Tremulous Forum
General => General Discussion => Topic started by: chompers on July 23, 2006, 10:33:00 pm
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Just curious if people here would be interested in contributing to some sort of tutorial demo project?
The way it would work, you'd need a group of people to play several scripted games, one or two others in spectator mode recording it. There'd also be someone in-game named 'Tutorial' who's job would be to say certain lines at certain times, probably using a series of binds.
Ideally, there'd be someone with demo editing / machinima skills to cut the whole thing together, or at least someone willing to learn the tools.
Plus a few people to write the scripts for the different tutorials, and you'd probably need some manager type to schedule and organise everything, and keep everyone informed.
As for the scripted games... there's a whole lot of things in trem to cover, here's some ideas to start off:
The basics: using the armory, the weapons & items, classes, booster and other buildings, basic traps and defenses, show stage 1 - 3 for each team.
Human Building: show some bad bases getting worked by aliens, and some good bases in action.
Human base moving: show a well orchestrated move, and also a half-assed move getting broken by aliens. Show effective use of say_team.
Effects of Feeding vs. Ramboing vs. Co-ordinated assault.
Alien Building: LOL trapper goes where? Forward boosters etc...
Using the Alien classes effectively.
Maybe something on griefer ettiquette and callvotes.
So, who would be up for something like that? It could end up being a fairly major undertaking, but it would be worthwhile to have a series of tutorial demos so that UnnamedPlayer knows how to trade in his helmet for a BSuit and is less likely to accidentally decon the armory.
Please post if you'd like to contribute and what you'd like to do. I'd be in as a player or the Tutorial text spammer guy, and could probably help with writing scripts, as well as maybe setting up bind files for people to deliver the scripted text in game.
EDIT
Nosfore has set up a wiki so that everyone can contribute scripts and other ideas. Here is the link: http://tremulousdemo.pbwiki.com/
This is a community project, not something for just one or two people to write, so Go to the wiki now! Have your Say! Do your Part! Make History!
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P.S. The end result would be .dm format demo files, not video files, so they'd be small enough that they could possibly be included in the next release, and could even run off the main menu- that is, if Timbo and the other dev's think it's a worthwhile idea.
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Sounds good to me - sign me up. I'm not much of a builder, but I can handle all of the weapons and alien classes (with poss exception of basilisk) very well.
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Might be nice if people recording (including the tutorial guy who should be recording as well), had pretty good system specs, and wherever this was done is not prone to lag.... i'm not exactly sure how editing demo files would go though..
Suggested additional topics -
Blocking (show to watch out for bigger aliens because they can't get around you/ get on the walls ceiling).
How get get a better gun :roll: .
Explain stages.
Don't get too deep into strategy.. just enough where they can go in and play the game without asking 1000 questions and causing trouble.
EDIT: If i'm around (I only play during certain times during the week) I'd be up for some of the filler stuff.. such as if you need to demonstrate feeding, or show a human getting wasted by an acid tube...
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Count the SATGNU crew in, we already toyed with this idea. We even toyed with the idea of holding open Tutorial nights on SATGNU, for new players willing to learn.
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Brillant idea.
There should be some amusing parts too, such as people going out and tyrants dropping on their heads, ect. :>
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Brillant idea.
There should be some amusing parts too, such as people going out and tyrants dropping on their heads, ect. :>
Easter egg bloopers video with staged bloopers... lol
or maybe it could be unlockable for someone who bothered to watch all of them.
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Id like to join as well, and I think the rest of the }MG{ team would probably like to do this as well. I have been long thinking about making some form of interactive tutorial... but I don't want to have to script AI for on :P so using human actors sounds like a good alternative. This also lets me get my feet wet in some machinima... something I have really been wanting to try out (we can even make a trem movie some day). Will you, chompers, teach us how to use the tools to work with these demo files?
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count me in as a player, I'm good with about any class, not great with the basi tho...
you can contact me using msn or email: vhpieter[at]gmail[dot]com (I don't like spamcrawlers)
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Will you, chompers, teach us how to use the tools to work with these demo files?
Nope, I've never been involved with machinima before either.
There was talk of a trem machinima on this board earlier, so hopefully someone here knows what the deal is with q3 demo files. I remember something called "film at 11" that could edit demo files, but that was back in the quake 1 days.. I did a quick google on it just now, and couldn't cant find anything as yet for the quake 3 engine.
Hopefully someone here knows more about this.
Worst case scenario I guess is running the demos through fraps then using a video editor. If we go this route, I can publish the end result in flash, but it would be much better to have edited demo files if at all posible, or if we're slick enough in game - unedited demo files.
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Hey, at least give me some credit for thinking up the tutorial idea :P If the game had a good enough trigger system, I'd be making a map for this purpose.
Anyway, credit aside (not actually a big deal, just felt like making it look like one >_>), I'd be willing to help with the scripting of it. I could write out the whole scripts (tutorial text dialogs, actor actions, etc) for the base building tutorials.
Also, to have some kind of audio, maybe we could have Microsoft Narrator narrating the tutorial dialogs? Either that, or someone could actually record themselves saying them, and someone else could splice the audio properly. (I could do audio editing in that case)
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Yes of course, full credit and kudos to Rippy for mentioning a tutorial map, and I'm glad you're willing to turn your attention this way instead of pursuing the tutorial map, because somethnig like this will need all the help it can get. The project co-ordinator spot is open if you want it. (I sure don't ;) )
Still haven't found anything in the way of quake 3 demo editors, closest I could find was ARGUS. I think maybe there never was one for quake 3 engine, which will make things harder.
