Tremulous Forum
Media => Map Releases => Topic started by: Xedoh on September 19, 2010, 10:06:15 am
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The planet Specula, an important colony of mankind, is heavily under siege by the aliens swarm. Expect the capital city, every human installation was overrun within the first hours of the invasion. While the main body of the swarm is constantly moving towards the city, preparing to crush the hastily erected defences, there is still a flicker of hope: The experimental Cerberus-Artillery, stationed in Specula-Base 3. However, this facility is already overrun by aliens. A special-forces team was sent out to regain control over the artillery, hoping the defenders of the city would hold out long enough.
Download b4:
http://caldazar.at/tremulous/base/map-specula_b4.pk3 (http://caldazar.at/tremulous/base/map-specula_b4.pk3)
Download older versions:
b1 (http://www.caldazar.at/tremulous/base/map-specula_b1.pk3)
b2 (http://www.caldazar.at/tremulous/base/map-specula_b2.pk3)
b3 (http://www.caldazar.at/tremulous/base/map-specula_b3.pk3)
Some screenies:
(http://img809.imageshack.us/img809/7722/powerline.jpg)
Back-Entrance to Alien-Base
(http://img809.imageshack.us/img809/6422/passagec.jpg)
A new corridor (connecting the drainage to the cooling system)
I hope you like the map.
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Very nice looking map! Kudos for an epic vent system, possibly best in any Trem map!
It's too easy to fall off the vent ladder at human base, maybe thicker ladder brush will help?
There is an overlapping brush/texture at -475 1675 -350
The vent elevator is missing a floor piece.
You should capitalize & color location names.
You might want to add a very tiny bit of ambient light, or more bouncelight during compile.
Perhaps make some station outside walls visible from panorama corridor?
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I like it very much. Good work Xedoh!
The vent-elevator is unique idea. I also love "light-tunnels", thats why it reminds me of orion which i like very much.
Here some suggestions:
I think you should make better water there.
In first shot, the water is not showing in all directions, and it's texture is too small (default)
In second shot, the water is not moving at all, it doesnt look really water.
(http://dtrem.com/files/specula.jpg)
PS. Mirrored: http://maps.dtrem.com/base/map-specula_b1.pk3 (http://maps.dtrem.com/base/map-specula_b1.pk3)
eDIT: I love <3 those vents!
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Fantastic looking and imaginatively put together map with tons of nice detail. You really do like vents don't you? ;D
My only real critisism is that its about as intuitive and disorientating as the default maps, especially with the vast vent network. I guess people will learn the map before too long, but a few more visual clues as to layout might not go amiss.
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Didnt test it in real gameplay yet, but looks fantastic.
Really nice job there, thanks.
BTW, uploaded to trem-spain
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Big improvement from your previous map, good work.
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Very good looking map. I have few comments, but... well. Main of them - too easy lock default alien base (one exit for huge aliens not enough imho) and in pipe manifold room you clipped space above rubes (between rails), its a bit unnatural. May be some grate there? And a lot of human-friendly nooks. With brave human team, aliens almost impossible rush builded in such nook h.base through massive bulletspam. =D
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Drazilox: that's not supposed to be water in 2nd screenshot :P
It's possible to evolve to goon at vent lasers and get stuck :( Also the lasers could disappear faster (you can override train speed at each path_corner).
Maybe give vent elevator some sound? Overall the map needs lots more ambient sounds.
Also at pipe manifold, the ceiling window is missing some textures on supports.
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Probably best newest map so far I've seen. Maybe I say it too early.
Are you using standard textures (atcs, Karith, so on)? It doesn't hurt my eyes, they actually look neat.
My only real critisism is that its about as intuitive and disorientating as the default maps, especially with the vast vent network. I guess people will learn the map before too long, but a few more visual clues as to layout might not go amiss.
It is indeed bit mazelike, and I missed some junctions in vents. Maybe some schematics on some points? But otherwise, I can't wait to crawl in there, and wait for humans or aliens...
