Tremulous Forum
Community => Strategies and Tactics => Topic started by: SirDude on November 01, 2010, 12:38:45 am
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I LOVE DODGING, so much so that sometimes people think im lagging and warp sometimes. but what i have come to realize that people use pounce WAY more then bite in 1.2 even in very short ranges, this isnt a issue for me with a normal goon, i have a 45/45% chance of dodging out of the way in the most common of situations and a 10% of having lag play a hand, but with the avd goon's wider hit area, i have a 35% chance of dodging in common situation and a 55% chance of getting kill by JUST THE VERY CORNER of the goon, and again with a 10% chance of lag playing a hand.
these numbers are based off personal experience with the popular and default maps and players of a lower skillfulness, as I and more advanced players tend to use a mix of pounce and bite, as that makes a strong alround goon.
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I'm pretty sure both regular and advanced goon pounce widths have been calculated quite decisively and that to reduce them would give some edge to individual human players, which is something that is undesired by the development and is pretty much one of the major guiding topics behind the balancing.
Also...
(http://stats.tremulous.net/tremstats/us1/player_sig.php?player_id=11723&style=0)
Noted.
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these numbers are based off personal experience with the popular and default maps and players of a lower skillfulness, such as I, and more advanced players tend to use a mix of pounce and bite, as that makes a strong alround goon.
Fixed. A small grammatical error. Also, in FSW. 'Nuff said.
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(http://images.encyclopediadramatica.com/images/e/e1/Zabityprzezogien.gif)
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I have a 90% chance of my adv. goon getting stuck on a doorframe before being gunned down by whoever was chasing me. Now, this is primarily because i am astonishingly poor with a goon of any description, but especially the chunky model, so if its pounce radius is currently a bit larger to make up for its relatively poor manoeuvrability i see no problem with that.
Of course, as i'm utterly useless when it comes to gooning, my opinion is basically worthless.
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At least you admit it. >.>
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chunky model
Yes.
(http://mislav.uniqpath.com/poignant-guide/images/the.foxes-4f.png)
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I'm a bad player and I get pwned by goon pounces :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :dragoon:
That's cool, but you don't have to make a thread about it. Just ask for assisstance. No guide this time. Just stop sucking and quit yer bitchin'
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I'm a unfunny troll thinking I'm being a smart ass while making a fool of myself :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'(
That's cool, but you don't have follow someone to make up for it. Just GTFO. trolling isn't your knack anyway, Just stop sucking and quit yer failn'
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It's sometimes tricky to distinguish between the game's shortcomings and one's own.
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It's sometimes tricky to distinguish between the game's shortcomings and another players.
Fixed
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(http://stats.tremulous.net/tremstats/us1/player_sig.php?player_id=11723&style=2)
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OOOOOOOOOOO i guess i'm just try to ruin this then huh?
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OOOOOOOOOOO i guess i'm just try to ruin this then huh?
Work on grammar. Kthx
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i think its funny that instead of people actually working with each other to improve the game, they seem hellbent on attacking each other over the game.
let this thread be a great example...
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i think its funny that instead of people actually working with each other to improve the game, they seem hellbent on attacking each other over the game.
I'm sure the development team would love your input, but if they don't, why not make a fork with these hideous injustices rectified? This is an open-source game, after all. Instead of complaining, fix it.
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i think its funny that instead of people actually working with each other to improve the game, they seem hellbent on attacking each other over the game.
I'm sure the development team would love your input, but if they don't, why not make a fork with these hideous injustices rectified? This is an open-source game, after all. Instead of complaining, fix it.
ah, lets keep flaming each other instead of letting the dev team know whats doing well and whats not, so they can be a better development team, i see your point.
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i think its funny that instead of people actually working with each other to improve the game, they seem hellbent on attacking each other over the game.
I'm sure the development team would love your input, but if they don't, why not make a fork with these hideous injustices rectified? This is an open-source game, after all. Instead of complaining, fix it.
ah, lets keep flaming each other instead of letting the dev team know whats doing well and whats not, so they can be a better development team, i see your point.
Um, clearly YOU are the only one that has a problem with it.
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i think its funny that instead of people actually working with each other to improve the game, they seem hellbent on attacking each other over the game.
I'm sure the development team would love your input, but if they don't, why not make a fork with these hideous injustices rectified? This is an open-source game, after all. Instead of complaining, fix it.
ah, lets keep flaming each other instead of letting the dev team know whats doing well and whats not, so they can be a better development team, i see your point.
He hardly flamed you, you're complaining about various aspects of the game which are, presumably, as the devs intended, while making these complaints you're attracting a fair bit of attention from experienced players(of GPP) who aren't entirely won over by your argument.
