Tremulous Forum
General => Feedback => Topic started by: BlOw*Up on September 17, 2010, 09:25:36 pm
-
Humans are overpowered in 1.2 then aliens.
I know someone will put a chart and show how they are not but the chart isnt showing the real stats it shows how players play.
Having pros on one side and noobs on the other will show how on chart how one side is overpowered but it is because of the players not actual team and class.
Ok
Humans have medistation at the beginning of the game which is s1 booster but without poison.
Humans also have medkits while aliens have regeneration but alien regeneration is slow while medkits can heal way faster and it is free and everybody has it.
Aliens have to relay on basilisks but thats not fair since you cannot expect basilisk to be present where you are but for humans they have medkits and heal themselves whenever they are.
Lucifer cannon it is good as it is but I would change only one thing humans who shoot charged on close range should take more damage.
Also fun note a fully charged luci shot can take out a adv goon which has 250 hp but cannot take out armored human. Which means humans can take more damage then aliens not to mention bsuits which takes 4 slashes by tyrant to kill them.
In every game like tremulous (gloom, natural selection)
They had made a very balacing game.
Humans relay on long range weapons and aliens relay on melee attacks and special abileties.
It would be cool if aliens had more powers like cloaking, stun, A REAL long ranged weapons (adv goon barbs are cool but it would be better with larger splash area.)
It would be better if tyrant had grangers spit that way it could be at least used.
Grangers spit is like a hovel.
-
Every month or so, a topic like this pops up. Bullshit.
While humans have medkits, aliens have regeneration. Medkits only heal once, which makes humans more dependent on having a base (or a repeater and medi) close at hand. While Lucifer cannon can take out aliens in 1 hit, it takes forever to charge, so if you have even an ounce of decency ( [Z|R] Kory ftw) you can avoid it and take the human out between shots. Yes, humans have a medistation because without it, they are unable to heal, and aliens are. There is no s1 weapon for humans that can K.O a big alien, and every alien other than dretch takes atleast 2 hits to kill. Learn to play, then complain.
-
Every month or so, a topic like this pops up. Bullshit.
While humans have medkits, aliens have regeneration. Medkits only heal once, which makes humans more dependent on having a base (or a repeater and medi) close at hand. While Lucifer cannon can take out aliens in 1 hit, it takes forever to charge, so if you have even an ounce of decency ( [Z|R] Kory ftw) you can avoid it and take the human out between shots. Yes, humans have a medistation because without it, they are unable to heal, and aliens are. There is no s1 weapon for humans that can K.O a big alien, and every alien other than dretch takes atleast 2 hits to kill. Learn to play, then complain.
Lets see human medkits heals like 1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10 whilw alien regeneration heals 1....2....3....4....5 how awesome.
And you can get refil for medkits.
The problem with lucifer cannon is not how it takes to charge the point is it can take out adv goon while it doesnt take out armored human not to mention you can shoot 2x times on the ground close to you and not get killed.
Point is humans have far greater survivability then aliens armor decreses dmg alot + dodge.
And you mentioned there is no s1 weapon that can take KO big alien yes there is nade.
-
Nade comes at s2.
I tried to read your post, I think it might be missing some vital meaning-altering punctuation.
-
The humans are overpowered when working in groups and a rushing in to your base in the first minute. And kill all drenches, builders eggs not letting anyone evolve at all. But this organized action is rare on public servers. Moreover when bigger advanced aliens appear in the hand of an experienced players due unique human actions humans are usually doomed.
I you suck a whole luci ball then you are unlucky. Its pretty easy to dodge the charged luci balls because they traval slower. It takes 3 second to charge. If you do it in front of an alien you are dead before able to release the charged shot.
-
Bullshit.
^Indeed.
Even with the :dretch: dumbed down a bit, it's still pretty damn useful after you learn to play. Once you get :basilisk: or :marauder:, S1 :human: are pretty easy to take down.
Humans have medistation at the beginning of the game which is s1 booster but without poison.
Humans also have medkits while aliens have regeneration but alien regeneration is slow while medkits can heal way faster and it is free and everybody has it.
Like everyone else said: :human: don't have regeneration and medic kit can only be used once. Oh and the "free to everybody," Aliens regeneration is free to all aliens (duh?).
a fully charged luci shot can take out a adv goon which has 250 hp but cannot take out armored human. Which means humans can take more damage then aliens not to mention bsuits which takes 4 slashes by tyrant to kill them.
Fully charged luci can take out a goon blah blah cry cry. It's called dodging buddy, if you can't take the human then retreat and let someone else take the kill.
This one is my favorite, any noob :tyrant: can take out a bsuit, 4 slashes isn't that hard to get in, unless you are being attacked by a group.
-
Also, we shouldn't forget the place where encounter pops up. For example:
Adv. Dragoon in tight corridor, without easy escape gets easily killed by lucifer cannon, yes. Unless the one who uses lucifer gets suprised or misses the shot (lucky!), you got 2,5 seconds to eliminate lcannon wielder. And 2 secs are enough if in close contact.
Tyrant in tight corridors are unpleasant sight in human team. Rants can wipe group of 3 armored humans quite easily, if they're equipped with pulse rifles, chainguns and such, rant survives most times. Unless rant screws it.
And regen depends mostly, if someone in your team is willing to evolve to basilisk and work as booster replacement for some time, and making booster, when you reach s2. And even the foward eggs can be crucial for regen. And what comes to medkit, you need to spare it as much as you can, especially in human team assault. And besides, creep through the wall, or even booster aura, makes human life difficult. Humans can't achieve that, can they? Aliens can move behind corner, regen near boost for few secs, then press on human base, repeats the retreat again, and again, and again, until human base is destroyed, or if they can take out booster, and defend it well. Humans need to build repeater, and medistation near alien base, to keep pressing alien base. And when many wounded humans try to get to medistation, it gets crowded, while aliens can spread around booster.
In shorter words: Aliens can heal anywhere, human only got one medkit shot, and need to get back base to heal.
Every month or so, a topic like this pops up. Bullshit.
----
Learn to play, then complain.
Agreed.
-
Why would you compare teamkilling with a lucifer when aliens do not use the lucifer cannon? And furthermore, why compare goon with the most powerful weapon lucifer cannon, and not the most powerful alien tyrant? And it takes only 3 slashes or one charge to kill a bsuit with a rant.
I don't understand your point - humans rely on medistation, aliens on boosters, basilisks and creep healing. How is that unbalanced?
By the way destroying medi is a very effective tactic, humans can't heal, they can't do much against poison, and when the medi goes back up every single player from the human team will stand in the same spot - the medistation. Snipe it again and you get some 2-3 human kills while getting the medistation down again.
I would suggest you play more and get your facts straight since you're only making yourself look dumb.
