quit a server and look for another if i'm auto-teamed to Aliens past the first 3 minutes of the round. There's absoultely NO WAY to get the points to evolve into anything. This makes playing pointless, since again, marines have no reason to go anywhere a Dretch would be able to use its abilities. Dretches, at that point, exist only to make marines feel like they're capable of doing something. They're obsolete almost immediately, compared to NS' skulks, which remain viable against everything except bases and heavy armor. NS skulks are valid "resource saving" forms, while Dretches are target practice.
And on that note, please make wall walking more disorienting. I love having that ability completely nullified by the complete impossibility of being able to tell where i'm going, or if the game's going to suddenly decide to toss me off the ceiling for no reason.
But back to the weapons again, on the alien side i find myself sighing every time i come across someone with a batterypack and a lasrifle. The other side of the extreme, a magazine capacity that allows and encourages spray-and-pray spamming. Some of the better weapons, the pulse, flame, and chaingun, are all meant for spamming. Spam creates a guarantee that you're going to take some damage no matter what you do. Spam creates the only viable role a marine can take, which is that of a reinforcement for turrets. More camping follows. The heavy weapons like the Lucifer are the stereotypical "Strong but worthless for CQB" weapons, which also do nothing to encourage people equipped with one to move out. There also aren't really any appreciable structures that a player would instinctively want to use them on either.
Let's move away from that for a minute though. There's the issue of communication. If a team were to make the irrational move of heading out from the base, it's an act that requires a massive amount of coordination because of everything above. This communication is completely unsupported by Tremulous, which doesn't even have hotkey-driven voice macros. That's not even the most important thing though. Voicecomms are. Games like this need built-in voicechat. Period.
So, ultimately, the marine base is the only thing that aliens cant immediately trample over. Because of that, the base is constantly the focus. All the more reason to feel you need to stay in it and help defend. More camping. And thanks to the maps, there are generally only 2 doors into the base, with none of NS' many airducts and tunnels facillitating accesss to the smaller alien species. There's no way to harass the marines into coming OUT of their base in Tremulous. MORE CAMPING.
This game could be fan-fucking-tastic because it eliminates the biggest problem with Natural Selection, which is the commander role. But as it is, playing Tremulous is an unmitigated waste of time. You guys have a lot of work to do. It's time for you to actually start thinking about the structure of the game now that you have the concept.
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I have to note, as a dretch, i can easily get 7 to 15 kills within 3 to 5 minutes.
You just need practice on it.
It's frustrating at first, but after a while, you get the hang of it.
Also, the camping-attacking nature is something to be dealt with.
As a fulltime alien, it's REALLY frustrating to always be the attacker that get's slaughtered because your fellow dretches feeded the humans to S3.
The game can be fun though, but you need fun people for it, which i haven't found a lot yet :cry:
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First of all, this game isn't supposed to be a better NS. Second most of the things you mention happen because of unexperienced players. There are enough experienced players who take on goons with a $150 shotgun. Same way dretches are excellent offensive classes in stage 1 and 2 but indeed become obsolete in S3, again matter of experience. I've seen marauders fall to dust against good humans and bs run in fear because of them.
What you are dealing with isn't really a problem with the game but with the people you are playing with.
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OH MY GOD TREM IS SO WRONG BECAUSE I DIE A LOT! AS AN EXPERIENCED NS PLAYER I REQUEST.. NAY, I DEMAND! THAT THE GAME BE ALTERED IN WAYS THAT MAKE IT EASIER FOR ME
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Wow, a 1-line response, in all caps, from a dev. So much for discussion on feedback, and i'm just SO glad i cared enough to express my perspecitve.
No wonder the game's languishing in obscurity. Couldn't have happened to a better equipped team.
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LoL. You, sir, have just made a fool of yourself. One full rifle clip, IF ALL SHOTS HIT will kill a Dragoon. If 4 people were shooting at a Marauder, then either their aim sucked, or the M was really, really good at dodging.
As for your complaints about Dretches, yes, it is hard to play as a Dretch once the Humans get past S2. HARD, but not impossible. I suck and I can make 3 kills as a Dretch in under a minute if the Humies don't know how to counter it. Not haveing to click to bite is a MAJOR advantage.
Your "Humans camp, Aliens Rush" is also flawed. If the humans don't attack, they get about 1/4 of the kills they would otherwise. Humans who never hunt die, unless the Aliens feed the hell out of everything.
And there is an option to turn off auto-view pitching while wallwalking. I forget the exact path, but it's there and it helps.
Good day.
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Every single game, i see Marauders going up against light armor marines and winning. And Marauders come out 2 minutes in.
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The only exception to this is on the Alien side, with the Dretches. What fucking IDIOT came up with the 25 health max?
Trem force dretch to play better. Use skill. And some people CAN kill and evolve to mara. Notice that some people ignore the basilisk class, this is because need even more skill than mara. This is a game that enforce skill. And that is good for a multiplayer game.
Also, yes, seems that all human weapons are nerfed. So you switch from lucy to laser because different aliens bases can be killed with different weapons. And thats a good thing. Theres no "camper railgun god's" that kill everything on sight like... on every other quakebased game.
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Perhaps if you were a bit more concise and had some basic modicum of manners you'd get a better response. As it stands it seems like you hate everything purely because it doesn't resemble NS. That's fine, but you need to realise, this is not, never has been and never will be a clone of NS.
You make some good points, you also make a lot of points that are obviously formed through inexperience. It's also obvious that you have little to no experience/understanding of the processes involved in developing a computer game, especially when you have precisely zero budget available to you and therefore extremely limited testing resources. (Hopefully the latter will change now that Tremulous has gained some popularity.)
Tremulous has only really had one proper release, and has been developed entirely in peoples' spare time. Of course it's gonna be a bit rough in places. Your frankly, abrasive, destructive tone is wholly inappropriate. I'm prepared to discuss things sensibly, but not when being insulted.
Goodnight.
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Yes, everybody. I'm obviously lacking the skill necessary to successfully penetrate a turtled base with 25 health. I'm absolutely SURE that'll change with practice.
I'm also sure most dragoons and marauders are perfectly willing to forgoe the use of their superior speed and agility and stand perfectly still while i make sure every single bullet in a magazine hits them. Things like players, you know, MOVING are actually a myth, as is latency.
