Tremulous Forum
General => General Discussion => Topic started by: Kolaris on November 04, 2006, 11:48:09 pm
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I hear humans getting a lot of flack because they're so prone to camping. Many say this is why the humans are doomed to loose most matches. I would question whether this is simply laziness on the human's part, or a flaw in game design. Let's take a closer look at camping.
Humans camp in the same way aliens camp. The only difference is where. Humans need to camp where their ammo and health come from, and so do the aliens. For the humans, this is in the safety of their base. For the aliens it's...everywhere. So usually right next to the human base.
*Forward Base Argument: This is what I usually hear in reponse to my comment. Honestly, a simple repeater isn't good enough since that's only half the equation. I can shoot all I want, but I'll die sooner rather than later. If you devote a forward medstation you'll usually want protection for your outpost, so you begin divding defenses which spells doom to humans once SD hits. Ah, SD. The other side to this is that any human smart enough to build a forward base is in dire need on the frontlines, with a gun. This strategy requires team-whole cooperation, and seriously, when was the last public game you saw that in? Aliens on the other hand can easily move in on their own and take out a turret or two, or a solo grangar can easily set up an egg+booster in a concealed location.
Bases carry this principle too. Human bases go where the power is. So do the aliens. (Insert Creep) Human structures go in their restricted base. Alien structures go everywhere.
*Base Durability argument: I usually hear that the above is perfectly fair because human bases last longer, while alien bases are flexible. Fine, fine. I'd like to ask you how often each base comes under attack. Since, see, the aliens are camping outside the human base, their offense becomes their defense. The alien base rarely gets hurt on larger servers of 30+ players.
That bringes me to the next point. The alternatives to camping. If some brave humans band together and try to break through the alien camp, what do they meet? Generally tyrants. Lots of them. Even if they do push through the tyrants, their superior speed let's them retreat not far off where they can regenerate, while the humans having spent their ammo must go all the way back to their base.
So I come to the close. I humbly suggest either you acknowledge that camping is a valid tactic for BOTH races, or that something is done game-wise to fix the issue entirely.
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Firstly camping is optional as its rare to have a map where you are far enough away from the base to have trouble getting from human to alien bases without running out of ammo(unless you have a chaingun).
It is pretty much a case of humans never pushing when they have an advantage. ie. In S2 humans can rush an alien base and destroy it so long as they didn't feed aliens heavily.
If you're forced to stay in base fighting off tyrants and advanced goons. Then its your own failing if you hear it dying and let it run off to regenerate. Always chase down fleeing heavy aliens if you ever want to have a chance of getting a second chance. If you don't they can just keep coming back til SD and you lose.
Its the players actively doing something that wins games for humans its just that recently human players have gone down in skill level noticeably so that aliens win far more matches than they used to.
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Firstly camping is optional as its rare to have a map where you are far enough away from the base to have trouble getting from human to alien bases without running out of ammo(unless you have a chaingun).
It is pretty much a case of humans never pushing when they have an advantage. ie. In S2 humans can rush an alien base and destroy it so long as they didn't feed aliens heavily.
If you're forced to stay in base fighting off tyrants and advanced goons. Then its your own failing if you hear it dying and let it run off to regenerate. Always chase down fleeing heavy aliens if you ever want to have a chance of getting a second chance. If you don't they can just keep coming back til SD and you lose.
Its the players actively doing something that wins games for humans its just that recently human players have gone down in skill level noticeably so that aliens win far more matches than they used to.
Why would we assume the skill level of humans is going down while it isn't for aliens? That isn't statistically usual.
I agree feeding is part of the issue here, but that isn't something that can be controlled. I'd hate to think that it isn't about which team has the greater skilled players, but which team has the most noobs that decides the match.
And again, aliens can flee, you can chase them down, but what usually happens is that another alien camping around the human base will simply kill you as you chase after it.
Perhaps this goes back to feeding again, that there shouldn't be that many tyrants surrounding the human base. But stop saying there 'shouldnt' be and start realizing that there ARE.
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I think this discussion is pointless, since most Humans just aren't good enough to fight the Aliens, yet. You can already see the balance shift slightly towards the Humans, especially compared to when Tremulous 1.1.0 was just released.