Specula has awesome enviroment, but it definitely needs ambient sounds. But nothing that makes ears bleed type to reactor please. :o
Keep up the good work! ;)
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Glad you like the map ;D. I actually took a lot of effort into the vents because I have seen a lot of very detailed and good looking maps where the vents are just plain boxes. It seems like the work paid off.
It's too easy to fall off the vent ladder at human base, maybe thicker ladder brush will help?
There is an overlapping brush/texture at -475 1675 -350
The vent elevator is missing a floor piece.
You should capitalize & color location names.
You might want to add a very tiny bit of ambient light, or more bouncelight during compile.
Perhaps make some station outside walls visible from panorama corridor?
It's possible to evolve to goon at vent lasers and get stuck Sad Also the lasers could disappear faster (you can override train speed at each path_corner).
Maybe give vent elevator some sound? Overall the map needs lots more ambient sounds.
Also at pipe manifold, the ceiling window is missing some textures on supports.
I basically agree to all of your suggestions, however i have never encountered any problems with the ladder (I'll make it bigger anyway). It's also hard to avoid aliens being possible to evolve in there, so that won't change most likely. There's a little problem with the walls out of the panorama corridor: They'd look like they ended nowhere, but maybe I can find a solution.
Also, thanks for reporting the missing/overlapping brushes/textures.
I think you should make better water there.
In first shot, the water is not showing in all directions, and it's texture is too small (default)
In second shot, the water is not moving at all, it doesn't look really water.
I agree with the first body of water, I'm gonna fix that in the next version. However, the second one is, as pointed out by Uniq, no water, just a very plain grass-texture. Maybe I can find a better one.
Thanks for mirroring btw.
My only real criticism is that its about as intuitive and disorientating as the default maps, especially with the vast vent network. I guess people will learn the map before too long, but a few more visual clues as to layout might not go amiss.
Indeed, I'm thinking about adding some signs like in pulse or maybe a map.
Very good looking map. I have few comments, but... well. Main of them - too easy lock default alien base (one exit for huge aliens not enough imho) and in pipe manifold room you clipped space above rubes (between rails), its a bit unnatural. May be some grate there? And a lot of human-friendly nooks. With brave human team, aliens almost impossible rush builded in such nook h.base through massive bulletspam. =D
Yeah, I clipped that railing, I'll see what i can do about it. Humans indeed have some advantages in their starting base and the rest of the map. I'll try giving aliens some better alternative places to build.
Are you using standard textures (atcs, Karith, so on)? It doesn't hurt my eyes, they actually look neat.
Indeed. I think they don't really look as bad as some people claim.
Concerning the sounds: As mentioned in the main post, there will be sounds and ambient in the next version.
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Really nice. Looks detailed from the screen shots. I will test it as soon as possible... And I like that story.. Pretty cool... (modified) 10min later):) O.K man this map deserves to be on the official U.S server :o Really man... Good job...
the map is really huge witch is awesome. I couldnt even find the alien base. took me a minute to find humen base... ::) Awsome. Made me want to explore it like I was actually there. Some areas of the map are really dark I got lost with spectator camera ::) Keep up the good work though... Really nice vehicle models too... I really like that... I give you 2 thumbs up sir ;D
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Added to servers:
R Funserver CZ (1.1)
R Unlimited CZ (1.2)
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I think it'd be a good idea to put in a schematic map in a central spot somewhere, or in the default bases perhaps. That'd be a great help!
Also, probably a ridiculous thing to say, but maybe this could replace tremor in 1.2? With xedoh's permission of course, and if custom maps will be included at all.
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Also, probably a ridiculous thing to say, but maybe this could replace tremor in 1.2? With xedoh's permission of course, and if custom maps will be included at all.
Wat. Replace tremor? Why?
Its not a perfect map but its far from bad enough to need replacing. There are few enough default maps which people know and get played already.
