Tremulous Forum
Media => Mapping Center => Topic started by: StVald on December 03, 2006, 04:44:00 pm
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Hey, before you take this the wrong way and feel in game ads are an invasion of your privacy please consider this:
Owning a game server is not cheap. SST may be shut down soon because donations just aren't cutting it. I'm wondering if a few things are possible that can help us setup in game advertisements to keep us going. Can the server send modified parts of pk3s that merge with the map pk3s? In this way the server can send ads as textures upon connection and they will be placed in the map files people already have. This would vastly reduce the file size needed to download for ads because you aren't redownloading the map for every new ad. I also wondering if you can download separate sets of geometry (shaped as electronic displays) that can be merged to the maps at specified locations. I hope there is a reversible process for this so we can remove the ads when you disconnect from SST. Of course, we will ask the map designers for permission and make sure this process follows map copyright or liscence agreement. In game ads are making big waves, and although some of the player population is showing resistance this can make enough money for server ops to host their server for free, which would be great for clan servers. besides you can choose not to play on a server with ads. Also, someone has told me that with an unpure server such as SST, it is easy to bypass the ads, but what if the ads are always downloaded upon connection so you can't disconnect and remove them?
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Ok thats such bad idea;
1. Modifying game pk3s on fly wont work (Without resending whole packet and that would make connecting longer and mess up the maps) and isn't a good idea atall
2. Who says you cant modify source code so it will ignore ads?
3. Who would play on ad server since there are plenty of free ones?
Can't figure out anything more but other ppl prolly will
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People play on SST because of the player count. Sure there are plenty of free servers, but none of them have as high player count as SST. And how exactly would modding the source get rid of specific in game textures. The source affects game play, not map geometry and textures.
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If the maps had pre placed ad locations, like the boards in transit, then server owners could have a ad download and go there. however, who would pay for these ads? big places wont pay for ads unless they are pay per click or going to lots of people, neither of which you can do.
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Found this "spam" script for q3a servers, but cant make it work properly :
// This is my console spam script for you to enjoy aswell. Basically I couldnt find anyone that made something where I could have console say things
// periodically without me running something off my computer will all this crazy anticheat ban stuff. So here it is, it's not too hard to figure out but
// I put explinations in to make it easier.
// These are the wait timers, its in miliseconds so by using exponential growth you can get long waits with short aliases
// You can change these if you want to make the wait longer, or you can change the code down further with the same effect, whatever makes you smile.
// and yes, the last one doesnt wait 2500 it waits 5000, my math is bad, regardless it waits 5000 no matter what the alias is.
alias w5 "wait;wait;wait;wait;wait"
alias w25 "w5;w5;w5;w5;w5"
alias w100 "w25;w25;w25;w25;w25"
alias w500 "w100;w100;w100;w100;w100"
alias w2500 "w500;w500;w500;w500;w500;w500;w500;w500;w500;w500"
// These are the spam messages, obviously you replace my words with yours, but make sure you leave the quotes
// Get rid of the numbers you dont use, they just make the config bigger
alias 1 say "Welcome to .oD] overDose! The only server gay enough to promote Penguin's wild and unmerciful rcon abuse."
alias 2 say "Welcome to .oD] overDose! Please keep in mind, if scissors begins to run at you madly with his pistol erect, assume the fetal position."
alias 3 say "Welcome to .oD] overDose! Visit www.clanoverdose.com"
alias 4 say "Welcome to .oD] overDose! Please, be as dirty as you possibly can in here. This includes vulgar language and blatant team-killing."
alias 5 say "Welcome to .oD] overDose! Contrary to popular belief, CaJe's name is pronounced ''Cah-Hey,'' and you should address him as such."
alias 6 say "Welcome to .oD] overDose! If your lawn is looking a bit overgrown, don't hesitate to contact Captain-A and his family. They work for free!"
alias 7 say "Welcome to .oD] overDose! If you get hacked by MadMarsh, his IP is 24.130.65.98. Do your worst."
alias 8 say "Welcome to .oD] overDose! The server IP is 70.84.48.45. You must be sick and uninformed if you write it down with intentions of coming back."
alias 9 say "Welcome to .oD] overDose! Server donations are appreciated via Phoon's small penis."
