Tremulous Forum
General => General Discussion => Topic started by: Kaleo on November 17, 2006, 11:36:46 am
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There should be a single player game for Trmoulous 2.
I'd be happy to write a script for it!
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The script or even the maps aren t the hardest part of a story mode...The real problem is the AI.
Writing an IA for a classic FPS is already a pretty tough job. However, Trem makes it even more difficult with the special abilities of aliens (wallwalking, multiple jumps,...) and the use of buildings.
So before thinking about a single player mod, you will need to find a skilled coder for the AI.
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Also , how do you plan on doing the storyline? FEAR style or just 1 person writing it?
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you code I write! what about this :P
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I meant writing a story
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I meant writing a story
We perfectly understood you. What we meant is that it is easy to find someone to write a story, but it s a lot harder to find someone who will code the AI.
That's why vcxzet said "You code I write"...You re asking for something quite hard (having a solo mode) and say that you re willing to help for...the easiest part of it (the story). If you had told us "ok i will code a AI, lets have a story mode" then this may have been possible to implement it.
The lack of AI is already stated in the FAQ as a "We dont have time to do this, so there wont be any in the game unless someone else does it"
In a nutshell : "Stop asking for advanced features which aren t implemented because of a tricky problem already mentioned in the FAQ if you cant solve this problem yourself"
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Why not use the halo AI engine with a few changes it will be perfect. :D
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*david bangs head agenst wall*
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Why not use the halo AI engine with a few changes it will be perfect. :D
GAH!
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On a serious note; what about a tutorial system with maps for aiming practice (lot's of static and scripted targets around) and some kind of stats at the end (like damage per hit, average aim etcetc)
A map made with class specific structures/weapons would be cool and it should keep total newbies offline for a bit :D
Scripting a dummy to move right-left and back isn't that hard is it? ;)
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if by few changes you mean major improvements then yes, it would make sense.
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Why not use the halo AI engine with a few changes it will be perfect. :D
and how do you expect to get a copy of the halo AI engine source under the GPLv2?
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Walk into microsoft and nick it, and tell the world.
Microsoft will deny it a lot, and then I say i made it a GPL it.
If thay then say it is thay will look stupid.
Or hire a hooker to give bill a blow job on camara, and do some good old black mail.
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Why not use the halo AI engine with a few changes it will be perfect. :D
GAH!
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On a serious note; what about a tutorial system with maps for aiming practice (lot's of static and scripted targets around) and some kind of stats at the end (like damage per hit, average aim etcetc)
A map made with class specific structures/weapons would be cool and it should keep total newbies offline for a bit :D
Scripting a dummy to move right-left and back isn't that hard is it? ;)
Glad someone else has also had the same idea! :D He's right, the code isn't all that hard, and would help stop the need for noobs to keep asking questions like "how do I use the med pack/jet pack/ armoury etc"
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I thought that in the past, but I lack the skill to do even that.
What kind of scripting system is avalable in maps?
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I meant writing a story
We perfectly understood you. What we meant is that it is easy to find someone to write a story, but it s a lot harder to find someone who will code the IA.
That's why vcxzet said "You code I write"...You re asking for something quite hard (having a solo mode) and say that you re willing to help for...the easiest part of it (the story). If you had told us "ok i will code a IA, lets have a story mode" then this may have been possible to implement it.
The lack of IA is already stated in the FAQ as a "We dont have time to do this, so there wont be any in the game unless someone else does it"
In a nutshell : "Stop asking for advanced features which aren t implemented because of a tricky problem already mentioned in the FAQ if you cant solve this problem yourself"
It's AI not IA.
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I meant writing a story
We perfectly understood you. What we meant is that it is easy to find someone to write a story, but it s a lot harder to find someone who will code the IA.
That's why vcxzet said "You code I write"...You re asking for something quite hard (having a solo mode) and say that you re willing to help for...the easiest part of it (the story). If you had told us "ok i will code a IA, lets have a story mode" then this may have been possible to implement it.
