Tremulous Forum
General => General Discussion => Topic started by: zybork on January 03, 2011, 08:20:20 pm
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Hi people,
as far as I can see, there is still no guild out there, so here is a draft of such a guild's manifest:
The guild
guild – an association of persons of the same trade or pursuits, formed to protect the mutual interests and maintain standards.
I play Tremulous to relax, for the excitement… in other words: *to have fun.* My parent's generation played cards, snooker, darts – my generation now plays computer games in a similar fashion. Some games are now better, some are worse, Tremulous, being a ingenious blend of ego shooter and strategy game, is, without a doubt, one of the best out there.
Membership is informal and does not require payments or playing regularly or mandatory participation in any special forum or chat, the only requirement is that somebody officially declares to be willing to follow the rules of the guild and actually *does* follow them.
As members of the guild
• We are at any time aware of the fact that Tremulous is a *game,* and do not see it as a substitute for an empty life, a lack of self-confidence or anything in that matter.
• We know the manual.
• We understand that Tremulous is not a dull ego-shooter, and honor the strategic element of the game.
• We have have already played all of the different alien classes and used all the humans' weapons several times.
• We know all the standard maps and do not get lost the moment we step out of the base.
• (This implies that) we have some experience in the game, we are not newbies.
• We have a basic understanding of building, and we already have built any structure available on both teams, and also successfully moved the base several times, this means:
• We have a basic experience in building, we may not be the best of the best of builders, but are able to create a base that will do its job.
• We help repairing the base.
• We warn before moving the team's main structure (this is, the reactor or the overmind).
• We do NOT teamkill (except for self-defense or to defend our team or base against players gone mad).
• We do NOT leave the base undefended when there is a possibility that it is to be attacked.
• We are careful not to hurt our own base, no base-luci, base-nade or base-slash, if we want a building out of the way, we'd rather ask a builder to do that.
• We understand the neccessity of defense, but yet are not afraid to leave the base: we do not camp.
• We do not give the opponent frags needlessly, this is: we do not feed.
• We cooperate with other players of the team.
• We are not perfect players, and do neither expect ourselves nor anybody else to be.
“Membership” would be informal, members of the guild would have to submit their (most commonly used) ingame name, their age/year of birth and their geographical location, and – if they are willing to share that information – their gender and profession, so in my case, this would be:
…a real darling, '79, Vienna, male, Vienna/Austria, printer
Membership would be gained by just sending a mail to the guild-maintainer, it would have to be approved by at least two other members of the guild (we could start with a few people known to keep to all the rules mentioned above), and “membership” would just mean to be on a publicly visible list, no "membership-card", no tag.
THIS IS INTENDED TO BE A GUILD, NOT A CLAN, as mentioned in the draft, the only requirement is to stick to the rules.
Mind that this is a draft, I just wanted to coin a set of rules that guarantees somebody being a casual, non-moronic player.
If you got any suggestion, please make it, I just think we could really use a guild in here, not just clans.
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I like this. Especially this:
no tag.
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You should call it the "BTB"
Better Tremulous Bureau
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Aren't there some guilds? ???
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Aren't there some guilds? ???
Mercenaries Guild? xD
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There is also dTrem (http://dtrem.com/)
What is dTrem?
dTrem is a community of Tremulous players. It is not a clan and does not have a clan tag.
It's pretty much exactly as you describe.
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Hm, hm, hm, those guilds are guilds alright, but they are focussed on projects, community, and not on the “standards”-part of the definition of a guild:
guild – an association of persons of the same trade or pursuits, formed to protect the mutual interests and maintain standards.
Both dtrem and MG are rather “associations”, where this one is intended to be more like a guild in the narrower sense of the word, more comparable to a craftmen's guild than to a community, for instance, all carpenters in the carpenters' guild are required to, I don't know, not sell plastic for wood and such, this is, to keep to the basic standards, but in all other concerns, are free to do or not do whatever they want.
