Tremulous Forum
General => Feedback => Topic started by: baybal on February 02, 2011, 11:19:05 am
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1 I want gas to empty or lower humans stamina
2 I want to calculate pounce damage on contact basis rather than "shooting" like calculation. Currently if you pounce somebody and then turn around in midair, you can kill a human BEHIND you
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1 I want gas to empty or lower humans stamina
Gas is allready really stong. You can gas an entire human team with one button leaving a rant a good meal. It allready slows the target.
2 I want to calculate pounce damage on contact basis rather than "shooting" like calculation. Currently if you pounce somebody and then turn around in midair, you can kill a human BEHIND you
?
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3 - I want you to implement that yourself. I know you are not going to. But I want!
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2 I want to calculate pounce damage on contact basis rather than "shooting" like calculation. Currently if you pounce somebody and then turn around in midair, you can kill a human BEHIND you
yea i understand that, even when it never happens like that...
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2 I want to calculate pounce damage on contact basis rather than "shooting" like calculation. Currently if you pounce somebody and then turn around in midair, you can kill a human BEHIND you
yea i understand that, even when it never happens like that...
Really? I've had this happen to me several times. I always call HAX when it happens too. I'm with baybal on this one.
Goon pounce should be tweaked or completely overhauled. As is, it seems insanely overpowered in the hands of a really skilled player (especially for a supposed 'secondary' attack; even though pounce is the primary attack for a lot of 1.2 players).
To compensate, I think it'd make sense to have pounce do slightly less damage in these situations:
1. When pouncing from below your target.
2. If the target is moving in the same direction as the pounce, and at roughly the same speed (if the human player uses dodge to try to escape, or if they're falling towards the ground and get pounced in mid-air).
3. While the target is not standing (crouching and jumping).
Lowering pounce damage done from below would help fix goons racking up kills along the ledge in human base in ATCS.
Yes, I said fix, as I consider it a nasty bug, not a desirable gameplay feature.
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Honestly I think you would do more damage to a jumping target. And I don't see why you'd do less damage to a crouching target, or from pouncing from below, actually. I'm torn on whether or not this should work with humans moving in the same direction as the pounce (the knockback makes me feel its not just the velocity of the goon that causes pounce damage).
It makes sense that damage should be partially dependent on goon-velocity, but that's not really the issue here. The issue is that pounce is overpowered. Especially when compared to chomp.
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IMO it's irrelevant whether an attack is called primary or secondary, and IMO it is good that secondary attacks are more powerful than primary ones, since different classes have different secondary attacks, thus adding some variety.
Things I don't like about pounce: having to aim at the target for any damage at all; the short range vs the goon bbox, which makes some pounces miss even if you were aiming at the target and physically hit him; pounce charge has no effect on damage dealt; velocity relative to target has no effect on damage dealt; difficult to hit with on slopes. Still, the chance of a major overhaul to pounce is tiny.
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Come to think of it, pounce should do MORE damage if the target jumps before the pounce impacts. This make me think of (American) Football games where a receiver jumps to try to catch the ball and is gloriously sacked by a defender. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jd6vC4zaFUk)
Pounces to a crouched target should have a reduced knock back effect, and do less damage, because the target is supposedly 'stabilized' on the ground (ie, not having to keep their balance).
As for pounce damage from above vs. from below, 'realistically' a pounce from above would cause head trauma (more damage), and from below it should only break your legs, not kill you (less damage).
Also, the knockback range and velocity should be lower than the pounce velocity and range, unless goons or humans are made of Flubber.
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IMO it's irrelevant whether an attack is called primary or secondary
It's not irrelevant because it relates directly to button bindings for control of that class, and ease of use by the player (MB1 is probably easier to use than MB2 or 3 for most right-handed players).
Also, pouncing through corners is just absurd, and that at least should be fixed.
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Come to think of it, pounce should do MORE damage if the target jumps before the pounce impacts. This make me think of (American) Football games where a receiver jumps to try to catch the ball and is gloriously sacked by a defender. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jd6vC4zaFUk)
Pounces to a crouched target should have a reduced knock back effect, and do less damage, because the target is supposedly 'stabilized' on the ground (ie, not having to keep their balance).
As for pounce damage from above vs. from below, 'realistically' a pounce from above would cause head trauma (more damage), and from below it should only break your legs, not kill you (less damage).
Also, the knockback range and velocity should be lower than the pounce velocity and range, unless goons or humans are made of Flubber.
Shooting an alien to the head should do more damage. Dropping down from 25m should kill an alien. A single rifle bullet to the head should kill a human.
Are you really getting anywhere with your attempts on "realism"?
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Are you really getting anywhere with your attempts on "realism"?
This is a feedback board.. shoo.
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Are you really getting anywhere with your attempts on "realism"?
This is a feedback board.. shoo.
Feedback: your suggestions suck, they're both badly implementable and they would make the game enormously complex, not to mention horrible.
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I wouldn't say it that totally horrible. Atleast, dragoon should damage human, even if it would look elsewhere. If dragoon comes, for example, by his right/left side, it should give some bruising (for armored human, something of 1-20.) Front is still the deadliest, thanks to (minimum size) horns.
But I do agree this would make it more complex, and developing it would take quite lot of time to make it "least working"-condition.
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If you really want to make it more realistic... why can you turn in the air at all? And why can anything turn on the spot so fast?
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The only thing that needs to be made more "realistic" is the rant charge since it's fucking stupid that they can kill you with the top of their head.
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I think jetpacks should be removed.
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- Make humans buy
donuts some real food at the armoury and starve over time - Make grangers auto-gurgle on impact and be all kind of squishy
- Make basigas induce some really nice psychedelic effects
- Add medkit addiction and make the withdrawal painful. Instead, humans can get more simple and use bandages with penicillin
- Expand the medistation into a hospital with moderately sexy nurses
- Water should have waves and fish. Lots of fish
- Humans should need a broom to scare dretches away
- Jetpacks can poison aliens with exhaust and do environmental damage to make your 'green' teammates rage
- Fuel stations everywhere, aliens can drink petrol and regurgitate benzene vapors while being moderately brain-damaged
- Massdriver should be driving mass, and not the shit out of dretches
- Mara whoring should only be accomplished by maras, who have reached puberty. Else, you're going to end in jail
- No more jetpacks underwater; using flamer underwater results in a petrol leak and people raging at BP again
- The painsaw should be scientifically described as a misused Hall effect thruster; also, it can be used to fly or kill yourself by smashing into a wall
- Maps need to include a weather forecast
- Tesla generators are instead Weird Intelligent Electric Zappers of Unknown Inventer
- Spectators don't fly
- Grenades are fragmentation ones, and not 'I`m a firestick' kind ones
- Aliens can leave banana peels all over the map, which humans should avoid
- A flamethrower is actually one, and not a burning gas dispenser; real-world flamethrowers shoot napalm
tl;dr I have too much free time
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- Expand the medistation into a hospital with moderately sexy nurses
"Quick! I need balls-to-mouth resuscitation!"
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"Quick! I need balls-to-mouth resuscitation!"
