Tremulous Forum
General => Feedback => Topic started by: Dark Applepolisher on August 05, 2006, 05:42:56 am
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A weapon that is entirely hitscan, costs a mere 150 credits, and is available in S1 should NOT be able to cause 50ish damage when in very close range. Not to mention that it has a generous clip size of 8, and its rate of fire cooldown time isn't bad, either.
Giving the shotgun a reduction in any of the formerly mentioned categories should properly nerf it.
Finally, I'd like to let the devs know that I honestly do appreciate their game, enjoy playing it, and am glad that it is still fairly balanced.
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Shotgun's fine.
The game, as a whole, is surprisingly well balanced. Really.
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Just reduce the damage a slight amount. I know how annoying it is to get shotgunned from far away, and still take a lot of damage. That shouldn't happen.
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TAH PEINSAHW IS UNDERPOWAHT!!!!
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Dretches do 48 damage a bite. Shotguns do 56 a shot if ALL bullets hit the target. Shotguns have a slower repeat rate than the dretch bite, and only do max damage from just over dretch biting range (unless the target is huge), but cost 150 credits.
Ok, so shotguns own dretches before they get close, if the player is decent. Well, marauders, the approximate cred/EP equivalent of the shotgun, kill rifle wielders with ease if the player is decent.
How is it that shotguns are OP, then, and marauders are fine?
Also, marauders own shotguns because of their agility.
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lol direct comparison of alien and marine weapons
just lol
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lol direct comparison of alien and marine weapons
just lol
Yeah, because comparing the effectiveness of comparably priced classes is just wrong :roll:
On another note, I'm forgetting that light armour would widen the gap between dretch and shotgun damage. But still, the point remains: it just isn't supposed to easy to take down a shotgun with a dretch, just like it isn't supposed to be easy to take down a marauder with a rifle.
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I love shottie, can own a tyrr with one clip :]
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Same here, love it <3. No reason to nerf it. Shotgun is very powerful when aliens are s1/2 and still useful in s3. Nerfing shotgun in someway would be like moving headbites from aliens to s2 :(. If you have trouble killing shptgun users, just sneak up behind, first for head and rest should be easy....
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Shotty is not an overpowered weapon, due to the spread. Also, it's the only thing good enough for a goon trying to poke your eyes out and you're alone.
Any good goon can take a good shottyman in one swipe so I really don't see how this is an overpowered weapon.
Shotty also takes skill, mind you. 8 shots per clip isn't really much if you don't time your shots right.
Also, remember that a dretch headshot does 96dmg!!! After that, even a granger's spit kills you.
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If you have trouble killing shptgun users, just sneak up behind, first for head and rest should be easy....
There are many players in this game that are good enough to not be snuck up on like that.
Also, it's the only thing good enough for a goon trying to poke your eyes out and you're alone.
If that's the case, then apparently the other human weapons that are more expensive are underpowered. Fortunately, I myself, don't believe that's the case.
Any good goon can take a good shottyman in one swipe so I really don't see how this is an overpowered weapon.
Shotgun: 150 credits
Dragoon: 3 evolutions.
Getting 150 credits is cake. Getting 3 evolutions, while not difficult, is a heck of a lot harder. In an evenly matched game, I only expect the aliens to have some basillisks and a few marauders, but no dragoons when the humans get shotguns.
It's rather ironic that the shotgun was made for killing big bad aliens, but totally sucks against them, but it totally wipes the floor with dretches and lisks.
One of my many other complaints is that the shotgun doesn't have a "true" maximum range. Being hit by a shotgun at 20 meters away is still ridiculously annoying because it cancels the alien regeneration. The pushback value is also quite annoying. Sitting ontop of a shotgunners head as a lisk, I was pretty sure I had the guy. Nope, he managed to pull one shot off at me, and that sent me flying well off of his head, and with 50 damage done to me, I wasn't going to risk closing in to get the kill.
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I so love my Shotty.
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You'll take my shotty when you pry it from my cold, dead hands
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If you have trouble killing shptgun users, just sneak up behind, first for head and rest should be easy....
There are many players in this game that are good enough to not be snuck up on like that.