Also, there is one thing I want prevented, this is, a lot of “on this website an amazing project is to be born soon” which actually never see the light of day; I'd rather have one thing, but this thing done, and neither in MG nor in dTrem I have seen any manifesto like the one I presented here.
See this guild rather not as a community but more than a commitment to fair and non-egotistic gameplay, maybe we could change the wording from “I am a member of the guild” to “I signed the Tremulous Player Manifest”, maybe this would make more sense, I think.
… Yeah, I think we could do that.
PS: Just changed the title of the thread accordingly.
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Hm, hm, hm, those guilds are guilds alright, but they are focussed on projects, community, and not on the “standards”-part of the definition of a guild
Members should be:
- Mature
- Active
- Friends with Members
- Reasonably Skilled
- Play with Members Regularly
- Capable of Working in a Team
...
That means if you frequently get banned on servers, you're out.
If you frequently aggravate people, you're out.
If you don't listen and work with clan members, you're out.
But most importantly, if we don't know you, you're out.
Don't call us, we'll call you.
I think that's a decent manifesto. I think it's unfair to say that neither MG nor dTrem have quality standards for their members.
This comes from Increment's old website (dTrem's official clan) and mostly applies to dTrem as well. Should probably put that on the new website now. Thanks :D
dTrem and MG have contributed to many projects which have seen "the light of day". [W]onderland and dHumans (hvh gpp) are the most prominent dTrem/Increment examples (also Wrath Newbie is strongly related, though not created by us).
I think you were a little unfair in your judgement of guilds that you only learned of today. :P
I will agree, however, that at least dTrem is quite project-oriented simply because that's how we like to spend our time. I get the impression MG is too but I can't speak for them.
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There's DRU, albeit it has been a bit dead.
There's also a lot of clans that behave very much so like guilds.
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SoH turned into a guild after a while but I think they've died out. Isn't FA also a guild or are they still a clan?
And as for a name, why not just "The Guild"?
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NO, quash this before it starts. I have seen where guilds lead, even if not firsthand, and it's not very good. You are creating an establishment which by its existence is inhibiting free market capitalism and discourages, often aggressively the type of newcomer entrepreneurship that is needed for success by setting caps and rates on all items you can. This makes an unfair environment for anyone not associated with the guild who wishes to partake in activities or pursuits mandated by the guild. Tremulous will flounder in a setup like this and you are seriously damaging the natural flow of wealth within this game. Boycott!
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Actually, “The Guild” is a good name, altough I more and more tend to skip that guild-part and just go for the idea of a manifest that you can sign.
Teapot:
• Mature
• Active
• Friends with Members
• Reasonably Skilled
• Play with Members Regularly
• Capable of Working in a Team
My idea is a (public) commitment to rules that, well how shall I put it, well, that show that you're not a jerk, but some of the points here are not necessary for that. It is not necessary to be active (because somebody who doesn't play for a year and then comes back for a year may still not be a jerk), it is not necessary. Also, what in all world is “reasonably skilled”? I've seen people who actually were not that good but who cooperated with others excellently, (maybe they took a year off, to come back to the earlier joke), and about playing with members regularly, well – why? There are times I play an hour each day, and there are months I don't play at all, depending on workload, private life, mood, and so on, for it is a game, played for fun, not out of a sense of duty…
Another thing that interests me, what do you guys think of the “rules” I wrote into that manifest? Are they too specific? Are they too un-specific? Is there a rule that can be omitted without loss? Is there something missing?
