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Community => Strategies and Tactics => Topic started by: Venkman on June 28, 2010, 06:08:51 am

Title: Mara Guide
Post by: Venkman on June 28, 2010, 06:08:51 am
My Friend, Mara:
A Guide to the Aliens' Marauder Class...

(Main Source - 1.1 | Full GPP update coming soon!)

Mara Stats:

Regular-Ass Marauder
[1.1]
speed: 1.2
health: 150
Regen: 4
Reward: 350
Cost: 2 evos

Claw
claw damage feet: N-20 / A-6 / B-4
claw damage torso: N-40 / A-12 / B-8
claw damage head: N-80 / A-24 / B-16
claw repeat: 500ms
claw range: 96


[1.2]
Speed: 1.2
Health: 150
Regen: 0.03
Reward: 420
Cost: 2 evos

Claw
Claw damage: 40
Claw range: 80
Claw width: 14
Claw repeat: 500
DPS: 80

Advanced Marauder
[1.1]
Speed: 1.2
Health: 175
Regen: 5
Reward: 450
Cost: 3 evos

Claw
claw damage to feet:
N-20 / A-6 / B-4
claw damage to torso:
N-40 / A-12 / B-8
claw damage to head:
N-80 / A-24 / B-16

claw repeat: 400ms
claw range: 96

Zap
zap damage: N-80 / A-20 / B-20
zap chain damage:
60 / 20 over 2 naked targets
41 / 26 / 13 over 3 Naked targets
zap lasts: 1000ms
zap repeat: 1500ms

[1.2]
Speed: 1.2
Health: 175
Regen: 0.03
Reward: 540


Cost: 3 evos

Claw
claw damage: 40
claw range: 82
claw width: 14
claw repeat: 400
DPS: 100

Zap
zap damage: 60
zap range: 200
zap width: 15
zap repeat: 1500
zap time: 1000 (?)
zap max targets: 5
DPS: 40

Max Speed of Marauder Wall-jump: 1000

Thanks to Para|Medic and Kharnov for typing all that out. Here's a link to Para's Tremulous Guide  http://tremulous.net/forum/index.php?topic=11163.msg167202#msg167202]http://tremulous.net/forum/index.php?topic=11163.msg167202#msg167202 (http://), definitely essential reading if you want to pwn with ANY Alien and Kharn's oh-so-handy 1.2 Weapon/Class info-guide: http://tremulous.net/forum/index.php?topic=14355.0 Lot's of important numbers in there that you might want to memorize.

Now, on to...

THE BASICS:

So you wanna learn how to dominate with the Marauder? Well here are some essential instructions for you to drill into your head...

*Never stop moving*

Mara stops, Mara dies.

*Learn dynamics of Wall-Bounce*

Knowing how to create momentum with your wall-bounce (holding jump when in contact with a wall) will make the difference between a retreating Mara and a dead Mara.

*PRACTICE YOUR WALL-BOUNCE*

Over and over. The angle of where your looking effects the angle of each bounce.
Example: If you’re looking straight down/up while jumping forward, your bounce will have a more vertical arc.

*Quick getaways are a NECCESSITY*

For any Alien (with the exception of Adv. Goon) to attack, they need get close to their target. So, unless you want to die for every kill you score, you need to know how to properly retreat. With Mara, this requires a ballet of wall-bouncing that is often quite difficult to pull off. So, yeah, learn that shit.

*1.1 Mara is NOT a Kill-Whore*

You want a high kill count, go learn how to Goon. Better yet, just go Rant and camp A.T.C.S. hallway until you can steal enough naked-human kills to reach triple-digits.

But if you want to go Mara, you’re going to have to give up the dream of being a Frag-King...

(EDIT[August 7th, 2010]:
So when I wrote that last bit, I hadn't played much 1.2 Mara and had relied mainly on other people's impute when it came to the subject. Now, having clocked enough hours on 1.2 that I couldn't even imagine going back to 1.1, I feel compelled to correct certain portions of my Mara guide. Starting with this...

*A Good 1.2 Mara CAN Pown Harder Than Any Dragoon*

Props to Conzul who tried to explain this to me before I had ever bothered to find out for myself and a big sloppy wet thank you to the Devs for fine tuning my favorite class. Despite what you might have read on the forum, 1.2 Aliens are AWESOME and the new Adv. Mara is a Flying Lawnmower of Death to any noob that isn't smart enough to run when they see one coming.)



This doesn’t mean there won’t be evos. Quite the contrary. If you can Mara properly, you’ll be sharing twice as many evos as you use.

The key is knowing how to Head-Hop, meaning the ability to bounce from one human’s head to another. Here’s a scenario using A.T.C.S., for the sake of simplicity (as most of my examples will):

You’re an Adv. Mara bouncing along down the hallway, heading towards H-base, when you come upon a cluster of armored humans with s2 weaponry. You can...

A.) Pick out one human to perch on and continuously head-bite, possibly killing him while the other humans tear your exoskeleton  to shreds. Then you respawn as a dretch with (hopefully) 2-3 evos and start all over again, heading back towards the cluster of humans which is still headed your way.

OR...

B.) You can use the momentum you’ve gathered from wall-bouncing to fly over the cluster of humans while getting one good head-swipe in on each as they struggle to follow your path with their cross-hairs. You’ll take minimum damage yourself and will most likely cause a bit of friendly-fire along the way.

With scenario B,  you’ve also accomplished two very important things...

1. You most likely broke up whatever rush the cluster of humans was planning when 1-2 of the humans inevitable turned to follow you back towards H-base.

AND...

2. You did enough damage to each individual human, that those four seconds of combat will eventually net you somewhere between 2-5 evos (depending on how much the humans were allowed to heal before dying).

Use this same tactic three times, and you’ve got enough evos to be everybody’s sugar daddy. Remember, Mara is cheap.

Now what to do once those 2 humans from scenario B start chasing you...

First, learn the map. Plan your path out in advance so that you always know where you’re going. A lost Mara is a dead Mara.

So those 2 humans from before are now chasing you down the A.T.C.S. hallway and your Mara is headed straight for H-base?

Nothing to worry about. Just keep wall-bouncing to increase your speed for a fast retreat. This will also make the Mara a more difficult target for your pursuers. Hopefully you won’t encounter too many humans blocking the way so that you can easily drop down to the lower level of H-base (using the curved ceiling as a barricade against the rets' line of sight), where a few of your Goon-friends are no doubt laying in wait to help secure your getaway. Just be sure not to block them/ get blocked.

*A blocked Mara is a Dead Mara*

Learn how to maneuver around bigger aliens. Mara makes a great decoy and, for this reason, they should usually be leading the charge.


Attacking with Mara:

this is what everyone seems to have trouble with at first and why a lot of people just give up and learn goon instead. They can't hit with Mara. well, I hate to say it, but one of the simplest reasons for this is also one of the hardest to control: Ping.

If you want to pown with Mara and you're playing on a Lagged server, your ping better be pretty decent or else you're gonna wind up missing a lot of seemingly easy shots. Luckily, there's one way that I know around this. When ever you're closing in for a strike...

*HOLD DOWN PRIMARY ATTACK*

If you haven't been spotted yet, the sound of the Mara's swipe will cost you the element of surprise. But if you're charging at a human who's already aware of you, just lay on that left-click like it's a hot girl's boob. You might even be pleasantly surprised to find that the range of you're Mara's attack is actually longer than most people realize (1.2 NOTE: In this version the Mara's attack range, along with all Aliens, has been slightly shortened and the width increased).

Now, assuming your ping is up to speed and you've mastered the wall-bounce enough to maneuver your way in/out/around danger, the next step is learning how to APPROACH your target so that you can get the maximum amount of slashes in before needing to retreat.

(I'm working on a few graphics that will make all of this easier to explain but, for now, I'll just have to use my words...)

