Tremulous Forum
General => General Discussion => Topic started by: Captain Ventris on October 01, 2006, 11:03:39 pm
-
So, the Second mouse button is considered spamming with a Lucy? The second mouse button is there for a reason. To be used. Spam is when a weapon is being fired apart from any Aliens, right?
-
Spam on sst is any series of primary shots fired faster than a 3 second wait period in between.
-
the way i understand, spam is just sitting on a turret spamming 2nd fire...
how would you be able to get 3 second regular fire, anyway? a bug?
-
i don't see how firing the primary fire more than once per 3 seconds is spamming in and of itself. i consider firing either primary or secondary fire repeatedly without any chance of actually hitting anything (like down a long hall) to be spamming.
-
Spamming means shooting any weapon (luci in this case) in such a manner that other's can't play normally.
Examples:
-Shooting down the corridor repeatedly.
-Spamming the alien base entrance, making it difficult for the aliens to get out and/or humans to get in.
--
Shooting several time at someone who is 5-10 feet away from you=not spamming.
-
I consider spamming to be
a) Firing at (or near) a weapon's top firing rate with the intention of making up for a lack of accuracy by releasing more projectiles.
or
b) Firing at (or near) a weapon's top firing rate without aiming at an enemy, instead simply filling up a hallway with fire in the hopes that you'll get some free hits on anything that comes through.
Either of those is accentuated if the player is staying close to their base, because they know they need to make frequent trips to the armoury.
I'm pretty sure those are the only two legitimate definitions of spamming. Any other accusations can be put into the "bitching" category.
-
b) Firing at (or near) a weapon's top firing rate without aiming at an enemy, instead simply filling up a hallway with fire
That's called suppresive fire, not spaming. If an alien is stupid enouth to die to it, then it was his fault :)
Seriously enouth, I've done that some times when I wanted to keep the aliens away from a corridor. Usualy when you really don't want aliens reaching your base ( defenses down, reactor rebuilding, critical buildings missing ... )
-
Lucy spamming is where people manage to crank out almost full powered shots right after each other so that nothing can survive, which is annoying as aliens seeing as 2 people spamming an entrance camping a repeater means you can't use that entrance.
Though as a tactical note, spammers are typically turret campers, so they only annoy when aliens are on the offensive.
-
how would you be able to get 3 second regular fire, anyway? a bug?
Not charge a shot all the way. Does similar damage, yet is fast.
-
I consider spamming to be
a) Firing at (or near) a weapon's top firing rate with the intention of making up for a lack of accuracy by releasing more projectiles.
or
b) Firing at (or near) a weapon's top firing rate without aiming at an enemy, instead simply filling up a hallway with fire in the hopes that you'll get some free hits on anything that comes through.
Either of those is accentuated if the player is staying close to their base, because they know they need to make frequent trips to the armoury.
I'm pretty sure those are the only two legitimate definitions of spamming. Any other accusations can be put into the "bitching" category.
I agree.
If I'm running against a Tyrant, how can I survive without shooting?
-
how would you be able to get 3 second regular fire, anyway? a bug?
Not charge a shot all the way. Does similar damage, yet is fast.
Should beat it into your admins heads then Para, quite afew of the sst admins are of the belief the rapid secondary fire of luci is 'spamming' and thus illegal ;)
-
A quick search sould find a big long thread about luci spamming.... Some consider it bad and others do not. Although it is possible to rapid primary fire, the damage done by each primary luci ball is proportional to the charge time (have a look at the sources), so rapid primary does NOT do more dps than slow primary fire.
Some consider this improper use as the lcannon has a rapid secondary fire.
-
Well, but the slow charged fire takes a long time on his way... enough time, to wait 3 seconds, do a stap aside, and jump onto the human's head :)
-
A quick search sould find a big long thread about luci spamming.... Some consider it bad and others do not. Although it is possible to rapid primary fire, the damage done by each primary luci ball is proportional to the charge time (have a look at the sources), so rapid primary does NOT do more dps than slow primary fire.
Some consider this improper use as the lcannon has a rapid secondary fire.
Which does pitiful damage and is still too slow moving to hit anything not at point blank range. The only uses I have for that one are to kill a dretch in a small vent I'm crawling through, to make lots of pretty lights for cheap and to cancel a primary charge when I don't want to use the ammo.