If there would be some kind of actual guild behind it, it would be the people simply keeping an eye on that the people who want to sign that manifest really actually care to keep themselves to it, but this would be all. For other activities you may rather want to get engaged in dTrem or MG, while signing the manifest shows, hey, I play fair, I play reasonable.
mooseberry: Your understanding of “free market” means, that for instance a weapon manufacturer who produces guns that don't shoot calling those factories who actually care that their stuff works “establishment”, especially when they dare to verifiy their commitment to functional products…
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NO, quash this before it starts. I have seen where guilds lead, even if not firsthand, and it's not very good. You are creating an establishment which by its existence is inhibiting free market capitalism and discourages, often aggressively the type of newcomer entrepreneurship that is needed for success by setting caps and rates on all items you can. This makes an unfair environment for anyone not associated with the guild who wishes to partake in activities or pursuits mandated by the guild. Tremulous will flounder in a setup like this and you are seriously damaging the natural flow of wealth within this game. Boycott!
Free market capitalism? Look at America's economic state. Getting too political. Anyway, The Guild is too generic, how about Tyrants of Tremulous? (ToT)
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Oh, I want it to be generic, because the things mentioned in it should actually be self-evident ;)
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So zybork, people want to join your guild to show they're not jerks and they're not jerks because they're in your guild?
(http://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/honor_societies.png)
Credit: xkcd (http://xkcd.com/703/)
Seriously though, if you're not a jerk, that should speak for itself.
Sidenote:
That list was Increment's (note: the clan's) entry requirements. You can't enter if you're inactive at the time you're being considered. Also, active doesn't necessarily mean you play the game regularly. Just that you communicate with members (as we do often on irc).
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Teapot, maybe I didn't explain it sufficiently, but you obviously did not understand what I want with this manifest, I want people to enable them to show their serious commitment to fair and friendly gameplay in the easiest way possible.
Got it now?
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Okay, and how do they show that without a tag?
/me still thinks it was a fun xkcd reference
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Why tags? Being in a public list should be enough.
Btw, I would really appreciate if you looked over the rules/statements I made. Did I mention something unimportant? Did I leave something important out?
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The list looks good.
I do think a descriptive optional tag might be helpful for spreading the guild's objective and even reminding the members themselves when they're online. Something like "Fair|PlayerName" (poor example but I'm sure you understand).
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Their honor of course!
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I got an idea, I'd use the “ellipse” a.k.a. “...”, so I am not “a real darling” but “… a real darling”, the manifest would be “… the manifest” and any possible guild would then be “… the guild”. If the list looks fine, I'll still spend some more thought on it, and then I guess I'll go and set up a pre-version of it.
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A potential step two would be to create a forum or IRC channel where all the members could come together and socialize/get to know each other. A guild without solidarity will lead to squabbles and drama, neither of which will fulfill the aims of the guild.
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I am more and more convinced that the guilds who are already in place suffice for the needs of socialization, I more and more tend to put up a public manifest which people may sign to address their commitment to the respective standards.
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so I am not “a real darling” but “… a real darling”
Hah, so you're the twat who rages and gets abusive every time you play against meisseli? Yeah, you seem the perfect guy to head a bunch of certified non-jerks... ::)
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There are several reasons why commitment is a good idea. Ever seen me on Wrath-Newbie (when I still played 1.1)? Do you now understand now? And yes, I am convinced he has no life. Just check / compare online times, this at a time when I have not much to do workwise and can realy not say I am online not often myself. But such a discussion is off topic and would belong in another thread.
Besides that, “every time” is nonsense, I am known to be a friendly guy who sees the common good more important, and Meiss. is just killwhoring a bit too much for my taste, and yeah, I really don't like people abandoning teamplay and making matches a one-man show.
Btw, I guess a “paragraph against killwhoring” is included in the manifest ;)
I think I can bring up a pre-version of the manifest pretty soon.
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And yes, I am convinced he has no life. Just check / compare online times.
Oh, so you're stalking him now? and what's this whole ZOMG NOLIFE thing about anyway? Isn't it possible that some players are just better than you?
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Well, I just took a quick look at the stats, and: There are also players worse than me, I don't killwhore in that case either. There are people running around I just don't slash or shoot when encountering them, or, if I happen to realize I have slashed guy X for the n. time in a row, I don't hold back with advice, how they can do it better. And someties – what do you know – people even listen.