Thank you all for that valuable advice though.
Perhaps if you were a bit more concise and had some basic modicum of manners you'd get a better response. As it stands it seems like you hate everything purely because it doesn't resemble NS. That's fine, but you need to realise, this is not, never has been and never will be a clone of NS.
NS was used as a point of comparison for the motives that Tremulous lacks. It was used as a way to contrast and compare - faculties most humans other than you, apparently, are capable of. It was a lengthy post SPECIFICALLY BECAUSE i wanted to point out that the problem WAS NOT simply that it wasn't NS. You got hung up on this point because of the typical knee-jerk ego-salvaging that goes on with projects built by nobodies. So, in essence, i'm sorry it wasn't short enough to suit your evidently mono-syllabic parsing abilities.
You want to take the time i put into that and dribble "Durrrr, you don't like it because it's not NS" out of your slobbery mouth? Fine. Not my problem if this game goes on as the massive trainwreck it currently is. I'm not paid to coddle you through the design process any more than you are to blunder through it on your own.
It's also obvious that you have little to no experience/understanding of the processes involved in developing a computer game, especially when you have precisely zero budget available to you and therefore extremely limited testing resources.
Oh please. More pathetic ego-salvaging. Do you know me, jackass? Furthermore, how much experience do YOU have developing a game? See, sport, usually when some dipshit tries to play this card, they at least have the courtesy of having something mentionable under their belt.
Tremulous has only really had one proper release
Yeah, you're really impressing me with your wealth of experience here.
Of course it's gonna be a bit rough in places. Your frankly, abrasive, destructive tone is wholly inappropriate. I'm prepared to discuss things sensibly, but not when being insulted.
"Blah blah blah, i'm such a pissant that any criticism other than the weakest and most superficial is considered an attack."
This is feedback, fuckwit. Not some ritual baring-of-the-throat for the "gift" of slapping togethera broken game.
Good luck. If this is your attitude at getting your shit together, then you're not long for this industry.
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This is no feedback, this is a bash. Many people like this game. If you don't like it just don't play it. Easy as this, Troll dich!
Danny
P.S.: I currently know no better "waste of time" than this ;)
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Tremulous really feels weird , from a NSer's point of view ; but I have to say it is also very different from about any other mod in existence , gameplay wise. None relies so much on skirmishing and hit&run tactics to unlock strategic advantages. But this only comes from a lack of real objective - imagine what Tribes II or Team Fortress Classic would be without flags...
Following this , tactics are rather strange - their focus is survival , since the odds of fragging are very low more often than not. Since aliens can hardly outrun humans , they are usually forced to disengage before doing any damage , and can only chase humans when they are alone and very far from their base.
Landing headshots successively takes either luck or mad skills , but increases the frag count (and therefore winning chances of aliens) enormously. Good players with expanded lifespan can make use of luck , but the best seem godlike , since they combine dodging skills with melee aiming skills. It is normal that newbies feel they have no chance against them ; and since it is more satisfying to play as an alien with higher skills , odds of winning may seem balanced although the game is not.
Besides killer turrets , olympics level sprinting and maybe questionable lucifer use , I don't think the human team is unbalanced. The alien team is - they still lack many counters (only real ranged weapon being stage 3) so human camping fully exploits the lack of real objective.
Tremulous has only really had one proper release, and has been developed entirely in peoples' spare time. Of course it's gonna be a bit rough in places. Your frankly, abrasive, destructive tone is wholly inappropriate. I'm prepared to discuss things sensibly, but not when being insulted.
Seconded. There is no justification for being outright rude to devs , especially of an open source game. I just hope that mere anger from NSers won't deter you from fixing the mentionned problems and consider their input...
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Farstly are you runnang linux build? If no then you not expariance treamulous in best glory it has. It has much glory and maybe you think NS is not as good but maybe it is but probabli isnt. That what I htink as linuax associate programmar.
But seriausly Tremuloas not bad game if you have time to play and not thinking about NS? DO NOT THINKS ABOUT NS WHILE PLAY BECAUSE NS MAKEs THE HEART GROW FONDER? NS has many gampleay elemants that make it so fun. I spend hours today playang NS and thinkang how good it is. Maybe I modify code of Treamlous to be more like NS but you have too wait because I am only associate computer porgrammar.
Timbo is my dream programmar :oops:
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tremulous is nearly commercial quality
first thanks to id software for gpl'ing their great q3 engine
secondly thanks to timbo and his crew for the great mod and their efforts to make it stand alone
tremulous is not NS It has its own dynamics So stop comparing it to other games
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Timbo=God
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Here we go:
Yes, everybody. I'm obviously lacking the skill necessary to successfully penetrate a turtled base with 25 health. I'm absolutely SURE that'll change with practice.
Then WAIT UNTIL THE HUMANS COME OUT OF THEIR BASE!
And if they don't, you get an Evo point every (IIRC) 2.5 mins. 7.5 mins of perfecting your base, and BOOM! You are now a Goon!
I'm also sure most dragoons and marauders are perfectly willing to forgoe the use of their superior speed and agility and stand perfectly still while i make sure every single bullet in a magazine hits them. Things like players, you know, MOVING are actually a myth, as is latency.
I have seen someone pour a clip into a (Yes, moving, trying to dodge, actually) Dragoon while I was Speccing them. They were not using aimbot, because they missed several other times in the game.
So, in essence, i'm sorry it wasn't short enough to suit your evidently mono-syllabic parsing abilities.
You want to take the time i put into that and dribble "Durrrr, you don't like it because it's not NS" out of your slobbery mouth?
Now, this is just a flat-out flame.
Do you know me, jackass?
As was that.
"Blah blah blah, i'm such a pissant that any criticism other than the weakest and most superficial is considered an attack."
This is feedback, fuckwit.
More flaming. You really aren't impressing me with this.
This is an open-source game. If you don't like it, make your own. Or, better yet, stop trolling and flaming, and just leave and go back to your precious and perfect NS.
And, last I checked, "fuckwit", "fucking IDIOT", "pissant", and "jackass" were insults. Not exactly the proper way to speak to someone you're trying to bring to your point of view.