// This is the spam part, also where it gets most confusing. notice how between every w2500 command there is a number, those numbers correspond
// to the alias numbers above for the spam messages. You set the order of the messages here. s1 and s2 do not have to do with the spam aliases
// so dont chage those. make sure when youre done that alias s1 and alias s2 are the same, and that no alias number (1-9 in the original case)
// is called that doesnt have a spam message attached to it.
alias s1 "1; w2500; 2; w2500; 3; w2500; 4; w2500; 5; w2500; 6; w2500; 7; w2500; 8; w2500; 9; w2500; s2"
alias s2 "1; w2500; 2; w2500; 3; w2500; 4; w2500; 5; w2500; 6; w2500; 7; w2500; 8; w2500; 9; w2500; s1"
// These 2 characters start the script, so you dont want to change them.
s1
// When in the server type the command as it appears here:
// rcon exec scissorsspam.cfg
// once its done executing you should see your first message appear instantly, if it doesn't something is wrong so go back and take a look
// as far as maximum length of the message, i really dont know, but its about 300 characters i think
// (none of the above are longer than 140 to give you an idea) so yea.
// and that it! any questions message me on AIM irunwithsciszors. have fun with your spam!
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Thanks, but text ads wont get us much money. I do have a large in game ad company in mind that can help us, but my biggest concern is getting the ads in side the game.
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OK, after talking with many people this seems impossible. But I do hope the devs can get something set up for next trem release to help serevr owners out.
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In game ads for tremulous is the worst idea I've heard in awhile..
Not as if we get bombarded with ads everywhere anyway... spam on forums, email, tv, movies, billboards.. etc..
It annoys me that the game companies are doing this for games you pay for now.. You pay $60 bux for a game and then get bombarded with ads. Even for a free/open source game it's crap.... It 'feels' contradictary to the whole FOSS philosophy.
I've run game servers on dedicated boxes for years now.. and yes it can get pricey, thats something you know when you go into it and lease the dedicated box. It's not hard to find 3 or more people to go in on a dedicated box with you and split up the costs.
Put a donate link on your website, give em a reason to go to the site and hope for the best... but expect to cover it yourself for the most part.
despite all the complaints the tremulous community admins do the best job they can keeping the gaming experience good for everyone and keeping greifers out. Imagine if there was financial incentive to put up a server... it would be like spam servers.. Would spammers just throw up crap servers for the ad revenue?
**Stops to play.. Heading over to the Penis Enlargement Server***
Many game hosts will host Tremulous if you just ask them, even though it's not on their 'list' of games they host. Typically going through a game host is significantly cheaper than a dedicated box.. And for clans, many times they will 'sponsor' your server in exchange for putting 'powered by ACME Hosting' in the name somewhere.
I think keeping financial gain out of the picture for this game will keep the community healthy and strong.
**Now heading over to the Viagra server... See ya there! **
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Besides the points already given.
I'd like to add that exchanging the textures is a bad thing. The maps might be OSS, but the creator still have a copyright on them and that includes the Textures .) so you just might run into a legal trap there.
Another thing... when i play, I have loads more to do than to read some crap on a texture, no matter how big it is. To get me to visit a site it takes more than a buzz word or an url i see somewhere.
Then you also have the problem of the textures not really fitting into the map and taking away the game fun which inturn would be bad for the advertiser as he would get negative feed back and thus negate all you try to do...
As for me... those servers I find to be using the spam-script, I will not be using.
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Please.. no more ads..
There isn't a server crisis to the point where we have to do this I don't think. If you start throwing ads at me i'm going elsewhere.
Also.. question your logic behind asking people who play a FREE OPENSOURCE game to pony up money.
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I say we turn Tremulous into a giant pop-up flash game ad. "Defeat the aliens and win a free iPod!"
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You guys and your overrating of pristine gaming environments. I said that this was specifically for SST, and it does not matter what servers you want to frequent. SST will have a large following regardless of you, or ads. And if you don't pay attention to ads anyway, why should it matter. Its not about getting players absorbed by ads, but about getting funding for the server. The ads would be filtered, we would only put up appropriate ads. And we would consult the map designers for permission. And since when is Tremulous not an environment that supports the ads. 3/4 of the maps are in some futuristic facility or another and quite plausibly can have electronic displays hanging off walls. I also never said anything about making a profit from this. Sorry for the angst, but its just hard for me to see a server Ive spent so much time on go down like this.