Well, but the slow charged fire takes a long time on his way... enough time, to wait 3 seconds, do a stap aside, and jump onto the human's head :)
And at that point, you get hit by a low charge primary fire shot :)
-
Nah, my movement is to good, the human does not hit, even if I kiss his lipps (head) with my big mauth :>
2 humans with BS/Luci? No problem. But 2 humans with BS/Chain ARE a problem for a tyrant ;)
-
Nah, my movement is to good, the human does not hit, even if I kiss his lipps (head) with my big mauth :>
2 humans with BS/Luci? No problem. But 2 humans with BS/Chain ARE a problem for a tyrant ;)
Oh, if it's a Tyrant in front of me, I would have already used all the tools at my disposal to get some confortable distance between he and me :) Most of the times, those tools consist of :
- I'm not too far from my base and if the tyrant gets closer, I'll hide behind the turrets
- Luci jump somewhere the Tyrant can't reach
- Crouch somewhere the Tyrant can't reach
- Luci jump out of reach if a long enouth corridor ( only buys some time until I find another solution )
- lucispam while retreating to a more strategic position, often combined with the one above
The last two are when I'm really desesperate and their rate of success isn't too high :)
-
After speccing people and playing myself, you best bet is charging aliens while charging the Luci and dumping the blast on them or on a surface near them. Anything else is ineffective against large aliens.
Aliens' swipe or chomp have a little range. Tyrants are going to strafe and swipe you before the secondary fire drops them to 50%. Dragoons can fly around the litte shoots and eventually chomp, unless you are spamming (which I would just sit back while you waste ammo). When an alien is close, seconday fire isn't going to change a thing.
Secondary fire is good for saving ammo when you want to pop alien structures. If you can anticipate and aim for the surface near an alien, you can be deadly because the splash damage goes a long way with backing down and eventually finishing aliens off. Luci shots are too easy to dodge regardless of type. In fact the chaingun and luci should have a big sign saying 'Use at close range' because they just TK teammates if you aren't up close with them. In fact, I refuse to play humans simply because of TKing so much from people with chainguns or lucis that don't know how to use them.
-
This is just my lame opinion, but I don't believe there is such a thing as lucy spamming. If the game allows you to shoot a lucy down a hallway repeatedly, then its a FEATURE of the game. If its a feature its all good. I see a problem with lucy if more then a handfull of humans are using it in a crowded server like the SST servers and causing LAG, otherwise I see nothing wrong with it. If the aliens can't get out of their base, then too bad. I play all over the place and I see aliens win about 70% of the time on average. If the humans manage to trap you aliens in a base, tough. Whah.
beerbitch
-
spamming is just a tactic
just as camping the base with goons/tyrants is a tactic
both are bloody annoying still tho, but fair play imo, even if i do type " lol spam"
really annoying is noobs on turrets luci spamming, but again they dont know better
its annoying yes, but why kick people for it if they arnt damaging the base?
-
This is just my lame opinion, but I don't believe there is such a thing as lucy spamming. If the game allows you to shoot a lucy down a hallway repeatedly, then its a FEATURE of the game. If its a feature its all good. I see a problem with lucy if more then a handfull of humans are using it in a crowded server like the SST servers and causing LAG, otherwise I see nothing wrong with it. If the aliens can't get out of their base, then too bad. I play all over the place and I see aliens win about 70% of the time on average. If the humans manage to trap you aliens in a base, tough. Whah.
beerbitch
I agree. The rapid fire full charge shot of the luci can make a luci/ tyrant fight more winnable. This coming from a guy who is generally alien.
-
b) Firing at (or near) a weapon's top firing rate without aiming at an enemy, instead simply filling up a hallway with fire
That's called suppresive fire, not spaming. If an alien is stupid enouth to die to it, then it was his fault :)
Seriously enouth, I've done that some times when I wanted to keep the aliens away from a corridor. Usualy when you really don't want aliens reaching your base ( defenses down, reactor rebuilding, critical buildings missing ... )
Fine. When you do it repeatedly as a substitute for actually heading down the hallway to take on the alien, even when you have good armour/weapons, THAT'S spamming.
-
Fine. When you do it repeatedly as a substitute for actually heading down the hallway to take on the alien, even when you have good armour/weapons, THAT'S spamming.
Why is that spamming ? I like the comparison to supressing fire. That makes more sense. This sounds more like whining to me. If its a feature, whats wrong with it ? So somebody ELSE goes out and takes on the alien. Maybe that player chose to waste his creds sitting in the base with a BS and a Lucy, but its part of the game.
Do I need to buy some tampons and hand lotion for all you sissies ?
-
Why is that spamming ? I like the comparison to supressing fire. That makes more sense. This sounds more like whining to me. If its a feature, whats wrong with it ? So somebody ELSE goes out and takes on the alien. Maybe that player chose to waste his creds sitting in the base with a BS and a Lucy, but its part of the game.
Do I need to buy some tampons and hand lotion for all you sissies ?