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Also, probably a ridiculous thing to say, but maybe this could replace tremor in 1.2? With xedoh's permission of course, and if custom maps will be included at all.
Tremulous doesn't have a limit to the number of maps (except for the number of .pk3 files loaded) so why would it need to replace something?
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Also, probably a ridiculous thing to say, but maybe this could replace tremor in 1.2? With xedoh's permission of course, and if custom maps will be included at all.
Tremulous doesn't have a limit to the number of maps (except for the number of .pk3 files loaded) so why would it need to replace something?
I didn't necessarily mean replace -the map-, tremor is decent though personally I dont like it, but I meant it more like replace the status of <default map with vents>, I was kinda vague there though
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Well I'd love to see one of my maps in the next release, however not as long as they are only in beta stage (which all (both) of my maps currently are). If I can complete specula before 1.2 release, and ofc if custom maps get added, I'd really like to include it.
I personally don't think that tremor is a bad map (as long as you don't look at the .map-file *shudders*). Anyway, the post is not about discussing tremor.
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b2 is out.
Changes are mostly design-wise, but also some (minor) gameplay-changes have been made. For a list of changes consult the readme.
Enjoy
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New DL Link goes to beta 1.
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"Status: incative" :'(
(The specula.txt also contains typos: 'paticles', 'comiled')
From the 'Reactors' ceiling window it's possible to see a part of the walls of artillery.
Tiny missing polygons above garden on gallery window frames. May be related: A ton of "WARNING: CM_GridPlane unresolvable" messages
Other then that, it's awesome AWESOME.
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K, download-link fixed.
o_O Typos :-[
I thought i had fixed the part with the reactors, will take a look at it.
I don't really get what's wrong with the polygons at the garden. Theyx look fine in the editor. Maybe I'll just replace the brushes a whole
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1st: Still same problem in Water Tank - stretch water surface, its have weird looks right now. Stretch it about x4 times or more.
2nd: Still two ways in alien base, which can be easy blocked by humans.
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This map rocks.... i love the ventilation trap :laugh: i always camp there as a human.
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This map rocks.... i love the ventilation trap :laugh: i always camp there as a human.
Never boast about your ability to camp. It can only get you into trouble.
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As I just see this got dug up:
I've found time again to work on b3, but I have no idea about the current balance of the map. Does it even get played? Has anyone got any experience with a major imbalance? Please, I need some feedback.
Oh and @CATAHA
The water texture was already enlarged from 0.5 to 2.0 in b2. But I couldn't spot any difference at all, so I thought it didn't work. I'll try enlarging it further.
As for the alien base. I originally intended for aliens to move out, but thinking about it there are probably only few good base-locations. I don't know if a further entrance would make it too weak. I also though about a teleporter in the base to the outside, but that might be totally imba. It's also a question of general balance whether the alien-base needs change.
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Xedoh: don't know how it is on standard server, but on R funserver CZ (there is often played) can be human base horribly campy. Humans will build few containers in front of doors like defense from rushing aliens, they mine entrances and aliens have hard times. Besides, that one human entrance with half transparent wall is good for campers too.
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Xedoh: don't know how it is on standard server, but on R funserver CZ (there is often played) can be human base horribly campy. Humans will build few containers in front of doors like defense from rushing aliens, they mine entrances and aliens have hard times. Besides, that one human entrance with half transparent wall is good for campers too.
Sounds like thats a server issue to me.....
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Xedoh: don't know how it is on standard server, but on R funserver CZ (there is often played) can be human base horribly campy. Humans will build few containers in front of doors like defense from rushing aliens, they mine entrances and aliens have hard times. Besides, that one human entrance with half transparent wall is good for campers too.
Sounds like thats a server issue to me.....
It is. Can you do this on other server? :P Sorry being so nitpick.
I've found time again to work on b3, but I have no idea about the current balance of the map. Does it even get played? Has anyone got any experience with a major imbalance? Please, I need some feedback.
I'll give you my initial feedback about your map, although, the time I've played, is way too minimal to give you any significant info. But few seeds better than none, yes?