So when you're dying, you want to have someone stuff their balls into your mouth?
Each to his own I guess.
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"Quick! I need balls-to-mouth resuscitation!"
So when you're dying, you want to have someone stuff their balls into your mouth?
Each to his own I guess.
And then respawn.
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can we please quit the thread derailment?
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Feedback: your suggestions suck, they're both badly implementable and they would make the game enormously complex, not to mention horrible.
Feedback: I think you can go ahead and unstick your head from up your butt. lol don't try this at home.
The things I've suggested are not 'badly implementable' (there's already damage differences to different parts of the human bounding box and damage difference for crouch). The Goon pounce behavior is horribly buggy as-is, so again, shoo.
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Also, I never said I want to add realism to Tremulous. I used the word 'realistically' when proposing a hypothetical corrected behavior specific to one aspect of the game, so please stop brining up if things are realistic or not.
This topic is about reimplenting basi gas and fixing goon pounce.
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Where are the mods when you need them?
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Feedback: your suggestions suck, they're both badly implementable and they would make the game enormously complex, not to mention horrible.
Feedback: I think you can go ahead and unstick your head from up your butt.
The things I've suggested are not 'badly implementable' (there's already damage differences to different parts of the human bounding box and damage difference for crouch). The Goon pounce behavior is horribly buggy as-is, so again, shoo.
The things you've suggested are badly implementable. There are damage differences for attack types that do locational damage. Pounce is non-locational damage. If what you're attempting to say is to make pounce deal locational damage, your suggestion is indeed a horrible one.
You also haven't either been around or paid attention to what was happening with the 1.1 crouch and dragoon chomping. Normally a goon headchomp dealt 100 damage, but when you crouched you would only receive 80 damage. This was abused to the maximum and was a horrible gameplay feature. You're basically trying to revive it with the dragoon pounce. People will just crouch all the time with your bad suggestion.
I also really don't think many people want to have a piece of paper called "The Dragoon Pounce Damage Table" near their keyboard that they need to check every time when pouncing. "Oh crap, what damage does my pounce this time do? Is the human crouching, dodging, jumping, falling, moving to the opposite/same direction, moving diagonally 75°, moving with a speed of 0 - 200 gu/s, 200 - 486,4 gu/s or 486,4 - 857 gu/s?"
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The things you've suggested are badly implementable. There are damage differences for attack types that do locational damage. Pounce is non-locational damage. If what you're attempting to say is to make pounce deal locational damage, your suggestion is indeed a horrible one.
I think he means locational damage as in what direction they are attacking from, like goon pounces from above and receives a damage bonus not equal to a HS.
You also haven't either been around or paid attention to what was happening with the 1.1 crouch and dragoon chomping. Normally a goon headchomp dealt 100 damage, but when you crouched you would only receive 80 damage. This was abused to the maximum and was a horrible gameplay feature. You're basically trying to revive it with the dragoon pounce. People will just crouch all the time with your bad suggestion.
yes and back then chop was actually better then pounce, you are also forgetting that it wasn't game breaking and gave naked humans a chance, after all back then dretches could insta kills to nakeds.
I also really don't think many people want to have a piece of paper called "The Dragoon Pounce Damage Table" near their keyboard that they need to check every time when pouncing. "Oh crap, what damage does my pounce this time do? Is the human crouching, dodging, jumping, falling, moving to the opposite/same direction, moving diagonally 75°, moving with a speed of 0 - 200 gu/s, 200 - 486,4 gu/s or 486,4 - 857 gu/s?"
I'm sorry. i don't think any trem player is consistently calculating how much damage their pounce is doing, only "the rear does more damage" is the best any player hassles themselves with.
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I think he means locational damage as in what direction they are attacking from, like goon pounces from above and receives a damage bonus not equal to a HS.
Like... as in make pounce do locational damage?
yes and back then chop was actually better then pounce, you are also forgetting that it wasn't game breaking and gave naked humans a chance, after all back then dretches could insta kills to nakeds.
What do dretches have to do with anything? They couldn't insta-kill anything.
I'm sorry. i don't think any trem player is consistently calculating how much damage their pounce is doing, only "the rear does more damage" is the best any player hassles themselves with.
Oh dear. Literacy anyone?
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You also haven't either been around or paid attention to what was happening with the 1.1 crouch and dragoon chomping. Normally a goon headchomp dealt 100 damage, but when you crouched you would only receive 80 damage. This was abused to the maximum and was a horrible gameplay feature. You're basically trying to revive it with the dragoon pounce. People will just crouch all the time with your bad suggestion.
I also really don't think many people want to have a piece of paper called "The Dragoon Pounce Damage Table" near their keyboard that they need to check every time when pouncing. "Oh crap, what damage does my pounce this time do? Is the human crouching, dodging, jumping, falling, moving to the opposite/same direction, moving diagonally 75°, moving with a speed of 0 - 200 gu/s, 200 - 486,4 gu/s or 486,4 - 857 gu/s?"
Crouch headshot doing less damage != locational damage. Do you really think it's impossible to have locational damage with crouch having same values?
Are you counting the seconds a player has been poisoned for & has had his/her medkit active for? How about estimating how much damage they took from that fall? Perhaps testing in common locations where players can fall and writing down the damage taken? Are you counting & calculating damage from your dretch bites against a bsuit? Are you <insert another ridiculous thing here>?
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Crouch headshot doing less damage != locational damage. Do you really think it's impossible to have locational damage without crouch having different values?
Are you counting the seconds a player has been poisoned for & has had his/her medkit active for? How about estimating how much damage they took from that fall? Perhaps testing in common locations where players can fall and writing down the damage taken? Are you counting & calculating damage from your dretch bites against a bsuit? Are you <insert another ridiculous thing here>?
If you had read his whole post you would've noticed he also wants pounce to do less damage to legs, more damage to head, etc. = locational damage. The crouch and chomping issue was fixed but he wants players who crouch take less damage from pounces.
I am well aware of the fact that my pounce does 100 damage, 34 to larm+helm and 22 to bsuit, and I don't have to calculate anything else.
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This topic is really funny, cause we all know that the suggestions probably won't happen, and that arguing is just going to get no where. The locational damage thing could be interesting, but it isn't completely broken yet, so I suggest we don't poke it to see how far gameplay will bend.
-K
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This topic is really funny, cause we all know that the suggestions probably won't happen
Yes but not posting about the uselessness of chomp makes your statement a self-fulfilling prophecy. I hope its untrue.
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To be honest, I miss when goon pounce had virtually no range (I forget what phase, maybe 3?) I'd like to see this again, however only if slash range was increased by a small amount to compensate. As it stands, pouncing is just too easy to whore, it's like the rant slash of 1.1. Or maybe Basilisks are, or...
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If you really want to make it more realistic... why can you turn in the air at all? And why can anything turn on the spot so fast?
I think it's not simply non realistic, it's not rational how goon can deliver pounce to a person BEHIND him. It should be treated as simply a bug. Eyah, and I think some players got quite skillfull at this kind of pouncing.
