Tremulous Forum
Media => Map Releases => Topic started by: Ingar on August 17, 2006, 04:47:01 pm
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[edit 2007-03-11] After a few multi-hour games I have decided Procyon would be better off without impenetrable human base and the unbeatable spot above the stairs nearby. I also fixed a bug where a tyrant gets stuck if he takes the teleporter to the Nexus.
Web: http://ingar.satgnu.net/tremulous/procyon.html (http://ingar.satgnu.net/tremulous/procyon.html)
PK3: http://ingar.satgnu.net/tremulous/files/map-procyon-r1.pk3 (http://ingar.satgnu.net/tremulous/files/map-procyon-r1.pk3)
Readme: http://ingar.satgnu.net/tremulous/files/map-procyon-r1.txt (http://ingar.satgnu.net/tremulous/files/map-procyon-r1.txt)
Layout:http://ingar.satgnu.net/tremulous/procyon/layout.jpg (http://ingar.satgnu.net/tremulous/procyon/layout.jpg)
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These past few months have been quite the adventure: the Tremulous community has some interesting people and again I would like to thank those who have supported me in this undertaking. The future holds more knowledge and skill than I had a few months ago and I hope I can put it to good use.
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Looks great, but doesn't this map favor the aliens a little bit?
The human base has 3 fall ins for the aliens which look not easily blockable wheras the aliens have only 2 that look to be quite defendable with acid tubes alone...
Edit: the screens look great, but to see any detail it would be nice if the light would turned on .)
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Looks awsome!
I test it in min...
Offtopic: does anyone know the cmd that changes alien/human stages?
EDIT:
Damn. This f*cking cool map! If this is just a preview then how big will real one be?
I noticed that best alien base spot is actualy just next room from humans (where are two air wents with blades.)
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Thanks for your encouraging words :)
To clarify the state of the map:
I'm preparing another room to connect to the dead ends
of the Nexus part, the alien spawn should move
to that side of the map. So what we have now should
be about two-thirds the size of what is has to become.
I'm not really sure what I will do with the human spawn,
I was thinking of adding a smaller, more closed room
next to the arena.
I reserved some space for interconnecting corridors,
I hope playtesting will give me some hints on where to place them.
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after all those crappy maps finally some quality work
thanks
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Seems to be a pretty good map, would be nicer if it had some water in it, i assume this is a watering installation of some sort?
Maybe you add something so players can add or lower the water, so it would be a little bit harder to manouver, or that you can fully flood 1 corridor or something like that :) .
Again it is a good map, hoping to see the next version of it soon :) .
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Great atmosphere,
one fear still it looks a bit too much tunnel like. Maybe one or two center rooms would break the "monotony" of corridors?
Anyway superb architecture!
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Good map, but it's TOO open.
If you have experience with the human base below the stairs in arachnid, you'll know that open bases are a pain to defend.
The problem is that your map is all like that, there are few spot where you can make a tight base (and that's with custom bps)
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Thanks for your encouraging words :)
To clarify the state of the map:
I'm preparing another room to connect to the dead ends
of the Nexus part, the alien spawn should move
to that side of the map. So what we have now should
be about two-thirds the size of what is has to become.
I'm not really sure what I will do with the human spawn,
I was thinking of adding a smaller, more closed room
next to the arena.
I reserved some space for interconnecting corridors,
I hope playtesting will give me some hints on where to place them.
There will be a smaller room next to the default human base :) .
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Finally. I've been waiting for another good map for a while, not this crap that has been coming out.
Keep up the hard work.
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Did not have the time to really play it, but it looks really good by now! Can't wait to see and play the final version!
Well, I promised to post a screen of the bug I found so here it is:
(http://blackheartware.com/trem/procyon.jpg)
Apart from connecting some dead ends I guess the map needs some more inventory / decoration to make those big rooms a bit more crowded.
Gameplay can be judged after some good matches... it is up on Derelict and so you will get some feedback soon, I guess.