The real trick here is learning a technique I call the THE CURVE-AND-TURN, which is basically curving around a human as you head-bite so that it sets your Mara up for a second ground-attack before the human can spin around to continue firing at you. If you can master this ONE TACTIC, the rest will be easy.

I can't tell you how many humans I've dropped just by continually hopping over and around their head while the s2 helm who was so confident one little Mara wasn't gonna kill him desperately tries to keep me in his sights.

Now the curve-and-turn is your bread-and-butter attack pattern, but it can also be linked with other attacks.

As OPTIMUS pointed out, you can start off with a head-bite from the ground and then a shallow jump directly at the humans head as you curve around for the air-bite. Then continue your turn so that you land behind the human for a third grounded head-bite. 1-2-3 and that helmeted human is one strike away from death.


Another great attack is...

THE SINGLE-HEAD SURF

It's hard to pull off and should really only be attempted using Adv. Mara's faster rate of strike. But if you can master the surf, you can take down a single helm in mere moments.

Say you're once again rounding a corner in the A.T.C.S. hallway and you see a Human with his back to you. First thing you should do is approach from the ground to slow your momentum for a more precise jump. Next, align yourself with the human's profile (facing one of his shoulders) and JUMP SO THAT YOU GLIDE ACROSS the top of the (hopefully) unsuspecting human, surfing from shoulder to shoulder while mashing down on that primary attack.

If you've surfed the human correctly, you'll be able to land 3 CONSECUTIVE BITES (1 shoulder, 1 head, 1 more shoulder).

Now, your Mara should be going slow enough to finish with a turn so that you're facing the human as you land. Most likely, he'll be backing up by now but you should still have time for a fourth ground bite as you land. If you make it a head-bite, that makes for a combined total of 72 damage.

NOTE:
Single-Head Surfing DOES NOT REQUIRE THE HUMAN TO STAND STILL to be pulled off. It just makes the execution a whole lot easier. A moving human CAN be surfed, as long you're able to predict their movements. But if you can get a feel for the combination of angle and speed required to surf a single stationary human, all that's left to really pown with Mara is to learn how to surf a fleeing one.


Of course your method of approach should vary depending on the amount of humans you are attempting to attack, as well as their armor/weaponry.

*ALWAYS LOOK BEFORE YOU LEAP*

Say you're ducked off around a corner in A.T.C.S. hallway... probably waiting for back-up or your health to re-gen... When you hear the sound of approaching humans. LISTEN to their gun-fire and note the caliber of their weapons. Sneak a peak around the corner.

Is it a bunch of stomping Chain-Suits coming your way or simply two naked humans and their MGs? Basically, do what you can to make sure you know WHO you are attacking before you decided HOW to attack.

Now, most pros will tell you this is a basic requirement when playing ANY Alien (besides Rant maybe) but, with Mara, knowing your enemy is DOUBLY important because Mara is a squishy bitch who has the potential to pown an entire H-Base or die in the blink of one well-timed Lucy blast.

That's why knowing how and when to approach makes all the difference:
*UNDER CONSTRUCTION*
|A new/better battle approach breakdown-chart is coming soon!|

   _____/ :battlesuit: :battlesuit:
 :marauder:

...Now, there is still a second and very important factor of the Mara-Combat equation that I have yet to address.

And that part is named John Travolta.

You Make Me Feel Like Dancing...

When playing as Mara you will inevitably come across the Pro-Dancer: those humans who seem ready to serve your Mara good and proper anytime you try and make too friendly with the head-hops (you know who you are... Freakin' Bauer.) Just remember...

*A GOOD MARA CAN OUT-DANCE ANY HUMAN*

When dealing with pro-dancers, whether you live or die will be decided by your Ground Work; or how well you can out-dance the dancer.

Say you come across some cocky helm with an MG who suddenly goes all John Travolta on your ass? Well then, damnit, you make like Uma Thurman and show him what you GOT! Don't worry, as a Mara you have two big advantages when dancing with a human:

1. Stamina

Humans have a meter that is depleted every time they jump or boost. You DON'T.

2. You're a FREAKIN' MARA!

Can a human move like a Mara? No! Can a human jump like a Mara? No! Can a human wall-bounce? No! (And if you said, "on X they can...", slap yourself.)

Dracone on Mara-vs-Human Movements:

"Prediction comes into play more with mara because "long lined" patterns are effective against maras, meaning you have to alter your own movement direction much more often. Simple strafing and quick lateral movements are complete shit against any good mara, so you need to use more moves in which you sustain the same general direction of movement, or certain circling movements, although those will fail quickly and only work on the rare occasion."


...So, basically, any pro-dancer human knows he only has so much time on that ballroom floor before his stamina runs out and you slash him to bits. Which is why he'll try to put as many bullets into you as he can before that time is up. So when dancing, you need to be extra careful not to take too much damage, yourself.

One reason is, when the human's clip runs out and he finally goes fleeing, you won't have to do the same.

Another is, encase your Mara DOES happen to get served by some pro-human, you'll (hopefully) still have enough health to wall-bounce the fuck out of there before he can reload.

As for particular dance moves, those really can't be taught. Every dancer has their tactics, and your best bet is to simply know them when you see them. Then you can learn how to react, accordingly.

When dealing with dancers of any kind, the first thing I like to do is immediately retreat and hide around the next blind corner I can find. It throws the human off and also forces him to prematurely use some of his precious boost.

Then, thinking I'm either injured or just a confused noob, the human will usually follow and set himself up for the perfect ambush attack. After that, I'll show the human just how happy I am to dance with a quick head-bite or two from the ground while circling around him.

More often than not, this enough to throw the dancer off his rhythm and he'll either retreat or die while struggling to maintain his jig.
 

ZAP!

The zap-attack is a secondary attack available only to the Adv. Mara class. The attack differs greatly between 1.1 and 1.2, yet both have a range of uses.

F50 on Mara Zap:

"1.1 zap requires that the marauder stay in range of the human for the entire duration of the attack. If you manage that, the final damage is 80 (IIRC) to the first target, and then 1/2 of that to the next closest target, 1/4 to the third closest and so on.

Chaining zap isn't all that important here, and while 1.1 zap has a longer range, you need to make sure that you stay within that range. In general...

*IT'S ALWAYS BETTER TO BITE IF POSSIBLE*

The only human I really recommend attacking with zap in 1.1 (although by now I am not really that experienced with 1.1) is the flamer.

1.2 zap does its damage instantly, and you DO NOT have to stay in range of the human. It also does a full 60 damage to every target it chains to. This attack seems to take 2.2 seconds (this may or may not be accurate).

Bite does close to 100dmg/sec (*150 with headshots), but has a much smaller range than zap, and of course doesn't chain between targets. So its still a good idea to bite whenever possible (practice this!), but zap can be very effective in situations where your target(s) are not close enough and/or you're trying to concentrate on dodging more than getting close to your opponent's head.

Zap-and-run is much easier to pull off than headshot-and-run."

Some players like to use the 1.1 zap as a way finishing off retreating humans who are near death. Though, because of the Zap's slower attack speed, this is only recommended if their are no other enemies still firing at you.


-Demolution on Base-Raiding with Mara-

Ninja Style:
In 1.2 the marauder is the alien to attack the human base with simply because of its zap attack. As with any other time you attack, you should have the in-and-out, ninja mindset when attacking the humans' base. As stated above, ALWAYS KEEP MOVING, especially in and around the human base. The turrets in 1.2 have a slower spin-up time, but once they settle on a target, they are unforgiving. If you get caught in a corner or in between structures for longer than a second or two, you will get shredded/zapped/gunned down. If you are lucky, you can hop in the human base, attack a few times, and hop back out whilst taking minimal damage.

For a full base:
For the most part, humans have learned to not cluster their buildings together. What they sometimes fail to consider, however, is themselves. Whenever there are two or more humans surrounding the armory (or in proximity to any other building really), you should consider zapping their sorry asses. This might not always bode well for your own health as the humans and their defences can easily attack you, but it can deal a lot of damage to multiple targets, as well as pave the way for other maras and/or other aliens to assault the human base.