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good human players will go down with aliens fighting them, not while camping :P
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You think the humans in trem camp?
Try playing the combat mode in Advance Wars: Dual Strike.
That game redefines camping.
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Theres a game i tested with a close group of friends, i told all of them to camp as hard as they possiblely could and anyone who dies while camping gets spec999ed.
its 3 v 3
Result:
60mins
no SD
alien 2 kills total
humans 7
( of course no1 got spec999ed )
the game end in a tie
Point of the story: If the humans are good campers,it WORKS, but its a very very long and boring game. If the humans are bad campers, aka newbs, humans die.
another game - humans go all out, alien camp
still the same 3 v 3
the human and alien both got to s2
humans lost
reason: the humans all got killed when trying to make their way back - resulting in a bunch of rifle helmet guys thats relatively useless. They almost manage to destroy the alien base but alien granger is able to repair the damage and dretch - poison all the human rushers. The attacking human eventually feed aliens to goons and 3 goon rushed the human nodes - GG
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servers of 30+ players are not normal
trem is best with about 6 per team
15 bsuits with luics will probably make it to the alein base
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servers of 30+ players are not normal
trem is best with about 6 per team
15 bsuits with luics will probably make it to the alein base
true that :P
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Spamming Lucy is like camping your Turrets, when met with the reply of a brainless Alien team, it's insanely powerful.
although taken from another thread, that does actually make sense
half the time humans camp they do actually get s2 before aleins, due to turret kills, and aleins being weakend by turrets, before being chased down
if the aleins keep going to the humans, the humans have no reason the leave the base
also, as n00bs tend to go to the humans, they will feed good dretches and goons etc
i only leave the base at s1 if i know the other players arnt amazing, and if i have support, as i have bad aim and will feed
but i dont mind humans reaching s2 before aleins. they tend to rush with prifles etc and if i get one or two kills as basi or somthing, then ive got a bout 6 evos handy, instead of 2 or 3 from killing s1 humans
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Uhm, seams like you don't know: Turret kills doesnt count for the team. Thats why I love to attack as dretch. Humans are standing near the turrets, you got one by headbite, and before other humans can aim on you, you are still killed by a turret. Well it does count on your deaths, but they aren't shown anywhere ;)
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Uhm, seams like you don't know: Turret kills doesnt count for the team. Thats why I love to attack as dretch. Humans are standing near the turrets, you got one by headbite, and before other humans can aim on you, you are still killed by a turret. Well it does count on your deaths, but they aren't shown anywhere ;)
It counts if human players did more damage on you than turrets.
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It counts if human players did more damage on you than turrets.
true, but it's still relatively easy to run in, get a headshot, and die to a turret without taking any damage from humans, and if you have poison, you will kill a helmetless human almost instanty.
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It counts if human players did more damage on you than turrets.
true, but it's still relatively easy to run in, get a headshot, and die to a turret without taking any damage from humans, and if you have poison, you will kill a helmetless human almost instanty.
Yes, it would work. But if ANY human damages you, even a little, they'll get full credits for your death.
Anyway, my personal analysis on the reasons for human camping is that the game is tuned for that, that humans have to camp at stage 1 if they want to win unless they have a massive skill advantage against the opposing team. And so, the first thing we teach new players since all games start at stage one is to camp camp camp if they want a chance of winning.
Why? Because a good goon player makes going out as a human without helmet the same a suiciding, loosing your money and advancing the aliens next stage. If there is a good goon player outside and we are stage 1, I'd prefer that the whole human team camp behind the turrets and pick off adventurous dretches than that they go out and feed the aliens. I would need at least an organised team of 3 good players and 1 decoy to kill the goon. Remember that a cost effective way to kill a goon like that requires that the alien player do not get more than 2 evo points in the process. At stage one, it's impossible to attack a goon without losing at least one human in the process since it's impossible to move out of the base without losing your head around a corner. That's one point for the goon. The rest of the team must then rush the position and kill it before it has time to reajust it's aim and kill 2 more humans or to flee.
Awfully difficult isn't it?
