Tremulous Forum

General => Feedback => Topic started by: Dr. A. Goon on March 30, 2011, 06:40:13 pm

Title: Customizing Player Models
Post by: Dr. A. Goon on March 30, 2011, 06:40:13 pm
In Q3, there was a large number of (random) player models.  Was this feature removed because it would be too much work, or was it incompatible with Tremulous?  I think that two or three skins for two models could provide a lot of variety for trem gameplay.

EDIT: This would be for the human base model only, and maybe grangers.
Title: Re: Customizing Player Models
Post by: Tremulant on March 30, 2011, 08:06:43 pm
I imagine they only had one suitable model for the final release, have you created some decent quality models that you'd like to contribute?
Title: Re: Customizing Player Models
Post by: Dr. A. Goon on March 30, 2011, 08:47:48 pm
No, but I am working on a re-skin for the standard model. My friend has made a low-poly md3 for a model replacement in trem, so we could help if the code is enabled.
Title: Re: Customizing Player Models
Post by: Nux on March 30, 2011, 09:26:42 pm
It would be great if you could contribute, but I will that say in my opinion the texture for the human is already pretty nice, so you might have trouble improving on it.

If anything, I'd like to see more models complete with animations available. I would love to make something like this, but it's a bit of an undertaking given my lack of experience with editting md3s (that's after learning about them here and there for a couple of years).
Title: Re: Customizing Player Models
Post by: Dr. A. Goon on March 31, 2011, 06:33:32 pm
The re-skin was thought up after we noticed that a relatively large portion of trem players came from california and texas, so we made a more racially diverse skin(it started out as a brown version of the normal marine and ended up with a few color tweaks).  The problem is that it would mean having a different client to test the model selection on, because I think that it would impact the netcode both client and serverside.
Title: Re: Customizing Player Models
Post by: Tremulant on March 31, 2011, 07:54:40 pm
The re-skin was thought up after we noticed that a relatively large portion of trem players came from california and texas, so we made a more racially diverse skin(it started out as a brown version of the normal marine and ended up with a few color tweaks).
I'm not sure i'm following the logic.
Title: Re: Customizing Player Models
Post by: Qrntz on March 31, 2011, 08:34:20 pm
The re-skin was thought up after we noticed that a relatively large portion of trem players came from california and texas, so we made a more racially diverse skin(it started out as a brown version of the normal marine and ended up with a few color tweaks).
I'm not sure i'm following the logic.
Someone is a separatist.
Title: Re: Customizing Player Models
Post by: CreatureofHell on March 31, 2011, 08:34:37 pm
The re-skin was thought up after we noticed that a relatively large portion of trem players came from california and texas, so we made a more racially diverse skin(it started out as a brown version of the normal marine and ended up with a few color tweaks).
I'm not sure i'm following the logic.
Don't worry. I don't either.
Title: Re: Customizing Player Models
Post by: Lakitu7 on March 31, 2011, 09:39:52 pm
Personally I think it would be a neat compromise to implement letting you choose a color that could be painted on some highlight-type areas of the skins.
Title: Re: Customizing Player Models
Post by: Tremulant on March 31, 2011, 10:03:10 pm
Are you suggesting blacking up the marine?
Title: Re: Customizing Player Models
Post by: SirDude on March 31, 2011, 11:04:28 pm
who says its a marine? does it matter?
I'd bet its a specialized mercenary force as they have to each buy their own weapons.
Title: Re: Customizing Player Models
Post by: Venkman on March 31, 2011, 11:45:19 pm
who says its a marine? does it matter?
You're got'damn right it matters!

Damn Marines always taking our jobs and voting for Obama and wanting everybody to get all gay married and shit! That's what's wrong with Tremulous today: All the Commie propaganda!
Title: Re: Customizing Player Models
Post by: Qrntz on April 01, 2011, 04:47:17 pm
marines
Commie propaganda!
whut~
Title: Re: Customizing Player Models
Post by: GeneralScott on April 01, 2011, 08:21:55 pm
He's a Republican.
xD
Title: Re: Customizing Player Models
Post by: kharnov on April 01, 2011, 11:06:00 pm
Personally I think it would be a neat compromise to implement letting you choose a color that could be painted on some highlight-type areas of the skins.

