Tremulous Forum
Media => Mapping Center => Topic started by: nubcake on July 27, 2010, 07:20:49 am
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Basically copy/pasted from UrT/Q3 forums, who would be doing interested in doing a scene competition for trem?
RULES:
All work has to be your own (other than textures)
Aim: To take 1 single screenshot of the most epic/beautiful/awesome looking 'scene' of any genre/style in Tremulous
Tools: GtkRadiant, NetRadiant, Tremulous 1.1 ONLY. Basically anything that a user could download straight from a server and play. Includes custom textures/models etc. As Bloom doesnt come with tremulous, it cant be used.
Timeline: You have Until 11th August to post the screenshot in the thread titled: 'Scene Entrants'.
Judging: There will be a poll edited into the thread after that day which will be left up for 5 days, in which the public will be able to vote for you
-Alternate OR we can have a panel of 3 judges (who request to judge) to judge the work on
Technicality/10 - The percieved difficulty of the image given its appearance. e.g Cylinders, 3 point clipping, angled features, lighting effects etc
Creativity/15 - How original the idea or how unique the look is.
Detail/25 - How well it has been made. Is it realistic for the idea? E.g A cartoon scene doesnt need to look 'real' but its detail needs to suit its genre
Aesthetic quality/25 - How well the map flows together. Is it a bunch of stuff clumped together? Does it flow smoothly from one area to another? Does anything look odd or out of place?
Preference/25 - How that judge feels about the map. Deisregarding the above, does it look great? Do you prefer it to the others and why?
Entrants so far:
Nubcake
Amz181
Your Face
Aelita
Ingar
KnowItAll66
CreatureOfHell
N.O.S Brain
Judges so far:
Commander Scrooge
Kiwi
A Spork
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Bloom and bump mapping is an unfair advantage? If someone does not know how to do that, their picture probably won't look as good... they better learn then. I don't see an advantage in stifling ability.
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Some things for you to think about;
- Who's running it? (Please don't say your self)
- Incentive: Prizes? If so, who will supply?
- Judging: Who will judge? What will they judge based on?
- Proper set of rules
- Where should the images be uploaded too? (Forum or external host)
I would love to for the to be another mapping competition.
However personally I don't like the idea of a scene contest, as it could only really be valuable as a portfolio piece, but as there are so many newer engines most people wouldn't put include it in their portfolio.
An AMP mapping contest would be far more worthwhile and enjoyable in my opinion.
Another issue is that we don't have that many mappers (at least ones who'd be willing to partake), and only a few are of high caliber.
Khalsa's Mapping Comp for ref: http://tremulous.net/forum/index.php?topic=10319.30
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Bloom and bump mapping is an unfair advantage? If someone does not know how to do that, their picture probably won't look as good... they better learn then. I don't see an advantage in stifling ability.
Yes. Not every person has bloom and bump mapped models/modified engines. Therefore it is an unfair advantage to your average mapper.
Some things for you to think about;
- Who's running it? (Please don't say your self)
- Incentive: Prizes? If so, who will supply?
- Judging: Who will judge? What will they judge based on?
- Proper set of rules
- Where should the images be uploaded too? (Forum or external host)
I would love to for the to be another mapping competition.
However personally I don't like the idea of a scene contest, as it could only really be valuable as a portfolio piece, but as there are so many newer engines most people wouldn't put include it in their portfolio.
An AMP mapping contest would be far more worthwhile and enjoyable in my opinion.
Another issue is that we don't have that many mappers (at least ones who'd be willing to partake), and only a few are of high caliber.
Khalsa's Mapping Comp for ref: http://tremulous.net/forum/index.php?topic=10319.30
Well, I dont think you need prizes, and no one will likely give them out. If you need a prize as an incentive then this competition probably isnt for you.
This competition is very popular on UrT and Q3 forums so I dont understand why Tremulous should be any different. Also, you can have an AMP competition, but IMO wouldnt be any more worthwhile than a scene, because most (large majority) of servers dont support AMP anyways. Also a scene takes FAR less time to do than an entire map. As it would likely only be 1 room or area. Rules etc can be planned out once (if) there is some interest in getting it started to begin with
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You can't make rules after people start something. That's like playing a game and then changing the rules as you go, creating an unfair environment. You need rules so people can see if they want to play by your rules or not.
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You can't make rules after people start something. That's like playing a game and then changing the rules as you go, creating an unfair environment. You need rules so people can see if they want to play by your rules or not.
My experience is that 90% of competitions never go ahead anyways, so its important to gain interest and have people say 'yes'.
The only rules IMO should be the ones I have set out in my original post; 2 weeks, no extra effects.