Keep up the good work! ;)
Danny
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huge... open areas and closed areas... after watching it on the beta server, it looks fun as hell, except i got lost without seeing anyone for like 2 minutes.
very good for a first realse.
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yeah. its an easy to look at lay out but its kinda eay to get lost until u know the map. and that could turn away some ppl from playing on it.
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If possible try using a non tech texture pack.
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As everyone else has said, a great piece of work, well done. You've already mentioned you need to add details; in general I think some of the rooms need more clutter, while others are prefect as is. The waterway room is fine, whereas the nexus room feels very barren, linear and open. I hesitate to suggest 'barrels and crates' to break things up, but in a couple of rooms it would help. Basically to provide cover, hinder tyrant charges in some places, and the like. As an alternative to crates, some random pieces of equipment (eg in the vent room) would be one possibility. Oh, and if adding such 'props', please don't align them to the grid - for some reason all the other maps have the most neatly stacked crates ever!
Performance wise, I would again be worried about the nexus room, especially if either team moves to a (currently non finished) dead-end room off the south or west corridors - the PVS in the centre of the nexus room is going to be quite high. On the other hand, most people have pretty fast computers these days.
Finally, I'm a little nervous about the number of 'trapdoor' movement elements, eg the staircase room and waterway, where one wrong step, or push-back, might knock you off an edge and require a very long walk to get back to where you were - if this was happening under fire, it could make life very tough. That's a perfectly valid gameplay design, of course, but if testing reveals one side can too easily hold such a room, you could add guard rails or similar (thinking of the staircase) again. That said it looks great without them.
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People seem time like Procyon, that's a good sign :-)
The biggest issue seems to be that the map is quite large
and the nexus room has the tendency to become a human
pulse-rifle arena. Having played a few games myself
I think I should concentrate on gameplay and try to get the map
balanced.
Decorating the Nexus-area would be a great step forward,
IMHO adding some places to hide could also reduce
the "big map" feeling.
I was thinking about adding a promenade on top of
the nexus-room and stairs up in the connecting tunnels.
The cathedral needs a way up too. The upper area is too inviting
for campers.
Very important: the spawns should be moved.
I' m still not sure where to put them,
any suggestion is welcome.
Some other issues have been found:
-a few tyrant traps that need to be fixed
-the alcove in the cage room should be somewhat larger,
the stairs needs some work too (it's floating in mid air and
is somewhat wobbly)
-the room at the north entrance of the nexus (with the red tunnel)
needs work too (It was an inspirational low, but the last room needed
to connect everything 8) )
-I would love to have water flowing in the waterway but this is
eye-candy and will have to wait
Concerning performance:
I did some PVS and r_speeds,
it doesn't seem to bad. Even the nexus' largest view
keeps it around 15K verts.
P.S.:
The weird shiny texture seems like a lighting artifact,
it can probably be fixed with some extra brushes.
P.P.S:
Console commands for map testing:
http://tremmapping.pbwiki.com/Console Commands
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that is very nice.
would be helpful to start both bases with some small bit of defense.
a turret or two, a few tubes.
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would it be possable to have random starting locations?
so there is a list and it picks one.
maby not for this map, but could it be done?
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Great map with a variety of areas (long tunnels, arenas and some small hidey-holes). Both default bases need moving sooner or later (I like this) as the alien base is difficault to defend and the human base is a snipe-tastic goon paradise with the raised walkway. I think some water in the waterway could make a nice finishing touch, but that's just me.
Great work!
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would it be possable to have random starting locations?
so there is a list and it picks one.
maby not for this map, but could it be done?
Yes, but it is not something determined from within the game. The mapper would have to incorporate quite a big trigger system to kill the not needed buildings. It is best if you just don't do that.
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There are some more comments over at tremulous.info -> http://www.tremulous.info/index.php?module=news&action=comment&id=160
Danny
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I just released Procyon preview 2 on my website.
