Tremulous Forum
General => General Discussion => Topic started by: Nightmare106 on January 04, 2013, 09:50:33 pm
-
What is this I've been hearing about on MoDDB's page??? A new game called Tremulous 2 is coming out? Apparently, according to in-game screenshots, the game is going to be cell-shaded like Borderlands and it's also based on Unreal Engine 3, the team behind development is AAA Games and not Dark Legion Development. Do they have permission to do this or the devs allowing them to do this, as far as I know the game is copyrighted. :S Anyone else have a clue about this? The game's release is due by 2014.
-
What is this I've been hearing about on MoDDB's page??? A new game called Tremulous 2 is coming out? Apparently, according to in-game screenshots, the game is going to be cell-shaded like Borderlands and it's also based on Unreal Engine 3, the team behind development is AAA Games and not Dark Legion Development. Do they have permission to do this or the devs allowing them to do this
nothing, in general, prohibits the development of a new game. if the new game is based on Tremulous' source code (released under the GPLv2+ license), then the new game's source code must be published along with the game. if the new game uses assets from Tremulous (released under the CC-BY-SA 2.5 license), then the new game must give credit to the authors of the assets. basically.
as far as I know the game is copyrighted. :S Anyone else have a clue about this? The game's release is due by 2014.
a non-existent thing cannot be copyrighted.
-
As far as we've been given, all assets has been re-made [there's a video for proof for making mara] so we can't go againts this.
-
i dont believe no one checked this section of the website:
(http://i263.photobucket.com/albums/ii132/rakninja/t2judgementday_zps290189aa.jpg)
it seems they are doing little to no engine work, they are all artists.
furthermore, check the forums.
http://tremulous.net/forum/index.php?topic=16949.0
also:
As far as we've been given, all assets has been re-made [there's a video for proof for making mara] so we can't go againts this.
regardless, it is a derived work, and in violation of the CC license if this game is "commercial".
-
As far as we've been given, all assets has been re-made [there's a video for proof for making mara] so we can't go againts this.
regardless, it is a derived work, and in violation of the CC license if this game is "commercial".
what part of
BY-SA
did you both fail to understand?
-
it seems they are doing little to no engine work, they are all artists.
Nalf is a programmer. As far as I know, he has worked on modding GPP and Tremstats. Some of the others might be programmers too, their credit list doesn't say who specifically does what.
-
Nalf is a programmer. As far as I know, he has worked on modding GPP and Tremstats. Some of the others might be programmers too, their credit list doesn't say who specifically does what.
I don't know any of the others, but stating the obvious, rota's also a programmer. He made the funko mod [R Funserver CZ] for 1.1 and made a gpp version for his R unlimited CZ afterall....
as far as I know the game is copyrighted. :S Anyone else have a clue about this? The game's release is due by 2014.
a non-existent thing cannot be copyrighted.
Can't you copyright a project that's in developement?
-
what part of
BY-SA
did you both fail to understand?
good point, lets get to specifics.
Under the following conditions:
Attribution — You must attribute the work in the manner specified by the author or licensor (but not in any way that suggests that they endorse you or your use of the work).
Share Alike — If you alter, transform, or build upon this work, you may distribute the resulting work only under the same or similar license to this one.
they say they have "completely recreated assets". even if it is "original work", it is virtually identical to the source. the objects in question are not common objects or symbols, they are exclusive to tremulous, and released under this license.
now, the question is: is it wrong because it is identical and does not give proper attribution, or is it wrong because it has built upon the origional work, and does not have proper attribution?
-
after checking the Tremulous 2 website again, i have the following to say:
- let's not get ahead of ourselves. the developers state that they will remodel everything from scratch. the game is not released yet, so that claim may become true. otherwise, the CC-BY-SA license will have to be applied to the released models, but only upon the release.
- some content presented on the website is derived work, so even that should be accompanied by attribution (and share-alike-ness) right now. such content is the picture of a dretch, although this is not an ultra big infringement.
-
What about sounds?
Even if they do get new sounds, i'm sure the community will complain about the new granger sound if it's significantly different.
-
after checking the Tremulous 2 website again, i have the following to say:
- let's not get ahead of ourselves. the developers state that they will remodel everything from scratch. the game is not released yet, so that claim may become true. otherwise, the CC-BY-SA license will have to be applied to the released models, but only upon the release.
- some content presented on the website is derived work, so even that should be accompanied by attribution (and share-alike-ness) right now. such content is the picture of a dretch, although this is not an ultra big infringement.
and what of the redone maps, like ACTS?
and how about the blurry line of duplicating something from scratch, and copying/ building upon the original?
let me ask it this way - if i modeled my own WH40k hive tyrant, and put it in a game i sold, would i be breaking copyright? it is my own "original" work, made from scratch.
-
And how about a cup of shut tf up?
Be glad somebody is making it, cos these developers do nothing for now and we were waiting for 1.2v 5 years, after 3 years there came 1.2 gpp and I was asking myself, are they serious? Now it's 2013 and shit happens except Tremulous 2 on UE3.
Go see their Marauder-making video, they made it from nothing, not from these models. It's their now. If you don't like it, too bad. :-\
-
And how about a cup of shut tf up?
Be glad somebody is making it, cos these developers do nothing for now and we were waiting for 1.2v 5 years, after 3 years there came 1.2 gpp and I was asking myself, are they serious? Now it's 2013 and shit happens except Tremulous 2 on UE3.
Go see their Marauder-making video, they made it from nothing, not from these models. It's their now. If you don't like it, too bad. :-\
you dont understand how copyright works.
i shall not be glad these assholes are trying to make a buck on the tremulous name. that is as wrong as the nexuiz debacle.
i'd rather see trem dead and gone than watch the mockery of a commercial version see release.
you also missed an important point - they made their models from nothing..... exactly duplicating the models in trem. if i made my own starcraft hydralisk model from scratch, would it be legal or ethical for me to distribute it in my own game (either FOS or commercial) claiming it was origional work?
or how about another example:
i could very legally make a robot that turns into a handgun and include it in any work i do. conversly, it would be illegal for me to create my own megatron and distribute as if it were mine.
this shit isnt just legally wrong, it is morally wrong. the fact that you are able to suspend your morals just because of a carrot on a stick (which, lets be honest, is never going to see the light of day - that website has seen pretty much no additions since whatshisface posted the first thread about it.) says quite a bit about your own character.
BTW, taking preorders for openoffice 2! only $299.99!
-
if i made my own starcraft hydralisk model from scratch, would it be legal or ethical for me to distribute it in my own game (either FOS or commercial) claiming it was origional work?
if you create the model based on non-copyrightable ideas (at least in some countries), such as the following design points:
- alien creature
- short snake-like body figure
- 2 small hands, but no other limbs
- the tail is semi-railroad-like
- greenish overall color
- moves like snakes
- is able to spray liquid from its head
then modeling the model will be original. however, if you create the model by looking a picture of such a pre-existing model -- copying details --, then that model will be derivative work.
-
if i made my own starcraft hydralisk model from scratch, would it be legal or ethical for me to distribute it in my own game (either FOS or commercial) claiming it was origional work?
if you create the model based on non-copyrightable ideas (at least in some countries), such as the following design points:
- alien creature
- short snake-like body figure
- 2 small hands, but no other limbs
- the tail is semi-railroad-like
- greenish overall color
- moves like snakes
- is able to spray liquid from its head
then modeling the model will be original. however, if you create the model by looking a picture of such a pre-existing model -- copying details --, then that model will be derivative work.
yes.
which brings us back to:
Under the following conditions:
Attribution — You must attribute the work in the manner specified by the author or licensor (but not in any way that suggests that they endorse you or your use of the work).
Share Alike — If you alter, transform, or build upon this work, you may distribute the resulting work only under the same or similar license to this one.
correct me if i am wrong, but posting images and videos counts as "publishing", yes?
and nowhere do they give proper attribution. they are already in violation.
the funny thing is i would be much more supportive of UV if they had went this route, and much more happy with this project if they would have taken the UV route and designed their own shit.
-
correct me if i am wrong, but posting images and videos counts as "publishing", yes?
and nowhere do they give proper attribution. they are already in violation.
yes.
-
ninja you dont understand, tremulous is free so developers cant get money for this oldie so it isnt their job, it isnt their first thing. AAA Games are not assholes, you may be if you can't figure it out. They offer PAYMENT for working on T2. That means it'll be made.
People you are talking here about licenses, what about you go sue them? Let's see who will win. Less talking, more doing if you are so sure they're fking copyright stuff up. Please, go on, I want it to see.
-
They offer PAYMENT for working on T2. That means it'll be made.
Despite the wording causing confusion in my mind, I don't think the project will last as long as Unvanquished as Unv has actually done more productive work with alpha updates to show the community they're progressing. So far all i've seen are assets in Trem2, and Rota even said they "cannot start until their project is accepted" or something like that. This means the project isn't even guaranteed it will start into the non-assets development..
-
ninja you dont understand, tremulous is free so developers cant get money for this oldie so it isnt their job, it isnt their first thing. AAA Games are not assholes, you may be if you can't figure it out. They offer PAYMENT for working on T2. That means it'll be made.
People you are talking here about licenses, what about you go sue them? Let's see who will win. Less talking, more doing if you are so sure they're fking copyright stuff up. Please, go on, I want it to see.
because every project that has been cancelled never paid for work, right?
do you see the flaw in your logic?
you are right, tremulous is free. AAA would do much better going the UV route, and USING NOTHING FROM TREMULOUS, NOT EVEN THE NAME (though in UV's case, they are adapting and modifying tremulous' source code into openwoolf, and building on top of it) using tremulous' free and open sourced material to make a commercial project is wrong in my opinion, and makes those who attempt to do so assoles of the magnitude of those who took nexuiz commercial. and how that turned out is quite publicly visible.
as for lawsuits, i could not sue even if i wanted to. i am not a copyright holder in this matter. this does not mean that i cannot call plagiarizing assholes out on their copyright violation.
lets go over it one more time, in tl;DR format.
using original assets and name = good
using work derivative of assets in trem without proper attribution, and tremulous name = bad
tthey could do a 1:1 duplication of the gameplay, provided it is in a properly licensed engine, with their own code. that is good.
-
ninja you dont understand, tremulous is free so developers cant get money for this oldie so it isnt their job, it isnt their first thing. AAA Games are not assholes, you may be if you can't figure it out. They offer PAYMENT for working on T2. That means it'll be made.
People you are talking here about licenses, what about you go sue them? Let's see who will win. Less talking, more doing if you are so sure they're fking copyright stuff up. Please, go on, I want it to see.
because every project that has been cancelled never paid for work, right?
do you see the flaw in your logic?
you are right, tremulous is free. AAA would do much better going the UV route, and USING NOTHING FROM TREMULOUS, NOT EVEN THE NAME (though in UV's case, they are adapting and modifying tremulous' source code into openwoolf, and building on top of it) using tremulous' free and open sourced material to make a commercial project is wrong in my opinion, and makes those who attempt to do so assoles of the magnitude of those who took nexuiz commercial. and how that turned out is quite publicly visible.
as for lawsuits, i could not sue even if i wanted to. i am not a copyright holder in this matter. this does not mean that i cannot call plagiarizing assholes out on their copyright violation.
lets go over it one more time, in tl;DR format.
using original assets and name = good
using work derivative of assets in trem without proper attribution, and tremulous name = bad
tthey could do a 1:1 duplication of the gameplay, provided it is in a properly licensed engine, with their own code. that is good.
I'm pretty sure I wrote already everything what you did now, you're repeating your opinions.
Rota is Trem fan so I'm sure that it will be better than 1.2 gpp, can't say if 1.1.
If you are not the owner of these laws then why do you bother? I don't even...
