Tremulous Forum
General => Announcements => Topic started by: Lakitu7 on February 07, 2011, 07:35:44 am
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Features:
* (bug 4746) Give some small score to basilisks for healing teammates
* (bug 3404) Warn all admins when a banned player tries to connect
Fixes:
* Fix expired bans falsely showing up in showbans as if they are live; they now list as EXPIRED until next map or /readconfig and can still be /adjustban'ed (thanks Kharnov, Rezyn)
* Fix uninitialized variable usage after failed name match in some cases (Undeference)
* Fix color bleeds in /namelog again
* Fix the bugs we were having with maps setting stage requirements (Undeference)
* Better error messages when there's no match for your targets for some admin commands (Undeference)
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Features:
* (bug 4746) Give some small score to basilisks for healing teammates
Lakitu, you are a friend to friend basi.
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Features:
* (bug 4746) Give some small score to basilisks for healing teammates
Lakitu, you are a friend to friend basi.
Qft!
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For the second bug, does that get logged somewhere?
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A similar message used to only show up in the server console. With this change it shows up an admin message, and that admin message goes to games.log with the other admin messages.
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Now I need to see Bassy heall points on Tremsstats
Basilisk Heal Points: 926
(the amount of HP the player regens when near bassy is the heal points)
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Now I need to see Bassy heall points on Tremsstats
Basilisk Heal Points: 926
(the amount of HP the player regens when near bassy is the heal points)
Tremstats does not show how many points you have gotten from buildings, so no IMO.
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Everything that Tremstats does not can easily be pulled from the logs. To tell you what amount of basi healing you have done, it would require the server to note and remember every time you heal someone; a complete waste of CPU power and hard drive space, not to mention making the logs dirty.
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Everything that Tremstats does not can easily be pulled from the logs. To tell you what amount of basi healing you have done, it would require the server to note and remember every time you heal someone; a complete waste of CPU power and hard drive space, not to mention making the logs dirty.
I have a suggestion for this.
Instead of calculating healing score as a result of raw healing records, define a milestone that is worth a certain number of points. (EG: instead of awarding 10 score for 300HP healed, award 1 score for each 'milestone' of 50HP healed.)
Wouldn't that cut down on CPU usage? It would also make scoring simpler?
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I don't think the CPU & memory use will be significant if you just store the amount of points healed in total during the game. Also, perhaps it shouldn't depend on points healed, but percentage of hp healed, otherwise it will hugely favor healing goons and rants.
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I don't think the CPU & memory use will be significant if you just store the amount of points healed in total during the game. Also, perhaps it shouldn't depend on points healed, but percentage of hp healed, otherwise it will hugely favor healing goons and rants.
What of it? friend basi must sit longer b4 goon and rant are all better, so he deserves xtra points.
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For every second he heals someone, he gets less than 1 points, so you have to heal for a long time.
He SHOULD get on tremstats, as same with building healing.
so its like:
Heal Points (in seconds)
8245 seconds
Base Heal Points (per one repair)
10 right clicks
and stoof like that.
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I hope you guys aren't trying to play the game as though it was based on your tremstats page...
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I hope you guys aren't trying to play the game as though it was based on your tremstats page...
25% of people care only about tremstats. its the ugly truth.
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* (bug 4746) Give some small score to basilisks for healing teammates
Yay!
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I hope you guys aren't trying to play the game as though it was based on your tremstats page...
25% of people care only about tremstats. its the ugly truth.
Well, now they got a way to raise their score by team-bleeding....
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I hope you guys aren't trying to play the game as though it was based on your tremstats page...
25% of people care only about tremstats. its the ugly truth.
Well, now they got a way to raise their score by team-bleeding....
Next update, you lose points for bleeding. Just a bit. More than you would be able to heal as bassy.
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I seriously doubt anyone cares enough to implement basi/bleeding tremstats scores. Too much effort for too little gain.
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I seriously doubt anyone cares enough to implement basi/bleeding tremstats scores. Too much effort for too little gain.
Agreed. Plus it will spam the logfiles making it difficult to find useful stuff.
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I seriously doubt anyone cares enough to implement basi/bleeding tremstats scores. Too much effort for too little gain.
Agreed. Plus it will spam the logfiles making it difficult to find useful stuff.
would be nice if tremstats data was recorded in its own separate file then just in the gamelogs then you can record whatever you want w/out affecting the gamelog
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1. The more that people alter their playstyles and habits on the official servers because we run tremstats, the less likely we are to continue to publicize their results.
2. I seriously doubt anyone cares enough to implement basi/bleeding tremstats scores. Too much effort for too little gain.