-
Humans are overpowered, yes, but mostly because of other reasons than the ones you mentioned.
-
Humans are overpowered, yes, but mostly because of other reasons than the ones you mentioned.
I blame n00bs
-
I would suggest you play more and get your facts straight since you're only making yourself look dumb.
<3
Also, 1) (http://tremulous.net/forum/index.php?topic=6449.0).
-
S1 and S2 are fairly ok, but S3 is broken. Any idiot can take a luci and kill with it, its impossible not to kill. Self damage is negligeble, humans can just spam floor under itself to kill mara/dretch/basilisks that come close without any dire consequences. 2 hit KO'd tyrant and 4 hit KO'd bsuit is pretty stupid since a) alien poses an excellent large target; b) he must get close to luci which is where it owns everything on sight. c)Humans can focus fire while aliens mostly TK/block each other if they try. Aliens can dodge it but thats it. If a luci user is half conscious he will own you the moment you get close. If you dont get close and dodge all the time, they kill your base.
Luci should be replaced with something that actually requires skill like MD, not "hold mouse button, release, watch if it kills something" skill.
-
1 :tyrant: charge can kill a :battlesuit:. Just sayin'
-
The funny thing is that in most luci vs rant duels, rant almost always wins, unless luci guy is quite skilled and rant guy is amazed that he managed to earn 5 evos in single game.
-
1 :tyrant: charge can kill a :battlesuit:. Just sayin'
1 :tyrant: charge can kill :battlesuit::battlesuit::battlesuit::battlesuit:. Just sayin'
-
1 :tyrant: charge can kill a :battlesuit:. Just sayin'
1 :tyrant: charge can kill :battlesuit::battlesuit::battlesuit::battlesuit:. Just sayin'
1 :grenade: can kill :tyrant: :tyrant: :tyrant: :tyrant: :tyrant: :tyrant: :tyrant: :tyrant: :tyrant: Just sayin'
-
S1 and S2 are fairly ok, but S3 is broken. Any idiot can take a luci and kill with it, its impossible not to kill. Self damage is negligeble, humans can just spam floor under itself to kill mara/dretch/basilisks that come close without any dire consequences. 2 hit KO'd tyrant and 4 hit KO'd bsuit is pretty stupid since a) alien poses an excellent large target; b) he must get close to luci which is where it owns everything on sight. c)Humans can focus fire while aliens mostly TK/block each other if they try. Aliens can dodge it but thats it. If a luci user is half conscious he will own you the moment you get close. If you dont get close and dodge all the time, they kill your base.
Luci should be replaced with something that actually requires skill like MD, not "hold mouse button, release, watch if it kills something" skill.
That is what I was talking about finally someone who has some common sense.
The only reason why I have compared luci cannon which is s3 to adv goon who is s2 is because it can take out strongest s2 alien. but cannot take out s2 armored human.
And yes one charge can kill a bsuit but it doesn't change the fact that bsuit can take over 400 dmg while tyrant can take 350 dmg.
Humans can take more damage then aliens.
And 1 charged luci can kill almost everything within booster and also reactor has way more HP then OM.
Aliens have to melee a reactor which has more HP while OM is attacked by far range and has less HP that doesn't add up.
Also humans can fix its buildings with faster rate then alien building regeneration.
-
What in earth does your lucifer cannon teamkilling have to do with anything? The goal of the game is still not "try kill your teammates". Are you trying to kill your teammates often?
Really your arguments are just stupid. "X has less hp than Y, therefore X is worse". Does it really go like that? No. It's not about what damage or what HP that structure has compared to this one, it's how it works in reality. Aliens are more mobile, they regenerate, they don't rely on their base. Those are the reasons for the human base having stronger stats to compensate.
I urge you to get out from your stat sheets and actually play the game before voicing a badly justified opinion.
And, please. 3 tyrant chomps to kill a battlesuit. Or one single charge.
-
What in earth does your lucifer cannon teamkilling have to do with anything? The goal of the game is still not "try kill your teammates". Are you trying to kill your teammates often?
Really your arguments are just stupid. "X has less hp than Y, therefore X is worse". Does it really go like that? No. It's not about what damage or what HP that structure has compared to this one, it's how it works in reality. Aliens are more mobile, they regenerate, they don't rely on their base. Those are the reasons for the human base having stronger stats to compensate.
I urge you to get out from your stat sheets and actually play the game before voicing a badly justified opinion.
And, please. 3 tyrant chomps to kill a battlesuit. Or one single charge.
Are you unable to read?
Just asking.
What does lucifer cannon have to do with teamkilling?
Well nothing and I have never even said about teamkilling your teammates.
You see when you get the game you play it and test it to see how it works you know like balance and hit boxes like in QUake Live where head didn't had a hitbox which was later fixed would you play a game that sometimes it registers a hit and sometimes not?
The strongest s2 alien dies while s2 human doesnt (helmet + armor) thats the problem.
That also makes people who shoot with luci cannon bellow their feet spamming and killing aliens that are near them with slpash damage while not taking alot of damage.
As far as I know aliens are weaker then humans.
Yes aliens are more mobile and regenerate but humans take less damage + long range weapons + medkit.
So tell me what makes more sense for melee attackers to make more damage or for long range attackers to make less? I mean melee attackers must make more damage to kill or destroy something or range attackers make less damage to kill or destroy?
It should be the way around since melee attackers are LACKING range.
And you talk like aliens travel with light speed and regenerate like 50 hp in 1 second when most of them travel in average speed besides dretches who can't damage buildings at all and regenerate like 1 hp each second so if alien has 10 hp it takes about 1.30 minutes so I would not call that very special when in natural selection aliens regenerate 20-100 HP per second depends on which class you are.
And you talk about trample like it can kill a bsuit in the moment you start the tremple when in fact it takes a little while to kill it and + extra damage if you crush it against the wall but it doesn change the fact it is the same amout of damage as 4 slashes and yes its 4 not 3 test it in 1 on 1 when bsuits are unhurt and have 100 hp.
-
Stop testing it wrong. Hit only the head and you're good to go with 3 chomps. Do the math yourself: 150 (tyrant headshot damage) * 0,27 (battlesuit head modifier) = 40,5 rounded down to 40 damage. So, one slash does 40 damage to a battlesuit.
In fact aliens travel with enormous speeds when you learn to play. This is what I would suggest you to do, watch how good aliens play the game and soon you'll get the hang of it. Use a basilisk and you'll heal fast. Use a booster and you'll heal even faster!
It indeed does make sense that a goon kills an armoured human with 3 pounces while the human has to take multiple, up to 50 shots to kill a goon. And it indeed makes sense that the best weapon in the game is able to kill mere goons (which are only s2 weaponry). Otherwise staging up would not make any sense.