In my honest opinion, a game is for all who play it, ever played fooseball against a leet player? You don't, because it's no fun, and when you happen to be the guy who can bomb them all away, you usually switch to a position where you are not that good, or even mix teams, just to keep balance and make the game more interesting.
Gaming is like sex in that matter: It's only good if everybody enjoys it.
…and all this brought up an important point I possibly missed in “…the manifest”, altough I hope to keep the number of paragraphs down, making it so simple and clear as ever possible.
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Slight nitpick:
I got an idea, I'd use the “ellipse” a.k.a. “...”
An ellipse (http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/ellipse) is an oval. You probably want ellipsis (http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/ellipsis). Really, though, "The Ellipse" would be a nice name for a guild of well-rounded players (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/IncrediblyLamePun).
Really though, "The Ellipse" or "The Ellpisis" would be a great name for this guild.
Don't kill me.
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Free market capitalism? Look at America's economic state. Getting too political. Anyway, The Guild is too generic, how about Tyrants of Tremulous? (ToT)
What's this got to do with America?
NO, quash this before it starts. I have seen where guilds lead, even if not firsthand, and it's not very good. You are creating an establishment which by its existence is inhibiting free market capitalism and discourages, often aggressively the type of newcomer entrepreneurship that is needed for success by setting caps and rates on all items you can. This makes an unfair environment for anyone not associated with the guild who wishes to partake in activities or pursuits mandated by the guild. Tremulous will flounder in a setup like this and you are seriously damaging the natural flow of wealth within this game. Boycott!
SET CAPS?!?!? I CAN SET CAPS!!1!1!1
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Gaming is like sex in that matter: It's only good if everybody enjoys it.
What if I enjoy BDSM and dominating, eh?
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Free market capitalism? Look at America's economic state. Getting too political. Anyway, The Guild is too generic, how about Tyrants of Tremulous? (ToT)
What's this got to do with America?
He is saying free market capitalism is a good thing to have. What does America have? A free market capitalism.
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Free market capitalism? Look at America's economic state. Getting too political. Anyway, The Guild is too generic, how about Tyrants of Tremulous? (ToT)
What's this got to do with America?
He is saying free market capitalism is a good thing to have. What does America have? A free market capitalism.
So far. But government interference with the economy is becoming a mess.
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Free market capitalism? Look at America's economic state. Getting too political. Anyway, The Guild is too generic, how about Tyrants of Tremulous? (ToT)
What's this got to do with America?
He is saying free market capitalism is a good thing to have. What does America have? A free market capitalism.
So far. But government interference with the economy is becoming a mess.
Unrestricted market capitalism is a bad thing. "Free" market capitalism isn't a horrible thing (Its the worst form of economy, except for all the others). It was a lack of government "interference", particularly the abolishment of the uptick rule and restrictions on the bank's creation of money, which it used to loan out to anyone who couldn't afford it, that put the economy in the current mess. Why I'm engaging in such an off-topic discussion is beyond me though.
Seriously though, if you're not a jerk, that should speak for itself.
True. However I wouldn't mind a list of people who define themselves as "not jerks". I'd certainly join this. Of course, I wouldn't wear a tag for this kind of thing though.
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Gaming is like sex in that matter: It's only good if everybody enjoys it.
What if I enjoy BDSM and dominating, eh?
Then I'd rather not have sex with you, and you'd had to play with somebody else.
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Gaming is like sex in that matter: It's only good if everybody enjoys it.
What if I enjoy BDSM and dominating, eh?
Then I'd rather not have sex with you, and you'd had to play with somebody else.
Ugh.
But what if I find some perverts like me and we happily rape the whole server? ::)
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Free market capitalism? Look at America's economic state. Getting too political. Anyway, The Guild is too generic, how about Tyrants of Tremulous? (ToT)
What's this got to do with America?