-
ninja you dont understand, tremulous is free so developers cant get money for this oldie so it isnt their job, it isnt their first thing. AAA Games are not assholes, you may be if you can't figure it out. They offer PAYMENT for working on T2. That means it'll be made.
People you are talking here about licenses, what about you go sue them? Let's see who will win. Less talking, more doing if you are so sure they're fking copyright stuff up. Please, go on, I want it to see.
because every project that has been cancelled never paid for work, right?
do you see the flaw in your logic?
you are right, tremulous is free. AAA would do much better going the UV route, and USING NOTHING FROM TREMULOUS, NOT EVEN THE NAME (though in UV's case, they are adapting and modifying tremulous' source code into openwoolf, and building on top of it) using tremulous' free and open sourced material to make a commercial project is wrong in my opinion, and makes those who attempt to do so assoles of the magnitude of those who took nexuiz commercial. and how that turned out is quite publicly visible.
as for lawsuits, i could not sue even if i wanted to. i am not a copyright holder in this matter. this does not mean that i cannot call plagiarizing assholes out on their copyright violation.
lets go over it one more time, in tl;DR format.
using original assets and name = good
using work derivative of assets in trem without proper attribution, and tremulous name = bad
tthey could do a 1:1 duplication of the gameplay, provided it is in a properly licensed engine, with their own code. that is good.
I'm pretty sure I wrote already everything what you did now, you're repeating your opinions.
Rota is Trem fan so I'm sure that it will be better than 1.2 gpp, can't say if 1.1.
If you are not the owner of these laws then why do you bother? I don't even...
no, you did not write any of that down, what you wrote was in direct opposition to what a wrote, see:
And how about a cup of shut tf up?
Be glad somebody is making it, cos these developers do nothing for now and we were waiting for 1.2v 5 years, after 3 years there came 1.2 gpp and I was asking myself, are they serious? Now it's 2013 and shit happens except Tremulous 2 on UE3.
Go see their Marauder-making video, they made it from nothing, not from these models. It's their now. If you don't like it, too bad. :-\
i dont care if rota is a trem fan, that gives him no right to attempt to make money from the trem name and trem assets. he also made and/or maintains unlimeted build points, which inspires very little confidence with me.
laws are now owned by private citizens (or subjects if you live in some form of monarchy). even if i am not the rightsholder, this does nothing to restrict my ability to express my views on the matter, or state the obvious - that rota and his team are in violation of law.
you are going to have to work much harder to get me to support these plagiarizing assholes.
-
i dont care if rota is a trem fan, that gives him no right to attempt to make money from the trem name and trem assets.
the CC-BY-SA does -- provided that attribution statements are given.
-
i dont care if rota is a trem fan, that gives him no right to attempt to make money from the trem name and trem assets.
the CC-BY-SA does -- provided that attribution statements are given.
yes, provided that. which, at this point in time is not provided.
so, at this point in time, my point stands.
-
The Share Alike aspect requires all derivatives of a work to be licensed under the same (or a compatible) license as the original. Thus, if a person were to use parts of a BY-SA movie to create a new short film that new short film would also need to be licensed as BY-SA. The advantage of this license is that future users are not able to add new restrictions to a derivative of your work; their derivatives must be licensed the same way. This is in contrast to the Attribution-only license from CC where a derivative could be released under full copyright restrictions (All Rights Reserved).
I dont care if they remodel everything. If they look like the originals, they are derivative work. Thus, CC-SA license applies Note that it is an ambiguous license; no good for commercial projects.
He could follow a path like Nexuiz Console. But he doesn't own the tremulous title.
I checked the moddb page and still nothing new.
-
i dont care if rota is a trem fan, that gives him no right to attempt to make money from the trem name and trem assets.
the CC-BY-SA does -- provided that attribution statements are given.
yes, provided that. which, at this point in time is not provided.
so, at this point in time, my point stands.
Similar isn't same, please go talk to rota if you have problem with him and his company, why don't you go right now?
-
CC-SA [...] is an ambiguous license; no good for commercial projects.
ORLY. i can legally make money by selling CC-SA, or even CC-BY-SA products. just like that quadregen d00d did/does.
Similar isn't same
similar can, however, be derived.
-
Similar isn't same, please go talk to rota if you have problem with him and his company, why don't you go right now?
i dont have to talk to rota, as this will very likely fade away with no comment. he's free to see all of this discussion if he ever logs on here. furthermore, it is not my responsibility to inform him he is in violation of copyright. it is a developers own responsibility to make sure no copyright is violated in his work, unless he is well off enough to get a (team of) lawyer(s).
as for the first part of your post.... have you just been ignoring the bulk of this thread? last post you said "i posted everything you just said", yet here you are posting directly in opposition to that very sentiment. kind of like that quote of yours i threw at you.
-
nless he is well off enough to get a (team of) lawyer(s).
Now that you said it, I don't think Tremulous is any match for court anyway, I mean, who the hell's going to pay for lawyers to support ourselves? Despite this game is dying anyway... It's a one-sided argument in my opinion...
-
nless he is well off enough to get a (team of) lawyer(s).
Now that you said it, I don't think Tremulous is any match for court anyway, I mean, who the hell's going to pay for lawyers to support ourselves? Despite this game is dying anyway... It's a one-sided argument in my opinion...
in a "commercial" game, such is not an option. this is why the big publishers keep such large teams of lawyers. their primary function is to ensure the company does not publish a legal cock up waiting to happen, like this.
-
That reminds me... There was a case several years ago about one company trying to sue the other one... Instead of solving via court, they decided to have a 20 minute duel of their best Quake 3 players in a game of quake 3 arena... (BTW It didn't show the results...) And i guess that's the easiest way to solve this problem, if it ever comes up.
-
That reminds me... There was a case several years ago about one company trying to sue the other one... Instead of solving via court, they decided to have a 20 minute duel of their best Quake 3 players in a game of quake 3 arena... (BTW It didn't show the results...) And i guess that's the easiest way to solve this problem, if it ever comes up.
You (http://notch.tumblr.com/post/9038258448/hey-bethesda-lets-settle-this) are (http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2011/08/17/notch-says-settle-scrolls-dispute-via-quake-3/) silly (http://www.g4tv.com/thefeed/blog/post/715639/notch-vs-bethesda-quake-3-challenge-was-a-poor-choice/).
-
That reminds me... There was a case several years ago about one company trying to sue the other one... Instead of solving via court, they decided to have a 20 minute duel of their best Quake 3 players in a game of quake 3 arena... (BTW It didn't show the results...) And i guess that's the easiest way to solve this problem, if it ever comes up.
You (http://notch.tumblr.com/post/9038258448/hey-bethesda-lets-settle-this) are (http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2011/08/17/notch-says-settle-scrolls-dispute-via-quake-3/) silly (http://www.g4tv.com/thefeed/blog/post/715639/notch-vs-bethesda-quake-3-challenge-was-a-poor-choice/).
lol, publicity stunt.
also, wow did bethesda turn into assholes.
-
FWIW they asked if they could use the name and I said no. I haven't heard anything since.
-
FWIW they asked if they could use the name and I said no. I haven't heard anything since.
good man.
would it be to forward of me to ask why you said no?
-
> I contacting you because you are author of the Tremulous
> game. Me and many others love that game very much, but sadly
> game still losing players and will die soon.
It is inevitable that something as old as Tremulous will wane in
popularity somewhat.
> That is reason, why our independent team did decision that
> we will completely recreate this game and will add many new
> features.
Completely recreating Tremulous from scratch is an unrealistically large
quantity of work if you're looking at achieving contemporary standards,
unless you can afford to throw a lot of talented professionals at it.
UE3 will of course give you a step up, but don't over-estimate how much
using an existing engine actually gets you in practice.
> Our goal is to achieve same atmosphere and
> gameplay. Because of that we choosed name Tremulous 2 for
> this game. I want to ask you, if you have any problem with
> that, or no.
I would want you to use a different name. From your point of view you
should want to create and name something that can stand on its own feet
without relying on the legacy of another aging game. In many ways this
is how Tremulous came about. Many of its developers were fans of the
Quake 2 mod Gloom. Tremulous is fairly heavily inspired by its game-play.
> We are not some fans developers whose will
> break apart after month. We will spend all time and money
> for developing this game - I was quit my job already.
That's a huge risk to take; good luck. Please find a different name though.
> I can promise some gifts for you like author (plushy
> Granger, game in special paper box etc.).
To be honest, if you were to successfully profit from the existing
Tremulous intellectual property I think that we would expect to be
hugely more recompensed that a few soft toys etc. A formal licensing
agreement would obviously be required.
-
A formal licensing agreement would obviously be required.
ie., GPLv2+ and CC-BY-SA.
-
thank you timbo, that was actually just slightly more detail than i really needed, but i truly appreciate your openness. many devs would not have responded at all to my request, let alone copypaste their private communications
A formal licensing agreement would obviously be required.
ie., GPLv2+ and CC-BY-SA.
but, but if they did that..... anyone who buys their game can freely distribute it, and they would make no money!
-
> I can promise some gifts for you like author (plushy
> Granger, game in special paper box etc.).
:o
-
> I can promise some gifts for you like author (plushy
> Granger, game in special paper box etc.).
:o
I'm sold.
-
Ye! The whole point of your arrogant answering was about leaving tremulous to end his nice ages dying without players. Suit yourself.
-
Ye! The whole point of your arrogant answering was about leaving tremulous to end his nice ages dying without players. Suit yourself.
better that than to be "commercial".
again: see nexuiz.
-
Stop spamming. You will not get my money and hopefully others.
Trailer shows nothing. I'd call it a teaser but again it shows nothing.
As far as I can tell, They have spent more time on the graphics on that kickstarter page than the actual game.
However, they don't even have the name rights. People who paid for are wasting their money.
So far all I see is nothing more than a bunch of renders.
If I wanted a good commercial alien vs human game in a style similar to tremulous I would play Natural Selection 2.
Unvanquished is also a nice open source experiment. I wouldn't call it a game yet. But still it is more promising than Tremulous2.
-
Tesla Generator = a new building
-
You should all be glad that this amazing game will be remade into something even better. The developers of the original tremulous do nothing, they don't care about tremulous dying.
I'm sure T2 will be released and popular.
-
People who paid for are wasting their money.
i accidentally the.
Unvanquished is also a nice open source experiment. I wouldn't call it a game yet. But still it is more promising than Tremulous2.
both are toilet paper.
I'm sure T2 will be released
perhaps.
and popular.
i'll try to make sure that doesn't become true.
-
I don't even like the Unreal 3 engine. The muddy textures when you get close were apparent in the Unreal 3 demo that i played (didn't worry me much then), but i got turned off finally with Mirrors Edge.
It's probably the low quality textures + bump mapping. The Quake 3 engine has low quality textures as well but since it doesn't have bump mapping it isn't so jarring (for me at least).
-
@SirFrancisBacon: Yeah that stuff of UE3 engine was making me crazy@blacklight retribution, apb reloaded. Mirror's Edge however worked very well. Hope T2 will also, gl to T2 dev Team and bb to T1 dev Team. And ef off to ppl who want to leave this game dying with empty servers.
From beginning of this game I played and I'd rather let the whole game being rebuild than let it die so harshly. I guess you all want to do. Well anyway what if they'll rename the game? What then will you flame them for?
-
. Well anyway what if they'll rename the game? What then will you flame them for?
only what i have before, that assets be properly attributed.
i'll also point out the example of nexuiz from time to time.
-
new artwork revealed
-
new artwork revealed
can't find the like button... oh wait
-
To be honest, if you were to successfully profit from the existing
Tremulous intellectual property I think that we would expect to be
hugely more recompensed that a few soft toys etc. A formal licensing
agreement would obviously be required.
Hi,
first of all, I want to apologize, I did not recieved any reply from you/sourceforge and kharnov pointed me now here from irc.
