Tremulous Forum
Community => Strategies and Tactics => Topic started by: lamefun on September 08, 2011, 12:40:45 am
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If I use a dretch, I can survive for sometime walking on walls, but if I use something bigger, I just catch lots of bullets and die, unless I ambush humans from behind a corner. How to kill humans in places that aren't corners?
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Well, get a sense of what you are up against, how much damage will they slap by the time you get to them, and if you can kill em considering your skill vs. theirs. Open areas make for easy dodging of stuff like lucis. Chainguns, p-rifles, and lasguns are pretty nasty in open high seperation areas.
When in doubt, retreat to a corner.
Circling is fun, practice it, essential for Goons/rants... im not *pro*, but can kill 2 lucci bsuits in a large enough area like niveus human def base or outside in karith by confusing the hell out of them and killing from behind.
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If I use a dretch, I can survive for sometime walking on walls, but if I use something bigger, I just catch lots of bullets and die, unless I ambush humans from behind a corner. How to kill humans in places that aren't corners?
practice. save the evos for one type of alien and only use that aside from dretch. most people end up liking and predominantly using mara or goon. i'm bad with goon and worse with mara, but i'm a fairly decent basi. so keep working on it till you at least find something you like.
another point is knowing when to evolve. if the enemy gains a stage on you, you might have to dretch it so that you dont waste what evos you have, for example when humans reach s2 and you only have one evo... generally not the best time to go basi.
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No, RAKNinja, you never exclusively practice one class unless when you're new to the game, you follow the idea you just pointed out and only play one alien. It makes for not very well roundedness, and once you've gotten really good with one class, why would you ever play anything else?
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No, RAKNinja, you never exclusively practice one class unless when you're new to the game, you follow the idea you just pointed out and only play one alien. It makes for not very well roundedness, and once you've gotten really good with one class, why would you ever play anything else?
If you're exclusively good with one class odds are you'll be good at the others. It's not apples and oranges.
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No, RAKNinja, you never exclusively practice one class unless when you're new to the game, you follow the idea you just pointed out and only play one alien. It makes for not very well roundedness, and once you've gotten really good with one class, why would you ever play anything else?
If you're exclusively good with one class odds are you'll be good at the others. It's not apples and oranges.
Just a guess here but I think the Marauder handles differently than a Tyrant.
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No, RAKNinja, you never exclusively practice one class unless when you're new to the game, you follow the idea you just pointed out and only play one alien. It makes for not very well roundedness, and once you've gotten really good with one class, why would you ever play anything else?
If you're exclusively good with one class odds are you'll be good at the others. It's not apples and oranges.
Just a guess here but I think the Marauder handles differently than a Tyrant.
The main attacks are the same, you aim and slash... If you're an amazing marauder you're not going to be a completely shit Tyrant.
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No, RAKNinja, you never exclusively practice one class unless when you're new to the game, you follow the idea you just pointed out and only play one alien. It makes for not very well roundedness, and once you've gotten really good with one class, why would you ever play anything else?
If you're exclusively good with one class odds are you'll be good at the others. It's not apples and oranges.
Just a guess here but I think the Marauder handles differently than a Tyrant.
The main attacks are the same, you aim and slash... If you're an amazing marauder you're not going to be a completely shit Tyrant.
Classes aren't based solely on attacks. I think agility is far more important for Marauders than Tyrants.
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No, RAKNinja, you never exclusively practice one class unless when you're new to the game, you follow the idea you just pointed out and only play one alien. It makes for not very well roundedness, and once you've gotten really good with one class, why would you ever play anything else?
if i can do it, odds are that other people can as well. i worked on learning basi first. true, i may evolve to basi sometimes when i am practicing a different class, but i tend to have enough self discipline to evolve to what i am working on.
The main attacks are the same, you aim and slash... If you're an amazing marauder you're not going to be a completely shit Tyrant.
Classes aren't based solely on attacks. I think agility is far more important for Marauders than Tyrants.
creatureofhell: why?
vape: we agree on something! amazing! you've hit the nail on the head. some specifics are different from class to class, but from basi to rant it's aim and slash. learn how to do it with one, and you can adjust to the paticularities of the class you are playing as. prolly why i fuck up so much with bigger aliens, i keep expecting basi range.
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not true
If you try to basi a bsuit, you may be able to get behind it and hold it while slashing. Whereas if you're a good and you try to slash a bsuit to death, chances are, you'll get raped if the suit knows how to move at all. You need to learn pounce and that shit as well.