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There was a discussion about this on our clan forum a few months back regarding human campers. After much discussion, the problem really isn't that the humans are camping, its that the aliens are camping outside human bases. Now why is that? Unlike the humans, the aliens don't need to rely on their base at all. They don't need to buy more ammo, they don't need to upgrade at their base. This got us thinking, what IF aliens DID have to go to their base, or at least near the proximity of their OM to regenerate health and evolve into new classes. Wouldn't this at least help the problem with aliens camping and in turn let the humans have a chance to make a push at the enemy base without human campers? I'm not sure if this has been tried already, but if it hasn't I think this setup should be tested, it might end up making the camping problem more managable.
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yes i was a part of this discussion, and i thought a nice way to try it would be to have you regen only when near alien structures, and different structures would have different ways of letting you regen
OM- large range, regen 2x
booster- smallest range, regen 2x
eggs- medium range regen 2x
all others- medium range regen 1x
That is what i think to be a decent way to set it up, but this is just a theory
ryan also hinted at our evolution discussion; how aliens can evolve wherever they want, though humans can only buy new weapons and upgrades at the armory.
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That would just make boosters useless except for the minor poison damage.
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There was a discussion about this on our clan forum a few months back regarding human campers. After much discussion, the problem really isn't that the humans are camping, its that the aliens are camping outside human bases. Now why is that? Unlike the humans, the aliens don't need to rely on their base at all. They don't need to buy more ammo, they don't need to upgrade at their base. This got us thinking, what IF aliens DID have to go to their base, or at least near the proximity of their OM to regenerate health and evolve into new classes. Wouldn't this at least help the problem with aliens camping and in turn let the humans have a chance to make a push at the enemy base without human campers? I'm not sure if this has been tried already, but if it hasn't I think this setup should be tested, it might end up making the camping problem more managable.
Aye, that's the problem I was trying to express, and that's the solution I didn't come up with. :P
I definately think that would help this game a lot.
I also thoroughly agree with the reasons for s1 camping. 520 credits spent on s1 for MD+Battery Pack will still yield you death in 1 bite to a goon, 2 to a dretch that didn't even pay anything. And what do you think is more likely? A dretch killing a MD human in 2 bites or a Machine Gun killing a goon? The kill-cost ratio for getting those setups is roughly the same too.
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That would just make boosters useless except for the minor poison damage.
I think that loosing the booster is the price we need to pay to stop camping.
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Give the booster a 3x regen maybe?
More useful than it is now, and its an anti-camping mechanism.
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How about this?
OM- large range, regen 1x
booster- medium range, regen 2x +poison+
eggs- small range regen 1x
all others- smallest range regen 0.5x
Tyrant- medium range, regen 2x
no structure- no range regen 0.2x
All values are in relation to the current regen rates.
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How about this?
OM- large range, regen 1x
booster- medium range, regen 2x +poison+
eggs- small range regen 1x
all others- smallest range regen 0.5x
Tyrant- medium range, regen 2x
no structure- no range regen 0.2x
All values are in relation to the current regen rates.
How about, instead of the Tyrant, make the Adv. Basi. gas regenerate 2x (or even just 1x)?
Otherwise this list sounds feasible.
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How about:
No structure: .5x
Standing On Creep (Egg or Overmind): 1.0x
Tyrant or Booster: 2.0x
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How about, none of the above.
Humans have ranged high damage weapons. If the human base becomes seiged it's because they don't use those properly.
Humans just need to aim and team up. Four guys with mg can easily take out a goon (good or not).
The problem is humans are reluctant to leave the base because they fear the aliens. Those who go out of turret range ussualy die because they go sit still on some stupid place playing alien food. (humans on atcs camping on doorstep)
If the humans run out of their base early they can gain map control and siege the alien base but somehow humans don't. It's not a question of balance, humans are just scared. Maybe we should replace the alien models with big happy bunny models or something.
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How about, none of the above.
Humans have ranged high damage weapons. If the human base becomes seiged it's because they don't use those properly.
Humans just need to aim and team up. Four guys with mg can easily take out a goon (good or not).
So, you are saying the solution is to play with 4 humans for each alien?
The problem is humans are reluctant to leave the base because they fear the aliens. Those who go out of turret range ussualy die because they go sit still on some stupid place playing alien food. (humans on atcs camping on doorstep)
If the humans run out of their base early they can gain map control and siege the alien base but somehow humans don't. It's not a question of balance, humans are just scared. Maybe we should replace the alien models with big happy bunny models or something.