Actually, we do not need to have Tremulous name. We wanted to name it Tremulous 2, because we want to create successor, not different game. That is all. This name will not bring success, money or anything else. On the contrary it can make Tremulous 1 unforgotten (not like forgotten Gloom and remembered Tremulous). This name bringing good things only to old Tremulous, we cannot even register this name as a trademark etc.
But can I ask what do you exactly mean by recompensation and licensing agreement?
I don't know if you will read this (hopefully someone notice you, I will send you pm here too).
-
To be honest, if you were to successfully profit from the existing
Tremulous intellectual property I think that we would expect to be
hugely more recompensed that a few soft toys etc. A formal licensing
agreement would obviously be required.
Hi,
first of all, I want to apologize, I did not recieved any reply from you/sourceforge and kharnov pointed me now here from irc.
Actually, we do not need to have Tremulous name. We wanted to name it Tremulous 2, because we want to create successor, not different game. That is all. This name will not bring success, money or anything else. On the contrary it can make Tremulous 1 unforgotten (not like forgotten Gloom and remembered Tremulous). This name bringing good things only to old Tremulous, we cannot even register this name as a trademark etc.
But can I ask what do you exactly mean by recompensation and licensing agreement?
I don't know if you will read this (hopefully someone notice you, I will send you pm here too).
if you want to make it a successor game, then make it free and open source.
otherwise, regardless of intention, it makes you out to look as if you are trying to cash in on tremulous' name and fanbase.
while i am not on the dev team, i would think it safe to assume "recompensation and licensing agreement" means $$$. such things typically include an upfront payment, and also a royalty for every unit sold.
-
many independent developers have contributed to the artwork ("assets") and source code of the game, including me. both are released under permissive, but unchangable licenses. commercial use is allowed, but all changes to the source code must be released, and attribution must be given to the artists -- this is not just appreciated, it is required. to use the content otherwise (ie., releasing it under a proprietary license), you are required to contact all contributors, asking them if they will grant you an exclusive license to the relevant artwork or source code. you will fail at this, because:
- you will fail to contact all contributors, as there are simply too many to contact, and there is no contact information available for many of them.
- you will not reach an agreement to an exclusive license with at least 1 person, me -- and i have contributed a considerable amount of source code, and furthermore, others have made changes on top of my source code; it is therefore practically impossible to spot my contributions, and it is just impossible to rip them out without ripping out all further code.
note: sending cash to the owners of the tremulous.net domain (to "the tyrants of tremulous.net"), or to any other group that decides to call itself darklegion development, has nothing to do with negotiating an exclusive license, no matter what someone tells you, and no matter what you think (you have to ask for a license from each individual developer, and no group represents all of them). however, everyone appreciates cash, even non-developers, and even completely irrelevant entities. it's just that you will fail to distribute cash appropriately, because:
- you will fail to find the bank account of all contributors, for (by now) obvious reasons.
- it is practically impossible to reason about the proportion of the cash deserved by any particular contributor. specifically, sending cash to the tyrants of tremulous.net is arguably one of the most misproportional donations you'll ever make.
-
/dev/humancontroller: yes, that is quite understandable. But don't worry I will not send any cash to anyone. I was talking about name only.
-
Actually, we do not need to have Tremulous name. We wanted to name it Tremulous 2, because we want to create successor, not different game. That is all. This name will not bring success, money or anything else. On the contrary it can make Tremulous 1 unforgotten (not like forgotten Gloom and remembered Tremulous). This name bringing good things only to old Tremulous, we cannot even register this name as a trademark etc.
But can I ask what do you exactly mean by recompensation and licensing agreement?
The copyright on Tremulous is owned by myself and others, meaning that if you wish to use the intellectual property outside of the terms under which it is released, you must seek authorisation from the copyright owners. Since "Tremulous 2" is a commercial project, you are presumably not wanting to adhere to said licensing terms and must contact all copyright owners to gain their permission. You contacted me in November and I declined so that should be the end of it. By all means you are free to make a game similar to Tremulous under whatever terms you see fit, but if you make a game that is Tremulous you must respect the license under which it was released and the wishes of the copyright owners.
When I mentioned being recompensed and a licensing agreement I was talking hypothetically. My point was simply that if somebody is going to profit from my (and others') work, I expect to receive some of that profit beyond the token gesture that you appeared to be offering in your email. This is an irrelevance however since permission has not been given for the project to go forward, so no such profit will exist.
I hope this clears things up.
-
Timbo: I see. I like to know also your opinion on these things:
if somebody is going to profit from my (and others') work, I expect to receive some of that profit
Thanks to current license anyone can sell really your work (not something created from scratch by someone else) without any profit for you. That is ok? Why?
Another thing is name "Tremulous". You did not guarded it by trademark but you demanding rights to it. When do you think someone else can use this name again? After year, when servers will be empty? After 5 years when master server will be offline and tremulous.net domain will expire? After 50 years because ...? Never? Trademark have this clearly solved "live/dead".
Thanks for reply.
-
Basically rota, you will save yourself a huge headache down the line, if you just change the name and change the alien models to be less identical to trem models.
It wont change anything about the game you want to make, but it'll keep everyone from whining. Just do it, it isn't that hard to rebrand this early on, and seeing as not many models have been made, changing the aliens wont be difficult either. There is no reason to be so stubborn about keeping the same name. Like I said above, it will complicate things needlessly if you keep things the same as they are now. Just do the small amount of work to change things, and everyones happy.
Also on a side note, deciding to do a kickstarter was ill advised. Trem has never had that large of a community, let alone in recent months. Theres no way you could possibly get anywhere near your target, with the community being the size that it is.
-
Thanks to current license anyone can sell really your work (not something created from scratch by someone else) without any profit for you. That is ok? Why?
The fact that it can be sold doesn't mean it is sold. Why would anyone buy it when they can download it for nothing?
Another thing is name "Tremulous". You did not guarded it by trademark but you demanding rights to it. When do you think someone else can use this name again? After year, when servers will be empty? After 5 years when master server will be offline and tremulous.net domain will expire? After 50 years because ...? Never? Trademark have this clearly solved "live/dead".
I think you're mixing up copyright (http://cs.wikipedia.org/wiki/Autorsk%C3%A9_pr%C3%A1vo) and trademark (http://cs.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ochrann%C3%A1_zn%C3%A1mka) law. It's highly unlikely that a dictionary word like tremulous could be trademarked in the first place, not that I would even bother trying. I'm asserting the copyright which anyone who makes a creative work automatically gets (at least in most countries). The copyright covers the entire game content, not just the name.
As I said before, you have every right to make whatever game you like, under whatever terms you like, but it cannot be Tremulous. If you want to make something that is Tremulous, you must abide by the licenses under which it was released.
-
change the alien models to be less identical to trem models.
Who will judge, if granger is still granger or already something else?
It wont change anything about the game you want to make, but it'll keep everyone from whining. ... Just do the small amount of work to change things, and everyones happy.
You really think so? Ask yourself, why players whining (not developers).
Also on a side note, deciding to do a kickstarter was ill advised. Trem has never had that large of a community, let alone in recent months. Theres no way you could possibly get anywhere near your target, with the community being the size that it is.
Ahh, you thinking that we using Tremulous name because of Kickstarter...
-
Another thing is name "Tremulous". You did not guarded it by trademark but you demanding rights to it.
I am fairly certain that in the limited context where the word "tremulous" unambiguously refers to this game, it is covered by a common law trademark, where it exists, even despite lack of the ™ symbol. E.g., tremulus (http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1227949612/tremulus-a-storytelling-game-of-lovecraftian-horro) would be fine (even if it were spelled correctly) because it is unlikely to be confused with this game and trademark scope is limited. However, "Tremulous 2" exactly falls within the scope of the hypothetical common law mark.
In most jurisdictions, common law marks must be registered in order to be enforced but then must be enforced in order to be maintained. In practice, owning registered marks is expensive.
It's highly unlikely that a dictionary word like tremulous could be trademarked in the first place
It happens all the time. The thing is that the trademark has a limited scope, so using a dictionary word for its intended meaning is not covered by any marks. E.g., apples can never infringe Apple marks (even if they look exactly like the Apple logo), nor can windows infringe Microsoft marks, nor can the sun, oracles, java (or Java (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Java)) infringe Oracle marks.
-
Thanks to current license anyone can sell really your work (not something created from scratch by someone else) without any profit for you. That is ok? Why?
The fact that it can be sold doesn't mean it is sold. Why would anyone buy it when they can download it for nothing?
There already was some examples on Tesco and Apple store. But that does not matter, it is allowed to earn money on it.
I think you're mixing up copyright (http://cs.wikipedia.org/wiki/Autorsk%C3%A9_pr%C3%A1vo) and trademark (http://cs.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ochrann%C3%A1_zn%C3%A1mka) law. It's highly unlikely that a dictionary word like tremulous could be trademarked in the first place, not that I would even bother trying. I'm asserting the copyright which anyone who makes a creative work automatically gets (at least in most countries). The copyright covers the entire game content, not just the name.
I don't mixing it.
Name can be trademarked - it is not.
Game content is copyrighted automatically - it is.
Shape of aliens or game technics can be patented - it is not.
We do not breaking trademark (there is no any), copyright (we do not using anything exactly from the game), patent (there is no any).
As I said before, you have every right to make whatever game you like, under whatever terms you like, but it cannot be Tremulous. If you want to make something that is Tremulous, you must abide by the licenses under which it was released.
That is true. It can't be your game, we cannot use your code, assets, sounds (btw, did you already solved your copyright infringement of sounds?)... But we can use your name, and your game technics.
It is similar as name of my server "R Unlimited CZ". Some time ago someone started server with a name "R Unlimited US" with our color design. And I? I was glad, that someone like our server so much so he make own server with same name for US playerbase.
Anyway, I will make thread on our forum about suggestions for new name for our game and we will see. Probably it will be best.
-
stuff
rota, you need to change everything that is a "built from scratch high res trem 1 model". excepting the possibility that you actually correctly attribute them. considering you did not on your website, i seriously doubt you have/will. it does not matter if you built these models from scratch. they basically look identical, and that violates copyright. again, excepting the possibility that you actually properly attribute the authors, the CC license trem's assets are released under is quite permissible. and like a said before, a blanket credit to "the makers of tremulous 1" does not cut it.
copying a server name/color is NOTHING AT ALL like breaking copyright.
im taking it from the kickstarter that you dont actually have a publisher? im pretty sure if you did their legal department would explain to you what a Very Bad Idea a commercial "tremulous 2" is. if it were as easy as you are suggesting, why has no ailing developer tried their hand at it? trem isnt unknown.... it won awards and such.
and again, look at the example of nexuiz. and with nexuiz, basically ALL they took was the name. if you did actually make and release a commercial "tremulous 2" you would cause a huge explosion of hate for everything tremulous.
if you want to make a commercial aliens vs humans deathmatch game with building, great, more power to you. just leave the trem name and assets out of it, and do your own development.
edit:
There already was some examples on Tesco and Apple store. But that does not matter, it is allowed to earn money on it.
im pretty sure that violated the license the q3 was released under. i am almost positive that "free and open source" only applies to non-commercial works using the q3 engine. especially considering iD still sells commercial q3 licenses.
-
Rota i'm not trying to be annoying just for the sake of being annoying. I want to see your project come to fruition. Stop acting as if were all on a vendetta to kill your game because I at least, am not.
The facts are:
1.) The copyright holders (trem devs) have a problem with you using their name.
2.) They have expressly told you that they don't want you to use it. Which is well within their rights.
3.) In the future they could quite easily take legal action against you. And they would win.
So why don't you just change the damn name? It will change nothing for you. All it means is a tiny bit of extra work. You are being very childish.