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It actually makes perfect sense, there is no issue with the goon pounce at its not hitting you from behind *smirk*, think of it as the goon is catching you in the side with those vicious looking tusks on its head as it bounds past you. Also to anyone who thinks the goon is overpowered in any way... No, no it's not, it costs 3/(4 for advanced) credits! It is the second most powerful class after the tyrant, it is supposed to be badass!
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it is supposed to be badass without having to spam micro pounces, that's the issue.
pounce should be a opening attack and a form of moment, not its primary attack.
goon was MUCH more balanced in 1.1 and right now it is in a spot where the pounce is overpowered but nerfing it will make it underpowered so tweaking it is a challenge.
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Nah, if a goon manages to put you in a corner, you deserve to be "micro-pounced" the shit out of. For the cost of 3/4 credits, goons should be able to tackle fully equipped humans, there is no issue.
And no pounce should not be an opening attack, people can use it however the fuck they want.
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^ Stupid.
Essentially what you're saying is don't be in any area where a goon could ever get you into a corner, as well as don't play humans on any map where it's generally impossible to get that kind of distance from corners. You're saying it's ok for a goon to actually be able to kill a fully equipped human with a single pounce by virtue of putting them in a corner, even when that "advantage" is given on a basis determined by the map. And you tie this all together using the fund value of the class as supporting logic, which is awful in this case.
To reiterate other points I've made, the features of this version cause it to be a massive amount more map based than 1.1, despite the fact that it makes more sense for the game to only be map based through its fundamentals (base building, the general concepts of movement, etc.), not smaller features brought on by developmental progress.
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If a goon manages to put you in a corner, you deserve to be chomped the shit out of. Not pounced.
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Dracone, i never implied that at all, i am sorry you feel that way. Humans are more than capable of dodging and avoiding pounces through various evasive maneuvers.
Just with goon being the most expensive class for all s1/2 it should be able to kill things nicely.
Chomping is just as handy in certain situations as pouncing is in others.
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Dracone, i never implied that at all, i am sorry you feel that way. Humans are more than capable of dodging and avoiding pounces through various evasive maneuvers.
Just with goon being the most expensive class for all s1/2 it should be able to kill things nicely.
Chomping is just as handy in certain situations as pouncing is in others.
Pouncing is always handier except in some ramps.
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Pouncing is always handier except in some ramps.
Yes pounce is good, so it should be, it allows for some really fast paced action(something i like about tremulous), but those suggesting that pouncing usefulness should be decreased so that chomp is more used is silly, its along the same lines of wanting rant charge to be lessened so maul is used more or mara claw be reduced so more people use zap...
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As Meisseli said, pouncing is always the better option except on unfavorable terrain (ramps).
And your reasoning against the desires of players for weakening pounce to make chomp the dominant attack again (and your other examples) isn't very solid. As I've said before, the main reason I would want chomp dominant again is because it gives the goon more depth. While chomp is the better option on certain terrain, as Meisseli brought up, that doesn't make it better, in the overall, than pounce by virtue of you being unable to use pounce itself. Chomp will allow you a better chance to kill the opponent at his advantageous position, but it won't do it faster than pounce would in a normal situation.
Not only that, but chomps are much harder to land on a human than pounces, so a human who knows how to move will avoid chomps much more easily than pounces. Hitting a human with pounce is cake though, since there's pretty much no timing involved and no actual aim, only prediction of where the human's going to go. Essentially you pounce at a location, not the human himself. Yet another reason it's better than chomp simply by the way it's set up.
Don't give me the whole "that's strategy" bullshit either, about humans being smart by deciding to stand on ramps and stairs. That only reveals how terribly map based this version is. Not that 1.1 wasn't to some degree (you can't get rid of map-team bias in this game), but you get the point; the more ramps/stairs in a map, the more options the humans have to fuck the aliens up because their movement doesn't work properly on those kind of terrains. We can swing this concept the other way though; the more narrow halls on a map, the easier it is for rants to just camp them and own.
What we have in this version might be balance, but it's not "aliens = humans"(ish) balance. It's "aliens > humans here, humans > aliens there", and it's an uncomfortable balance to say the least.
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Pouncing is always handier except in some ramps.
Yes pounce is good, so it should be, it allows for some really faced paced action(something i like about tremulous), but those suggesting that pouncing usefulness should be decreased so that chomp is more used is silly, its along the same lines of wanting rant charge to be lessened so maul is used more or mara claw be reduced so more people use zap...
Why is it silly? Do you think the marauder zap, tyrant charge and dragoon pounce are fully comparable?
Fun kill stats from Phase 6:
WEAPON US EURO TOTAL
LEVEL0_BITE 188755 21646 210401
LEVEL3_POUNCE 115475 11278 126753
LEVEL3_CLAW 75527 7743 83270
LEVEL2_CLAW 64689 8309 72998
LEVEL4_CLAW 53928 5928 59856
LEVEL4_TRAMPLE 32966 3034 36000
LEVEL2_ZAP 32307 3450 35757
LEVEL1_CLAW 28057 3966 32023
LEVEL3_BOUNCEBAL 16130 1699 17829
LEVEL4_CRUSH 1389 152 1541
Primary attack vs. secondary attack ratio:
P/S RATIO
LEVEL2 2,04
LEVEL3 0,66
LEVEL4 1,66
My biggest gripes with pounce:
- It isn't dodgeable
- It makes chomp basically redundant
- It has a higher DPS than chomp
- It isn't fun, being the pouncer or being pounced
Yes, you really are unable to dodge it even if you're the game's best dodger, if the dragoon is even relatively close to your skill level. I don't find basically an automatically hitting, high-damage weapon fun, and even less when it's nowadays almost the only attack dragoons use.
Now I don't want chomp be like it used to be in 1.1, but some kind of balance between the attacks would be really in place.
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^ This. Goons shouldn't be able to slaughter hordes of S1 humans just because they can't dodge chomp, but what I liked was having to use pounce to open chomp up as an option. Really good dodgers would get distance, so pounce was necessary, but you couldn't kill two birds with one stone as you can in 1.2, with both catching up AND doing major damage.
Depth in the class is the point. This in turn gives the humans depth in movement, in that more of their possible movements are applicable to situations versus goons, but at the same time they have to learn which ones to use given specific situations.
EDIT: Pounce's damage may be the best factor to examine.
Imagine this scenario, but don't take anything as a direct suggestion: pounce changes to do 20 damage (fully charged) to a helmet/light armor equipped human, but the knockback is kept. You pounce a human into a corner. You have him stuck there now, but no longer can pounce rapidly kill said human, at least not nearly as quickly as before. Therefore, you would be at a disadvantage to continue pouncing him, as other humans might come along, or, depending on his weapon and accuracy, he kills you before you kill him. So you decide to use chomp, which, while using it may grant him freedom of movement, you are rewarded with a much faster kill than pounce would get you, IF you aim properly to counter his dodging.
A possible issue I see, however, is keeping knockback with pounce should an attempt be made to balance the attacks so that chomp is more useful in relation to pounce. If you have to catch up to a human IN ORDER TO CHOMP THEM, and you fuck up and hit them and knock them far enough away, you've kinda defeated the purpose of your action.