This is made worse by Tremulous' strange lag.
Hit the ~ key and type /rate 25000
There's no way to harass the marines into coming OUT of their base in Tremulous.
I've seen 'Goons in Stage 1 pounce into a base, destroy a turret and a spawn, then hightail it out of the base with about 50 health left. His Goon buddy then does the same. 3 or four of these, and the aliens are sigificanly closer to S2, and the Humie base has no Spawns and only about 2 turrets left.
You also complain that there are no commanders to drop ammo packs, but later go on to say that the worst thing in NS is the Commanders. I think you need to sort things out before making a post like that.
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I did find Tremulous a bit hard to grasp as a newbie. Now I am more able to appreciate various aspects of it I never could as a new player. Perhaps there is some way to help newer players learn what they need and get better more rapidly. I certainly know I could have used it.
Actually, I agree that voice chat could be good. But I think with the major division between decent/good players and bad onces, this would give a major advantage to the better players. So maybe it's something to think about way down the road.
Here are some things I wanted to point out to the OP:
* IRL, most SMGs have a max mag cap of 30 rounds.
* IRL, reload times are often much longer than those in Tremulous.
* If you come from a background requiring the ability to aim, you may find playing humans easier initially.
I can't imagine what Tremulous would be like if it were more like Ghost Recon or Rogue Spear. Though I think it would be interesting trying to snipe a tyrant with a PSG-1 8)
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Where to start .... the OPs post is so full of ignorance and contradictions it isnt even funny, and his second post pretty much removes any urge I might have had to reply in a constructive manner ....
The first thing I need to tell you, is that the game is indeed extremely well balanced, tjw showed us his charts for the different maps on his servers, and the wins were pretty much 50/50, so overall the game IS balanced, but unlike counter strike balance, where you have 2 teams with practically identical setups, you have 2 teams with vastly different abilities and dynamics, and still the overall balance is about 50/50, thats pretty impressive actually.
CS balance is a knifes edge, tremulous balance is a big rubber band, aliens rule S1, humans rule S2, aliens have the advantage in S3.
Then you make a long case about ammo clips being too small, and later on in your .... post .... you complain that lasgun ammo clip is too big, and that it encourages spamming, you will need to make your mind up on this point before I can comment on that.
Then you complain that human weapons are mostly useless, giving an example of 4 humans trying to take down a marauder, and saying that shotguns are "shit", and I can understand where you are comming from, seeing that you have only played for a week, but in the hands of a skilled player, all those human weapons are very deadly indeed, as pointed out earlier, 1 rifle clip to take out a marauder, 2-3 clips to take out a goon, so your example with the 4 humans is pretty useless, since they obviously didnt hit the marauder, how come you blame the weapons for that ??
It is equally obvious that you are inexperienced as an alien too, if anything the dretch is vastly overpowered, especially on S1 and S2.
Your comment "There's absoultely NO WAY to get the points to evolve into anything" (when entering game late as alien) only goes to show your frustration and inability to pilot the dretch, and I agree with you there, that the dretch is indeed a hard vehicle to pilot well, but your quoted statement is ridiculous, read any of the many dretch discussions on how to become a better dretch pilot, I personally join aliens on S3 all the time, and have no problems getting the points to evolve in a timely manner.
And then you make a sarcastic note about making wallwalking more disorienting, if you had taken the time to open the options screen ingame, you probably wouldnt have made a fool of yourself with that remark.
The highlight of your post however, was this one " The heavy weapons like the Lucifer are the stereotypical "Strong but worthless for CQB" weapons", Im not sure what to say, I really thought the lucifer cannons abilities was obvious even to the most dense of players, but I guess I was wrong ...... shoot the ground in front of you, and it will area damage everything within a fair range, while you yourself take minimal damage.
I do however agree with you on the voice chat issue, would be neat with some quick audio hotkeys, and also some more taunts.
All in all I will say, learn to wallclimb, learn to aim, and do try and open that options screen just once.
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dont feed the troll....
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This post is a hilarious combination of every ill-informed suggestion post we have on this forum.
Every single point is one we have heard countless times out of an inexperienced player who has yet to learn how the game works, and is annoyed because they keep on dying.
In essence, and whilst I hate the use of this phrase in other games, its never been more appropriate than here
LEARN TO PLAY.
Theres no point in me going through each bit of your post and explaining the inaccuracies in your analysis, but the one that made me laugh the most was
Every single game, i see Marauders going up against light armor marines and winning. And Marauders come out 2 minutes in.
Lets do the maths shall we, and see who deserves to win...
Light Armour costs 70 credits. Thats less than half a dretch kill.
Marauder costs 2 evo points - thats 2 human kills
Therefore, one marauder should defeat one human of equal skill level, as he has a significant tech advantage.
To scale it up to your other example - 4 marines vs one marauder. 4 times light armour = slightly less than 2 dretch kills.
1 marauder = 2 human kills
Therefore the fight is a fairly even balance tech wise. Mind you, the humans if they are any good have a massive advantage - 4 accurate rifles will cut a marauder down in no time.
The point I'm trying to get at is you just dont understand how the game works yet. Learn the mechanics and effective game tactics before making such an absurdly long post that makes you look like a moron. The game was hard for everyone when you first start out, since it is so dissimilar to any other game out there. The learning curve is steep, but once you scale it (and indeed while you are scaling it if you learn a few tricks immediately) the game is awesome. Here i'll give you the first tip for free - its all about headshots. As a marine, get a helmet as soon as you can, and as a dretch or any other alien actually AIM at the head. With that simple tip you will find yourself become far more effective very fast.....
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I have to agree with the OP on a few points ( only a few mind you ). Though it doesn't excuse the tone used to make that post. So, i'll just extract the useful parts of this post in the hope of salvaging a flamewar in progress.
- We could use something to make camping less attractive, be it human or alien camping. Both teams camp in the game, although the camping style is very different. Who hasn't played a game with 2-3 Tyrants/Dragoons waiting at each base exit, not attacking and just ramping up kills on the poor humans who try to get out ? No wonder humans resort to behind turret camping after that. So, which option do we have. Objectives ? Sure could help and it would give us some needed variety :) There are probably other ways to make camping less attractive though.