For an empty base:
Although you won't have as many targets to zap at, you will have a lot less resistance from an empty human base. As usual, approach with caution. A nibble/zap here and there go a long way. It's best to assault with a basi (or booster) nearby and in groups, as you can run in, take a turret or two out, and then run out to heal. Keep an eye out for retreating or spawning humans.

[NOTE: The 1.2 Marauder's zap is much more effective vs. buildings and should be used mainly in the empty-base scenario.]

Teslas:
Because of their knockback attack, it's best to approach with caution. The mara has a longer range (in terms of zap attack) then the tesla, so you should have no problem taking lone teslas out once you get comfortable with dancing just outside of their attack range. Never attack a tesla head on, as they will drain your health very quickly.

Attack in groups:
Two or more maras can take down a human base very quickly with some goon/tyrant support. Always try to attack together, and (if possible) from different sides. Teamwork is essential. Attack what you think will yield the most damage. Suicide attacks are only advised if you think you can deal a decent amount of damage, otherwise keep attacking and then retreating to heal.



Here's BeerBastard's awesome Mara guide, incase you want a second opinion on the subject:
http://tremulous.net/forum/index.php?topic=6879.0

Title: Re: Mara Guide
Post by: + OPTIMUS + on June 28, 2010, 05:16:53 pm
how about destroying bases with mara, or, at least doing a ground headbite+air headbite combo?
Title: Re: Mara Guide
Post by: F50 on June 28, 2010, 06:26:25 pm
Nice guide, easier said than done, but the concept is good. Zap needs a mention during scenario B if you're talking 1.2 though.
Title: Re: Mara Guide
Post by: Conzul on June 29, 2010, 12:42:16 am
Not enough can be said about the Marauder as a diversionary alien. Come on, it's red, it seems to fly (when I was nUb, I thought it was flying) when in skilled hands. No matter how experienced the human attack group is, they will all reflexively aim for it when it pops out first. With just one or two dretches following it closely, they can do just as much OR more damage than the marauder, which gives both them and the mara evos aplenty. Zap is very useful (GPP) against s1 humans, and groups. Two zaps will kill your main target, and if you are in a tight space with enemy group, just zap them till they disperse, and then slash at the loners. Zap is also very helpful against Flamethrowers
Title: Re: Mara Guide
Post by: Venkman on June 29, 2010, 03:41:45 am
Thank you OPTIMUS, F50, and Conzul for the feedback and good points.

I'm definitely adding how to properly raid a base with Mara, which was a great suggestion and a concept I struggled with myself when first learning the game.

"A Mara walks into an S3 H-base and LIVES. I'll tell you how..." will probably be the name of the section.

Not enough can be said about the Marauder as a diversionary alien. Come on, it's red, it seems to fly (when I was nUb, I thought it was flying) when in skilled hands.
Actually, Conzul, it's pretty awesome that you said that. what made me love Mara to begin with was the first time I ever played Trem and I went Human and the FIRST alien I saw was this bright red  :advmarauder: wall-bouncing towards me and I honestly just assumed it was their flying class... Then my baby-fresh noob-ass tried to play as one and I quickly learned just how wrong I was.

I'd like to eventually turn this thread into the penultimate Mara guide and that means gathering as much valid insight on the subject from you guys as possible, especially concerning 1.2 which I still haven't played enough of.

I was planning on discussing the finer points of the 1.1 zap after I went over Mara's primary attack. Though, now I'm thinking that I might need to divide each section of the guide into 1.1/1.2 tactics for it to really work. What do you guys think?

And if F50 or anyone else presently has any 1.2 Mara tips that they'd like to add, let me know and I'll put them in. For now, I know I need to address the more versatile wall-bounce and the radius zap.

Oh, and OPTIMUS, that's one of the greatest signatures I've seen on here...
Just please don't let the noob-feeders see it.
Title: Re: Mara Guide (incomplete)
Post by: Conzul on June 29, 2010, 02:13:29 pm
Well I only play GPP these days, and there are only one or two things that if unfixed would make me go back (when I started playing it was like ten things). Marauder is far easier to use due to the smoothed and pimped walljump. Unlike 1.1, it can go up a vertical surface forever by just holding jump. I never used zap in 1.1, so I can't say that it's better or worse, but I like the 1.2 zap just fine. Get my into the human base, and you'll see why mah score gets that way. Remember that mara is 2wice as potent with friend basi hanging around, cus it's not as fast to go back to base and heal.
   :advmarauder: Mara's low profile means that it can kill rets one at a time, without being fired at from turrets that are just a bit higher (some maps). I haven't mastered the art of squatting on a human and killing them, but I gotta work on that.
Title: Re: Mara Guide (incomplete)
Post by: F50 on June 29, 2010, 09:17:46 pm
All of the advice so far is equally applicable to 1.1 and 1.2. And its all good advice. However the formatting kinda sucks. Use the word 'or' instead of '/' and I think it would look better with a colon, newline, and tab between the type of human you're attacking and the instructions for dealing with it.

Some notes on zap:

Perhaps the most important thing to do is explain just what zap does and how it differs between 1.1 and 1.2.

1.1 zap requires that the marauder stay in range of the human for the entire duration of the attack. If you manage that, the final damage is 80 (IIRC) to the first target, and then half that to the next target, and half that to the next target and so on. Chaining zap isn't all that important here, and while zap has longer range, you need to make sure you stay in that range. In general its better to bite if possible. The only human I really recommend attacking with zap in 1.1 (although by now I am not really that experienced with 1.1) is the flamer.

1.2 zap does its damage instantly, and you do not have to stay in range of the human. It also does a full 60 damage to every target it chains to. This attack seems to take 2.2 seconds (this may or may not be accurate). Bite does close to 100dmg/sec (150 with headshots), but has a much smaller range than zap, and of course doesn't chain between targets. So its still a good idea to bite whenever possible (practice this!), but zap can be very effective in situations where your target(s) are not close enough and/or you're trying to concentrate on dodging more than getting close to your opponent's head. Zap-and-run is much easier to pull off than headshot-and-run.
Title: Re: Mara Guide (incomplete)
Post by: Venkman on July 01, 2010, 09:17:17 am
Tonight, players like Uni and soulja reminded me that I skipped over an important note: How to Deal with John Travolta Dancers

I will rectify this when I'm less burnt out and any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.
Title: Re: Mara Guide (incomplete)
Post by: Conzul on July 01, 2010, 05:13:49 pm
Colour your bullets or numbers so we have an anchor to read from. You documents is a bit to hard to read without that or bold headings.
Title: Re: Mara Guide (incomplete)
Post by: Venkman on July 02, 2010, 04:47:44 am
Good point, I will.

This is actually the first guide I've ever tried to write so I'm a bit lost on how to properly format it. I want this thing to be readable, so thanks for the feedback.

It's GREATLY appreciated.
Title: Re: Mara Guide (incomplete)
Post by: OhaiReapd on July 02, 2010, 06:30:29 pm
Yo, Forgot/Venk. Would greatly appreciate you showing me how to mara, and help me when you and I are on. You know me, {CTU}Reapd
Title: Re: Mara Guide (incomplete)
Post by: Venkman on July 03, 2010, 04:10:48 am
Yo, Forgot/Venk. Would greatly appreciate you showing me how to mara, and help me when you and I are on. You know me, {CTU}Reapd

Fo' sho', Reapd.

Maybe we can even use you guys' CTU training server and get some good dancers like Bauer to go human along with a few noobs for easier targets. Either way, I'm down. I'll be on tonight.

If you can't make it, just let me know and we'll set aside a time to rock some Mara-training.