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I'd volunteer if I hadn't accidently broken Tremulous.
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I'm glad you're willing to turn your attention this way instead of pursuing the tutorial map, because somethnig like this will need all the help it can get.
Its too bad though that something couldn't be figured out... because a tutorial map is more interactive.. and people tend to learn and be more interested in that sort of thing.... stupid radiant.... you can always go make thorn's disco map for him!.. or maybe the video could even use a generic map or 2?
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I'm glad you're willing to turn your attention this way instead of pursuing the tutorial map, because somethnig like this will need all the help it can get.
Its too bad though that something couldn't be figured out... because a tutorial map is more interactive.. and people tend to learn and be more interested in that sort of thing.... stupid radiant.... you can always go make thorn's disco map for him!.. or maybe the video could even use a generic map or 2?
That's what I think.. it's just so much easier to learn when you're actually doing it. You also remember better. It really is a shame.
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You guys are forgetting one important fact. Idiots are always idiots no matter what you do for them. The people that want to be good will at least browse the documentation and idiots WON'T - whether it's a video or a doc.
It sounds like a noble project but face it - you dont have to be a rocket scientist to play. A little reading, a little button mashing, and you have the tools to be decent.
Today I saw an idiot ask everyone how to evolve. He couldnt even read Q=Evolve ON HIS OWN SCREEN!!
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I think that the benefits of an interactive tute would only apply to the most basic elements of the game though, learning to use the armory for example.
You could do a map like that, there are triggers to detect if you have certain weapons or equipment and there are triggers to print messages and so forth. You'd have to destroy eggs or telenodes etc. for points, you couldnt show stage 2 or 3 though, at least not in the current version.
But Tremulous is all about teamwork, and you can't learn that in a single player tutorial. Some short demos of things like base moves going wrong, or dretches feeding to stage three in front of turrets could show a hell of a lot, especially with a running commentary on what mistakes are being made.
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Count me in. I can build for aliens realitivly well, and play as them too (although im not exactly a killing machine).
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Count me in also, im l33t and usually have 90-125 fps :)
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I would love to. Though I am not the best player as alien, I totally rock socks as human. Please PM me if I can help in any way..
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Oh, and I forgot to mention what I can do....I can either be a spectator (boring, but I can), or I could be someone who demonstrates stuff, ie how to trade in at armoury, how to use a lucy (lol, newbs+lucy=pain and destruction.....)
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I dont think is need good conexion or good machine to play as "actor" on this "film".
I guest the devs can able a tiny "demo browser" :
Play
Tutorial ->
Mods
Quit
..you press tutorial...
* Tutorial *
Aliens: how to play as dretch
Aliens: how to evolve, fight
Humans: human gameplay
Advanced tutorial: humans building, turrets
Advanced tutorial: alien buildings, acid & trappers
whatever
Even short films (short demos) can help. For a tutorial music can help, and the dynamics sould be fast, or will be boring. The most important, Imho, is "Have fun doing!". I guest the people here is perfect to do that work.
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I would say the available tutorials would be:
Tremulous overview: Describes the extreme basics of game mechanics, stage advancement, credits/EP gaining, etc.
Alien overview: describes the basic pros and cons of each alien evo and structure.
Humans: an alien perspective: Talks about how to combat human weapons, armour and structures.
Human overview: describes the basic pros and cons of each human upgrade and structure.
Aliens, a human perspective: Talks about how to combat alien evos and structures.
Other than that, I don't think any more tutorials would be required. The rest is more advanced stuff. All newbies really need to know is how to use humans/aliens, combat enemies, and build a proper base. Base moving, things like that, are best learned when watching them in a game. You don't NEED them to play, so a tutorial video wouldn't really be necessary.
(maybe each overview could be split into two, instead having one about how to properly build for each team, and one about using the upgrades of each team.)
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There should also be some alien movement obstacle course. Possibly an egg and overmind that cannot be deconstructed (out of reach for granger) in a spawning room with teleports leading to each course. When you pass through the teleport, you get enough evo to evolve into the proper class and when you finish each course, there will be teleport to the next course that will give you just enough evo to evolve to the next class. There should be:
Basic wallwalking - big open area with a narrow bridge that goes upside down and sideways and when you go too far to the edge (like on ATCS when you touch the blue forcefield outside), you'll fall into bottomless abyss like the one on uncreation.
Advanced wallwalking - the bridge will have lots of crap on it you'll have to wallwalk over and if you do it wrong, you'll fall. There should also be something to make you do the course as fast as possible, for example some closing door that will reopen when you return to the starting point of the course again.
Marauder walljumping - first some vertical shaft climbing (like when you have to climb out from underground on tremor) and then some walljump-only movement (another bottomless abyss with just walls to bounce from, no floor or ceiling).
Dragoon pouncing - you'll pounce between small platforms, if you miss, you die, again with some time limit.
