Tremulous Forum

General => Official Servers => Topic started by: Tokai on June 29, 2010, 12:26:48 am

Title: Admin Abuse and Harassment on 1.2 Server
Post by: Tokai on June 29, 2010, 12:26:48 am
This guy GT-Moose-stach was trolling me all day. The rest of GT clan joined in and ganged up on me. GT-Moose-stach called 2 kick votes against me and both failed and he later tked me twice for no reason. He said it was for bleeding in which he was lying. I called a kick vote against him and GeeTee-Honest Abe canceled it. I named my self GT-Attention Whore because they were spamming. So I started spamming too. I was muted by GeeTee-Honest Abe for spamming. I'm generally a quiet person but I can only take so much and I start to fight back. Thank you for looking.

(http://i935.photobucket.com/albums/ad191/Tokai15/tremulous-gpp2010-06-2817-34-16-06.jpg)

(http://i935.photobucket.com/albums/ad191/Tokai15/tremulous-gpp2010-06-2817-55-00-17.jpg)

(http://i935.photobucket.com/albums/ad191/Tokai15/tremulous-gpp2010-06-2817-54-43-56.jpg)

(http://i935.photobucket.com/albums/ad191/Tokai15/tremulous-gpp2010-06-2817-33-05-42.jpg)

(http://i935.photobucket.com/albums/ad191/Tokai15/tremulous-gpp2010-06-2817-46-09-96.jpg)






Title: Re: Admin Abuse and Harassment on 1.2 Server
Post by: HamStar on June 29, 2010, 01:29:59 am
Thank you for bringing this to our attention. The parties involved will be warned and the admin list has been revised in the US1 server. Please note for the future however, you should follow the guidelines set in the Official server rules (http://tremulous.net/forum/index.php?topic=12896.0) when filing a complaint concerning admin abuse. Also, don't stoop to their level by "fighting back"; just take the necessary evidence, disconnect from the server and perhaps cool off a little. For other servers, I'd advise you to do the same, except with any complaints going to that server's website/forums, or the head admins.

On a lighter note, please enjoy your stay on the Official servers.  :)
Title: Re: Admin Abuse and Harassment on 1.2 Server
Post by: kharnov on June 29, 2010, 01:39:31 am
Before we begin, I would like to stress that I am not the leader of GT. I am the co-founder of our great and glorious clam, but I hold no sway over the clam legions and they are to act as they wish in regards to server rules. However, under these circumstances I can speak for GT.

First, a dissection of your post:

Quote
This guy GT-Moose-stach was trolling me all day. The rest of GT clan joined in and ganged up on me.

Unfortunate behavior. I do not condone this, and I wouldn't expect such behavior from junior admins. Adjustments have been made to the admin levels of those involved, but again, you could have prevented this through the usage of the /ignore function. This is the first thing anyone being trolled should do, and is critical when considering the proceeding turn of events:

Quote
GT-Moose-stach called 2 kick votes against me and both failed and he later tked me twice for no reason. He said it was for bleeding in which he was lying.

Your provided evidence shows nothing of this. Where is the condump? We will have to wait for Tremstats to update and provide a game log, but if they were teamkilling you, why wouldn't you take a screenshot of that? Only the very last one shows a teamkill, but without proper context. We don't even know if you were shooting anyone.

Quote
I called a kick vote against him and GeeTee-Honest Abe canceled it. I named my self GT-Attention Whore because they were spamming. So I started spamming too. I was muted by GeeTee-Honest Abe for spamming.

This is where everything goes downhill. When these people are clearly harassing you, why did you not ignore them, or ask the other admins for help? Klepto was on, and I'm sure some others too. To make things worse, you responded in a negative fashion. Just to clarify, the command is /ignore, followed by a name.

Quote
I'm generally a quiet person but I can only take so much and I start to fight back. Thank you for looking.

No, you do not fight back. You ignore or ask another admin for help. This does not help portray you in a sympathetic light. The admin lists have been updated, but remember: you are responsible for your own actions just as much as the other involved parties.