The lack of IA is already stated in the FAQ as a "We dont have time to do this, so there wont be any in the game unless someone else does it"
In a nutshell : "Stop asking for advanced features which aren t implemented because of a tricky problem already mentioned in the FAQ if you cant solve this problem yourself"
It's AI not IA.
I thought that in the past, but I lack the skill to do even that.
What kind of scripting system is avalable in maps?
Icarus scripting
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Depends on your route language. As in your first language it may be the initials are actually reversed, so for them IA would make sense in common usage. English is one of the few languages that follows the word order that you have AI with.
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It's AI not IA.
Tremulous is open source and FREE. It's played around the globe.
A.I. in:
-French "Intelligence artificielle" (I.A.)
-Italian "Intelligenza artificiale" (I.A.)
-Spanish "Inteligencia artificial" (I.A.)
Har har har, look, ALL those people say I.A. not A.I. Har Har...
I rest my case.
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We all know what was ment, so IA or AI makes no differnce.
You can call it what you want so long as people understand what you mean.
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you all lie it is called
AS: artificial stupidity
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It's AI not IA.
Yeah i know (look at my first post). But if i dont pay attention, i tend to spell it in my mother tongue (French). Anyway i edited. Happy ? :roll:
By the way, double posting is far worse than typo :evil:
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While it may not be easy doing the actual scripting, I have a few ideas that may ease the process:
1) Keep wallcrawll on all the time, or off all the time. have a basic attack script.
2) No bases of any kind. Make it like Halo or somthing. There are enemies dotted around the place and no granges. To win, you pass a certain point or activate a trigger.
3) Have a starting weapon, and then, again like Halo, when you come accross a new gun, trade it for one of your existing guns.
If you have any other ideas, or improvements feel free to tell me. I really would love a single player campaign.
Ps: I opted to write the story because I love to write SciFi stories.
Pps: Can you see my signature, coz I can't.
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no.
NO.
NO!
NOOOO!!!!
:x
NEVER make ANY version of trem without bases & builders!
I HATE LAST-MAN-STANDING GAMES! ARGHWVZ!
I don't really aprove of the 1 player trem idea in general either.
I had a game i liked long time ago: RUNE (NO _NOT_ runescape)
A 3-D third person 'hack 'em up' like game. Vikings! Swords! Axes! Shields!
And the storyline is great, so are the clipscenes, but when your not sure where you have to go, the game is immediatly dull, since you cant find anything to slash.
The BEST thing about that game was the multiplayer. YEY ONLINE MULTIPLAYER 3rd PERSON SWORD ATTACK YEY!
Those days were great fun.
Nowadays i can't find any decent servers anymore :/ the game has been abandoned :cry:
BUT NOW i found TREM! YEY multiplayer online 1st person TEETH ATTACK YEY! SWIPE ATTACK YEY! CHARGE ATTACK YEY! (gun attack.....not so yey?)
Please. If you really must make a 1-player version of trem, make it a stand-alone optional download or something. don't ruin my fun with the 'play' button going off to a storyline game with no other players. D:
But, ok, If you WOULD eventually comlete it as an optional download, i'm sure i'll have a go at it. After all, i DO play SOME 1-playre games.... like wingnuts2.... been hooked on it past few days :roll: :wink: :P
Whutever. ^^
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On a serious note; what about a tutorial system with maps for aiming practice ==SNIP==
Like a server with /set cg_drawbbox 1 ?
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On a serious note; what about a tutorial system with maps for aiming practice ==SNIP==
Like a server with /set cg_drawbbox 1 ?
that only works on servers with cheats enabled (or with a slightly hacked cgame on non-pure servers)
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no.
NO.
NO!
NOOOO!!!!
:x
NEVER make ANY version of trem without bases & builders!
I HATE LAST-MAN-STANDING GAMES! ARGHWVZ!
I don't really aprove of the 1 player trem idea in general either.