Also, what? Aliens deal full damage to humans. What is it that humans are taking less damage from?
And you talk about lucifer cannon like it can kill a goon at the moment you start the charging up when it fact it takes a little while to kill it! :(
-
Stop testing it wrong. Hit only the head and you're good to go with 3 chomps. Do the math yourself: 150 (tyrant headshot damage) * 0,27 (battlesuit head modifier) = 40,5 rounded down to 40 damage. So, one slash does 40 damage to a battlesuit.
In fact aliens travel with enormous speeds when you learn to play. This is what I would suggest you to do, watch how good aliens play the game and soon you'll get the hang of it. Use a basilisk and you'll heal fast. Use a booster and you'll heal even faster!
It indeed does make sense that a goon kills an armoured human with 3 pounces while the human has to take multiple, up to 50 shots to kill a goon. And it indeed makes sense that the best weapon in the game is able to kill mere goons (which are only s2 weaponry). Otherwise staging up would not make any sense.
Also, what? Aliens deal full damage to humans. What is it that humans are taking less damage from?
And you talk about lucifer cannon like it can kill a goon at the moment you start the charging up when it fact it takes a little while to kill it! :(
So many flaws with your argument that is just silly.
1.) Head slash is the most powerful attack right so like you said before 1 slash = 150 dmg without bsuit 3 slashes is 400 dmg right, So battle suit reduced damage way way way more then it should in fact all armor does. It still doesnt change the fact just because it reduces from 150 to 40 doesnt make a difference it still means you have dealt the same amout of damage as 400 dmg to unarmored human. Aliens dont have the armor so they take full damage and in tyrant's case its 350.
2.) Aliens can travel fast only with bunny hop because thank god its quake 3 engine however most beginners don't know about bunny hopping and I am talking about actual speed in game without engine tricks because you can travel fast with human too (bhops) but you will run out of stamina.
3.) It doesnt make sense that the best weapon in the game takes out strongest s2 aliens while it doesnt take out s2 human.
It doesn't make sense that melee attacker has to do more dmg as long range attacker.
And btw you have to charge goon pounce.
3.) Contradiction you said that bsuit reduces from 150 to 40 and then at the end you said "Also, what? Aliens deal full damage to humans. What is it that humans are taking less damage from?"
If that was the case bsuit would take 150 dmg instead of 40.
4.)Luci charge takes about roughly the same time as normal goon pounce and when you shoot below yourself you can kill anything around you (aliens) with splash damage while still alive and still able for combat.
-
Learn to play aliens, and you'll see why theyve won more games on us1 than humans
-
You could multiply all alien class and buildable hps by 5 and human weapon & ret/tesla damages by 5, it would still take exactly the same amounts of bullets to kill aliens and thus the gameplay would barely change at all, just humans could kill each other 5x faster and aliens 5x slower. Stop comparing alien hps to humans hps, it's irrelevant. And 1 more player to tell you to go learn the game first. After 2 months if you have become a very good player people might take you seriously since you'll actually know what you are talking about.
-
Screw the details. A picture is worth a thousand words:
(http://imgur.com/Sv7Sx.png)
-
You could multiply all alien class and buildable hps by 5 and human weapon & ret/tesla damages by 5, it would still take exactly the same amounts of bullets to kill aliens and thus the gameplay would barely change at all, just humans could kill each other 5x faster and aliens 5x slower. Stop comparing alien hps to humans hps, it's irrelevant. And 1 more player to tell you to go learn the game first. After 2 months if you have become a very good player people might take you seriously since you'll actually know what you are talking about.
It is not irrelevant.
I am not complaining because I cant play I am complaining because gloom and Natural Selection are more balanced then Tremulous.
In gloom with hatchling you can kill human in 1 shot is dark colored and maps are darkish in trem maps are light, dretch is very visible and kills human in 2 headshots..
Almost every alien can kill humans in 1 or 2 shots unless it is ranged weapon because they are melee ranged.
Now in tremulous melee attackers have to make more hits in order to kill a human which is silly.
So instead of tremulous being unique game it looks like quake 3 only 1 team has gauntlets while others normal weapons.
But to make things worse the team with weapons have red armor while team with gauntlets have no armor.
In every game gloom, natural selection melee attackers make way more dmg and armor doesn't reduce from 150 to 40 more like from 150 to 90.
And btw why would I improve aliens hp's and then also improve human rets, tesla dmg?
How about just reducing the armor?
This game is silly a s2 human with flamer killing all aliens infront of him while another s2 human who is also infront of him stays alive or noob luci spammers shooting at his teamates charged bolts killing goon and mara around it while his teamates survive its retarded.
I thought tremulous is fps/rts hybrid but all I can see is FPS no strategy needed its quake.
Just rush and spray and pray.
And lol@stats
I can bring the stats in one team you have Counter Terrorists (SK) and in other Terrorirsts (some noob players) and that will be the proof that CT's are overpowered in CS right?
Stats are just that aliens have better players nothing more.
-
I see that this thread is more about trolling than giving deep perspective and constructive criticism about Tremulous.
I fail to see, where this actually points to. You confuse me with this.
It is not irrelevant.
I am not complaining because I cant play I am complaining because gloom and Natural Selection are more balanced then Tremulous.
I don't know these, and I don't comment about which game is balanced, Tremulous, Natural Selection or Gloom. Maybe someone can enlighten more to this. But my final word:
Tremulous is what it is.
BTW:
So instead of tremulous being unique game it looks like quake 3 only 1 team has gauntlets while others normal weapons.
But to make things worse the team with weapons have red armor while team with gauntlets have no armor.
Stupid comparison. Actually, so stupid, that I want this topic to be flamed at.
-
Learn to play the game, bro.
-
A :grenade: can kill easily a :tyrant: .
A luci can kill easily a :tyrant: and even more easily all other aliens in 1 hit.
A :dragoon: needs to chomp much to kill a :battlesuit:
A :dragoon: can always use pounce, but it's hard in wide spaces and easy to miss.
A :tyrant: needs to slice 3 times to kill :battlesuit:
A :basilisk: is useless if :helmet:
A :granger: can kill :human: in 2 head bites, but it's hard and enemy has a gun and :human: go in groups
A :advmarauder: can PwN :armoury: :defcomp: :reactor: :repeater: :telenode: :tesla: :turret: AND :battlesuit: :human: :helmet:, but not :grenade:
A :granger: can't hide in his house anymore. :'(
2 :grenade: can destroy :overmind: and all other that surrounds it.
There, some facts. I have no idea what this proves but oh well, the life is a real mess. Thanks!
-
Basi is never useless and a grenade can't kill a rant :egg:
-
I see that this thread is more about trolling than giving deep perspective and constructive criticism about Tremulous.