LOL
What would you do if a human was sitting at the end of a hall spamming Luci shots? And lets say when he runs out of ammo, the next guy takes over spamming. And lets say, there are other humans near him waiting.
-
Luci spam can be secondary or fully charged, but it's just like any other spam... just shooting without really aiming / using any valid tactics. Firing even 1 shot down a hallway every 6 seconds without a reason is spamming.
There are two problems with it:
1. It can make lots of people lag a lot.
2. It gives a major advantage to total newbies. If there are 2 or 3 players spamming down a hallway and the occasional shot is fully charged (+repeater right next to the door), the skill of the alien team is negated. They just have to wait until someone joins the humans and decons the reactor so the humans will eventually run out of shots.
Pulse spam can be even worse sometimes.
BTW, Paradox, it takes 2 seconds to fully charge a shot.
-
1. It can make lots of people lag a lot.
I don't see how lucispam can cause any amount of lag. A simple fight between an human with pulse and a dretch produces more flying objects than 2 newbs spaming the luci down a long corridor.
-
if the problem is particles, adv basi/flamer causes more lag
-
More lag than 30 or 40 lucifer cannon shots on someone's screen at once?
-
What is on screen for a player has little meaning to the amount of lag that player will face.
-
if the problem is particles, adv basi/flamer causes more lag
have you seen a basi/flamer making sparks? so do I, lucy on the other hand makes SHITLOAD of sparks
-
have you seen a basi/flamer making sparks? so do I, lucy on the other hand makes SHITLOAD of sparks
Sparks are entirely simulated on client side. There's no way for them to cause any lag at all.
-
have you seen a basi/flamer making sparks? so do I, lucy on the other hand makes SHITLOAD of sparks
Sparks are entirely simulated on client side. There's no way for them to cause any lag at all.
I know, I was referring to the "if the problem is particles, adv basi/flamer = more"
I think some ppl see <20FPS drop and they think its lag, well its not lag, its Trem particles implemetnation :(
-
What is on screen for a player has little meaning to the amount of lag that player will face.
Go on a full server and encourage the entire human team to continuously fire lucifer cannon shots down a long hallway and see what happens to the average human ping and to your ping when you stand at the other end of the hallway.
-
^^^ well yeah, but that doesn't have anything to do with the actual particle effects. The ping increase is because the server needs to send you info for 200 lucifer shot locations. The rest of the lag is just your pc trying to draw all 200 of those shots.
-
What is on screen for a player has little meaning to the amount of lag that player will face.
the server doesn't send information on objects the player has no chance of seeing, which would have some affect, but the lag people are refering to is not latency, it's the fact that luci spam can make you drop to an unplayable fps.
-
Go on a full server and encourage the entire human team to continuously fire lucifer cannon shots down a long hallway and see what happens to the average human ping and to your ping when you stand at the other end of the hallway.
^^^ well yeah, but that doesn't have anything to do with the actual particle effects. The ping increase is because the server needs to send you info for 200 lucifer shot locations. The rest of the lag is just your pc trying to draw all 200 of those shots.
As far as I'm concerned, once the shot is flying it doesn't cost any more bandwidth to the server since the lucifer projectile has such a simple physics ( flying in a straight line, well it shouldn't cost more if the network code is correctly written :D ) What really costs bandwidth is when the projectile starts or ends it's movement through the level. On that point, there's no doubt the pulse will cause much more lag than the luci due to it's much higer rate of fire.
the server doesn't send information on objects the player has no chance of seeing, which would have some affect, but the lag people are refering to is not latency, it's the fact that luci spam can make you drop to an unplayable fps.
Well, the server doesn't care which way the player is facing when he decides which info to sends through the network. The player could turn around at any moment and he needs that info to display it without errors. Also, he needs that info to display the radar.
And I'm sick of people using lag either for latency problems or for low fps problems :D Lag is latency, when you get low fps, you get low fps. Very different things needs different words or else we won't be able to comunicate properly. So, does the luci cause high ping problems and/or low fps problems? If it's the later, suck it up and lower your detail settings or better : fill a bug saying that lucifer FX is too costly and should be simplified a lot.
PS : the lucifer secondary fire doesn't have any particle effects while flying :) Only the primary fire has.
-
I'm not much of a complainer, so this is easy for me to say.
What's wrong with being tactical within the defined confines of the game?
For aliens who hate 'spam':
If the humans want to fill the entrances to their base with luci-balls: let them. They're only going to hit you if you decide to attack anyway. This is a form of 'camping' which is just another tactic (a boring tactic if they don't attack soon enough).
Even when they charge into the base with balls flying in front of them, they're limiting what they're able to do as much as you. It can be a good idea at these times to let them waste their shots trying to hit you (you just need to dodge.. don't attack them until they run out of ammo).