Now, these are just players, with no real vested interest, you're not criticising their work, and they're not overly impressed with you, so what makes you imagine that the devs are going to be delighted to implement your changes?
If these changes feel important to you then, as already suggested, why not get a team of likeminded tremmers together to hack on a mod to implement them? If they make for a superior experience then who knows what could happen...
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i think its funny that instead of people actually working with each other to improve the game, they seem hellbent on attacking each other over the game.
I'm sure the development team would love your input, but if they don't, why not make a fork with these hideous injustices rectified? This is an open-source game, after all. Instead of complaining, fix it.
ah, lets keep flaming each other instead of letting the dev team know whats doing well and whats not, so they can be a better development team, i see your point.
He hardly flamed you, you're complaining about various aspects of the game which are, presumably, as the devs intended, while making these complaints you're attracting a fair bit of attention from experienced players(of GPP) who aren't entirely won over by your argument.
Now, these are just players, with no real vested interest, you're not criticising their work, and they're not overly impressed with you, so what makes you imagine that the devs are going to be delighted to implement your changes?
If these changes feel important to you then, as already suggested, why not get a team of likeminded tremmers together to hack on a mod to implement them? If they make for a superior experience then who knows what could happen...
I didn't say HE flamed me, what i said was he was ignoring the fact that people are not really talking about the subject of the thread, but are criticizing ME over what im talking about.
im not really complaining but more of suggesting things can be improved farther, for the most part GPP is pretty balanced, just a few touch ups here and there and its a pretty balanced game, like the avd goon pounce is just wide enough so in many core doors ,a left and right dodge will get not get you out of the way of a pounce, so you can only dodge backwards, and with a pounce that almost always fails.
and as for modding trem, i don't know if it would be worth the effort in the first place as from what your telling me, nobody would play it due to the "experienced players" saying it sucks like the diehard 1.1 fans with 1.2? and if it DID take off it might split the community even farther and as it stand would NOT be good.
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So you're concerned about splitting the community by releasing such an awesome mod but, at the same time, you're also concerned that no one would play the thing anyway(shitty mods are wildly popular in 1.1, maybe you'd attract some of the anti-gpp crowd)?
If even you aren't convinced that it's worth bothering with your proposed changes, well, i guess that says it all.
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fuck up sirdude with all your petty indifferences!
im sick of your shit
oh its bloody conspiracy, oh turrets arent buff enough, oh the pounce box is too wide...
whats next?! grangers aren't cute enough? tyrants aren't tyrannic enough?!
there is a certain degree of critic input that puts it at a level above which it drops its constructive nature and takes on the form of petty complaining...
tl:dr stop complaining about everything or i will bust your chops.
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fuck up sirdude with all your petty indifferences!
im sick of your shit
oh its bloody conspiracy, oh turrets arent buff enough, oh the pounce box is too wide...
whats next?! grangers aren't cute enough? tyrants aren't tyrannic enough?!
there is a certain degree of critic input that puts it at a level above which it drops its constructive nature and takes on the form of petty complaining...
tl:dr stop complaining about everything or i will bust your chops.
<3
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I LOVE DODGING, so much so that sometimes people think im lagging and warp sometimes. but what i have come to realize that people use pounce WAY more then bite in 1.2 even in very short ranges, this isnt a issue for me with a normal goon, i have a 45/45% chance of dodging out of the way in the most common of situations and a 10% of having lag play a hand, but with the avd goon's wider hit area, i have a 35% chance of dodging in common situation and a 55% chance of getting kill by JUST THE VERY CORNER of the goon, and again with a 10% chance of lag playing a hand.
these numbers are based off personal experience with the popular and default maps and players of a lower skillfulness, as I and more advanced players tend to use a mix of pounce and bite, as that makes a strong alround goon.
I hope you realise that normal goon pounce and adv goon pounce have the exact same width.
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fuck up sirdude with all your petty indifferences!
im sick of your shit
oh its bloody conspiracy, oh turrets arent buff enough, oh the pounce box is too wide...
whats next?! grangers aren't cute enough? tyrants aren't tyrannic enough?!
there is a certain degree of critic input that puts it at a level above which it drops its constructive nature and takes on the form of petty complaining...
tl:dr stop complaining about everything or i will bust your chops.
AH HA HA HA HA HA! why Am I, just one trem player, why am i making you so angry? you obviously haven't read a single thread i have posted, buffing rets, nope i say adding a 1 more that's more expensive and is made to make up for a turrets short comings, wide goon pounce? its more then that, its that people are using pounce is becoming overused and on a normal goon that isn't a problem, but with the avd it becomes more clear.
conspiracy? that has NOTHING to do with the game, its all about the PLAYERS, people like you who act like elitist asshats, i mean when i questioned "conspiracy" you came here to "defend" your self with lots of insults and lies, and ever since, you have followed me around calling me names, and lying to people when i say nothing about you.