But to point. I think alien team base is defensible, but it doesn't got good routes to escape, unlike humans have. Also, humans can easily trap aliens, as the crawlway reactor access to alien base is too close to main attack route. I would suggest that aliens move to reactor room, or you need to figure new route. That is my main concern.
Other than that, I think you need to use more clip on some points. Aliens can have a hard time to escape/attack, when you get stuck between supports. :P
Other than these, I can't find nothing else that annoys me on this masterwork map. ;)
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Thank you for your input. It really helps me.
Rotacak, what you said is truly a server issue, however, I think I'll at least 'close' the doors at the human base (not the wall near the vents), so they can't be shot through.
I'll give you my initial feedback about your map, although, the time I've played, is way too minimal to give you any significant info. But few seeds better than none, yes?
Sure, everything is appreciated.
But to point. I think alien team base is defensible, but it doesn't got good routes to escape, unlike humans have. Also, humans can easily trap aliens, as the crawlway reactor access to alien base is too close to main attack route. I would suggest that aliens move to reactor room, or you need to figure new route. That is my main concern.
I can't really add much there due to already low fps in the area. Maybe some junctions in the vent, that lead to places further away. As i think about it, a one-way-teleporter to the outside also becomes more and more attractive to me.
Other than that, I think you need to use more clip on some points. Aliens can have a hard time to escape/attack, when you get stuck between supports.
Lol, I often though if maybe I was clipping too much :D. I'll add some here and there.
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Lol, I often though if maybe I was clipping too much :D. I'll add some here and there.
They said clipping is overrated, I said there's never too much clip....
;)
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I get a whole slew of error messages when I try to run this map, and the screen freezes, then the server crashes.
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Hmm I already know about the errors, but I haven't had a crash because of them before. Sorry for that :-\. They are already fixed in the version I'm working on, thanks to Uniq and gimhael. If I don't encounter any further problems, I might be able to release b3 soon.
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Since my server is basically running KoRx, which is finicky sometimes with compatibilities, it's probably less tolerant of weird accumulations of errors when loading a map.
Looking forward to trying again anyway :) Looks like it could be a brilliant map
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It's been some time and I admit I've been lazy. Well, anyway, b3 is out :).
There are bigger gameplay-changes now: Another room as well as a new way to get away from the alien base. I'm really keen on knowing if it was a change for the better or the worse. Full changelog once again in the readme.
I'm still looking for proper sounds for the artillery and the vent-elevator. If anybody got something good that would be great.
Since all errors/warnings are fixed in this version (at least afaik), I'd really like to see it on the official server. This would greatly help me getting some data about balancing. This is most likely going to be the last beta, as long as there is no major imbalance.
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Excellent ;D
The long thin lights on walls between passage and storage don't look very good, and IMO should be changed. Maybe with something like is in reactors?
Perhaps a few plants in garden? Then again that place isn't exactly getting a lot of sun xD. What about the grass area near human base?
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*CorSair drools
With two other escape/assault routes to alien default, gameplay issue seems to be only minor thing on this map.
And now I hope it is just about details right...? ;)
I'm still looking for proper sounds for the artillery and the vent-elevator. If anybody got something good that would be great.
I'll try to find some, although I don't have high hopes finding right ones. :P
And I would like to see this in officials too. This map has high qualities, both in looks as well in gameplay.
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I've been loving this map since first release and finally new release!
+Mirrored (http://maps.dtrem.com/base/map-specula_b3.pk3)
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Very good map. The first time I played it, I put an egg hidden in the cooling place (the room with the round red light ring at the end and the vent in the ceiling) and aliens managed to stay alive with one egg after the om had gone down for almost 10 minutes, camping the laser trap was hilarious.
I f1.
-K
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It is too bad you can't enter the area with the big artillery gun.
Other than that this is the best map I have tried so far.