Highlights of this release:
- New spawn locations for everybody
- Upper level of the Nexus room
- Cathedral Stairs
- New shortcut in the Promenade (formerly know as the Arena)
The new things should improve the balance and overall gameplay of the map. I have the impression it feels smaller (and it did shrink a bit)
but it could be imagination :)
Hope you enjoy it.
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this is a very very very nice map.
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Could brush work! But still the map lakes a main them, something that would make it sensationnal. We haev lots of nices indus creation, but no real big concept.
Cool world anyway!
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First impression: Looks very nice, but I would change some things.
- Some textures look very flat, maybe you use detail-textures or dont use everywhere the same concrete-texture
- Some areas look very simple, others more detailed. Bring some more details to the simple areas. Crates or barrels are often a good idea. In addition, some things like pipes would be very nice.
- Use more curves. In a time, where everyone has optimal hardware for the quake 3 engine, you are able to use more curves than earlier. If you want a thing to be round, do it, and don't mess with brushes (e.g. cathedral).
- nexus: The font looks inapplicable. Try a more futuristic font, and give it 50% alpha. Then it should look more real.
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Seems to be a good improvement.
Idea: Maybe you could make it so that the hologram thing in the nexus could be a teleporter to 2-3 parts of the maps, and when you teleport, the text around the hologram starts to spin quickly, just an idea though :) .
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DarkWolf: The one of urbanterror? :eek:
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- Use more curves. In a time, where everyone has optimal hardware for the quake 3 engine, you are able to use more curves than earlier. If you want a thing to be round, do it, and don't mess with brushes (e.g. cathedral).
not everyone has the greatest and greatest hardware, some of us like trem because it will run on as low as 850 mhz cpu's and 32mb video cards
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Don't know das.
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It has improved but what strikes me in most new maps is the lack of wall decoration. It doesn't look nice if a wall texture stretches on for ages without interruption even if it curves or not. Maybe add some fuseboxes, monitors etc on the walls to make it more lively.
Also i suggest using a shader for the starmap rotation and making it non solid so players can pass through it.
I haven't had any real good games on it so I can't say anything about the gameplay.
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I played one proper game on it, and i do think its an improvement on preview 1, however, i feel it was a bit to big for the server i played on (Aliens Wrath max 12 players?), i agree that it would be cool to have more decoration than making it larger again, or if you do add rooms, make it so they dont mean even longer travelling time. Also, it needs vents!
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Also, it needs vents!
Please do not add vents. Be creative:)
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Also, it needs vents!
Please do not add vents. Be creative:)
add square-sectioned rabit holes.
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I think Proyon has enough rooms for now, my intention for pre2 was to
get a layout that is actually playable.
Number one comment is that Procyon is huge. I hadn't really planned for this huge beast, but once I got started with the Waterway things got somewhat out of control 8)
Also, I really can't bring myself to cutting a large piece out if it, that would
feel like like cutting into your baby and leave you with a bleeding heart.
So it will stay a big map, but that does not mean there's no improvement possible. Some thoughts:
- I made the Starchart intentionally weaponclip, it should provide cover
when wandering through the Nexus
- The human base needs improvement, more defence to start
with, so it can not be rushed. Maybe add a tyrant-safe spot.
But I think the spawn is location is better than pre1 :)
- Add more details: some crates are nice, but I need some inspiration
for something different.
- Add some holes, shortcuts, platforms?
- There has to be water in the waterway, I will add it but be patient :)
I'm still thinking on improving on hugeness by adding some teleporters too.
Thanks to the tremulous-fr community for their comments.
thread (French) (http://tremulous-fr.geeknode.org/viewtopic.php?id=157&p=1)
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This is an awesome map. I can't wait to see what it's like when it's done :D
I also think that you need dretch sized vents.
