Tremulous Forum

General => General Discussion => Topic started by: next_ghost on November 12, 2006, 10:44:02 pm

Title: Medistation usage priority?
Post by: next_ghost on November 12, 2006, 10:44:02 pm
Just a quick yes/no question: Should players who are poisoned or just come for a medkit with full health get one-time priority for using medistation over others? That means they get cured (not healed) or receive medkit and medistation resumes healing the previous occupier.
Title: Medistation usage priority?
Post by: Lava Croft on November 13, 2006, 12:02:07 am
Nope. First come, first serve.
Title: Medistation usage priority?
Post by: Seffylight on November 13, 2006, 12:04:12 am
Quote from: "Lava Croft"
Nope. First come, first serve.

Seconded.
Title: Medistation usage priority?
Post by: rasz_pl on November 13, 2006, 12:12:08 am
btw you can build turbo medistations, just build 2-4 next to each other :) you can use 2-4 medis standing in the middle

btw next, instead of messing with medi track vote and ready bugs, those are only in your game.qvm build :(
Title: Medistation usage priority?
Post by: WolfWings ShadowFlight on November 13, 2006, 12:53:41 am
Or my personal preference.

Medipad's only hand out medikits, and don't actually heal themselves. Just prevent them from handing on a new needle while you're under the influence of another needle.

Bam, no more gridlock at the medpad, but healing still takes a'while.
Title: Medistation usage priority?
Post by: Basilisco on November 13, 2006, 12:59:16 am
I`m going to say Yes.
But only for critically poisoned humans, which are in fact about to die. It doesn't happen that often, but it wouldn't hurt anyone to have it there :)
Title: Medistation usage priority?
Post by: kevlarman on November 13, 2006, 01:37:58 am
Quote from: "WolfWings ShadowFlight"
Or my personal preference.

Medipad's only hand out medikits, and don't actually heal themselves. Just prevent them from handing on a new needle while you're under the influence of another needle.

Bam, no more gridlock at the medpad, but healing still takes a'while.
the gridlock isn't from people healing in the majority of all cases, it's from people who stand on the medistation while they buy their equipment through the menu, taking 5 minutes to decide what they want to buy. the solution: bug everyone you know to make buy binds :P
Title: Medistation usage priority?
Post by: PIE on November 13, 2006, 02:58:07 am
Or don't build the pad by the armory...

If everyone just used their medkit to heal, and then just walked over the medpad the world would be nicer...
Title: Medistation usage priority?
Post by: rasz_pl on November 13, 2006, 03:04:26 am
Quote from: "kevlarman"
Quote from: "WolfWings ShadowFlight"
Or my personal preference.

Medipad's only hand out medikits, and don't actually heal themselves. Just prevent them from handing on a new needle while you're under the influence of another needle.

Bam, no more gridlock at the medpad, but healing still takes a'while.
the gridlock isn't from people healing in the majority of all cases, it's from people who stand on the medistation while they buy their equipment through the menu, taking 5 minutes to decide what they want to buy. the solution: bug everyone you know to make buy binds :P


or just SHOOT them? yes, its that simple
Title: Medistation usage priority?
Post by: |Nex|TrEmMa on November 13, 2006, 03:31:43 am
No you decon armory and build another medistation.
Title: Medistation usage priority?
Post by: Odin on November 13, 2006, 03:38:30 am
Why not just prioritize healing to the weakest player? It heals the weakest player on the pad to full, then picks the next weakest. If someone weaker than you steps on the pad while you're healing, it stops healing you.
Title: Medistation usage priority?
Post by: kozak6 on November 13, 2006, 05:15:30 am
Quote from: "PIE"
Or don't build the pad by the armory...


When I was still a wee nubber, at first I thought the medipad and the armory was all one big construction.
Title: Medistation usage priority?
Post by: Undeference on November 13, 2006, 06:39:12 am
It's always fun dying from poison on the medistat. Just get svn revision 836 and set g_shove way up (optionally set g_knockback really high for some fun).

Alternatively, since the medistat is essentially equivalent to the booster and the booster lets everyone touching it get poison immediately, the medistat could heal everyone on it at once.
Title: Medistation usage priority?
Post by: David on November 13, 2006, 08:08:57 am
I think the just give out medi kits idea is best.
Title: Medistation usage priority?
Post by: DASPRiD on November 13, 2006, 09:24:57 am
Quote from: "Undeference"
(optionally set g_knockback really high for some fun).


Negative knockback (called grabback ;P) is very funny :D
Title: Medistation usage priority?
Post by: Ingar on November 13, 2006, 09:46:38 am
Quote from: "Odin"
Why not just prioritize healing to the weakest player? It heals the weakest player on the pad to full, then picks the next weakest. If someone weaker than you steps on the pad while you're healing, it stops healing you.

If I remember my class on thread scheduling correctly, this can lead to starvation, when you sit on the medipad with 90 health and more damaged players keep coming in, you'll never get fixed.
Personally, I just move from the medipad when I hear someone dying from
poison.
Title: Medistation usage priority?
Post by: Neo on November 13, 2006, 10:22:42 am
Well it could just give out new medkits to people that don't have them that are waiting, unless they are already healing with one. That way they can heal up while they wait.