I fail to see, where this actually points to. You confuse me with this.
It is not irrelevant.
I am not complaining because I cant play I am complaining because gloom and Natural Selection are more balanced then Tremulous.
I don't know these, and I don't comment about which game is balanced, Tremulous, Natural Selection or Gloom. Maybe someone can enlighten more to this. But my final word:
Tremulous is what it is.
BTW:
So instead of tremulous being unique game it looks like quake 3 only 1 team has gauntlets while others normal weapons.
But to make things worse the team with weapons have red armor while team with gauntlets have no armor.
Stupid comparison. Actually, so stupid, that I want this topic to be flamed at.
I gave the deep perspective 10000 of times but since you don't know what that means so it is stupid to respond to every single time.
In any game knife or anything melee based weapon kills a player very fast because it is melee based in gloom you can claw almost any player in one hit just like in COD 1 bash can take out a player when gun needs few shots unless rifles which make up by slow reload.
In natural selection you have to kill players in the similar fashion like in tremulous few hits or more if the guy is having armor or heavy armor BUT aliens have armor and high HP's Onos which is the most powerful alien in NS has 950 HP and 900 Armor while tyrant has 350 and Onos also needs 3 hits to take out heavy armor guy or 1 hit if he uses devour which eats it victim and it is fun picture too you see stomach on your screen while onos devours you.
Tremulous is not like quake 3?
You can bunny hop, pulse rifle = plasma gun, painsaw = gauntlet, luci = bfg, mass driver = rail gun, shotgun = shotgun, machinegun = rifle, flamethrower = LG.
In tremulous you build something other then that you rush get kills for EVO or credits.
Now if you have ever played Natural Selection you start a game, build resource towers on strategic locations, build various buildings for various upgrades so the game really has strategic element.
Also instead of just point & click for making buildings you have to go to the building and press use key to build.
If you don't know about NS then check youtube.
Humans:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SIPdBn5hK9Y
Aliens:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a51yLliQNWM
This is FPS/RTS
Trem is like quake.
-
Again, learn to play, and trem isn't anything like NS...In fact, NS came after trem.
-
I'm not sure what are you trying to achieve by comparing other Trem-like (and even statistics from these) games to Tremulous. You want devs to use exactly same statistics as these?
Tremulous has different approach in balancing the game. It doesn't mean that it's unbalanced though. So far you are the only one in this thread who thinks so (didn't check though, don't want to waste my time reading whole thread) while really experienced and skilled players say you are wrong. I don't recall seeing you in game so I can't really judge how good you are (though I believe you aren't doing well as aliens guessing from your posts), but when people who I know tell you are wrong - I'm more willing to believe them.
Also you comparison rant vs luci is really silly. It takes 3 hits (your argument that it's the most powerful attack or something doesn't make sense, powerful doesn't mean it's hard - and it isn't) to kill a BSuit Luci as Rant, while it takes 2 Luci charges to kill a rant. Though it takes like 3 seconds to full charge - 3 seconds which allow rant to charge into you even from far away, and slash you at least once. While you have to charge it again. In fact even mara can take out singe luci or at least hurt it badly.
Also if you say that trem is like quake I would say that you haven't played these games. I can say too, that Rifle is just same as M4A1, Mass Driver is similar to AWM (or hoverer it's called) and Chaingun is similar to that rambo thing. Does it mean that Trem is like CS?
-
And lol@stats
I can bring the stats in one team you have Counter Terrorists (SK) and in other Terrorirsts (some noob players) and that will be the proof that CT's are overpowered in CS right?
Stats are just that aliens have better players nothing more.
Do you understand sample size? In order for that to be even close to applicable, the teams would have to be badly stacked, consistently, for thousands of games. If anything, the pros all have binds to join the human team, making the noobs join alien.
I call it as I see it, and I see the aliens winning about as often as humans do. Maybe everyone else is right and you just suck haven't had as much practice playing a melee class as a ranged one. How many FPSes have you played where you need to fire a gun to kill the enemy? Exactly. Now, how many games have you played that were mostly melee?
-
before you completely faint and melt how great natural selection is and trem is just a hollow shell of it, i would recommend some reading first. xD
Tremulous is not like quake 3?
You can bunny hop, pulse rifle = plasma gun, painsaw = gauntlet, luci = bfg, mass driver = rail gun, shotgun = shotgun, machinegun = rifle, flamethrower = LG.
so i made your homework (2 mins of google) and see what ive found, wooo! (http://www.bryns.co.uk/ns2/tutorial-ns-frontiersmen.html)
marine weapons in ns2.
Light Machine Gun (LMG) - omg a RIFLE
Pistol - blaster
Knife - trem has psaw, would you prefer to stab a tyrant to death instead of grinding it down?
Shotgun
Grenade Launcher (no it wasnt in quake)
Heavy Machine Gun (HMG) - chaingun
Trip Mine - no mines in default trem, but there are in mods
Jet Pack - ohnoes, happy camping time, wait for the goon
Heavy Armour - battlesuit
Welder - "A weapon/utility that is the only device capable of repairing any of your marine structures after an attack by the kharaa... Although it replaces the pistol it is advisable to equip at least one marine especially since he can repair the heavy armour on the fly..."
Structures
Sentry Turrets -
"Available to be placed in any area within the range of a turret factory. Sporting a fast rate of fire and 360 degree’s field of fire this device is great for defending key locations without the need of tying up any marines. "
Siege Turret- "Can only be placed within the power radius of an advanced armoury and without the ability to target any aliens this would seem at first a useless turret. Yet the siege turret is able to destroy any alien structure with a few shots and with the ability to shoot through walls this is an unstoppable weapon." Teeeeesla, need a ddddddccccc
Motion tracking - "ability to see any moving alien, removing their prime asset of surprise. Marines can now easily track and hunt down the infestation and sport mass incoming assaults in enough time to prepare defences." wooooot, helmet!
Infantry Portal - "...Without it no marine can spawn and the aliens can attack at will. ..
Armoury - The armoury allows marines to ‘use’ it to gain free ammunition for any weapon. It also gives the commander the ability to drop new weapons and build new structures."
Observatory - "The observatory allows motion tracking to be enabled and for the use of scanner sweeps to reveal areas to the commander or to the siege turrets. " - FFS, this is the DC
Resource Tower - RC
Phase gate - teleport
Arms Lab - "Allows for the upgrading of weapons and armour and for the construction of new buildings and weapons " - gives you S2 :P
Prototype Lab - "Equipment that is cleared for fieldtesting is programmed into the prototype lab. As of this manual, prototype equipment consists of heavy armour and jet pack technology. This equipment is powerful, and cutting edge. Whether its cost is justified is a matter of debate, and left to command strategy." - gives you S3 :P
oh and there is flamethrower now (not in this doc)
laserguns, railguns and pulse rifles are very common in scifi movies, not quake invented them.