You CTU guys were all really helpful when I was still noobing it, so I'd be more than happy to pay back the favor.
Title: Re: Mara Guide (incomplete)
Post by: wath of lied on July 05, 2010, 07:48:05 am
great guide! Thanks for the help! it will sure come in handy! I will be reading this multiple and be practicing a lot with them and basis. I want to master the Aliens!!!! :D

Always strive far, no matter how unlikely and thats what i'm going to do!!!
Title: Re: Mara Guide (incomplete)
Post by: Venkman on July 07, 2010, 02:49:31 am
I'm really glad this guide was helpful.

At first the Mara may seem unlikely as an effective powning machine but I promise you, once the concepts start to stick, your Mara's movements will feel like second-nature (much like getting around via the goon's pounce).
Title: Re: Mara Guide (incomplete)
Post by: Venkman on July 07, 2010, 04:23:14 am
And just so you know, I've finally included a part on pro-dancers in the "Attacking with Mara" section.

Although I would still really love additional info on the subject, if you guys have any. Dealing with dancers is something I'm still struggling with, myself.
Title: Re: Mara Guide (incomplete)
Post by: Conzul on July 07, 2010, 04:36:33 am
Although I would still really love additional info on the subject, if you guys have any. Dealing with dancers is something I'm still struggling with, myself.

Run away and let a goon deal with them. Or, wait till your health drops to 50%, then run away and call them names from a safe distance. Srsly there are like only five ppl in tremulous who dance like that.
Title: Re: Mara Guide (incomplete)
Post by: Venkman on July 07, 2010, 04:50:51 am
Run away and let a goon deal with them. Or, wait till your health drops to 50%, then run away and call them names from a safe distance.

Sound advice. Although, I find a lot of these pros are even better at dancing against goons. Still, name-calling is always a great way to fluster good players.

Seriously, when it comes to shit-talking, some of those people are like Jedi using the force.

Srsly there are like only five ppl in tremulous who dance like that.

Good. Let's just hope they stick to different servers. ;) If these guys find each other, I don't know what I'd do...

Well, actually, I guess I'd just go Rant.

But I HATE going Rant. 
Title: Re: Mara Guide (incomplete)
Post by: Conzul on July 07, 2010, 04:58:00 am
Sound advice. Although, I find a lot of these pros are even better at dancing against goons. Still, name-calling is always a great way to fluster good players.

Seriously, when it comes to shit-talking, some of those people are like Jedi using the force.

It is significantly harder for a pounce to miss than a marauder claw. Plus, due to knockback in 1.2, they are frozen from dancing for a second or two, especially if you hit them up into the air.

Good. Let's just hope they stick to different servers. ;) If these guys find each other, I don't know what I'd do...

Well, actually, I guess I'd just go Rant.

But I HATE going Rant. 

What's wrong with rant? Rant kicks ass, the only difference is that in 1.2 it dies now. Begins to mumble  **Charge into human base, rets and teslas frying you, take out a ret or two, and some nub from the other edge of the room fires 2-3 rifle rounds into you and gets 950 fucking credits BECAUSE NO ONE HAS FIXED THAT BUG YET WTF DEVS?!?!?
Title: Re: Mara Guide (incomplete)
Post by: F50 on July 07, 2010, 06:28:41 am
Beware lasgun dancers, they don't seem that scary at first, but they don't have to reload and can be more that a mara can take. Shotguns at least have the common decency to give you some downtime when they reload, and only shoot you when you're almost in range to bite their heads off, but lasguns have no such restriction. Underestimating a good lasgun can be a fatal mistake. Asvarox and a few other players taught me that the hard way.

If you find yourself out of claw range for a few moments when facing a dancer (or any human for that matter), at least in 1.2, don't forget to zap. Going too zap-happy will mean you will never get a claw strike even when you do get close enough, but if you're not going to hit him with you're claw anyways for the next two seconds or so, the damage should be worth it.

With anything that you don't think you can defeat, poison really helps. Jump out, get a shot in, hide and wait for the sound of his medkit being used, then jump in again and leave the area for a little while, ideally cutting off their path to retreat. If they do try to retreat past you and you still can't deal with them, just re-poison them again and go do something else. If you're lucky, you'll still get the kill. In 1.1, medkit users have a small time in which they are immune to further poisoning, 3 seconds IIRC, and if I don't recall correctly, then its 5 seconds. In such a weakened state, even a chainsuit may fall down before your skills.
Title: Re: Mara Guide (incomplete)
Post by: Venkman on July 07, 2010, 06:42:15 am
What's wrong with rant?

Don't get me wrong. I appreciate the Rant and ALL of its uses.

I'd just much rather be the guy ASSISTING the Rant. I think my playing-style is better suited for it, anyway.
Title: Re: Mara Guide (incomplete)
Post by: Jack Bauer on July 09, 2010, 06:20:27 am
Id much rather just be doing the rants job, with a goon <3
Title: Re: Mara Guide (incomplete)
Post by: Venkman on July 09, 2010, 07:11:45 am
Id much rather just be doing the rants job, with a goon <3

And I always appreciate it when you do, Bauer. Like tonight on AA.

GG
Title: Re: Mara Guide (incomplete)
Post by: Venkman on July 22, 2010, 10:33:11 pm
I added another technique to the "Attacking with Mara" section labeled The Single-Head Surf. Let me know if you guys have any variations on the tactic.

I plan on doing the Base-Raiding section this weekend so I can finally get this guide somewhere close to finished.

Title: Re: Mara Guide (incomplete)
Post by: Conzul on July 25, 2010, 06:22:05 pm
Nice progression of your guide. I disagree that the mara isn't a killwhore though. I've been trying some new (to me) stuff with it, you can do more than a goon can in some situ's
Title: Re: Mara Guide (incomplete)
Post by: Venkman on July 27, 2010, 12:03:42 am
Nice progression of your guide. I disagree that the mara isn't a killwhore though. I've been trying some new (to me) stuff with it, you can do more than a goon can in some situ's

Very true. Actually, before humans reach s2, a good Mara can pwn like nobody's business. And if you can reach S2 before Humans, you're Advanced Mara will be their reckoning.

Unfortunately, on most noob-slanted pub-servers, Humans get fed pretty quickly. Last night, it took all of 30 seconds for the first helm to come charging into A-base and my Granger was all like "WTF? We're still 11 kills away from S2, you useless bastards..."

I wish there was a mod that could change the Dretch-model for feeders so that when some noob-Alien goes and dies 10 times while scoring all of 0 kills, he'd respawn looking like a baked turkey or something.

Anyway, Conzul, your point is still valid. I'm gonna go edit that part to clarify that a good Mara CAN kill-whore in certain situations, especially when humans are S1.

Title: Re: Mara Guide (incomplete)
Post by: Aelita on July 27, 2010, 09:46:06 pm
Given good enough accuracy, an advanced Mara can take down Battlesuits.
Title: Re: Mara Guide (incomplete)
Post by: F50 on July 27, 2010, 11:16:02 pm
Anyway, Conzul, your point is still valid. I'm gonna go edit that part to clarify that a good Mara CAN kill-whore in certain situations, especially when humans are S1.

Unless the humans are really sticking together in groups well, the dragoon is much better for killwhoring in hs1. If you're going mara in hs1 rather than goon, you're probably focusing on destroying the human base.
Title: Re: Mara Guide (incomplete)
Post by: Conzul on July 28, 2010, 02:40:09 am
Anyway, Conzul, your point is still valid. I'm gonna go edit that part to clarify that a good Mara CAN kill-whore in certain situations, especially when humans are S1.

Unless the humans are really sticking together in groups well, the dragoon is much better for killwhoring in hs1. If you're going mara in hs1 rather than goon, you're probably focusing on destroying the human base.

