Tremulous Forum
General => General Discussion => Topic started by: Lava Croft on August 26, 2006, 11:06:51 am
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Hello fellow Tremulous players! It seems there is a HUGE amount of people who need enlightment! Please check the following url and bring light into their dark, cold lives!
Click Me! (http://nsplayer.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=1234&st=0)
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On other forums, this kind of post would be cause for a temporary ban.
But this is for a good cause, although I doubt there is much worth to save in the HL/CS community 8)
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aww poor guys They think trem is a NS clone written on q2 engine
wheeeeeeee
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Their comments on trem are completely biased.And calling it ugly :roll: Its far more better looking than any mod based on HL will ever be.
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Oh, i've seen some trem player has posted in there, but he hasn't posted the mandatory OBJECTION ! BAAAAD. let's give them a taste of flash powered tro^H^H^Harguments ! :P
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Anyone recall the password which would let you download the Tremulous beta? :roll: :roll: :roll:
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Oh, i've seen some trem player has posted in there, but he hasn't posted the mandatory OBJECTION ! BAAAAD. let's give them a taste of flash powered tro^H^H^Harguments ! :P
lol XD
I m not sure the admins of the forum would have appreciated a first post with a big OBJECTION
:p
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It's cute how not even a single NS monkey can make more then one coherent sentence per post, often resulting in simple shout-outs such as "rip off", "NS Clone yo!", etc.
Poor morons.
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Please check the following url and bring light into their dark, cold lives!
Click Me! (http://nsplayer.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=1234&st=0)
Done. im not sure how good a job i did on it though.
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Lol, flaming us when we cant even see it, what asshats.
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You know, all I've ever seen of NS fans are dim-witted trolls who think everything ripped off of NS.
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OMG! Super Mario Brothers is a rip off of NS!
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OMG! Super Mario Brothers is a rip off of NS!
OMG THOSE WHITE RECTANGLES BOUNCING THAT SQUARE!
THATS FROM NS!!!
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ZOMG WE EVEN RIPPED OFF THEIR TURRET-STACKING MORONS!
(http://igronet.ru/ns/gallery/5.jpg)
:D
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Holy crap, that game looks like shit.
The turrets in trem at least follow physics, and arent so tiny that the mere force of a decient sized bullet would in real life catapult the turrets across the universe.
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Holy crap, that game looks like shit.
The turrets in trem at least follow physics, and arent so tiny that the mere force of a decient sized bullet would in real life catapult the turrets across the universe.
you re doing with ns exactly what they are doing with trem : you re judging the hole game on a single screenshot. :roll:
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Ksempac is correct, nearly everything you guys have said here is going against what you also claim ‘we/Nsplayer are doing’
Lol, flaming us when we cant even see it, what asshats.
Honestly paradox you fail. infact everyone here is a pretty big disgrace to Tremulous, the thread posted on Nsplayer.net was to let everyone aware there is a similar game to ns, your more likely to get players from ns, then a completely different game and vice versa.
there was little to no flaming before the two tremulous players posted, and compare the amount of smack talk in this thread to the nsplayer one.
As I said on Nsplayer if this thread is an example on how your community works it defiantly put me off playing. Ever.
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Ksempac is correct, nearly everything you guys have said here is going against what you also claim ‘we/Nsplayer are doing’
Lol, flaming us when we cant even see it, what asshats.
Honestly paradox you fail. infact everyone here is a pretty big disgrace to Tremulous, the thread posted on Nsplayer.net was to let everyone aware there is a similar game to ns, your more likely to get players from ns, then a completely different game and vice versa.
there was little to no flaming before the two tremulous players posted, and compare the amount of smack talk in this thread to the nsplayer one.
As I said on Nsplayer if this thread is an example on how your community works it defiantly put me off playing. Ever.
Stop quoting my name to say crap. I dont like stupid people who says something based on little to no information only to look good. That's true for NS or Trem players.
On one hand, Paradox said a stupid thing, i didn t like it and i pointed out that fact.
However, on the other hand, the topic on NS was far from being fair with most of the posts consisting of a single sentence with no argumentation in it. That's why i posted on the NS forum : I gave some real information and argumentation in the topic. So dont quote my name here to say that NS players are so nice and so much better than the Trem community. :evil:
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ZOMG WE EVEN RIPPED OFF THEIR TURRET-STACKING MORONS!