Now if you have ever played Natural Selection you start a game, build resource towers on strategic locations, build various buildings for various upgrades so the game really has strategic element.
wow in tremulous you place a reactor (strategic locations ftw), build various buildings, so the game has a strategic element!
Also instead of just point & click for making buildings you have to go to the building and press use key to build.
i have no idea why is it good or not. and why is it strategic.
and btw you left out chaingun from your (omg quake ripoff) weapon list :P - basically these are the standard weapons in all fps for 15 years.
so now all we can kneel in front of the unique mindblowing creativity of NS :D
-
All these 10000 games statistics show is that devs want won/lost games even for both teams disregarding the quality of players in each of them. And they are good at it. What is lost in the chart is that both teams are unique and statistically better players might tend to join one of the teams more hence even if its balance wise weaker, it gets as much wins as the other team. If i want to play a shooter i go launch cs 1.6, trem is not particularly good in this part so i most of the time join aliens for example. You need to provide a statistic which takes skill into account. 2 teams switching places in a series of matches with players of same skill. Also: this chart doesnt take in to account of how much effort one team should put in to win a game. Example: spamming 3 luci is nowhere near difficult as winning with 3 rants being focused by rets/all human team. Same as SC/SC2 where zerg should have better micro on average to be able to compete.
-
before you completely faint and melt how great natural selection is and trem is just a hollow shell of it, i would recommend some reading first. xD
Tremulous is not like quake 3?
You can bunny hop, pulse rifle = plasma gun, painsaw = gauntlet, luci = bfg, mass driver = rail gun, shotgun = shotgun, machinegun = rifle, flamethrower = LG.
so i made your homework (2 mins of google) and see what ive found, wooo! (http://www.bryns.co.uk/ns2/tutorial-ns-frontiersmen.html)
marine weapons in ns2.
Light Machine Gun (LMG) - omg a RIFLE
Pistol - blaster
Knife - trem has psaw, would you prefer to stab a tyrant to death instead of grinding it down?
Shotgun
Grenade Launcher (no it wasnt in quake)
Heavy Machine Gun (HMG) - chaingun
Trip Mine - no mines in default trem, but there are in mods
Jet Pack - ohnoes, happy camping time, wait for the goon
Heavy Armour - battlesuit
Welder - "A weapon/utility that is the only device capable of repairing any of your marine structures after an attack by the kharaa... Although it replaces the pistol it is advisable to equip at least one marine especially since he can repair the heavy armour on the fly..."
Structures
Sentry Turrets -
"Available to be placed in any area within the range of a turret factory. Sporting a fast rate of fire and 360 degree’s field of fire this device is great for defending key locations without the need of tying up any marines. "
Siege Turret- "Can only be placed within the power radius of an advanced armoury and without the ability to target any aliens this would seem at first a useless turret. Yet the siege turret is able to destroy any alien structure with a few shots and with the ability to shoot through walls this is an unstoppable weapon." Teeeeesla, need a ddddddccccc
Motion tracking - "ability to see any moving alien, removing their prime asset of surprise. Marines can now easily track and hunt down the infestation and sport mass incoming assaults in enough time to prepare defences." wooooot, helmet!
Infantry Portal - "...Without it no marine can spawn and the aliens can attack at will. ..
Armoury - The armoury allows marines to ‘use’ it to gain free ammunition for any weapon. It also gives the commander the ability to drop new weapons and build new structures."
Observatory - "The observatory allows motion tracking to be enabled and for the use of scanner sweeps to reveal areas to the commander or to the siege turrets. " - FFS, this is the DC
Resource Tower - RC
Phase gate - teleport
Arms Lab - "Allows for the upgrading of weapons and armour and for the construction of new buildings and weapons " - gives you S2 :P
Prototype Lab - "Equipment that is cleared for fieldtesting is programmed into the prototype lab. As of this manual, prototype equipment consists of heavy armour and jet pack technology. This equipment is powerful, and cutting edge. Whether its cost is justified is a matter of debate, and left to command strategy." - gives you S3 :P
oh and there is flamethrower now (not in this doc)
laserguns, railguns and pulse rifles are very common in scifi movies, not quake invented them.
Now if you have ever played Natural Selection you start a game, build resource towers on strategic locations, build various buildings for various upgrades so the game really has strategic element.
wow in tremulous you place a reactor (strategic locations ftw), build various buildings, so the game has a strategic element!
Also instead of just point & click for making buildings you have to go to the building and press use key to build.
i have no idea why is it good or not. and why is it strategic.
and btw you left out chaingun from your (omg quake ripoff) weapon list :P - basically these are the standard weapons in all fps for 15 years.
so now all we can kneel in front of the unique mindblowing creativity of NS :D
So you didnt even play the game and you make some stupid comments?
Siege turret is not Tesla because tesla damages aliens sige does not it is only for damaging buildings.
So if mines are in the mod that means what?
Nothing mines still are not in trem.
Yes in tremulous you plant reactor so what?
Do you place resource towers on gas in order to harvest it and get resources?
Because you have to build resource towers where the gas is the more you have them the more resources you get you also have to defend the resource towers. Also killing players will get you no evo or credit points everything is based on resources. And you will have to spend them correctly because you want only the upgrades that are useful in certian map.
Also for humans not every noob with with 600 credits can buy weapons like luci cannon because it is up to commander to give better weapons to better players because if you mix up you have just screw your team up you spent resources for nothing and after that you can loose a RC.
So if you think this is in anyway trem like then you are just silly.
And when I was comparing trem to quake I didnt talk about names or what weapons you feel like are similar but because tremulous has a lot of ACTUAL MODDED QUAKE 3 WEAPONS IN IT and by modded I mean just different skins however the rate of fire, the movment of projectiles even damage is the same as in quake 3.
Jetpack has fuel ;) so you cant use it all the time.
Motion tracking is not helmet it is a upgrade that you need to research and you see a circle on the wall where alien is instead of just red dots.
Observatory enables tracking aliens only to commander not all players because commander has top down rts view and he controls other human player by pointing to which waypoint they must go and what and where to build structures.
There is flamethrower in NS?
I dont think so.
Maybe it will be in NS2 but I doubt that you just made this up.
-
Then go play your Natural Selection game, and leave us alone?
-
we can argue about the details (which makes the two games different) but the key concepts are damn same.
Jetpack has fuel Wink so you cant use it all the time.
it exists in trem on some servers too.
-
I think because NS is a first-person shooter it is a clear copy of Wolfenstein 3D!
And yes. The statistics indeed always lie. Clearly every single good player ever to play Tremulous goes aliens!