I'd say it's more like maaaaybe something like /mystats could be done that keeps track of stuff over the course of a game, and maaaaybe that could be logged at the end of the game, and maaaaybe if both of those were to happen, tremstats could make use of the info, but that's a lot of maybes there, and every time I hear about / see people playing differently (i.e. badly) because of tremstats I for one am far less likely to do anything like this.
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I think that Tremstats has already done its damage as far as changing gameplay goes.
Tremulous never had a "deaths" column in the scoreboard because then people would be afraid to attack for fear of the deaths column making them look bad. Tremstats is really just a delayed "deaths" column to me.
No longer are people willing to send endless waves of dretches to stop those oncoming lucisuits; it would have too much of a negative impact on their stats.
People don't fearlessly rush anymore, it would mess up their kdr.
I honestly think that eliminating Tremstats and making structures worth some credits again would create an entirely different, more aggressive, more fun gameplay style.
In all honesty, I would 100% support pulling Tremstats as long as there would be a place for me to easily (see: not master.tremulous.net) check up on who's in the game right now.
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Entire post
Pretty much sums up my own feelings on the subject at hand.
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People don't fearlessly rush anymore, it would mess up their kdr.
I still do, and it has, horribly, but i tend to agree, far too many people these days have forgotten the art of the relentless, all-in, hopeless, bordering on plain old feeding, rush.
Speaking of stats, i notice steve ballmer is my nemesis.
In all honesty, I would 100% support pulling Tremstats as long as there would be a place for me to easily (see: not master.tremulous.net) check up on who's in the game right now.
Lurk in IRC and consult river-tam, a quick !us1 or !euro in ##ddos on freenode will tell you who's around, she's most helpful.
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In all honesty, I would 100% support pulling Tremstats as long as there would be a place for me to easily (see: not master.tremulous.net) check up on who's in the game right now.
Lurk in IRC and consult river-tam, a quick !us1 or !euro in ##ddos on freenode will tell you who's around, she's most helpful.
!us *
I still like to dretch feed. It's mainly the guys who are not on the top that care so much about their stats anyways.
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I would like to echo some of the concerns regarding Tremstats.
Yes, it does lead to statwhoring, whether explicit or implicit. Efficiency is currently the most visible answer to the question of "how good are you?", even though the concept is incredibly flawed. Tremstats makes no distinction between killing 200 tyrants or murdering 200 grangers. It doesn't matter if you're a good dancer or just someone that plays during the morning hours when a bunch of random unskilled whitenames connect. It doesn't matter if you shoot things with a mass driver or stand in front of the alien base with a flamer until your gas runs out. Basing "efficiency" off a raw numerical count of kills and deaths is a flawed concept.
Efficiency, as is, leads to people doing ridiculous things to keep up the illusion of being skilled. People won't rush an enemy base, or they won't chase after injured opponents, or they'll use extremely annoying tactics just to ensure that they won't die. Dying is perhaps the most visceral thing to someone that looks at Tremstats a lot to keep track of their efficiency. Taking a single risk is akin to public humiliation. Before long, the atmosphere of some public games feels like that of a terrible scrim. Nobody leaves base, they just camp and wait for the other team to arrive.
Long gone are the days when doing something stupid, yet entertaining like rushing the enemy base naked with a grenade didn't negatively impact you at all. One might say, don't pay attention to Tremstats. Don't pay attention to your efficiency. But even the best amongst us fall prey to the lure of seeing your "skills" in numbers. Who doesn't like to see how "good" they are? Don't you feel great after seeing your >1.0 efficiency? I can personally say that I check Tremstats very frequently and it has changed how I feel the game plays. I don't do any of my stupid tactics unless I'm on another qkey. And you know what? It's a whole lot more fun being able to grenade rush naked when you don't have to give a crap. And it's going to be much more easier to not give a crap if the crap is not there in the first place.
Yet, we do not need to necessarily kill off Tremstats. I wouldn't say Tremstats is killing off Tremulous, but it's dragging down the amount of interesting players and play styles. What can be done? I'd personally say get rid of efficiency and the deaths column, as others have suggested. The kills column should probably be kept, but at the same time, it would be best to place a percentages column next to the list of kills by weapon type. It would give your kills with that weapon as a percentage of your total kills, which would give a better indicator of play style. Or, perhaps, replace it with a list of the types of enemies you've killed, and how many? The auto-generated graph at the bottom could be replaced by a bar chart of kills by weapon type, or perhaps a chart of activity by hour of day, similar to the forums? Regardless, I'd like to see Tremstats more as an auto-generated "profile" page for a player than a sort of "look how much bigger my dick is than yours" page. The more percentages involved, the better.