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If you have to catch up to a human IN ORDER TO CHOMP THEM, and you fuck up and hit them and knock them far enough away, you've kinda defeated the purpose of your action.
This used to be a rather common scenario for me, until I was fully convinced that chomping sucked.
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Chomping doesn't suck. Sure, more often than not, pouncing is the better option, but, chomping does indeed have its uses. Although, I agree with Meis and Dracone that chomping needs to be more of a primary attack than an attack very few people use.
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Those kill stats make perfect sense meis, goon being the most powerful class for all of stage 1 and 2 plus goon is still preferred by some in stage 3, i would be genuinely surprised if the goons most useful weapon wasn't the second highest killer behind the dretch. Its not like those statistics are odd or strange, that number fits in to the statistics quite well.
If all games went all the way to s3 and everyone liked going tyrant and charging around the place, the same people would be in here suggesting that tyrant charge was ridiculous and that it should be dumbed down so that maul was more used as it is a 'primary' attack.
Why should chomping be the main attack? that's so boring and plain, might as well just use marauder if that were so, adv mara claw can output the same dps as goon chomp but is far more maneuverable, in short if goons dont have pounce, they have nothing.
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Pouncing is extremely difficult to dodge and takes almost no skill to use. Good luck taking on any goon, even as a chainsuit.
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Why should chomping be the main attack? that's so boring and plain, might as well just use marauder if that were so, adv mara claw can output the same dps as goon chomp but is far more maneuverable, in short if goons dont have pounce, they have nothing.
"Why chomp for main attack, without pounce the goon is nothing."
If you're going to misinterpret our points, you're not going to get anywhere. I suggest you leave.
But to clarify, we're talking more about use as a weapon. Pounce should be used as an accessory, though having it do damage is fine. It does too much DPS at the moment though.
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"Why chomp for main attack, without pounce the goon is nothing."
If you're going to misinterpret our points, you're not going to get anywhere. I suggest you leave.
But to clarify, we're talking more about use as a weapon. Pounce should be used as an accessory, though having it do damage is fine. It does too much DPS at the moment though.
Your argument would be more solid if it wasn't obvious that you just want your 1.1 goon back.
And I certainly am not misinterpreting anything, I am reading, taking in and offering different points of view, if you don't like opposing points of view I suggest you avoid all forms of communication with anyone and everyone.
I have no problem with you disagreeing with my comments, just don't assume i am ignorant towards your own.
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Your argument would be more solid if it wasn't obvious that you just want your 1.1 goon back. And I certainly am not misinterpreting anything, I am reading, taking in and offering different points of view, if you don't like opposing points of view I suggest you avoid all forms of communication with anyone and everyone. I have no problem with you disagreeing with my comments, just don't assume i am ignorant towards your own.
I'm not assuming you're ignorant to them, I'm saying you are.
Now I don't want chomp be like it used to be in 1.1, but some kind of balance between the attacks would be really in place.
^ This. Goons shouldn't be able to slaughter hordes of S1 humans just because they can't dodge chomp, but what I liked was having to use pounce to open chomp up as an option. Really good dodgers would get distance, so pounce was necessary, but you couldn't kill two birds with one stone as you can in 1.2, with both catching up AND doing major damage.
Maybe I wasn't clear enough, but I shouldn't have had to be. If you are actually anything of a good Tremulous player (the only people who should really have much of a say in this), you would understand what I was saying.
To clarify anyways, I do want the 1.1 goon formula back, which had a balance of chomp and pounce in terms of their use, with chomp being the main damage dealer in combat and pounce as an accessory. The difference would be in the efficiency that a goon can possibly kill humans with those chomps. It would only take a very slight nerf on 1.1 values to create a more reasonable version of the 1.1 goon for 1.2. But if you think that a variation on the 1.1 goon's values as applied to the same optimal fundamental-based combat strategy is "the old 1.1 goon," you're not thinking on details nearly as much as you should be. Read into things please.
And finally, I forgot this:
My biggest gripes with pounce:
- It isn't dodgeable
- It makes chomp basically redundant
- It has a higher DPS than chomp
- It isn't fun, being the pouncer or being pounced
Why should chomping be the main attack? that's so boring and plain, might as well just use marauder if that were so, adv mara claw can output the same dps as goon chomp but is far more maneuverable
"Chomp is not fun, so if it's the main weapon you should just use marauder because it outputs the same DPS." You are making no sense.
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Now normally i would post a response with a key point of my previous statement bolded, something like this: "adv mara claw can output the same dps as goon chomp but is far more maneuverable"
Oops, look what happened
I think where said 'confusion' comes from is that nowadays chomp cant be used mid pounce as there is a cool-down upon landing, now you like the idea of using them in a combination (using pounce to get near the enemy THEN chomping and what not) so as long as this cool-down exists pounce needs to be a useful damage dealing tool, should this cool down be removed then i would have no objections to a reduction in pounce damage or whatever as that way its isn't just removing pounce effectiveness, but it is also adding other avenues to deal damage.
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Chomp mid-pounce hasn't been around (widely) since 2006.
Also, I have no idea what you're trying to differentiate here. When you can chomp after landing with pounce is identical to how it was in 1.1, in terms of how that works. Least that's how it is for me, since I use chomp more than pounce in 1.2 anyways. I should know.
There is no confusion, chomp doesn't work well mostly because of the repeat time being so high, with a range decrease as a slight addition to the overall (though the range being decreased is much more reasonable than the repeat rate), COMBINED with the human's ability to dodge. Also note that the goon having a lower chomp rate decreases the fast pace of combat if the goon is using chomp because the human doesn't have to move nearly as much since he can predict the goon's chomps near-perfectly if he pays attention, since there's such a long pause between them.
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Chomp mid-pounce hasn't been around (widely) since 2006.
Yes that is what I was referring to, I used to play trem way back when that was how it was, then I stopped for ages and now I am back into it on 1.2 and that's no longer an option, i find the new pounce is a reasonable substitute for it. Should pounce effectiveness be reduced and it returns to a more mobility and maneuvering tool, it would just mean reverting the chomp side of things back to 1.1 style necessary to keep the goon useful.
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Now normally i would post a response with a key point of my previous statement bolded, something like this: "adv mara claw can output the same dps as goon chomp but is far more maneuverable"
Oops, look what happened
Do you not care to try to understand what is being said, or are you just being an ass? Just because two attacks have the same DPS and similar range does not make them equal, the marauder has a much higher rate of fire, sits at a different height (a higher viewpoint puts you closer to human head height), and moves very differently. The last point you appear to have realized, but I do not think you have thought out the implications of that. A dragoon in 1.1 could expect to land most of its chomps and chomp at a fairly regular rate, while a marauder generally will land a series of slashes, and then evade. Sometimes one can pull off an evasive maneuver while landing all of your slashes, one after the other, but generally the marauder will stop slashing temporarily during this time. Attempting to land every slash as a mara is a good way to die. The increased rate of fire of the marauder also changes things considerably, since with the dragon, one does not have to be capable of following the human all of the time, just when you're chomping. Hence:
"Chomp is not fun, so if it's the main weapon you should just use marauder because it outputs the same DPS." You are making no sense.