:/ Not me. Mara has most of the hitpoints of a goon, and about half the size. Combine with the faster swipe, and most s1 humans are toast if you have the art of headkilling down. If you have poison, you can killwhore vs hs2 quite effectively (with practice. Of course).
Title: Re: Mara Guide (incomplete)
Post by: F50 on July 28, 2010, 04:24:53 am
Very true, but no matter how many hitpoints a marauder has, it can't beat having a 1-hit kill with a greater range. A goon can kill a human in 0.9sec, a regular marauder takes 1.0sec. Advanced goons and advanced marauders can kill in the same time frame, but the marauder is harder by virtue of its shorter range and requiring two hits. And then there is pounce.

Keep in mind that if I were to have a favorite class, it would be the advanced marauder, but its hs2 that it really shows its worth, since it can be kept alive in more strenuous situations (especially those involving greater numbers of humans).
Title: Re: Mara Guide (incomplete)
Post by: Venkman on July 28, 2010, 05:22:08 am
Very true, but no matter how many hitpoints a marauder has, it can't beat having a 1-hit kill with a greater range. A goon can kill a human in 0.9sec, a regular marauder takes 1.0sec. Advanced goons and advanced marauders can kill in the same time frame, but the marauder is harder by virtue of its shorter range and requiring two hits. And then there is pounce.

Keep in mind that if I were to have a favorite class, it would be the advanced marauder, but its hs2 that it really shows its worth, since it can be kept alive in more strenuous situations (especially those involving greater numbers of humans).

Agreed.

I don't know. Maybe it's just because I went from Mara to Goon, but that one-hit naked-killer is extremely helpful to your HP count.

As a Mara, when I approach even a naked/MG who can dance, there's a chance he could get anywhere from 50-75 damage off of me before I'm finally able to land those two bites (unless I get the drop on them, of course). And pro-dancers like Bauer can usually drop my Mara, regardless of their armor... Usually.

Sometimes I can Eye-of-the-Tiger it, but even then I've still lost almost half my HP by the time everything is said done and if there's any other human around, I'm running for my life.

As I said in the Goons on Gooning thread; with a proficient pounce, you can storm an S1 base and literally clog the spawn-cue in a matter of seconds.

That being said, you might just play smaller games than me, Conzul. Usually in the games I play, there's enough people on either team that most Human squads are no less than 3-5 players big. And if Humans reach S2, my Mara usually has to switch to hit-and-run/lure-decoy tactics to be truly effective. And being the decoy usually doesn't net you many kills. It may fill your wallet at times, but it still won't help your kill-count.

Still, you might just be a better Mara than me, which is awesome because that means my guide was actually helpful :D

...I kind of feel like Mr. Miyagi right now. You know, sans the awesome Japanese accent.

Title: Re: Mara Guide (incomplete)
Post by: Demolution on July 28, 2010, 10:31:35 am
A few things regarding the next section of the guide. These are just rough notes, and I'm sure they could be more detailed. :)

Ninja Style:
In 1.2 the marauder is the alien to attack the human base with simply because of its zap attack. As with any other time you attack, you should have the in-and-out, ninja mindset when attacking the humans' base. As stated above, ALWAYS KEEP MOVING, especially in and around the human base. The turrets in 1.2 have a slower spin-up time, but once they settle on a target, they are unforgiving. If you get caught in a corner or in between structures for longer than a second or two, you will get shredded/zapped/gunned down. If you are lucky, you can hop in the human base, attack a few times, and hop back out whilst taking minimal damage.

For a full base:
For the most part, humans have learned to not cluster their buildings together. What they sometimes fail to consider, however, is themselves. Whenever there are two or more humans surrounding the armory (or in proximity to any other building really), you should consider zapping their sorry asses. This might not always bode well for your own health as the humans and their defences can easily attack you, but it can deal a lot of damage to multiple targets, as well as pave the way for other maras and/or other aliens to assault the human base.

For an empty base:
Although you won't have as many targets to zap at, you will have a lot less resistance from an empty human base. As usual, approach with caution. A nibble/zap here and there go a long way. It's best to assault with a basi (or booster) nearby and in groups, as you can run in, take a turret or two out, and then run out to heal. Keep an eye out for retreating or spawning humans.

Teslas:
Because of their knockback attack, it's best to approach with caution. The mara has a longer range (in terms of zap attack) then the tesla, so you should have no problem taking lone teslas out once you get comfortable with dancing just outside of their attack range. Never attack a tesla head on, as they will drain your health very quickly.

Attack in groups:
Two or more maras can take down a human base very quickly with some goon/tyrant support. Always try to attack together, and (if possible) from different sides. Teamwork is essential. Attack what you think will yield the most damage. Suicide attacks are only advised if you think you can deal a decent amount of damage, otherwise keep attacking and then retreating to heal.
Title: Re: Mara Guide (incomplete)
Post by: Venkman on July 28, 2010, 11:16:22 am
All of that is great. Dude, you make me feel almost guilty for dragging my feet on this last section. I just got so lost in Gooning these past 2 weeks that I totally put my Mara aside.

But, seriously, I'm gonna go put that in the guide as-is and just add my own notes later. It's pretty late right now where I live.

But, yeah, well done and thanks a crap-load.
Title: Re: Mara Guide (incomplete)
Post by: Dracone on July 28, 2010, 11:36:42 pm
Don't neglect your backwards key. If a human reverses direction, it's stupid to turn a lot to keep up, compared to just backing up.

The most important thing about mara is, outside of accuracy, being able to make accurate predict the human's movement.
Title: Re: Mara Guide (incomplete)
Post by: Venkman on July 29, 2010, 12:37:52 am
Don't neglect your backwards key. If a human reverses direction, it's stupid to turn a lot to keep up, compared to just backing up.

The most important thing about mara is, outside of accuracy, being able to make accurate predict the human's movement.

Truer words...

Learning how to quickly change direction, both while jumping and on the ground, is an essential part of any good Mara's playbook. Watch your target and learn how to respond to their movements.
Title: Re: Mara Guide (incomplete)
Post by: Conzul on July 29, 2010, 02:07:34 am
The most important skill of ANY, is to be able to predict human movement. It doesn't matter which class you are, if you can do this, you will PWN.
Title: Re: Mara Guide (incomplete)
Post by: Venkman on July 29, 2010, 02:38:25 am
The most important skill of ANY, is to be able to predict human movement. It doesn't matter which class you are, if you can do this, you will PWN.

Agreed. Of course, you still need to know how to handle yourself with each class (Human, Mara, Goon, etc.) or else your predictions will be a moot point.

For example: When I first went from Mara to Goon, I was a bit thrown off by the latter's heavier movements. I had gotten good at predicting Lucy fire but, still, my goon's evading ability was not quite up to par yet and I ended up having to eat a few blasts before I learned.
Title: Re: Mara Guide (incomplete)
Post by: Dracone on July 29, 2010, 02:45:16 am
The most important skill of ANY, is to be able to predict human movement. It doesn't matter which class you are, if you can do this, you will PWN.

Maybe the most useful in general, but it will not lead to success by itself. One of the core things of my human play is my dodging, and from doing it well, it's obvious that it takes way more than prediction to kill some humans. Prediction skills are not the same as the reaction time and aim that you develop that specifically ties into the game itself.

Prediction comes into play more with mara because "long lined" patterns are effective against maras, meaning you have to alter your own movement direction much more often. Simple strafing and quick lateral movements are complete shit against any good mara, so you need to use more moves in which you sustain the same general direction of movement, or certain circling movements, although those will fail quickly and only work on the rare occasion.

With a goon in 1.1, you are simply fast enough that the human needs extremely crafty moves of any kind to fool you, if you know how to use goon. With a goon in 1.2, you have pounce as a lethal weapon, and you will kill any human 1v1ing you, save for a good luci, if you know how to pounce, unless they use the environment. In any case, there's no real prediction necessary, although it doesn't hurt.