Just to say again, I am looking forward to your game rota, I just wish you would listen. You are clearly in the wrong here.
-
RAKninja-Decepticon, amz181: well, you have different opinions than me, that is ok. But you can suggest a new name in our forum.
copying a server name/color is NOTHING AT ALL like breaking copyright.
Exactly! Same as the name "Tremulous".
There already was some examples on Tesco and Apple store. But that does not matter, it is allowed to earn money on it.
im pretty sure that violated the license the q3 was released under. i am almost positive that "free and open source" only applies to non-commercial works using the q3 engine. especially considering iD still sells commercial q3 licenses.
Again: GPL allows selling it. You can download Tremulous, burn it on CD and sell it for $1000. Right now. You do not need to ask anyone, you do not need to pay anything to anyone. Question is, if you can be punished for that illegal sounds inside.
why has no ailing developer tried their hand at it? trem isnt unknown.... it won awards and such.
Sadly, in global is unknown.
if you did actually make and release a commercial "tremulous 2" you would cause a huge explosion of hate for everything tremulous.
Why do you think? And who will hate it?
-
I'll try this one last time
copying a server name/color is NOTHING AT ALL like breaking copyright.
Exactly! Same as the name "Tremulous".
You asked to use the name Tremulous and were asked not to relatively nicely. But you persist. I pointed out that Tremulous is a common law trademark, so the possibility of legally compelling you to change the name exists. (But that is expensive for us and you. You should want to avoid that as much as we do.)
Again: GPL allows selling it. You can download Tremulous, burn it on CD and sell it for $1000. Right now. You do not need to ask anyone, you do not need to pay anything to anyone.
The GPL specifies other terms you have to comply with. If you don't comply with all of the terms of the GPL, none of the terms (including your ability to distribute in any manner) apply to you, making any use is unlicensed.
Question is, if you can be punished for that illegal sounds inside.
That is entirely unrelated and irrelevant to this topic, but fine: it is my (admittedly non-expert) opinion that none of the unlicensed sounds have to be changed because they fall into one or more of: de minimis use; "fair use" or equivalent, where it applies; or uncopyrightable material. Replacing the sounds makes those arguments moot.
The same arguments do not apply to your use.
-
Rotacack: u actually take this serious? This looks like a e-beggar fraud from a greedy monkey fart who wants to make some extra ca$h. Go to the kickstarter site and watch the videos about concepts. And what we have here, for a second one can see a screen of the desktop. It shows a file named "cinema_serial.txt".U use cinema for ur money begg videos? U really steal software to make a comercial game? CZ-style?
evidence: http://37.114.60.211/serious_developmentbyaaagameslol.jpg
original source: http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=rZD0AGx5Jw4
I feel sorry for all tremplayers who actually give u money for this scam.
-
wtf is up with kharnov's self-embarrassing posts disappearing?
-
Undeference has been deleting my posts lately. Perhaps he doesn't approve of my interpretation of IANAL.
-
i take credit for half of them disappearing. :police:
-
Your post deserved deletion for ingeminating the "joke" everyone got, but you adduce calumniations
your face beat me to it
-
yalt: You're just mad, because you was punished for your "nigger" nick on our server. From that moment you acting like a angry baby, repeatedly deconning, spamming on forum and now this.
I will not explain you how Kickstarter money works, what "serial" mean in czech language or even what work this artist actually doing (2D).
Deal with it.
-
copying a server name/color is NOTHING AT ALL like breaking copyright.
Exactly! Same as the name "Tremulous".
Why do you think? And who will hate it?
1. Using your own text as proof to support your statement... hmm...
Btw, I can gather a list of those who will hate T2. I don't hate T2, but I hate the idea of T2 making money off a project which was initially open source and free.
-
I will not explain [...] what "serial" mean in czech language
har, har. no need, matey. we understand.
or even what work this artist actually doing
no need. we understand.
Deal with it.
we will. we shall pillage yer relaxed effort, through which ye plan to make undeserved monies.
-
Nope i act. dont care about ur lame server. Its more like i feel sorry about all player who pay for ur scam. btw u reached 2% at kickstarter? :D
*and now they are censoring questions about this at youtube and their forums. Scared to tell the truth...
-
copying a server name/color is NOTHING AT ALL like breaking copyright.
Exactly! Same as the name "Tremulous".
Why do you think? And who will hate it?
1. Using your own text as proof to support your statement... hmm...
Btw, I can gather a list of those who will hate T2. I don't hate T2, but I hate the idea of T2 making money off a project which was initially open source and free.
go back and read, the innermost quote is my words. rota fucked a multiquote up, and so far no one has bothered correcting the mistake.
-
This seems like a official channel for communication with Tremulous developers, so I have public personal statement right here:
Tim Angus reported our Kickstarter project "Tremulous 2" for copyright infringement and our project was paused until it will be solved. It caused that I lost all positive feeling from this game and I started to hate it. Now I don't even want to use this name "Tremulous" or any similar name that can remind me this ugly behavior. Actually there is only one last thing that I still love and that is Granger. On the other hand, new name will release our hand to make more changes to design and it will allow to name it as our original game without "thanks" to these developers.
I hope that we will find new name very soon and we will be finally disconnected from this "Tremulous" forever. I will make changes on our site as soon possible.
Personally, now I would like to shutdown my Tremulous 1 servers and delete everything what I did for this game. But I promised to our players that I will keep server up until there someone will play - that is reason, why I leave it active.
And last thing, I am peacefull person, but when someone want to touch something what I created with my money, then I am not so peacefull. So, if you (Tim) want to make plaint against me, be sure, that I will do same against you and your whole team for your illegal sounds - you know they are illegal, but you still distributing it. And it is not any work for me. Don't know how in UK but here are various agency, that seeking exactly situations like this (when someone using unlicensed copied images/sounds) even when original author does not care. I am not proud on this, but that is situation.
End of my personal statement.
Feel free to make fun from my english and I hope that your game will die soon, according to your wish.
Bye.
and now they are censoring questions about this at youtube and their forums. Scared to tell the truth...
You probably used bad language and your "questions" was censored by youtube. Or you created third account on R Unlimited CZ forum (previous two are banned) and some moderator deleted your spam. I did not deleted anything on youtube nor t2 forum and at this time I am the only one, who can delete there something.
-
This seems like a official channel for communication with Tremulous developers, so I have public personal statement right here:
Tim Angus reported our Kickstarter project "Tremulous 2" for copyright infringement and our project was paused until it will be solved. It caused that I lost all positive feeling from this game and I started to hate it. Now I don't even want to use this name "Tremulous" or any similar name that can remind me this ugly behavior. Actually there is only one last thing that I still love and that is Granger. On the other hand, new name will release our hand to make more changes to design and it will allow to name it as our original game without "thanks" to these developers.
I hope that we will find new name very soon and we will be finally disconnected from this "Tremulous" forever. I will make changes on our site as soon possible.
Personally, now I would like to shutdown my Tremulous 1 servers and delete everything what I did for this game. But I promised to our players that I will keep server up until there someone will play - that is reason, why I leave it active.
And last thing, I am peacefull person, but when someone want to touch something what I created with my money, then I am not so peacefull. So, if you (Tim) want to make plaint against me, be sure, that I will do same against you and your whole team for your illegal sounds - you know they are illegal, but you still distributing it. And it is not any work for me. Don't know how in UK but here are various agency, that seeking exactly situations like this (when someone using unlicensed copied images/sounds) even when original author does not care. I am not proud on this, but that is situation.
End of my personal statement.
Feel free to make fun from my english and I hope that your game will die soon, according to your wish.
Bye.
and now they are censoring questions about this at youtube and their forums. Scared to tell the truth...
You probably used bad language and your "questions" was censored by youtube. Or you created third account on R Unlimited CZ forum (previous two are banned) and some moderator deleted your spam. I did not deleted anything on youtube nor t2 forum and at this time I am the only one, who can delete there something.
they ASKED you NICELY to not use the tremulous name. you ignored them. every developer that has commented thus far has been against your use of the name. do you understand?
aside from the name, i hope you do your own concept and design work now. you've been using assets not properly attributed for a while now, and you have studiously ignored this every time i have brought it up.
i encourage you to go to each copyright holder of the infringing sounds and report them.im fairly sure most, if not all, of them will not try to claim copyright on any of them, fair use being the grey area that it is, and court costs cutting into profits. but please, do try.
in closing, do you think us stupid? YOUTUBE DOES NOT MODERATE THE COMMENTS ON VIDEOS. if a comment is deleted, there are two possibilities. 1 - the commenter deleted his own comment. if this happens there will be a "blank" comment reading "comment deleted, author withheld". 2 the UPLOADER deleted the comment, in which case, no record of the comment exists in the comment section. if anyone was "censoring" because of "bad language" it would be you. which i find hilarious, because as a non-native speaker, you have know way of knowing which english idioms are made of "bad language" but have a positive meaning.
-
Since now Tremulous 2 will not use Tremulous as name, I guess that's ok for you, fame may now come with another name. Anyway I guess it will be more original than Tremulous since that name with gameplay didn't really make sense for me since 2006. Anyway the biggest fun:
Tremulous 1.1: Illegal sounds, gonna call da hollywood
Tremulous 1.2gpp: Illegal sounds, gonna call da hollywood babe!
Tremulous "2": SIMILAR MODELS. OH WAIT YOU GONNA CALL DADDY?
just ridiculous devs. Keep deleting posts, truth will come anyways.
war is war, you called for copyright issues so copyright from hollywood or wherever you got them from will be in "your face". and nah not that forum member.
Do not flame T2 devs, and Rotacak. Flame your beloved lazy developers who released 1.2 gpp after 4/5 years? Noone plays it, R Unlimited CZ is the only server that keeps it on its feet. I'd be ashamed. You call it your game but you do nothing.
YOU DELETE THIS POST, YOU DELETE THE RIGHT OF MINE FOR FREEDOM OF MY OPINIONS.
Can I just report the whole Dev team for copyright issues? Oh yes I can. Why shouldn't I do it right now I don't know, I just feel I want to read their reactions and keep telling that T2 violates their copyright.
-
Totally agree with Loki
-
Looks like it's time to sit back and enjoy the fireworks. 8)
-
I've totally lost any spare respect there was before for the devs. Not only they let the original trem die and they don't give a single **** about it, but they also try to destroy trem 2, so we can't have a new living trem. You are just a bunch of stupid people.
-
Looks like it's time to sit back and enjoy the fireworks. 8)
how i feel: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ASj81daun5Q
-
Lots of bitter and angry in this thread.
Please rename your shitty wannabee project before it davalues my wonderful memories of Tremulous. Thanks.
-
Lots of bitter and angry in this thread.
Please rename your shitty wannabee project before it davalues my wonderful memories of Tremulous. Thanks.
Those memories will not remain for long.
-
Do not flame T2 devs, and Rotacak. Flame your beloved lazy developers who released 1.2 gpp after 4/5 years? Noone plays it, R Unlimited CZ is the only server that keeps it on its feet. I'd be ashamed. You call it your game but you do nothing.
YOU DELETE THIS POST, YOU DELETE THE RIGHT OF MINE FOR FREEDOM OF MY OPINIONS.
Can I just report the whole Dev team for copyright issues? Oh yes I can. Why shouldn't I do it right now I don't know, I just feel I want to read their reactions and keep telling that T2 violates their copyright.
ive been not playing rather than play there, and that was before i knew rota ran the server. to be honest, i'd love for him to shut down, this way people actually come back to servers that dont suck and have less shitmaps in rotation.
if i were a mod, i'd delete your post just because of your allcaps line. this is not a democracy here, and believe it or not, you have no rights here. you are a guest in a house someone else is paying for, to use an analogy.
dont threaten. timbo didnt. fucking do it. report the copyright violations to the copyright holders. grow some balls and do it. dont cry like a fucking baby, man up and make the reports. i dont think rota or any of the lackeys he sent in to sooth his inflamed ego have the backbone to actually make any such reports. let alone even know who owns the copyright of the sounds in question.