I had a game i liked long time ago: RUNE (NO _NOT_ runescape)
A 3-D third person 'hack 'em up' like game. Vikings! Swords! Axes! Shields!
And the storyline is great, so are the clipscenes, but when your not sure where you have to go, the game is immediatly dull, since you cant find anything to slash.
The BEST thing about that game was the multiplayer. YEY ONLINE MULTIPLAYER 3rd PERSON SWORD ATTACK YEY!
Those days were great fun.
Nowadays i can't find any decent servers anymore :/ the game has been abandoned :cry:
BUT NOW i found TREM! YEY multiplayer online 1st person TEETH ATTACK YEY! SWIPE ATTACK YEY! CHARGE ATTACK YEY! (gun attack.....not so yey?)
Please. If you really must make a 1-player version of trem, make it a stand-alone optional download or something. don't ruin my fun with the 'play' button going off to a storyline game with no other players. D:
But, ok, If you WOULD eventually comlete it as an optional download, i'm sure i'll have a go at it. After all, i DO play SOME 1-playre games.... like wingnuts2.... been hooked on it past few days :roll: :wink: :P
Whutever. ^^
I'm thinking that this could help boredom if, say, your internet is going really slow. Plus, I love FPS single player games. And I think you think that the single player would replace the Multiplayer. Wrong. I love the trem multiplayer! I was thinking make it like Jedi Knight II with seperate applications for single player and multiplayer.
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Sorry to double post, but this may go unnoticed if I don't.
I've done a breif draft for a possible first level of Trem 2, and if you want to read it, can you please PM me?
Sorry about the double post again...
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Your wasting your time.
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If someone builds even a prototype AI for the alien classes, then we can work on a single player.
Otherwise, why bother?
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The AI for building bots is much more complicated then AI for common FPS-games. And the AI in common FPS-games uses 10% of the system resources the game uses (and 60% programming time). So building-bots-AI can't be coded as normal FPS-AI. You probably need Neurotic Networks to (re)build an entire base based on the ennemies actions, because there are many spots a base could be build. But a kind of shooting range with limited AI would be nice if your internet is down and you want to improve your massdriver-aim-skills or a dragoon punch.
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Neurotic Networks?
Don't you mean Neural Networks?
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It's AI not IA.
Yeah i know (look at my first post). But if i dont pay attention, i tend to spell it in my mother tongue (French). Anyway i edited. Happy ? :roll:
By the way, double posting is far worse than typo :evil:
Not my fault, I edited it then it made an entirely new post.
Also, I don't see the coding as too much work for a semi-singleplayer experience.
1. Code an NPC functionality that will spawn at specific points
2. Basic NPC functionality- quake 3 arena had enemies that would vbasically run around attacking, i'm damn sure thats in the source trem uses
3. Majority of the work( cutscenes, etc) would be the mappers job. With icarus, assuming trem supports scripting, mappers could control the NPC's, have them perform certain actions.
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we really need ai in trem because real ones suck
they tend to decon and tk
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why don't you just make single player 2-d game with gamemaker?
It's singleplayer, easy, AND FREE!
but... ... .. .... . . .bleh
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The script or even the maps aren t the hardest part of a story mode...The real problem is the AI.
Writing an IA for a classic FPS is already a pretty tough job. However, Trem makes it even more difficult with the special abilities of aliens (wallwalking, multiple jumps,...) and the use of buildings.
So before thinking about a single player mod, you will need to find a skilled coder for the AI.
Why not make a basic game (no buildings) but have the player run throug hmaps serviving aliens e.g. like the Q2 story.
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Although I seriously doubt this will ever go anywhere, I think alien missions would be easiest to create since human behavior is much simpler.
It might be possible to find existing Q3 bots and use them instead.
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Although I seriously doubt this will ever go anywhere, I think alien missions would be easiest to create since human behavior is much simpler.
It might be possible to find existing Q3 bots and use them instead.
you could do that, hav the player on team 1 and bots on team 2 and make them guard an area (no building though) turrets yes but the rest should be left out.