I won't go into this discussion with other classes. It's also good to keep in mind that properly predicting the future of a group vs. group fight can lead to you setting yourself up well enough to kill the entire human group. You cannot learn prediction in a game like this before you learn accuracy and movement to some degree anyways, so it would be impossible to put prediction on a pedestal.
Title: Re: Mara Guide (incomplete)
Post by: Conzul on July 29, 2010, 04:04:25 am
Shoulda been obvious. I must remember to use more words.
Title: Re: Mara Guide (incomplete)
Post by: Venkman on July 29, 2010, 08:12:56 am
It's also good to keep in mind that properly predicting the future of a group vs. group fight can lead to you setting yourself up well enough to kill the entire human group.

Definitely. In 1.1, my Dretch could take out 4-5 nakeds in 10 seconds as long as there were a few larger aliens around distracting them long enough for me to get in close. With 1.2's slightly weaker bite, it takes a bit longer. Still, the point stands.


Prediction comes into play more with mara because "long lined" patterns are effective against maras, meaning you have to alter your own movement direction much more often. Simple strafing and quick lateral movements are complete shit against any good mara, so you need to use more moves in which you sustain the same general direction of movement, or certain circling movements, although those will fail quickly and only work on the rare occasion.

I'm just gonna go ahead and put that in my guide, if it's okay with you. The Mara's movements are such an essential part of its ability and you did a great job of explaining why.
Title: Re: Mara Guide (incomplete)
Post by: Dracone on July 29, 2010, 04:20:52 pm
I don't mind anything I say getting thrown into guides, I'm not exactly trying to save the community or anything, when I post.
Title: Re: Mara Guide (incomplete)
Post by: AppleJuice on July 29, 2010, 04:41:47 pm
Prediction comes into play more with mara because "long lined" patterns are effective against maras, meaning you have to alter your own movement direction much more often. Simple strafing and quick lateral movements are complete shit against any good mara, so you need to use more moves in which you sustain the same general direction of movement, or certain circling movements, although those will fail quickly and only work on the rare occasion.

I'm just gonna go ahead and put that in my guide, if it's okay with you. The Mara's movements are such an essential part of its ability and you did a great job of explaining why.

This is completely false. Strafing is not "complete shit" against good maras, especially not V-strafing. Of course, you can't only use strafing, but I don't know why anyone would. Circling/half-circling is also extremely effective; I don't know why you think they only work rarely. I seem to remember St. Anger and myself killing most good maras in 1.1 (2 years ago, when we still played) 10+ times in a row with just a rifle using these techniques. Of course, we also used long movements, but we pretty much used everything. It's unwise to say one particular technique is complete shit - every technique has its own particular situation at which it's good. Surprise is also a big factor.
Title: Re: Mara Guide (incomplete)
Post by: Dracone on July 29, 2010, 05:54:32 pm
I said "simple strafing and quick lateral movements." "V strafing" is a different story, St. Anger pretty much used that alone to kill me when I had mara, since he did it very well. I put that out there because, although "I don't know why anyone would" is pretty much what you want to think for such simple movements, a lot of people would use them since they can work on even the best goons and tyrants. men and Dustin did it the best.

Of course it's situational, but you use the moves that are best for the broadest range of situations. You cannot read a mara's position and use any rapid movements without that being an unreliable decision of chance, since you're damn near always still going to be within his range still.

Also, when I said circling will only work occasionally, I meant that after someone does it to you once or twice you can easily just track them and keep hitting them, and you can quickly funlily its use by becoming prepared. St. Anger would kill me maybe once or twice and then it wouldn't work again, and just about everyone else was unable to use it since I was prepared.

I'm not arguing with Apple's post, everything he said is legitimate and valuable information, simply clarifying what I meant.
Title: Re: Mara Guide (incomplete)
Post by: AppleJuice on July 29, 2010, 07:08:44 pm
Also, when I said circling will only work occasionally, I meant that after someone does it to you once or twice you can easily just track them and keep hitting them, and you can quickly funlily its use by becoming prepared. St. Anger would kill me maybe once or twice and then it wouldn't work again, and just about everyone else was unable to use it since I was prepared.

No good player is going to use the same dodge 3x or 4x in a row against another good player. Any good alien player is going to adapt. It has nothing to do with marauders.

However, circling does work 10x in a row, anyway, against marauders (and even some goons). I remember killing everyone's marauder using just circling + backing away + some very simple strafing, back in Zubs. It wasn't just me, though. St. Anger could do it, Yarou could do it, Ozzy could do it...etc. And that was just with a rifle. If anyone were to use a shotgun back then, s/he would have been called a "noob" for using an "OP" weapon. That's just how weak the marauder was against certain strategies.

I know you said "simple strafing, etc." My point is that those, too, work. Not just V-strafing, which is actually much easier to counter once you're used to it (just let the human come to you). Everything works if you constantly change your dodge.

Marauders have their place, and they certainly don't suck, but it's very easy to kill them once you're good (and active).
Title: Re: Mara Guide (incomplete)
Post by: Fuego on July 29, 2010, 09:38:02 pm
is this the guide for 1.2? or 1.1? but it is a very useful guide i must say.  :advmarauder:. i love theadv mara the most out off all the aliens because of its speed.
Title: Re: Mara Guide (incomplete)
Post by: Demolution on July 29, 2010, 11:31:11 pm
is this the guide for 1.2? or 1.1? but it is a very useful guide i must say.  :advmarauder:. i love theadv mara the most out off all the aliens because of its speed.

It's for both, as there are places where things that differ from each version are noted.

Venkman: Can you add a note in the base raiding section that the marauder's zap is only highly effective vs. buildings in 1.2?
Title: Re: Mara Guide (incomplete)
Post by: Venkman on July 30, 2010, 04:58:15 am
is this the guide for 1.2? or 1.1? but it is a very useful guide i must say.  :advmarauder:. i love theadv mara the most out off all the aliens because of its speed.

It's for both, as there are places where things that differ from each version are noted.

Venkman: Can you add a note in the base raiding section that the marauder's zap is only highly effective vs. buildings in 1.2?

@Demolution: Sure thing. And thank you for answering Fuego's question and your help with everything else. I might just add a note in the guide's title specifying it's for both 1.1 and 1.2.

@Fuego: I'm glad you found the guide useful. Hearing that makes me glad I put it together. And yeah, even though I'm Gooning a lot more these days, Adv. Mara will always be my first love.



Title: Re: Mara Guide (incomplete)
Post by: Venkman on August 07, 2010, 07:55:08 am
Apologies for the BUMP. I just finally started playing 1.2 for real and felt compelled to edit the guide. For those who care but don't feel like scrolling through, here's what I've added so far:

*1.1 Mara is NOT a Kill-Whore*

(EDIT[August 7th, 2010]:
So when I wrote that last bit, I hadn't played much 1.2 Mara and had relied mainly on other people's impute when it came to the subject. Now, having clocked enough hours on 1.2 that I couldn't even imagine going back to 1.1, I feel compelled to correct certain portions of my Mara guide. Starting with this...

*A Good 1.2 Mara CAN Pown Harder Than Any Dragoon*

Props to Conzul who tried to explain this to me before I had ever bothered to find out for myself and a big sloppy wet thank you to the Devs for fine tuning my favorite class. Despite what you might have read on the forum, 1.2 Aliens are AWESOME and the new Adv. Mara is a Flying Lawnmower of Death to any noob that isn't smart enough to run when they see one coming.)
Title: Re: Mara Guide (incomplete)
Post by: Conzul on August 07, 2010, 04:55:50 pm
the new Adv. Mara is a Flying Lawnmower of Death
+1
Title: Zombie Bump
Post by: Venkman on November 11, 2010, 09:28:11 pm
Sorry about the necro, guys. I just wanted to bump my guide real quick because I finally have some spare time to devote to this thing and I'd really like to update it for 1.2's quicker deadlier Mara.

Hopefully, you'll see some updates soon but for now I'd just like to tell all those players who provided such great info and feedback for the 1.1 guide to feel free to send any notes on 1.2 Mara that you might already have.