I actually really like this idea, it'd be great to tell people apart that way. Could also benefit clans in some way.

The only problem is, how can this be done?
Title: Re: Customizing Player Models
Post by: Qrntz on April 01, 2011, 11:23:42 pm
The only problem is, how can this be done?
I remember kind of doing that myself in Q3A. Wasn't too hard, basically involves duplicating a texture, re-coloring (or whatever) it and packing it back with a different name as a skin.
Trem is ioq3, so, I suppose, it won't be much different.
I'll investigate on that.
Title: Re: Customizing Player Models
Post by: kharnov on April 01, 2011, 11:26:41 pm
The only problem is, how can this be done?
I remember kind of doing that myself in Q3A. Wasn't too hard, basically involves duplicating a texture, re-coloring (or whatever) it and packing it back with a different name as a skin.
Trem is ioq3, so, I suppose, it won't be much different.
I'll investigate on that.

Please do so. If you can get something working, you can probably demonstrate this to a developer.
Title: Re: Customizing Player Models
Post by: Lakitu7 on April 02, 2011, 12:09:36 am
It'd be *really* cool if it could be done with a shader that gets the color from a userinfo cvar or something, rather than duplicating the textures. That would both save on bandwidth/space/whatever and allow a much larger variety of color customization, but I really have no idea how feasible that is, so if it's only really workable with duplicate textures, then don't let that discourage you from working on it.
Title: Re: Customizing Player Models
Post by: KillerWhale on April 02, 2011, 01:57:03 am
OSP/CPM implemented "bright" skins, which were white textures, but you could colour them using menu settings.

I'm sure there's an open source implementation of it out there somewhere, and if not, it wouldn't be too hard to figure out what's going on by just looking at the assets a bit.
Title: Re: Customizing Player Models
Post by: Venkman on April 02, 2011, 07:45:42 am
marines
Commie propaganda!
whut~
He's a Republican.
xD

 For the record, I was just being satirical by comparing the "what's wrong with Trem today" threads going around with political talk-radio rhetoric. I'm actually a fan of Marines, mainly because I'd rather keep all my killing to a simulated environment. Every enlisted man is one more between us nerds and a reinstated draft. So hoo-fucking-rah and thank you for signing up so I can stay home and play video-games.

To get back on topic, I'd love to have the option to modify my colors, though it might be dangerous to allow fully-paintable skins. Jet-black Bassi assassins are one obvious possibility. The highlights idea would be cool though.
Title: Re: Customizing Player Models
Post by: A Spork on April 03, 2011, 05:01:08 am
Jet-black Bassi assassins are one obvious possibility. The highlights idea would be cool though.
Actually, ive been thinking basis should be a lot darker than they are now, seeing as they are assassains.....

[/offtopic]
Title: Re: Customizing Player Models
Post by: Qrntz on April 05, 2011, 02:12:01 pm
Okay.
So what my little bit of research shows is that one of the possible way to change skins would be to change the skin name in an override file, though... well, that way doesn't work. At least for me. It's still the default skin.
Replacing the texture itself from an external pk3 or changing the default skinfile so it points to a non-default texture works for me, though that kind of defeats the purpose.
I'd love to hear some explanations or at least 'you're doing it wrong' from the devs. :)
P.S. I did all the testing on my main box, which (for now) has only an ES1000 for graphics, and that means a fully in-software 3D rendering at slow speeds and with bugs. I'll check this on the other computer too ASAP to check the real outcome.
Title: Re: Customizing Player Models
Post by: Venkman on April 07, 2011, 07:57:27 am
Actually, ive been thinking basis should be a lot darker than they are now, seeing as they are assassains.....

Now that you mention it, making :basilisk: darker could be a simple way of giving the class a bit more of an edge in GPP (though a few players have commented that the class is already OP.)