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If you want to not worry about building, make the bases have preset build spots that the AI prefers to build and rebuild in.
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If you want to not worry about building, make the bases have preset build spots that the AI prefers to build and rebuild in.
then we will all just learn what those spots are, and what the weaknesses are.
the skill of being a good builder is adapting a base to the current threat.
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The only way an AI player can play better than a human is in its aim.
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The only way an AI player can play better than a human is in its aim.
no. it is the easy way to do
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I don't think any building should be involved in a single player. The purpose is to have an fps against aliens
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You guys are really trying to find a utopic fits-all solution.
the problem is: single player mode.
the problem is NOT: a perfect sentient AI
so, let's get some basic design ideas, shal we?
1. maps should have "hot spots" for building things. like, mine data from every multiplayer game, and chart the most comon places for sentry guns. mark that as a hot spot for bots to build.
2. mark hot spots for ambushs. like, places where the low aliens would go to and wait some minutes on the ceiling waiting for the player. no need for an AI. just mark previously on the map.
3. then, all the hard part will be dog-fighting. no need for a very nice team strategy, since no one ever saw that in multiplayer anyway ;)
3.a. dog fighting can be all about hit as hard as your weapon/jaw/paws can, until you have like 15% life, then run for your life to recover.
3.b. recal from other bots engines that the personalities revolve around things like "thresold for runing for your life", "rate of fire vs aim"... not to hard to do programaticaly.
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ok, there's still the "good builder have to adopt to the situation" argument. from wich the only good answer that can be coded is "ok, so machine will not be have a good builder, ever. ...just like 90% of the multiplayer games" ;)
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It's AI not IA.
Tremulous is open source and FREE. It's played around the globe.
A.I. in:
-French "Intelligence artificielle" (I.A.)
-Italian "Intelligenza artificiale" (I.A.)
-Spanish "Inteligencia artificial" (I.A.)
Har har har, look, ALL those people say I.A. not A.I. Har Har...
I rest my case.
har har har, look, most people speak english in Tremulous.
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Even with those tricks, making alien movement at least a little sane will be painful. Most games have simple bot movement constraints: This is floor and you can walk on it, that's wall and you can't walk on it. This constraint doesn't apply on Tremulous.
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just to say but you should have some windows that you can break and shoot from. Or add some aliens( :advmarauder: gaint ones)or robots ( :armoury: alien story only) only in the story mode thing. :D
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So make it so that you can only play aliens.... and uhm make it so humans suck with rifle or your dretch will never ever get anywhere
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Sometimes I cannot access the internet so I can't play Tremulous. So why doesn't someone create an intstant action mod/release, simmilar to the UT games. That would be so cool... no lag and stuff...
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Heres something, I think you should play as a human who got stranded on the alian planet and you hafto fight your way to a human base aliens can't build and there are preset buildings but no spawns.
http://www.ptarena.net/botboom/
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or it can be just "training simulator" like ATCS
The map can be ATCS with narrator telling you what to do.
And then maybe next step to what you are saying Digi_Byte?
Or maybe attacking the aliens with your AI teammates. That'd be better.
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Heres something, I think you should play as a human who got stranded on the alian planet and you hafto fight your way to a human base aliens can't build and there are preset buildings but no spawns.
http://www.ptarena.net/botboom/
Is there a mac version of simmliar software.... some one should create some trem bots w/ this and post it so mac users can have quake 3 ai's......
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so, let's get some basic design ideas, shal we?
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An AI needs to be dynamic to be semi-intelligent and useful for a primarily multiplayer game. Otherwise you will have a situation where people fool the AI because they aren't playing how the map maker expected -- not playing well, mind you, just playing differently.
You can always defeat a computer by doing what it doesn't expect. A computer has to be able to adjust to the situation to compete. (Unfortunately, this might mean that the AI camps if it doesn't think it can win. After all, computers don't get bored.)