There's a LOT I want to add but some of the basic additions will be:

-How to Approach (number of humans/ stage/ weapon)

-How to Coordinate a Zap-Rush

-How to Assist Goons, Rants
[This will be a big part, considering that Mara is essentially an assist-class and also the 1.2 Mara's more fluid movements/ smaller model allows for the class to now follow or lead without too much potential blocking.]

Please feel free to post any more notes or advice that you might have here (or just PM if it's a lot.)

Title: Re: Mara Guide
Post by: SirDude on November 13, 2010, 11:45:35 am
you say you should run when you see a chain suit and that is true, but want to know can be even MORE deadly? someone with a lassgun, helm, and good aim. reloading isn't a issue, it has perfect accuracy at any range, and if they have a helm they cant really be ambushed.

also, fear humans who get good with a high mouse sensitivity, as if they learn how,they can spin around even some of the best maras with out having to relay on dodge and spring, that paired with a lassgun, makes for a mara eater...
Title: Re: Mara Guide
Post by: Meisseli on November 13, 2010, 11:50:06 am
you say you should run when you see a chain suit and that is true, but want to know can be even MORE deadly? someone with a lassgun, helm, and good aim. reloading isn't a issue, it has perfect accuracy at any range, and if they have a helm they cant really be ambushed.

also, fear humans who get good with a high mouse sensitivity, as if they learn how,they can spin around even some of the best maras with out having to relay on dodge and spring, that paired with a lassgun, makes for a mara eater...
Not really, chain suit, and chain gun in general is far worse of an enemy for a marauder than a lasgunner. A chaingun's damage per second is twice the lasgun's and doesn't need reload either.

I also find mass driver be a more of a threat than a lasgun though lasgun works fine in killing marauders too.
Title: Re: Mara Guide
Post by: SirDude on November 14, 2010, 02:05:06 am
the thing is tho is that a lassgun has perfect accuracy, meaning it can get you from any range and that can make running away harder, and it still can dish-out more damage then a chaingun if more shots hit overall as the chaingun bad accuracy.
Title: Re: Mara Guide
Post by: Tremulant on November 14, 2010, 02:26:28 am
A well aimed chaingun when you're not expecting it can drain your health so rapidly that there's no time to distance yourself from the thing.
Title: Re: Mara Guide
Post by: F50 on November 14, 2010, 02:41:24 am
True, but chainguns are dangerous to any alien class. Lasguns are almost as dangerous as chainguns, but its not obvious.
Title: Re: Mara Guide
Post by: Celestial_Rage on November 14, 2010, 03:15:46 am
Lasgun requires constant aim. While they are deadly in those with impeccable aim, chainguns are fairly deadly no matter the aim (well, reasonable aim).
Title: Re: Mara Guide
Post by: SirDude on November 14, 2010, 05:42:01 am
but with aim like that is a double sided blade, not everyone can do it but those who can are far more deadly with a lssgun then with a chain gun.
Title: Re: Mara Guide
Post by: Dracone on November 14, 2010, 05:57:28 am
Nope.

I'm finding it pretty crazy that you, some guy who claims that he loves to dodge, would be so in love with a weapon of range. It says that you clearly have no clue about how chaingun is, disregarding ammo limitations, pretty much more efficient than any other weapon if you know how to dodge, since the lack of range loses prominence when the aliens can't hit you up close anyways.

I tend to chaingun marauders in between 3 and 4 seconds if they try to engage me and don't get out within the first 1 1/2 seconds. Just try and give me some legit names who do that with lasgun damn near every time.
Title: Re: Mara Guide
Post by: Venkman on November 15, 2010, 08:23:59 am
I have some field-result numbers pertaining to the "chaingun or lasgun; the better Mara-killer" debate. Keep in mind that, since the last GPP update, I've been playing almost exclusively as Mara in the hopes of getting the 1.2 guide going.
So, in 54 hours of me playing as Aliens, the weapons that killed me the most were...

Weapon | Deaths
Chaingun | 218
Lasgun | 172

Now, that's not to say that I'm the most efficient example of how to play as Mara or anything, but I have been playing the class long enough to know when and how to retreat. And when I do get caught by a human who has a long enough line of sight on me and a good enough aim to predict my movements, I've found that the chaingun is much better at actually killing me before I can round a corner where as I'll usually make it to safety before a lasgun can get those last 15 or so HP off me.

Still, those death-tolls ARE pretty close.
Title: Re: Mara Guide
Post by: jez on November 15, 2010, 10:04:52 am
Interesting. Probably should also to take into account total usage of those two weapons. A better statistic to compare might be ratio of total kills to mara kills for the two weapons (still making a lot of assumptions of course...).

http://tremulous.net/forum/index.php?topic=14028.0 for weapon usage:

55349   = Total LASGUN kills
42103   = Total CHAINGUN kills

[venkman chaingun deaths]/[total chaingun kills]    = 5.2e-3
[venkman lasgun deaths]/[total lasgun kills]       = 3.1e-3

So basically, as lasgun seems to be more widely used than the chaingun, its all the more interesting that you're experiencing more chaingun deaths.
Title: Re: Mara Guide
Post by: SirDude on November 19, 2010, 12:54:44 am
what the user is wear also plays a a key roll.

a chain suit may be able to take more damage and and dish more out a close range, but he is prone to be ambushed and is easier to run away from and range is a bad problem for it, while someone with a lassgun bpack and helm, can't be ambush effectively and has a godlike range and he can crouch, and i find that to be very useful in general and at not getting bit in the head from maras.

Nope.

I'm finding it pretty crazy that you, some guy who claims that he loves to dodge, would be so in love with a weapon of range. It says that you clearly have no clue about how chaingun is, disregarding ammo limitations, pretty much more efficient than any other weapon if you know how to dodge, since the lack of range loses prominence when the aliens can't hit you up close anyways.

I tend to chaingun marauders in between 3 and 4 seconds if they try to engage me and don't get out within the first 1 1/2 seconds. Just try and give me some legit names who do that with lasgun damn near every time.
so i cant cant be good at dodging and like the lassgun? its not like is a this or that choice.

for the chain accuracy deal i see your point but your giving the aliens a major advantage, your giving him close range, that's what alien specialize on so if you mess up or he corners you with pounce or trample, your going to die and i bet when/if you used your medon top of that he has a better chance to runaway then you.
Title: Re: Mara Guide
Post by: Dracone on November 19, 2010, 02:01:23 am
Quote from: SirDude
what the user is wear also plays a a key roll.

a chain suit may be able to take more damage and and dish more out a close range, but he is prone to be ambushed and is easier to run away from and range is a bad problem for it, while someone with a lassgun bpack and helm, can't be ambush effectively and has a godlike range and he can crouch, and i find that to be very useful in general and at not getting bit in the head from maras.

You give these points as though using anything but a battlesuit with chaingun is stupid, when chaingun is great with helmet and light armor. But I'll go away from that and remind you of how you only have to make one successful dodge while aiming at a goon that's pouncing you in order to kill it, unless it runs away. Also, I don't find it any harder to chase an alien with battlesuit than anything else. I'd say dodge's use in chasing aliens is almost as important as its use in not getting hit.

Quote from: SirDude
so i cant cant be good at dodging and like the lassgun? its not like is a tisor that choice.

Not what I was saying. My point was that for anyone who loves to dodge, like you, would realize that chaingun is the best weapon in the game for which dodging works with, save for luci. So either you don't know how to dodge, which would support the lack of knowledge of chaingun's potential, or you know how to dodge but don't use chaingun. Both void your credibility in this.

Quote from: SirDude
for the chain accuracy deal i see your point but your giving the aliens a major advantage, if you mess up or he corners you with pounce or trample, your going to die

"If you mess up or get cornered you're going to die." That's just stupid.

Quote from: SirDude
i bet when/if you used your medon top of that he has a better chance to runaway then you.