Have fun.
Title: Re: Admin Abuse and Harassment on 1.2 Server
Post by: mooseberry on June 29, 2010, 03:16:14 am
I have no idea what happened, but if anything, these pictures make you look like a spammer to  me...
Title: Re: Admin Abuse and Harassment on 1.2 Server
Post by: A Spork on June 29, 2010, 04:19:51 am
The fact you started wearing their tag doesn't help you at all...that would tick me off myself.
Title: Re: Admin Abuse and Harassment on 1.2 Server
Post by: Circle on June 29, 2010, 05:49:20 am
I've played with Tokai a couple of times and he is generally quiet. Maybe it was that abusive language toward his sexual orientation that blew his fuse.

A 3-7 fail vote is not even close enough to warrant another vote kick.
Tokai may not have known that there were other administrators on.

There is indeed a screenshot of the 2 teamkills.
Title: Re: Admin Abuse and Harassment on 1.2 Server
Post by: KillerWhale on June 29, 2010, 06:07:56 am
While I do not condone his retaliation, Tokai has always been a quiet and respectful player in my presence.
This may be his first time dealing with admin abuse on a regulated server, many players do not know exactly what to do.

While these screenshots look damning to Moose, Flank, and Night, I would like to see the full text of the game in Tremstats.
If it is truly what is shown in these screenshots and his summary, I would like to see the three demoted and given a long, firm talking to.

As a note to anybody, keep the trolling to your clan server; the Official Servers are "Serious Biznis"(tm).

[Edit: Could you tell us what time/day the game was? It would help in finding it. Also, are full game texts still stored on Tremstats?]
Title: Re: Admin Abuse and Harassment on 1.2 Server
Post by: F50 on June 29, 2010, 07:56:12 am
According to the official rules, admins (and really everyone should, but admins are specifically told to) are supposed to autorecord demos. Perhaps moose and/or nightstrike has one lying around as well?

Personally though I am...skeptical...of your account of things. You say that he accused you of bleeding and that you were not? Not intentionally perhaps... And quite frankly, you're reaction really doesn't fill me with confidence. Please explain the entire story, there's something you're missing here.

Let me begin:

All of the abuse you mentioned comes from moose, who is not an admin as evidenced by the fact that in your very own screenshot you called a kick vote on him, which is not possible for admin levels greater than 1. Actually I couldn't find even a level 1 entry for him. The mute from Abe can be justified from your screen shot, both of your kickvotes had no reason (I'm assuming the cancelvote at the top of that screenshot is your vote here, considering that both of moose's kickvotes are documented). Finally, moose does give a reason for two of his three kickvotes even by your own account: "aggressive behavior" and "bleed/attempted tk". You don't seem to do as much for your retribution kickvote. Furthermore, oddly enough, your being tked happens after both of these. While I don't condone (and often kick for) retribution/self defense tks (what I am beginning to assume was the nature of moose's tks), I think you're beginning to go off the deep end here. I challenge you to show me admin abuse here, for you have none documented.

So please, more details. Oh, and especially what do you mean by "can't take it?".

EDIT: a fifth re-read makes me realize you only called one kickvote in your screenshots, as two of them overlap. That makes things look a little bit better for you, although I now don't understand what moose means by "five votes". If you're vote was a revote or retaliatory I still do not see abuse in this.

Furthermore I fail to see how this is a problem for nightstrike however, considering he only has one line of text in the entire thing, and his question (albeit somewhat insulting, and if you want to be Pharisaically technical I guess you could construe that to be a racial slur) is a perfectly valid one. Similarly, while outflanked's conduct wasn't particularly flattering of himself, I fail to see how calling someone a moron and an idiot is against server rules. Certainly no score shall be awarded for perfect conduct, but not damning by any stretch of the imagination.
Title: Re: Admin Abuse and Harassment on 1.2 Server
Post by: David on June 29, 2010, 08:55:13 am
http://stats.tremulous.net/tremstats/us1/game_log.php?game_id=8893

Post a fucking condump next time.
Title: Re: Admin Abuse and Harassment on 1.2 Server
Post by: KillerWhale on June 29, 2010, 09:27:09 am
Thanks much, David.