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The main attacks are the same, you aim and slash... If you're an amazing marauder you're not going to be a completely shit Tyrant.
Classes aren't based solely on attacks. I think agility is far more important for Marauders than Tyrants.
creatureofhell: why?
Because Marauders can jump and Tyrants can't. A Marauder has far less HP than a Tyrant and so it relies on being nimble to dodge enemy attacks. Tyrants are far less nimble and so rely on their large amount of HP to protect them while they attack.
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Because Marauders can jump and Tyrants can't. A Marauder has far less HP than a Tyrant and so it relies on being nimble to dodge enemy attacks. Tyrants are far less nimble and so rely on their large amount of HP to protect them while they attack.
but a rant does not have all THAT many hp. he still needs to learn how to avoid fire to make the most of the HP he has. therefore, agility is still important to a tyrant. yes, not to the extent that a mara is, but it helps.
now, on that logic, would you not think that using the mara and discovering what kinds of erratic movement works best at breaking aim would also help a rant to some extent?
on that token, why would getting good with a mara not help you as rant?
not true
If you try to basi a bsuit, you may be able to get behind it and hold it while slashing. Whereas if you're a good and you try to slash a bsuit to death, chances are, you'll get raped if the suit knows how to move at all. You need to learn pounce and that shit as well.
that is why it is generally not a good idea to basi a bsuit. that's part of the specific tactics of using a basi. learning to grab and slash a suit as a basi surely helps you when you are slashing or chomping that same suit with a larger class.
the OP wanted advice, i told him what worked for me. i'm decent- not great, not spectacularly bad- with all classes. that is how i learned.
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now, on that logic, would you not think that using the mara and discovering what kinds of erratic movement works best at breaking aim would also help a rant to some extent?
Not really, keeping your charge up and having the balls not to run from the fight when you're getting low(only running if you've got plenty of health, otherwise you're better off either faking and turning back to deliver your charge or just staying and fighting up close) have nothing to do with mara skills, of course timing your slashes is a standard transferable skill for most aliens, but that wasn't the point.
on that token, why would getting good with a mara not help you as rant?
because they have very little in common, i can't skip around, climb a wall and run like fuck without getting chased down when using a rant(partly because i'm a terrible rant).
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Saying that agility is equal or even close to as important as primary attacks is just foolish. Aiming is the most important thing for any class/weapon and just by playing the game no matter what class or weapon you use you're going to get better aim, if you have amazing aim with a marauder, you're not going to forget how to aim when you use a Tyrant. Adjusting to range and learning secondary attacks is all you need to do when learning how to use different classes.
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now, on that logic, would you not think that using the mara and discovering what kinds of erratic movement works best at breaking aim would also help a rant to some extent?
Not really, keeping your charge up and having the balls not to run from the fight when you're getting low(only running if you've got plenty of health, otherwise you're better off either faking and turning back to deliver your charge or just staying and fighting up close) have nothing to do with mara skills, of course timing your slashes is a standard transferable skill for most aliens, but that wasn't the point.
on that token, why would getting good with a mara not help you as rant?
because they have very little in common, i can't skip around, climb a wall and run like fuck without getting chased down when using a rant(partly because i'm a terrible rant).
again, you are dealing with class specifics, the kind of thing you practice to adjust to. aiming and slashing is fairly similar for all classes above dretch.both mara and rant are capable of good speed and fairly quick direction changes. yes, in different ways, but the basics are still the same.
let's say i dont know how to play either mara or rant at all. if i learn mara, i lean how to bounce around and zig-zag dodge. with rant i have to learn how much i can tank, when to use charge as transportation rather than an attack, and how to move so that i am not always taking damage.
with both i learn about aiming and timing swipes. with both i learn how to gauge distance for attacks. the basics.
when someone asks me "how do i play aliens" i dont try to tell them about class strategies and such, i want to give them a good grasp on the basics first. i, personally, feel that you can learn the basics as any class.
again, i agree with vape. the biggest part of any fps is muscle memory - aim. no matter what you learn to aim with,your aim will not magically evaporate when you switch classes.
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I think if you can aim the game is easy.
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When 1.2 comes out, it should come with pre-made demos, on how to play.