- "In Tremulous, [...] the effort needed to move anything is far greater than it's actually worth." I agree. I can't count the number of games lost because a few humans said :" But we HAVE to move !" when it wasn't really needed. Although I don't think it's the game rules who need to change in that case : humans would be far more effective when playing agressively with a correct base ( no need for an excelent base spot )
- "No perception of damage dealt" : I agree too, both ways. It's very frustrating most of the time in the game that you have very poor feedback on if you actually hit something or on how much damage you have sustained. I've died quite often as an alien because I shruged of what I though were minor damages when I had already lost half my life in a short time, or when I attacked not noticing my life was still very low. We need much better damage level feedback here and a way to evaluate your health level without looking at the screen corner ( too far away it is ! )
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I'd just say lock this as it is really not going anywhere apart from a flame fest between Trem guys and these new generation NS players.
Poiea, if you want someone to show you how to play the game then ask. There were so many better ways to phrase your first post that it was actually constructive, but your second points towards it not actually being intended as constructive.
I really don't get this new NS crowd who decide to go around and troll other alien vs human games or try to convince developers to make it into an exact NS clone as if it is the only way to actually get any results. One of the reasons why old NS players such as myself left.
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Hah, the part about the ''sucky dretch'' makes me laugh
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NOTE:
To actively test the dretch thing, i joined a stage 3 game yesterday.
Within 3 minutes, i was an adv. mar. because i killed some lone wolves and participated in mass dretch attacks (4 dretches attacking 3 unarmored humans with chaingun/pulse/rifle).
PRACTICE and you'll like the alien-side a LOT more.
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I've been playing the game for less than a week, and within about 5 minutes I had a goon. Think how easy it'll be in a month when I'm actually GOOD.
Likewise with humans, I get about 500 creds in the first 5 mins, assuming I'm not building.
Also, this is a COMPLETELY FREE GAME, if you're puzzled why there isn't voice chat, bots, a deep single-player, etc, that's because this is the first release of a game created in people's spare time. I'm not saying that means you have no right to comment on it, I'm saying that it's just plain stupid to expect a commercial-quality game from a free one.
You do have a point about the human-side camping, though. That's, in my opinion, due to over-powered alien units, and underpowered human defensive structures.
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It's also obvious that you have little to no experience/understanding of the processes involved in developing a computer game, especially when you have precisely zero budget available to you and therefore extremely limited testing resources.
Oh please. More pathetic ego-salvaging. Do you know me, jackass? Furthermore, how much experience do YOU have developing a game? See, sport, usually when some dipshit tries to play this card, they at least have the courtesy of having something mentionable under their belt.
Timbo did all the coding to turn quake into this game singlehandedly, fuckwit.
Have you released your own Multiplayer online FPS yet?
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Timbo did all the coding to turn quake into this game singlehandedly, fuckwit.
Have you released your own Multiplayer online FPS yet?
yeah fucking true.
u prolly dont even knwo how to print , im dumb on the screen . but i bet u can make it say poieo is a dumbass on the screen
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Well said, Thorn. You lend credit to anyone you defend.
Well, at least Timbo isn't the only one who's too fuckin' dumb to grasp the concept of contrast by way of comparison. It's good to have company, isn't it Timbo?
I'm not saying that means you have no right to comment on it, I'm saying that it's just plain stupid to expect a commercial-quality game from a free one.
Apparently, it DOES mean i have no right to comment on it. I did, and for my trouble i got nothing but barely-literate responses. Wow, i can avoid death by waiting until marines come out of their base, even though they have no real reason to? My options are to wait or die? That's such a magnificent choice. I wish i was as smart as the rest of this community so that i may see the value in a choice between boredom and futility. Because, i mean, lord knows a large appeal of any action game is in waiting for minutes at a time to do anything.
You know what the best part is? Besides you coming up with the bizarre idea that i expect commercial-quality shine on this mod, i mean? A bunch of mouth-breathing retards of such questionable intelligence that N and S put together causes an intellectual full stop. Never mind the pure irony that it's been years since i could say good things about NS, or that i left that community because i was sick of it being full of myopic, insular, egotistical staff fed by sycophantic "fans".
You will never understand what a great comedy it is that you ape Natural Selection's staff attitude of "Any suggestion that has something behind it can be passed off as being suggested by an inexperienced player. My mod is so special that it requires divine insight to comprehend". It's the comedy of arrogance grossly disproportionate to actual output. The fact that you don't even get how ridiculous it is that it's a first proper release, yet you're acting like it's so perfect and nuanced that it'd take years to decipher and understand it is pure fucking gold.
Good luck, dipshits. You'll need it.
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And you sir are arrogant to think you have the only right point, i mentioned experience as the main cause of your problems the same way I would have problems at first if I entered NS or gloom.
But ANY game can be spoiled by inexperienced players, people can spoil the extremely well balanced q3, they can spoil wolfenstein et, they can spoil any team game since a team game can't cater to a singular player. It needs a good team to work well. I suppose NS isn't won by one teammate getting nodes while the others stay back, trem is no different, people working as a team OWN anything but the best.
It just seems you have encountered some of the best while being supported by some of the worst. Don't discredit trem purely on the fact that certain players of it suck and didn't support you.
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#1... your a jerk
#2 if you just played the game a bit more and stopped trying to compare it you might enjoy yourself. Your not the all masterful critic.. stop for a second and get used to things and accept them the way they are before you start thinking of how they could be better.
This all just sounds to me like you didn't really spend too much time in the game, and got in some bad rounds.
There are a lot of people who love this game.. because they understand that these problems can be overcome by gaining skill, and adapting, instead of trying to change everything. Also you have to realize this game isn't $59.99 and its still an ongoing project. Things like voicechat etc may come along in the future, and a lot of teams do fine without it anyway.
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i left that community because i was sick of it being full of myopic, insular, egotistical staff fed by sycophantic "fans"
Sounds like you are in the exact same situation on this community board, maybe you will get the clue someday ??
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Poieo , go to ur local weapons dealer , buy a shotgun , aim for ur own fucking head , and fucking fire the bastard . get ur familiy to record and upload the splat on the forums
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Incidentally I just played a couple of rounds, and despite the humans camping excessively it was some of the most fun I've had playing the game. I managed to get the alien team well organised with a good builder and some decent players, and we pulled off some amazing raids on human hunting squads and their incredibly dense fortified base.