And yes, the goon would have to receive some sort of bonus to chomp if such a change were to be implemented.
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From my Tremstats. I'll just leave this here.
(http://i.imgur.com/r8xCZ.png)
(http://i.imgur.com/NPQBt.png)
The message should be fairly obvious.
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Those kill stats make perfect sense meis, goon being the most powerful class for all of stage 1 and 2 plus goon is still preferred by some in stage 3, i would be genuinely surprised if the goons most useful weapon wasn't the second highest killer behind the dretch. Its not like those statistics are odd or strange, that number fits in to the statistics quite well.
You did misinterpret the point here a bit. The stats were there to say you comparing pounce to other secondary attacks doesn't really work. Pounce is far more powerful compared to other alien's secondary attacks, even so good that it can make the dragoon's primary redundant. And this shows in practise too, ever since people got the hang of the game, pounce has been used really excessively.
If all games went all the way to s3 and everyone liked going tyrant and charging around the place, the same people would be in here suggesting that tyrant charge was ridiculous and that it should be dumbed down so that maul was more used as it is a 'primary' attack.
No? The statistics clearly show how the charge is not being used to such a ridiculous excess. There's no logic behind what you're saying, it wouldn't shift to the opposite even if you'd have all aliens spawn as tyrants.
Why should chomping be the main attack? that's so boring and plain, might as well just use marauder if that were so, adv mara claw can output the same dps as goon chomp but is far more maneuverable, in short if goons dont have pounce, they have nothing.
Chomp shouldn't be the main attack. I don't think anyone here is saying that. But why should pounce be the main attack? Don't you think a balance between the two weapons would be better instead of what we have now?
Now come on, I'll re-use one of my examples I've used multiple times. If a dragoon jumps on top of the reactor, pouncing kills it faster than chomping. Since I naturally want to be as efficient as possible, I have to kill structures with pounce all the time. That is utterly ridiculous.
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I have a bit of an odd proposal. I don't expect it to be taken up, but I'll post it anyway.
At the moment,
- The basilisk can fart all it wants. Non-stop.
- The marauder apparently has power plant glands.
- The dragoon apparently never gets tired of launching itself at supersonic speeds.
- The tyrant can somehow accelerate its gigantic body at breakneck speeds to crush puny humans against walls over and over again.
How about adding a stamina equivalent to some (or all) alien secondary attacks, while keeping the current values for everything else? This will result in the following:
- The basilisk needs to wait a little bit before gassing again. Not really a major change, but whatever.
- The marauder is no longer an infinite wide-area grenade. It has to run away and recharge instead of being able to destroy an entire base by itself. Most maras die after just three zaps or so, thus a lot of people won't notice this change.
- The dragoon pounce is still very deadly, but you have to be much more careful with it. You can't get on top of a human building and constantly pounce into it. You have to think to yourself, do I use my pounces to kill things, or do I dodge with it? How certain am I of being able to run away?
- Poor tyrant. He ate so many twinkies between 1.1 and 1.2 that he can crush things now with his sheer bulk, but all the fat has given him clogged arteries and he can't run so much anymore without getting tired. Now you have to be more careful with your 1110 DPS killing machine. It would be used more for running away than killwhoring in maps with narrow corridors.
These stamina things can be tied to an alien's healing rate. Maybe the basilisk can gain a new use by helping its alien friends recharge stamina faster.
This way, primary attacks gain a larger focus, secondary attacks are deadly but limited, and the violent debates die down.
gg.
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Dude, if i take dragoon pounce and then i take the attacks of all other aliens and i put them in descending order(most powerful first)...
Tyrant Trample 1110
Dragoon Pounce 250
Tyrant Crush 240
Tyrant Maul 125
Dragoon Chomp 100
Mara Claw 100
Dragoon Snipe 91.6
Dretch Bite 72
Basilisk Claw 64
Mara Zap 40
Granger Claw 20
As you can see, that figure fits in quite well to the overall scheme of things, pounce dps seems to be just where you want it too keep dragoon a valuable class even into s3, but remember dragoons are still quite fragile, a couple of naked rifles have the potential to rip you apart within a few seconds, sure it is possible to pounce over to them and pounce each one out within around the same time as well, but that all depends on the players, and that is what you would want/expect from a class costing 3/4 credits when faced with a couple of naked rifles.
You did misinterpret the point here a bit. The stats were there to say you comparing pounce to other secondary attacks doesn't really work. Pounce is far more powerful compared to other alien's secondary attacks, even so good that it can make the dragoon's primary redundant. And this shows in practise too, ever since people got the hang of the game, pounce has been used really excessively.
Yeah, and its excessive use makes perfect sense, dragoon is available during stages 1,2 and 3 whereas the next most powerful class is tyrant, which is only available at s3, so already its obvious why the dragoons most powerful attack is used alot in the scheme of things. Tyrant charge is far greater than pounce but its not as commonly available.
No? The statistics clearly show how the charge is not being used to such a ridiculous excess. There's no logic behind what you're saying, it wouldn't shift to the opposite even if you'd have all aliens spawn as tyrants.
This is a no-brainer, relating back to my above comment, dragoon pounce is the most powerful method of killing people for all s1 and s2 and is still
reasonably effectice in s3 whereas tyrant charge is only available in s3, wow, its almost like dragoons have way more time to kill things and increase the stats for pounce-kills during a game...Now come on, I'll re-use one of my examples I've used multiple times. If a dragoon jumps on top of the reactor, pouncing kills it faster than chomping. Since I naturally want to be as efficient as possible, I have to kill structures with pounce all the time. That is utterly ridiculous.
That is a bit of a shady area, its not so easy, with chomping you can look around, maybe dodge a few luci blasts etc, with pouncing down like that you cut off your vision, you are less aware of shit that's happening and you will most likely get mowed down quicker.
On another note, have you looked at the goon? those tusks on its head look real nasty, id be more worried about getting gored or pounced by those tusks than being chomped by its little baby jaw =))))
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You're on a fucking RC but you need your vision to dodge luci shots so using pounce to kill the RC from the top is sacrificial?
I'm done.
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P/S RATIO
LEVEL2 2,04
LEVEL3 0,66
LEVEL4 1,66Do take the time to read this again. Heck, it's even more obvious when it's turned the other way around:
S/P RATIO
LEVEL2 0,49
LEVEL3 1,52
LEVEL4 0,6So zap is being used 49% of the time compared to claw. Tyrant charge 60%. Pounce, wait what? 152%?? Goons being available throughout the stages has no effect on the ratios whatsoever.
