Tremulous Forum
General => Feedback => Topic started by: -Saig- on September 02, 2006, 11:51:50 pm
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Sorry but this is a question Ive always had to ask.
Gas. Whats the point.
Humans more often than not hit Stage 2 well before aliens half the time, so what is the exact benefit for going Adv Basilisk other than the meager 25 health increase.
Even if you do manage to gas someone it takes a long while to do anything. Granted the disorient effect basically ensures any Human afflicted by it will be promptly owned, but still.
Id really like to see the Adv Bas have a better gimmick really.
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Maybe it should contain methane. So that if a pulse riffle or flame thrower were to be used, the gas would explode and cause the human (and unfortunately the Basilisk) damage.
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A better gimmick would be nice, but I doubt we will see any serious changes.
Exploding basilisk gas is a bad idea.
The Adv Basilisk is rather difficult to play as, and the gas attack is marginally useful at best. You are proposing not just to give the humans a way to completely neutralize the gas (other than bsuits/helmets, I mean), but you are proposing it in a way that damages and probably kills the basilisk as well.
Why bother nerfing an already shitty attack?
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I've been playing basi quite a bit recently.. and I feel your pain.. its pure gold when you do actually manage to find someone without a helmet and you gas them and they panic and start running away, you grab their back and rip them apart.. but it doesn't happen often.. and if it does, when they come back they will have a helmet, or a bsuit..
Its not really fair that its special adv power is so easily rendered useless IMHO.. the basi ends up sucking even more in S3 when Bsuits can turn around on you.. at least it can still wallcrawl..
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I use the term gimmick exclusively when describing gas, since thats really all it is. I realise the Basilisk in any form shouldnt be a hardcore attacking class, and Im fully aware of this fact. Hell thats half the reason I enjoy playing the Basilisk though. Its a stealthy, agile class capable of singling out and neutralizing threats on its own.
It cant rush headlong into a crew of Humans and decimate them like a Dragoon/Tyrant can, or even Marauders to an extent. Instead, youre required to creep around, and sieze opportunities to grab and destroy solitary targets. Humans traveling in groups are out of the question, since thats the single best way to thwart any successful Basilisk attack.
So, I dont want to propose anything to be taken seriously, but there was a post a long while ago that covered this exact problem with Advanced Basilisks, and one suggestion someone made, that still sticks to me to this day, really seemed like a great idea to me.
Their idea was to give the Advanced Basilisk the passive ability to be completely undetectable by Helmet Radar.
It suits the class perfectly for its role. Also consider that, in comparison, Humans become much more powerful once they hit Stage 2 than Aliens ever do. Advanced Marauders are great and all, but Humans come funneling out with Flamers, Pulse Rifles, Grenades, but most importantly, Helmets. Those upgrades provide Humans with a huge number of advantages already even in comparison to Advanced Marauder.
But then look, what does the Basilisk get. A whole 25hp and Gas that is instantly rendered useless. Sorry, that sucks shit. Stealth makes so much more sense than gas, and for all I care you could completely trash the whole gas idea if the stealth idea came to fruitition.
Seriously think it over, anyone on the dev team who sees this. Im not saying it should absolutely be required to be done, and Im not trying to tell you guys how to balance the game, but Advanced Basilisks are not advanced by any means.
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No alien shall have an unconditional passive radar immunity !
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Yea but if Humans travel and cover eachother like they should in the first place, a Basilisk lurking in the shadows wont be able to do shit anyway. Not like they dont stick out like a sore thumb being nearly bright white too.
Either way, take my post with a grain of salt. I just want to see something, ANYTHING, besides having a class-defining ability rendered completely fucking useless. Adv Mara zap never becomes useless, Adv Goon spores never become useless, even the fucking Adv Granger's abilities never become useless. It is seriously fucking annoying.
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Adv Mara zap is close to useless against humans already : it does pitiful damage to humans with armor not counting the ones with armor AND helmet or the battelsuits.
Anyway, the point of "no radar immunity" in my opinion has nothing to do with stealth attacks but more of the lines of end game stealthy hidden basilisk that doesn't want to die.
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I'm with stof on that one... that would become a problem...
Best fix I can think of would just be to make helmets not be able to defend against gas. It gives radar already, and will help with headshots.. but it doesn't need to do gas as well.. or it can at least nerf the gas, not completely stop it.