Thank you for taking the time to read this.
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Entire post
Pretty much sums up my own feelings on the subject at hand.
I agree also.
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I would like to echo some of the concerns regarding Tremstats.
Yes, it does lead to statwhoring, whether explicit or implicit. Efficiency is currently the most visible answer to the question of "how good are you?", even though the concept is incredibly flawed. Tremstats makes no distinction between killing 200 tyrants or murdering 200 grangers. It doesn't matter if you're a good dancer or just someone that plays during the morning hours when a bunch of random unskilled whitenames connect. It doesn't matter if you shoot things with a mass driver or stand in front of the alien base with a flamer until your gas runs out. Basing "efficiency" off a raw numerical count of kills and deaths is a flawed concept.
Efficiency, as is, leads to people doing ridiculous things to keep up the illusion of being skilled. People won't rush an enemy base, or they won't chase after injured opponents, or they'll use extremely annoying tactics just to ensure that they won't die. Dying is perhaps the most visceral thing to someone that looks at Tremstats a lot to keep track of their efficiency. Taking a single risk is akin to public humiliation. Before long, the atmosphere of some public games feels like that of a terrible scrim. Nobody leaves base, they just camp and wait for the other team to arrive.
Long gone are the days when doing something stupid, yet entertaining like rushing the enemy base naked with a grenade didn't negatively impact you at all. One might say, don't pay attention to Tremstats. Don't pay attention to your efficiency. But even the best amongst us fall prey to the lure of seeing your "skills" in numbers. Who doesn't like to see how "good" they are? Don't you feel great after seeing your >1.0 efficiency? I can personally say that I check Tremstats very frequently and it has changed how I feel the game plays. I don't do any of my stupid tactics unless I'm on another qkey. And you know what? It's a whole lot more fun being able to grenade rush naked when you don't have to give a crap. And it's going to be much more easier to not give a crap if the crap is not there in the first place.
There's a reason why my ratio isn't as high as it could be, and not just because I don't play enough to be at my peak. I'd much rather see ratio based on points, more than anything else. You kill a tyrant? Good for you, it shouldn't be the same as killing a dretch, it should be treated the same as it is on the scoreboard. You die as a chainsuit? You just gave a lot of evos to some lucky aliens, that too should be reflected in the ratio. Otherwise I think it'd be much easier MD whore, and camp. Hell, it'll bring my ratio up to a nice clean 7, why not?
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While I totally agree with medistation that efficiency should be based on score, I also agree with whale and kharnov that the concept of 'deaths' on tremstats is not helping.
While I like the idea of score/time as an efficiency rating, in that it would encourage strategies that do not involve a lack of deaths, I am also aware that it would have some (although not all) of the negative effects like the current k/d ratio. Now having score and time separately is fine, but combining them into one factor and saying "this is the measure of a player" could result in some measurably annoying tactics as we have seen. Now I do not believe that these values for efficiency do not have some uses, but in general I know how good a player is by playing with/against that player, and seeing that player on the top of the score/kills list per-game.
In summary I like the current tremstats system (there is lots of useful information on players there, and the game logs are also very useful, just take a look at the abuse threads), except for the efficiency and deaths values. The formula for efficiency could be changed, but personally, it would be better to just remove it. There are some things I like about the "efficiency" column, but I don't think that alone is worth it.
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We could do an experiment, kill tremstats for a few weeks, and see what happens?
As much as I love tremstats, I think people here are probably right about it having an impact. I've not played enough trem of late to know if it's a good or bad one.
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We could do an experiment, kill tremstats for a few weeks, and see what happens?
As much as I love tremstats, I think people here are probably right about it having an impact. I've not played enough trem of late to know if it's a good or bad one.
More like "pause" tremstats, so it wont reset.
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I was thinking more just block access to those 4 pages about players, keeping the map stats and game logs etc will be handy.
But either way it's irreliant until some devs arrive.
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re: Tremstats on official servers
http://tremulous.net/forum/index.php?topic=15183.msg217753
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Thank you Lakitu. I'm interested as to how this will effect gameplay now, or if it will at all.
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I think disabling tremstats entirely will be better because what you've taken down is all that we look at, so theyre wont be any big differences.
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TremStats is very useful for aliases and seeing who is on at any given moment.
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And the map balance stats are interesting.
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Also, the game log has great entertainment value. ;D
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And the map balance stats are interesting.
Not sure, but I think this might give some sort lead what maps should be made. Just a hunch, nothing that speaks of experience. :P