The fun of the game is what you make of it - if you set out with the attitude, oh no they are camping this is going to be boring you will indeed find it so. Try saying to yourself, ok their camping, lets get some tactics and organisation. I organised the team such that even the dretches had an important part to play, with killing areas the larger aliens could draw the humans into, and then have the dretches finish them off.
Now the sad thing about this was that I had to play a few rounds with these people first, before they would start listening to my tactics, as they simply wouldnt listen to a "nobody". Once it was established that I was a good player, people started listening, and the teamwork all fell into place leading to some awesome games. The humans werent with leadership either, and very nearly pulled off a move to the elevator room at the last moment, but a quick responce from my reserve adv marauder got there in time to critically damage the reactor before the rest of the alien team arrived.
As I say, the fun in this game is what you make of it - tell yourself its rubbish and unbalanced and thats how the play will seem to you. Actually put some effort in, and you will get a good reward out
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Is it just me , or this forum lacks moderators ?
MOD EDIT: It's just you. -- Dolby
Poieo , go to ur local weapons dealer , buy a shotgun , aim for ur own fucking head , and fucking fire the bastard . get ur familiy to record and upload the splat on the forums
Ahem.
The NS community may have had a rather closed caste of admins , but at least those kept the forum decent.
And as the above post says , teamwork can make Tremulous games very nice. But there are no real incentives for it , nor intuitive ways to learn it.
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Is it just me , or this forum lacks moderators ?
The NS community may have had a rather closed caste of admins , but at least those kept the forum decent.
And as the above post says , teamwork can make Tremulous games very nice. But there are no real incentives for it , nor intuitive ways to learn it.
Whats not decent about the forums?
Incentive = win
Intuitiveness = builders build, defenders defend, attackers attack...
I like the fact that people can control how they play as opposed to being teathered to the way the creaters or someone else might WANT them to play.
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I know this might be a bit offtopic, but why is it whenever you argue with a troll the first real comeback is always about the language in the posts against them? Even if it is perfectly normal english.
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Trolls don't make sense - but they may have some rhetoric skills. If you take the time to read his posts , you can hardly take offense of his flaming nonsense.
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How the fuck did I miss this thread? Oh, wait. Nevermind. Poieo, please spend your spare time playing CS, er, NS. I''m pretty sure everybody would be happier that way.
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How the fuck did I miss this thread? Oh, wait. Nevermind. Poieo, please spend your spare time playing CS, er, NS. I''m pretty sure everybody would be happier that way.
I really dont wanna say this but
I AGREE WITH LAVA CROFT ON THIS POINT!
ok now i've calmed down a little
If this game was a complete mess
why would people play trem? Tremulous
is actually one of the best games i have ever seen.
Oh and btw what movie did u take this off of? "Do u know me jackass"
HAHAHAHAHAHA THATS FUNNY!!!!!
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Generally speaking, you often get better responses if you post a little bit more politely, as you come off as rather insulting.
Really, it sounds like you might be better informed if you played the game for another week or two. The balance isn't perfect, and games vary dramatically depending on the composition of the teams, but really, the balance is fairly good, considering.
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i like rush rush rush, camp camp camp
it makes for interesting gameplay
this isnt quake u know
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Trolls don't make sense - but they may have some rhetoric skills. If you take the time to read his posts , you can hardly take offense of his flaming nonsense.
I read all of his posts all the way through, and still took offence at the fact that he called the Admin of the forum those things!
Not many Admins would take that. I know a few that would KOS(Kill On Sight) anyone who insulted them like that. Timbo must have a very cool head.
Anyway, it has become quite obvious that you are a troll and a flamer, not worthy of my time. Do I give a damn about what you think of my 2nd favorite game? See below:
(http://img87.exs.cx/img87/2224/11087651398853cu.gif)
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Comic Book Guy: Last night's Itchy & Scratchy was, without a doubt, the worst episode ever. Rest assured I was on the internet within minutes registering my disgust throughout the world.
Bart: Hey, I know it wasn't great, but what right do you have to complain?
Comic Book Guy: As a loyal viewer, I feel they owe me.
Bart: What? They're giving you thousands of hours of entertainment for free. What could they possibly owe you? I mean, if anything, you owe them.
Comic Book Guy: Worst. Episode. Ever.
'Nuff said.
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Comic Book Guy: Last night's Itchy & Scratchy was, without a doubt, the worst episode ever. Rest assured I was on the internet within minutes registering my disgust throughout the world.
Bart: Hey, I know it wasn't great, but what right do you have to complain?
Comic Book Guy: As a loyal viewer, I feel they owe me.
Bart: What? They're giving you thousands of hours of entertainment for free. What could they possibly owe you? I mean, if anything, you owe them.
Comic Book Guy: Worst. Episode. Ever.
'Nuff said.
... yes... feel free to get your money back if you didn't enjoy the game.
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Actually, right now, you're leeching money because the Dev's could've put this game in retail.
(There have been games 50x worse in retail, ex: Titan Quest, which is near unplayable because of bugs, ... )
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Actually, right now, you're leeching money because the Dev's could've put this game in retail.
(There have been games 50x worse in retail, ex: Titan Quest, which is near unplayable because of bugs, ... )
Well, Titan Quest works flawlesly here thank you. And it is quite an enjoyable game too !
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It does?
My local game-community put up a forum for it and there are 28 topics in it, 24 concerning crashes, bugs and loss of player-profiles :s
(Is it really that good?)
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It does?
My local game-community put up a forum for it and there are 28 topics in it, 24 concerning crashes, bugs and loss of player-profiles :s
(Is it really that good?)
Yes it works although I have to agree that it works much better without any kind of NoDVD ( too bad )
And I found it fun, it is by no means a Diablo 2 but that last one always bored me to death once I had killed Diablo ( Baal ) once. Titan Quest I had no difficulties finding the 60 hours it takes to finish the game in Legendary :)
Also, it explains a lot why I played very few tremulous games for the last week ;)
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Damn, we thought we had just got lucky :(
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this isnt quake u know
Oh, it isn't?