Or just drop a nade, 100% guaranteed to clear a roadblock at human base, except for the nooby who can't figure out what the W key does.
Title: Medistation usage priority?
Post by: next_ghost on November 13, 2006, 12:17:44 pm
Quote from: "Lava Croft"
Nope. First come, first serve.


Sure, first come first serve. The medistation would only stop healing you for split second to cure the poisoned player or hand out medkit before resuming your healing. The poisoned player would still have to wait before it would start healing him.

Timeline:
Player A - 30hp, being healed, no medkit
Player B - 60hp, poisoned, no medkit
Player C - 100hp, no medkit

1) player A (30hp) is being healed (0.25 seconds)
2) player B (60hp, poisoned) steps on medistation, gets cured and receives 1hp, player A (35hp) waits (0.05 seconds)
3) medistation resumes healing player A (35hp), player B (61hp) waits (0.6 seconds)
4) player C (100hp) steps on medistation, receives medkit, players A (47hp) and B (61hp) wait (0.05 seconds)
5) medistation resumes healing player A (47hp), player B (61hp) waits, player C buys ammo and returns to fight (2.65 seconds)
6) player A (100hp) is fully healed, receives medkit, medistation starts healing player B (61hp)
and so on...

I don't think that setting priority based on health left is a good idea. In the end, medistation would slow down to heal everyone at the same time. However, I think it should ignore players who have active medkit.

Quote from: "rasz_pl"
btw you can build turbo medistations, just build 2-4 next to each other :) you can use 2-4 medis standing in the middle

btw next, instead of messing with medi track vote and ready bugs, those are only in your game.qvm build :(


As far as I can tell they appear to be client-side. Maybe some kind of protocol mismatch with SVN game.qvm. Full SVN release (both server and client) might fix them. Or it might be some glitch in the new TJW configstring code, because votes are set and cancelled by configstrings...
Title: Medistation usage priority?
Post by: next_ghost on November 13, 2006, 07:40:21 pm
Quote from: "next_ghost"
Quote from: "rasz_pl"
btw you can build turbo medistations, just build 2-4 next to each other :) you can use 2-4 medis standing in the middle

btw next, instead of messing with medi track vote and ready bugs, those are only in your game.qvm build :(


As far as I can tell they appear to be client-side. Maybe some kind of protocol mismatch with SVN game.qvm. Full SVN release (both server and client) might fix them. Or it might be some glitch in the new TJW configstring code, because votes are set and cancelled by configstrings...


Ahhhh, scratch that, TJW messed the SV_SendConfigString() function up. It doesn't send empty configstrings while game code sets CS_*VOTE_TIME configstring to "" when vote is cleared :roll:

And the missing ready status is also interesting. There can be up to 64 clients but the server will only send ready status for clients with clientnum 0 through 15... See game/g_main.c line 1730 (vanilla SVN840)...
Title: Medistation usage priority?
Post by: techhead on November 13, 2006, 08:11:52 pm
I have most of my health, i.e. 50-80 range, I hop off the meditation when I see a teammate incoming.
If I don't see the healing field, I hop back on.
This way, if someone needs it more than me, they can have it.
Title: Medistation usage priority?
Post by: pyrax on November 13, 2006, 10:43:32 pm
This topic seems to further the idea that playing humans requires teamwork.  That is to say, people shouldn't hog the medpad when someone dying from poison is standing next to them.
Title: Medistation usage priority?
Post by: Lava Croft on November 14, 2006, 08:11:49 am
People should not be near a MedPad when they aren't hurt at all. I see too many Humans keeping the MedPad occupied for the moment that some Alien might attack their base and they might lose HP. Like pyrax said, use some common sense, and stand aside when a heavily hurt teammate comes running to the MedPad.
Title: Medistation usage priority?
Post by: IJsje on November 14, 2006, 09:58:58 am
Just build two medistations...
Title: Medistation usage priority?
Post by: rasz_pl on November 14, 2006, 08:54:46 pm
or just SHOOT them ! :P
Title: Medistation usage priority?
Post by: Odin on November 14, 2006, 09:08:22 pm
Quote from: "next_ghost"
I don't think that setting priority based on health left is a good idea. In the end, medistation would slow down to heal everyone at the same time. However, I think it should ignore players who have active medkit.

My suggestion was just like this. However, it would heal the weakest player all the way to 100, then heal the next weakest. If someone ever weaker gets on the medistation, it stops and heals him to 100 instead.
Title: Medistation usage priority?
Post by: rasz_pl on November 14, 2006, 11:20:14 pm
Quote from: "Odin"
Quote from: "next_ghost"
I don't think that setting priority based on health left is a good idea. In the end, medistation would slow down to heal everyone at the same time. However, I think it should ignore players who have active medkit.