But you know....
(http://images.encyclopediadramatica.com/images/7/7b/Obvioustroll.jpg)
I hope you realise that normal goon pounce and adv goon pounce have the exact same width.
i kinda doubt that, i haven't looked at the gpp updates within the past week, but i have my doubts from what i and many others have stated.
(EDIT)- yes it is, that still makes me wonder why i can dodge around a normal goon in a tight hallway but with the AVd i can't, well i still think im right when i say pounce is being overused, and backward dodge is almost always useless.
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(EDIT)- yes it is, that still makes me wonder why i can dodge around a normal goon in a tight hallway but with the AVd i can't, well i still think im right when i say pounce is being overused, and backward dodge is almost always useless.
Of course you think you're right, you're incapable of thinking otherwise. So, pounce is simply overused now? But surely your original concern was the larger pounce width of the "avd good", you even made up a load of figures to back up your argument, iirc.
I LOVE DODGING, so much so that sometimes people think im lagging and warp sometimes. but what i have come to realize that people use pounce WAY more then bite in 1.2 even in very short ranges, this isnt a issue for me with a normal goon, i have a 45/45% chance of dodging out of the way in the most common of situations and a 10% of having lag play a hand, but with the avd goon's wider hit area, i have a 35% chance of dodging in common situation and a 55% chance of getting kill by JUST THE VERY CORNER of the goon, and again with a 10% chance of lag playing a hand.
these numbers are based off personal experience with the popular and default maps and players of a lower skillfulness, as I and more advanced players tend to use a mix of pounce and bite, as that makes a strong alround goon.
If these players who overuse pounce are, in doing so, not playing a strong all-round goon, shouldn't this have a negative impact on their overall performance?
You have a tendency to adjust your original argument the moment someone picks it apart, just stop and let all of your threads die, please.
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(EDIT)- yes it is, that still makes me wonder why i can dodge around a normal goon in a tight hallway but with the AVd i can't, well i still think im right when i say pounce is being overused, and backward dodge is almost always useless.
Ah good, you have conceded and moved on to complaining about something else.
backward dodge is almost always useless.
This has nothing to do with your original complaint... or your new one. Is it a segue to your next thread?
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SirDude wants to be like uncle sheridanm.
Also, stop posting the fucking pic everywhere.
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(EDIT)- yes it is, that still makes me wonder why i can dodge around a normal goon in a tight hallway but with the AVd i can't, well i still think im right when i say pounce is being overused, and backward dodge is almost always useless.
Ah good, you have conceded and moved on to complaining about something else.
backward dodge is almost always useless.
This has nothing to do with your original complaint... or your new one. Is it a segue to your next thread?
I smell a sequellll!!
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Of course you think you're right, you're incapable of thinking otherwise. So, pounce is simply overused now? But surely your original concern was the larger pounce width of the "avd good", you even made up a load of figures to back up your argument, iirc. its more then that, its that people are using pounce is becoming overused and on a normal goon that isn't a problem, but with the avd that wider hit in itself can keep even good dodgers in front of the goon, and in reasonable sized hallways, it cam become more of a problem.
If these players who overuse pounce are, in doing so, not playing a strong all-round goon, shouldn't this have a negative impact on their overall performance? people who use nothing but pounce tend to only attack a reasonably arm/armored person is when the area is to their advantage, IE tight hallways, small rooms, and places with lots of inward corners. and with the Avds wide area this helps to keep the person in front of them.
You have a tendency to adjust your original argument the moment someone picks it apart, just stop and let all of your threads die, please. im not a troll, I don't stick with crazy ideas and listen to nobody but myself, calling everybody wrong, i will admit when im wrong but not ignore any valid points i have made.
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Of course you think you're right, you're incapable of thinking otherwise. So, pounce is simply overused now? But surely your original concern was the larger pounce width of the "avd good", you even made up a load of figures to back up your argument, iirc. its more then that, its that people are using pounce is becoming overused and on a normal goon that isn't a problem, but with the avd that wider hit in itself can keep even good dodgers in front of the goon, and in reasonable sized hallways, it cam become more of a problem.
If these players who overuse pounce are, in doing so, not playing a strong all-round goon, shouldn't this have a negative impact on their overall performance? people who use nothing but pounce tend to only attack a reasonably arm/armored person is when the area is to their advantage, IE tight hallways, small rooms, and places with lots of inward corners. and with the Avds wide area this helps to keep the person in front of them.