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There should also be some alien movement obstacle course. Possibly an egg and overmind that cannot be deconstructed (out of reach for granger) in a spawning room with teleports leading to each course. When you pass through the teleport, you get enough evo to evolve into the proper class and when you finish each course, there will be teleport to the next course that will give you just enough evo to evolve to the next class. There should be:
Basic wallwalking - big open area with a narrow bridge that goes upside down and sideways and when you go too far to the edge (like on ATCS when you touch the blue forcefield outside), you'll fall into bottomless abyss like the one on uncreation.
Advanced wallwalking - the bridge will have lots of crap on it you'll have to wallwalk over and if you do it wrong, you'll fall. There should also be something to make you do the course as fast as possible, for example some closing door that will reopen when you return to the starting point of the course again.
Marauder walljumping - first some vertical shaft climbing (like when you have to climb out from underground on tremor) and then some walljump-only movement (another bottomless abyss with just walls to bounce from, no floor or ceiling).
Dragoon pouncing - you'll pounce between small platforms, if you miss, you die, again with some time limit.
The only problem with tht is the time limit. Newbies have extreme difficulty with aliens (most do, anyways), and a time limit would just make them mad. They should have the option of time limit, or none at all.
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The only problem with tht is the time limit. Newbies have extreme difficulty with aliens (most do, anyways), and a time limit would just make them mad. They should have the option of time limit, or none at all.
You can always make several exits labeled "n00b" that would not close, "average" that would close slowly and "1337" that would close fast to let only really skilled players through.
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Great idea!
Count me in!
I may be contacted at fbolduc at hotmail dot com.
Maybe we could play with the demo script on a Wiki?
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If you guys get around to making this I'd be happy to do the voice over for the tutorial. Just send me a script.
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If you guys get around to making this I'd be happy to do the voice over for the tutorial. Just send me a script.
yay!
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btw I was thinking of converting one of the existing maps to an interactive tutorial map plus it would contain some parts of the manuals showing alien human models
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Maybe we could play with the demo script on a Wiki?
Also a great idea. Set us up the wiki Nosfore!
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You can find the wiki at:
http://tremulousdemo.pbwiki.com/
its a free Wiki host I found feeling lucky on google.com
Feel free to edit as you see fit.
The password is: timbo
We like Timbo.
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Ok, how do we know when it is time for us to participate? I assume you will get back to us with more details.......oh, and this Saturday, the 29, I can't do anything because my siter is finally getting married. It's cool....please PM me to tell me when I can be of any assistance.
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hmmm sounds very interesting. i could probably be one of the humans or aliens teaching everything =p
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Who the heck are all you people?
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We might as well ask you the same.
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We might as well ask you the same.
I suppose he's {SGA}Terroreast from AKKA
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People!, start filling the script on the wiki, please. Its still a stub.
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People!, start filling the script on the wiki, please. Its still a stub.
Indeed. That is why we need everybody's input.Sign your name and start adding/removing/changing the wiki. There are sections on the Wiki in need of more detailed information that anybody can fill.
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Chompers,
could you put the link and password for the Wiki on your first post. Thus, it'll be easier to find.
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Are we talking about serious AI programming here or just very basic linear?
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Serious AI programming?
No, we want to record demo files. Game replays.
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I'll be looking forward to it. :)
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Are we talking about serious AI programming here or just very basic linear?
Nothing to do with AI.
The script is the description of the scene, and the dialogue lines of actors.
:D
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Well, I've never written a script before, but I've read a few. So, I made a start on the script for 'Introduction' to get the ball rolling:
http://tremulousdemo.pbwiki.com/DemoEvent1
I hope more people want to contribute to scripting these, it's fun, but it can be pretty time consuming.
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ill try to contribute, ill do aliens starter
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I could script one.....thogh there is no way I could get it all done in one sitting. Are we aloud to inject humour?
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Yes, as long as it's not time consuming. A little humour might make the process more entertaining.
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I have added basic navigation to the wiki.
I have also added more granularity on how topics will be worked on.
I will try to add as much topics as possible tonight, so that people can start adding text.
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i have added some of the introduction, if u would place my name on the list
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Reading this reminds me.. whoever does the announcing/text needs to be able to type quickly and without typos.
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I might be able to do that, we'll see.
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i have added some of the introduction, if u would place my name on the list
I have added you to the list, though I can't seem to find what you have added.
Feel free to modify anyting you want. The more people contribute, the better this will be.
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I might be able to do that, we'll see.
Or use specially crafted config files with text already mapped to specific keys.
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I took the leisure of revising the script for the first event a bit. Anybody to improve it?
Also, we are still looking for someone to host the sathurday event.
Anybody running a server?
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:o
I don't know how to do that :(
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:o
I don't know how to do that :(
There are great example on this forum. Lets have a look and update the wiki with some ideas.
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o next to my name in volenteers, put pre porduction, ill be doing alot of script writing
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i have written everything below where humans intro ends btw
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o next to my name in volenteers, put pre porduction, ill be doing alot of script writing
My friend, the principle of Wiki is that everyone can modify it. That includes, you.
Go to the volonteer page, click "Edit this page".
Fill in your Nickname, and optionally e-mail.
The password is: timbo (you can find it on the main page if forgotten)
So revise the first script or start writing your own on the wiki.
Also note that there is a wonderfull feature at the bottom of the page. It is called "All Changes". Click it and you'll see a list of recent changes. You can click on the red dot to see what actually was changed. Pure usefullness!
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Heh, I can see that writing the actual scripts in a wiki might be every bit as frustrating as trying to build a human base when everyone has their own ideas on where to put everything.