Your stats however are not really helping you. I have no idea what in earth your "all attacks in a descending order of power" with weird numbers means (DPS?), but according to your stat pounce is 2,5x more effective than chomp. And again pounce is basically an automatically hitting weapon with which you can travel half the map's length in less than a second, which none of the other weapons in the list are.
a couple of naked rifles have the potential to rip you apart within a few seconds, sure it is possible to pounce over to them and pounce each one out within around the same time as well, but that all depends on the players, and that is what you would want/expect from a class costing 3/4 credits when faced with a couple of naked rifles.
Not only possible but terribly easy with the so-easy-to-hit pounce. Put a tyrant/marauder/anything to the same job and you're dead.
That is a bit of a shady area, its not so easy, with chomping you can look around, maybe dodge a few luci blasts etc, with pouncing down like that you cut off your vision, you are less aware of shit that's happening and you will most likely get mowed down quicker.
Your mouse isn't magically locked in the reactor while you're pouncing, in fact you have plenty of time to look up between the pounces. You're also able to circle around the reactor pouncing it or pounce repeatedly back and forth. Also, pounce kills the reactor 43% or 3 seconds faster (7 compared to 10, yes, I even checked it, I'm wasting a lot of energy in this debate, am I).
I think the bite is actually slightly better than the pounce now, and my opinion is they ought to be roughly equal in usefulness.
I even got a nice little quote from way back (the dragoon is still the same what it used to be when Norfenstein said the quote). This is what everyone here would want for 1.2 dragoon to be like.
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How about adding a stamina equivalent to some (or all) alien secondary attacks, while keeping the current values for everything else? This will result in the following:
Ok, let's see where you're going with this.
- The basilisk needs to wait a little bit before gassing again. Not really a major change, but whatever.
Um, no, basi gas is underused as it is, this wont help matters, if you feel that it's not really a major change anyway then it's probably pointless.
- The marauder is no longer an infinite wide-area grenade. It has to run away and recharge instead of being able to destroy an entire base by itself. Most maras die after just three zaps or so, thus a lot of people won't notice this change.
So why penalise those players who manage to keep their mara alive longer by making them leave the base, with the risk of getting gunned down in the process, and wait to recharge? Why bother at all if it wont affect most players? Marazap nukes a bad base but it's no magic bullet, it can be very ineffective against well structured bases or a good defence force.
So, yes, goon pounce is silly and overpowered, this is blatantly obvious, but nerfing every other alien for the sake of it doesn't seem terribly helpful.
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1 I want gas to empty or lower humans stamina
2 I want to calculate pounce damage on contact basis rather than "shooting" like calculation. Currently if you pounce somebody and then turn around in midair, you can kill a human BEHIND you
WTF. YES LETS NERF GOONS MORE SO THE BIG BAD GOON CANT KILL ME. I DONT THINK HAVING A DODGE BUTTON FOR HUMANS IS ENOUGH TO GIVE ME KILLS. I ALSO WANT ALIENS TO HAVE -100 HEALTH SO THE ALIENS DON'T CAMP. THX FOR DOING TIS.
So, yes, goon pounce is silly and overpowered, this is blatantly obvious, but nerfing every other alien for the sake of it doesn't seem terribly helpful.
It may be over powered, but the goon is so terrible as it is right now. I would only support the nerf of a goon pounce if they increase the repeat of the chomp, or even extend the range slightly. Its so god awful, I find myself going for a normal mara before I go to an Ad Goon.
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The goon rapes. I don't know what you're talking about.
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Your stats however are not really helping you. I have no idea what in earth your "all attacks in a descending order of power" with weird numbers means (DPS?), but according to your stat pounce is 2,5x more effective than chomp. And again pounce is basically an automatically hitting weapon with which you can travel half the map's length in less than a second, which none of the other weapons in the list are.
They are in fact in descending order of DPS. The formula is DAMAGE PER SHOT * (1/REPEAT) where repeat is in seconds. Pounce does 100 damage, and has a repeat of 400ms (0.4 seconds). This is easily taken from tremulous.h. However, I believe that calculation is wrong, since there is not only a repeat, but also a minimum charge time of an additional 100ms (full charge is 800ms) for pounce, for a total of 200 DPS, as compared to the 100 DPS of the advanced dragoon chomp. The regular dragoon has only 88.8 DPS. Pounce is the same between both classes. This is only if you use optimally short pounces however, your real DPS will be closer to 165 if you miss by roughly 100ms. Finally, I don't believe I have ever landed a headshot with pounce (although I have done legshots, which do less damage) so the DPS of the perfect advanced goon chomper could be as much as 150 (133.3 for regular goon). So even if you can get headshots 100 percent of the time and never miss, short pouncing is better, even if you are 100ms slower than the optimal pounce time.
Therefore, I submit that the only situation in which goon chomp has a clear advantage is in fighting enemies that wear light armor (but no helmet). Enemies that are liable to be 1-hit killed such as the naked rifle depend on whether or not you have pounce already charged past 100ms. If you are a good headshot, it is possible to kill naked rifles in arbitrarily short times with chomp, however if you are unlikely to complete a headchomp the vast majority of the time, it may be better to begin charging a pounce anyways, since pounce is considerably more likely to hit.
Reapd, even if the goon is not to be nerfed, I'd say this is a problem, no?
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OmG guise! new hot topic: Mass Drivers! they are like wellgud overpowered, instakill on dretches! IMPOSSIBRU to dodge! they require practically no skill!
shotguns or pulse rifles should be made more powerful so less people use mass drivers.
Too many people are using weapon A to kill enemies! we should totally make weapon A weaker and weapon B stronger so that more people use weapon B!
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Too many people are using weapon A to kill enemies! we should totally make weapon A weaker and weapon B stronger so that more people use weapon B!
I actually thought this was one of the purposes of doing GPP, to bring the marauder and basi into common usage and the tyrant into a more moderate role. What's the point in having a weapon (or building, such as the DC), if it is never a good idea to use it?
But I feel the need to say this again: pounce as it is, is not as fun for either party as chomp could be and has been.
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OmG guise! new hot topic: Mass Drivers! they are like wellgud overpowered, instakill on dretches! IMPOSSIBRU to dodge! they require practically no skill!
shotguns or pulse rifles should be made more powerful so less people use mass drivers.
Too many people are using weapon A to kill enemies! we should totally make weapon A weaker and weapon B stronger so that more people use weapon B!
(was asked to remove image)
Trolling usually consists of posting content that is intended to spark up a Flame War, Shitstorm, Internet fallout and the like, mainly for the entertainment of the Troll and his/her "friends".
exhibit A:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I_KuwezuYFU&feature=more_related (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I_KuwezuYFU&feature=more_related)
exhibit B:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tW6hZ1XMRl4&feature=related (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tW6hZ1XMRl4&feature=related)
this thread isn't won't go anywhere positive if you keep acting like the way you are.
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SirDude, your extremely crass humor and bold, italicized, underlined red text never fails to amuse.
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*more noise than the supposed troll was ever likely to make*
GJ, sirdude, you're such a valuable member of the community, never leave us for so long again...
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*more noise than the supposed troll was ever likely to make*
GJ, sirdude, you're such a valuable member of the community, never leave us for so long again...
then aren't you adding to that noise?
what ever all i did was call bullshit on how Anonymoose is doing his argument.