Nevermind my earlier post, after reading through, it looks like was an overall "bad".

Some good rules of thumb that I could see people taking away from this:

1) Don't spam a bind that insults someone 10 times in a row and expect everything to be daisies.
2) Don't retaliate, just ignore. No matter what they say about your mother.
3) Make sure someone is an admin before you go calling "abuse!"
4) Make sure the people are involved are admins when you look into it.
5) Lol, drama.
Title: Re: Admin Abuse and Harassment on 1.2 Server
Post by: F50 on June 29, 2010, 09:38:14 am
Thanks david, now I have what will have to pass as a condump. Its unfortunate that admin action is not listed there.

This guy GT-Moose-stach was trolling me all day.
Checked the previous 3 games. It seems rather that you were trolling him.
Quote
The rest of GT clan joined in and ganged up on me.
This much is true, but apparently did not effect the votes.
Quote
GT-Moose-stach called 2 kick votes against me and both failed and he later tked me twice for no reason. He said it was for bleeding in which he was lying.
Sure, you've got a point there. However, he's not an admin. I'm still not convinced he was lying. Your story doesn't appear to be particularly accurate otherwise.
Quote
I called a kick vote against him and GeeTee-Honest Abe canceled it. I named my self GT-Attention Whore because they were spamming. So I started spamming too.
you were spamming loooooong before that. Oddly enough, I don't see much spam at all from the GTs in that game, or the previous 3.
Quote
I was muted by GeeTee-Honest Abe for spamming.
Actually it seems that you were muted for calling what seems to be at that point a ridiculous vote. Honestly though, you could've been muted 20 or so times before that for spamming.
Title: Re: Admin Abuse and Harassment on 1.2 Server
Post by: SlackerLinux on June 29, 2010, 11:54:37 am
yeh screendumps are horrible for working out what happened the game log in the link doesnt look like admin abuse
Title: Re: Admin Abuse and Harassment on 1.2 Server
Post by: Deadbeat Engineer on June 29, 2010, 02:04:24 pm
All of the abuse you mentioned comes from moose, who is not an admin as evidenced by the fact that in your very own screenshot you called a kick vote on him, which is not possible for admin levels greater than 1. Actually I couldn't find even a level 1 entry for him.

Ok, while I don't really condone this whole thing, Mustachio has been getting really pissed lately, b/c a lot of people HAVE been TK'ing and bleeding and griefing. UnnamedPlayer, the admin one, was TK'ing him a whole game, and it was either him or another admin who demoted him to lv0 when they got into a heated debate. If there is a demo of it, I wouldn't be surprised if there was some bleeding going on, as he doesn't joke about that.

I'm not specifically blaming either of you, but I know him, and he wouldn't call a kick-vote b/c he doesn't like you, he'd call it because you were griefing.

I'll talk to him about this, and I ask the other admins if it is ok if he gets his lv2 admin back b/c of the douche-ness of UnnamedPlayer (I'm uploading a demo/video of that game soon enough). If not, at least lv.1 for name protection.
Title: Re: Admin Abuse and Harassment on 1.2 Server
Post by: A Spork on June 29, 2010, 02:44:21 pm
That link doesn't look muh like admin abuse, but it does reek of troll...