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Map is great but i realy think that this needs vent system to get small aliens show up in their full potential. Also the middle thingy (map?) needs to be nocollide... that is way i got up with mara (using the hologram as wall)
The "room" that can be accessed by jumping on those decorations should also have something to decorate... (if you don't understand the spot i am talking about i could give a screenshot)
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A few week have passed, most rooms are in place and I decided to move
from preview-2 to beta-1. Screenshots and download are on my website, this time I included the map layout in the .zip file.
Download here (http://users.telenet.be/ingar/tremulous).
Highlights of this release:
- An improved rush-proof human spawn room
- Passages around both the Human and the Alien base
- Teleporters
- Added the Generator
- Fixed the bugs found in preview-2
- A few nice spots :wink:
Have fun!
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Photobucket is down so i can't upload any screens. There are some textures missing. I'm presuming they're all the same one because it seems to be a light.
Also there are two serious human advantage bases which are just too biased. The one near the original human base up the ladder behind the crates and the one above the stairs near the main hall. I just have the feeling that once those are established it would be mighty hard to take them down. Tyrants can't reach, the one above the stairs is even very well covered from goon sniping. Marauders look helpless to me in the tight bend and anything lower is instadeath on the turrets/teslas.
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I find the map to be too big, even for larger servers.
Also, the rush-proof human base is a little too rush-proof.
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Survivor,
remove any previous releases from your base dir,
it seems trem uses the shader file from preview2 if it is found.
(re)moving it solves the problem.
I agree the human base is too alien-proof. The camping spot is hard to crack, even by a good alien team with a few tyrants and adv goons. I've already lowered the spot somewhat (also prevents humans for getting hurt when jumping down :) ) and widened the entrance. I don't think this will be enough, but it's a start.
The spot above the stairs is a different story. It's good to know about the humans camping there, I only played games where the alien base was moved over there, so basicly you had a stalemate with the humans in their basespot, and the aliens above the stairs.
Maybe I should just connect both spots with a s3 door and solve two problems at once :D
techhead,
I know Procyon is a large map, some people do not seem to like big maps, others do . This will be a map for the latter. Of course, I am open for discussion, suggestions for improvements etc...
I try to play the map whenever I find it in my serverlist, in my opinion
playing is the best way to determine what has the be changed, and almost every time I gain some useful hints.
Perfection is in the eye of the beholder. I try to strive for balance. The balance of what you want to play and I want to create.
Everybody loves teaser screenshots (http://users.telenet.be/ingar/falls.jpg)
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teaser screenshots (http://users.telenet.be/ingar/falls.jpg)[/i]
I remember seeing that spot in preview 1 and thinking how cool it would look with water in it. Must go see it in game now.
Edit: I guess the water pouring out is only in beta 2 not beta 1.
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It is nice and big, and I myself like big maps.
However, it might be a little too big...
It also does not have much variance in height, aside from the nexus and the cathedral, there are no floors above other floors.
even those spots, the second level just leads to stairs going back down.
Instead of sprawling horizontally, why not make some tiered sections, even if you can't go up and down the short way.
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Overall I like the size of the map - it's not too large especially with the teleporters. My only problem is the tyrant-proof human base on the platform in the ventilation room, this makes many games last over two hours, with much of the game consisting of tyrants aimlessly charging around the vent room while the humans spam them. Perhaps changing the ladder behind the crates for stairs or an elevator might avoid this?
I can't help thinking that some vents would be great - all those little corners but they're all dead ends. A system of ductwork could give continuity to these areas while maintaining their advantage as secluded corners, but to avoid endless games where the last dretch hides in the vents, they could be made "uncampable" - they could blow anything that enters them out from a high air flow while others can be death-traps where where players get diced in fans (think alien 3) or blown into other dangerous areas - like the deep hole behind the crates at the end of the water way. This implies that some vents are extraction points - but maybe if the vents where aliens can camp are within reach of human weapons and those that aren't have high airflow then it might work out.
http://www.taiyosventilation.kom - subterrainian ductwork installation specialists
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Great map with only 2 problems :
- too big. No really, this is over the top. Take that map and make 3 maps out of it. No wait, make 4 maps out of it :D
- unbalanced bases. There is a very strong alien spot near the human base ( fortunately, since it's very close to the human base, it isn't too strong in the end ) and the balcony is far too efficient as a human base. Although I like easy to reach Tyrant proof bases, that spot is too strong even against all other alien forms. On the other hand, the default human base placement is awful ! Far too spread out for a correct defense, armory and telenode behind a grid that blocks all bullets, lots of places for aliens to hide behind crates and get out of LOS ...