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The endgame problem of the invisible basilisk would be very easy to solve... Just make the radar stealth only work while the overmind is alive...
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Although I thought the adv basilisk would be better suited as a support class for later stages (it already pretty much has the ability of being a mobile trapper), I like the stealth idea a lot, with the radar invisibility only being available with an OM it wouldn't unbalance end games at all. I also think it could use being a bit faster and doing less noise when moving. It is good for picking on lone humans, but as an s1 human it's quite easy to notice that your being chased by the sound most of the time.
Considering that the adv. basilisk with the extra 25hp can still die with 2 Shotgun hits at close range, or 3 mass drivers shots (both of which are s1 weapons). I don't think it would dramatically change balance or anything :P
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Exactly. And Ill fully agree with the stealth only working with the OM up. Kind of like how Jetpacks lose power when the reactor goes down, dropping the OM would reveal Basilisks on radar. Fanastic feedback ppl.
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I agree completely with the no sign on the radar with OM. I also think ADV Basilisk should have bigger health and should be able to move faster.
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The endgame problem of the invisible basilisk would be very easy to solve... Just make the radar stealth only work while the overmind is alive...
Thats not a bad idea at all.. i still don't really relish the idea of the basi becoming immune to radar though.. and I spend a good deal of time as one, but.. this could become too much of an advantage.
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Please no invisible Aliens, not even on the radar. Although the Adv. Basilisk's gas could do with some tweaking, a 100hp, grabbing and wallwalking Alien that invisible to the radar as long as the OM is alive, would be a bit too much if you ask me. It would only make people come here and post about how overpowered the Basilisk is. Not that that would be unwelcome...
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what if the adv basilisk have NO GAS, LESS HEALTH, but can wallcrawl, grab, and no sign on radar until no OM.
Or maybe... instead of grabbing, it can burrow! ... no... that would be too confusing...
Or instead of no sign on the radar, it can change its color. Like a chameleon, eh? eh? eh?
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I agree with idea of radar stealthy a.basi.
Alternatively, maybe a secondery attack that would make nearby aliens invisible on radar for a minute or two.
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how about making it silent? so they cant hear it coming?
then you could sneak up much easier.
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I think some people are mistaken about the adv lisk, I think that the gas only works against humans that don't wear light armor not helmets.
Besides the reason good players use adv lisk is that they don't mind spending twice the bp as a regular lisk and they want a lisk that can take 25 more damage with a faster attacking and healing rate.
Personally I think the adv lisk should be a little stronger in order to be worth the 2 bp it costs.
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I think some people are mistaken about the adv lisk, I think that the gas only works against humans that don't wear light armor not helmets.
Besides the reason good players use adv lisk is that they don't mind spending twice the bp as a regular lisk and they want a lisk that can take 25 more damage with a faster attacking and healing rate.
Personally I think the adv lisk should be a little stronger in order to be worth the 2 bp it costs.
Exactly. Adv Basilisk costs MORE than Marauder ( same base price but you have to pay 1 more evo point for further evolutions, so it costs more ). It should then be better than the Marauder. Now it is barely a better form than the Basilisk. Not worth the cost. If you have 2 points, stay as Basi or go for Mara.
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A better gimmick would be nice, but I doubt we will see any serious changes.
Exploding basilisk gas is a bad idea.
The Adv Basilisk is rather difficult to play as, and the gas attack is marginally useful at best. You are proposing not just to give the humans a way to completely neutralize the gas (other than bsuits/helmets, I mean), but you are proposing it in a way that damages and probably kills the basilisk as well.
Why bother nerfing an already shitty attack?
I havn't read the rest of the topic, im too lazy, so this may have already been gotten over. What I propsed is that the gas explodes and harms the human. If that seemed unfair, it could slightly harm the balisk was my idea.
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Gasses is for gasparty ^______^
(http://show.imagehosting.us/show/1596137/0/nouser_1596/T0_-1_1596137.JPG) (http://www.imagehosting.us/index.php?action=show&ident=1596137)
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The basilisk does need to be improved, and it will be eventually.
It ought to be silent when running but I don't think making it any more stealthy will really accomplish anything. The real problem I have with it is it's only a decent class against single humans, which I can kill just as easily with other classes that have other uses and don't need stealth. I'm also strongly against what I call "class-specific balances" like the radar immunity.