-
Lots of bitter and angry in this thread.
Please rename your shitty wannabee project before it davalues my wonderful memories of Tremulous. Thanks.
Those memories will not remain for long.
Oh do explain, I'm sure this will be entertaining.
-
The sounds come from BBC Sound Library. It is a royalty free library.
If Dolby owned a license they are legal, otherwise illegal. However we can't find and ask him.
Even if the sounds were used illegally, no one cares. Report it if you want, I doubt anything will happen.
Companies are hesitant to sue open source projects: a) they won't get back huge amounts of money, b) they don't want to look bad.
I don't like trem devs a lot. But they took proper action to remove those sounds before any notice from the owners.
On the other hand, rotacak (who was/is not a developer, just a server owner) used the name Tremulous (which is the name of a free game) without the allowance of any trem devs. IMO this is why people objected to the name.
He also needs to use different looking models if he wants to use them under a license other than CC-BY-SA. If they look too similar they might be considered derivative work.
-
if a comment is deleted, there are two possibilities. 1 - the commenter deleted his own comment. if this happens there will be a "blank" comment reading "comment deleted, author withheld". 2 the UPLOADER deleted the comment, in which case, no record of the comment exists in the comment section. if anyone was "censoring" because of "bad language" it would be you. which i find hilarious, because as a non-native speaker, you have know way of knowing which english idioms are made of "bad language" but have a positive meaning.
I have no idea how to delete my own comments or delete comments on videos that I upload... :/
-
This seems like a official channel for communication with Tremulous developers, so I have public personal statement right here:
Tim Angus reported our Kickstarter project "Tremulous 2" for copyright infringement and our project was paused until it will be solved. It caused that I lost all positive feeling from this game and I started to hate it. Now I don't even want to use this name "Tremulous" or any similar name that can remind me this ugly behavior. Actually there is only one last thing that I still love and that is Granger. On the other hand, new name will release our hand to make more changes to design and it will allow to name it as our original game without "thanks" to these developers.
I hope that we will find new name very soon and we will be finally disconnected from this "Tremulous" forever. I will make changes on our site as soon possible.
Personally, now I would like to shutdown my Tremulous 1 servers and delete everything what I did for this game. But I promised to our players that I will keep server up until there someone will play - that is reason, why I leave it active.
And last thing, I am peacefull person, but when someone want to touch something what I created with my money, then I am not so peacefull. So, if you (Tim) want to make plaint against me, be sure, that I will do same against you and your whole team for your illegal sounds - you know they are illegal, but you still distributing it. And it is not any work for me. Don't know how in UK but here are various agency, that seeking exactly situations like this (when someone using unlicensed copied images/sounds) even when original author does not care. I am not proud on this, but that is situation.
End of my personal statement.
Feel free to make fun from my english and I hope that your game will die soon, according to your wish.
Bye.
and now they are censoring questions about this at youtube and their forums. Scared to tell the truth...
You probably used bad language and your "questions" was censored by youtube. Or you created third account on R Unlimited CZ forum (previous two are banned) and some moderator deleted your spam. I did not deleted anything on youtube nor t2 forum and at this time I am the only one, who can delete there something.
Oh dear. What a whiny hypocrite you are.
P.S. Please shut down your servers, the vanilla GPP servers need players ;)
-
if a comment is deleted, there are two possibilities. 1 - the commenter deleted his own comment. if this happens there will be a "blank" comment reading "comment deleted, author withheld". 2 the UPLOADER deleted the comment, in which case, no record of the comment exists in the comment section. if anyone was "censoring" because of "bad language" it would be you. which i find hilarious, because as a non-native speaker, you have know way of knowing which english idioms are made of "bad language" but have a positive meaning.
I have no idea how to delete my own comments or delete comments on videos that I upload... :/
mouseover comment you made when logged in, , click the circle that encloses a downward pointing triangle in the upper left corner of the comment, click delete. on a video you own, it is the same deal, but with any comment.
He also needs to use different looking models if he wants to use them under a license other than CC-BY-SA. If they look too similar they might be considered derivative work.
he'd also have to properly attribute the author of each asset.
P.S. Please shut down your servers, the vanilla GPP servers need players ;)
amen.
-
Oh dear. What a whiny hypocrite you are.
P.S. Please shut down your servers, the vanilla GPP servers need players ;)
Seems legit, I'd like to see what would happen. Even that you do not play but you somehow still care about this oldie. Jog on.
-
When the time comes, Duck and Cover. Duck and Cover!
(http://chanarchive.org/content/89_p/1054227/1288774386793.jpg)
-
This seems like a official channel for communication with Tremulous developers, so I have public personal statement right here:
with some developers.
Tim Angus reported our Kickstarter project "Tremulous 2" for copyright infringement and our project was paused until it will be solved. It caused that I lost all positive feeling from this game and I started to hate it.
"positive feeling" in this case means the belief that you can easily steal the work of others. the developers have the right to receive proper attribution -- and complying with the CC-BY-SA is a very small thing to ask for.
make more changes to design and it will allow to name it as our original game without "thanks" to these developers.
adding a lot of changes to the design does not create an original work. the work will remain based forever.
I hope that we will find new name very soon
what is your stance towards using proper naming goals (http://tremulous.net/forum/index.php?topic=16456.0)?
And last thing, I am peacefull person, but when someone want to touch something what I created with my money, then I am not so peacefull.
ROFL ! you put money into ripping off free artwork? that must be hard to do; how did you manage to do that?
here are various agency, that seeking exactly situations like this (when someone using unlicensed copied images/sounds) even when original author does not care.
makes sense. often, the author does care, but would not spend precious energy, time or money to deal with minor copyright infringement issues.
-
And last thing, I am peacefull person, but when someone want to touch something what I created with my money, then I am not so peacefull.
ROFL ! you put money into ripping off free artwork? that must be hard to do; how did you manage to do that?
im more interested in how he's been surviving, when he "quit his job" months ago to work on this.
-
"You probably used bad language and your "questions" was censored by youtube. Or you created third account on R Unlimited CZ forum (previous two are banned) and some moderator deleted your spam. I did not deleted anything on youtube nor t2 forum and at this time I am the only one, who can delete there something."
-"questions" means that u read my comment cause you evaluate it and this means u lie about ur first sentence. I mean, IF you dont know what i wrote why did you use quote chars?
-On RCZ i had exact: 1 account, so again _lie_
"From that moment you acting like a angry baby, repeatedly deconning, ..."
-I never deconned on ur crap server
"Personally, now I would like to shutdown my Tremulous 1 servers"
-Please +gpp1.2
"Don't know how in UK but here are various agency, that seeking exactly situations like this (when someone using unlicensed copied images/sounds) even when original author does not care. I am not proud on this, but that is situation."
-First u should buy legal software copies and then open ur big greedy mouth and im not talking about udk. btw u know the czech city "hacker village"? Im sure u do Mr.ImNotProudOfThisCauseImACleanPlayer.
And why u need ur bros like Looki and NomadCZ (ofc a czech guy) to give u support? Ur not able to fight ur own wars urself? awwww.
(http://weknowmemes.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/11/obama-wins-reelection-memes.jpg)
-
(http://bfolder.ru/_ph/2/2/978582341.jpg)
-
mouseover comment you made when logged in, , click the circle that encloses a downward pointing triangle in the upper left corner of the comment, click delete. on a video you own, it is the same deal, but with any comment.
(http://)
-
mouseover comment you made when logged in, click the circle that encloses a downward pointing triangle in the upper left corner of the comment, click delete. on a video you own, it is the same deal, but with any comment.
there's a catch virus, you have to be logged in.
http://i263.photobucket.com/albums/ii132/rakninja/forum%20stuff/ownvid_zpsab6604e8.jpg
http://i263.photobucket.com/albums/ii132/rakninja/forum%20stuff/othervideo_zpsd131c1df.jpg
-
Since you people are more busy talking about Tremulous than playing Tremulous, I got you some more stuff to read: http://forum.tremulous2.com/index.php?topic=118.0
Behave yourself when visiting their forum.
-
Why did no one tell me there was fresh drama to be enjoyed?
-
It even has Lava involved. It's like the whole family is having a reunion again.
-
It even has Lava involved. It's like the whole family is having a reunion again.
That's only because the drama surrounding your Tremulous fork was just too sad for words.
The Tremulous2 drama is a bit different than that, since it has people who try hard to make people like Timbo look like a bad guy. Someone had to take a mild stand against it on the Tremulous2 forum.
-
Every Tremulous fork is surrounded by drama. It's sort of a fundamental component of the community. The real question is how long the fork survives afterwards. We're still very much alive and active, and we hope Rotacak succeeds in his efforts as well.
-
lol.
that thread is hilarious.
also, i am having a hard time deciding if rota is mistranslating, just stupid, or severely mentally handicapped. he was expecting a reply through sourceforge.... from an email? he thinks copying a server name is the same thing as what he attempted with the "tremulous 2" thing? he magically deletes posts without having seen them?
he also ignores it every time someone mentions how easy it is to come into compliance with CC-BY-SA, and wonders why he has not done so.
and sadly, only a few people seem to be aware of nexuis and what happened to it when a "commercial version" came out. good job on knowing, virus, i mean that seriously. i wish rota would look it up and see what happens when you try this kind of thing.
-
The situation with Nexuiz is completely different from Tremulous2, so it's best you stop comparing the two.
-
The situation with Nexuiz is completely different from Tremulous2, so it's best you stop comparing the two.
really? a FOSS game taken commercial with no connection to the people who developed the original. sounds pretty damn similar to me.
the major difference is that the rights to the name were not ambiguously held by a fluid group of developers. the two guys with the rights to the name sold it, against the wishes of... well, damn near everyone.
and note: the only similarities between the commercial game and the FOSS one is the name and the fact that the game is FPS. they made their own assets rather than deal with the rights hell that is trying to publish a commercial game with assets derived from assets published under FOSS licenses.
yes, there are differences in the situations, but these differences are in unimportant details. the heart of the matter is the same.
for further proof, look at the backlash at that old april fools joke about commercial trem.
-
why the fuck are you idiots still discussing the name? as if that were relatively important. it is not. it's just a fucking word that took no more than some thoughts to come up with. the assets are of most importance, as it took the designers and modelers many weeks to design, model, and package; and the assets are definitely known to have been infringed.
-
really? a FOSS game taken commercial with no connection to the people who developed the original. sounds pretty damn similar to me.
Except the people who originally started Nexuiz are also the people who worked with Illfonic on trying to get Nexuiz on consoles. This is not the case with the Tremulous2 situation.
why the fuck are you idiots still discussing the name? as if that were relatively important. it is not. it's just a fucking word that took no more than some thoughts to come up with. the assets are of most importance, as it took the designers and modelers many weeks to design, model, and package; and the assets are definitely known to have been infringed.
It's exactly your type of people that is detrimental to situations like this. I just want to have people making more good games, whereas you just want to see someone hang. The only thing that has taken place is that people think or assume there was infringement. Someone is still innocent until proven guilty in court. Yes, it sounds silly, but it seems such silly words are needed.
Take a hike.
-
Someone is still innocent until proven guilty in court.
Hypocrisy at its finest.
-
why the fuck are you idiots still discussing the name? as if that were relatively important. it is not. it's just a fucking word that took no more than some thoughts to come up with. the assets are of most importance, as it took the designers and modelers many weeks to design, model, and package; and the assets are definitely known to have been infringed.
ive brought it up many times, but no one, not even you, seems to notice.
really? a FOSS game taken commercial with no connection to the people who developed the original. sounds pretty damn similar to me.