(http://igronet.ru/ns/gallery/5.jpg)
:D
Why does that game's weapons look so cool compared to ours?
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Holy crap, that game looks like shit.
The turrets in trem at least follow physics, and arent so tiny that the mere force of a decient sized bullet would in real life catapult the turrets across the universe.
you re doing with ns exactly what they are doing with trem : you re judging the hole game on a single screenshot. :roll:
And what's more, a lot of the "shit" in that picture comes from jpg compression.
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I'm shocked that the word hasn't been said in this thread before. I will do, see: "Gloom".
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The only reason this was posted is to let Tremulous players know there are certain people who judge our entire game by one screenshot. I wasn't counting on people like Paradox going down that same road. This was meant as a lightweight-joke, exactly what I think Natural Selection is, a light-weight game. Lacking both the 'toughness' of Gloom and 'cuteness' of Tremulous.
That doesn't mean NS has no right to exist, there always has to be a lesser contestant.
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ZOMG WE EVEN RIPPED OFF THEIR TURRET-STACKING MORONS!
(http://igronet.ru/ns/gallery/5.jpg)
:D
Looks good :o
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F*ck all the Admins! They are losers one by one!
pssssst, without admins there wouldn't be servers to play on... ;)
Danny
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Wow. The replies at the NS forum are incredibly arrogant. Pretty much everyone is saying "It sucks. NS is better", without giving any reasons. I doubt some of them actually tried it... Critic is perfectly fine, but not like that.
I'm not getting into this conversation other than that. Some years ago, I discovered NS, and wanted to try it, because it looked incredible. I never got it to work, though. Now I don't even have a copy of HL1 anymore. I might check it out if they'll get the Source version finished, but as it's now, I'd bet that it feels even older than Trem. (Which was one "reason" as to why NS>Trem)
edit: Made some parts slightly more friendly
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i like some hl mods... like plan of attack... anyway i dont really like css nubs that much and never played ns... i thought it was said that both were clones of something from quake......
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OK, according to R1CH (http://www.r1ch.net), I did a bad thing by posting this here, so I guess I gotta say I'm sorry and I didn't mean to do this.
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Sorry about that post earlier, just had to take out some anger on something.
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Tremulous wins IMO.
I can't say that Natural Selection is a bad game though.
I mean, before even getting to the game-content you have plusses.
Tremulous is COMPLETELY FREE.
Natural Selection requires Half-Life
Tremulous runs on UNIX systems, Windows, and MACs (Almost every modern OS)
Natural Selection runs on Windows-only.
Meh, and the giant alien that eats you is so annoying. Overall I've had much more fun playing Tremulous.
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PLUS halflife engine is crap for today But q3 engine is still good and since it is open source you can improve it
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Sorry , but NS is more coherent than Tremulous gameplay wise , well at least it knows no camping - each human staying in base for some reason decreases his team's chances dramatically. The game flow is much smoother than Tremulous' - you always have the opportunity to make a difference helping your team (as opposed to vanilla players in Tremulous , always accused of feeding when they have no chance to win fights) and strategy goes beyond the odd anecdotical relocation. Each destroyed building is a real loss , not something you can fix for free. Only NS has a fully dynamic game flow , without the arbitrary stage kill threshold.
Tremulous takes advantage of the Quake 3 engine well , so naturally it is graphically superior to NS. However , the Half-Life engine has been pushed to its limits for the latter. Tremulous also has a content freedom NS lacks , being defined as a gritty , immersive , hardcore game. It is quite different tactically - players do not spend most of their time attacking and doging each other in NS , but instead try to outmanoeuver their opponent to capitalize on their race advantage. NS is slower paced , but it's far from being a bad thing - the constant action in Tremulous grows unnerving sometimes , while NS lets tension build before each encounter. In general , if you run into the action like you do in Tremulous , you are doing the wrong thing - each team has the opportunity to determine where the big fights take place , not just the humans. NS values the elements of scouting and diversion much , players have to communicate to win - saying "OM , spawn and booster plz" is not enough.
However , I've given up the hope of seeing a game built with the good elements from both games. NS devs have been autistic for years , and I think the Tremulous devs are too proud to change even the most annoying elements specific to Tremulous. Still , it is a sad sight to have prejudiced communities flaming each other for no reason , and think they look smart doing so.