Also, holy crap War was chatting some :o
Title: Re: Admin Abuse and Harassment on 1.2 Server
Post by: Kiwi on June 29, 2010, 06:20:54 pm
That link doesn't look muh like admin abuse, but it does reek of troll...
Tremstats doesn't show admins commands iirc
Title: Re: Admin Abuse and Harassment on 1.2 Server
Post by: A Spork on June 30, 2010, 06:57:27 am
True enough, so I suppose there could have been some, but it didn't look like there was, just trolling...
Perhaps tremstats should show admin commands too?
Title: Re: Admin Abuse and Harassment on 1.2 Server
Post by: Kiwi on June 30, 2010, 03:57:46 pm
True enough, so I suppose there could have been some, but it didn't look like there was, just trolling...
Yeah, I agree

Perhaps tremstats should show admin commands too?
I agree about this too
Title: Re: Admin Abuse and Harassment on 1.2 Server
Post by: F50 on July 01, 2010, 01:34:47 am
Other sources have told me, though you can also get this from reading tremstats and comparing it with the screenshots closely, that the only admin action against tokai was a mute after his (cancelvoted) kickvote against moose.
Title: Re: Admin Abuse and Harassment on 1.2 Server
Post by: Relish on July 05, 2010, 02:38:50 am
Before we begin, I would like to stress that I am not the leader of GT. I am the co-founder of our great and glorious clam, but I hold no sway over the clam legions and they are to act as they wish in regards to server rules. However, under these circumstances I can speak for GT.

First, a dissection of your post:

Quote
This guy GT-Moose-stach was trolling me all day. The rest of GT clan joined in and ganged up on me.

Unfortunate behavior. I do not condone this, and I wouldn't expect such behavior from junior admins. Adjustments have been made to the admin levels of those involved, but again, you could have prevented this through the usage of the /ignore function. This is the first thing anyone being trolled should do, and is critical when considering the proceeding turn of events:

Quote
GT-Moose-stach called 2 kick votes against me and both failed and he later tked me twice for no reason. He said it was for bleeding in which he was lying.

Your provided evidence shows nothing of this. Where is the condump? We will have to wait for Tremstats to update and provide a game log, but if they were teamkilling you, why wouldn't you take a screenshot of that? Only the very last one shows a teamkill, but without proper context. We don't even know if you were shooting anyone.

Quote
I called a kick vote against him and GeeTee-Honest Abe canceled it. I named my self GT-Attention Whore because they were spamming. So I started spamming too. I was muted by GeeTee-Honest Abe for spamming.

This is where everything goes downhill. When these people are clearly harassing you, why did you not ignore them, or ask the other admins for help? Klepto was on, and I'm sure some others too. To make things worse, you responded in a negative fashion. Just to clarify, the command is /ignore, followed by a name.

Quote
I'm generally a quiet person but I can only take so much and I start to fight back. Thank you for looking.

No, you do not fight back. You ignore or ask another admin for help. This does not help portray you in a sympathetic light. The admin lists have been updated, but remember: you are responsible for your own actions just as much as the other involved parties.

Have fun.

You "responsible people" tell people to never fight back and hit the ignore button, but that is not how most people think.  When someone is screaming at you and calling you a fucktard in real life what do you do?  Ignore them?  With earplugs.  No, you either punch them in the face or expose their inner douchebag through speach.  Don't blame people for putting down provokers and defending themselves.  Remember that most people are not so patient as to do what you suggest.
Title: Re: Admin Abuse and Harassment on 1.2 Server
Post by: mooseberry on July 05, 2010, 07:54:06 am
One small flaw with your logic... this actually isn't real life. It's a video game, and ignoring people will not get you hurt at all.
Title: Re: Admin Abuse and Harassment on 1.2 Server
Post by: Relish on July 05, 2010, 07:59:20 am
One small flaw with your logic... this actually isn't real life. It's a video game, and ignoring people will not get you hurt at all.

Obviously you wouldn't punch someone in the face but you would of course yell/do something back because most people (at least me) can't live with themself knowing that I let someone put me down.
Title: Re: Admin Abuse and Harassment on 1.2 Server
Post by: mooseberry on July 05, 2010, 09:24:40 am
One small flaw with your logic... this actually isn't real life. It's a video game, and ignoring people will not get you hurt at all.

Obviously you wouldn't punch someone in the face but you would of course yell/do something back because most people (at least me) can't live with themself knowing that I let someone put me down.