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I've seen in the gamelogs that there are plenty people complaining about missing textures all of a sudden (haven't seen it myself however). This, and the fact that I now have some data about the map's balance (18x aliens win; 23x humans win; 5x tie; 1 draw) made me decide to work on b4 now.
I assume the texture-problem has something to do with the default maps being replaced (I have therefor decided to include all the textures in the .pk3 itself to avoid this in future versions. This will, however, drastically increase the file-size.)
The actual reason I'm posting this is that, for b4, I wanted to ask the people who played the map to give me a bit of feedback on how to get the balance better. (Humans won about 50% of the games, aliens just 40%. I have 2 ideas I'd really like to know your opinion about
- I intended to nerf the cooling system (by cutting the grids that separate the room, so aliens (up to maras) and jetpackers can climb/jump/fly across them). Do you think that's a good idea? I don't want the room to be a useless place for a base, but I think it's too strong atm.
- Should I close the wall near the human base (at the ladder to the vent), so humans can't shoot through anymore?
It would also be nice to know where I should do something about the clipping (besides the maintenance corridor, I already know it's horrible).
I also wanted to encourage the people that constantly cry in-game about how crappy the map is to give me some actual feedback here. I'm not saying you have to like my map and I'm not asking you to not express your opinion, but I'd really like to know WHY you don't like it. I can't really fix what's wrong if you don't tell me.
I appreciate any feedback and/or criticism.
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The main problem with the map is that there are multiple rooms that make too good bases for both teams. Due to this the gameplay is pretty bad, a 30-45 minute camp game where Sudden Death decides the outcome of the game, if it does.
Such rooms are: Artillery Control (alien default), Storage (human default), Cooling System. Alien default for example has basically only a single entrance. The other two aren't proper entrances: one of them is only accessible with jetpack, and the other one is a vent that is either accessible by jetpack or by an entrance really close to the alien base itself. Those two other entrances are not good enough to be used properly by humans, and such the alien default with its single entrance is almost as horrible as the Window Room in Niveus. The corridors leading to the single entrance are very good for aliens also, I would suggest adding another entrance to the alien base with a more wider area around it.
Cooling System has only one entrance again, with a single vent being no option for either team to attack the heavily fortified base from. It makes for the best base in the map for both teams to move into, I haven't seen anyone losing a match after moving there.
Human default is extremely campable. The vent isn't an option to attack from since it's easily blocked and doesn't allow bigger aliens to pass through. The vent area allows humans to deal so heavy damage to aliens coming from Passage that that entrance isn't an option at all. Once again we're down to one single entrance, the Panorama Corridor, but it has a longer route and nobody ever uses it, which leads to my next point:
(http://dl.dropbox.com/u/18542862/images/shot0001ed.jpg) (http://dl.dropbox.com/u/18542862/images/shot0001ed.jpg)
The map is designed so that there's a fast route (marked cyan) leading to human base with the middle area (marked yellow) being straightforward and very fast for aliens and humans to travel through. There's not much incentive to use any other routes since they are harder to navigate and take longer to travel through. The Panorama Corridor route (marked green) is used very occasionally by lone humans/aliens. With no action, nobody wants to attack through there. With the base locations being where they are, 50% of the map is left completely unused (marked grey): again because of a long route and no action happening at all.
All in all the map certainly is nice-looking, has an interesting reddish theme and a nice vent system, and has plenty of potential, but the gameplay isn't fun. Some rooms definitely need to be made weaker, and perhaps the layout of the map needs re-thinking, since so much of the map is left unused.
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I find myself using the panorama corridor a lot against alien default, actually. Unfortunately, there is only one effective path (the fast path) to cooling system from human default.
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Xedoh, here's that sound I said I'd get you. (http://www.mediafire.com/?2z3841zcs8hw86x)
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Xedoh, here's that sound I said I'd get you. (http://www.mediafire.com/?2z3841zcs8hw86x)
Music to my ears.
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Meisseli's post is really informative and I for one hope that some of it is acted upon because this map has a lot of potential to go from pretty good to great.