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I think the Tremulous devs are too proud to change even the most annoying elements specific to Tremulous.
Although certainly do not speak for TremDev, I dare to say that they are not as much proud, they are just experienced with Tremulous, as are most of the people who beta tested Tremulous. 95% of all the suggestions given to TremDev are either born out of a lack of experience, or just a general feeling that Tremulous should be more like game X. The 5% of the suggestions that are useful, are certainly takin into account. Some of them have already been fixed, some of them will be fixed over time. The fact that a development team does not take over just about every suggestion people make, does not make them proud. Unless it's Who, naturally.
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NS devs have been autistic for years , and I think the Tremulous devs are too proud to change even the most annoying elements specific to Tremulous.
As Lava already stated, this far from the truth. If the Devs would not want feedback, they would not have installed a feedback forum here.
Well, in this forum is a rather interesting Sticky called Response to suggestions (http://www.tremulous.net/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=373), stating what Devs think about various issues brought up.
Danny
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Hello.
NS vs Tremulous:
- weapons, structures: NS win, much better
- aliens models: Tremulous win, much better
- engine: Tremulous win, much better
- maps: Tremulous win, much better maps. But NS are more 'colorfull' 'fruity detailed' that IMHO can be a god thing in a lame way.
- gameplay: NS is not my tea cup. IMHO Tremulous is better.
Because the engine is one generation better on Tremulous. Tremulous vs NS is like "Duke Nukem 3D" vs "Wolfestein 3D". The engine of Tremulous is much much much better and look and feel better.
But the weapons and some models on NS looks more realistic, so this imho make for something good feel.
CONCLUSION:
Graphics: Tremulous
Audio: Tremulous
Phisics: Tremulous
Gameplay: Tremulous
Tremulous win.
And Tremulous is Free, and Gratis!, and run on my Linux, while NS only run on a windows machine.
Most people on that NS tread are idiots, except maybe "Vitriol" that seems regular.
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Reading some of the comments on that forum pissed me off.
(talking about Tremulous vs NS)
I've palyed it a long time ago, it's purely shit.
a 486 could produce better graphics.
terrible
Played it, it definitly lacks the polish of NS, even though it's been in development longer. Wallwalking is weird (disorientating, as your view changes upside down when you're on the ceiling, and sideways when on walls) and the skulk equivalent slot 1 attack is just to walk into your target.
is it just me or do the graphics look awful as opposed as what it could potentially look like?
The truth about the Natural selection forum is that its a place where morons can meet other morons so that they can spread stupidity all over the game's forum. Don't make the mistake of clicking on the link that Lava posted, it will make you dumber.
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Wallwalking is weird (disorientating, as your view changes upside down when you're on the ceiling, and sideways when on walls)
...so you mean it's realistic...
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I'm just curious, but how, exactly, does Natural Selection keep wallwalking from being disorientating while still letting the player know exactly where they are?
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I've palyed it a long time ago, it's purely shit.
a 486 could produce better graphics.
terrible
is it just me or do the graphics look awful as opposed as what it could potentially look like?
Well I think they forgot the HL1 engine is more out of date, and has less graphical features than the Q3 engine. Did I mention it has better shader support?
Oh shit.
It looks as if their community is made up of computer-illiterate morons who have no room to argue.
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blah blah. and then:
But the weapons and some models on NS looks more realistic, so this imho make for something good feel.
But trem is in a very futuristic setting: why should the weapons look like they do today, or even a little bit like it? why should they still wabble around with the centuries- old shotgun, when they have lasguns and luci cannons and carriable chainguns?
Yeah yeah. I know the shottie is a good weapon in the game, but why should the weapon models look realistic when we would not even know what new technology and maybe some materials we do not know of, or do not use? why should shotgun, or the rifle or ANYTHING have the old- looking design? And how the hell are they able to carry around that chaingun, is it made of paper?
Yeah, the chaingun is the only gun needing a change.
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It looks as if their community is made up of computer-illiterate morons who have no room to argue.
Because invading their forum couldn't possibly have made them defensive. Because being loud and obnoxious encourages reasonable debate.
Give it a rest.