I want to revert it back to the old version that was written in SCRIPT FORMAT. There was pacing and structure in my edit, and it made sense... I mean, how does human fighter #2 afford a chaingun after killing one dretch, and why does he painsaw rush if he can afford a chaingun?
Oh well, I will leave it alone for now and see what happens.
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I edited the script in order to reduce its conceptual content. I never gave thought about the credit issue... I always had in mind we would start witch enough cash the shooting.
Is the cost of equipement an essential topic?
I mean, when you are acquainted to the fact that you must go to the armoury to get a new gun, you should be able to figure out yourself. There is a well explained menu with prompts.
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Raumkraut: Thanks for correcting my mistakes. It is equipment and not "equipement". You are right! Being almost bilingual has downsides.
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PROBLEM DETECTED!!!
Will the dem file still work will the newer versions of Tremulous?
If not, will be need to make avi's before that, or force the dev's to backward support that videos :I , or update the dem files for new tremulous versions (maybe the better idea).
note:
Heh, I can see that writing the actual scripts in a wiki might be every bit as frustrating as trying to build a human base when everyone has their own ideas on where to put everything..
Indeed. The game as the console to sync ideas, and this wiki has this forum for discussion (or irc, or msn, or etc..)
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PROBLEM DETECTED!!!
Will the dem file still work will the newer versions of Tremulous?
:eek:
I hope so... We need guidance.
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Nosfore- no, the cost thing is not essential at all, it's just one example of an internal logical consistency that was in my draft that might not have been apparent, and isn't in the current draft. Another example is keeping the tutorial speaker the same player as the camera, since the position of the camera can not be seen by the Tutorial speaker, it will be easier to cue everything that way.
On cueing - ideally we will release them as .dm files rather than converting to video, and it looks like there aren't the demo editors for q3 that are used for editing machinima, so that means everything has to go right in a single take from the moment we start recording to the end of the demo - there's no swapping cameras from one location to another, but the camera can spectate through various players - but even there we should know the exact order that the spectator camera will cycle through the players.
Teiman that is a very good point, they will most likely have to be recorded in the same build as the next release, and will probably only work for that release.
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Nosfore- no, the cost thing is not essential at all, it's just one example of an internal logical consistency that was in my draft that might not have been apparent, and isn't in the current draft. Another example is keeping the tutorial speaker the same player as the camera, since the position of the camera can not be seen by the Tutorial speaker, it will be easier to cue everything that way.
About logical consistency: I think it is an encumbering thing to carry on. How does that help to learn the game?
About the tutorial speaker: You are right. We should change that.
Also, after reading your post I have reworked the Goals and Limitations of the Script in the wiki. I think that if we are to work together, we need to agree on this. Could you have a look at it or change it for something better?
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Ok, im reading the basic's script, and i cant help notice you are leaving out some very good and important facts about the weaponry and evolution classes.
Is the basic's script supposed to leave out these facts, and leave the facts to an "advanced tactics" script, or just left out entirely for the player to figure out each weapons/evolutions disadvantage?
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My opinion is that we should not attempt to explain everything.
Not only because it would be tedious and open to interpretation, but also because a demo presentation should not be long nor boring. It should be quick and effective enough to give the new players the most basic principles.
The rest they can discover by themselves.
However, an Advanced Tactics scene would be interesting.
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Nosfore, in that specific instance of the chaingun, it helps by preventing "Hey, I just killed a dretch, how come I can't buy a chaingun, like I saw in the tutorial?" In general, keeping the tutorials close to the game where possible will prevent people inferring erroneous things from them.
Also, on keeping the demos as short as 30 seconds, I am of the opinion that the more we can cram into each demo the better. Consider that you have to load up a map to see a demo, would you rather load 10 maps to watch a series of 30 second shorts, or watch a single 5 minute crash-course jam packed with info?
That was some of the reasoning behind the original script - it layered the game fundamentals with weapon and class fundamentals while not straying too far from a real game scenario, the builder switched to blaster while the armory built, the rifle guy saved him from a dretch, then used the armory, this is stuff that happens all the time, and it was a nice example of effective teamwork, which is something the tutorials really need to reinforce.
I can't complain, it was left unfinished so it's little suprise it was alterred, I guess I just would have preferred to see it expanded upon, rather than being changed into something less informative for reasons I don't understand. Maybe I shouldn't have posted a script until at least the whole scene was set out, but of course, I was too keen to get the ball rolling.
This all does point out one important issue, which is that maybe we should set down what each 'episode' deals with, for all episodes, before we start writing any of them, otherwise we'll be working with different goals.
Anyway, I'll go now and have another read through where it's at so far...
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Nosfore, in that specific instance of the chaingun, it helps by preventing "Hey, I just killed a dretch, how come I can't buy a chaingun, like I saw in the tutorial?" In general, keeping the tutorials close to the game where possible will prevent people inferring erroneous things from them.
I get your point now. And it made me realize that erroneous inference is a thing we should avoid. It should be another goal for the script.
You are right, again!
Also, on keeping the demos as short as 30 seconds, I am of the opinion that the more we can cram into each demo the better. Consider that you have to load up a map to see a demo, would you rather load 10 maps to watch a series of 30 second shorts, or watch a single 5 minute crash-course jam packed with info?