In my eyes, blaming the enemy for using tactics that managed to defeat you, is admitting their victory and nothing more.
For humans who hate 'spam':
QUIT SHOOTING YOUR TEAMMATES!!! Shooting a stream of luci-balls down the hallway that has aliens down it (assuming ff is on) is a sure fire way of making it difficult for your teammates to do what they want to do. You CAN do it, but I advise against it.
All in all, when your enemy 'makes it hard to play the game normally' that's called 'being tactical' and 'trying to win'. Half the fun of tremulous, I find, is finding ways round peoples tactics and strategies.
Bug exploiting is different. That's an inherent flaw in the game. That can still be fun to out-do if you can, but it can be very annoying too. If you consider the ability to 'spam' a bug/flaw/kink/thing wrong with game, you CAN find a group of people who will play by your rules.. or a more balanced game... but it's fine how it is for me.
-
if spamming is firing wif out 3 shot inbetween aint a Turret spamming o puls rifl coz thay fire repidly
-
if spamming is firing wif out 3 shot inbetween aint a Turret spamming o puls rifl coz thay fire repidly
i c wut u men der bt i dun agre wit wad u sai
-
kk but in trem .2 y dnt thay take the rapid fire of the lucifers then thay cant get kicked for lucife spamming
-
if spamming is firing wif out 3 shot inbetween aint a Turret spamming o puls rifl coz thay fire repidly
wut u dont get is dat thos gunz r suposd 2 fire dat fast bt teh luci is suposd to fire slo
u kno wut i meen???
-
Orly?
i fort dat teh lu-c wz suppsed to firr reli fst and kill all da aleinz in 1 shot
-
DONT FEED THE TROLL
-
DONT FEED THE TROLL
u stuped trol arnt reel dey r imginaire loll just like da bogie man
-
DONT FEED THE TROLL
u stuped trol arnt reel dey r imginaire loll just like da bogie man
Besides, what would Trem be without feeders? :roll:
-
hye im arnt not feedng deyr haking dats y i ned 2 b admin to kik da hakers
-
I dont really understand lucy spammers, who would be so stupid to run into line of lucy shots?
Guess they are quite harmless :wink:
Well, for aliens it is
-
"Spamming"?
I hate Dretches spamming my face whenever I leave my base.
->Being a noob, not knowing how to tackle a dretch, I'll camp behind turrets.
I hate being blasted by humans
->Therefore I wallwalk (unpredictably) to avoid being hit
I hate luci-spammers
->So I avoid them, go round the other way, or wait for 0 ammo.
Do excuse me for the rather outdated analogy that follows:
C&C: I hate Orcas, they should be banned. I mean, really, I have 30 light taknks, yet a dozen Orcas can take me out?
->Rocket launchers/SAM-sites...
C&C: Acres of Mammoths?
->20 Acres Riflemen.
As has been said throughout this post, features AND I'll even go so far as to say bugs/exploits too, are to be used to your advantage. Finding ways to counter these "tactics" is part of the game (enjoyment).
The game, giving Maras the ability to jump, noob placed, forward turrets and attack reactor is the SAME game that allows supressive fire, controlling of crucial paths. The only difference between the last examples being that the former is more pro-friendly (against noobs) whereas the latter is far more in favour of the noobs.
The poor human player, despite the "advantage" of luci spamming(or any other form of spamming for that matter) will be swiftly dealt with by a good opposing team.
------------------
Features, exploits, bugs, are not the same as modified clients (aimbots etc..) They are advantages/dissadvantages that we ALL face.
-
I hate it when a guy stands on a repeater shooting lucifer cannon down an empty hallway just to keep aliens out of that hallway.
-
I hate it when a guy stands on a repeater shooting lucifer cannon down an empty hallway just to keep aliens out of that hallway.
I hate taxes. We can't get rid of either.
-
"
As has been said throughout this post, features AND I'll even go so far as to say bugs/exploits too, are to be used to your advantage. Finding ways to counter these "tactics" is part of the game (enjoyment).
And the game allows text spamming, swearing, and deconning everything in sight, that doesn't make it right or enjoyable.
Diggs
-
And the game allows text spamming, swearing, and deconning everything in sight, that doesn't make it right or enjoyable.
Diggs
As much as I like my "law & Order" The fact of the matter is that when faced with anything other than a, pre-programmed, predictable entity that "plays by the rules" You're certain to encounter unforseeable events/actions, some of which will no doubt be extremely irritating, but there are others that will pleasently surprise you.
It's this vast uniqueness that draws me to multiplayer games as opposed to the classic single player rts/platform/fighter/racer...
There's the "x-factor" - never knowing for sure what will happen.