I don't see how a team of medium level humans can gain map control at stage one provided there is at least 1 or 2 good alien players in the opposing team. Where do they get their health and ammo? And how is it that they do not feed the aliens if they are really medium level players?
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i guess im a pretty good alien (altough most of the time im a bit confused [stoned ;-)])
my observation is : i hardly miss a chance to own a team of human campers (avg players, no pros ;-) ).
As soon as they start chasing me after my attacks and maybe move around in groups of 3 or more ppl it gets much harder to win.
I agree with what IJsje said - a few machineguns (even newby ones) can be a pain in the ass for every goon - just as long as they play a bit aggressive
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So, you are saying the solution is to play with 4 humans for each alien?
Yes, aliens can't fight well in teams so you can engage them one by one. Four is a bit much, 2 can do it aswell.
I don't see how a team of medium level humans can gain map control at stage one provided there is at least 1 or 2 good alien players in the opposing team. Where do they get their health and ammo? And how is it that they do not feed the aliens if they are really medium level players?
Giving the aliens kills is not bad as long as you match or exceed. Ammo and health are available at the armoury and medipad (you can actually walk back if the rest of the team is out fighting too, providing cover for your retreat).
Are you suggesting to destoy the balance because people don't want to make balanced teams?
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Giving the aliens kills is not bad as long as you match or exceed. Ammo and health are available at the armoury and medipad (you can actually walk back if the rest of the team is out fighting too, providing cover for your retreat).
My basic knowledge in logistics tell me that it such thing will fail as soon as the map is slightly too big ( read, bigger than ATCS )
Are you suggesting to destoy the balance because people don't want to make balanced teams?
I'm suggesting that there isn't balance and that most alien players want it like that fearing that everybody will see that they aren't that good after all once the imbalances are fixed :P
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My basic knowledge in logistics tell me that it such thing will fail as soon as the map is slightly too big ( read, bigger than ATCS )
Not really, and no if your team is actually attacking the alien base, which is another thing humans persistanly forget to do. Plus aliens have to respawn too if you kill them, making it harder for them to kill you.
I'm suggesting that there isn't balance and that most alien players want it like that fearing that they everybody will see that they aren't that good after once the imbalances are fixed :P
Most alien players aren't that good, that is true, it's just that human players are worse.
Come to AW more, you'll see it's balanced.
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My basic knowledge in logistics tell me that it such thing will fail as soon as the map is slightly too big ( read, bigger than ATCS )
Not really, and no if your team is actually attacking the alien base, which is another thing humans persistanly forget to do. Plus aliens have to respawn too if you kill them, making it harder for them to kill you.
When you have to walk two minutes to go to the alien base and back to the human base to get ammo and health, you HAVE logistic problems that will arise and make such siege on the alien base completly impossible, unless you have a massive equipment advantage. And even then.
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Stof is right..Even in games when humans had the upper hand, i never saw them being able to put the alien base under siege as much as the alien can do it with a human base when they have the upper hand (i mean on a 16-players server which is the norm according to Timbo)
Thats just not possible, you run out of ammo way too fast. Moreover, aliens dont even need to have evolution points to make you waste your ammo. Just hop around, making it as if you were trying to get them, and they will have to protect themselves..Since blaster isn t an option with its low fire rate they will use their primary weapon. Do this once or twice and every human will have to leave in order to reload
This is why there is always one or 2 grangers that manage to escape while its almost impossible for a human builder to do so.
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The problem is there is no 3rd target to redirect camping. Its pure Alien vs Human, so one side is going to push the other indefinitely. But I'm not going to suggest anything like resource collecting or a 3rd faction. Camping is just a by product of having the teams solely focused on killing the other teams.
I've been an fan of making the game about forward bases. The Overmind or Reactor could in theory only sustain so many structures but builders can build multiple OMs or reactors. The control radius of OMs or reactors should not be able to overlap, so each side has to expand. There could also be a limit on how many OMs or reactors each side could build, like 3. That would reduce the amount of camping outside each others' bases and promote more skirmish and conquest fighting. Search and destroy is more fun that rush and camp.