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:laugh:
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:laugh:
:) LOL
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:laugh:
:) LOL
>:(
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I think if you can aim the game is easy.
especially if you play human and have one half of your keyboard bound to fire weapon, the other half bound to walk backwards
=D
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:laugh:
:) LOL
>:(
:'(
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:laugh:
:) LOL
>:(
:'(
8)
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:laugh:
:) LOL
>:(
:'(
8)
:o
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:police:
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trempolice :o :o :o :o :o
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If I use a dretch, I can survive for sometime walking on walls, but if I use something bigger, I just catch lots of bullets and die, unless I ambush humans from behind a corner. How to kill humans in places that aren't corners?
You have to do some thinking.
Oh the humans are rushing our base or are starting to.
So you follow them until they are away fem their safe base,
poison them and kill them. Humans are particularly weak when they are away from base or are by themselves.
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why is ur tomato clown mad josh :-[
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If I use a dretch, I can survive for sometime walking on walls, but if I use something bigger, I just catch lots of bullets and die, unless I ambush humans from behind a corner. How to kill humans in places that aren't corners?
You have to do some thinking.
Oh the humans are rushing our base or are starting to.
So you follow them until they are away fem their safe base,
poison them and kill them. Humans are particularly weak when they are away from base or are by themselves.
problems with this -
humans are rushing, do we even have a way out to flank, as you describe? what to do when you dont?
any human with half a brain will look behind himself from time to time. the ones that dont are usually food regardless of if you attack from behind or head on.
what to do when no booster for poison (not s2, no BP)? what to do when humans refuse to separate from a group?
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If I use a dretch, I can survive for sometime walking on walls, but if I use something bigger, I just catch lots of bullets and die, unless I ambush humans from behind a corner. How to kill humans in places that aren't corners?
You have to do some thinking.
Oh the humans are rushing our base or are starting to.
So you follow them until they are away fem their safe base,
poison them and kill them. Humans are particularly weak when they are away from base or are by themselves.
problems with this -
humans are rushing, do we even have a way out to flank, as you describe? what to do when you dont?
any human with half a brain will look behind himself from time to time. the ones that dont are usually food regardless of if you attack from behind or head on.
what to do when no booster for poison (not s2, no BP)? what to do when humans refuse to separate from a group?
Examples are what I gave, a guide on the aliens would comprise several paragraphs and would be a considerable endeavor.
I'm just trying to prompt thought; for instance : "You don't run straight towards them, you think about how to kill them within the current situation and how they may respond when you attempt to kill him/them."
When I started I tried to get my kills with minimal wall-walking, plus I didn't vary my movement enough (or much to any thought :) ) and gave (especially the massdrivers) perfect aim. When you think from multiple perspectives such as how to frustrate their aim -- as if you were the human then things tend to be more successful.
why is ur tomato clown mad josh
Because Mad-Toma perma banned me for saying I owned a pair of them,
it got resolved but I like the name for some reason.
They are fairly ferocious fish though,
I've had them chase off(they jumped) $100 of fish before I got the clue that their specie is much more aggressive then say your average nemo/Percula clown.
(http://www.apetinc.com/site/largepics/748/73520/277130/557420/Clownfish_-_Tomato2.jpg)
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(http://www.pixar.com/featurefilms/nemo/images/tale_left.jpg)
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your examples sound geared to dretch, which the OP said he didnt have much problem with - it was the bigger things giving him problems.
your examples do have some application for larger aliens, yes, but in my own experience, these things become less important as you evolve. maras and above are kind of made to take on multiple humans head on. poison helps larger aliens, but the lack of it isnt as crippling to them as it is to dretches vs s2+ humans.
and it's hard to sneak up behind someone when you make so much noise moving around.
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(http://www.pixar.com/featurefilms/nemo/images/tale_left.jpg)
Bah right when that film hit clowns jumped from $5 to like $20-$30 lol
Thus I have my cheaper and readily avaible tomatoes.
Regarding the tactic, yes it's geared for getting a better class..
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Play dretch through stealth when alone or in a group with anything less than a mara. When breaking out of hiding, it becomes about killing them as fast as possible, since humans can grossly outmaneuver dretches (they could in 1.1 too really, but dretches were smaller and harder to hit while moving quickly in that). Don't retreat with dretch if you get weak. That just assumes that you leaving there is going to save your team one feed when in reality it might mean your fuckface teammates going and getting killed more easily, possibly resulting in even more feeds. Waste of time anyways, dretches actually aren't worth shit relatively, the times I scrimmed in this version made it pretty apparent that you could afford to be reckless pretty often with them even in more formal play.