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I'm just curious, but how, exactly, does Natural Selection keep wallwalking from being disorientating while still letting the player know exactly where they are?
Presumeably they stay the same way up where ever they are, and if they look up near a wall they can climb it.
However someone is sure to drag out a post I made recently that that would be the answer to the wallwalking "which way is down?" problem. I still think it would, but I'm just saying it's not as realistic.
You could of course use the same reasoning to suggest that the aliens view should be split into eight seperate views, or that colours should be distorted etc.
Obviously, a 1337 player can think in 3d, just as a 1337 player would learn to use eight views to their advantage, but it raises the barrier to entry for newbies.
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It looks as if their community is made up of computer-illiterate morons who have no room to argue.
Because invading their forum couldn't possibly have made them defensive. Because being loud and obnoxious encourages reasonable debate.
Give it a rest.
How did we "invade" them? Someone just posted a link to this site there, and that constitutes an invasion?
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blah blah. and then:
But the weapons and some models on NS looks more realistic, so this imho make for something good feel.
But trem is in a very futuristic setting: why should the weapons look like they do today, or even a little bit like it? why should they still wabble around with the centuries- old shotgun, when they have lasguns and luci cannons and carriable chainguns?
Yeah yeah. I know the shottie is a good weapon in the game, but why should the weapon models look realistic when we would not even know what new technology and maybe some materials we do not know of, or do not use? why should shotgun, or the rifle or ANYTHING have the old- looking design? And how the hell are they able to carry around that chaingun, is it made of paper?
Yeah, the chaingun is the only gun needing a change.
Yea. Thats a Zen question for Zen moddeler. But anyway the NS weapons feel better. And the NS maps looks more cramped and colorfull. Imho that is a bad thing, but anyway some people will like it more and see Tremulous as a pale "Quake2".
Thats why some moron on that board think Trem is on a Quake2 engine, because maps like ATCS that looks very Quake2-ish, but Imho here Quake2-ishm is very good, while most NS maps looks like too cartoonic to me. And gameplay simply can't be deep on so lame maps.
As soon NS move to a new engine, the gameplay will be better AND THIS WILL BE A GOOD THING.
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As soon NS move to a new engine, the gameplay will be better AND THIS WILL BE A GOOD THING.
What a second, what makes you think that Natural Selection's gameplay will be alot (if any) better then if it moves to a popular engine like source. Counter Strike and day of defeat's gameplay didn't become any better just because they moved to the source engine, they just looked more up-to-date. Besides its not graphics, or technology that make's a game great it's the game's gameplay and controls and everyone who spent more then an hour playing Tremulous should agree that Tremulous has good gameplay.
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most NS maps looks like too cartoonic to me. And gameplay simply can't be deep on so lame maps.
As soon NS move to a new engine, the gameplay will be better AND THIS WILL BE A GOOD THING.
Yeah... I became a better teamplayer when I upgraded my PC , this is probably because poor graphics have an adverse effect on the gamer's brain :P
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How did we "invade" them? Someone just posted a link to this site there, and that constitutes an invasion?
Hello fellow Tremulous players! It seems there is a HUGE amount of people who need enlightment! Please check the following url and bring light into their dark, cold lives!
Click Me! [Link to NS forum]
*cough*
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I played NS for a while on Linux using WINE, before Steam came along and destroyed all that. Prior to that, I gamed under Windows, but I eventually got sick of using crappy Windows 98 (since Win2K wasn't great for games) and banished it from my home. :) But now that I've got an XP gaming system, I was actually just thinking of getting Steam and playing NS again -- despite my reservations about Steam, or the longevity of HL-based mods and all the empty servers.
The same day I was pondering Steam+NS (just this week), I came across Tremulous, and you can imagine I was pretty excited. Been playing every minute of every evening since then, and I can say I like what I've found. (Ironically, I don't have a Linux install on my gaming system yet, so while I played Windows-based HL on Linux, I'm still playing cross-platform Trem on Windows. :D)
Having said I like it overall, it's not NS, and I know it's not meant to be. I saw it mentioned in the other NS-oriented post that NS = strategy teamplay while Trem = strategy deathmatch, and I totally agree -- it puts into words the basic gameplay style difference I was feeling but couldn't put my finger on.
I think each has their place, with advantages and disadvantages.