And there are good maras that can just jump from their hide and hit a human in the head and quickly do the second swipe to finish the human. And a basi just needs to surprise and grab the shotgun wielder. You aren't supposed to run towards humans with shotgun and check if there are any left overs in the shotgun barrel from previous aliens that have confronted their end.
The pushback value is also quite annoying.
Eeer...you think shotgun isn't supposed to have pushback? What about if we remove it from grenades too...Maybe we could turn the pushback into a sucking effect, so that you end up over the humans head.
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Here's the thing with the shotgun: The reload is kinda slow. When you are in close combat with an enemy you BETTER hit them with a blast or you can be toast. Add 2 enemies who know what they are doing and you are prolly dead. You have to be quite proficient to use the shotgun.
You say the shotgun needs to be nerfed? How about a headshot from an S1 Dretch? Instant death. Let's just put a little perspective on things, shall we?
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Headshot dretch is 94 points of damage, not instant death :) Think about that before going on a s1 run to the alien base after taking some falling damage just outside your base.
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Shotgun is only overpowered in the right hands which makes it NOT overpowered. (see my logic? 8) )
For one, i can't kill shit with it.
For two, i can barely survive from a fight with someone who uses it correctly
(Shooting when the mara is RIGHT above you and strafing out of the way at the same time to avoid the headbite)
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Shootgun is ok and not overpowered. After some times using it, I feel it's only good to kill Mara and maybe lesser aliens. Sure it does quite pack a lot against bigger aliens but in the end, it's DPS isn't that high. It's more the sudden damage it causes that can surprise kill a goon or a tyrant. But those two aliens can kill you so much faster than you can that it isn't exactly the best weapon for the job.
On the other hand, it truly shines against the marauder and is the weapon of choice against such aliens. Because they are bouncing around a lot, you only have very short windows of opportunity to place a well aimed shot on them. That's where the shotgun ( and mass driver ) works best : shoot when they are falling on your head. Agaisnt a good shotgun user, marauders should probably refrain from jumping a lot and play more like a dragoon.
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Shootgun is ok and not overpowered. After some times using it, I feel it's only good to kill Mara and maybe lesser aliens. Sure it does quite pack a lot against bigger aliens but in the end, it's DPS isn't that high. It's more the sudden damage it causes that can surprise kill a goon or a tyrant. But those two aliens can kill you so much faster than you can that it isn't exactly the best weapon for the job.
On the other hand, it truly shines against the marauder and is the weapon of choice against such aliens. Because they are bouncing around a lot, you only have very short windows of opportunity to place a well aimed shot on them. That's where the shotgun ( and mass driver ) works best : shoot when they are falling on your head. Agaisnt a good shotgun user, marauders should probably refrain from jumping a lot and play more like a dragoon.
if you think shotgun is bad for killing goons, you don't know how to use the shotgun, i regularly kill bad goons s1 with it, and once i get my helmet, i can kill good goons about 50% of the time. maybe there are better weapons for killing large aliens (though i don't think anything is unconditionally better than the shotgun), it is by far the easiest to get. whenever i run low on credits (even in s3) i pick up a shotgun, armor, and helmet, and go chasing after the goon that is attacking our base.
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if you think shotgun is bad for killing goons, you don't know how to use the shotgun, i regularly kill bad goons s1 with it, and once i get my helmet, i can kill good goons about 50% of the time. maybe there are better weapons for killing large aliens (though i don't think anything is unconditionally better than the shotgun), it is by far the easiest to get. whenever i run low on credits (even in s3) i pick up a shotgun, armor, and helmet, and go chasing after the goon that is attacking our base.
Of course. When you are low on credits, a weapon you can buy is much better than a weapon you cannot buy.
And there is no doubt the shootgun is an incredibly good weapon for it's very low cost.
Still, Chaingun is better than shotgun to kill dragoons and tyrants. I've already killed a group of 4 adv dragoons with battlesuit + chaingun. Couldn't have done it with shootgun because of the reload time alone.
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Would making the shotgun cost something like 200-250 credits really over-nerf it?
If people here are claiming to completely slaughter auders and goons, then surely it might be overpowered.
