Tremulous Forum
General => Feedback => Topic started by: zoebiflap on February 25, 2010, 02:19:25 pm
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have noticed that the sentries :turret: are nearly useless when the aliens are attacking.
They are slow to turn, slow to aim, and have crappy range.
It more then once happened that a single builder-alien :granger: took out one of my sentries because it was outside the sentry's range and kept spitting at it.
Also those damn electric bugs :advmarauder: and the large things :dragoon: jump the sentry, attack it, get behind it, attack it again and destroy it.
All the while the sentry is busy turning around.
Summary: Sentries are slow and have crappy range.
Possible solutions: Speed it up so it can target faster, increase it's range so it can fire earlier, armor it so it can fire longer, or slow the aliens down. Speed/weight ratio is ridiculous for nearly all aliens except :dretch: & :granger:
Also, concerning strategic placement of sentries:
Maybe have sentries return to the direction they were built in after X seconds of inactivity?
That way they can literally keep an eye on stuff.
With a moderate increase in range this also decreases turning time when there's a target in front of it.
Of course all of this is my perception if the game
Crit?
PS. Yes, I have crappy aiming skills so, I prefer to be a human engineer.
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You need to spend more time building.
1. Turrets are hella powerful despite the slow spin-up, however you still need to place them in such a way so at to be able to cover one another AND still be a certain distance apart so they do not get zapped too easily by :advmarauder:.
2. If the :granger: thing is spitting on them you could try ..... shooting it? You can't just build and expect the turrets to ward off hordes of enemies while you sit in base and admire the armory. The same goes with :dragoon:, you have to take it out before it takes you and your defenses out.
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The range is more than it was in 1.1, maybe even double?
Build the turrets so they cover each other, so while the alien eats one a few others will be shooting it.
If grangers are shooting it then you built it too far from the corner.
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Build the turrets so they cover each other, so while the alien eats one a few others will be shooting it.
This is so true, once you have this down (as many 1.2 humans have by now) your base becomes impenetrable. It also helps to have just one human sitting on a ret hosing aliens that are outside (this is also known in certain circles as a republican).
@zoebiflap +1 for the lucid idea. Most people can't think in straight sentences when they post problems around here. It is possible for a lone granger to take out an unguarded sentry with it's melee attack, like the starter hall sentry on atcs. All by itself.
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(this is also known in certain circles as a republican).
:D
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you still need to place them in such a way so at to be able to cover one another AND still be a certain distance apart so they do not get zapped too easily by :advmarauder:.
I find that up against walls is good because then they can't be circle-strafed (likewise, if you want to muck up an alien slashing your turret, stand next to the turret).
Maybe have sentries return to the direction they were built in after X seconds of inactivity?
That way they can literally keep an eye on stuff.
Since you can't always build a turret aiming in the ideal direction, and because the ideal direction might change later, this would only be acceptable if it were also possible to manual aim turrets, which I think is unnecessary given how fast they aim now. If you want something that doesn't have to aim, make a tesla.
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This game features neither sentries nor an engineer. This is the game you seek:
http://tf2.com/
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Your observational powers doesn't seem so amazing after all :(
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@Demolution
Perhaps, i'm still new at this. But have you tried shooting aliens with a blaster? You can actually SEE the shot move forward, that means that (as an alien) you have about a full second to think about whether to strafe left or right to dodge.
And have you seen the movie Jumper? :dragoon:s are like that. If you blink, they're in the other end of the room. IMHO WAAAY to fast for their size.
@Conzul
TY for positive criticism.
BTW, what is +1? ???
@Bissig
If i wanted to play TF2 i wouldn't have come here now, would i?
People who design and build stuff are ENGINEERS.
"Turrets" are mounted on stuff, like APC's, Hummers, Tanks, etc.
http://www.thefreedictionary.com/sentry (http://www.thefreedictionary.com/sentry)
http://www.thefreedictionary.com/machinegun_turret (http://www.thefreedictionary.com/machinegun_turret)
They're sentries in any definition.
Also, "sentry" is faster to type then "machinegun turret" when a tyrant is faceroping your teammates. (typo for censorship ;))
*Cough*I'm right, you're wrong*Cough*
Edit (10 secs after posting):
@Cadynum:
They're still amazing, just not accurate.
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The game calls it a turret so it must be called turret, the name isn't based on definitions. No one designs stuff in Tremulous, they only build and shoot so the people who build are builders.
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+1 means "what he said", or "I agree".
Since you are "new at this", then you probably shouldn't come in and tell the players and developers who have been here for years that they're wrong. I am an engineer in real life; I design stuff that other people build. In tremulous no players design weapons or buildables, so even based on dictionary definitions you are mistaken.