He is saying free market capitalism is a good thing to have. What does America have? A free market capitalism.
Don't most countries?
(Not completely free of course)
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Okay, another draft, I am working on a preamble and a postamble, here is the manifest itself in its current state:
The Tremulous Player Manifest
We, who have signed The Tremulous Player Manifest, declare that
We know the game.
• We know the manual.
• We have already played all of the different alien classes and used all human weapons and equipment.
• We know all the standard maps and do not get lost the instant we leave the base.
We know about building.
• We have an at least basic understanding of building, and have already built all buildings of both teams and built/moved base.
• We are in communication with our team about any none-obvious building-intentions to allow mutual support, for instance,
• we warn before moving the team's main structure (this is: the overmind or the reactor).
• We care that building is done by the team at all.
• When not buiding, we destroy buildings only as a last resort.
We know how to behave.
• We try not to insult people, even if they deserve it.
• We prefer English (being the lingua franca of the net) to not exclude anybody who does not speak our language.
• We do not teamkill, except a player explicitely requests it for a good reason or to protect our base or our team against players gone mad.
• We are careful not to hurt our own base, especially with slashes, barbs, lucifer cannons, flame throwers or grenades.
We are teamplayers.
• We tend to cooperate with other players, give cover, support, lead, group with others, and so on.
• We do not abandon the base when there is a possibility that it might get destroyed.
• We understand the necessity of defense, yet we are not afraid to leave the base: we do not camp.
• We understand the necessity of attacking, yet we do not give the opponent teams frags needlessly: we do not feed.
• When spectating, we are spectating, and not spying: we do no ghosting.
Tremulous is a game.
• Tremulous is a game, we want to have fun and we want all the others to have fun as well, explicitely /including/ the members of the opponent team.
• Tremulous is a game, it is not a substitute for an empty life, a lack of self-confidence, not a playground for ambition, or anything else in that matter.
• Tremulous is a game, and altough there is nothing wrong with winning, there is nothing wrong with not winning either.
• We are not perfect players, and do not expect anybody else to be.
• We tolerate newbies.
The preamble will contain information about the reason why this manifest exists (and why somebody should sign it), the postamble will contain additional information about the optional tag and why this manifest is just a manifest, and no religious text ;)
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The Tremulous Player Manifest
We, who have signed The Tremulous Player Manifest, declare that
We know the game.
• We know the manual.
• We have already played all of the different alien classes and used all human weapons and equipment.
• We know all the standard maps and do not get lost the instant we leave the base.
We know about building.
• We have an at least basic understanding of building, and have already built all buildings of both teams and built/moved base.
• We are in communication with our team about any none-obvious building-intentions to allow mutual support, for instance,
• we warn before moving the team's main structure (this is: the overmind or the reactor).
• We care that building is done by the team at all.
• When not buiding, we destroy buildings only as a last resort.
We know how to behave.
• We try not to insult people, even if they deserve it.
• We prefer English (being the lingua franca of the net) to not exclude anybody who does not speak our language.
• We do not teamkill, except a player explicitely requests it for a good reason or to protect our base or our team against players gone mad.
• We are careful not to hurt our own base, especially with slashes, barbs, lucifer cannons, flame throwers or grenades.
We are teamplayers.
• We tend to cooperate with other players, give cover, support, lead, group with others, and so on.
• We do not abandon the base when there is a possibility that it might get destroyed.
• We understand the necessity of defense, yet we are not afraid to leave the base: we do not camp.
• We understand the necessity of attacking, yet we do not give the opponent teams frags needlessly: we do not feed.
• When spectating, we are spectating, and not spying: we do no ghosting.
Tremulous is a game.
• Tremulous is a game, we want to have fun and we want all the others to have fun as well, explicitely /including/ the members of the opponent team.