Otherwise, humans just need to learn how to shoot better. Its the greatest feeling to be human and playing with Aliens that can't get headshots. There is no true reason why a large number of humans need to protect their base. Human bases are better at defending themselves than alien bases.
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The problem is there is no 3rd target to redirect camping. Its pure Alien vs Human, so one side is going to push the other indefinitely. But I'm not going to suggest anything like resource collecting or a 3rd faction. Camping is just a by product of having the teams solely focused on killing the other teams.
Unless the Alien team as a mission that cannot be done as a byproduct of placing a siege around the human base, I doubt having a 3rd objective will be of much effect. I like to think that humans camp not because they like it and not because they all want to defend the base but because they have no other choice : They camp because that's probably the best thing to do in the current situation.
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Stof is right..Even in games when humans had the upper hand, i never saw them being able to put the alien base under siege as much as the alien can do it with a human base when they have the upper hand (i mean on a 16-players server which is the norm according to Timbo)
Thats just not possible, you run out of ammo way too fast. Moreover, aliens dont even need to have evolution points to make you waste your ammo. Just hop around, making it as if you were trying to get them, and they will have to protect themselves..Since blaster isn t an option with its low fire rate they will use their primary weapon. Do this once or twice and every human will have to leave in order to reload
This is why there is always one or 2 grangers that manage to escape while its almost impossible for a human builder to do so.
You know why? Aliens have to come out to do damage, they can't hide behind their defenses because they have absolutely no true ranged weapons in that state. And the goal has never been to lay siege. The goal is to kill the eggs and the grangers. You don't need to lay siege for that.
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You know why? Aliens have to come out to do damage, they can't hide behind their defenses because they have absolutely no true ranged weapons in that state. And the goal has never been to lay siege. The goal is to kill the eggs and the grangers. You don't need to lay siege for that.
Well, yes they can wait behind defenses. They can wait for humans to be softened up a little by acid tubes, trapped by trappers or simply slowed down to a crawl by acid tubes. It makes them much easier to kill.
But it's true that the best way for aliens to defend their base is to kill humans on the way, or at least to soften them up. Or a Tyrant camping in the base works great too.
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Unless the Alien team as a mission that cannot be done as a byproduct of placing a siege around the human base, I doubt having a 3rd objective will be of much effect. I like to think that humans camp not because they like it and not because they all want to defend the base but because they have no other choice : They camp because that's probably the best thing to do in the current situation.
The only time you need to be in the base is defend builders. Its no different than Alien defense.
Humans camp because their defenses are powerful enough to protect them.
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I have not read this thread.
Camping happens because people wait until SD (or s3). A good amount of the time, teams that waited til SD (or s3) to attack could've ended it alot earlier.
However, the difference between camping and being pinned in your base needs to be made.
I have seen and experienced both.
S1 humans who won't last 3 seconds against the 3-4 tyrants waiting for dinner are not camping, they are pinned.
S3 humans who are sitting in their base because they got a lot of credits that way and are winning, against s2 or lower aliens, are camping.
S3 aliens in their base are camping.
S2 humans against non-s3 aliens are generally camping.
Aliens that don't have humans sitting right outside their base, are camping.
People not attacking when the opponents are without their main structure are camping.
Now most of this won't apply if you're creditbroke or up against a really really good team.
Basically if your survival rate if you were to leave your base is over 50%, then you're camping. That number can be debated, but thats generally it.
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The only time you need to be in the base is defend builders. Its no different than Alien defense.
Humans camp because their defenses are powerful enough to protect them.
Humans camp in their base to avoid feeding and losing money against opponents stronger than them. When that happens, I like them there because it means fewer goons and tyrants between me and the alien base.
It probably means they won't get much better though. But what effect did you expect the death cry of thousands of players howling to the winds "Stop feeding or I'll get you kicked!" would have on the play style of the newbies?
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Game is for fun, let people have fun instead of camping
Camping is soooo boring =/
so what's better, going down without having fun, or going down with fun?
Going down without killing any aliens, or going down with some aliens
And yes, I agree with you that if a person keeps dying, he shouldn't go out, but that doesn't mean to EVERYONE. I can sometimes kill a goon outside the base and when I go out, people are like "DON'T GO OUTSIDE!"