If you don't want to type Machine Gun Turrets, then the accepted shorthand is "rets". If you want to refer to mechanical objects as sentries, then go do it where you will be understood, i.e. somewhere else.
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Fine, I'll go play somewhere i can voice my opinion on things
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Playing trem, and voicing opinions on the trem forum, are fine. Expressing cogent ideas in a persuasive manner is even better. Using a foreign, to the community, language makes things a bit more difficult to understand, but is not an issue per se.
Telling the community that it is using the wrong language and that it should change is the problem.
Many Europeans are multi-lingual, and it is often possible to communicate with someone using more than one language. But if one is in France, telling the French that they should speak English is likely to result in no communication at all.
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Fine, I'll go play somewhere i can voice my opinion on things
Fine. If you can't accept or adjust to the definitions and terms used in this game and by its community you can either:
1. shut up
2. go away
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Geez guys, lighten up.
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ya ur 1 2 takl
kidin ur coo bro
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Geez guys, lighten up.
Woops too late. I think he's gone.
.....I saw this happen in other multiplayer games like Freelancer. After a while, they dwindle down to nothing...
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And we wonder why the tremulous player-base is so small.
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And if you want to talk about terminology: stop calling them "evos", they are and always have been called "frags (http://tremulous.net/manual/)".
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Evos are waaaaay cooler than Frags.
Frags = Generic Kill term used in like everything(Either that or kills)
Evos = Awesome Trem Term.
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I have an idea to :turret:
add more range, some inaccuracy and slow bullets(bullet speed = like a lcannon's secundary fire)
-its more for fun factor ;D
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And if you want to talk about terminology: stop calling them "evos", they are and always have been called "frags (http://tremulous.net/manual/)".
The masses write the dictionaries.
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Really? I always thought they were written by an elite few.
And anyway, this isn't a dictionary word, it's a name. If everyone started calling Bilbo something else would you really go argue with Tolkien that he was wrong?
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And we wonder why the tremulous player-base is so small.
Because some beginners erroneous suggestion/observation wasn't taken into consideration?
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Really? I always thought they were written by an elite few.
And anyway, this isn't a dictionary word, it's a name. If everyone started calling Bilbo something else would you really go argue with Tolkien that he was wrong?
They are created by the elite few, but if words are used frequently enough, and are popular enough, they are added.(See: McJob)
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Many Europeans are multi-lingual, and it is often possible to communicate with someone using more than one language. But if one is in France, telling the French that they should speak English is likely to result in no communication at all.
OH WAIT!
That's not true.
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A better metaphor would be "telling the French they're speaking French wrong"
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I think its worth arguing that the official name be changed. The name "evos" is a direct description of what they are. The name "frags" doesn't quite fit with the traditional definition of the term, which is why players who didn't read the manual didn't use that term naturally from experience with other FPS games.
To clarify:
"evos" is a short form of "evolves", or in context "evolve points" or "things used to evolve". It also evokes the notion of a currency, like pesos or creds. This is a fairly accurate description of what they are. You spend the points/currency/evolves and do exactly what it says on the tin, evolve. Not to mention that, as already noted it sounds cool.
Frags in video games usually is synonymous with the term "kill", although most games adjust the frag count for suicides or teamkills (although that completely ignores the etymology of the term (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fragging)). In tremulous this is not really what happens. A single frag of a human can award multiple frags, which doesn't make any fragging sense at least according to prior uses of the term "frag". Furthermore the 1.1 scoring system, called "kills" seems to me to be exactly what "frags" means in other games, resulting in an ugly personal dictionary of tremulous:
kills: Self-explanatory. In many other games, frags.
frags: Points used to evolve. Not to be confused with kills.
And anyway, this isn't a dictionary word, it's a name. If everyone started calling Bilbo something else would you really go argue with Tolkien that he was wrong?
Absolutely not, however, I might still call Bilbo something else, if only so that the I would be understood. It should also be noted that "frags" is not a character name, its a device name. The proper name of the "portal gun" is the ASHPD (Aperture Science Hand-held Portal Device) but few people call it that, instead they call it by a name that is understandable and "just makes sense" (although admittedly, that name was suggested by the game itself).
This is by no means an important change to me at this point. It isn't at all a burden for me to call them "frags", but I suspect that most of the players right now wouldn't understand what I would be saying.
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The word "ain't" was not in the dictionary several years ago. Now, it is. The 'elite few' to whom you refer do not use "ain't". Therefore, heavy usage has allowed the word to become part of the language canon.
Concerning Tremulous, if you are arguing about calling it an "evo" vs. a "frag", you must have very little else to do. Then again, my writing this out says the same thing about me (...shit).
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Keep this up, we'll get more people to go play somewhere else ;D