Seriously, if your brain matter happens to be that decayed I suggest you go play your CS/NS/Gloom.
Next time find some valid arguments to come by and we will take you seriously.
-
If you are so clever, find an error in my arguments? Prove im wrong.
Otherwise stay silend and dont make yourself look dumb.
-
Let's clear it up - A luci can actually do more then 300 damage to a rant (The max I have received is 324). NS came after Trem, NS is more like strategy - it has more buildings and instead of trem, which mainly consists of 3 buildings (Defences, Main building( :overmind: / :reactor: ), spawns), It has many support buildings. NS has commander/leader thingy. Weapons such as machine gun (rifle), Shotgun, pistol (blaster), Heavy machine gun (chaingun) are extremely common in these day games. I'm pretty sure NS devs had the idea after playing a bit of trem - it won't be suprising.
Tremulous is not like quake 3?
You can bunny hop, pulse rifle = plasma gun, painsaw = gauntlet, luci = bfg, mass driver = rail gun, shotgun = shotgun, machinegun = rifle, flamethrower = LG.
Bunny hop - Also able to do that in Quake 4 (multiplayer), Counter-strike, all other quake games, Half-life and Half-life 2 + it's addons (including multiplayer and other mods).
Pulse rifle = plasma gun - You can't wall-run, prifle has ammo capacity (magazines) while plasma doesn't, prifle has slower projectile, prifle doesn't have as big projectile, prifle doesn't have 5cm big splash damage.
Painsaw = gauntlet - Painsaw has lower damage, higher damage repeat, different aiming properties (has smaller aim), Has longer range, Gauntlet was built in a glove, psaw is a psaw.
Luci = BFG - Luci has charged shots, luci deals higher damage, has slower projectiles, bigger splash. I would more compare it to Rocket launcher.
Mass driver = rail gun - Rail gun has MUCH wider shot, deals about 120 damage, has no zoom ability, has no reloading.
Shotgun = shotgun - ... you just compared 2 identical purpose weapons... The only difference is that, shotgun is double barreled while Shotgun has 1 barrel but has 8 round magazine.
Machine gun = rifle - Machine gun was actually a chain gun (it had 4 barrels).
Flame thrower = LG - http://www.zoneshot.com/server/dg/facepalm.jpg
You'r arguments are ABSOLUTELY wrong, therefore - you suck! Eat if fatty. Learn to play... Both quake 3 and trem.
-
Re: Humans are Overpowered:
I dare you to 1v1 me.
I guarantee My Friend :basilisk: will tear your head to shreds 4 times out of 5.
And I may be many things, but I'm pretty sure I'm not pro....
-
Pretty damn balanced. (http://stats.tremulous.net/tremstats/us1/map_balance.php)
-
spork wtf u r pro okz? the essence of friend basi will help thee.
-
First off, one grenade can not, I repeat not kill a tyrant. And it certainly can't...
1 :grenade: can kill :tyrant: :tyrant: :tyrant: :tyrant: :tyrant: :tyrant: :tyrant: :tyrant: :tyrant: Just sayin'
I know there's people out there that believe the above quote. I just wanted to clear the air on that subject.
And lol@stats
Stats are just that aliens have better players nothing more.
Come on man, now you're just grasping at straws (that aren't even there).
A :grenade: can kill easily a :tyrant: . Wrong.
A luci can kill easily a :tyrant: and even more easily all other aliens in 1 hit. also wrong(2 luci shots, assuming they both hit and are charged enough, are needed to kill a rant).
A :dragoon: needs to chomp much 5 times to kill a :battlesuit: fixed but still pointless
A :dragoon: can always use pounce, but it's hard in wide spaces and easy to miss. you just need more practice
A :tyrant: needs to slice 3 times to kill :battlesuit: yup
A :basilisk: is useless if :helmet: not at all true
A :granger: can kill :human: in 3 head bites, but it's hard and enemy has a gun and :human: go in groups Grangers are also green and should never be used for combat
A :advmarauder: can PwN :armoury: :defcomp: :reactor: :repeater: :telenode: :tesla: :turret: AND :battlesuit: :human: :helmet:, but not :grenade: 5 of those are static objects that can't defend themselves, and if you're being PwNed by mara when you got a :battlesuit: you're beyond help
A :granger: can't hide in his house anymore. :'( neither can humans with ckit
2 :grenade: can destroy :overmind: and all other that surrounds it. 2 grenades can not kill the overmind (om has 750hp and nades only do 310dmg), and can only kill some things around it
There, some facts. I have no idea what this proves but oh well, the life is a real mess. Thanks!
shout out to Kharnov and his gang for their tremulous guide (https://sites.google.com/site/tremulousthestrategyguide/) that I got some numbers from.
-
Re: Humans are Overpowered:
I dare you to 1v1 me.
I guarantee My Friend :basilisk: will tear your head to shreds 4 times out of 5.
And I may be many things, but I'm pretty sure I'm not pro....
You must be aline pro player then? O MA GA
So from my comments you think you can take me lol.
I bet I play with aliens better then you.
In fact
http://stats.tremulous.net/tremstats/us1/player_details.php?player_id=10516
Since you have your stats in SIG and you proudly show them for ego boost or something.
Still hummies are overpowered or maybe is just because they are more easily playable and most people know how to play with them because they played all other FPS with guns.
-
Re: Humans are Overpowered:
I dare you to 1v1 me.
I guarantee My Friend :basilisk: will tear your head to shreds 4 times out of 5.
And I may be many things, but I'm pretty sure I'm not pro....
ok its on. bring it nub
-
Re: Humans are Overpowered:
I dare you to 1v1 me.
I guarantee My Friend :basilisk: will tear your head to shreds 4 times out of 5.
And I may be many things, but I'm pretty sure I'm not pro....
You must be aline pro player then? O MA GA
can you not read man???
I already said Im not pro.
So from my comments you think you can take me lol.
I bet I play with aliens better then you.
In fact
http://stats.tremulous.net/tremstats/us1/player_details.php?player_id=10516
Yes, your comments do make me think I could take you, not because im that great, but because you sound like an inexperienced whiny little noob.
And guess what? Your tremstats link proves it. 20 games sure as heck aint enough to make an informed descision.
Since you have your stats in SIG and you proudly show them for ego boost or something.
Still hummies are overpowered or maybe is just because they are more easily playable and most people know how to play with them because they played all other FPS with guns.
Actually I mainly have that in my sig to
A) show my ingame name at the time and
B) for the random quote.
Humans aren't overpowered, however they are more noob-friendly, because, as you pointed out, they're very similar in playstyle to pretty much every other fps in existence.
You're grasping at non-existent straws.
Just face the facts buddy, humans aren't overpowered, you're the only one who thinks they are.