And when I kill the goon, they don't say anything.
I'm not saying I'm a good player, but I'm just saying that just because one person goes out and feed, the others shouldn't be camping.
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The gameplay design wants humans to camp. Reasons for this are as clear as water:
- Human's weapons can kill from long distances while alien weapons can't. So, aliens must go into humans to get the kill.
- Humans heal inside their base. Aliens heal everywhere. So humans are forced to return to base each short time, while aliens can just sit around enemy's base.
- Humans run out of ammo, and reload it at their base. Aliens don't run out of ammo. Again, they need to get base constantly. Not only that, if we consider healing and ammo issues together, it makes the conclusion that human team is much stronger when being inside their base, while the strentgh won by the alien team when staying at base is not relevant.
- Aliens can evolve (almost) everywhere. Humans must go base to trade.
- Aliens can plant eggs almost everywhere, spawn and be ready to attack. Human spawns must be at base. They could put a repeater, yes, but the just spawned guy won't be able of buying the weapons he needs to survive.
In short. The design makes the aliens the attackers and the human the defenders. Even if the human team gets stronger with the accumulated credits there's a strong base dependency.
EDIT: Please, notice that I'm never saying that this is a design flaw, nor something I'd like to see changed. I just say that blaming human team for camping is not fair. Cause that's what they are supposed to do with the resources they are given.
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I partially agree with Jal.
As most know, I don't camp...ever.
I just can't do it.
But lets look at this.
While alien bases arent nearly as deadly as human bases can be, aliens have the oportunity to spread and eggspam.
So even when the human team teams up and goes on a mission to kill the alien base, there is always a fulltime granger making sure that aliens don't run out of eggs and a temp OM.
Here's what happened yesterday.
Equally good teams on both sides.
Hummies rush the second teh game starts while a builder stays behind and makes a good base.
We kill OM half a dozen times and about 20 eggs.
Feeding on aliens in the meanwhile, we get s2.
So it's pulse/jet/nade time.
We keep doing the rush and chase.
Allong come Adv maras so we know we have to hurry.
So we go for grangers/eggs/OM only.
2 mins later tyrants rush our base and whoop ass.
GG
A similar scenario CAN NOT happen to humans.
Had we all sat base, we would have had a chance to win and defend our base.
Now heres the thing. That game was one of the more fun games in a while, even with the loss.
So all skill equal, aliens are more powerfull on a decent map the second they hit S3. Regardles how agressive the humans play.
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So all skill equal, aliens are more powerfull on a decent map the second they hit S3. Regardles how agressive the humans play.
Wrong, the Humans are the strongest team in Tremulous. Teamplaying Humans are no match for the Aliens, period.
And on this whole camping thing; the only reason the Humans are succesfull at camping, is because the Aliens lack the common sense to realize that if you don't attack the camping Humans, there is nothing for them to camp for.
If the Humans start camping, which they mostly do, just have the Alien team sit around their Overmind for 5 minutes, and the Humans are bound to show up at your base.
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Lava,
teamplaying hummies have a sure chance on winning on 2 maps only;
Tremor and ATCS.
Any other map (uncreation excluded for obvious reasons) humans chances decrease massivly with a full-time granger.
I have no problems taking down 3 decent bsuit/chain/lucy hummies or 2 pros with a tyrant on a FF server with low ping.
Give me a granger thats going to take care of base and not build like he's a human and the game is ours.
Note that I'm only a decent tyrant....not a great one.
So I'm not saying thats impossible to win as human, but it certanly requres a bit more then teamplaying humans.
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The absolute best human game have ever seen was on Nexus. The humans on that server that day were playing very well together. At S3, they did a coordinated charge against the base of a decent alien team (IE, a team that would have won eventually in SD). They attacked from both entrances at the same time, completely overwhelming the alien defenders. No aliens survived, not even your magical granger.