_________________________________________________ ________________________________
BUT back on topic, i say pounce should be use more of a opening attack and tool.
IE only does damage if charged to 55% and anything below 45% does very little pushback so you can pounce short distances to close gaps with a target with out pushing them away from you.
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OmG guise! new hot topic: Mass Drivers! they are like wellgud overpowered, instakill on dretches! IMPOSSIBRU to dodge! they require practically no skill!
shotguns or pulse rifles should be made more powerful so less people use mass drivers.
Too many people are using weapon A to kill enemies! we should totally make weapon A weaker and weapon B stronger so that more people use weapon B!
You're again using poorly comparable stuff to create your very own, very bad analogues.
A massdriver requires a considerable amount of aiming, you have to hit in a precise position at a precise time. A dragoon pounce requires very little aiming, you don't have to be precise since you can change the position you're aiming at throughout the attack and when you're close to the human you can just do a 90 degree sweep or so with your mouse which guarantees a hit.
A dragoon has two attacks, a primary and a secondary attack. A human doesn't have two weapons at once, a massdriver and a shotgun as per your example.
Talk of the pounce and chomp please. If you find yourself having poor arguments on them, bringing up poor analogues won't really help either. Throughout the topic you have been dodging responding to the actual main points and oddities with pounce vs. chomp:
- It isn't dodgeable
- It makes chomp basically redundant
- It has a higher DPS than chomp
- It isn't fun, being the pouncer or being pounced
Pounce is very easy to hit and does higher damage than chomp does. Basically pounce is almost always better than chomp. A lot of people don't like the fact that pounce is making chomp redundant and wish the two attacks could be roughly 50/50 in strongness. Now, keeping the overall power of the goon the same why is that in your opinion a horrible thing?
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That's true, but keep in mind that chomps can headshot. This means that during hs1 you can still insta-kill humans, even if they are fully upgraded. That being said, pounce is still overpowered.
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The goon rapes. I don't know what you're talking about.
My mistake, it has a way higher learning curve than any other alien. I don't like how the Chomp takes back seat to the pounce though. I mean, you CAN use a chomp to kill an armored human, but why bother? Pounce is a much more efficient means to kill. Chomps, to me, only seem to good in killing S1 humans and structures, which can both be taken out just as easily with pounce.
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i'm shit with a goon myself, but i have specced many a good goon, and they almost never chomp.
just saying.
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I prefer to chomp, myself.
http://stats.tremulous.net/tremstats/us1/player_details.php?player_id=10650
But when it comes down to it pounce is necessary now, there is no choice if you're actually looking to keep killing shit at a high rate all game long.
I aliased a while back, just a few days of focusing heavily on chomp with goon. Problems came up huge against battlesuits or anyone remotely "good" (for human players these days, someone who binds and uses their dodge key, lmfao).
http://stats.tremulous.net/tremstats/us1/player_details.php?player_id=14794
The "fun" factor of what most of us are saying is in that pounce and chomp were both necessary in 1.1, but now you could literally never use chomp and you'd be fine. Realistically, there is nothing to the goon now but flying through the air and automatically hitting people.
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i'm shit with a goon myself, but i have specced many a good goon, and they almost never chomp.
just saying.
I don't think you can consider that goon good then.
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I aliased a while back, just a few days of focusing heavily on chomp with goon. Problems came up huge against battlesuits or anyone remotely "good" (for human players these days, someone who binds and uses their dodge key, lmfao).
I almost never see a human who dodges the correct way. I purposely unbinded my dodge key. I can dodge as good as, if not better than, the people on US1 who use the dodge key. Why did they input it? Its called jump people. Jesus.
i'm shit with a goon myself, but i have specced many a good goon, and they almost never chomp.
just saying.
I don't think you can consider that goon good then.
This.
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Pounce is very easy to hit and does higher damage than chomp does. Basically pounce is almost always better than chomp. A lot of people don't like the fact that pounce is making chomp redundant and wish the two attacks could be roughly 50/50 in strongness. Now, keeping the overall power of the goon the same why is that in your opinion a horrible thing?
A valid point you make, I don't consider it a horrible thing at all, my only real bitch would be if pounce was reduced say 'too much' to a point where it becomes solely a mobility thing, that would suck, goons are big targets and are sitting ducks when not pouncing around the place to dodge projectiles. Without pounce still packing a substantial punch it would cost too much time not dealing damage to use it in a confrontation, hopes of taking on more than one S2(or higher) humans at a time would be slim, especially with them 'dodging' around the place constantly while shooting. However, if chomp was amped enough to take up the slack... who knows?
Should someone make some alterations and test them out, should they give promising results, you might be able to change some minds. The promise land awaits!
Mind you, the current pounce does work as a nice flip-off to those who over-use the dodge function, now there is a fair amount of satisfaction that...
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Pounce is very easy to hit and does higher damage than chomp does. Basically pounce is almost always better than chomp. A lot of people don't like the fact that pounce is making chomp redundant and wish the two attacks could be roughly 50/50 in strongness. Now, keeping the overall power of the goon the same why is that in your opinion a horrible thing?
A valid point you make, I don't consider it a horrible thing at all, my only real bitch would be if pounce was reduced say 'too much' to a point where it becomes solely a mobility thing, that would suck, goons are big targets and are sitting ducks when not pouncing around the place to dodge projectiles. Without pounce still packing a substantial punch it would cost too much time not dealing damage to use it in a confrontation, hopes of taking on more than one S2(or higher) humans at a time would be slim, especially with them 'dodging' around the place constantly while shooting. However, if chomp was amped enough to take up the slack... who knows?
Should someone make some alterations and test them out with promising results, you might be able to change some minds. The promise land awaits!
Mind you, the current pounce does work as a nice flip-off to those who over-use the dodge function, now there is a fair amount of satisfaction that...
Yeah, the pounce should definitely be usable too but not so that you want to be only using pounce all the time. What I think of how pounce should be is having to deal:
- 2 pounces to kill a larm human (current value)
- 4 pounces to kill a larm+helm (+1 from current value)
- 5 pounces to kill a battlesuit (current value, maybe raise to 6 if really required).
Naturally chomp should be modified (probably just repeat, if truly needed range) accordingly. Now how to implement that without losing the ability to 1-hit pounce (though I wouldn't mind) nakeds is hard. The only way would be to touch the non-locational armour variables.
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Yeah, the pounce should definitely be usable too but not so that you want to be only using pounce all the time. What I think of how pounce should be is having to deal:
- 2 pounces to kill a larm human (current value)
- 4 pounces to kill a larm+helm (+1 from current value)
- 5 pounces to kill a battlesuit (current value, maybe raise to 6 if really required).
Naturally chomp should be modified (probably just repeat, if truly needed range) accordingly. Now how to implement that without losing the ability to 1-hit pounce (though I wouldn't mind) nakeds is hard. The only way would be to touch the non-locational armour variables.
those +1s won't make much of a difference as pounce is being micro spammed, if pounce was made so it
only does damage if charged to 40% (in doing this pounce would hit its max damage faster) and anything below 35% does very little pushback so you can pounce short distances to close gaps with a target with out pushing them away from you. and chomp buffed we would have a balanced good again.