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OH MY GOD TREM IS SO WRONG BECAUSE I DIE A LOT! AS AN EXPERIENCED NS PLAYER I REQUEST.. NAY, I DEMAND! THAT THE GAME BE ALTERED IN WAYS THAT MAKE IT EASIER FOR ME
If this is the attitude the trem devs have Im not so sure I will be playing much longer,
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If this is the attitude the trem devs have Im not so sure I will be playing much longer,
Don't let the door hit you on the way out back to CS, er, NS
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OH MY GOD TREM IS SO WRONG BECAUSE I DIE A LOT! AS AN EXPERIENCED NS PLAYER I REQUEST.. NAY, I DEMAND! THAT THE GAME BE ALTERED IN WAYS THAT MAKE IT EASIER FOR ME
If this is the attitude the trem devs have Im not so sure I will be playing much longer,
bye bye *fake tears of loss*
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To poieo:
Making a subject stating the game is a complete mess and then sounding like an asshole in your commentary is not going to make the devs listen to you, hence the large all caps reply from the dev. You had some legitimate problems, many which are addressed in other forum articles. But it looks like to everyone you played half a dozen games, couldn't succeed using methods from other games, got frustrated and went right to the forums without reading anyone else's feedback. In case you haven't noticed, the game is still a work in progress.
To those threatning to leave because the dev replied in said manner, did you even read poieo's email?
My personal favorite line from poieo is "I am the epitome of ballsy playing." which basically just made me laugh and not take you seriously in the least.
In short, hey poieo: Fuck off and go back to NS.
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OH MY GOD TREM IS SO WRONG BECAUSE I DIE A LOT! AS AN EXPERIENCED NS PLAYER I REQUEST.. NAY, I DEMAND! THAT THE GAME BE ALTERED IN WAYS THAT MAKE IT EASIER FOR ME
If this is the attitude the trem devs have Im not so sure I will be playing much longer,
Honestly, Rekov, I've seen the complaints of the OP levelled at Trem many times in just the last couple months. The consensus among the regulars (the core of the community) is that basically he needs to spend more time with the game, because those are really features, not bugs.
You'll have to excuse the Unix guy here, but I'm with that crowd. Some things need to be learned to be enjoyed, and they're worth it. If you mow down the learning curve, you deny access to what was at the top. Some things can't be dumbed down.
There are a ton of suggestions made in this forum, and everyone here is working on a volunteer basis. This isn't a software company. They aren't going to make every change you request (hell, they wouldn't even if they were a software company). But, the situation is better than if it was a software company. You have all of the game source+art and access to all of the tools you could need to modify and improve it. There's also a perfect feature for trying out new gameplay rules, they're called 'mods'.
As it is, the game play is in a stable state. It's well balanced and people like it the way it is right now. I think we, as a community can accept change, but you've got to show us the code first.
But really, the OP was fucking rude. That was not polite criticism. And poieo, I got the fact that you didn't want Trem to be exactly like NS, that you weren't part of that crowd--rather that you were just using it to compare and contrast. But that doesn't change the fact that you're a complete asshole, and that you made that fact abundantly clear in your first post.
Never mind the pure irony that it's been years since i could say good things about NS, or that i left that community because i was sick of it being full of myopic, insular, egotistical staff fed by sycophantic "fans".
Hmm, sounds like you belong there. I'm with everyone else, go back to your NS.
To sum it up, this stuff comes up over and over again from people who haven't played long enough to properly criticize the game. But this guy was dick about it, so we blew up at him, because he was being an asshole about the dev's baby. I don't blame the devs. I think the attitude of the devs that you should be looking at is they put a lot of care and thought in to balancing the game just right and keeping their artistic integrity. Beyond that, they had the good will to open the game up completely and release it under a FOSS and CC license, so that everyone can help and join in.
Fuck poieo. He needs to grow up. Rekov, leave if you want to. I think you've misjudged what Who was saying.
Jeff
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Is it just me , or this forum lacks moderators ?
It's not that there are no moderators, it's that my attitude is that most forums are over-moderated. Not agreeing with someone are not good grounds for forcibly stopping the discussion. Likewise, insults aren't good grounds for moderation -- they're only words. You can insult me or anyone else you like here, I don't care (however you shouldn't always expect me to take you seriously if you do).
If somebody is making an ass of themself, by NOT locking the topic you're not giving them the excuse that you've silenced them prematurely. Utimately, the posts you make speak for themselves and anybody can make up their own mind based on the full evidence available to them, not some over-zealous moderator.
The only topics I would actively lock here are those containing illegal material (by any sensible set of laws), discussion of game cheats/exploits and obvious spam (by bot or otherwise). In the history of this forum, only one person has ever been banned, and then only temporarily.
OH MY GOD TREM IS SO WRONG BECAUSE I DIE A LOT! AS AN EXPERIENCED NS PLAYER I REQUEST.. NAY, I DEMAND! THAT THE GAME BE ALTERED IN WAYS THAT MAKE IT EASIER FOR ME
If this is the attitude the trem devs have Im not so sure I will be playing much longer,
In the same way I'm (mostly) not going to restrict what people say on the forum, that extends to include the developers of Tremulous. You need to realise we're not a corporate entity, and are all individuals entitled to their own opinion. As such we have no "group attitude", "corporate outlook" or "marketing strategy". We're really just a bunch of guys who did this for a bit of fun (not that it's always been fun :roll:).
As far as the topic in hand goes, I'm not really prepared to have a serious discussion with anyone who struggles to construct a sentence that doesn't contain some form of unnecessary insult, especially when according to the stats, their opinions are based on less than 5 hours of gameplay.
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However this thread is kinda pointless now, its all just late comers beating on someone who has already left.
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Now might be a good time to say, Thanks Devs! I love Tremulous! Yes, a few issues/bugs could be worked out, but it would be quite sad if gameplay was drastically changed. The current set up is quite fun, and unlike other games I've played.
Lovin it,
Goo
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It's not that there are no moderators, it's that my attitude is that most forums are over-moderated. Not agreeing with someone are not good grounds for forcibly stopping the discussion. Likewise, insults aren't good grounds for moderation -- they're only words. You can insult me or anyone else you like here, I don't care (however you shouldn't always expect me to take you seriously if you do).