Still, if you're going to turn a spider-possum into a ninja, I think it should be dark enough to blend in with shadows. What's more ninja than the ability to become one with darkness?
Title: Re: Customizing Player Models
Post by: ziplocpeople on April 07, 2011, 11:59:53 pm
Actually, ive been thinking basis should be a lot darker than they are now, seeing as they are assassains.....
Still, if you're going to turn a spider-possum into a ninja, I think it should be dark enough to blend in with shadows. What's more ninja than the ability to become one with darkness?
Wearing orange jumpsuits and shouting really loudly on important missions.
Yeah, I went there. Believe it.
EDIT: For the sake of staying on topic, trem is kinda bland with only one human. You'd think a clone army would use more than just one person's genetic code. I mean, if there's any sort of flaw in their genetic code, the "come on guy" would have to stop saying "come on" and start saying "I need a medic!" We should really be more realistic here.
Title: Re: Customizing Player Models
Post by: zybork on April 10, 2011, 10:25:50 pm
Another thing that comes to mind is that not only humans would need certain parts of their textures to be colored, but aliens as well. You could giv'em kinda tiger strips or something. Could look pretty cool if done properly.
Title: Re: Customizing Player Models
Post by: Lakitu7 on April 21, 2011, 04:58:38 am
With help from a lot of people (but mostly benmachine), I am proud to present proof of concept:
(http://lakitu.mercenariesguild.net/temp/colors/shot0010.jpg)

Color is applied from a cvar cg_color you can set yourself. It's not multiple textures.

There is still a lot of work to be done on this (mostly, figuring out how to apply the effect to only parts of a skin), and we have not really discussed the idea to decide if everyone is cool with including it, but it is at least possible.
Title: Re: Customizing Player Models
Post by: Lakitu7 on April 21, 2011, 06:18:57 am
(http://lakitu.mercenariesguild.net/temp/colors/shot0011.jpg)
Hello pink bsuit I am blue granger nice to meet you!

Note: I realize that coloring entire models like this does not look very good. It is just temporary while people that understand shaders figure that part out.
Title: Re: Customizing Player Models
Post by: vcxzet on April 21, 2011, 07:00:53 am
I told it to benmachine a few years ago.
It has been used by a few mods.
(Not to mention, it exists in q3a since its release)
So, It is quite uninteresting for me. But I appretiate your effort.
(BTW look at a few q3 skins. For the whole skin coloring, you should look at warsow skins)
Title: Re: Customizing Player Models
Post by: mooseberry on April 21, 2011, 09:40:59 am
The re-skin was thought up after we noticed that a relatively large portion of trem players came from california and texas, so we made a more racially diverse skin(it started out as a brown version of the normal marine and ended up with a few color tweaks).
I'm not sure i'm following the logic.
Don't worry. I don't either.

Just because nobody seemed to respond to this, I assumed it was because in both California and Texas the percentage of non-Hispanic whites is less than 50%. My next step in following the logic was assuming he assumed that players wouldn't mind having the option to customize their model to more reflect themselves, and since, for example, black and Hispanic populations in California make up almost 45% of the population, he figured there may be a fair amount of players with darker than albino skin (although honestly, most tremulous players are probably scared of the sun anyways, so the accuracy of this statement might not be true.)
Title: Re: Customizing Player Models
Post by: Tremulant on April 21, 2011, 11:30:30 am
Darker than albino? i should think the vast majority of players have "darker than albino skin", either way, thanks for injecting some statistics, do you happen to know how many people in those states are blue grangers?

I take it there'll be a clientside option to turn off these re-coloured skins(just the general recolours, not necessarily the more precise human racial diversity ones), so that players with darker/lower contrast colours don't have an advantage?
Title: Re: Customizing Player Models
Post by: Meisseli on April 21, 2011, 11:43:30 am
Hello pink bsuit I am blue granger nice to meet you!

Note: I realize that coloring entire models like this does not look very good. It is just temporary while people that understand shaders figure that part out.
Not bad. I hope that only some very minor bits can be customized though, for example those brownish, small little areas on the battlesuit skin.
Title: Re: Customizing Player Models
Post by: Lakitu7 on April 21, 2011, 05:36:11 pm
Yeah, more minor bits is pretty much the plan for most models I think, with the possible exception of the human base model since those are already clothes.