You have a tendency to adjust your original argument the moment someone picks it apart, just stop and let all of your threads die, please. im not a troll, I don't stick with crazy ideas and listen to nobody but myself, calling everybody wrong, i will admit when im wrong but not ignore any valid points i have made.
For fuck's sake, man! learn to quote properly, don't just insert your text into my bloody quotes...
You certainly appear to be a troll, if not a troll then a kid who really doesn't know when to stop, just shut up now and either learn to play trem or stop altogether, i'm fairly sure you're the only person around here who automatically blames the game for any difficulties they experience, rather than considering the possibility that they may simply play to a very poor standard, it's getting embarrassing. Please, spend more time playing and less complaining, you never know, you might improve.
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Shut the fuck up and don't play this game anymore.
Fucking scared of advanced goons FUCK THEIR POUNCE TOO WIDE I LOVE TO DODGE BUT NOT WHEN ITS AN ADVANCED GOON U STUPID DEVS U STUPID PROS
Eat shit and live to taste it.
He can't tho, he keeps dying from the Advanced Goon pounce. WICH IZ UNFIAR MAN FXI IT NAO
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its more then that, its that people are using pounce is becoming overused and on a normal goon that isn't a problem, but with the avd that wider hit in itself
Are you kidding me?
I hope you realise that normal goon pounce and adv goon pounce have the exact same width.
i kinda doubt that, i haven't looked at the gpp updates within the past week, but i have my doubts from what i and many others have stated.
(EDIT)- yes it is, that still makes me wonder why i can dodge around a normal goon in a tight hallway but with the AVd i can't, well i still think im right when i say pounce is being overused, and backward dodge is almost always useless.
people who use nothing but pounce tend to only attack a reasonably arm/armored person is when the area is to their advantage, IE tight hallways, small rooms, and places with lots of inward corners. and with the Avds wide area this helps to keep the person in front of them.
This statement is also incorrect.
im not a troll, I don't stick with crazy ideas and listen to nobody but myself
You seem to be sticking to the crazy idea that Adv. goon pounce is wider than the normal goon pounce. (it isn't)
Pounce width for both: 14u
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its more then that, its that people are using pounce is becoming overused and on a normal goon that isn't a problem, but with the avd that wider hit in itself
Are you kidding me?
I hope you realise that normal goon pounce and adv goon pounce have the exact same width.
i kinda doubt that, i haven't looked at the gpp updates within the past week, but i have my doubts from what i and many others have stated.
(EDIT)- yes it is, that still makes me wonder why i can dodge around a normal goon in a tight hallway but with the AVd i can't, well i still think im right when i say pounce is being overused, and backward dodge is almost always useless.
people who use nothing but pounce tend to only attack a reasonably arm/armored person is when the area is to their advantage, IE tight hallways, small rooms, and places with lots of inward corners. and with the Avds wide area this helps to keep the person in front of them.
This statement is also incorrect.
im not a troll, I don't stick with crazy ideas and listen to nobody but myself
You seem to be sticking to the crazy idea that Adv. goon pounce is wider than the normal goon pounce. (it isn't)
Pounce width for both: 14u
I meant the avds goons hit box itself not the pounce hit box, sorry if i didn't clarify that a bit more.
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So now you're complaining about how big adv. goon hitbox is? ::)
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Great quote etiquette there.
And nice work with the consistent argument too.
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Just wondering... How can something like the pounce be "overused" if it's supposed to be used a lot? It's literally the thing that makes a goon a goon. Take it away and it's like a huge marauder that can't wallhop.
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im very sure that that the goon was not meant to use almost nothing but pounce, it has to many advantages over disadvantages as a primary attack, i can list a few "understandable" ones if you want..
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Of course it wasn't. Just like a marauder isn't supposed to bounce off walls like a rubber ball with sharp claws, and just like a dretch isn't supposed to walk on them. The dragoon has awesome pouncing range because the developers made it that way. But what I don't get is why you're complaining that the advanced goon is better at it than the standard one. That's because it's advanced. It costs one more evo, which makes it harder to get, and that keeps it at least somewhat balanced.
...So what's the problem again?
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Of course it wasn't. Just like a marauder isn't supposed to bounce off walls like a rubber ball with sharp claws, and just like a dretch isn't supposed to walk on them. The dragoon has awesome pouncing range because the developers made it that way. But what I don't get is why you're complaining that the advanced goon is better at it than the standard one. That's because it's advanced. It costs one more evo, which makes it harder to get, and that keeps it at least somewhat balanced.
...So what's the problem again?