In both games, the final objective is to destroy the enemy base; the difference is in the means. In that, I preferred NS's system of fighting for objectives rather than fighting for credits/evos. Even suicide rushes were an acceptable tactic so long as you were helping the team, whereas that just feeds the enemy in Trem.
NS is much more slow to develop, because players move slower and res nodes take time to set up -- and even then, they can only produce res at a certain rate. On the other hand, the endgame is more swiftly resolved, because once one team gains an advantage over the other, they can use that advantage to halt (or even reverse) the other team's progress, via securing res nodes and fencing the other side in. Also, even if both teams are evenly matched come the endgame, it only takes a little push to move the game in favour of one side or the other, and that tends to topple the balance pretty fast and lead to a quick victory.
By contrast, I find Trem moves at a quicker speed up until the endgame, where things completely stall. Assuming the humans fail to break through and destroy the alien base before the aliens reach S3, most endgames I've seen take the form of a standoff around the enemy turret defense lines. Unless the humans can break out or the tyrants can break in, it takes Sudden Death mode to decide the game -- usually in favour of the aliens, since they rely on creatures while humans rely on structures.
Trem has a much better variety of human weapons and equipment, but NS's heavy gear is more universally useful than Trem's. The grenade gun is like a faster lucifer, while the heavy MG is like a chaingun with accuracy. Conversely, NS aliens get more abilities than Trem aliens, including the Lerk's true flight, the Onos' ingestion and stomping, and the true ranged attack abilities of the basic Lerk and fully-upgraded Fade. Having more effective marine endgame weapons and more effective alien endgame attacks again contribute to NS's short endgame.
I like the basilisk grabbing and the advanced basilisk's poison a lot. However, I find the latter is nerfed somewhat by humans with helmets being immune, especially since it can be hard to tell whether they've got helmets or not when you're zooming around at typical alien speeds. (Is the helmet immunity a server-specific thing? Because it's not in the manual...)
I found NS's jetpack really sent you flying and was more about getting places fast, while I find Trem's is about taking advantage of the aliens' lack of ranged attack ability. Each is suited to their own game, but I find the latter more useful overall.
Finally, I found NS's wall-walking much less disorienting than Trem's, even with Trem's auto-pitch turned off. I don't recall exactly why (been a long time since I played NS), but I suspect it has to do with faster movement speed, automatic (or just more twitchy?) camera movement, the wider field of view, the lower viewpoint, or perhaps just more complex surfaces. I know Trem has me following just about every bump in the surface of the wall/ceiling (and pitching/rolling wildly while I do), while I seem to recall NS was much more smooth, more like running on a flat floor.
The usefulness of wall-walking in a combat situation suffers accordingly, since more often that not, if I try to run up a wall or across a ceiling, I don't end up where I wanted to be. It's less of a problem when I just want to get somewhere high or wait in ambush, since I have time to pause and get my bearings, but even then it can take a few tries to get where I want, sometimes falling off in the process. Round pipes are probably the worst part of Trem wall-walking; unless I approach them perfectly straight-on, I corkscrew up the pipe and get hopelessly disoriented.
All in all, Trem's gameplay is a bit like "NS Lite" for me, but that's just because NS is more my style, IMO.
Both games rely on old engines -- 1998's Half-Life and 1999's Quake 3 -- but NS's biggest technical disadvantage is its continued reliance on HL (and hence Steam) as compared to Trem's standalone nature. The latter allows for much easier installs, along with customisability of the actual Quake 3 engine itself if needed. And of course, the GPL ensures Trem's continued freedom, whereas NS is well and truly dead as soon as Valve decides to terminate Half-Life support.
Overall, the gameplay difference is small enough that I'm happy enough to avoid Steam and enjoy Trem. Even if I were to install Steam for some other reason, NS simply doesn't have the community any more. So as long as I feel like playing an aliens-versus-humans FPS with RTS characteristics, it looks like I'm here to stay. :)
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Well typed and substantiated. Hope to see you in game.
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I hate steam. I spent my hard earned cash on Half Life 2, and in the end had to download a pirated copy to make the game work.
Fuck if I am ever buying a valve game again.
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5 month old necro. While decent points, I don't want this necro'ing the other thread too. :P
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So is there a policy against necros now? Some other fourms have em. PM me and the other mods if so.