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It seems once the aliens get S3, it's a long road to victory( tyrants kick too much arse)
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PHREAK, you obviously have never played Tremulous with a good Human team, because I can think of no other reason why you would ventilate such nonsense. No, and I repeat, No Alien team can ever win over properly teamplaying Humans, simply because Humans can concentrate all their fire on one Alien, giving a 400HP Tyrant a lifespan of about 3 seconds. Not only that, the Humans have the advantage that they can sit relatively safe behind their defenses for a while. Aliens aren't that good at concentrating fire (or slashes, if you will), and they certainly don't have any bases in which they can comfortably sit, and a few Grangers ain't gonna do a terrible lot about that, they can only make the Alien failure come a bit later. Also, at the end of the betatesting stages of Tremulous, it became quite apparent that the Humans were the most powerful team, not the Aliens. And since I still think the best Tremulous players are the ones in the betas, I rather go by what I saw there, and not by what I see in the current Tremulous games, where 80% of the players is comprised of brainless cannon- or clawfodder.
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Was it common for most, if not all, beta testers to utilize ground headshotting?
Believe me when I say this makes a difference. Humans just get wiped out by very skilled dretches at s1, and this advantage carries on through til humans get s2. If aliens can get close to or have s3 before humans get s2, it is hard to pull off a human victory (at s2) no matter how well the team works together. The only real chance s2 humans have to win (at s2) against s3 aliens is if aliens were to run out of evos. Sure if humans have chainsuits and lucies they can overpower tyrants with numbers, but if they never make it to that stage because aliens put it away before they get there, then humans can't be "overpowered."
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You do realize that a dretch dies from 5 bullets. That means you need an accuracy of less than 20% to kill the dretch in one clip, and humans can move too. They don't need to stand still while shooting (like most humans think) making getting a headshot even harder.
Very skilled humans kill very skilled dretches at s1.
Btw PHREAK, I don't have any trouble machinegunning down a decent tyrant. Just because you killed two bsuits and labelled them pro doesn't mean anything.
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Btw PHREAK, I don't have any trouble machinegunning down a decent tyrant. Just because you killed two bsuits and labelled them pro doesn't mean anything.
LOL...
You're just cute.
If you manage to machinegun me in a 1v1 I'll give you $100.
I'll even let you wear a Bsuit.
Hell, grab a chain-gun just to make it interesting.
Bring a friend as well while we are at it.
If you live, I swear I'll pay up.
Machinegunning simply means that someone did the damage and you cought the tyrant running. A moron tyrant that is.
IMO, any tyrant running is a dead tyrant....but thats off topic now.
So while you might have gotten the running tyrant with a machine gun while sitting on the turret, chances are he wasn't full health and someone got paid for you killing him.
And while you are right about a dretch needing 5 hits out of the clip, a good dretch will not even let you shoot half of that clip before he kills you.
98 dmg to the head and a granger spit can finish you off.
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It takes nearly 3 full clips with 100% accuracy to machine gun a tyrant. And don't wait too much between shots because a Tyrant regens 14 HP/s if you leave him alone for too long, it doesn't take much for him to regen enouth health that you have to put another full clip into him.
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TBH, I think human team camping has no relation with what team is stronger. It's just about the resources each team is given. Using a football comparison, aliens would be Barcelona while humans would be Chelsea. One has the best resources to play offensive while the other has the best resources to play defensive. This doesn't make one weaker than the other.
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No, i'm talking a 400 HP tyrant. And yes it takes 3 clips, and getting 100% accuracy on a tyrant is not that much of a problem I hope...
A dretch headshot is 96 hp and the dretch will never get that close.
Your challange is accepted. 8)
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I can bullfight a dragoon without getting hurt almost indefinitely, or at least until one of 3 things happen.
1: He dies
2: I slip up and die
3: His friend comes along and kills me
No matter how hard I try, I can't dodge one without running into the other.
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I don't think you play against good enough dretches. I mean some of them can kill you before you can get half your clip off, not because you suck, but because of hiding and ambushing.
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No, i'm talking a 400 HP tyrant. And yes it takes 3 clips, and getting 100% accuracy on a tyrant is not that much of a problem I hope...
A dretch headshot is 96 hp and the dretch will never get that close.
Your challange is accepted. 8)
I go by either CU|Phreak or [Nex]Phreak and I'm on either Boom Boom, Beer Garden or AKKA.
I'm on late nights EST.
I'll make sure to record this, just in case you forget how fast my tyrant kills.