In fact, I can't think of a single S1 or S2 alien that is good against shotguns. Dretches, can be killed in one shot, 'nuf said. Basillisks, the pushback of the shotgun can cancel your grab. Marauders, jumping is the most skillfull thing a marauder can do, and jumping at a shotgunner is suicide. Goons are pretty damn good against a shotgunner, you'd think. But I keep hearing stories on this thread of people owning goons with a shotgun.
The pushback value is also quite annoying.
Eeer...you think shotgun isn't supposed to have pushback? What about if we remove it from grenades too...Maybe we could turn the pushback into a sucking effect, so that you end up over the humans head.
Do I really need to explain some Newtonian physics to you? Shotgun push back is NOT that powerful. The pushback power of a shotgun is the same as the recoil effect. So if you want the alien to be thrown back a few feet, then the human shooting it should be thrown back likewise. Learn physics before you start insulting me. :P
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I keep hearing stories on this thread of people owning goons with a shotgun.
the thing is, even though shotgun can own goons, against a good goon (and without a helmet) one wrong move means getting headchomped, so either the goon is pretty bad, or the human has bought a helmet and light armor with the shotgun, which is on par with the 3 evo points that the goon spent. on the other side, i can usually take out shotguns as a goon s1, but when they get s2, it is pretty much 50/50 against good humans, but i can easily run much of the time if i choose to do so and make it with 30hp.
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Do I really need to explain some Newtonian physics to you? Shotgun push back is NOT that powerful. The pushback power of a shotgun is the same as the recoil effect. So if you want the alien to be thrown back a few feet, then the human shooting it should be thrown back likewise. Learn physics before you start insulting me. :P
So you are saying all the other physics are right in this game? Compared to other weapon's pushback, shotgun's is just right. I wouldn't just feel right if shotgun and rifle had same pushback. And btw, since when has this game with aliens, futuristic weapons and buildings build without any material, been fully restricted to reality? Although I might want that pushback to effect human too, it would be so helpful in dodgeing. That of course, would make it even more "over powered".
Like someone said, in good hands shotgun is really effective in s1/s2. Reason why it might look OP is that usualy people who are really good with it, use it. Noobs just love buying that chaingun, they think that shotgun's low cost = bad damage. But almost any weapon/alien class is over powered in hands of a good player.
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for goons
dodge shoot dodge shoot dodge shoot goon whines, press x shoot, shoot , dodge shoot dead goon
for maras
shoot, strafe, crouch shoot, strafe, shoot, crouch, shoot, strafe shoot, mara whines, press x shoot shoot dead mara
Shotgun does not need to be nerfed. as someone said to moi the other day
GET SOME SKILL
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for goons
dodge shoot do..
CHOMP, napkin just ATE your poor silly ass
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Would making the shotgun cost something like 200-250 credits really over-nerf it?
If people here are claiming to completely slaughter auders and goons, then surely it might be overpowered.
In fact, I can't think of a single S1 or S2 alien that is good against shotguns. Dretches, can be killed in one shot, 'nuf said. Basillisks, the pushback of the shotgun can cancel your grab. Marauders, jumping is the most skillfull thing a marauder can do, and jumping at a shotgunner is suicide. Goons are pretty damn good against a shotgunner, you'd think. But I keep hearing stories on this thread of people owning goons with a shotgun.
The pushback value is also quite annoying.
Eeer...you think shotgun isn't supposed to have pushback? What about if we remove it from grenades too...Maybe we could turn the pushback into a sucking effect, so that you end up over the humans head.
Do I really need to explain some Newtonian physics to you? Shotgun push back is NOT that powerful. The pushback power of a shotgun is the same as the recoil effect. So if you want the alien to be thrown back a few feet, then the human shooting it should be thrown back likewise. Learn physics before you start insulting me. :P
maby you should lern the physics?
the amount of energy excerted into both is the same, however the force isnt. the effect on the gun is spread out over a longer time, as the shot accelerates down the barrel. this means less force but for a longer time.
also the balick is massivly smaller then a human? notice how goons dont move when hit?
also the humans have army boots with good grip and will brace as thay fire.
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maby you should lern the physics?
Maybe YOU should learn physics too.