To be honest that sounds more like personal self-esteem issues. If you have confidence and maturity you know, who gives a fuck? Some person you've never met said some dumb thing to you. It bears no control on how you really are (unless you rise to it) and why should you care. Be mature and don't continue insults, it's stupid really, and shows probable self confidence lack and maturity lack if you "can't live" knowing you let someone put you down.

Summery: It's a game, WHO GIVES A FUCK someone called you an idiot?
Title: Re: Admin Abuse and Harassment on 1.2 Server
Post by: your face on July 05, 2010, 05:59:54 pm
When someone calls me an idiot ingame I like to call him an idiot back.  Ignoring is for sissy-boys.  Just sayin', the guy's got a point.
Title: Re: Admin Abuse and Harassment on 1.2 Server
Post by: CreatureofHell on July 06, 2010, 10:05:00 am
When someone calls me an idiot ingame I like to call him an idiot back.  Ignoring is for sissy-boys.  Just sayin', the guy's got a point.

I let my face do all the work  8)  >:(  :o  :-\  ;)  8)
Title: Re: Admin Abuse and Harassment on 1.2 Server
Post by: _Equilibrium_ on July 07, 2010, 04:11:05 am
The fact you started wearing their tag doesn't help you at all...that would tick me off myself.
To be honest, it seemed to me that GT let anyone in anyway, which is why they're having all these complaints in the first place. I've also seen some GT members act like jackholes before as well. Not all of them, as some are actually quite mature and respectful. However, as it seems they don't don't use any filters when considering members, they were bound to get some bad apples.
Title: Re: Admin Abuse and Harassment on 1.2 Server
Post by: Conzul on July 07, 2010, 04:22:45 am
The fact you started wearing their tag doesn't help you at all...that would tick me off myself.
To be honest, it seemed to me that GT let anyone in anyway, which is why they're having all these complaints in the first place. I've also seen some GT members act like jackholes before as well. Not all of them, as some are actually quite mature and respectful. However, as it seems they don't don't use any filters when considering members, they were bound to get some bad apples.

Do you like the color green?
Are you friend to Granger?
Would you like to get firm?
Code: [Select]
if (answer == true)
    GT.addmember(name,firmlevel);
    cout << "Congratulations, you're in GT! I'll put you on our roster!";
return 0;

However, when I joined, they were not asking these questions till they had observed the prospective member to get working gist of them.
Title: Re: Admin Abuse and Harassment on 1.2 Server
Post by: your face on July 07, 2010, 05:55:21 am
GT's main point in tremulous: horde as many random people as possible until 99% of trem's playerbase is GT.
Title: Re: Admin Abuse and Harassment on 1.2 Server
Post by: CorSair on July 07, 2010, 04:02:02 pm
GT's main point in tremulous: horde as many random people as possible until 99% of trem's playerbase is GT.
Doesn't work for me. :)
Title: Re: Admin Abuse and Harassment on 1.2 Server
Post by: Tokai on July 07, 2010, 07:59:27 pm
The fact you started wearing their tag doesn't help you at all...that would tick me off myself.
To be honest, it seemed to me that GT let anyone in anyway, which is why they're having all these complaints in the first place. I've also seen some GT members act like jackholes before as well. Not all of them, as some are actually quite mature and respectful. However, as it seems they don't don't use any filters when considering members, they were bound to get some bad apples.

They even let me in HAHAHAHAHAHA!!! So I can now wear the tag ROFL!!! Even though it's not their server, er um I mean our server LMAO!!!


<3 Jim|Beam

Oh BTW, GT stands for Gay Trolls IMO. Have a nice day and thanks for looking.   ;D
Title: Re: Admin Abuse and Harassment on 1.2 Server
Post by: Conzul on July 07, 2010, 10:36:03 pm
The fact you started wearing their tag doesn't help you at all...that would tick me off myself.
To be honest, it seemed to me that GT let anyone in anyway, which is why they're having all these complaints in the first place. I've also seen some GT members act like jackholes before as well. Not all of them, as some are actually quite mature and respectful. However, as it seems they don't don't use any filters when considering members, they were bound to get some bad apples.