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Thank you very much for the advice meisseli. I have been thinking and I came up with something that might work:
(http://img405.imageshack.us/img405/5613/planbe.png)
The light green routes are, as meisseli pointed out, almost the only ones used. My idea was to cut the route through the passage (crossed out brown), forcing players to take the longer route through the maintenance-corridors (dark green).
The red one (leading through the gallery) is currently hardly ever being used. However, if I cut the way from the artillery to the reactors (crossed out brown) and instead create a way from the reactors to the back of the alien base (brown line), this way might become more appealing, especially to humans. I know that the light green route will still be faster, however I think the back door should be easier to attack in return.
The problem I see with those changes is that the route through the passage (and the maintenance-corridors now) might become highly unattractive. I however think that this area has some nice base spots, which might put the focus there in the lategame. Another point I'm afraid of is that this (especially the alien backdoor) might shift the balance even more towards humans.
Thoughts about that?
Xedoh, here's that sound I said I'd get you. (http://www.mediafire.com/?2z3841zcs8hw86x)
Niceeee! That sound is a shitload better than the current one. However, it's very quiet. You got any way to get it louder without messing up the quality?
EDIT: Just added a screenshot of the current cooling system (see attachment, editor view). Might still be too strong.
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I tried the sound in-game and yes it sound pitifully quiet and also gains some nasty noise.
My guess (and this is an utter guess) is that there's some sort of compression going on here that ruins the sound, and that the sound needs to be compressed beforehand in a more sensible way. Sadly, I've no idea what quality it reduces to or how to reduce it. Some help would be appreciated because what I've tried just hasn't worked.
EDIT: well this is the best I could do with it after working on it for much too long.
artillery.wav (http://www.mediafire.com/?ekf59gictoqah8d)
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Thank you very very very much for that. It still more quiet than the original sound, but I don't think anyone will mind due to the huge increase in quality. ;D ;D ;D
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I like the map very much, underneath you in the human base I have noticed the train. Is there a way for you to give access to that train? It might make the game very much more interesting.
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I like the map very much, underneath you in the human base I have noticed the train. Is there a way for you to give access to that train? It might make the game very much more interesting.
The train goes out of the map. I hope you like watching the human team scamper away from the fight.
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I like the map very much, underneath you in the human base I have noticed the train. Is there a way for you to give access to that train? It might make the game very much more interesting.
The train goes out of the map. I hope you like watching the human team scamper away from the fight.
What if the train goes from one end to the other and back again. That way there could be an Indiana Jones train fight as well.
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I've been off tremulous for a while but when i checked tremstats i saw, to my surprise, that specula is one of the most played custom maps on us1 (after nano, orion and UTCS). Thanks to all who play (and maybe vote for) the map. While I'm kinda proud of that, a look at the map's balance was not that nice (although it was not really unsurprising). So I dug out radiant again and completed working on b4.
Beta 4 has some major design changes as seen in the picture a few topics back (and an additional route from the drainage to cooling). It is experimental, so for the next version it might (partly) return back to b3 (depending which way it is more balanced). I also nerfed the cooling system, changed alien-default and blocked off the wall near the human base.
The file-size got considerably bigger because I now included all textures (those from default maps) in the .pk3 itself. This is because the change of the default-maps messed the textures on specula up badly and I don't want something like this to happen again.
A big "thank you" to Nux again for the new artillery-sound he provided :).
Other changes are better clipping in some areas and some improved brushwork/detailing.
I'd like to know where to add more/better clipping and in which areas you think the map needs more detail. I'm still looking for a sound when the vent-elevator starts, some kind off beeping noise would be fine.
As for the train, I won't make it accessible because trains are generally quite buggy. Also, accessible outside areas are hard to design well.
dl-link in the main post
Have fun!
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Looking good! I look forward to playing some big games on this map.
Cheers!
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Damn - I totally missed this one. The new version hasn't been played almost at all - should vote it in the official servers one day and test it out!