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Bump mapping can be achieved just fine in stock 1.1 with no modifications.
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Ok. I can already see this is going to turn into a spam thread.
1) Only post if you want to join the competition (or are interested in it)
2) Regardless of rules its not that fucking hard to understand the objective and that theres 2 weeks to do it
3) You can do whetever you want so long as it is done with stock trem 1.1 (including bump mapping or w/e - so long as its done in 1.1)
4) If you are not interested dont post. Simple
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Seems like intresting idea. But i think i wont join :telenode:
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Can you enter screenshots from a work in progress?
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How about from something you've already made? :D
Please set forth more clear and defined rules.
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I like this. But I suck at mapping, so I probably won't enter. :laugh:
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I like this. But I suck at mapping, so I probably won't enter. :laugh:
Give it a shot! It's not like you've bet 100$ on winning... You may be one of the few participants, increasing the chances of it winning.
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Can you enter screenshots from a work in progress?
Sure why not.
How about from something you've already made? :D
Please set forth more clear and defined rules. Rules have been edited in my OP
Yes you can
I like this. But I suck at mapping, so I probably won't enter. :laugh:
You have 2 weeks to come up with any idea you like
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That's more like it (The updated OP). One entry per person? Also I feel any genre/theme is not such a good idea, it would be better to have a specific one as so to make judging/comparison easier. Alternatively recreating a screen shot or detailing a .map, could work.
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im guessing no ones in?
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sure count me in
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Sure! Don't expect anything good out of me though. I'm pretty shitty at everything Tremulous related.
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cool. ill update my op
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Also, I don't see it in the OP, but we aren't limited to our own maps?
Polls are a very biased way to judge, too. I would recommend judges, but I don't know where you would find them.
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Also, I don't see it in the OP, but we aren't limited to our own maps?
Polls are a very biased way to judge, too. I would recommend judges, but I don't know where you would find them.
Well.... anyone not in the comp want to judge? I might make another thread asking for judges. Also, yea all the work has to be your own (other than textures obviously)
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I think I'll join in based on those rules. :)
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I dont understand. Whats a scene? (in relation to trem)
Is it just something made that will occupy a single screenshot?
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Basically you make an epic looking screenshot. Can be anything artsy/fun etc. It is just a single screenshot which makes you go 'wow'.
Heres a couple of examples:
(http://img153.imageshack.us/img153/9478/shot0001i.jpg)
(http://cbp.beyondunreal.com/files/screenshots/evilmrfrank_dm-decay_1.jpg)
The last one was unreal tournament, but just an example. Make a scene or 'picture' using the tremulous engine. It doesnt require a map to be made, just something beautiful.
Ill add you to the comp creature
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I like the idea. If I can find the Trem map packs for MacRadiant again (Had to reinstall a while back) then I'll probably take part.
I assume it doesn't have to be a properly playable map, just a single view? As in, you wouldn't have to create anything that won't be visible in the submitted screenshot. Also, I know it's only a single scene, but 11th August seems like a fairly tight deadline, considering you've only just announced this.
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(http://cbp.beyondunreal.com/files/screenshots/evilmrfrank_dm-decay_1.jpg)
WHAT HOW ON EARTH?!? THAT AINT TREM!
The last one was unreal tournament,. . .
Oh...
The competition shouldnt start until you have judges...
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I like the idea. If I can find the Trem map packs for MacRadiant again (Had to reinstall a while back) then I'll probably take part.
I assume it doesn't have to be a properly playable map, just a single view? As in, you wouldn't have to create anything that won't be visible in the submitted screenshot. Also, I know it's only a single scene, but 11th August seems like a fairly tight deadline, considering you've only just announced this.
I suggested it 4 days ago :( Ok. Do we all agree on the 18 August then? Or stay the course till the 11th? Also I will find some judges very soon (pming people today, admins, team devs etc). Also yes, it is only for 1 screenshot so it doesnt need to be played (unless its soooooooo good that judges need to verify it as your own work)
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Four days really isn't a very long time. And I agree with Commander Scrooge that you should set any sort of time frame before you've even organised who's judging the competition.
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Well make a suggestion, I suggested the 18th which is almost 3 weeks. Keeping in mind you can also use w/e you have created for your maps anyways for just 1 pic. Anyways, make a suggestion
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I might join, if im able to make something in time (im a vewwy slow mappa).
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Count me in! :D (no, I won't team up with face unfairly this time ;) )
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Count me in! :D (no, I won't team up with face unfairly this time ;) )
:D Still have no chance though :-\
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Can i throw my name in!
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Updated OP with competitors
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Enter Ingar
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any word on the judges yet?
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Enter Ingar
The competition is killing me. :P
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I may put something together, so put me down.