Except the people who originally started Nexuiz are also the people who worked with Illfonic on trying to get Nexuiz on consoles. This is not the case with the Tremulous2 situation.
you mean the two guys that had rights to the name, and nothing else, who sold it? because the engine was by someone else, and the assets were created by a variety of people.
why the fuck are you idiots still discussing the name? as if that were relatively important. it is not. it's just a fucking word that took no more than some thoughts to come up with. the assets are of most importance, as it took the designers and modelers many weeks to design, model, and package; and the assets are definitely known to have been infringed.
It's exactly your type of people that is detrimental to situations like this. I just want to have people making more good games, whereas you just want to see someone hang. The only thing that has taken place is that people think or assume there was infringement. Someone is still innocent until proven guilty in court. Yes, it sounds silly, but it seems such silly words are needed.
Take a hike.
i think dev/hc wants to see good games too. i know i do. i cannot speak for him, but i know i would have these good games be original works, and not starting on the basis of someone else's hard work.
you also do not need a court to see facts. fact: rota has no claim to the tremulous name, or the assets from tremulous. fact: usage of the assets (or derivative works based on the assets) must include proper attribution. fact: proper attribution is not given. we know that for usage to not be in violation of the license, proper attribution must be given, and such attribution does not exist. it is safe to say - fact: rota and co. are infringing the copyright. there is no "thinking" or "assumption". this is cold hard fact.
when repeatedly asked by me in this very thread why rota does not do the oh so easy thing of providing proper attribution, no response has been made. rota seems to studiously ignore it every time i do.
all he needed to do to silence me, and also bring himself into compliance with the copyright, was provide proper attribution. so, why didnt he, and why did he ignore it every time it was brought up?
-
You mean the two guys that had rights to the name, and nothing else, who sold it? because the engine was by someone else, and the assets were created by a variety of people.
The guy who owns the name and the guy responsible for the engine are exactly two of the people who worked Nexuiz on consoles. LordHavoc, the engine maintainer, had agreements in place with Darkplaces contributors. The Nexuiz assets are of no importance, since none of them would be used for console Nexuiz. I know the untrained guard dogs like to spread a whole lot of bullshit about the Nexuiz situation, up to a point that even the most laid back people like LordHavoc get pissed off.
you also do not need a court to see facts.
So you don't need a court, but you do need the law? Way to go.
all he needed to do to silence me, and also bring himself into compliance with the copyright, was provide proper attribution.
I think Rota basically admitted that he made an error by not reaching proper agreement before launching the Kickstarter. You can hardly blame the guy for being blinded by love for Tremulous. You can however try to burn him down for it, which is certainly contraproductive for anyone who likes games like Tremulous. Before you point your finger at others, maybe it's wise to a take a look at http://tremulous.net/forum/index.php?topic=13257.0 ? Just saying...
Out of curiosity, what Tremulous assets are 'owned' by you?
-
-Nexuiz Backstory-/i]
That reminds me. I heard that someone's modding the PC edition of the new nexuiz into xonotic. Got a lot of laughs, but it might actually be done.
there's a catch virus, you have to be logged in.
I've always been logged in.
Somehow the button magically appeared though ???
Maybe it's the "new" layout (updated several months ago)
-
It's exactly your type of people that is detrimental to situations like this.
the situation is copyright infringement of free and open content. being detrimental to such situations is good.
I just want to have people making more good games, whereas you just want to see someone hang.
WRONG. you apparently want people making more good games via infringing content (not "just want to have people make more good games"), whereas i want people making more good games without infringing content.
The only thing that has taken place is that people think or assume there was infringement.
WRONG.1 derivative contents have been made, the pictures of which have been used on Tremulous 2's main website and forums. advertizements for a commercial project were already "broadcasted", and attribution has still not been given, and will likely not be given as recompensation.
Take a hike.
your muther.
1 i notice that a similar statement has already been given by RAK.
-
You mean the two guys that had rights to the name, and nothing else, who sold it? because the engine was by someone else, and the assets were created by a variety of people.
The guy who owns the name and the guy responsible for the engine are exactly two of the people who worked Nexuiz on consoles. LordHavoc, the engine maintainer, had agreements in place with Darkplaces contributors. The Nexuiz assets are of no importance, since none of them would be used for console Nexuiz. I know the untrained guard dogs like to spread a whole lot of bullshit about the Nexuiz situation, up to a point that even the most laid back people like LordHavoc get pissed off.
what does darkplaces have to do with the console nexuiz? it uses cryengine3..... not darkplaces. and that does nothing to change the massive backlash at everyone involved for the console version.
you also do not need a court to see facts.
So you don't need a court, but you do need the law? Way to go.
you made a claim that people were making assumptions. no assumptions were made. two and two were simply added together to make four. again i state that you do not need a court to see the fact that someone is in violation of copyright/trademark. if you care to dispute the factual-ness of the facts i have stated, please do. show me that rota and co. gave proper attribution, or that the CC-BY-SA does not require proper attribution.
all he needed to do to silence me, and also bring himself into compliance with the copyright, was provide proper attribution.
I think Rota basically admitted that he made an error by not reaching proper agreement before launching the Kickstarter. You can hardly blame the guy for being blinded by love for Tremulous. You can however try to burn him down for it, which is certainly contraproductive for anyone who likes games like Tremulous. Before you point your finger at others, maybe it's wise to a take a look at http://tremulous.net/forum/index.php?topic=13257.0 ? Just saying...
rota admitted he made an error? where? all ive seen him do is blame everyone that told him "no". both here and in his own forum, which you so kindly linked. yes, i CAN blame the guy. he asked for permission, was denied, and claims he never got a response.... because he was checking sourceforge and not his email. as to trem's sound issues, perhaps you should look up what de minimis means in the context of fair use in copyright. or you could find out if wassisface had a license for the bbc sound library. if you wanted to call me out on hypocrisy, however, you should have asked about my youtube videos. i violate copyright much more blatantly than tremulous does.
Out of curiosity, what Tremulous assets are 'owned' by you?
as i have stated repeatedly, i hold no claim to any asset of tremulous. so what? i do not want tremulous to be another nexuiz, which is surely what would happen if rota got his way and by some miricle actually released "tremulous 2" as a commercial game. if the nexuiz example does not tickle your fancy, what about e old april fool's joke? i brought that up two posts ago, and you either missed or ignored it.
1 i notice that a similar statement has already been given by RAK.
thanks for noticing. it makes my heart glad to see that not everyone active in the discussion has a selective reading memory.
-
I was typing a nice and fully quoted reply to both of you, but while previewing it, I realized it's just not the way to handle this situation. I will try it differently, bear with me.
For all I care, everybody copies and infringes on everybodies copyrights, licences and what not as much as possible, as long as they do not charge money for it. This is why I don't care about Tremulous2 possibly infringing on Tremulous' copyrights until Rotacak launched the Kickstarter campaign before reaching an agreement with darklegion. This is the error Rotacak as much as admitted.
While you may be factually right, that hardly means you are morally right. And this morality is why this situation is a pretty hurtful thing altogether. The Tremulous Copyright Gestapo hates on the Tremulous2 Copyright Terrorists and of course they hate you back just as much, while in the end everybody is left with nothing but a very sour taste in his or her mouth, except of course for the few people who actually get happy from an outcome like this.
Are you happy with the outcome of this situation?
-
what does darkplaces have to do with the console nexuiz?
Stop comparing the Nexuiz situation to the Tremulous2 situation if you don't know what took place with the Nexuiz situation.
-
I was typing a nice and fully quoted reply to both of you, but while previewing it, I realized it's just not the way to handle this situation. I will try it differently, bear with me.
For all I care, everybody copies and infringes on everybodies copyrights, licences and what not as much as possible, as long as they do not charge money for it. This is why I don't care about Tremulous2 possibly infringing on Tremulous' copyrights until Rotacak launched the Kickstarter campaign before reaching an agreement with darklegion. This is the error Rotacak as much as admitted.
While you may be factually right, that hardly means you are morally right. And this morality is why this situation is a pretty hurtful thing altogether. The Tremulous Copyright Gestapo hates on the Tremulous2 Copyright Terrorists and of course they hate you back just as much, while in the end everybody is left with nothing but a very sour taste in his or her mouth, except of course for the few people who actually get happy from an outcome like this.
Are you happy with the outcome of this situation?
you are incorrect. i have no sour taste. i have FOSS tremulous, unmarred by a "commercial sequel" made by people who have no rights to do so. i get to enjoy the fact that a massive backlash at all things tremulous was averted.
what does darkplaces have to do with the console nexuiz?
Stop comparing the Nexuiz situation to the Tremulous2 situation if you don't know what took place with the Nexuiz situation.
no. (http://www.alientrap.org/forum_old/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=6043)
i may be ignorant of specifics, but i know what went down in general. furthermore, what about the backlash at the april fools announcement? you ignored my bringing it up. again.
regardless, i'll compare whatever the hell i want with anything i want to. that you keep telling me not to pretty much ensures i will do so every post.
edit dug up old thread and linked it, to show the massive backlash.
-
Vitriol.
-
Vitriol.
negative. it is castigation.
-
regardless, i'll compare whatever the hell i want with anything i want to. that you keep telling me not to pretty much ensures i will do so every post.
Go you, this is an entirely productive comparison to make and your stated intention, to repeat it ad nauseum, will in no way make you look like a defiant child, gj.
From my understandings of the Nexuiz case, admittedly based more on what lava told me at the time than on angry backlashy forum threads, but even taking those into consideration, it bears very little resemblance to the situation with tremulous2, i don't think dragging it, or the april fools post, up is particularly worthwhile.
-
regardless, i'll compare whatever the hell i want with anything i want to. that you keep telling me not to pretty much ensures i will do so every post.
Go you, this is an entirely productive comparison to make and your stated intention, to repeat it ad nauseum, will in no way make you look like a defiant child, gj.
From my understandings of the Nexuiz case, admittedly based more on what lava told me at the time than on angry backlashy forum threads, but even taking those into consideration, it bears very little resemblance to the situation with tremulous2, i don't think dragging it, or the april fools post, up is particularly worthwhile.
are you really this dense? im pretty sure the language i have been using is not ambiguous.
the point of it all is the angry forum reaction. the backlash. in the case of the april fools post, the "thousands of emails" from concerned players.
i'll state it clearly so there can be no excuse for misunderstanding, a commercial sequel/version of tremulous will create a massive explosion of hatred for all things tremulous.
-
i'll state it clearly so there can be no excuse for misunderstanding, a commercial sequel/version of tremulous will create a massive explosion of hatred for all things tremulous.
I'm a little confused, hasn't he already had a telling off and decided to change the name? Regardless, a massive explosion of anything is probably more interesting than overwhelming apathy and stagnation, ho hum.
I think this will probably be the last time i bother to engage you, Rak, i've grown rather tired of your seemingly endless appetite for these silly arguments, have fun attacking a thoroughly disinterested target.
-
i'll state it clearly so there can be no excuse for misunderstanding, a commercial sequel/version of tremulous will create a massive explosion of hatred for all things tremulous.
I'm a little confused, hasn't he already had a telling off and decided to change the name? Regardless, a massive explosion of anything is probably more interesting than overwhelming apathy and stagnation, ho hum.