"Better chance to run away than you." I don't recall a time when me and an enemy simultaneously decided we were done fighting and ran. And the thing about the medkit; I just haven't the literacy to understand what the fuck you're saying I guess.
Title: Re: Mara Guide
Post by: SirDude on November 19, 2010, 05:32:04 am

You give these points as though using anything but a battlesuit with chaingun is stupid, when chaingun is great with helmet and light armor. But I'll go away from that and remind you of how you only have to make one successful dodge while aiming at a goon that's pouncing you in order to kill it, unless it runs away. Also, I don't find it any harder to chase an alien with battlesuit than anything else. I'd say dodge's use in chasing aliens is almost as important as its use in not getting hit.


its kinda disorientating when you uses the chaingun without a battle suit and it can make you not use it to its full potential, and with the goon that depends on many things like goons skill, and it is easier to run away from a battlesuit as he does not have radar. why would you uses dodge to chase a alien, you might need it and i believe that sprinting is faster too.


Not what I was saying. My point was that for anyone who loves to dodge, like you, would realize that chaingun is the best weapon in the game for which dodging works with, save for luci. So either you don't know how to dodge, which would support the lack of knowledge of chaingun's potential, or you know how to dodge but don't use chaingun. Both void your credibility in this.

so if i don't know how to dodge i don't know how to use the chaingun and visa versa?no it does not, it might just mean the chain gun does not fit ply play style(not that it doesn't)or for other reasons. but how is that ruin my credibility? the chaingun is not THE dodging weapon, its the painsaw, you just can't bet it at close range.

"If you mess up or get cornered you're going to die." That's just stupid.

i ended cutting things out after here, after advantage i meant to say "your giving him close range, that's what alien specialize on so" but how is that stupid?

"Better chance to run away than you." I don't recall a time when me and an enemy simultaneously decided we were done fighting and ran. And the thing about the medkit; I just haven't the literacy to understand what the fuck you're saying I guess.


again i was cutting things out here, and that was stuff i forgot to delete.


Title: Re: Mara Guide
Post by: Tremulant on November 19, 2010, 07:39:40 pm
I dodge around corners in pursuit of aliens all the time, chaingun with helmet does the trick very nicely for tearing huge chunks of health off whatever you're chasing, especially if you're not alone. I would quote and respond to points but i can't be bothered to reformat your mess
*hint*close quote tag, insert comment, open quote tag, etc*hint*.
Title: Re: Mara Guide
Post by: A Spork on November 19, 2010, 08:25:56 pm
On Bsuit vs Helm+Larmour:
I pretty much never bsuit, I much prefer the stealth and radar of the latter config.
If the (mild)shaking of a chaingun messes up your aim that bad, then yes you do suck.


Also, lol @ arguing with Cone over tactics and proper weapon usage.
Title: Re: Mara Guide
Post by: SirDude on November 20, 2010, 12:16:19 am
it is meant to screw up your aim, its disorientating making things can get confusing and tricky, and if it does not effect you then they need to up that recoil...
Title: Re: Mara Guide
Post by: jm82792 on November 20, 2010, 04:12:36 am
I enjoy running around with a helmet + light armor + chain + nade
The chain works very well with marauders as long as you dance and don't let them bonce on your head..
I found crouching is a bad idea unless your far away or have cover.
The chains shaking isn't a problem in my opinion.

Title: Re: Mara Guide
Post by: Venkman on November 20, 2010, 05:19:29 am
My internet was down for a few days and I'm still working the rust off of the two month break I recently had to take from Trem, but I swear I'm going to start a real 1.2 guide soon. My plan now is to do it as a separate guide, while simply cutting and pasting the essential points (the "Basics" section, etc.)

So basically, as lasgun seems to be more widely used than the chaingun, its all the more interesting that you're experiencing more chaingun deaths.

I think it has to do mainly with the amount of time that I've spent playing as Mara since the last update. Because even though the Lasgun is the more user-friendly weapon and thus easier (for noobs/moderates) to kill aliens with, the chain gun is better designed to kill Marauders, specifically. Combine this with the proactive-dodge techniques mentioned here...

My point was that for anyone who loves to dodge, like you, would realize that chaingun is the best weapon in the game for which dodging works with, save for luci. So either you don't know how to dodge, which would support the lack of knowledge of chaingun's potential, or you know how to dodge but don't use chaingun. Both void your credibility in this.

and here...

I dodge around corners in pursuit of aliens all the time, chaingun with helmet does the trick very nicely for tearing huge chunks of health off whatever you're chasing, especially if you're not alone...

...and you've got yourself a merciless Mara death-machine that will remind you, over and over, what it sounds like when Maras cry.

I've experienced this tactic a number of times, thanks to "Drac-owned" personally, and I can assure you it's enough to make any Marauder grateful the next time he sees a lasgun.

Title: Re: Mara Guide
Post by: SirDude on November 20, 2010, 05:39:13 am
I enjoy running around with a helmet + light armor + chain + nade
The chain works very well with marauders as long as you dance and don't let them bonce on your head..
I found crouching is a bad idea unless your far away or have cover.
The chains shaking isn't a problem in my opinion.


if a mara jumps for the head in any way, a crouch can give your head just enough space to not get bit in the head, it works a good chunk of the time.
Title: Re: Mara Guide
Post by: Tremulant on November 20, 2010, 12:44:41 pm
I enjoy running around with a helmet + light armor + chain + nade
The chain works very well with marauders as long as you dance and don't let them bonce on your head..
I found crouching is a bad idea unless your far away or have cover.
The chains shaking isn't a problem in my opinion.


if a mara jumps for the head in any way, a crouch can give your head just enough space to not get bit in the head, it works a good chunk of the time.
I think he meant crouching for long periods of time to steady your fire.
Title: Re: Mara Guide
Post by: Meisseli on November 20, 2010, 06:20:21 pm
a chain suit may be able to take more damage and and dish more out a close range, but he is prone to be ambushed and is easier to run away from and range is a bad problem for it, while someone with a lassgun bpack and helm, can't be ambush effectively and has a godlike range and he can crouch, and i find that to be very useful in general and at not getting bit in the head from maras.
Oh dear, bad quoting :)
Title: Re: Mara Guide
Post by: Venkman on November 21, 2010, 12:37:26 am
a chain suit may be able to take more damage and and dish more out a close range, but he is prone to be ambushed and is easier to run away from and range is a bad problem for it, while someone with a lassgun bpack and helm, can't be ambush effectively and has a godlike range and he can crouch, and i find that to be very useful in general and at not getting bit in the head from maras.
Oh dear, bad quoting :)

My point was that for anyone who loves to dodge, like you, would realize that chaingun is the best weapon in the game for which dodging works with, save for luci. So either you don't know how to dodge, which would support the lack of knowledge of chaingun's potential, or you know how to dodge but don't use chaingun. Both void your credibility in this.

Un-F*cked

Hopefully, I did a better job this time and will be sure to double-check my cut-and-pastes better next time. My apologize to Dracone for accidentally putting such retarded words in his mouth. I should probably just stop posting my responses at 5:00 a.m.

Title: Re: Mara Guide
Post by: jm82792 on November 21, 2010, 05:47:00 am
That happens to me so much.
I'm ready to fall asleep and I'm posting.

Anyways steadying your fire with the chain is a bad idea unless you know you won't get nailed.
Even a good dretch can kill you if your crouching, without crouching you can bonce around quicker and avoid threats.
I never knew crouching could save your backside so well(I knew but it was a pain to use).
I didn't bother using dodge until I bound it to the unused side button of my mouse, and now I use it all the time.
Now if I had a third button(the other one is for medi) I'd try crouching if it save myself half the time.

I'm happy though, dodge has made me good enough to occasionally rule the top of the list for half,
sometimes even the whole game.

Unfortunately the last thing I need to do is play more trem :D