• Tremulous is a game, it is not a substitute for an empty life, a lack of self-confidence, not a playground for ambition, or anything else in that matter.
• Tremulous is a game, and altough there is nothing wrong with winning, there is nothing wrong with not winning either.
• We are not perfect players, and do not expect anybody else to be.
• We tolerate newbies.
We are Anonymous.
• We are Legion.
• We do not Forgive.
• We do not Forget.
• We are always close to you.
• We are one.
• Expect us.
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Instead of useful comments, you could give more nonsentual ones like: “You forgot something like 'do not block'”
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Instead of useful comments, you could give more nonsentual ones like: “You forgot something like 'do not block'”
M'kay.
[useless]
You forgot something like 'do not block'. No, you actually did!
Also, you could add the 'not jetcamping' and 'not teamkilling jetcampers either' bits.
[/useless]
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'not teamkilling jetcampers either'
Why's that bad…? ;)
You're right, I forgot the jetcampers.
I wonder how the respective phrase could be coined, because there jetcamping can be useful under certain circumstances, on the other hand, there are too many people who do nothing but jetcamp.
In some respect, jetcamping is like hiding while the game still goes on, it effectively reduces the number of players in a team because some people do actually nothing.
…
Thx for the input, I'll think about it.
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Okay, I finally got a useful preamble, postamble, and the final draft for the manifest.
I eventually did not include jetcampers (at least not explicitely), because sometimes, jetcamping a while somewhere can be quite effective, for instance, it can keep advanced dragoons occupied with trying to take down the jetcamper, instead of killing of the human base, and it also can be quite effective in giving cover; however, I extended the paragraph about being careful not to hurt the own base to being careful not to hurt teammates and the own base.
There also is a FAQ, but now, here all the parts are:
Everybody likes to play, be it cards, darts, mahjongg, snooker, bowling, or computer games. Amongst the latter, Tremulous is an outstanding one, it is an ingenious blend of a first-person-shooter and a strategy game, thus adressing both reactions, wit and strategic thinking, and we play it for the very same reasons others play cards, darts,… – for the fun of it.
But when you play “analog” games like cards or snooker, you have personal contact to the other players, quickly allowing you to judge what to think of them, an advantage you do not have in the realm of the virtual world of the internet, where all you see might be just a cryptic nickname. In light of the fact that a game can only be fun where people play *together,* this is, in a climate of fairness, mutual respect and friendship, we hereby present the Tremulous Player Manifest, signed by fairly experiences players who officially commit themselves to these values, in order to ensure enjoyable games for everybody:
The Tremulous Player Manifest
We, who have signed The Tremulous Player Manifest, declare that
We know the game.
• We know the manual.
• We have already played all of the different alien classes and used all
human weapons and equipment.
• We know all the standard maps and do not get lost the instant we leave
the base.
We know about building.
• We have an at least basic understanding of building, and have already
built all buildings of both teams and built/moved base.
• We are in communication with our team about any none-obvious building
intentions to allow mutual support, for instance,
• we warn before moving the team's main structure (this is: the overmind
or the reactor).
• We care that building is done by the team at all.
• When not buiding, we destroy buildings of our own team only as a last
resort.
We know how to behave.
• We try not to insult people, even if they deserve it.
• We prefer English (being the lingua franca of the net) to not exclude
anybody who does not speak our language.
• When spectating, we are spectating, and not spying: we do no ghosting.
• We do not teamkill except a player explicitely requests it for a good
reason or to protect our base or our team against players gone mad.
• We are careful not to hurt our teammates and our own base, especially
with slashes, barbs, lucifer cannons, flame throwers or grenades.
We are teamplayers.
• We cooperate with other players, give cover, support, lead, group with
others, and so on.
• We do not abandon the base when there is a possibility that it might get
destroyed.
• We understand the necessity of defense, yet we are not afraid to leave
the base: we do not camp.
• We understand the necessity of attacking, yet we do not give the opponent
teams frags needlessly: we do not feed.