When opinions diverges, it's a good thing to make them agree on advantages, disadvantages.
Separating into chapters have advantages:
1- Its easier to script and film.
2- Its easier to understand the concepts when they are treated separately.
3- You can choose where to start. As I understand it, the demo files have no fast-forward feature.
It has also disadvantages:
-You seem to make a point about loading time. Loading a map takes a maximum of 10 seconds (as far as my computer is concerned, and its not the best). So a ratio of 30 seconds demo versus 10 seconds load time is not ideal.
I would very much like your input on this.
That was some of the reasoning behind the original script - it layered the game fundamentals with weapon and class fundamentals while not straying too far from a real game scenario, the builder switched to blaster while the armory built, the rifle guy saved him from a dretch, then used the armory, this is stuff that happens all the time, and it was a nice example of effective teamwork, which is something the tutorials really need to reinforce.
Teamwork. Teamwork. Teamwork.
We should have a part about Teamwork.
I can't complain, it was left unfinished so it's little suprise it was alterred, I guess I just would have preferred to see it expanded upon, rather than being changed into something less informative for reasons I don't understand. Maybe I shouldn't have posted a script until at least the whole scene was set out, but of course, I was too keen to get the ball rolling.
:oops:
I'm sorry if it broke your heart. I won't do it again, I promise!
This all does point out one important issue, which is that maybe we should set down what each 'episode' deals with, for all episodes, before we start writing any of them, otherwise we'll be working with different goals.
Indeed. I have begun working on it. Separating topics. Look at the "Game Mechanics" section.
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Haha, don't worry about my poor little heart, I'm not precious about these things. ;)
On the game mechanics wiki pages, it seems a bit too 'meta' to seperate them all out like that. Should be quite possible to set out a list of goals for each tutorial without resorting to seperate pages.
On 30 secs vs 5 minutes, I am sure we can reach some compromise there. It should be a function of the subject at hand, if it takes only 30 seconds to explain a particular thing then so be it, if it takes 5 minutes, then it takes 5 minutes. Of course, you are right that shorter scenarios will be easier to produce. The vision I have for the finished product is maybe 6 demos in total, with only one of those covering the basics. I am in favour of showing more advanced topics also, particularly the well coordinated human base move, that demo could even span two games, showing a move gone wrong that ends in an alien win after 2 minutes, and then a successfull move, probably to the center room on ATCS.
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On the game mechanics wiki pages, it seems a bit too 'meta' to seperate them all out like that. Should be quite possible to set out a list of goals for each tutorial without resorting to seperate pages.
Fixed.
On 30 secs vs 5 minutes, I am sure we can reach some compromise there. It should be a function of the subject at hand, if it takes only 30 seconds to explain a particular thing then so be it, if it takes 5 minutes, then it takes 5 minutes. Of course, you are right that shorter scenarios will be easier to produce.
Agreed.
Most basic concepts should be part of short demo.
Advanced concepts could be longer.
The vision I have for the finished product is maybe 6 demos in total, with only one of those covering the basics. I am in favour of showing more advanced topics also, particularly the well coordinated human base move, that demo could even span two games, showing a move gone wrong that ends in an alien win after 2 minutes, and then a successfull move, probably to the center room on ATCS.
I think we should really focus on doing it for the first time. A short one. Then we will be able to judge how long is too long.
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Yep I agree there, let's get one done and see. maybe the Introduction one is a bad place to start because it really is the one that requires the most scripting.
An easier place to start would be 'Kicking 10 kinds of ass with a Dretch'
Camera only needs to follow one dretch around and give some commentary on things like how much damage a headshot does, while the dretch rapes a bunch of humans.
I would like to hear from a dev about this. It would be pointless for us to do all this if there is no intention of including it in an official release, the target audience (ie. UnnamedPlayer) is not going to find it if it ends up as some video on YouTube or whatever. Plus there is the whole issue with demos working across different versions.
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Play
->Tutorial
Mod
About
The only Tremulous Developer that participated in this thread was Dolby. He seemed please with the idea and proposed to contribute for sound effects.
If, maybe, we had an endorsement from two Tremulous Developer we could consider that it is a viable project. Surely they have condition to impose: lenght, file size, colors, whatever.
I think the actual draft of the first script presenting Alien Evolving and Human Equipement could be done on our first run. It has many things we need to test, but is still short and easy.
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A little change in the script and game logic will no longer be violated :wink:
About response from devs, Timbo seems to be on vacation. We'll have to wait until he returns.
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Yes I saw what changes you made.
Good thinking. Good job.
If we are motivated enough, and find someone to host, we could have a sample of what we want to achieve before he gets back from vacation.
Who wants to host?
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Thought that was basically taken care of.
Count the SATGNU crew in, we already toyed with this idea. We even toyed with the idea of holding open Tutorial nights on SATGNU, for new players willing to learn.
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I might be able to do that, we'll see.
Or use specially crafted config files with text already mapped to specific keys.
If you can teach me to do that, I might be able to do it.
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Anyone with a decent home connection could host a server for this, it only needs to be up for a little while. I'll host it, if people don't mind the 350ish pings to Australia from just about anywhere else.
The config files will be simple enough, someone who already uses exec to load their binds should do it, so that nobody's binds are ruined in the process. You'll type something like /exec script1binds.cfg in console and it will replace binds, something like this:
bind 1 "say Welcome to Tremulous"
bind 2 "say This short tutorial should familiarize you with the game"
bind 3 "say Doh, I forgot my line..."