Don't bother fighting with lisk until you get very good at wallwalking and decent at aiming. You'll also need solid reaction time. However, if you're a low HP dretch with 1 evo and there are no enemies around, evo to lisk and you'll heal faster, although this only really works out well if you think you can follow up, or if your team is S1 or you're too far from base at higher stages.
Mara is probably the most beneficial class to learn in the game, because its aim/movement correlation will improve the aim of your dretch, lisk, and human, the reason being that aiming with the mara is largely about learning to control your aim in every way while changing your movement in all aspects, all of this at once. Sometimes you have to do a huge circle with mara if they circle around you, sometimes you have to just stay locked on steady in front of you, etc...Don't use zap against enemies unless you feel like it's actually going to do something and the delay won't hurt you; it does have a long fkn range, so work with that I guess. Also, its mobility is overrated, the only reason to even learn how to jump with mara is to get away, and to be honest, it floats so badly now that you're probably fucked anyways if you get that weak. I can rarely get away with mara easily if I'm chased by someone who can move quickly, and I know how to move with mara pretty well. Also, if you try to use mara against groups, you're either going to just get raped, or your team will consist of dragoons who have to use pounce to do any damage, which will probably fuck you up badly since you'll either get pounced or your potential targets will get pushed away, and distance between yourself an enemy is more deadly to the mara than any other class, except dretch and lisk (but that's more of an initiation thing for those two classes, while for mara, you'll get outmaneuvered).
Dragoon is absolutely necessary to learn, despite it being the most unique class. I'd bet on 3 S2 humans with shotties over 8 maras in a fight between the two groups, all with decent skill on their own parts. But 2 good goons and maybe a dretch or something could take them. Learn to pounce spam first, boring as shit as it might be; there's no point in even trying to learn the fucked up chomp of GPP until you know how to stay close to your enemy and counter their general movements. If they dodge a lot, you'll have to be even faster. Understand that there is no delay between when you chomp and when your pounces can deal damage (in that order). If you miss your chomp, you can pounce as fast as possible afterwords and it will hit them, but to be honest, you're not going to effectively chomp anyone who spams dodge, because by the time you catch up with a pounce, you either knocked them back out of chomp range or you landed in front of them and they dodged again. But keep in mind that if they dodge as they get hit by a pounce they can actually go well out of anything less than a strong pounce's range, essentially fucking you over completely in the fight. Prevalent message: The goon is the only real "all around" class in the game, and it's a fkn shitty one.
Rant is my weakest class, but it's the easiest one conceptually: if the walls are tight, charge the enemies into them, and they will probably die. If they don't, slash them. It's only any good for base defense and directly attacking their base though.
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but dretches were smaller
I'm pretty sure the only difference is that the model was scaled up to fit the bbox—i.e., they are the same size but they look bigger now.
Don't bother fighting with lisk until you get very good at wallwalking and decent at aiming.
On the other hand, basilisk only costs one point, so you don't really have to be very good at it to start using it. And, as long as you don't block larger teammates too much, they like it.
Also, [the marauder's] mobility is overrated, the only reason to even learn how to jump with mara is to get away
Or to quickly get behind humans or around obstacles without actually going around them. Or if you're fighting a human with a lucifer cannon or flamer. Or most humans, since they tend to have trouble tracking marauders—even a lot of "pro"s with mass driver. Also, if you try to use mara against groups
in largish public games, jumping and zapping alone can usually get you a couple kills without dying.
[Tyrants are] only any good for base defense and directly attacking their base though.
Because of the lower hp and faster turrets, tyrants are pretty bad against decent bases in gpp. You do better attacking bases with marauders and dragoons than tyrants, but tyrants are pretty good at disrupting the human defenders.
Edit: A quick note to no one in particular since this seems as good a place as any other about attacking bases with advanced dragoons that a lot of people seem to not think about: barbs in gpp are essentially heavy artillery. Just as you wouldn't (hypothetically) fire AGMs in an area where your infantry was engaged, be very selective with barbs when teammates are nearby.
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personally, i learned basi before mara. i feel you are more useful to the team when you are a portable booster, rather than just being a dretch. you also learn the best ways to fight while avoiding your bigger teammates.
working mara has helped me with my basi jumpslashing. it's worth learning how to do a small leap directly over the top of a human so as you hit the headshot in passing.
mara mobility has helped me when i sporadically use it.... if i switch from walking to jumping, and sometimes throw a walljump in, sometimes jump against the wall but dont walljump.... that seems to really confuse the humans.
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How to play aliens?
Play and watch good players play (though very few still play!)