Also.. question your logic behind asking people who play a FREE OPENSOURCE game to pony up money.
That's exactly why ads would be a more viable alternative.
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SST may be shut down soon because donations just aren't cutting it.
Oh, no! What will we ever do now that SST cant take the noobs off our other servers?!?!
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Well i am going to answer this just for the sake of answering, because i think i know a way. Nobody spam me for supporting ads or anything, im just doing this for the fun of figuring it out.
I would make your own map, or get somebody to make there map available to you for doing this. I think the coolest would be a city with billboards. Name the billboard textures something simple, like "billboard1". Next, make a pk3, that starts with the letter z and a number (ie. z1_mapname.pk3). Just put the texture for the ad you want in that pk3, and name it billboard1. The engine loads the pk3s in alphabetical order (i think), so this should overwrite the old texture. When you wanna switch, just make a new pk3 "z2_mapname.pk3" with the new texture.
It is a very ugly way of doing it, and people might get pissed for getting a new pk3 everytime you switch textures, but it should work :P
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Thanks for the suggestion but redownloading maps for every new ad would not be worth it. That would really stop people from coming back. But I'll wait for a reply from the ad company. If they say its OK to use the same ad for a month, then this might be doable. Downloading once a month isn't that bad.
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Updated
The easiest and smartest solution would be to make ad-sponsored maps. For example, the mapper would talk to a company (or companies) to pay you him/herdo a map and include their ads.
-The mapper will get a one time payment for the map.
-Then another contract will have to be made with a server to make sure the map gets used (this is where the server gains).The time the maps stays in rotation would be ser by the server and the company.
-The map will be licensed in such way that it doesn't allow modification of it. Otherwise the company wouldn't be sure that is a good investment.
How does Tremulous get money? well, it doesn't get any money directly really. Either the mapper or the server would give a part of what they get to the project (if they are not unthankful bastards of course).
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Aaand there's always the possibility of a temporary contract. The mapper could make a version of the map with ads and not realease the ad-less version until the contract is over and unlikely to be renewed.
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... I said that this was specifically for SST, and it does not matter what servers you want to frequent. SST will have a large following regardless of you, or ads...
Then shut up already, you are on the from forum. Take this silly notion to the SST-Forum.
If you really think SST has such a large group of followers, then there is no worry, as Paradox already begged for some monetary support.
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You don't have to be so harsh, I was just asking for the knowledge some mappers might have of the possibility of this so we can avoid the problem with donations. I don't understand why you have attack my idea when I can shutup in a much better mood if you told me nicely that this is not possible at the moment.
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Just my 2 cents... or maybe $2 :D
Thanks for the suggestion but redownloading maps for every new ad would not be worth it.
No, not downloading maps when ads change, just downloading a new PK3 with the new ad textures. Should be verry small, as long as you don't have a crap load of ads. I've seen texture replacement (not for ads) in Enemy Territory, but not sure how it worked. Sounds like this z_something.pk3 thing would work, won't hurt to experiment. You could also isolate your server stuff by creating an SST "mod" so that all your ad stuff doesn't interfere with other maps. Note, you wouldn't need to mod the gameplay, just creating a pseudo mod that contains your ad pk3 files. All maps that are loaded into tremulous/base would still be available to play. No need to alter any maps. Still a good idea though to check the licenseing of the maps and consult with the creators of them.
Sorry if anyone is offended by my helping with this ad idea. I just saw an intriguing problem and had a nagging urge to solve it :P.
Now, as for those of you who think it isn't in the spirit of FOSS to do this ad stuff... IMHO (or not, take your pick) I see no problem with this idea. Stallman himself has expressed that there is room for business in free software. Yeah, the game is free (beer and speech), but what SST is doing is offering a service in addition to the free game. With no public Internet game servers the game would suck! Yeah, there are plenty of other game servers that would never do ads, but SST apparently doesn't have the money to throw away. It has also been stated that this isn't "for profit", just to cover operational costs. I see no problem with what SST is doing.
Now, as for others jumping on the bandwagon of advertising in Tremulous for profit... if you don't like it, don't play those servers! What I see in FOSS is freedom, and with the ads, a free market. If not enough people play the server then there is no money being made. The for profit ad based servers will shut down! You have the ultimate choice, play the servers with ads or without, but let each person decide which they want.