And so on, then in game it's as simple as pressing 1 - 2 - 3 at the right time.
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bind 1 "say_team SOMETHING"
bind 2 "say SOMETHING ELSE!!"
essentially
bind *KEY* "say(_team) TEXT"
team = your team.. obviously.. which might be neat for cues?
Someone needs to write a bind tutorial and sticky it..
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I've got something better, a shell script that will grep all announcer messages and make the config out of them :D
#! /bin/bash
# Convert Tremulous tutorial demo script to announcer say binds
if [ $# -lt 1 ] ; then
echo "Usage: $0 inputfile";
exit;
fi
cat $1 | grep -i 'announcer' | head -n 1 |
sed 's/^.*\(announcer\).*$/seta name "\1"/I';
cat $1 | grep -i 'announcer' | sed 's/^.*announcer:[[:blank:]]*//I' |
awk 'BEGIN { i = 1 } END { print "set asay" i " \"set asay vstr asay1\"" } { print "set asay" i " \"say "$0"; set asay vstr asay" ++i "\"" }';
echo "set asay \"vstr asay1\"";
echo "bind p \"vstr asay\"";
Required tools:
grep, head, GNU sed (it has case-insensitive regexp match extension used in the script), awk, cat, bash
Copy the demo script to some file, run this shell script on that file and redirect the output to Tremulous config file (eg. ~/.tremulous/base/announcer.cfg). Then run Tremulous, exec the config file (type '/exec announcer.cfg' without apostrophes into the game console) and then by repeatedly pressing P, you'll say each line. When another keypress doesn't say anything, you've said the last line and you'll start from the first line again by another keypress.
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Man that is awesome. Good Job!
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I want a part in this. :(
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#! /bin/bash
# Convert Tremulous tutorial demo script to announcer say binds
if [ $# -lt 1 ] ; then
echo "Usage: $0 inputfile";
exit;
fi
cat $1 | grep -i 'announcer' | head -n 1 |
sed 's/^.*\(announcer\).*$/seta name "\1"/I';
cat $1 | grep -i 'announcer' | sed 's/^.*announcer:[[:blank:]]*//I' |
awk 'BEGIN { i = 1 } END { print "set asay" i " \"set asay vstr asay1\"" } { print "set asay" i " \"say "$0"; set asay vstr asay" ++i "\"" }';
echo "set asay \"vstr asay1\"";
echo "bind p \"vstr asay\"";
You know what? I had exactly that in mind when I retyped the script. I took care to use the same orthograph in order to grep it easily. But this sed/awk thing is even better!
I'm amazed at how easy you can do things like that in a shell.
Not a single day do I regret ditching Windows.
Thanks a lot!
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I want a part in this. :(
Ready to shoot sathurday?
:P
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Shoot Saturday you mean?
And wtf is that?
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Shoot Saturday you mean?
And wtf is that?
I'll translate.
"Are you ready to record a scene this weekend on saturn's day?"
"Or maybe on sun's day?"
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Shoot Saturday you mean?
And wtf is that?
I'll translate.
"Are you ready to record a scene this weekend on saturn's day?"
"Or maybe on sun's day?"
:roll:
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I dont think anyone answered how we can make demo files of trem... Ill get to adding a script on the wiki for basic alien survival which covers a dretch's tactics:
-zig zagging
-turning around the prey, and attacking from side or back
-wall walking
-headshots
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So today is Sathursday the 29th... doesn't look like its ready.. buuut
IS THERE A TIME/PLACE?.. are we doing anything today?...
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I dont think we're ready to record just yet.
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I'm ready to at least try something today.
Anybody wanting to host this, post IP Address and Time.
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I've set up a server for the day to mess around on, doubt that we'll get a proper demo out today, but we'll see.
Server: Demo Project
IP: 203.214.139.251
Password: TootToot
Time: I dunno, let's say 11pm GMT, which is 40 mins from now...
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hey i dont know if this has gotten off the ground yet because i just joined but im great at editing and cutting video, i made tons of them in a game called americas army i used to play
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Can you edit demo files?
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someone can make the building tutorial alone. right?
We need more people only in weapon tut. :-?
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Well. It's too late for me to do anything I guess.
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Well. It's too late for me to do anything I guess.
Wrong.
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Unless you're gonna make your own map with trigger sounds, voice-overs would need to be replaced with typing. I think.
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I know you really want to have quake 3 demo files, but it looks to me like it would be much simpler to make actual videos.
You wouldn't need to worry about getting spectators in the right order, voiceover sounds etc.
When I first saw this idea I thought it would be a short video of does and don'ts, with big red crosses and green ticks :)
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I know you really want to have quake 3 demo files, but it looks to me like it would be much simpler to make actual videos.
You wouldn't need to worry about getting spectators in the right order, voiceover sounds etc.
When I first saw this idea I thought it would be a short video of does and don'ts, with big red crosses and green ticks :)
If you don't mind downloading 500MB installer instead of current 100MB one... An hour long demo takes about 10MB and it's resolution and details independent. Video of the same length will take 100MB in a very crappy quality and resolution.
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It is my opinion that the size argument is of the utmost importance.
Even many 10 minutes demo files seems too much for me.