My suggestion was just like this. However, it would heal the weakest player all the way to 100, then heal the next weakest. If someone ever weaker gets on the medistation, it stops and heals him to 100 instead.


weak deserve only death, its survival of the fittest !
Title: Medistation usage priority?
Post by: Lava Croft on November 15, 2006, 12:10:21 am
Quote from: "IJsje"
Just build two medistations...

That would require me to ditch a defensive structure, just to build 2 MedPads? No way.
Title: Medistation usage priority?
Post by: holyknight on November 15, 2006, 12:32:15 am
why don't med just heal EVERYONE on it?
Title: Medistation usage priority?
Post by: rasz_pl on November 15, 2006, 02:01:14 am
Quote from: "holyknight"
why don't med just heal EVERYONE on it?


why it takes 35 seconds to take another booster?
Title: Medistation usage priority?
Post by: Xonya on November 15, 2006, 12:05:53 pm
Quote from: "Ingar"
Quote from: "Odin"
Why not just prioritize healing to the weakest player? It heals the weakest player on the pad to full, then picks the next weakest. If someone weaker than you steps on the pad while you're healing, it stops healing you.

If I remember my class on thread scheduling correctly, this can lead to starvation, when you sit on the medipad with 90 health and more damaged players keep coming in, you'll never get fixed.
Personally, I just move from the medipad when I hear someone dying from
poison.


Yeah.. I think that is only good way to deal with medpad. To give room for poisoned ppl. Unfortunately have died my self becourse everyone aren't so thoughtful  :(  

Odin idea is good also, but starvation could be a problem. It might be avoidable, just heal the person who is on medpad and then just start to heal most damaged.. (edit; just like u said later) And those who have gaming eye just need to make room for poisoned ppl like before...
Title: Medistation usage priority?
Post by: Lava Croft on November 15, 2006, 03:14:50 pm
Why suggest all these changes, while it is crystal clear these annoyances are purely caused by a lack of common sense, widely referred to as teamplay?
Title: Medistation usage priority?
Post by: IJsje on November 15, 2006, 05:34:35 pm
Quote from: "Lava Croft"
Quote from: "IJsje"
Just build two medistations...

That would require me to ditch a defensive structure, just to build 2 MedPads? No way.


You mostly get away with it. Especialy if you have only one front to cover (like on atcs). It allows you to have more players shooting. And really, one extra turret is not that much to give up for faster healing.
Title: Medistation usage priority?
Post by: kevlarman on November 15, 2006, 06:28:42 pm
Quote from: "IJsje"
It allows you to have more players shooting.
i stopped reading right there.
Title: Medistation usage priority?
Post by: IJsje on November 15, 2006, 09:57:21 pm
Quote from: "kevlarman"
Quote from: "IJsje"
It allows you to have more players shooting.
i stopped reading right there.


So?
Title: Medistation usage priority?
Post by: holyknight on November 16, 2006, 11:28:56 pm
Quote from: "rasz_pl"
Quote from: "holyknight"
why don't med just heal EVERYONE on it?


why it takes 35 seconds to take another booster?

because its a bug where you can't retake your poison until the poison is gone
Title: Medistation usage priority?
Post by: Stof on November 17, 2006, 09:28:35 am
Quote from: "holyknight"
Quote from: "rasz_pl"
Quote from: "holyknight"
why don't med just heal EVERYONE on it?


why it takes 35 seconds to take another booster?

because its a bug where you can't retake your poison until the poison is gone

Let me delete that double post for you. Here it's done.

Well, that booster thing might be considered a bug, bug if you look at the source code ( specificaly tremulous.h ), you'll find those cute little lines of code :
Code: [Select]
#define BOOSTER_INTERVAL            30000 //time in msec between uses (per player)
#define BOOSTER_REGEN_MOD           2.0f
#define BOOST_TIME                  30000

And thus it is not a bug, it is a feature :D

Edit, and now, for an easy to implement medipack suggestion which will solve the current problem, and give a very small boost for humans : medistation queue is only for health point regen. On the other hand, even if the medistation is healing someone, you can still use it to get cured of poison or to get a new medikit. It will continue healing the player that was using it at the same time.
Title: Medistation usage priority?
Post by: rasz_pl on November 17, 2006, 10:34:23 am
Quote from: "holyknight"
Quote from: "rasz_pl"
Quote from: "holyknight"
why don't med just heal EVERYONE on it?


why it takes 35 seconds to take another booster?

because its a bug where you can't retake your poison until the poison is gone


https://bugzilla.icculus.org/show_bug.cgi?id=2917

"The one we all refer to as God":
>That's not a bug, it's by design.
Title: Medistation usage priority?
Post by: Undeference on November 17, 2006, 01:00:53 pm
Who says the design can't be a bug?
I do think that if the medistat gets "improvements", so should the booster (like killing aliens that stand on it for too long).
Title: Medistation usage priority?
Post by: holyknight on November 17, 2006, 11:32:30 pm
well I do heard it was a bug in a server I was playing...

also, why don't it be where you buy medkit for free like buying ammunition? How about when you buy ammunition, you get med too? Because that's what my brother thought at first until i explained it and laughed at him and when he beat me up... heh...