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why dont you stick an ad on the human models ass
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why dont you stick an ad on the human models ass
LOL, that would work better if there were female marines in the game :D. Unless you "swing that way" ... or you are a girl.
This brings up another aspect of my views... I do think advertising gets out of hand all too often. All kinds of subversive psychological manipulation to make you think you "need" a product. If I ever did any kind of advertising in anything, not just a game like this, I would be responsible about how I did it. Of course going back to free markets, its up to the viewers of ads to not be mindless imbiciles. I can tell when an ad is attempting to manipulate me, so then I ignore it, change the channel, walk away, etc...
I would follow these guidelines in doing ads in a game like this:
1 - Don't flood the map with ads!!! It will distract from the environment and gameplay. It is also annoying! And you will have to be careful about which textures you choose to override as the wrong ones could turn 50% of the map into an ad! Place them carefully, like replacing the Tremulous vending machines with a real soft drink texture, or using those billboards on Transit.
2 - Don't use subversive ads!!! Don't manipulate people with excessive emotion, sex, impossible goals, etc... Even though people should be smart enough to know you're full of crap, apparently the majority of our population is "mentally challenged".
3 - Well... I thought I had a 3rd one, maybe I'll remember later :-?
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I thank you for your reply LinuxMan, that kind of constructive, multi approach post was what I was looking for. And of course as I said earlier we would choose the most appropriate ads and only have around 5 ad displays per map. I'm just wondering if someone can confirm if its possible to use a separate pk3 for map textures and the main pk3 contains map geometry.
why dont you stick an ad on the human models ass
It would have your face on there with large text saying: KICK ME
I'm only kidding of course :P, you are still my hero vcxzet.
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StVald,
Yeah, you definitely can have textures in separate PK3s from the map. Just a question of if you can override the textures already assigned in a map. Or at least it was a question. I decided to test it out for ya 8). You can thank me later (have paypal, pm me... j/k :D).
Screenshot:
(http://mikec.homelinux.org/images/shot0016.jpeg)
So there is an order to how PK3s are loaded. When there are name collisions with 2 or more PK3s the last one loaded is used.
Order of PK3 loading rules:
1 - official tremulous base dir
2 - user's tremulous base dir
3 - mod dir
In each of the directories the PK3s are loaded in alphabetical order.
So if you use the pseudo mod idea any textures that are put in the mod dir will trump all. This should also work with certain shader effects. All you have to do is make sure your overriding PK3s are parsed after the map you want to use them in.
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why dont you stick an ad on the human models ass
LOL
I suspect you will run into problems with mappers, or the licenses. I seem to recall that much of it is under the creative commons license (http://creativecommons.org/). One thing I noticed in particular, is this (http://wiki.creativecommons.org/FAQ#Can_I_still_make_money_from_a_work_I_make_available_under_a_Creative_Commons_licenses.3F) aspect of the creative commons license. You may need to dig through all of teh textures, etc, to make sure none of it uses this clause on a per map basis. I know that mappers will use textures wherever they can find them as creating your own for each map can be time consuming.
It does seem to me that if you include adds in a map that contains material licensed under the CC with the non-commercial clause that you will run into trouble. There may be other aspects of the CC license that will cause you problems, but I don't know it that well. Someone at SST will want to read up on the CC license.
What I mean to say is, asking the mappers may not be enough. If they used textures that are licensed under the CC, you may need to ask permission from those copyright holders as well. Of course, the contents of the .pk3 files should hold any CC license attributions, so you would start there. :)
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Also, wouldn't you have to release the ad under the CC license?
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Exceeding the fact that if you use such a construction on a map it will be like that on any server running the map.
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Exceeding the fact that if you use such a construction on a map it will be like that on any server running the map.
Not if they make an SST mod to separate the ad textures from the main game. To see their ads a server would have to run that mod. It would also make it easy for players to clean up leftover PK3s, just delete the SST mod dir.
As for the CC license, yeah, it's likely the ad itself would need to be CC. It was stated in this thread http://tremulous.net/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=748 that to have your entire work licensed under the CC license + share-alike clause, if you want it included as an 'official' tremulous map. Says nothing about the non-commercial clause there. The share-alike clause requires that derivitives are licensed under an identical license. So if someone used anything that was share-alike only, they couldn't add the non-commercial clause to their map. I guess it would be safe to do this voodoo to the official maps and any maps that use the same license, but the advertisers would have to give you ad images under the same license.