Anyway, the kinetic energy of the shootgun pellets are much better spent doing internal damage to the target than harmlessly pushing it back.
Also, have a look at that site : http://www.intuitor.com/moviephysics/ especialy the "The Attractive Force of Glass" section for shootgun pushback.
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Maybe we should stop careing about the physics. This isn't a simulator. And anyway, how can we know how future weapons function :roll:. They could have all kinds of internal stabilizers and force fields, that accelerate the shotgun bullets to full speed. :roll:
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Maybe we should stop careing about the physics. This isn't a simulator. And anyway, how can we know how future weapons function :roll:. They could have all kinds of internal stabilizers and force fields, that accelerate the shotgun bullets to full speed. :roll:
That's a good idea : Include in the weapon backward jets to counter the recoil when firing :D
Anyway, I agree with you, we aren't looking for a realistic game, weird physics aren't a problem at all for a game.
The only thing we should be removing are dumb things. Money system is one of them : why the hell are human soldier buying their own weapon with their own cash ? If I was one of them and saw that I would run screaming from such stupid army ! No way I'll risk my neck for them :P
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The only thing we should be removing are dumb things. Money system is one of them : why the hell are human soldier buying their own weapon with their own cash ? If I was one of them and saw that I would run screaming from such stupid army ! No way I'll risk my neck for them :P
what money? ill I see in my game is credits, you get awarded credits for hurting aliens
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The only thing we should be removing are dumb things. Money system is one of them : why the hell are human soldier buying their own weapon with their own cash ? If I was one of them and saw that I would run screaming from such stupid army ! No way I'll risk my neck for them :P
what money? ill I see in my game is credits, you get awarded credits for hurting aliens
Aren't you a little pedantic here ? :roll:
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The only thing we should be removing are dumb things. Money system is one of them : why the hell are human soldier buying their own weapon with their own cash ? If I was one of them and saw that I would run screaming from such stupid army ! No way I'll risk my neck for them :P
what money? ill I see in my game is credits, you get awarded credits for hurting aliens
Aren't you a little pedantic here ? :roll:
Not neccesarily, he brings about a good point. Maybe instead of thinking of credits as money, you should think of credits as merits. Gather enough merits and you get a promotion, fall in battle and you lose the promotion you gained and have to work up more merits.
EDIT: Because, let's face it, an army making soldiers pay for equipment in money? That's rediculous. Now, making them earn merits to increase to more elite ranks (so to speak) is a more sensible way to think of it. You could even view the credits that you get for staying alive as a sort of.. survival merit? Something like that.
It made sense to me.
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...fall in battle and you lose the promotion you gained and have to work up more merits.
Now let's get this straight, (bearing in mind that these are clearly the same people as the unused credits are passed on) this guy has been awarded privelages for his courage and valor in battle only to be shunned for having died while trying to do the same thing?
XD
I don't think a 'promotion' is the way to look at it. You could say that they are just making sure they only give their weapons to the people who continually prove their effectiveness in using them..
..or maybe you get a wage for giving your country some more tastey alien meat? What else would this war be about? =P
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ummmm, Hummies are mercenaries!
'nuff said?
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What did I say about dumb reasons ? :D
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CHOMP, napkin just ATE your poor silly ass
napkin and a few others are the exceptions to that rule lol
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...fall in battle and you lose the promotion you gained and have to work up more merits.
Now let's get this straight, (bearing in mind that these are clearly the same people as the unused credits are passed on) this guy has been awarded privelages for his courage and valor in battle only to be shunned for having died while trying to do the same thing?
Hey, you fail your mission, you get demerits. :P
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Yeah, nothing like sending badly equiped mens to the battlefield to maximise your chance of victory 8)
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Yeah, nothing like sending badly equiped mens to the battlefield to maximise your chance of victory 8)
I beg to differ.
There are alot of things like sending badly equipped men to the battlefield to maximize your chance of victory.
Sending badly equipped marshmallows is one of them. :P
Good point though =)
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...fall in battle and you lose the promotion you gained and have to work up more merits.
What else would this war be about? =P
That brings up a good question...what is this war about? :P
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its all about the badly equipped marshmallows.
