Tremulous Forum

General => Feedback => Topic started by: SirDude on July 03, 2011, 10:57:37 pm

Title: A much better menu system.
Post by: SirDude on July 03, 2011, 10:57:37 pm
As some of you my remember, i have talked about a game called BattleZone, one of the few other (and it might even be the first) FPS/RTS game.

There are a Few things from battlezone that i say we must copy outright, due to the fact it is so refined and smooth that a brand new player will have a no trouble at all picking up.

And that is the menu system, the menu is so smooth you be moving from point A to B or engaged in heavy combat and Que up buildings, combat units, health, ammo, and new weapons to equip all with in seconds smoothly.

And the fact Trem is less of a Rts then BattleZone is means it will be easy to implement.

This is the menu system.
(http://i.imgur.com/8Hoiy.png)

I want a silo so i choose the constructor by pressing the 8 key.
(equip a construction kit)

I don't have scrap (BP) so i wait for my scavengers to collect some (BP getting freed)
(http://i.imgur.com/JB5au.png)


My scavs have now collected enough scrap for mu silo, highlighting its name a giving me the option to build it.
(http://i.imgur.com/CEVt6.png)


By pressing 6 i can choose to build it or cancel it.
(http://i.imgur.com/CyyPQ.png)

From what i have showed you so far this menu system is very easy to learn, and could easily be implemented in trem, with out the need for annoying pain in the ass binds.

this would for evolving, building, and equipping weapons and armor. (Humans would need some sub menus but this system actually benefits from it).


If you guys would like to try out this system you can go download battlezone for free legally, it works with XP, vista, and windows 7. I would also like to say Ken Miller one of the original devs for battlezone is working on a new patch, multiplayer is still active and not a pain in the ass to use. (only the music is not included but you can download it and get it to work with the game properly).
http://www.battlezone1.org/

There is a lot from this game to learn from. and the least we could copy would be this menu system.






Comments?
Title: Re: A much better menu system.
Post by: FukinRave_ on July 04, 2011, 01:32:17 am
I'm pretty sure all modern Huds have chatmenu, Is this what you were looking for?
Title: Re: A much better menu system.
Post by: Nux on July 04, 2011, 01:33:49 am
I'm sorry, but I fail to see how this is any different to binds. My binds for example also use the number keys to select buildings and classes/weapons.
Title: Re: A much better menu system.
Post by: SirDude on July 04, 2011, 02:55:41 am
That's kind of the point nux, to get rid of the absolute NEED for the binds.

Title: Re: A much better menu system.
Post by: Qrntz on July 04, 2011, 03:23:38 am
to get rid of the absolute NEED for the binds.
Code: [Select]
cg_thoughtPowerSensitivity 42
Title: Re: A much better menu system.
Post by: Nux on July 04, 2011, 03:29:33 am
I suggest you explain what it is about binds you don't like. The lack of user interface? The fact that you have to set them yourself?

I agree that the menu system in tremulous is annoying and comparable alternatives to binds would be nice, but you haven't actually given any suggestions that aren't equivalent to binds. Sadly, you've done more to advertise this game than you have to explain your suggestion.
Title: Re: A much better menu system.
Post by: SirDude on July 04, 2011, 07:16:10 am
what do i need to explain? Well uh, the lack of a interface, i have to set them myself, it isn't newbie friendly, its lacks any polish, they can be a pain in the ass to set up, and are just a stop-gap to a improved menu.


Why do we have to make a brand new menu system, when we can copy one far superior to the one we have now? And does it matter if its like the binds some people have, its still a major improvement, and far more noob friendly.

And yes i am kinda advertising this game a little, its a great game of similar type that we can learn from and i recommend you play it as you will likely like it.
Title: Re: A much better menu system.
Post by: c4 on July 04, 2011, 07:33:46 am
Well copying code can get sketchy not to mention this game probably runs on a different engine than trem, making it hard to copy paste.
Title: Re: A much better menu system.
Post by: Plague Bringer on July 04, 2011, 08:25:12 am
Well copying code can get sketchy not to mention this game probably runs on a different engine than trem, making it hard to copy paste.
You must have misunderstood the OP.

A fully configurable set of binds with complementary chatmenu would be fantastic to see in a vanilla Trem release.
Title: Re: A much better menu system.
Post by: c4 on July 04, 2011, 03:39:38 pm
Well copying code can get sketchy not to mention this game probably runs on a different engine than trem, making it hard to copy paste.
You must have misunderstood the OP.