Well, the problem was: Re: avd good pounce is just a smuge too wide?
with the avd goon's wider hit area, i have a 35% chance of dodging
...and then it was:
I meant the avds goons hit box itself not the pounce hit box
...and now it's: im very sure that that the goon was not meant to use almost nothing but pounce
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So? HE HAS A RIGHT TO CHANGE HIS MIND....
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...and now it's: im very sure that that the goon was not meant to use almost nothing but pounce
don't take it out of context like that, i was just answering his question.
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ITT: SirDude thinks that using dodge should make him escape everything, and when he fails, its Trem's fault that he cant dance.
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I have a demo of myself taking down a goon from full hp with a mass driver- which I suck at. I just shot it today, in fact. Maybe I should show him how it's done?
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Please do.
I am terrible with the mass driver and want to see how it's done.
I prefer the shotgun, but need to diversify.
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Yeah, demo please.
I always miserably fail at driving the mass away. :(
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For those who didn't already know, you can dodge immediately after landing from a regular jump. I use it often and it works great since the stamina loss from jumping is now nothing compared to what it was in 1.1. Jumping in one direction and then dodging in the complete opposite is excellent.
You still have to time everything right since I'm pretty sure pings make it hard to judge if an incoming goon pounce will hit you or not.
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This is getting kind of off-topic, but here ya go:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7PVM0w8mzCk&fmt=22 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7PVM0w8mzCk&fmt=22)
Honestly, I kind of sucked that time, but the point remains.
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yes this is getting off topic, but i have to say you really worked that area to your advantage, when that guy pounced, he got stuck on those corners in that hallway.
i have to say with that aim and if i was that goon, you would have been dead, that guy just missed to many openings.
and if i was in your role with that guy as the goon, i don't know, when i get the Md, i will ether rock with it, or i will fail, but i tend to rock with it after a match as i warm up.
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yes this is getting off topic, but i have to say you really worked that area to your advantage, when that guy pounced, he got stuck on those corners in that hallway.
i have to say with that aim and if i was that goon, you would have been dead, that guy just missed to many openings.
and if i was in your role with that guy as the goon, i don't know, when i get the Md, i will ether rock with it, or i will fail, but i tend to rock with it after a match as i warm up.
SirDude. you are correct.
this is going off topic a bit now.
Now, back onto the pressing matter...
do you fold or scrunch your toilet paper?
i personally use the scrunching method.
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This is getting kind of off-topic, but here ya go:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7PVM0w8mzCk&fmt=22 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7PVM0w8mzCk&fmt=22)
Honestly, I kind of sucked that time, but the point remains.
That's one of the longest battles with a goon I've ever seen.
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This is getting kind of off-topic, but here ya go:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7PVM0w8mzCk&fmt=22 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7PVM0w8mzCk&fmt=22)
Honestly, I kind of sucked that time, but the point remains.
That's one of the longest battles with a goon I've ever seen.
He missed a whole clips worth of md. I mean, all that extra nuclear waste released into the environment...
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This is getting kind of off-topic, but here ya go:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7PVM0w8mzCk&fmt=22 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7PVM0w8mzCk&fmt=22)
Honestly, I kind of sucked that time, but the point remains.
That's one of the longest battles with a goon I've ever seen.
He missed a whole clips worth of md. I mean, all that extra nuclear waste released into the environment...
Penguins are crying.
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This is getting kind of off-topic, but here ya go:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7PVM0w8mzCk&fmt=22 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7PVM0w8mzCk&fmt=22)
Honestly, I kind of sucked that time, but the point remains.
That's one of the longest battles with a goon I've ever seen.
He missed a whole clips worth of md. I mean, all that extra nuclear waste released into the environment...
Penguins are crying.
Yeah, I'm evil like that.
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This is getting kind of off-topic, but here ya go:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7PVM0w8mzCk&fmt=22 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7PVM0w8mzCk&fmt=22)
Honestly, I kind of sucked that time, but the point remains.
That's one of the longest battles with a goon I've ever seen.
He missed a whole clips worth of md. I mean, all that extra nuclear waste released into the environment...
Penguins are crying.
Yeah, I'm evil like that.
Don't be an asssshole.
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This is getting kind of off-topic, but here ya go:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7PVM0w8mzCk&fmt=22 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7PVM0w8mzCk&fmt=22)
Honestly, I kind of sucked that time, but the point remains.
That's one of the longest battles with a goon I've ever seen.
He missed a whole clips worth of md. I mean, all that extra nuclear waste released into the environment...
Penguins are crying.
Yeah, I'm evil like that.
Don't be an asssshole.
Stop using that wwword.