They even let me in HAHAHAHAHAHA!!! So I can now wear the tag ROFL!!! Even though it's not their server, er um I mean our server LMAO!!!


<3 Jim|Beam

Oh BTW, GT stands for Gay Trolls IMO. Have a nice day and thanks for looking.   ;D

***Sigh *** I think it's time for Conzul to find a new clan.
Title: Re: Admin Abuse and Harassment on 1.2 Server
Post by: your face on July 07, 2010, 10:37:21 pm

***Sigh *** I think it's time for Conzul to find a new clan.

*Ahem*

NoS does happen to be recruiting!

xD
Title: Re: Admin Abuse and Harassment on 1.2 Server
Post by: Deadbeat Engineer on July 07, 2010, 10:47:18 pm
***Sigh *** I think it's time for Conzul to find a new clan.

I've sort of been thinking the same thing, but GT makes it more fun...
Title: Re: Admin Abuse and Harassment on 1.2 Server
Post by: Conzul on July 07, 2010, 11:01:09 pm
***Sigh *** I think it's time for Conzul to find a new clan.

I've sort of been thinking the same thing, but GT makes it more fun...

I've just quit. Don't get me wrong, GT was great when they recruited me. I just think that the day of their firmness has past.
Title: Re: Admin Abuse and Harassment on 1.2 Server
Post by: kharnov on July 07, 2010, 11:59:23 pm
***Sigh *** I think it's time for Conzul to find a new clan.

I've sort of been thinking the same thing, but GT makes it more fun...

I've just quit. Don't get me wrong, GT was great when they recruited me. I just think that the day of their firmness has past.

Wait, what? We never recruited Tokai.
Title: Re: Admin Abuse and Harassment on 1.2 Server
Post by: mooseberry on July 08, 2010, 02:21:36 am

***Sigh *** I think it's time for Conzul to find a new clan.

*Ahem*

NoS does happen to be recruiting!

xD

Sorry, this thread is about admin abuse, not clan recruitment.
Title: Re: Admin Abuse and Harassment on 1.2 Server
Post by: your face on July 08, 2010, 04:00:11 am

***Sigh *** I think it's time for Conzul to find a new clan.

*Ahem*

NoS does happen to be recruiting!

xD

Sorry, this thread was about admin abuse, not clan recruitment.

fix'd
Title: Re: Admin Abuse and Harassment on 1.2 Server
Post by: Conzul on July 08, 2010, 04:26:53 am

***Sigh *** I think it's time for Conzul to find a new clan.

*Ahem*

NoS does happen to be recruiting!

xD

Sorry, this thread is about admin abuse, not clan recruitment.

 :police:
Title: Re: Admin Abuse and Harassment on 1.2 Server
Post by: ziplocpeople on July 09, 2010, 08:11:35 am
Just so you know, tokai's long gone from our roster Conzul >.>
Title: Re: Admin Abuse and Harassment on 1.2 Server
Post by: BlackX32 on July 17, 2010, 12:10:28 am
This clan shit is just why I don't join them. They cause major problems. In thisother game I played before Trem I joined a clan. Became 5th in charge within a week. And no not because of skill but because the clan was falling apart and they need somebody for disciplinary action. Well that was my job. Next thing I know about 2 weeks later the clan is in pieces because people were being stupid, not listening to me or heeding my warnings. About a day after the downfall I get chunked into 1st position. I quit after the leader came back saying that clan was merging. That's why I don't join clans anymore. Sure they offer more protection the real protection can only come from yourself. I wouldn't mind helping a clan with a fight at all, or even a war but no joining because of the shit.
Title: Re: Admin Abuse and Harassment on 1.2 Server
Post by: Conzul on July 17, 2010, 03:51:13 pm
Srsly not all clans are like that, only the worst cases. It's all about who you let in.