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any word on the judges yet?
I pmed 6 people 4 days ago and only recieved 3 replies all saying no. :( If anyone wans to help out looking for judges then please do/ any suggestions? I mean its not that difficult they only need to judge a picture... No one on here is an expert AFAIK anyways so yeah..
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I'll Judge if you want.
Although I'll warn you, I'm gonna be pretty hit and miss with me actually being here...
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Sure, the more judges we have the better the average we can take. If you can find others would be great
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Out of curiosity, why are you using differing scales for each judging aspect?
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I think they are points/percents, so "Technicality" is not as "important" as "Detail" or Judge's preference (I highly disagree with the last one though)
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If you have a better alternative we'd be open to hearing it. The reason technicality is low is because the most techincal screen still may not look the best. If anyone has any alternative points system (imo the fairest) be glad to hear it. Also we need more judges!
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Technicality/20
Creativity/30
Detail/20
Aesthetic quality/30
or if you really want to keep the preference thing
Technicality/20
Creativity/25
Detail/20
Aesthetic quality/25
Preference/10
The reason technicality is low is because the most techincal screen still may not look the best.
Same thing apply to detail, the point is not to have as much as detail as possible, but to make it look good (no, that's doesn't have to be equal). Ergo max points in my proposition for both are even.
I believe the preference thing is wrong, because just because judge doesn't like it, it doesn't mean it's bad. If someone doesn't like piano sound (in general) does it mean that piano sounds bad?
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Sure im up for the changes you made
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technicality should be kept at 10.
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OP description of detail would better suit a theme category.
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I really dont like the idea of 'themes'. While it is easier to judge, it doesnt allow as much freedom for the mappers
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Theme coherency. You talked about detail suiting the theme. Lots of greeble if it's a space station lots of bushes if it's a forest lots of clowns if it's a haunted carnival. Sticking with the theme the mapper chooses.
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Norf the technicality back to 10!
oh wait, i already posted this... and youve already changed it back... whoops. sorry.
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Theme coherency. You talked about detail suiting the theme. Lots of greeble if it's a space station lots of bushes if it's a forest lots of clowns if it's a haunted carnival. Sticking with the theme the mapper chooses.
Ah I get you. Thought you meant everyone should follow a single theme.
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I can help judge. I've been on vacation, so I can't map anything, but I should be back in time to judge! (if you still need judges that is)
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I can judge too.
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Sure that would be great. That means 3 judges :)
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Can we have a list of the judges so we know who to bribe?
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Can we have a list of the judges so we know who to bribe?
Ill update my OP.
Judges so far:
Commander Scrooge
Kiwi
A Spork
Also, how is everyone going for time? Still going for the 11th or 18th August?
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let's do the 18th. I still haven't even opened radiant. :p
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let's do the 18th. I still haven't even opened radiant. :p
:D
I'm returning home the 14th.. And the next place I'm visiting doesn't have internet access, so I might have to judge the scenes a bit late (if you decide to go with the 11th).
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Yeah... 18th is better, more time = more stunning scenes!
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Wait no offence, but shouldn't people who are skilled at mapping be judging this? How is someone who is not a mapper know how to judge technical skill, etc. I'm just saying, usually judges are ones who are qualified to judge. (see other mapping competitions)
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Yeah... 18th is better, more time = more stunning scenes!
nah, more procrastinating ;)
Wait no offence, but shouldn't people who are skilled at mapping be judging this? How is someone who is not a mapper know how to judge technical skill, etc. I'm just saying, usually judges are ones who are qualified to judge. (see other mapping competitions)
True, non-mappers might not know the technical side but they probably know what they like.
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I mirror moose's opinion, except i'd limit it to just the technicality point scores. All the other ones im pretty sure they can handle.
Btw who have you pm'd? Tried any of the devs? Stannum might do it. But he sucks at mapping.
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18th please, due to my Uni timetable I haven't done much yet (Well technically that's only part of the cause).
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Wait no offence, but shouldn't people who are skilled at mapping be judging this? How is someone who is not a mapper know how to judge technical skill, etc. I'm just saying, usually judges are ones who are qualified to judge. (see other mapping competitions)
I'm a mapper, my skill is impossible for my self to judge though. Most of the maps I make are for a specific QVM and you would never see them. The area my skills most lack in are custom coding jobs (E.G. fire.) But all that matters with those is that they work I think, besides, this Isnt the map we are judging, just a scene of it.
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Wait no offence, but shouldn't people who are skilled at mapping be judging this? How is someone who is not a mapper know how to judge technical skill, etc. I'm just saying, usually judges are ones who are qualified to judge. (see other mapping competitions)
But all that matters with those is that they work I think, besides, this Isnt the map we are judging, just a scene of it.