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Damn those marshmellows :x
And their gooey goodness :P
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Its a corporation. Not a governement. Is all about CREDITS, because credits is the current space money. On the about page is writed like that, a corporation.
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Its a corporation. Not a governement. Is all about CREDITS, because credits is the current space money. On the about page is writed like that, a corporation.
Exactly ! And since training a soldir costs far far much than most weapons you give them, it's expected that for money reason, you give them the best equipment possible so as to maximise their chance to get back alive !
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Its a corporation. Not a governement. Is all about CREDITS, because credits is the current space money. On the about page is writed like that, a corporation.
Exactly ! And since training a soldir costs far far much than most weapons you give them, it's expected that for money reason, you give them the best equipment possible so as to maximise their chance to get back alive !
Don't forget the marshmallows :wink:
Those aliens must be a peskily frequent problem if they have a whole corperation based on killing them. :P
..or maybe they used to do arts and crafts before the aliens arrived.
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For god sake!
Is a honest Corporation trying to save the world and win some honest money. You can't make profit if you give a Battlesuit and a Lucy to the first noob that join our army. So theres a system where the soldiers WILL buy the weapons from his own money. That way the solviers will really care about the weapons and the waste of very valuable corporative credits will be minimal.
The corporation is here to make money, Ok?. Is a job. So go and clean that dawn "Transit" station from the infestations. For gods sake!.. Is only a few unintelligent bugs and you are a human with modern weapons. What can do? Byte your ass?. You are not a space marine, but a corporal private. There here are not "merits" but money, only money.
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If you have trouble killing shptgun users, just sneak up behind, first for head and rest should be easy....
There are many players in this game that are good enough to not be snuck up on like that.
Yeah, good players also have to be nerfed.
The shotgun is balanced, more-or-less. When a goon can 1-hit kill you (and from quite far away if they're good with their pounce) and a mara can do it in 2 hits, does it seem OP that a shotgun takes 4 or 3 perfect shots respectively? The spread makes it so it takes at least twice that from farther off.
The only balancing I think would be remotely fair would be to decrease the damage per pellet to 6 or so, giving it 48 damage a shot. That way you can't take out a Tyrant in one magazine (lol, shotgun magazine) But then it takes 5 perfect shots to kill a goon, when a goon can still get you in one.
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Its a corporation. Not a governement. Is all about CREDITS, because credits is the current space money. On the about page is writed like that, a corporation.
the corporation is myspace
those pesky emo kids :human:
The only balancing I would be fair would be to make it fire more pellets doing less damage, maybe 12 pellets doing 4 damage each, giving it 48 damage a shot. That way you can't take out a Tyrant in one magazine (lol, shotgun magazine) But then it takes 5 perfect shots to kill a goon, when a goon can still get you in one.
na leave it so that mediocre players like me can actually take down goons at s1 lol
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For god sake!
Is a honest Corporation trying to save the world and win some honest money. You can't make profit if you give a Battlesuit and a Lucy to the first noob that join our army. So theres a system where the soldiers WILL buy the weapons from his own money. That way the solviers will really care about the weapons and the waste of very valuable corporative credits will be minimal.
The corporation is here to make money, Ok?. Is a job. So go and clean that dawn "Transit" station from the infestations. For gods sake!.. Is only a few unintelligent bugs and you are a human with modern weapons. What can do? Byte your ass?. You are not a space marine, but a corporal private. There here are not "merits" but money, only money.
Don't mind me. I just like to argue. As long as it's friendly =)
So, this corperation is making money. Who's paying them?
The government maybe? Oh, so we're back to square one :P
I think this game has alot more value when you think more about killing the bug-eyed aliens and less about the workings of the tremulous universe.
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this game is well balanced. THat should be considered in every proposal: Will this throw off the balance that already exists. Next thing you will say that goons shouldnt be able to insta kill in s1
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Don't mind me. I just like to argue. As long as it's friendly =)
So, this corperation is making money. Who's paying them?
The government maybe? Oh, so we're back to square one :P
Anyone who's played D&D knows perfectly well that all monsters carry loads of money. Even if there doesn't seem to be a way to carry it ;)