My suspicion is that you think they're overpowered wimpy because you haven't learned to play aliens properly yet. Go learn how to dretch, and you'll be much less convinced humans are overpowered.
-
http://stats.tremulous.net/tremstats/us1/player_details.php?player_id=10516
This is you?
This player, with only 28 games of experience, is you?
This player, who has only played as humans for 25 minuets, is you?
This player, who has only been playing for one day, is you?
Who the hell do you think you are?
Leave these forums and don't come back until you've learned what it really means for a game to be balanced.
-
lolirony:
http://i171.photobucket.com/albums/u309/nikolawebpage/lolirony.jpg
-
Let's clear it up - A luci can actually do more then 300 damage to a rant (The max I have received is 324)
According to the firm site (https://sites.google.com/site/tremulousthestrategyguide/home/humans/weapons/lucifer-cannon), Luci's max damage us 265, so someone has to either bleed you or shoot you along with luci guy, just to clear it up :)
-
So much stuff wrong in this thread. Granger needs 3 headshots to kill an unarmoured human! :(
If you are so clever, find an error in my arguments? Prove im wrong.
Otherwise stay silend and dont make yourself look dumb.
Killing lucifers is easy with dretches due to the decreased spread and charge time. You can get 1-2 bites + poison + damage they take from lucying you from close distance. Dretch is also free - you're able to dretchspam. Also, goons are nice to use with pounces, snipes and poison. Killing a luci with a tyrant most of the time is no trouble too. Also, lucifers need to get to your base and start destroying buildings to be of an actual use, where they are easier to pick. And with the charge time being longer, killing structures takes a lot more time now.
As to your skill argument, just look at the top players in http://stats.tremulous.net/tremstats/eu1/top_players.php and http://stats.tremulous.net/tremstats/us1/top_players.php and you will see that people usually do not favour any team significantly (usually only ~2 hours - 32:00 vs. 30:00 for example)
I think most of the "humans are overpowered" guys think so only because the human team usually gains more kills.
-
I cant agree dretches are killers of luci as long as luci can instakill at once few of them. If anything, mara and tyrant are anti luci weapons imo. Mara, being able to dodge lots and lots of fire while poisoning humans and running away after Tyrants having a lot of damage. Goon vs luci is imo a bad idea. I usually dont use goon for anything other than HS 1 pwnage and human base sniping because i dont find them enough survivable for their cost(size and teammate blocking kills them in general combat). You can always hit n run with them but for general combat imo rant of mara are more cost effective.
My point is: human team is cheap, it requires lots of spam or camp to win (chainsuit and luci spam). Aliens need more effort to win.
And still, rant player duelling dedicated luci player shouldnt win. Luci should be spammed in the way of possible trample preemptively. The problem is that if human player gets enough skill he can be nearly unkillable with luci and punish anyone who tries to kill him. For aliens, same problem as for Pyro class in TF2 if anyone played it: no matter your skill, your attack range puts a STRONG limit to your effectiveness (the top level of effectiveness of alien lies strictly lower than the top level of effectiveness for human and on high skill levels aliens have increasingly more and more trouble staying on par with humans of same skill).
-
You ought to since a lucifer sure has problems with dretches if they only use walls, ceilings and so on effectively to land a bite. Dretches are an inexhaustible resource (at least until all eggs are down) and so they pose a serious threat even though one dretch usually can't win a lucifer by itself.
Maras are fairly easy to kill with lucifer when you get the hang of it - only problem lies in that killing a marauder in your face with luci makes for an enormous amount of splash damage to your head region. They should be taken from a distance if possible.
Also: goon is up until S3 the most powerful alien. I don't usually have any problems surviving S2 with a goon. I believe most of the kills made by aliens are by goon, still. It's much more effective than a marauder in widespread killwhoring albeit marauder is more fun, challenging and the most teamwork-able alien.
Most of the time tyrant wins against a lucifer (or it's a draw, both die), unless the lucifer can get some high ground from tight corridors etc. Still, the speedy 1.2 lucifer projectile is fairly easy to dodge, and you just have to time your attack against the lucifer right.
I don't really think the human team requires any more "spam" than "mara spam" or "tyrant spam" and so. And I would really argue that skilled chainsuits are a lot more of a problem than skilled lucifers.
The last one I do agree on, on high skill levels aliens generally require more effort to stay on par with humans of same skill level. Although I think that's mainly only because of the weak dretch and the advantage gained from killing dretches. Skilled goons for example annihilate skilled humans, and skilled marauders are usually on the same level as skilled humans.
-
And I would really argue that skilled chainsuits are a lot more of a problem than skilled lucifers.
I think often a nub chainsuit is equal to a skilled lucifer wielder. And a LuciSuit is an a blind self-killer.
-
And I would really argue that skilled chainsuits are a lot more of a problem than skilled lucifers.
I think often a nub chainsuit is equal to a skilled lucifer wielder. And a LuciSuit is an a blind self-killer.
-
A :grenade: can kill easily a :tyrant: . Wrong.
A luci can kill easily a :tyrant: and even more easily all other aliens in 1 hit. also wrong(2 luci shots, assuming they both hit and are charged enough, are needed to kill a rant).
A :dragoon: needs to chomp much 5 times to kill a :battlesuit: fixed but still pointless
A :dragoon: can always use pounce, but it's hard in wide spaces and easy to miss. you just need more practice
A :tyrant: needs to slice 3 times to kill :battlesuit: yup
A :basilisk: is useless if :helmet: not at all true
A :granger: can kill :human: in 3 head bites, but it's hard and enemy has a gun and :human: go in groups Grangers are also green and should never be used for combat
A :advmarauder: can PwN :armoury: :defcomp: :reactor: :repeater: :telenode: :tesla: :turret: AND :battlesuit: :human: :helmet:, but not :grenade: 5 of those are static objects that can't defend themselves, and if you're being PwNed by mara when you got a :battlesuit: you're beyond help
A :granger: can't hide in his house anymore. :'( neither can humans with ckit
2 :grenade: can destroy :overmind: and all other that surrounds it. 2 grenades can not kill the overmind (om has 750hp and nades only do 310dmg), and can only kill some things around it
There, some facts. I have no idea what this proves but oh well, the life is a real mess. Thanks!
Dude... I can't agree about the last one... Who would just rush in the base, drop 2 grenades, and just run away, hoping that the explosion would get bigger and om will get destroyed? WHO? I SAID "WHO?" YOU FREAK? If you really just rush in the enemy base, drop a nade and run like a faggot not trying to destroy anything else, then you are a faggot.
About Granger, sheesh dude, you are taking it too seriously.
About goon pounces, That means 78.36% server players need to practice.
About :grenade: and :tyrant:, same as with :overmind: :grenade: .