• We care not to block our teammates paths.
Tremulous is a game.
• Tremulous is a game, we want to have fun and we want all the others to have
fun as well, explicitely /including/ the members of the opponent team.
• Tremulous is a game, it is not a substitute for an empty life, a lack of
self-confidence, not a playground for ambition, or anything else in that matter.
• Tremulous is a game, and altough there is nothing wrong with winning, there
is nothing wrong with not winning either.
• We are not perfect players, and do not expect anybody else to be.
• We tolerate newbies.
To sign the manifest, enter your E-Mail-address (it is going not to be displayed), your ingame-name, your year of birth, and the country you reside in; you may also enter your real name, your gender, your profession and your website, altough they are not required.
There is no tag for people to show they have signed the manifest, at least not a mandatory one, however, if you want, you may use an ellipsis, “…” anywhere in your name, no special color-scheme required. The ellipsis has been chosen for it is characteristical yet inconspicuous and blends in well with Tremulous' ingame messages.
What does NOT prohibit you from signing this manifest?
• Not playing regularly. It's a game, not a purpose in life. Haven't played for a year, but still like the game? Welcome back!
• Not being in a clan. Or are you in a bowling-association just because you go kick over some pins from time to time?
• Not actively participating in projects, forums, et cetera. Doing such things is not a bad thing, but is is not required.
Who should sign this manifest?
• Everybody who has a fair amount of experience in the game, recognizes the importance of fairness and likes to play with others.
Who should NOT sign this manifest?
• People who don't understand what a “game” is.
• People who never play on official or public servers. In a closed environment, everybody knows everybody, so this defeats the purpose of this manifest.
• Newbies. Still, this manifest is an excellent guideline for them, and the list of signers is a list of people you can rely on in game.
• People who from time to time get kicked or banned from servers for misbehaviour.
• Killwhores, lone heroes, and other people who would be better off in one of the usual kill'em-all shooters.
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inb4 that goes public. 8)
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Besides that, “every time” is nonsense, I am known to be a friendly guy who sees the common good more important, and Meiss. is just killwhoring a bit too much for my taste, and yeah, I really don't like people abandoning teamplay and making matches a one-man show.
I would really love to hear how I'm less of a teamplayer than a real darling for example. Other than getting more kills (which does not equal killwhoring) :)
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Gaming is like sex in that matter: It's only good if everybody enjoys it.
What if I enjoy BDSM and dominating, eh?
Then it's only good if zybork enjoys being submissive.
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I would really love to hear how I'm less of a teamplayer than a real darling for example. Other than getting more kills (which does not equal killwhoring) :)
Because:
• Tremulous is a game, we want to have fun and we want all the others to have fun as well, explicitely including the members of the opponent team.
I know it is a fun thing if you can rush up a whole squad of opponent players, [sometimes, especially after some Internet Explorer-debugging, I had those sprees myself and nobody could resist me… ;)] but in the end, what for? I've seen *very* skilled players, who keep running around with blasters, when they realize there is nobody here who is up to them, or they start building, or limit themselves in other ways, and even I myself, altough I am an average player, had duels with people I at some time simply did no longer shoot at, but gave advice to (“aim for the HEAD!” “aim for the HEAD, you make more damage that way!” “aim for the head” “aim for the head” “aim for the HEAD, dammit!”), and the next time, he will play, he (probably?) will aim for the heads of human players, see that he gets more kills that ways, and enjoy the game more, maybe again winning somebody for Tremulous.
… which is one of the reasons I was thinking about a guild or a manifest or whatever, 'cause Trem. is a better game than all those “high-tech-super-graphics-I-need-my-own-power-station-for-my-graphics-card”-games, because the idea behind it is far more original than that of egoshooter no. 3768, and if it helps to make things better, go for it.