If somebody is making an ass of themself, by NOT locking the topic you're not giving them the excuse that you've silenced them prematurely. Utimately, the posts you make speak for themselves and anybody can make up their own mind based on the full evidence available to them, not some over-zealous moderator.
The only topics I would actively lock here are those containing illegal material (by any sensible set of laws), discussion of game cheats/exploits and obvious spam (by bot or otherwise). In the history of this forum, only one person has ever been banned, and then only temporarily.
Hmmm. It is up to the admins to choose how to deal with people insulting them , either implicit disdain or active silencing ; the issue is with the community at large. Everyone else has no such choice , and there seems to be no ignore feature on this forum. Flaming threads ought to be locked not for being oh so shocking , but because they can keep growing with more and more graphical insults as morons are attracted to them. It is not pleasant to read such flames grafting themselves on normal threads as squabbles expand. The general consensus is that locked flame threads are better off dead , and people seeking to revive them are total noobs.
Of course it is impossible to remove evidence of the slightest personal attack in large communities (the NS forums were a good example of this - veiled hatreds between members or castes could be felt , even when sarcasm was ban worthy) but it is important for moderators to intervene in time and say "it's over , kids"
Excess freedom is not harmless. When people act like sheeps , you ought to herd them the right way.
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I would like to state that Who is a fucking bastard,
but that I am actually quite happy with the fact that his replies sort out the people that this community does not need, and guides them on their way out. To CS, er, NS.
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See what I mean ? :P
And what's with the insulting comparison between CS and NS ? We NSers always tell moronic whining noobs to go back to CS , what do you think :P
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OH MY GOD TREM IS SO WRONG BECAUSE I DIE A LOT! AS AN EXPERIENCED NS PLAYER I REQUEST.. NAY, I DEMAND! THAT THE GAME BE ALTERED IN WAYS THAT MAKE IT EASIER FOR ME
If this is the attitude the trem devs have Im not so sure I will be playing much longer,
Honestly, Rekov, I've seen the complaints of the OP levelled at Trem many times in just the last couple months. The consensus among the regulars (the core of the community) is that basically he needs to spend more time with the game, because those are really features, not bugs.
You'll have to excuse the Unix guy here, but I'm with that crowd. Some things need to be learned to be enjoyed, and they're worth it. If you mow down the learning curve, you deny access to what was at the top. Some things can't be dumbed down.
There are a ton of suggestions made in this forum, and everyone here is working on a volunteer basis. This isn't a software company. They aren't going to make every change you request (hell, they wouldn't even if they were a software company). But, the situation is better than if it was a software company. You have all of the game source+art and access to all of the tools you could need to modify and improve it. There's also a perfect feature for trying out new gameplay rules, they're called 'mods'.
As it is, the game play is in a stable state. It's well balanced and people like it the way it is right now. I think we, as a community can accept change, but you've got to show us the code first.
But really, the OP was fucking rude. That was not polite criticism. And poieo, I got the fact that you didn't want Trem to be exactly like NS, that you weren't part of that crowd--rather that you were just using it to compare and contrast. But that doesn't change the fact that you're a complete asshole, and that you made that fact abundantly clear in your first post.
Well Ill admit that alot of what he complained about is not viable, but my concern was with the blatant arrogence the dev team seems to be showing. Insteat of addressing the concers, the dev ridiculed him in what seems to me to be a very primative defence mechanism.
The one point that makes sense to me is this:
People (lava croft) constantly whine that humans camp. Lets face the fact: The way the game is currently set up, that will never end, because humans are base dependant. They need their base for defense (cause a goon is one it kill in phase one), ammo, and health, and upgrades. The ammo in the rifle really is short, and the chaingun especially. They cant leave teh base, because they need it to survive.
Also, the human base cant repair itself, which means there constantly has to be a builder there doing that, which means there constantly has to be protection for the builder there... The list goes on. The human base is dependent on presence there as much as humans are dependant on the base.
Aliens on the other hand can evolve in the field, heal in the field, and they never run out of ammo. Their base regenerates, so that once the defenses have removed the threat, it returns to full condition. It doesnt need the aliens to survive, and the aliens dont need it.
I am annoyed that people complain about no camping, and immediatly make a fuss when someone points out what keeps humans camping.
I have no desire to have a commanders chair or to have to get resource nodes or whatever the else bullshit, but the point i am making, is if you dont want humans to camp, dont make them.
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OH MY GOD TREM IS SO WRONG BECAUSE I DIE A LOT! AS AN EXPERIENCED NS PLAYER I REQUEST.. NAY, I DEMAND! THAT THE GAME BE ALTERED IN WAYS THAT MAKE IT EASIER FOR ME
If this is the attitude the trem devs have Im not so sure I will be playing much longer,
Honestly, Rekov, I've seen the complaints of the OP levelled at Trem many times in just the last couple months. The consensus among the regulars (the core of the community) is that basically he needs to spend more time with the game, because those are really features, not bugs.
You'll have to excuse the Unix guy here, but I'm with that crowd. Some things need to be learned to be enjoyed, and they're worth it. If you mow down the learning curve, you deny access to what was at the top. Some things can't be dumbed down.
There are a ton of suggestions made in this forum, and everyone here is working on a volunteer basis. This isn't a software company. They aren't going to make every change you request (hell, they wouldn't even if they were a software company). But, the situation is better than if it was a software company. You have all of the game source+art and access to all of the tools you could need to modify and improve it. There's also a perfect feature for trying out new gameplay rules, they're called 'mods'.
As it is, the game play is in a stable state. It's well balanced and people like it the way it is right now. I think we, as a community can accept change, but you've got to show us the code first.
But really, the OP was fucking rude. That was not polite criticism. And poieo, I got the fact that you didn't want Trem to be exactly like NS, that you weren't part of that crowd--rather that you were just using it to compare and contrast. But that doesn't change the fact that you're a complete asshole, and that you made that fact abundantly clear in your first post.
Well Ill admit that alot of what he complained about is not viable, but my concern was with the blatant arrogence the dev team seems to be showing. Insteat of addressing the concers, the dev ridiculed him in what seems to me to be a very primative defence mechanism.