I think this will probably be the last time i bother to engage you, Rak, i've grown rather tired of your seemingly endless appetite for these silly arguments, have fun attacking a thoroughly disinterested target.
yes, crisis averted. ive basically just been explaining why there even was a potential "crisis", and what is morally (and legally) wrong with the whole idea. while you may think "ANY reaction is a good one, because right now it is stagnant", i would rather see trem wither and die. as opposed to the hate explosion, of course. if you can find an example of a FOSS project followed by a "commercial" sequel developed by (mostly) no one involved in the original project that did not generate a massive hate backlash, i would be interested to see it.
c'mon, you know this isnt "attacking" you (i am interpreting "a thoroughly disinterested target" as you) yes, my appetite is endless. if it were not, why would i even be on an online forum? there are two main purposes to any online forum: petty argument, and self gratifying circle-jerks. still, you confuse me. you say "any reaction is better to the current apathy", yet my own impassioned arguments (the tip of the shitstorm iceberg, were rota's plans to come to fruition) tires you so much you claim you will no longer "play my game", so to speak.
this last bit could be interpreted as an attack, but i prefer to think of it as blunt advice. stop being a drama queen. actions speak louder than words. if you no longer wish to respond to me, great, do so. just dont say so. this makes you out to look like those who absolutely must tell you "blocked" when they block you. we both know that if we both stick around here, eventually i am going to "say" something you just cannot resist replying to.
thought for the day:
Note 4: The best, although not always easiest, way to deal with trolls is thus: do not respond at ALL in the thread.
-
my own impassioned arguments (the tip of the shitstorm iceberg, were rota's plans to come to fruition) tires you so much you claim you will no longer "play my game", so to speak.
Sorry, i wasn't very clear, it's not driven purely by your input in this thread, it's all the interactions with you over the years and the few i've seen dotted around the forums from this visit back, I realise it looked a lot like a "ZOMG, i'm so totally ignoring you, look! See, see how much i don't care!", i just wanted to make it clear that this isn't fun.
-
my own impassioned arguments (the tip of the shitstorm iceberg, were rota's plans to come to fruition) tires you so much you claim you will no longer "play my game", so to speak.
Sorry, i wasn't very clear, it's not driven purely by your input in this thread, it's all the interactions with you over the years and the few i've seen dotted around the forums from this visit back, I realise it looked a lot like a "ZOMG, i'm so totally ignoring you, look! See, see how much i don't care!", i just wanted to make it clear that this isn't fun.
i dont think you quoted the right section of text. it looks as if you responding to the end of my post, because what you say here does little to alleviate my confusion. here i am providing you with an alternative to stagnancy, yet because i enjoy pointless, petty, arguments, it is not good enough for you?
and can you not see the hypocrisy of your last posts in light of the fact that you came into the discussion not particularly disputing my views, but attacking me, personally? how would you expect me to react, keeping in mind all of your interactions with me over the years, and what you've seen dotted around the forums? especially when you miss/forget the point ive been bringing up here over and over, when i have lost count of how many times i have stated it in no uncertain terms?
even more confusing is that you have stated yourself to be completely disinterested, especially in interacting with me, yet you had to come back and make a response that really looks like you are trying to save face somehow. it seems to me, if you were truly as disinterested as you claim, and have no desire to get sucked into the petty arguments i love so much (and think are great fun) that you would have posted nothing in the first place.
-
This is the only thread that keeps the forums going.
It is not about Tremulous.
-
I tried, but Timbo was right.
Nothing good comes from posting on these forums.
-
what is morally (and legally) wrong with the whole idea.
Morals on the Internet... ::)
-
While you may be factually right, that hardly means you are morally right. And this morality is why this situation is a pretty hurtful thing altogether. The Tremulous Copyright Gestapo hates on the Tremulous2 Copyright Terrorists and of course they hate you back just as much, while in the end everybody is left with nothing but a very sour taste in his or her mouth, except of course for the few people who actually get happy from an outcome like this.
boiler plate.
Are you happy with the outcome of this situation?
no, we will not be happy until
- rotacak and his team give proper attribution, or
- the assets of Tremulous 2 are proven to be original compositions.
you still don't understand the possible outcomes:
- Tremulous 2 continues as originally intended -- using unattributed (illegal) content. this is the worst outcome, and this is what we are to prevent. you could argue that there is much public good (and good for the infringers), but i'll argue that the measure (or weighted sum) of the whole thing (all entities involved) is negative, because
- there is very much personal bad (anti-good), and
- the act of infringement and its non-handling by the world demonstrates a path for other people to follow; and if being Robin Hood is legal, then there is no incentive for anyone to make outstanding products: they wouldn't get anything out of their efforts.
- Tremulous 2 continues almost as originally intended, with included attribution statements. this is the best outcome, and this is what we tried to achieve. i have no idea why rotacak decided against this. what's so fucking difficult in giving attribution statements?
- Tremulous 2 gets semi-revamped, with content being half-original, reached by modifying the original models here-and-there until they look significantly different, to the point that noone could prove that the original models were used as a starting point. this is a rather bad outcome, similar to the first one, with similar explanations.
- Tremulous 2 gets fully revamped: all content becomes fully original. this is a rather good outcome: good for everyone except for the infringers. but the 2nd outcome would be better, because then,
- the new game would be available to the public sooner, and
- it would be more like Tremulous.
these outcomes are also combined with being able or not being able to use "Tremulous 2" as the legal name for the new game.
I tried, but Timbo was right.
Nothing good comes from posting on these forums.
WRONG. we, including Timbo, are all notified of random people stomping on our (copy)rights.
-
Our copyrights?
-
Tremulous 2 continues almost as originally intended, with included attribution statements. this is the best outcome, and this is what we tried to achieve. i have no idea why rotacak decided against this. what's so fucking difficult in giving attribution statements?
well, said assets would also have to be released under CC-BY-SA, but thay changes nothing and is just a small detail.
Our copyrights?
dev/hc holds copyright to all of his contributions, as does everyone who's work is included in tremulous. when you are one of the ones who holds copyright, you can include yourself into the group with use of the word "our".
-
Since dev/hc is talking about Tremulous' assets and dev/hc has not contributed any assets that are released, it's not about 'our' copyrights in this case.
[EDIT] My final words in this matter are that once again humans have shown to find it very hard to work together while finding it very easy to work against each other. In the end this leaves everybody with nothing.
-
Since dev/hc is talking about Tremulous' assets and dev/hc has not contributed any assets that are released, it's not about 'our' copyrights in this case.
[EDIT] My final words in this matter are that once again humans have shown to find it very hard to work together while finding it very easy to work against each other. In the end this leaves everybody with nothing.
im pretty sure dev/hc did a fix to the new zap system, if nothing else.
as to your "final word", yes. you have proven this by arguing against those in the right. you are still welcome to join us in browbeating rota till he either comes into compliance with CC-BY-SA, or does his own damn concept work. stop working against us, and work with us, my friend.
-
i have contributed plenty of code, most of which are bugfixes; but no artwork.
Our copyrights?
yes, in general. in this one case, i may be excluded, but who knows: we do not yet, for sure, know what happens to the code!
you're ignoring the point.
-
Gentlemen, no need to beat a dead horse
In the terminology of finance.. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dead_cat_bounce)
-
hi lava croft!
-
hi lava croft!
no love for flux?
-
i have contributed plenty of code, most of which are bugfixes; but no artwork.
Our copyrights?
yes, in general. in this one case, i may be excluded, but who knows: we do not yet, for sure, know what happens to the code!
you're ignoring the point.
The code is GPLd, is it not? Rota has no agreement from the original devs, or anyone else for that matter, to relicense, not sure what he's going to be able to do without at least releasing the source, what's the problem?
-
i have contributed plenty of code, most of which are bugfixes; but no artwork.
Our copyrights?
yes, in general. in this one case, i may be excluded, but who knows: we do not yet, for sure, know what happens to the code!
you're ignoring the point.
The code is GPLd, is it not? Rota has no agreement from the original devs, or anyone else for that matter, to relicense, not sure what he's going to be able to do without at least releasing the source, what's the problem?
unattributed art/assets, in violation of CC-BY-SA.
someone probably should also tell rota that it is still not ok to be using "tremulous 2" even if he did use mspaint to put a big X on it.
for total safety, i myself would also ditch the domain name.
-
The code is GPLd, is it not? Rota has no agreement from the original devs, or anyone else for that matter, to relicense, not sure what he's going to be able to do without at least releasing the source, what's the problem?
the artwork is CC-BY-SA'd, is it not? rotacak has no agreement with the original developers, or anyone else for that matter, to relicense; not sure what he's going to be able to do without at least attributing the assets; what's the problem?
-
oh, and the code was never really an issue. he wants to use the ut3 engine. ive been lead to believe trem's code is not compatible.
it issue is, and always was name + art.
-
* content replaced with picture of a goose *
(http://i.imgur.com/QyJ0KBx.jpg)
It looks like he has a new kickstarter and a name
http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1376466869/lore-0
-
So having read through this thread and others, there is clearly some misunderstanding over Tremulous's status as an open source project and the associated legalities and legal concepts. I'm going to attempt to clear things up. These views are literally my own and specifically are not necessarily held by other people involved with Tremulous (though I hope they are).
Trademark
A trademark is a way of owning a particular sign or word that relates to your product. Tremulous is not trademarked and we have no intention of having it trademarked. It has been argued that common law trademark applies to the name in some territories. This may or may not be the case. I don't particularly care either way; it's a dictionary word and claming trademark ownership over it is pretty silly. I don't particularly care if someone calls something Tremulous or not; the name is not important.
Patents
A patent is a way of owning a particular invention or concept. In the case of Tremulous, the patentable concept would be something along the lines of "a video game containing aliens and humans that each build bases". My personal opinion is that the idea that you can essentially "own" a thought like this is absurd. The original intention of a patent was to protect a new idea so that it can be developed and brought to market while more resourceful competitors are prevented from "stealing" the idea. In this way the competitors would have to find other ways to get the same result so in theory innovation is encouraged. In practice what actually happens is large companies have big pools of patents that they trade between one another. Many, if not most of these patents are never actually developed and simply used as legal bargaining chips. In other words, the patent system is directly hurting innovation and development. There are exceptions to any rule. In particular the pharmaceuticals industry has a decent claim to requiring patents. They can spend inordinate sums of money developing a drug which can eventually be drawn on the back of an envelope. If patents for such inventions weren't in place it would be very easy for rival companies to immediately profit without any R&D on their part.
Tremulous is not patented, nor is there any intention of having it patented. I hope any attempt to patent the aliens versus humans concept would fail -- it's a ridiculous thing to claim.
Copyright
Copyright is where the author(s) of a tangible work are automatically given exclusive rights to it; i.e. they say who can do what with it. In Tremulous there are several things that are copyrighted: the code, the assets and the game itself. The fact that Tremulous is released under permissive licenses does not mean that it is not under copyright. The licenses rely on copyright law to work. Saying "you can't copyright something that is free/open source" is absurd. Virtually all software, open or closed, free or not, is copyrighted. I believe some people think that Tremulous is "public domain". Releasing as such means to give up all your rights to it. This is not the case.
The code is GPL. This means that anyone that distributes binaries of the code must also provide the source code. This restriction in apparent freedom actually promotes freedom. The GPL permits you to charge a distribution fee; though in the era of the internet this very rarely happens. There are no plans to ever charge in this way.
The assets are CC-BY-SA. This means that you are free to use them providing you attribute the work to the original author(s) and that you also share your changes with others in the same way. In many ways it is the asset equivalent of the GPL.
The game itself is copyrighted. By this I mean a game containing specifically a Dretch, specifically a Granger, specifically a Battlesuit etc., that when combined form the "Tremulous universe". In other words, the specific Tremulous game design is under copyright. The genre of an aliens vs humans with bases shooter is not and cannot be copyrighted (but potentially could be patented; see above).
There have been many contributors to Tremulous so there are at least dozens or possibly even hundreds of copyright holders involved. I am one (albeit probably the most significant). If somebody wants to do something with the code, the assets or the game design that doesn't fall under the above guidelines, each and every copyright holder must agree. In other words, even if I wanted to make a commercial version of Tremulous I couldn't, because I would need to get the agreement of said copyright holders and these are just too many of them to make this practicable.