PS : Aliens should know by now that Tyrants are close to useless to attack the human base. If nearly all the alien team evolves to Tyrant in that map, they deserve a sound beating IMO.
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Default bases in larger maps are supposed to be horrible, to encourage you to move the base.
And make the map small for frak's sake, that is everyone's problem with it.
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Default bases in larger maps are supposed to be horrible, to encourage you to move the base.
And make the map small for frak's sake, that is everyone's problem with it.
They are not supposed to be horrible. At best, make them weak against opponent stage 3 tech. Do not make them awful.
Forcing humans to move at stage 1 makes the game longer than it should since the whole team will be working on the base move instead of attacking ;)
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IMHO it's up to the mapper really, for example the default human bases on karith, transit and arachnid all need attention or relocation as they are in the middle of nowhere and poorly defended. Other good large maps have the default base is a fairly good location (not necessarily the best location, but still usable - gloom2 and nexus6 for example).
In procyon the default base can be quite strong if consolidated in the space opposite the platform, but most people choose the platform itself as it is essentially tyrant proof.
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And make the map small for frak's sake, that is everyone's problem with it.
Not everyone dislikes the large size.
In fact the size makes it conceivable that a human builder might be able to sneak out of a base that's under attack and rebuild elsewhere, which is good.
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The map sizes makes it also conceivable that a single alien ( Mara or Tyrant ) stalls the end game for 10 or maybe 15 minutes if needed to get a draw.
And don't get me started on egg hunts. With all those teleporters that block the radar, the huge size and lots of places to hide eggs.
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The size is fine, really, its fine with 14 people. still needs some vents tho ;)
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Meant to write smaller.
At least make it more radar-friendly.
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With TremRadio in my ears, I release Procyon Beta 2 to the World.
The changes are mostly eye-candy and details, notable are sounds, some windows to the outside world, and, finally, "real" water in the waterway.
I made some changes to camping spots in the human spawn area, hopefully they will prevent endless stalemate games.
You can find the screenshots and download
at http://users.telenet.be/ingar/tremulous/.
The past weeks have also given me some time to think about where this is all going to. It's impossible to make Procyon smaller without breaking it. I've tried some drastic structural changes, but it just doesn't work out properly. I can't make it bigger either: I have been fighting with the limits of 3map2 and almost every change I make results in long tinkering sessions or a sacrifice of some other details.
I'm still playing with the idea of adding some vents though, I do not think
it will be impossible, I just haven't tried yet. Also, the Nexus center is confusing and makes it hard to pick the right direction, it needs to be fixed for a final release.
So, the final version will still have some rather empty places and it won't
be smaller. If you would like to have a smaller, more trem-like map,
you will have to wait for the next one :)
With some luck the next release will be the Release Candidate, so for now, hang on, and watch out for those sneaky tyrants!
Edit
Previous conclusion sounded like I was giving up on the map
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Well i just read your post in Tremulous.net then downloaded and tested.
Overall its a great map but an unusual bug and some comments included but most of its visual stuff and nitpicks :)
Cosmetic:
I know you posted about this in the main tremulous forums but i still do not understand why. I played the map while having all the previous versions of procyon in my base folder. I loaded the map and was greeted by missing textures/shaders all over the place. Especially the waterway looked amazingly bad o.O. The particle system(?) was showing through the walls.