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I would really love to hear how I'm less of a teamplayer than a real darling for example. Other than getting more kills (which does not equal killwhoring) :)
Because:
• Tremulous is a game, we want to have fun and we want all the others to have fun as well, explicitely including the members of the opponent team.
I know it is a fun thing if you can rush up a whole squad of opponent players, [sometimes, especially after some Internet Explorer-debugging, I had those sprees myself and nobody could resist me… ;)] but in the end, what for? I've seen *very* skilled players, who keep running around with blasters, when they realize there is nobody here who is up to them, or they start building, or limit themselves in other ways, and even I myself, altough I am an average player, had duels with people I at some time simply did no longer shoot at, but gave advice to (“aim for the HEAD!” “aim for the HEAD, you make more damage that way!” “aim for the head” “aim for the head” “aim for the HEAD, dammit!”), and the next time, he will play, he (probably?) will aim for the heads of human players, see that he gets more kills that ways, and enjoy the game more, maybe again winning somebody for Tremulous.
… which is one of the reasons I was thinking about a guild or a manifest or whatever, 'cause Trem. is a better game than all those “high-tech-super-graphics-I-need-my-own-power-station-for-my-graphics-card”-games, because the idea behind it is far more original than that of egoshooter no. 3768, and if it helps to make things better, go for it.
Yes, nothing you said has anything to do with teamplaying
Anyways since you were so keen on looking tremstats why not look for my built (and destroyed) structures statistics!
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Whether or not Meisseli is a valuable team player or a blatant killwhore isn't really relevant.
You demonstrated quite clearly that you're just jealous when you said this: "And yes, I am convinced he has no life."
And honestly it does sound a bit like you're internet-stalking Meisseli.
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internet-stalking Meisseli.
(http://dobrochan.ru/src/jpg/0907/haha_oh_wow.jpg)
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Get 100 people on 1.2 first.
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Okay, people, sorry for the delay, damn real life keeps getting in the way 8)
Leaving aside the killwhore-topic (which is very interesting indeed, but a discussion imho not belonging in this thread), I proudly present the construction site of the manifest, contentswise the text can be viewed at
http://www.sacharja.at/tremulous/fulltext.php
the current signing-form (not being processed yet!) at
http://www.sacharja.at/tremulous/sign.php
it features color-codes in ingame-names, and … well, I just saw that “our friend the intanet-exploder” obviously messes up male-and female-signs… Aha. Interesting. Well, however, the main changes about the draft of the manifest itself concern a little re-structuring, basically boiling it down to the things people always tell others anyway, like “warn before move reactor” and such, making the topic titles more significant.
A new p•int is: “We use bindings or at least know what they are”, for in my opinion this really is something that separates noobs from non-noobs.
I tried to leave out as much as possible, and I admit, I had no idea how to incorporate that “don't jetcamp”-thing. Jetcamping can be a good thing to do under certain circumstances, I am thinking of changing “We understand the necessity of defense, yet we are not afraid to leave the base: we do not camp.” to something like, “we are not afraid to leave secure places” or something.
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A new p•int is: “We use bindings or at least know what they are”, for in my opinion this really is something that separates noobs from non-noobs.
They're for spamming, everyone knows that, even the noobs.
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{MG} wut?
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They're for spamming, everyone knows that, even the noobs.
Especially the noobs.
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Okay, it's finally online (http://sacharja.at/tremulous) :) , I hope people can identify with it, one last point has been added: To make clear that spamming is also a way of blocking people.
I hope I got everything important covered without going too much into detail.
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A few typos/misspellings. Overall, looks good.
adressing -> addressing
explicitely -> explicitly
experiences players -> experienced players
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Ah, thanks. Fixed the typos, added the thing with the optional tag (“…”) to the FAQ, removed the draft-tag from the full text of the manifest, for I think this is it, and we can leave it that way.
Btw, the source is available at http://www.sacharja.at/?tremmanifest&en
And: I knew you'd be among the first to sign this :)