I think its true calling is as a support class: it'd make it useful throughout the endgame and fill a much needed niche aliens lack. I'm not sure yet about changing the effectiveness of the grab or adusting the primary attack, but a number of things could be done to the gas to make it useful for support. The gas could slow humans (all humans) instead of poisoning them (maybe the booster could add the poison back) and continue to muddle the aim of less armoured humans like it does now. That'd fit in with the movement-restriction thing it has going on now with the grab. One suggestion I heard that I liked was that it could also hang in the air for a time after being sprayed, making it a little more strategic. The basilisk as an assassin type class might be fun but I just don't see it fitting in with Tremulous's balance.
On that note, wouldn't it be awesome if the drone pounced instead of having a shoot-me-out-of-the-air high jump? Tremuloom anyone?
And, FYI: The advanced basilisk has a slightly longer grab time than the regular basilisk
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What makes all basilisks suck is the human equivalency of the basilisk (in credits) is a Painsaw + Light Armor (Painsaw + Armor + Helemt for Adv Bassy). I may be biased, but the painsaw is infinitely greater than basilisk.
On that note, make the bassy able to kill all types of humans and human structures in under 5 seconds?
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how about when i let go of you you cant move for 5 more seconds?
then its more of a support class, paralysing people allowing other classes to kill them easier.
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Give basi 25 more HP and make it a little bit stronger.
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Adv dretch would be more useful than adv basilisk any d y.
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im not saying the basilisk in any form is completely useless. yea gas doesnt work vs stage2 humans, but that doesnt stop me from breaking the heads of humans with full armor and a pulse rifle. the only real thing basilisks cant touch is flamers and humans traveling in groups. even lone bsuits can be dealt with by basilisks if you know what youre doing.
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I think I'll cahnge my mind... gas was REALLY annoying when I played today.
We were being pwned and THESE (or this) BASILISK(S) WERE/WAS GASSING US WHEN WE SPAWNED! SOOOO FREAKING ANNOYING
Everyone is moaning and making people get horny and was really freaky. Even though it wasn't very effective... ah who am I kidding? IT WAS REALLY ANNOYING! Everyone couldn't aim straight and we all died :(
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Give basi 25 more HP and make it a little bit stronger.
Get an Advanced Basilisk.
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We were being pwned and THESE (or this) BASILISK(S) WERE/WAS GASSING US WHEN WE SPAWNED!
Spawnkilling is generally annoying.
Besides, thay could just grab and kill.
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Maybe give basis a cloaking ability? Say, where you'd right-click to go near-invisible for 10 seconds, then you become visible again and it takes about 10 seconds before you can cloak yourself again. And your cloak would disappear when you grab someone or when you slash.
The basi is a n1nj4 alien. Instead of giving it an attack that has to be used by stupidly jumping up to a group of hummies, it needs something to enhance its n1nj4 abilities. Here are some thoughts:
- The aforementioned 10-second cloak
- Allow basis to toss a sticky blob, at about 2/3 or 1/2 the range of a granger blob. These make a similar splatter to what the granger's blobs do, however it's less visible and when a human walks over it, it drastically slows him down. A basi could drop a blob around a corner, hide further ahead of the blob, and wait til a human passes by. Then the human gets stuck, the basi jumps in from behind and owns him.
- A variation of the the cloak. Instead, the basi right-clicks to inherit the texture of the surface he is standing on (or wallwalking on) and to be removed from radar for 10 seconds. 10 second recharge.
- Regular gas, exept it hangs in the air for 5 seconds after being sprayed. 6 second recharge on the gas ability. Basically, would be used for aiding in escapes, as it can be used as a) a smokescreen, and b) to make all persuers have distorted vision and poison, increasing the chance of getting away alive.
- Regular gas, (or maybe the gas that "hangs) exept instead of moving your crosshair around, it actually makes you see LESS. Think flash-bangsfrom CS, or the squid item from mario kart DS: something that either covers the screen uniformly (like a flashbang) or something that creates random splotches on the screen to obscure vision.