The following is a light. I'm not sure if thats the correct texture or if thats a missing texture.(Taken with all the previous versions deleted of course :)
(http://img95.imageshack.us/img95/7012/shot0110kd1.th.jpg) (http://img95.imageshack.us/my.php?image=shot0110kd1.jpg)
And, as a special promise, it has an Angel.
Lonely angel?
I like the glass in the doors. Its amazing but In my personal opinion its not transparent and doesn't look like real glass. Thats just a personal opinion though. None of the glass in tremulous looks real anyway :)
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Gameflow:
The new human base looks interesting. Would definitely like to see it in action somewhere soon :) It looks like in a sense it encourages teamwork on the aliens team. What i mean is a dretch or basilisk helping the tyrant up :)
I noticed you clipped that bit in the alien base :)
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Can't think of anything else to add to my post apart from its amazing :)
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I know you posted about this in the main tremulous forums but i still do not understand why. I played the map while having all the previous versions of procyon in my base folder. I loaded the map and was greeted by missing textures/shaders all over the place. Especially the waterway looked amazingly bad o.O. The particle system(?) was showing through the walls.
The problem lies with the shader and/or particle file: throughout the release cycle I made some changes that are not backwards compatible. For some reason, the engine gives priority to the shader file of an older release and ignores the new one. In case of the water, the shader used has the same name as the texture used by the shader (procyon/waterjet) and if the wrong shader file is loaded, the texture is used instead of the shader resulting in the effect you described. I encountered this problem when I was first making the waterjets and it took me several days before I noticed that removing older releases solves this problem. I was looking for a problem with the shader, but the problem was the wrong shader was loaded.
Looks like the light has a misaligned texture :oops:.
I like the glass in the doors. Its amazing but In my personal opinion its not transparent and doesn't look like real glass.
It's TremGlass CrystalClear (tm) so it shouldn't look too real :wink: , but it should be semi-transparent (like the screenshot on my site). If it isn't I consider it a bug.
And, as a special promise, it has an Angel.
Lonely angel?
Go sit on her head (how disrespectful!) and check the location message :)
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I didn't read the previous comments on the map, so excuse me if I repeat something that has been said already (I guess so).
I've played 3 games at Procyon in FunZone, and callvoted to skip it a bunch more of times D:
The reason is simple: Each of the three games I played had no end (Funzone has no timelimit nor SD), and, after more than 2 hours of playing, we had to end up deconing the base for being able to switch map. The map is simply too big, so aliens can never be defeated, and has the human base spot too strong, so humans can never be defeated.
That being said, the architecture helps to have interesting fights, and the looks are nice. The problem is the size and the human base. Fixing only the human base won't help enough, cause it will then make it an alien-only map, it needs both.
It can be a great map if those issues are fixed.
EDIT: I'm not sure if it's beta1 or 2 the one at FunZone, but I'm sure you can check it yourself :)
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Those games would have been beta 1. You really should read the previous posts and check beta 2 out :)
I'll try and hassle DVSoftware to get the new version in cycle if he hasn't already.
after more than 2 hours of playing, we had to end up deconing the base for being able to switch map.
Thats just wrong. :evil: Grr
The map is _not_ to big. Pulse is bigger and we all love that map at Derelict don't we?
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BTW, if you take the human base, the big square room at the other side of it (and their unions, ofc), and add a pair of new hallways, you get a proper sized nice map. If you take the central atrium (Procyon shader thing) and the hallways around it, you get a second nice map of it. :P
EDIT: Oh, hadn't seen your reply at the time I was writting this. I never played Pulse, so no idea, sorry.
EDIT2: Maybe "big" is not the key word. Maybe we should better think in number of routes a Granger has to egg spam. A map can be big as long as it doesn't have too many routes, so humans have the chance to hunt all eggs when coming from all routes at once.
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I'm downloading the new version now, but I do think it's still too big. You just can't win against the eggspam as humans... And if you leave the main fighting area for some exploring, more than half of the map is always empty. Even in ~20 player games.