Now if you made a few of your own maps or got special permission for a few maps, you could just intersperse those ad enabled maps amongst your map rotation.
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why dont you stick an ad on the human models ass
Slight modification: Why not have female hummies and stick the ads on their boobs? And ass of course.
Or mabey their clothes could be one big (semi-transparent) ad?
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As I understand it (IANAL) making a texture-mod would not be in violation of the CC-license. The license only covers derivate works,
so I guess it only applies if you're actually altering the map files. Of course, the discussion here lies in the meaning of the word 'derivate work'.
Also, I think it is possible for different files in a .pk3 to have different licenses. e.g. using CC-licensed textures in a map with a different license. It would depend on wheter 'the work' applies to the map/bsp file only or the entire pk3.
More important than all this silly lawyertalk is how people would feel:
personally, I object to the idea. I certainly wouldn't like someone to alter my map by putting some advertisements in it. Maps don't come free either: it takes many hours to create a good map and If I could have charged by the hour, I would have been a rich man by now.
I understand this won't solve your money problem. The only thing I can do about it is to put SST on to my list with Christmas donations and hope this will prevent you from having to go through with all kinds of crazy plans just to keep the server running.
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I'm not against ingame adds, but imo, ingame adds money belongs to Trem devels.
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I understand your concerns about the mappers and devs, if it was ever to work we'd give a share of the money to both of them.
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I dont think that in-game ads would be a major trouble. Imagine if the soda machines in the game said Coca-Cola, and those posters on Transit read "Just Do It" with a Nike Swoosh instead of "Lens Flares Are For Noobs." Wouldn't bother me one bit, and maybe even set up the possibility for a little humor during gameplay.
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What Revenant and LinuxManMikeC have said is correct.
You'd do it by making a suplement pk3 with a name further along the alphabet so it is loaded after. The suplement pk3 should replace the .shader as rather than .jpg or .tga files. Make whatever changes in the .shader
You can make a single shader cycle through a list of textures at a set interval. So, you could use that to display multiple adds for a few seconds/minutes/whatever without having to change the pk3.
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wouldnt it just be simpler to have mappers include the ads as original textures? i mean, i plan on mapping for trem when i get other projects out of the way. i also wouldnt mind throwing in a couple of posters on it that pushed the point a bit.
and as far as replacing the textures. you can have any textures in a map that youd like, so long as the texture was the same size as the original added in GTKR. the problem with that would be, a player could download the map elsewhere and miss the added ads altogether. they would see the original texture, no matter what textures the server was running. Linuxman gave us a great example of that
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I'm just going to go ahead and say this isn't going to happen. <_<
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and as far as replacing the textures. you can have any textures in a map that youd like, so long as the texture was the same size as the original added in GTKR. the problem with that would be, a player could download the map elsewhere and miss the added ads altogether. they would see the original texture, no matter what textures the server was running. Linuxman gave us a great example of that
With my method it doesn't matter where you get the map, so long as its the same map (same geometry, same texture names, size, and placement). Players would download the ad textures per-server. And as I said, I would create a per-server mod for the ads so that it wouldn't interfere with normal servers. AFAIK, if you would disconnect from a server running a mod and go onto a normal one it will automatically turn off the mod, right?
I'm just going to go ahead and say this isn't going to happen. <_<
I don't mean to argue (especially not with a dev :eek: ), but if I sound that way please excuse me. (aw crap, I guess I kinda am arguing :oops: )
OverFlow, if you mean that this will never be supported by the development team, it doesn't matter. If you mean that the community wouldn't allow it, I'm not so sure. As for legalities, as long as they have permission (either in the license or an exception from the creator) or create their own map, they can do this.
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Just a hint...
If I catch someone modifying textures of my maps, he is bound to catch hell from me. Literally!
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And that would mean they don't have your permission. Though anyone that doesn't want their map textures overridden better be using a license that prohibits altering the map, otherwise they will look like jerks when they complain. Being the nice guy I am, I would respect your wishes regardless. :) It would be good politics to ask even if it is opensource.
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I dont think it would be altering the map, perhaps a licence protecting from derivative works would do it.
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Trying to give players on your server yet another reason why not to play on it?
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I really hate unconstructive criticism.