- A "poison mine" ability. Right-clicking allows you to place a granger-blob-sized ball at your position. It takes several seconds to grow, probly about 8 seconds, and it's vulnerable since it only has around 20 hp. Then, when fully grown, it explodes in a shower of acid (like when an alien structure blows up) as soon as an enemy comes in range (3 or 4 meters maybe), allowing the adv basi to plant another one. After 30 seconds of inactivity, however, the blob detonates itself. The blob would do the damage of an exploding structure exept with a larger radius, and would also poison. And finally, it works against buildings, so a basi could go hide a mine behind the armoury to have it explode in 8 seconds if noone noticed.
Yes, most of those ideas are crap, just trying to throw new ideas out there. Personally I like the sticky blob idea, it'd be good for both ambushes and escapes.
Also, basis need more than 100 hp. The adv mara meets the mara and goon in the middle with 175 hp, and it should be the same idea for the adv basi. Give it 120 hp or something, cause it does cost the same as a mara you know, and is considerably less quick.
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since basi is a stealth class, and it most surely is, i would propose that the adv basi should have the walking sound removed instead..
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since basi is a stealth class, and it most surely is, i would propose that the adv basi should have the walking sound removed instead..
I like that idea. It wouldn't really mess with gameplay, since you still need the same skill to use one. Maybe less.
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I like the stealth idea but I think the gas is better and much cooler. But it is not powerfull enough.
Lets keep the gas but make it usefull against attacking the base. How about the gass effects buildings? for when humans build their defences next to a door you can get an angle where they wont shoot and release a little gas.
How about it slows those with helmets and battlesuits down a little.
Or it not only damages buildings but renders Turrets and testla coils offline for fifteen seconds or five seconds or something.
Make the gas useful rather then something you are curious about and after trying you walk away thinking 'that sucked'.
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I think I'll cahnge my mind... gas was REALLY annoying when I played today.
We were being pwned and THESE (or this) BASILISK(S) WERE/WAS GASSING US WHEN WE SPAWNED! SOOOO FREAKING ANNOYING
Everyone is moaning and making people get horny and was really freaky. Even though it wasn't very effective... ah who am I kidding? IT WAS REALLY ANNOYING! Everyone couldn't aim straight and we all died :(
Great finally someone found a usefull way to use the gas. Even when camping which is considered cheap you still admit it wasn't effective. Also if someone is able to camp on your spawn pads it ussually means you are screwed anyway so who cares.
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Instead of the rader immuntiny, how about limited cloaking? It would make the basi to invisible to the naked eye (would still register on the helmet). Would deactivate if the overmind went down. I like the idea of being able to "buy" from the booster/overmind, too.
Oh. That gives me a idea. How about being able to upgrade your lisk from the overmind? Cloaking, stronger attacks, spit, more hp...
And then we could even have a show called "Pimp my Basi."
:wink:
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Hello, this is my first post:) .
As far as i am concerned Basilisk is fairly too visible and way too slow to be a real threat. I really think it would use changing its colours and increasing speed (instead of increasing hp/damage). It would make it kinda more like assasin alien than it is now. And yes, i think that the gas should be effective against light armour with helmet too.
:)
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Why does the helmet stop the gas anyway? Last time I looked it didn't cover the nose or the mouth. There's a bit of a discrepency there. How about the gas still effects light armor w/helmet just slightly less because they have that advanced technology on their head helping them aim while high.
Although, a stealthy basilisk would encourage me to play as one alot more. I love being a sneaky bastard when playing aliens. The speed needs upped and the color darkend at the very least though. The speed drop from the dretch to the basilisk surprised the hell out of me the first time I played.
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It's not the helmet that canceles out the gas-poison. It's light armor!
Go figure.
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It'd be cool if the adv basi acquires the texture of whatever it is it's attached to, while immobile. You can still see them on radar, but they'd be hell to spot when they look just like the ceiling.
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or make them look kind of transparent, like how that tremx mod did! That looked awesome :D
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It's not the helmet that canceles out the gas-poison. It's light armor!
Go figure.
Either way the gas is still cancelled out. Light armor is available at level 1 though so pretty much the gas is pointless from the very get go.
I did find an interesting way to use the gas today though. The aliens were decimating the humans because of a horrible base location. The way the base was situated I could hide around a corner then zip around, gas, and run away. The humans never had time to get light armor so it actually did something. In fact, I got 2 kills using the gas. Hadn't known the gas could kill before that.