I would prefer 5-6 demo files of 30-60 seconds each, broadly covering the basics of the basics of the basics of the game.
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I know why you want to use the demo files, and if you can do it, it is certainly a better system. I was just thinking of how difficult it would be to do anything complex.
Is there some kind of more adaptable format than .q3_dm? Or are there ways of doing more complicated things with .q3_dm?
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Well complex or simple are relatives of your level of expertise. To me video editing is complex, and bind files are simple. Anyway there can be 2 versions.
First a simple set of demos, then join all demos in a video, add fx, and music and use for promo purposes. People love videos, and there is youtube for hosting.
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So, who is ready for this sathurday's filming?
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Who ever said resolution/video quality are important? I dunno, if I were a new player I would be more interested in the skills the video teaches. I think voice overs are important because it will allow the viewers to process 2 things at once. They get commentary through their ears so their eyes can stay focused on the action. Reading the commentary would distract from the visual demonstration. We can try this both ways in the beginning, and have the trem community vote which method is most effective.
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Who ever said resolution/video quality are important? I dunno, if I were a new player I would be more interested in the skills the video teaches. I think voice overs are important because it will allow the viewers to process 2 things at once
Whas me. Can I change that for FUN and MUSIC?
Ok. Can be cool to have voices, but we also need text, not everybody understand english voices.
On something Quake based the people can be mostly from:
- UK, english native
- USA, english native
- Canada, english native
- Oz, english native
- Russia.
- Brasil ( & Portugal )
- Suramerica ( Chile, Argentina, Mexico, etc )
- Spain.
- Quevec.
As you see less than 61% speak english nativelly.
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Who ever said resolution/video quality are important? I dunno, if I were a new player I would be more interested in the skills the video teaches. I think voice overs are important because it will allow the viewers to process 2 things at once
Whas me. Can I change that for FUN and MUSIC?
Ok. Can be cool to have voices, but we also need text, not everybody understand english voices.
On something Quake based the people can be mostly from:
- UK, english native
- USA, english native
- Canada, english native
- Oz, english native
- Russia.
- Brasil ( & Portugal )
- Suramerica ( Chile, Argentina, Mexico, etc )
- Spain.
- Quevec.
As you see less than 61% speak english nativelly.
I want a speaker with a thick russian accent. Really I am not joking.
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Who ever said resolution/video quality are important? I dunno, if I were a new player I would be more interested in the skills the video teaches. I think voice overs are important because it will allow the viewers to process 2 things at once. They get commentary through their ears so their eyes can stay focused on the action. Reading the commentary would distract from the visual demonstration. We can try this both ways in the beginning, and have the trem community vote which method is most effective.
You can make a map with voiceover scripts for shooting demos. However, videos would take twice the size of the entire game if you'd want to actually see anything on the screen through compression artifacts. :roll: Damn, I'd exchange 10000 evo points for a simple version of Raven software Icarus scripting engine...
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Who ever said resolution/video quality are important? I dunno, if I were a new player I would be more interested in the skills the video teaches. I think voice overs are important because it will allow the viewers to process 2 things at once
Whas me. Can I change that for FUN and MUSIC?
Ok. Can be cool to have voices, but we also need text, not everybody understand english voices.
On something Quake based the people can be mostly from:
- UK, english native
- USA, english native
- Canada, english native
- Oz, english native
- Russia.
- Brasil ( & Portugal )
- Suramerica ( Chile, Argentina, Mexico, etc )
- Spain.
- Quevec.
As you see less than 61% speak english nativelly.
QueBec please! :evil:
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- Quevec.
As you see less than 61% speak english nativelly.
QueBec please! :evil:
Ooops!.. sorry nosfere! :D
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Haha, so QueBec is a country now eh? You seperatist >_>
Anyway, I think our only real option is to use demo files. To get comparable file size with video, we'd need complete crap resolution, 400 by 300 at the most, and that would make it impossible to see dretches.
As for the content, it's gotta be fairly general things. Like, the first couple videos would go over the basic techniques of each alien, and then each weapon. (i.e. basi grabbing, goon pounce-bite, mara jumping, etc) Then, 2 more, one about how to penetrate a human base, then how to penetrate an alien base.
But most importantly, how to BUILD an alien base, and a human base. Soooo many people need a demo like that.
Whether or not we have complete newbie demos, teaching things like how to use an armoury and how to evolve, is up to you guys to decide. But basically, the three major things to teach are using your class, attacking a base, and building a base, and those should be covered first imo. The extreme basics, like the function of each structure, are too simple to create an entire demo for. Just add instructions to finding the manual.
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I don't agree with you Rippy.
It is my opinion that the demos should be aimed for First-Time players.
Our goal is for them to be included in the game, right into the main menu.
Tutorial
Mod
Quit
[/list]
Our demos should cover everything a new player need to know in order to play its first game without being lost.
As for advanced topics like:
-Base Building techniques
-Alien Classes tactics
It could be done, but later. We need to cover the basics first. Then we'll see.
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I don't agree with you Rippy.
It is my opinion that the demos should be aimed for First-Time players.
Our goal is for them to be included in the game, right into the main menu.
Tutorial
Mod
Quit
[/list]
Our demos should cover everything a new player need to know in order to play its first game without being lost.
As for advanced topics like:
-Base Building techniques
-Alien Classes tactics
It could be done, but later. We need to cover the basics first. Then we'll see.