Ingar figured out how to do the shaders for partial, so now we're just making assets (i.e. figuring out which parts to color) and then this can happen I think.
Title: Re: Customizing Player Models
Post by: vcxzet on April 21, 2011, 06:07:35 pm
Chosen color must determine hue not value. I'd hate to see black ninja grangers
Title: Re: Customizing Player Models
Post by: Dr. A. Goon on April 21, 2011, 06:29:04 pm
I'm happy that it might get implemented, and I would like a glowing purple granger if one is available.
Title: Re: Customizing Player Models
Post by: gimhael on April 21, 2011, 06:43:10 pm
Chosen color must determine hue not value. I'd hate to see black ninja grangers

If the colored part is implemented with a second "rgbGen entity" stage, you'll probably have the colored parts always at fullbright intensity as you cannot specify rgbGen lightingDiffuse in the same stage.

You could do this correctly in a 3-stage shader: 1st stage renders the base texture with rgbGen identity, 2nd stage adds the colored parts with rgbGen entity and then do a final pass with $whiteimage and rgbGen lightingDiffuse to modulate the light intensity for everything.
Title: Re: Customizing Player Models
Post by: Lakitu7 on April 21, 2011, 06:52:58 pm
Chosen color must determine hue not value. I'd hate to see black ninja grangers

If the colored part is implemented with a second "rgbGen entity" stage, you'll probably have the colored parts always at fullbright intensity as you cannot specify rgbGen lightingDiffuse in the same stage.

You could do this correctly in a 3-stage shader: 1st stage renders the base texture with rgbGen identity, 2nd stage adds the colored parts with rgbGen entity and then do a final pass with $whiteimage and rgbGen lightingDiffuse to modulate the light intensity for everything.


Yeah both of those are the current plan.
Title: Re: Customizing Player Models
Post by: sirshiz on April 21, 2011, 08:31:54 pm
I can't wait to make a bind that will cycle through all the colors over and over just to hypnotize the other team.
Title: Re: Customizing Player Models
Post by: Lakitu7 on April 21, 2011, 08:50:07 pm
Yes that is specifically prevented.
Title: Re: Customizing Player Models
Post by: sirshiz on April 21, 2011, 10:00:51 pm
Yes that is specifically prevented.

Okay good I was worried about that.

How often could you change your color then?
Title: Re: Customizing Player Models
Post by: Lakitu7 on April 21, 2011, 10:30:08 pm
My current plan (haven't coded/tested it yet) is to only read your color preference when you're spawning / evolving.
Title: Re: Customizing Player Models
Post by: Cadynum on April 22, 2011, 01:58:40 am
I'm very skeptical to this. I have a feeling it will just look stupid.
Title: Re: Customizing Player Models
Post by: Spl@ on April 22, 2011, 02:54:56 am
I'm very skeptical to this. I have a feeling it will just look stupid.
Agreed!
Title: Re: Customizing Player Models
Post by: Lakitu7 on April 22, 2011, 03:02:28 am
I hate garish rainbow colors everywhere too. It'll be subtle.
Title: Re: Customizing Player Models
Post by: vcxzet on April 22, 2011, 08:19:39 am
I hate garish rainbow colors everywhere too. It'll be subtle.
you can go with another option; predefined skins, instead of colors
that would effectively limit the colors that can be used.
something used in q3a:
each model has a few different skins and each skin has a few color variations (but those are also considered skins)
cg_color is only used by railgun iirc
Title: Re: Customizing Player Models
Post by: KillerWhale on April 22, 2011, 05:27:49 pm
something used in q3a:
each model has a few different skins and each skin has a few color variations (but those are also considered skins)
cg_color is only used by railgun iirc
Not quite true; Q3 also had bright skins (although I do not it was as so by default) that were colour-set by cvar.
Although, predefined textures could be a better way to do it, or even both.

Perhaps doing something like the Advanced Marauder's texture where the lightning is separate from the rest of the skin, but for all of the changeable assets.
Of course, I could just be very stupid.
Title: Re: Customizing Player Models
Post by: Kasofa on April 22, 2011, 05:50:25 pm
Want want want. Great work, anyone who doesn't think so should just shut their mouth and stop their keyboard.

-K
Title: Re: Customizing Player Models
Post by: Plague Bringer on July 21, 2011, 04:32:31 am
Any progress on this? I just discovered this while creeping through Lakitu's posts and it's frigging brilliant.
Title: Re: Customizing Player Models
Post by: ULTRA Random ViruS on July 21, 2011, 07:19:08 pm
I think we should at least start with a female model for [/sex female] command.