Everyone, please consider the following before whining about how bad SST is:
1 - If you don't like SST and don't play there, SHUT UP!
2 - If you don't like SST and still play there, SHUT UP! (or stop playing and see point #1 :P )
Now for something constructive...
SST guys, maybe you should ask the players that frequent your server before doing this. Poll during a game or something. You could also try putting in one map at a time with ads and see what the response is.
To players who frequent the SST server, they apparently don't have the deep pockets to fund your good time. If you don't want ads then donate to keep the server up and running. And note everyone, just because there are few donations doesn't mean people don't like the server. Maybe the majority of the players are either piss poor or too cheap. If and when SST puts up ads, players, if you don't like it, then don't play there. SST will get the idea and either find a different way to fund the server or shut down.
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1 - If you don't like SST and don't play there, SHUT UP!
2 - If you don't like SST and still play there, SHUT UP! (or stop playing and see point #1 :P )
If this were the SST-Forum I'd even support you.
But alas, this is the Trem-Forum, so bag your shit, shut up and head on over to SST.
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Allow me to add...
3 - If you don't like SST, but have more to say than "SST sucks", lets hear it.
Guess thats what I get for chiming in on a loaded topic, shot myself in the foot :oops: . And now for me to SHUT UP! :)
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But alas, this is the Trem-Forum, so bag your shit, shut up and head on over to SST.
I thought the tremulous forums encompassed the whole community. I thought if I came here I would get some help from at least a few people. Its not about your preference in game play, its about helping other people enjoy their game play. Caveman you have to understand that you are not the whole community and you have no right to speak on their behalf when obviously there are people like LinuxMan that are not self obsessed like some neanderthal I know and are willing to help. This is the trem forum, helpful to many members of the community, and so I'm staying here.
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not self obsessed like some neanderthal I know
who could you POSSIBLY be refering too? :)
anyway. if you can make a mod, go for it. but i still argue that the best solution is to just ask the mappers. youd be very surprized how i ponder over what textures i use in a map. release a texture pack containing the ads.... see the results for yourself. its easier, plus its a good supplimental way to do what may need to be done.
personally, i dont play on SST, however, i dont want to see it be shut down. im introducing my clan to trem, and i think that SST provides a great learning experience in the way of not shooting your teammates :)
even though there are alot of things that are different(player count and build points) SSt still provides fast paced training.
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When I think of in game advertisements, I think of a particular map component, like caulk, that would signify an acceptable location for advertisements, and point to a default texture. Mappers could build them into their maps if they wanted to. The incentive would be that maps that allow some form of advertisements would be more likely to be on the rotation of servers that pay for themselves through advertisements.
However, the servers with advertisements would be limited to maps that allow advertisements, and may ultimately have to pay for such maps. Mappers could then create 2 versions, the free version without the capability of advertisements, and the pay version that has space for adverts.
I profess to being a complete idiot beyond this idea (if not including this idea!), so I have no clue as to wether or not such a modification is even reasonable. It does seem to address both sides of this argument though.
just an idea though.
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Thanks for all the help everybody! Currently this ad system is still in the conceptualization stage, but I have a feeling that with some newly offered help this will be going places. And also strongly agree with Tuple, if you are a map designer and don't oppose to in game adds please create special areas that we may be able to place ads.
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Ok, how do the mapper get compensated?
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I would imagine a mapper could "sell" the rights to use the map as they see fit to the Server Operator. Perhaps a future tremulous version could have an additional and optional server side component to maps that leave the potential of requiring a key to host it. Pie in the sky really, I'm just speculating. It would all get legally hazy I imagine, in maps that require other maps for the textures to work properly, then who's license is to be followed? Should the CC for the included map be followed? Remember, the included map is not necessary for the functioning of the map and is not distributed with the non-CC licensed map. curious...
Mind you, all this could be included while allowing the CC/FOSS side of the project to continue like nothing happened. It would just be a way for Operators and mappers to monetize their work and/or support their infrastructure.
Sadly, it does nothing for developers. However, creating a financially thriving environement around tremulous would certainly increase donations to developers, at least some. Operators and mappers would then gain a potential financial stake in the health and well being of the tremulous code base and would therefore gain an incentive to take care of the developers where they can. Assuming it worked at all.