Exactly, in just a picture, "that it works" doesn't mean anything, that should be a given 100% of the time anyways. It is about skill in creating architecture (a map) for Tremulous. I haven't seen that you have created something that is really good looking. Maybe that doesn't matter, but in my opinion, it does. You need judges to be able to know how to do the things they are doing, or they can't value the skill and value.
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Judges are out of a need right now not a want. I pmed every (i think) dev and all have said they are unable to. I tried Taiyo, david, kev etc eiher said no or no reply. I also asked people earlier to help out in looking for judges, again, no reply.
Perhaps we could limit the technicality part, or even have the judges final scores represent half or 3/4 of your score with the other 50% or 25% coming from a public opinion poll? Anyways id like to see wha you guys think.
Id say 18th looks good for most.
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I know the basics of mapping, and I've played trem for a while now. So I understand how a map needs to be put together.
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We could do a, i'll judge yours if you judge mine for technicality. Or just judge together on that bit.
And how lazy are the bloody people you pm'd, all they have to do is look at a single screen.
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We could do a, i'll judge yours if you judge mine for technicality. Or just judge together on that bit.
And how lazy are the bloody people you pm'd, all they have to do is look at a single screen.
I suggest there is an organized chat room or thread judges can discuss the scenes to better rate each one, just a suggestion.Wait no offence, but shouldn't people who are skilled at mapping be judging this? How is someone who is not a mapper know how to judge technical skill, etc. I'm just saying, usually judges are ones who are qualified to judge. (see other mapping competitions)
But all that matters with those is that they work I think, besides, this Isnt the map we are judging, just a scene of it.
Exactly, in just a picture, "that it works" doesn't mean anything, that should be a given 100% of the time anyways. It is about skill in creating architecture (a map) for Tremulous. I haven't seen that you have created something that is really good looking. Maybe that doesn't matter, but in my opinion, it does. You need judges to be able to know how to do the things they are doing, or they can't value the skill and value.
I have knowledge of the limitations of a mapper, just looking at screen shots I can see how a good mapper over came those limitations. Just in observing what another mapper did, a beginner (with some know-how) can accomplish the same thing, I speak from experience. Creating is one thing, but making is another. Every mapper has different methods of creating architecture.
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I think the main beef, is that newer mappers wont be able to recognize advanced mapping techniques.
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awesome stuff by ingar!
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amazing stuff by nubcake! purrrrrrrrr..
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Holy...
btw guys, my entry is alot smaller than both of yours, i started from scratch so :P
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i suggest you to add a players' or the audience's favourite, so all the guys can vote somehow, more fun and activity for the people. :)
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@Ingar: Thanks :)
@amz181: Thats ok, even if you dont win, hopefully we can spark some mapping ideas and regain some interest in mapping, or see some posibilities with the engine.
@deadmeat: Not until all entries are in
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@Ingar & nubcake: amazing work.
Also, it would be nice if in the Scene entries thread you wouldn't have a big quote around everything.
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I'm really worried now, I can't believe I have a chance at all. :P But I suppose I'd better try. 8)
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More awesomeness by
nubcake your face :o
Edit: wrote nubcake instead of your face :P
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I submitted mine. Nothing special but meh whatever. ;p
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come on people, 1 day left
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Dogonned, 3 entries AINT ENOUGH! I say we go hunt down the mappers and hold them at gun point till they post an entry :D
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im really trying to get mine done, but :S
we do have all of the 18th to finish it rite?
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Yes it is the 18th in Australia already
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Yeah, count me out. I was working on something but scrapped it, I didn't like it much.
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eh I was busy with other things, and couldn't get anything done. Just didn't get in the mapping groove.
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:( Anyone else have anything to submit? I think KnowItAll does
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Technically still a W.I.P. and the lighting came out darker due to printscreen, but I've submitted it.
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Technically still a W.I.P. and the lighting came out darker due to printscreen, but I've submitted it.
Still looks pretty impressive to me. Nice one.
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So uhh... where do the judges post?
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So uhh... where do the judges post?
Ok Use the stickied scene thread to judge, seeing as no other posts are there it would be a good place.
Also ill pm a mod to ask to insert a poll?
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So uhh... where do the judges post?
Ok Use the stickied scene thread to judge, seeing as no other posts are there it would be a good place.
Also ill pm a mod to ask to insert a poll?
Pics first, folks... too bad my skills are such low-end scale to fit on this heavyweight competition of upper caste mappers.
Or you people got already?
To last quoted sentence, sounds good. I want to hear opinion of this little competition. We might get some unknown professional mappers out there, atleast on visual scale, if nothing else.