I drew something quick in paint that should reduce this problem without affecting the gameplay too much (imo, at least...). Maybe it gives you at least some ideas.
http://img150.imageshack.us/img150/9180/procyonimprovedmw4.jpg
Feel free to ignore all of this if it seems like a bad idea. The map just doesn't seem perfectly balanced to me yet. Oh, and I don't think I've played Pulse, so I may be missing something about big maps.
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What you people want are maps that are straightforward. We have so many maps where you can't even hide an egg. I applaud ingar and just hope he does something about those lame teleporters. They don't fit in the feel of the map. The rest is coming along nicely.
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It's not about being able to hide an egg or not, really. I don't like ATCS gameplay, for example, but, unfortunately, there is a size where maps get unplayable/onesided in Tremulous. I'd prefer the gameplay was fixed to remove abusive egg spaming and abusive jetpacking, but, in the meantime, there are limitations to mapping imposed by the gameplay that we must live with.
I drew something quick in paint that should reduce this problem without affecting the gameplay too much (imo, at least...). Maybe it gives you at least some ideas.
http://img150.imageshack.us/img150/9180/procyonimprovedmw4.jpg
Agreed, but I would take it further:
http://jal.quakedev.com/procyonimprovedmw5.jpg
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I liked the generator room, but the cul-de-sac that only leads to the Nexus is a problem.
I have an idea but don't have a drawing yet.
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no! dont get rid of the waterway... thats like the bast part and its my favorite :D
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Everytime procyon is played on derelict a team succeeds in winning. The only exceptions are when the humans move to the already identified overpowered human base locations.
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By "a team", do you mean "a team" or "alien team"? :D
When I play Procyon as human, I ALWAYS move slightly the human base to the overpowered base upstairs. Then again, I consider the starting location to be so crappy that it is vital to move the base ;)
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Didn't say that the original human base isn't crap. But the only games that end in a true draw are the ones where the humans move to the mentioned location and half of them camp. If that spot was made less powerful I could agree with it.
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ok this could be my fault because i dont keep up with deleting old versions of maps and stuff...but look at this
Edit: i deleted all 3 of my procyon beta1 files...it still did this...but only as human. also i noticed the flowing water coming out of the holes stopped...is that supposed to happen?
http://rapidshare.com/files/5068881/procyon_glitch.dm_69.html
you dont have to watch the whole thing...just the first few minutes (i dont know how to turn demos off :oops: )
p.s. i sat on the angels head and i didnt get a message :(
p.s.s. the map is big, and confusing, but you dont have to make it smaller if you dont want to. all the people who complain its too big and want you to just scratch a piece of your map because they dont like it dont really matter. its your map and you should be happy with the way it turns out. there will always be people who dont like what you make. :wink:
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p.s. i sat on the angels head and i didnt get a message :(
Just enter some random text in the team chat, then you will see the location message.
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ok this could be my fault because i dont keep up with deleting old versions of maps and stuff...but look at this
Edit: i deleted all 3 of my procyon beta1 files...it still did this...but only as human. also i noticed the flowing water coming out of the holes stopped...is that supposed to happen?
I have to confirm the glitch is not your fault. In fact, it is an old one from preview 2 that has reappeared. It took me a lot of effort to fix this for beta 1, so I didn't bother to look for it again when I finished the waterway. Bad mistake D:
The brushes down there are very touchy, to much careful manipulation can make them go out of control :wink:
The flow is supposed to keep going, so I checked the particles file and made sure they all have count infinite, which is the case.
Is far as I know, particle systems are (re)started when they enter PVS. I haven't checked the code but showtris gives a pretty good idea. To fix some visibility issues, I also changed some parts of the waterway from detail to structural. I have a feeling both are related and the glitch must be in some touchy structural brushes.
Thanks for bringing this to my attention, this thing is nasty!
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looking good, needs more vents still however :D
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This map gets better and better with each new version, keep up the great work Ingar! :D
P.S. love the windows, and the skybox looks like a good choice IMO.