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I think adv basi should be a little faster, and harder to spot to the eye. The helmet refreshes every 1/3 of a second or something like that, so helmet should still be able to see the adv basi. Yeah, since helmet doesn't cover nose or mouth, make it so that the gas disorientates humans that have larmour and helmets? Battlesuits are protected though.
At the moment, if both teams are at s2, adv basi's gas is useless. The only time its useful is when aliens get to s2 before humans.
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The only time its useful is when aliens get to s2 before humans.
And when that's the case, goons and adv. maras are far more useful than gas, so why bother. o_O
Maybe have an acid spray instead of gas? Same anim as an acid tube spray, exept you have to actually touch the acid to get the effects. Also, only bsuits would be unaffected by the gas. This would make basis effective in many situations, since they'd have a medium-ranged attack.
I thought of having them release a mini hive effect, but that'd be too n00b. :P portable seeker bees ftl.
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I know it's pretty stupid, but wouldn't it be cool if there is "ultimate basilisk" or something like that in S3? Like a FULL NINJA L33T!
Just a suggestion, no hard feelings. :P
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I'd really prefer something that would make the regular or adv basilisks worth using, thanks.
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I'd really prefer something that would make the regular or adv basilisks worth using, thanks.
http://www.getabrain.com/
:P
eventually http://www.petsovernight.com/ and get some fighting bitches
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IMHO Adv basi should be completly silent and invisible on radar with right click making a pool of near invisible glue, and 100 hp. Thats it:p :basilisk:
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Frankly I think the Basilisk is fine as it is. I just finished a Basi ownage ramage today and it was a ton of fun. A basilisk takes some of the most skill out of any of the alien classes and that's part of its charm, the challange. A good basilisk can be very frustrating for a rushing human team especially when you have a really good rambo on the human team. You can take him down and break the humans spirit. Plus they rack up kills amazingly fast if used correctly. A human is much more likely to charge a basilisk than a goon and you can use that to your advantage closing the gap jumping on their head and owning them. One of the most fun things to do with them is to walk over a group of human heads killing groups of 2-3 in a matter of seconds making the humans go wth of wtf etc. Also if you really want to move quietly just walk and magically there is no clicking. The basilisk is best for s2 because thats when humans get over confident and spend all their money to start rushing the alein base. There's no better way to stop a human rush than to hop on that human head right as they get to your base so close to their goal and watch them struggle as you eat their brains. Basilisk can own pretty much any human weapon other than a flammer which can be killed but its very hard to do so imo.
From looking at what others have written I see some support in just leaving it as it is. To reittorate The Basi is fine as is. The whole point of the class is to not get hit by humans in the first place. Your goal should be to own and humiliate any human you come in contact with. Leave the base smashing to goons and maradurs unless you see an opening and then when the human come rushing after hurt goons and maradurs make them sorry they chased.
Peace all of you.
More people need to try the basi rampage its so much fun.
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Yeah, Basilisk is a very good tool against noobs. With it, you can kill helmeted unsuspecting humans despite showing on radar. And it's huge HP reserve makes it one of the better forms to take a stage 2 human face to face!
Now, stop kidding and go fight against humans that know what they do. And don't talk about a rambo human that gets caught easily by a basilisk : he isn't a good player if he lets that happen too often.
PS : the goal of the basilisk is to humiliate? Like, it is so much crap that getting killed by one is humiliating you say? :P
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LOL stof. I was hoping I'd get someone to t off on that.
:p
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Find some kind of stealth attribute for the adv basi and I'm happy. Regular basi is fine since they're actually pretty good at s1, but s2 is where they phail because of helmets and pulse/flame. If they faded off radar when immobile, or inherited the texture of what they're standing on, or both, that'd be great.
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I don't know what would improve this class. I've been thinking about this after playing a lot lately. There is nothing interesting or needed that would make me choose an Advanced Basilisk over the other classes.
I think overall, alien classes don't compare to human weapons or upgrades in terms of options and general fun. Its great to dominate with aliens through out the different stages and pull off cool manuevers or kill combos. Once you get good with aliens, there isn't much left to playing them. Humans on the other hand have a bunch of weapons. The armor and other upgrades are relative based on how many credits you have. The variety in weapon selection provides a chance to mix up your playstyle and find new solutions to dealing with the same problems.