In all honestly, noone needs a video to explain to them how pressing q opens up the armoury menu. The "Tutorials" button would bring to you a page listing all the demos, and at the top would be a message saying "New to Tremulous? Open up the manual to learn the basics, before tackling the tutorial videos." (boldened text would be a link to the manual)
An "overview" demo would be in order, though, going over how Tremulous tends to work: how humans have strong buildings and ranged automated defenses, but tend to stay close to their base in order to recharge their hp and ammo, how aliens have weaker base defenses but have the speed and regeneration capabilities to be able to control the map, how their bases are easy to rebuild or move, etc etc etc.
-
As for advanced topics like:
-Base Building techniques
-Alien Classes tactics
It could be done, but later. We need to cover the basics first. Then we'll see.
So you are saying all we need is that first scene in the wiki :eek: ?
I really think some base building must be covered, since it is often new players who get curious and mess the base up. They should be shown some ettiquet like never deconstruct the reactor without team permission, and not making excessive telenodes or amro/medi copies.
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So you are saying all we need is that first scene in the wiki :eek: ?
No, I'm saying it must be the first we do.
It's easy, short and sweet. It'll be a good benchmark for advanced topics.
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In all honestly, noone needs a video to explain to them how pressing q opens up the armoury menu.
I must disagree. I've countlessly seen those questions from UnnamedPlayers.
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So nobody is available today?
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So nobody is available today?
server? also anounce it on IRC
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Well, we missed this week.
Next recording session is postponed to august 12.
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Ahm hey guys.
I also signed up for acting, but was away. Can somebody just briefly inform me what I have to do now?
Thank you
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Be ready for next Saturday.
If you can, find someone to host.
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Count me in... I think i am good with human but i suck with alien... So i can act for humans...
I can host smaller games too, and i think my sys is good enough to avoid lagg most of the time... (except of train station map...)
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Eagletooth"]
I can host smaller games too, and i think my sys is good enough to avoid lagg most of the time... (except of train station map...)
That is excellent news! Please post your host information on the wiki.
http://tremulousdemo.pbwiki.com
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Is it possible to e-mail all actors and people on the list so we know its comming and dont forget? If i missed anything, its probibly because i havent been reading the thread :\
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Is it possible to e-mail all actors and people on the list so we know its comming and dont forget? If i missed anything, its probibly because i havent been reading the thread :\
better use the irc?
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I can e-mail you all if you wish.
Write to fbolduc@hotmail.com with the topic "Tremulous Demo".
If you dont put topic "Tremulous Demo", you'll end-up in my junk-mail.
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failed again?
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Indeed.
I am not willing to spend more time on this if there are not enough people serious about getting it done.
If we are to make this demo, we need a better communication method.
I give a last chance to anybody willing to help making a demo to e-mail me to confirm it. You have untill Sunday August 20 at 23h59. Afther that, if there are not enough people, I'm abandonning this project.
e-mail me to confirm that you are interested at fbolduc@hotmail.com
Please put "Tremulous Demo" as the subject of you message. If you don't put "Tremulous Demo" as the subject, your message will be filtered in my junk-mail.
I will only consider people that actually send an e-mail to me, so don't bother stating it on the forum or the wiki.
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As of today, I have not received enough messages to ensure that the demo may be feasible. I am retiring myself from this project.
The wiki was closed.
If anybody want to restart this project in the future, please contact me, i'll consider helping you.
[to moderators: you may want to close this topic]
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:(
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I think the demo could be reformed to a video-tutorial project.
That way you could include more people (for the video editing and sound fx) and have more control over the output.
Shame that you abandoned the project, it looked promising.
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Im sorry about abondonning this... but I was away on vacation. I believe we should wait until the end of summer before we restart this, by then we wont be caught up in lengthy excursions.
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Video = big size was the problem..
Try again later!
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Video = big size was the problem..
Try again later!
The videos could be uploaded on youtube or googlevideo, that would solve the solve the hosting issues. And a tutorial video would be 2-3 mins. Which (at medium quality) could be around 10-15 mbs.
Most trem playes have a decent connection. So streaming videos (especially when you can pause and let them buffer) wouldn't be a problem.
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trem is more than 100mb
10mb is nothing compared.
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If you'll take a man who sucks at everything except strafing away from 'goons, jumping wildly with his marauder, and ALOT of building (far more then should be given to any single man!!! *sobs*) I'll do some writeups for you guys if you want. :)
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Most trem playes have a decent connection. So streaming videos (especially when you can pause and let them buffer) wouldn't be a problem.
Except with google video, you can't save it to the hard drive for later watching, a .dm file will be much smaller in size and can be saved to the hard disk.
I'm willing to help out if someone wants to continue this project, if noone wants to head up this thing I can. This was/is a goood Idea that shouldn't be hard to do, and it would be a good addition to Tremulous.
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Except with google video, you can't save it to the hard drive for later watching, a .dm file will be much smaller in size and can be saved to the hard disk.
http://videodl.org/
Still, a .dm file will indeed be much smaller but :
- it is difficult to use
- you cannot seek in the stream
- it will probably be unusable with a newer ( or older ) version of Tremulous
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I could be wrong, but doesn't youtube and Google video already support downloads of their shows? And even if they don't, there's easily a few extensions from Firefox that allow you to do so....