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Spotted this HOM on the waterway: http://www.flickr.com/photos/10974774@N00/339158788/
It's one of those strange ones that only appears from certain angles.
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/me pokes taiyo
I posted that a month ago :-?
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Oh yeah.... :x
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I intend to release the final version of Procyon by the end of the month, so if you have found any bugs I don't know about, please post them as soon as possible :D
The vis bug found by n00b pl0x and Taiyo.uk is fixed, and vcxzet informed me about an other building issue which I have fixed with a nice brush of noclip.
The final realease won't reveal any shocking changes:
the usual optimization, some caulk work and a few details. I must sadly report I had to remove the small hole below the pump in the alien spawn room.
I was just browsing my maps folder and I found the very first part dated july 2, 2006. This is how it began:
(http://img440.imageshack.us/img440/821/arenashot0001gx1.th.jpg) (http://img440.imageshack.us/my.php?image=arenashot0001gx1.jpg)
Consider this the oldest part of the map :) but this also means the 'under construction' sign has been hanging there for over 6 months and at this point I am ready to face the unpleasant truth:
Procyon is... slightly broken. I have been fighting MAX_EDGE_LINES for the last few months and I am pretty sure the vis bug mentioned before has something to do with it, it would explain the horrible compile times and even the location fits: obviously the waterway has many rotated brushes.
This is the reason why things are the way they are. Technically the map still runs fine, maybe even somewhat better for the final release ;) I just have to stop adding details.
Lore
Procyon is the brightest star in the constellation Canis Minor. Its name means "before the the dog" because it precedes the dog star Sirius
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Ingar, have you tried making everything but the map hull 'detail'? Long compile times mean trouble :cry:
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Ingar, have you tried making everything but the map hull 'detail'? Long compile times mean trouble :cry:
In terms of detail brushes, I optimized most of it. There are a few places left but nothing that could yield a few thousand edges. I checked my compile log again and actually it is not the VIS phase that takes a lot of time, but the FixTJunctions part of the BSP/META phase. My latest compile has
--- FixTJunctions ---
39293 axial edge lines
26205 non-axial edge lines
a grand total of 65398 edges. If this hits (+/-) 65535 the compiles dies with MAX_EDGE_LINES. Google says I could try to optimize brushwork, replace brushes with patches, usee models etc.. Me thinks it looks nice enough as it is without having to rebuild major parts of the map.
So it's still possible the flicker bug has nothing to do with the edges issue.
I'm still trying to figure out what a t-junction is exactly , maybe some day I'll understand the finer details of the Quake 3 engine.
Note:
it's not always a good idea to just make the entire hull structural, I was able to fix r_speed issues by turning some strategic details into structurals.
Lore
Visibility is one of the basic design properties of a mapping project.
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Bump for the final release 8)
You can get it here:
http://users.telenet.be/ingar/tremulous/procyon.html
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Map is best custom map i've seen.
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First AR, now Procyon and maybe even Sokolov soon.
I would hope all three of these got included in 1.2.0 :-]
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You forgot to mention Thermal final.
Perhaps some divine intervention will gift us with another release of Pulse.
(Hint Hint)
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Ingar, you have released a fantastic map. By far the best 3rd-party work so far, only it's a bit too big. Now make more maps. <3
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Updated version without the balcony 8) , read the first post!
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New version uploaded to the MG map mirror here (http://mercenariesguild.net/base/map-procyon-r1.pk3)
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Ingar,
G_FinishSpawningBuildable: team_human_mgturret startsolid at (3732 -758 61)
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G_FinishSpawningBuildable: team_human_mgturret startsolid at (3732 -758 61)
Oops, one I missed :oops: , a bit strange too because it was there in the test compile... Maybe I moved it by accident. In any case, 3 turrets remain, and the telenodes are still protected so I hope it won't be that much of a problem.
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<3 ingar