I wish the Aliens had more classes or at least a more interesting class than the Basilisk.
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I never said there was anything wrong with Basilisk's grab and rape. The point of the discussion was to address the concern that gas becomes completely useless nearly the instant you can start using it.
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After all this, I have found a use for basilisk. But I'll never tell.
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If only the battlesuit would counter gas, I'd play adv. basilisk more often. As it stands, it's a worthless attack.
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I have to say, my opinion on basilisks has changed since playing with ExistentialRisk. That dude almost always plays a basi and omfg does he own some major ass. The regulars on Yaknet are pretty good IMO but they still get owned by this guy. I've even seen him take down turrets as a basi. Freakin nuts. Basi's are incredible if you know how to use them.
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I have to say, my opinion on basilisks has changed since playing with ExistentialRisk. That dude almost always plays a basi and omfg does he own some major ass. The regulars on Yaknet are pretty good IMO but they still get owned by this guy. I've even seen him take down turrets as a basi. Freakin nuts. Basi's are incredible if you know how to use them.
yeah, that guy taught me how to play as basilisk just by spectating him, he is so cool :D
but I never seen him kill a battlesuit before... or maybe because the humans NEVER GOT TO S3!!!
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I have to say, my opinion on basilisks has changed since playing with ExistentialRisk. That dude almost always plays a basi and omfg does he own some major ass. The regulars on Yaknet are pretty good IMO but they still get owned by this guy. I've even seen him take down turrets as a basi. Freakin nuts. Basi's are incredible if you know how to use them.
Even if he's good with a Basilisk, the Adv Basilisk is far too underpowered for it's cost.
And anyway, it's not because some people have good results with underpowered classes that we shouldn't improve them. I was able to score first on my team at the time we reached stage 2 while using exclusively the blaster. It doesn't mean the blaster is a very good weapon :P
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basis are fun to play as on small servers, but pale in the face of large servers. they are the superninjamonkeyassasins of the aliens and should be treated as such. darklegion however, made them pointless. the low health of the adv basi is a problem, even if the good players never get caught and the gas is even more pointless then this: :advmarauder: the adv marauders are normally to buisy jumping around to lightning something, and the accuracy sucks, but back on topic. the adv basilisks should be an instant headkill, and have the ten second camoflauge, even if they cost three, it would be totaly worthwile. they should also get a better jump for groups of humans, and a smokescreen would be better than gas, so they can make a getaway
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I have to say, my opinion on basilisks has changed since playing with ExistentialRisk. That dude almost always plays a basi and omfg does he own some major ass. The regulars on Yaknet are pretty good IMO but they still get owned by this guy. I've even seen him take down turrets as a basi. Freakin nuts. Basi's are incredible if you know how to use them.
Even if he's good with a Basilisk, the Adv Basilisk is far too underpowered for it's cost.
And anyway, it's not because some people have good results with underpowered classes that we shouldn't improve them. I was able to score first on my team at the time we reached stage 2 while using exclusively the blaster. It doesn't mean the blaster is a very good weapon :P
I agree, being good at an underpowered class doesn't mean the class doesn't need a boost. I'm just saying, the basi isn't really as bad as this thread makes it seem. The gas definitely needs reworked but otherwise, the basi is just fine. Maybe change the color so the thing doesn't stand out like snow in Florida but really, the gas is the only major problem with the basi.
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I disagree that the gas is the only issue. The adv basi is just weak all-round compared to its counterpart, the mara. Either the gas needs to be greatly improved to make it counterbalance the rest, or the adv basi should get some slight boosts in several categories, notably attack, texture colour, or speed.
Or, boost its speed a little, and make it so that it never makes any noise when moving. I could live with that, so long as gas was made useful also.
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I don't like gas, there should be no gas, there should be some else instead
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....GAS IS GREAT!!!!!!! you wont believe how many humans i killed yesterday wit gas, it only sucks if u dont know how to use it
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....GAS IS GREAT!!!!!!! you wont believe how many humans i killed yesterday wit gas, it only sucks if u dont know how to use it
Having an Adv basilisk kill humans with gaz is like killing dretches with a blaster in a battlesuit. It is an expensive way to kill oponents that only works on complete noobs.
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