StVald: I've said this before and I will say it again. I can neither map a paper bag nor my way out of it. ;)
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id rather die from cancer than charge for a map on a free game. nor would i ever play such a map.
release a texture pack. itll work, and your doing textures anyway, try it.
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I've said this before and I will say it again. I can neither map a paper bag nor my way out of it.
Heh, Tuple I meant mappers in general. And Knightbear: you wouldn't be charging the player, the game would be free for the player but the server operator can pay you for a map he's making money off of.
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to not waste money dont use an entire dedicated server for ONE GAMESERVER
i was running ET/TREM/CS/LINEAGE servers on 1 dedicated without any serious lag (split them up now due to more players)
host some forums for clans with a small google add of urself or sumtin
thats what i do/did to keep my server costs mostly around 0 EUR
stop overusing ADDS! its annoying, it lags most websites (got a 20mbit connex, still costs me few secs to even CONNECT to allot of websites just cuzz the sites overuse annoying adds
and dont ever find a way to make some sort of flash popup that fills your screen ingame, i doubt u will ever regain any players then -.-
if u want adds or sumtin, make your own map with a billboard somewhere that says who made it, where u can find it, and bla...
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Hey, before you take this the wrong way and feel in game ads are an invasion of your privacy please consider this:
Owning a game server is not cheap. SST may be shut down soon because donations just aren't cutting it. I'm wondering if a few things are possible that can help us setup in game advertisements to keep us going. Can the server send modified parts of pk3s that merge with the map pk3s? In this way the server can send ads as textures upon connection and they will be placed in the map files people already have. This would vastly reduce the file size needed to download for ads because you aren't redownloading the map for every new ad. I also wondering if you can download separate sets of geometry (shaped as electronic displays) that can be merged to the maps at specified locations. I hope there is a reversible process for this so we can remove the ads when you disconnect from SST. Of course, we will ask the map designers for permission and make sure this process follows map copyright or liscence agreement. In game ads are making big waves, and although some of the player population is showing resistance this can make enough money for server ops to host their server for free, which would be great for clan servers. besides you can choose not to play on a server with ads. Also, someone has told me that with an unpure server such as SST, it is easy to bypass the ads, but what if the ads are always downloaded upon connection so you can't disconnect and remove them?
I would have to agree with you 100% on this. Many games themselves actually support ingame ads now to keep their servers running, and also make some dough. I hope you can find a way to do this.
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god this topic is still alive.. pardon me for playing devils advocate here.. I do pay a pretty penny for the game servers.. If i cant afford it.. it goes away.. and thats that... But man... maybe instead of product placement in my game -- come up with a new business plan to cover expenses..
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2old2play.com is running a good writeup about the effectiveness of in-game advertising.
Their study took 120 gamers, all 18 or older and were given sports games to play (which is by far the biggest user of in-game ads right now). Using Sponsor Fixation Index metrics, Bunnyfoot measured the responsiveness of gamers to the ads.
their study shows that in-game ads are failing to catch the gamers attention and are failing to influence the consumer in any significant way. If there’s little return on investment, advertisers will simply go somewhere else. Could this mean the end of in-game advertising is coming or are things just getting started? Maybe game designers will find new and innovative ways to get advertiser messages in our face. Face mapping a McGriddle sandwich on my Rainbow Six character?
They cite a great example of an in-game situation where the ads do more harm than good.
Take for instance Splinter Cell. Within multiplayer there is a map which has a truck out in front and logo’s that will change each time it is loaded. Recently this editor fell into a situation where I told my team mate that the Merc was by the "Comcast" truck. Only, he couldn’t find, the Comcast truck, because to him it was a completely different ad!
Read the whole thing here:
http://www.2old2play.com/News/In_Game_Advertising_proven_Ineffective
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now these polls and whatnot are questionable as are all statistics.. but it's still a good read and worth thinking about..
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id rather die from cancer than charge for a map on a free game. nor would i ever play such a map.
Watch your cheapass comparisons, motherfucker.
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The only game that had acceptable advertising was tribes, and that's because you had to seek out the advertisements which were embedded in the middle of display consols and side-areas that you never noticed unless you load up a map and begin exploring. And even then, they were for modding sites or forums and couldn't be changed without causing people to not be able to play on your server.
More importantly, once you begin to get into making money off of a server through advertising, you also begin to violate mappers feelings about providing you with free maps.