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I'd like to point out that something's been altered about the goon's pounce that causes pouncing to be far less effective in catching up to people now, compared to 1.1. The shorter pounces that allowed you to close smaller gaps don't really work anymore.
Someone want to explain? It isn't just me, and it has nothing to do with the human dodge feature. It's legit "uncomfortable" to attempt to use shorter pounces to catch up, which I have to do if I want to chomp someone who has gained distance.
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I think it has to do with pouncing and then trying to chomp immediately afterward.
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those +1s won't make much of a difference as pounce is being micro spammed, if pounce was made so it
only does damage if charged to 40% (in doing this pounce would hit its max damage faster) and anything below 35% does very little pushback so you can pounce short distances to close gaps with a target with out pushing them away from you. and chomp buffed we would have a balanced good again.
SirDude, unless you have someone wedged into a corner (not a common situation) these 'micro pounces' don't work like that, under normal circumstances you need to charge to over 40% to actually land your hit anyway, anything less and you will most likely fall short or move too slow and the pounce is easily avoided. Spectate anyone who predominantly uses pounce and you will notice they don't use small pounces at all like your saying, most are in fact near on fully charged for maximum speed and force sending foes flying, disorientating and giving time for further powerful pounces to keep smashing them around.
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I'd like to point out that something's been altered about the goon's pounce that causes pouncing to be far less effective in catching up to people now, compared to 1.1. The shorter pounces that allowed you to close smaller gaps don't really work anymore.
Someone want to explain? It isn't just me, and it has nothing to do with the human dodge feature. It's legit "uncomfortable" to attempt to use shorter pounces to catch up, which I have to do if I want to chomp someone who has gained distance.
First off, the dodge feature does make it more uncomfortable. BUT, I think the pounce has a longer cool down time unless you are pouncing again. Because you can spam pounce as long as you let go of MOUSE2 first, but you have to land before you can chomp. Idk really. But it seems to take longer to chomp after pouncing but not for pounce spamming.
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Somebody should draw the line in here. The whole topic is becoming vicious circle. At least I think so.
If someone wants end here, put a neutral conclusion what is been discussed in here. I lost my track totally in this topic, and I'm tired at the moment.
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unless you have someone wedged into a corner (not a common situation) these 'micro pounces' don't work like that, under normal circumstances you need to charge to over 40% to actually land your hit anyway, anything less and you will most likely fall short or move too slow and the pounce is easily avoided.
Bullshit
form a good goon, the opening attack is usually a fully charged pounce with the intention to get you cornered/against a wall, THEN is is micro pounce time. under normal circumstances you aim up to cover more distance with lower charged pounces then aim at you intended target, any good goon knows this. any good goon also knows that goons are easily dodged in a open space, and if you dodge in a closed space and hit a wall you most likly can not dodge the next pounce and thus get cornered.
Spectate anyone who predominantly uses pounce and you will notice they don't use small pounces at all like your saying, most are in fact near on fully charged for maximum speed and force sending foes flying, disorientating and giving time for further powerful pounces to keep smashing them around.
Spectate anyone who predominantly uses pounce and you will notice they only use power pounces to get you cornered, then the will Stop the power pounces and Hammer you into the wall like a nail in a coffin in no Time.
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Bullshit
form a good goon, the opening attack is usually a fully charged pounce with the intention to get you cornered/against a wall, THEN is is micro pounce time. under normal circumstances you aim up to cover more distance with lower charged pounces then aim at you intended target, any good goon knows this. any good goon also knows that goons are easily dodged in a open space, and if you dodge in a closed space and hit a wall you most likly can not dodge the next pounce and thus get cornered.
Actually no, a 'good goon' can use a flurry of powerful pounces and keep the enemy unable to get a good fix on them and will as a result of this superior technique lose far less hp and can sooner get back into the killin!
Spectate anyone who predominantly uses pounce and you will notice they only use power pounces to get you cornered, then the will Stop the power pounces and Hammer you into the wall like a nail in a coffin in no Time.
Loool SirDude NO
Here i made a little doozy in MS paint for you
(http://img862.imageshack.us/img862/3185/kydsr7yb.jpg) (http://img862.imageshack.us/i/kydsr7yb.jpg/)
SirDude, unless you have someone wedged into a corner (not a common situation) these 'micro pounces' don't work like that, under normal circumstances you need to charge to over 40% to actually land your hit anyway, anything less and you will most likely fall short or move too slow and the pounce is easily avoided. Spectate anyone who predominantly uses pounce and you will notice they don't use small pounces at all like your saying, most are in fact near on fully charged for maximum speed and force sending foes flying, disorientating and giving time for further powerful pounces to keep smashing them around.
This post still applies Sirdude, Quality of the pounce is just as important as Quantity, if you were actually good at it you would know this.
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I lol at you mass amount of Bullshit and wait for someone else with time to deal with it first.
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I mass at you lol amount of Bullshit and wait for my currently shattered ego to heal so i can continue being a spanner in the gears of progress.
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the goons i spec usually charge all the way.
i've never seen this "micro pounce" you speak of sirdude. you sure he's not rapidly firing off full (or near full) charge pounces?
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Superpie has, iirc, recorded a demo of Merry Christmas doing his pouncewhoring, might be an idea to ask him nicely if he'll either up the demo itself or create a video so you can see.
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the goons i spec usually charge all the way.
i've never seen this "micro pounce" you speak of sirdude. you sure he's not rapidly firing off full (or near full) charge pounces?
Yeah only if you have someone pinned can you hit with half-assed pounces, other than that near on full charged is the best way to use it.
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I lol at you mass amount of Bullshit and wait for someone else with time to deal with it first.
Calling you out. You suck, don't argue with someone who's played longer than you, because you have no idea what you're talking about. Your idea of a "Good Goon" is from someone on US1 who only uses Humans and when they get to Aliens, they spam the MOUSE2 because "iz srs biznes w goon pnce." A good goon, even in 1.2, will pounce to get to you and then either chomp 3 times (unlikely in 1.2), or pounce to death. I've only seen Cele and QRX with a good goon, because I haven't seen Drac use goon. I would imagine he uses the same idea. THERE IS NO CORNERING. IT'S CALLED LEADING AND CLEARLY YOU HAVE NEVER HEARD OF IT.
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1 I want gas to empty or lower humans stamina
2 I want to calculate pounce damage on contact basis rather than "shooting" like calculation. Currently if you pounce somebody and then turn around in midair, you can kill a human BEHIND you
@topic creator:
1. Yes. Make it more realistic and i like the idea.
2. It is true. You do it to turrets,
@other posts tldr.
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@topic creator:
1. Yes. Make it more realistic and i like the idea.
2. It is true. You do it to turrets,
@other posts tldr.
Don't post on a long-dead thread unless you read everything in the thread. Otherwise, what you say might have nothing to do with the last few posts. At the VERY least read the 5 or so posts before your post. >.> nub