A fully configurable set of binds with complementary chatmenu would be fantastic to see in a vanilla Trem release.


Why do we have to make a brand new menu system, when we can copy one far superior to the one we have now? And does it matter if its like the binds some people have, its still a major improvement, and far more noob friendly.
Title: Re: A much better menu system.
Post by: RAKninja-Decepticon on July 04, 2011, 06:26:28 pm
Why do we have to make a brand new menu system, when we can copy one far superior to the one we have now? And does it matter if its like the binds some people have, its still a major improvement, and far more noob friendly.
if quake 3's bind system is too complex and unfamiliar at this stage, my guess would be the average player has been "dumbed down" by consoles.

not like there are not a plethora of games that outright use the licensed engine, or an engine heavily "based" on it (a la source), which have all been around ten years or more.

same goes for the chatbox.  it's q3 man, not rocket science.
Title: Re: A much better menu system.
Post by: SirDude on July 04, 2011, 08:06:20 pm
its not that they are too complex (well more most newbies), its that its hard to manage especially when your goal is to eliminate the need for the In game menus.

Oh and im not saying copy the code out right, that's just retarded, what i am saying is have the menus operable with at # keys at least. It doesn't have to be the way BattleZone did it, hell If you want another example, look at counter strike.
Title: Re: A much better menu system.
Post by: Qrntz on July 04, 2011, 11:23:52 pm
its not that they are too complex (well more most newbies), its that its hard to manage especially when your goal is to eliminate the need for the In game menus.
I see no point. In-game menus for newbies, binds for pros. Why eliminate easy menus? Why avoid fast binds?
Title: Re: A much better menu system.
Post by: /dev/humancontroller on July 05, 2011, 04:44:10 pm
That's kind of the point nux, to get rid of the absolute NEED for the binds.
one day binds were implemented, to get rid of the absolute NEED for future menu systems.
OTOH, the bind construct (coupled with the engine's command-line workings) is not powerful enough as one wants it to be.
Title: Re: A much better menu system.
Post by: Qrntz on July 05, 2011, 05:05:55 pm
That's kind of the point nux, to get rid of the absolute NEED for the binds.
one day binds were implemented, to get rid of the absolute NEED for future menu systems.
OTOH, the bind construct (coupled with the engine's command-line workings) is not powerful enough as one wants it to be.
Unofficial clients have conditionals and printable variables. That's pretty much enough IMO.
If you want the CLI to be more powerful, integrate zsh into ioq3.
Title: Re: A much better menu system.
Post by: /dev/humancontroller on July 05, 2011, 06:09:41 pm
zsh
zomg!
-z perhaps?
Title: Re: A much better menu system.
Post by: Menace13 on July 05, 2011, 06:52:43 pm
I already have all my number keys bound. I dislike this idea.
Title: Re: A much better menu system.
Post by: Qrntz on July 05, 2011, 07:54:15 pm
zsh
zomg!
-z perhaps?
Try it, you'll like it perhaps? :)
Bash would be okay too, but not so okay.
Title: Re: A much better menu system.
Post by: F50 on July 05, 2011, 09:25:23 pm
I believe volt's hud has everything you are asking for.
Title: Re: A much better menu system.
Post by: SirDude on July 06, 2011, 05:55:09 am
its not that they are too complex (well more most newbies), its that its hard to manage especially when your goal is to eliminate the need for the In game menus.
I see no point. In-game menus for newbies, binds for pros. Why eliminate easy menus? Why avoid fast binds?

cuse only pro bike riders ride with no hands, using your hands if for newbies.

Why not combine easy menus WITH fast binds, so binds get used to do several actions at once instead of using them to totally eliminate menus. right now binds are just a stop gap to a better menu.
Title: Re: A much better menu system.
Post by: F50 on July 06, 2011, 09:01:30 pm
I'd hardly call binds a stop-gap measure, but keyboard-driven menus can be both quick *and* visibile. It should be possible to revise the current armory menu only slightly, and apply keyboard shortcuts to make it almost as fast as other visible menus such as found in Urban Terror or in volts hud. SirDude is right, the things can and should be much faster.

Just don't eliminate binds :).
Title: Re: A much better menu system.
Post by: Anonymoose on July 07, 2011, 04:46:10 pm
SirDude has made a good suggestion, i am stunned.