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If we're so arrogant why aren't we posting how great we are everyday? Or charging for this mod? Or telling everyone who provides feedback how stupid they are and how right we are?
The point is, this guy came in and flamed the game. He doesn't say 'The shotgun feels underpowered, here's my idea of what would work' he says 'the shotgun feels like shit'. END. FIN. No more information about how the shotgun could be improved. He does this about 8 times, then further insults the development team when we call him out on his poor attitude.
He has some valid points, but he dresses it up in a flaming piece of shit post. We've got tons of the community providing valuable feedback without insulting the game at the same time, but somehow he's entitled for us to treat him well while he insults our work? Tell me, how does that scenario make sense?
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I agree his method was bad. Who's post just seemed so unprofessional. Like a kid having a tantrum. It remined my of Julio Torres and Kurt Stangl. Not a pretty though.
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I agree his method was bad. Who's post just seemed so unprofessional. Like a kid having a tantrum. It remined my of Julio Torres and Kurt Stangl. Not a pretty though.
...but it was a very accurate analysis of poieo's first post though.
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You people just do not understand Who. For how many years do you think the TremDev team has been harassed by people like poeio, accusign them of 'stealing' or 'copying' NS. Hell, even the password for the Beta download was OMGNSCOPY. Who's reply perfectly suited the post poeio made, and hopefully it will make more people like poeio go back to NS, er, CS.
[EDIT] I'm so sorry for the constant mix-up, I just have trouble keeping CS and NS apart, since both games sport such retarded..., ah fuck it, I'm not here to flame CS, er, NS.
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hhhmmmm actually i thought that Pulse Rifle is the badest Weapon inGame cause you dont hit anyone. Then i saw a guy 100% wihtout Aimbot, and he just fucking onwed himself through with it. The same with lucifer. I for myself prefer lasgun cause it has no "Self-Flying-Entities". Aiming with Pulse or Lucifer is "harder" but surely not impossible. And I think also the biggest noob on earth could hit a tyrant with that kind of weapon ;).
You Sir, are just pathetic! Playing a Game for some days and then just newb up and post in the Official Board: Meeehhhhh me not hit, game is bad !
I also have some fuck ups with NS first time i played it, but i wasn't THIS annoying. And not the game should change, you have to change, because with this character, no Community of any OpenSource Game would actually accept you. I can also imagine that you suck @ NS.
Also you have no right to act rude like this because you haven't spent one damn dollar. If you want to post Feedback then express yourself normaly and not like an teenage wannabe ape which is sooooooooooo disappointed of the game. I have so much sympathy for you.
Now that i have said what i wanted to say, please Lock this Thread ;)
WAARRRR IHV TO PLAY CS NOW TO LET MY CRUCIAL ANGER GO AWAY:!!! COZ THERE U HAVE RLL WPNS WITH RL "BOOM" AND IT IS MORE BLNCD!!!!1111oneoneoneone
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I have to agree with the OP on a few points ( only a few mind you ). Though it doesn't excuse the tone used to make that post. So, i'll just extract the useful parts of this post in the hope of salvaging a flamewar in progress.
- We could use something to make camping less attractive, be it human or alien camping. Both teams camp in the game, although the camping style is very different. Who hasn't played a game with 2-3 Tyrants/Dragoons waiting at each base exit, not attacking and just ramping up kills on the poor humans who try to get out ? No wonder humans resort to behind turret camping after that. So, which option do we have. Objectives ? Sure could help and it would give us some needed variety :) There are probably other ways to make camping less attractive though.
- "In Tremulous, [...] the effort needed to move anything is far greater than it's actually worth." I agree. I can't count the number of games lost because a few humans said :" But we HAVE to move !" when it wasn't really needed. Although I don't think it's the game rules who need to change in that case : humans would be far more effective when playing agressively with a correct base ( no need for an excelent base spot )
- "No perception of damage dealt" : I agree too, both ways. It's very frustrating most of the time in the game that you have very poor feedback on if you actually hit something or on how much damage you have sustained. I've died quite often as an alien because I shruged of what I though were minor damages when I had already lost half my life in a short time, or when I attacked not noticing my life was still very low. We need much better damage level feedback here and a way to evaluate your health level without looking at the screen corner ( too far away it is ! )
I have many agreements here.
1. Making Camping Less attractive - currently the only motivation I know of is early in the game to relocate the base to a strategically more powerful position. The window of opportunity for that is small, has caused many short games, and then leads to more camping. What I'm saying is, the only motivations I see for players and teams is to build a better base, and to just show off your killer skills by venturing out.
I have had an idea that I've seen on many other FPSs, and that is end-of-match "medals" for things like: Best structure killer, tyrant slayer, battlesuit ravager, best dretch, ... most credit damage inflicted, most evo point damage inflicted... traitor (decon/TK), cannon fodder (deaths) anything really. Gives you something to look at while the next map loads at least. It also gives more players a chance to feel good about themselves for the valuable contributions they made even if they didn't make the top-3 in kills and maybe give some props to the under-praised builders.
2. Moving is too much trouble - I had an idea for new structures that were mobile, like turrets on rollers (suction cups?, whatever) that could constructed safely then "pushed" into a position by a builder. Not just turrets, but structures in general that could be relocated without being deconstructed. (To be fair, turrets problably shouldn't fire when being moved.)
Conversely, aliens could "pick up" their traps and re-attach them somewhere. Like when noobs put trappers on the ground. Or a booster is placed where it is totally inaccessible to larger aliens who need it. The general idea is to speed up building on both sides and avoiding the waste of removing a structure that you really just wanted to move. Then again, aliens don't really suffer by having to decon/recon because their build timer is so fast.
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I just played as a human and i really had to FORCE the humans to move out and not let the aliens recuperate.
They actually sat on top of the turrets with their chainguns and shot at everything that moved. (Including me and 2 others that went hunting)
Now i just threat with deconning unless they stop camping.
If we all do this, the habit of camping will be over soon i think. (I hope at least :D )
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Lower your maxclients to a more reasonable amount, and Shazaaaaam!, the camping Humans aren't that much of a problem no more.
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yeah, i find with a maxclient of 1 humans don't camp.