It's kind of disappointing to read some of reactions to this whole debacle, particularly as the most vitriolic claim to have been playing Tremulous for a long time. Tremulous is not something I personally get a great deal of benefit from on the social aspect, I mainly did it because I like tinkering with games and software. Having said that it would be nice to feel appreciated once in a while or rather not be hated. If you're here at all it's because at some point you had fun with something that I made in spare time and gave you for free.
-
And why u need ur bros like Looki and NomadCZ (ofc a czech guy) to give u support? Ur not able to fight ur own wars urself? awwww.
1. Dyslexia
2. Then we can take your tremulous dev support as same, as our support for T2
3. chill out
4. bye
no, we will not be happy until
- rotacak and his team give proper attribution, or
- the assets of Tremulous 2 are proven to be original compositions.
you still don't understand the possible outcomes:
- Tremulous 2 continues as originally intended -- using unattributed (illegal) content. this is the worst outcome, and this is what we are to prevent. you could argue that there is much public good (and good for the infringers), but i'll argue that the measure (or weighted sum) of the whole thing (all entities involved) is negative, because
- there is very much personal bad (anti-good), and
- the act of infringement and its non-handling by the world demonstrates a path for other people to follow; and if being Robin Hood is legal, then there is no incentive for anyone to make outstanding products: they wouldn't get anything out of their efforts.
- Tremulous 2 continues almost as originally intended, with included attribution statements. this is the best outcome, and this is what we tried to achieve. i have no idea why rotacak decided against this. what's so fucking difficult in giving attribution statements?
- Tremulous 2 gets semi-revamped, with content being half-original, reached by modifying the original models here-and-there until they look significantly different, to the point that noone could prove that the original models were used as a starting point. this is a rather bad outcome, similar to the first one, with similar explanations.
- Tremulous 2 gets fully revamped: all content becomes fully original. this is a rather good outcome: good for everyone except for the infringers. but the 2nd outcome would be better, because then,
- the new game would be available to the public sooner, and
- it would be more like Tremulous.
I'm sorry to disappoint you sire. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LoXfiSU_wqE)
Nothing of your demanding will ever happen. If you would be more active elsewhere than on this oldie forum, you'd know.
-
Wasn't the original intent to "change name and move along" but now it's "change everything."
Someone recap what's going on for me?
-
Nothing of your demanding will ever happen. If you would be more active elsewhere than on this oldie forum, you'd know.
the only other option is that work on Tremulous 2 stops, and copyrighted derivative works (eg., screenshots/images) get taken off. that is not what we prefer, but that isn't our call.
Wasn't the original intent to "change name and move along" but now it's "change everything."
Someone recap what's going on for me?
fuck this shit.
1. rotacak announced Tremulous 2 and its website.
2. people noticed (via the posted images) that the design of certain models were trivial derivatives of the original Tremulous models (assets). the Tremulous 2 people denied any "copying", but the facts were obvious: the new models looked exactly like the original ones, excluding the applied surface smoothing. this apparently caused rotacak some embarrassment, as he was unable to "sell" the proposition that the new models were "original".
3. by the CC-BY-SA licensing of the original assets, the website should have had a statement mentioning the authors of the original assets, but that didn't happen. people notified rotacak that what his team was doing was illegal, and that CC-BY-SA licensing statements should be applied. rotacak refused to comply in a reasonable amount of time.
4. some people also noted that Tremulous' source code is licensed under the GPL, but based on the Tremulous 2 website, rotacak was not planning to use any of that code.
5. some people also claimed that the name "Tremulous" is "copyrighted", and that Tremulous 2 should thus be renamed. (this is very doubtfully the case, and the name is actually of the least importance.)
6. Timbo reported the illegalness (due to the stealing of assets) of the project to Kickstarter, an "advertizing" platform that rotacak uses (AFAICT).
7. rotacak went apeshit.
-
I'm sorry to disappoint you sire. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LoXfiSU_wqE)
I've briefly returned to thank you for reminding me about that movie. Enjoy your first turret.
Now, back to whatever's going on here with the lot of you.
-
7. rotacak went apeshit.
And he's selling grangers but oh well. I'd honestly want one but the prices are annoyingly huge. Well not as much as the granger from the 3D printer ($10 for the size of a keyring?)
I'm sorry to disappoint you sire. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LoXfiSU_wqE)
Enjoy your first turret.
I never really cared about that karma crap, realising this I have a much lower ratio than /d/hc has. How do you vote down turrets anyway, I never really saw that option in the past, only +1 or +0.
-
Rotacak you are greedy, you want to copy tremulous with a better graphic and sell it without giving part of incomes to tremulous developers? your'e just an idiot if you think they would let you do that. And everyone stop flame on tremulous developers! maybe they aint do a shit for game sience relase but this is still thier idea and thier huge amount of work and respect them for that!.
Rotacak i respect you but you have no concept for a game, you have concept for copying game and earning money on someone else back, GTFO and get some invention to create something which will be yours.. Or atlast if you would have a brain you could deal with tremulous developers and give part of incomes to them, but it seems like you are too greedy for that?.
-
Rotacak i respect you
Rotacak you are greedy
your'e just an idiot
Or atlast if you would have a brain
One is not like the others. Can you find it?
-
Rotacak i respect you
Rotacak you are greedy
your'e just an idiot
Or atlast if you would have a brain
One is not like the others. Can you find it?
Only 2 first are statements, rest you took out of the context "wiseguy".
-
the only other option is that work on Tremulous 2 stops, and copyrighted derivative works (eg., screenshots/images) get taken off. that is not what we prefer, but that isn't our call.
See now you repeat it all again around. Tremulous 2 is stopped. God damn don't be too lazy fatass copyright lawyer nerd and click on a link which has been posted by lava croft.
That isn't your call. Why do you stand for it anyway since it isn't yours. Kthxbai
I've briefly returned to thank you for reminding me about that movie. Enjoy your first turret.
Now, back to whatever's going on here with the lot of you.
Glad somebody knows this masterpiece. Well, honestly, I do not care about karma rating. I always tend to keep it negative.
-
The code is GPLd, is it not? Rota has no agreement from the original devs, or anyone else for that matter, to relicense, not sure what he's going to be able to do without at least releasing the source, what's the problem?
the artwork is CC-BY-SA'd, is it not? rotacak has no agreement with the original developers, or anyone else for that matter, to relicense; not sure what he's going to be able to do without at least attributing the assets; what's the problem?
I see what you tried to do there, but my point was related to lava's
Our copyrights?
Which i realise was a little dickish, anyway, my thoughts were that a) the code isn't going to be of use for a project based on a different engine and b) even if it were to be ripped off and modified sources not released it seems that, as GPL'd code, it would be easier to get someone to help you chase them about a violation than if your artwork/style/general ip is being reworked and used in a commercial project(i haven't seen high profile CC violations cases on slashdot, hell, i haven't seen any).
7. rotacak went apeshit.
And he's selling grangers but oh well. I'd honestly want one but the prices are annoyingly huge. Well not as much as the granger from the 3D printer ($10 for the size of a keyring?)
I did wonder, Where's he selling them? ::)
it would be nice to feel appreciated once in a while or rather not be hated. If you're here at all it's because at some point you had fun with something that I made in spare time and gave you for free.
I'm sure far more people than you realise are extremely appreciative of your efforts and have derived a great deal of enjoyment from your work over the years, i know i certainly have, thanks. A gaggle of halfwits whipped up into a deeply misguided frenzy by someone like rotacak probably aren't worth worrying about.
-
click on a link
do not try to teach me how to use my computer system (specifically how to follow a link to visit a web page). you have no idea how it works, and are unable to help in any way.
the only other option is that work on Tremulous 2 stops, and copyrighted derivative works (eg., screenshots/images) get taken off. that is not what we prefer, but that isn't our call.
See now you repeat it all again around.
WRONG.
Tremulous 2 is stopped.
WRONG.
God damn don't be too lazy fatass copyright lawyer nerd and [follow] a link which has been posted by lava croft.
the linked page says that the Kickstarter systems has paused the funding process, you dumbass. nowhere has it been stated that development has stopped.
That isn't your call. Why do you stand for it anyway since it isn't yours.
i don't, you dumbass. allow me to quote myself:
that is not what we prefer
-
click on a link
do not try to teach me how to use my computer system (specifically how to follow a link to visit a web page). you have no idea how it works, and are unable to help in any way.
Oh no, I don't. I am stupid idiot who dares to open mouth and start debating with fat nerd.
I haven't come to cisco high school to get some kind of bitching from some fat dumbass that says I know A big shite.
Anyways you didn't get the point. I was telling you that you should try and visit that website. And you did.
the only other option is that work on Tremulous 2 stops, and copyrighted derivative works (eg., screenshots/images) get taken off. that is not what we prefer, but that isn't our call.
See now you repeat it all again around.
WRONG.
In this case I didn't mean you but the whole community.
Tremulous 2 is stopped.
WRONG.
Actually it is. The name Tremulous 2 is free again (oh wait, it isn't and it wasn't also), and the former 'T2' is going to be something different. So is Tremulous 2 stopped? Yeah it is.
the linked page says that the Kickstarter systems has paused the funding process, you dumbass. nowhere has it been stated that development has stopped.
Oh really?
Tremulous 2 (Canceled) is the subject of an intellectual property dispute and is currently unavailable.
What means the word 'canceled'? Yeah it means NOTHING, of course. Gotta buy yourself bigger glasses if you couldn't see it.
i don't, you dumbass. allow me to quote myself:
You said 'we' so you're also in.
And I am not gonna quote again your 'dumbass' insults, stop behaving like moron.
KTHXBAI
PEACE :angel: or WAR :battlesuit:
-
I am stupid idiot
Context be damned, he finally got something right...
Kids, can we maybe stop the bickering?
-
Anyways you didn't get the point.
WRONG. you should actually read the post that you are replying to.
I was telling you that you should try and visit that website. And you did.
yes, i did (FYI: even before you directed me to the site).
Actually it is. The name Tremulous 2 is free again (oh wait, it isn't and it wasn't also), and the former 'T2' is going to be something different. So is Tremulous 2 stopped? Yeah it is.
WRONG. you're trying to mask your WRONGness by trying to define a game name change as: a game being stopped and a new game being started. that's retarded.
Tremulous 2 (Canceled) is the subject of an intellectual property dispute and is currently unavailable.
What means the word 'canceled'? Yeah it means NOTHING, of course. Gotta buy yourself bigger glasses if you couldn't see it.
that's the Kickstarter-project, you fucktard. a Kickstarter-project is a registration through which "something" is funded; in this case, the "something" is the development of the game. whether the Kickstarter-project (funding) is paused, canceled, etc., has no formal bearing on whether the development continues.
i don't, you dumbass. allow me to quote myself [...]
You said 'we' so you're also in.
WRONG. "we" means that not only i am not in, but the rest of "us" are not in as well. i'll quote myself yet again, you wormbrain:
Tremulous 2 stops, and copyrighted derivative works [...] get taken off [...] is not what we prefer
that is, we do not stand by the option that "Tremulous 2 stops, and copyrighted derivative works get taken off".
-
Lol I'd answer again and again but your stupidness has no end, have you ever read your posts? Nevermind...
-
I am stupid idiot
Context be damned, he finally got something right...
Kids, can we maybe stop the bickering?
but without the bickering, we have nothing!
-
Lol I'd answer again and again but your stupidness has no end, have you ever read your posts? Nevermind...
actual fact: you have been PWNT to the point of being practically speechless.
-
Lol I'd answer again and again but your stupidness has no end, have you ever read your posts? Nevermind...
actual fact: you have been PWNT to the point of being practically speechless.
you WRONK. me STRONK