About goon chomps, I don't count like a retarded criple faggot how many times I hit a virtual man, in virtual armor with a virtual alien. The fact is that Goon chomps are extremely useless against Bsuit, not even talking about that you may accidently hit them in legs or torso.
About basi, friend :basilisk: is for regeneration and stealth kills - that is, hide, wait for enemy, leave your cover, feast with fresh human flesh. Basi isn't useful against head-on attacks because of their low hp and big bounding box (if that is bounding box ofcourse).
About mara, Bsuit can easily be taken down, if they have psaw or rifle (in some cases also prifle)
About rant and luci, as I said, max damage I have received from a luci is 324 damage. If you are wouned, which you probably are, you can be killed in 1 hit.
-
Dude... I can't agree about the last one... Who would just rush in the base, drop 2 grenades, and just run away, hoping that the explosion would get bigger and om will get destroyed? WHO? I SAID "WHO?" YOU FREAK? If you really just rush in the enemy base, drop a nade and run like a faggot not trying to destroy anything else, then you are a faggot.
You need to calm down there bro. I'm just stating the facts, not assuming hypothetical situations. And please don't use words like "FREAK" and "faggot" as they are rude and make you look childish.
About Granger, sheesh dude, you are taking it too seriously.
You brought up the topic. I merely corrected you, and elaborated on it.
Basi isn't useful against head-on attacks
I never said they were.
I don't count like a retarded criple faggot
This is the point at which I lost all respect for you, and you lost all credibility. Oh, and you spelt "cripple" wrong. :-*
as I said, max damage I have received from a luci is 324 damage.
A fully charged shot from a Lucifer cannon does 265 damage. (https://sites.google.com/site/tremulousthestrategyguide/home/humans/weapons/lucifer-cannon) gg.
Also, if you are going to respond to this, please make sure you have intelligent arguments to refute my points. I've wasted enough time cleaning up your garbage. :angel:
-
You ought to since a lucifer sure has problems with dretches if they only use walls, ceilings and so on effectively to land a bite. Dretches are an inexhaustible resource (at least until all eggs are down) and so they pose a serious threat even though one dretch usually can't win a lucifer by itself.
Maras are fairly easy to kill with lucifer when you get the hang of it - only problem lies in that killing a marauder in your face with luci makes for an enormous amount of splash damage to your head region. They should be taken from a distance if possible.
Also: goon is up until S3 the most powerful alien. I don't usually have any problems surviving S2 with a goon. I believe most of the kills made by aliens are by goon, still. It's much more effective than a marauder in widespread killwhoring albeit marauder is more fun, challenging and the most teamwork-able alien.
Most of the time tyrant wins against a lucifer (or it's a draw, both die), unless the lucifer can get some high ground from tight corridors etc. Still, the speedy 1.2 lucifer projectile is fairly easy to dodge, and you just have to time your attack against the lucifer right.
I don't really think the human team requires any more "spam" than "mara spam" or "tyrant spam" and so. And I would really argue that skilled chainsuits are a lot more of a problem than skilled lucifers.
The last one I do agree on, on high skill levels aliens generally require more effort to stay on par with humans of same skill level. Although I think that's mainly only because of the weak dretch and the advantage gained from killing dretches. Skilled goons for example annihilate skilled humans, and skilled marauders are usually on the same level as skilled humans.
From my experience with GPP, all of that was 100% spot-on. Sure because of the Dretch, a skilled human TEAM can straight-up own on a "better-than-average" Alien team, leaving a lot of people bitching about balance.
But when I get to play a round where both teams are equally-skilled, it still feels like anyone's game. Usually then, it all comes down to timing; who's flank was better timed against the others' rush, etc.
Anyway, Meisseli, that was all very well-said.
-
Y U NO DIE ME BITE UR FETE HRAD.
-
All these 10000 games statistics show is that devs want won/lost games even for both teams disregarding the quality of players in each of them.
They don't show that, and it isn't true. If you'd been paying attention (http://tremulous.net/forum/index.php?topic=12867.msg190444#msg190444) you'd know that player feedback and my personal experience playing the game have been overwhelmingly more influential in making changes than any statistic has. The reality is is that there is no better method available to us to balance the game than what we've been doing since the release of GPP, and for the types of games we've been balancing for we have been objectively successful.
-
All these 10000 games statistics show is that devs want won/lost games even for both teams disregarding the quality of players in each of them.
They don't show that, and it isn't true. If you'd been paying attention (http://tremulous.net/forum/index.php?topic=12867.msg190444#msg190444) you'd know that player feedback and my personal experience playing the game have been overwhelmingly more influential in making changes than any statistic has. The reality is is that there is no better method available to us to balance the game than what we've been doing since the release of GPP, and for the types of games we've been balancing for we have been objectively successful.
the balance is good although humans have a clear advantage as playercount goes up and aliens have an advantage when playercount is low but the midground is really balanced(midground is 8-10 vs 8-10 i think) also map imbalances is playing a big role atm not really game imbalances i would like to see a team of pro's vs a team of pro's to tweak the last little bit there's a few things in a good players hands that noone can stop(mainly tyrant charge)
-
ok i have not been on in a few years for various reasons but to come back to this crap
Mate are you paying for it?
if your answer is no
stfu and go make a mod for it.
if thats to hard stop making wars on the forum.
-
In tremulous you build something other then that you rush get kills for EVO or credits.
Now if you have ever played Natural Selection you start a game, build resource towers on strategic locations, build various buildings for various upgrades so the game really has strategic element.
I guess I'm the only guy here who played NS long enough ago to know this but, as fate would have it, after about the first year or so the NS devs actually restructured the entire format of their game and also removed a lot of the more in-depth RTS tactics to make the rounds much quicker.
At the time, I had never even heard of Gloom or Trem and so I had no frame of reference for their decision and just assumed the changes were made because all those little bullshit details Bl0w*Up mentioned above made each round take FOREVER. So long that when the round was done, you really didn't want to start another one. It was essentially a lot of work for very little pay off (and can you imagine being the comm or a builder and having to wait until the 30-minute mark to find out that the other team was completely stacked?)
Here's what the Wiki says about it:
"In v1, games were slower and often measured in hours. One of the stated aims of v2 was to address this, by introducing a broad range of changes to abilities, structures, etc."
Anyway, it wasn't until I discovered Trem that I finally realized what the NS devs were trying to imitate when they cut their game's concept in half. Too bad you guys had already made THAT game. Also, Trem aliens are FAR MORE fun to play than anything in NS. I'd love for some genius to go and make me an Adv. Mara mod for NS so that I can take on the dumb shit they call aliens in that game and show Bl0wUp EXACTLY what I mean.
Hey, Nux, wha'da you know about some Half-Life?