Tremulous Forum

General => General Discussion => Topic started by: Norfenstein on December 16, 2006, 07:54:06 pm

Title: What's missing from the manual?
Post by: Norfenstein on December 16, 2006, 07:54:06 pm
Development's picked up again and one of my responsibilities is maintaining the manual (http://www.tremulous.net/manual). Aside from any unofficial additions/changes implemented since it was last updated, I know there are at least a few minor things that could be covered that aren't (and some things need to be reorganized to be easier to find), so I pose the question to everyone: what do you wish had been in the manual when you first started playing? Things like the alien radar, for example, or a better explanation of locational damage. I'd like to stay away from in-depth strategy recommendations, or technical details that aren't useful for playing, but it's not always clear where to draw the line.

Of course, this is only for those of you who actually read the manual and found it lacking. ;)
Title: What's missing from the manual?
Post by: Caveman on December 16, 2006, 07:57:43 pm
- A detailed description on how to set the options that are not reachable via the interface.
- How set one's name
- Explaining about GUIDs
- a grouped index .)
Title: What's missing from the manual?
Post by: kevlarman on December 16, 2006, 08:04:46 pm
i think nakedgerman was right about adding health and damage numbers to alien and weapon information.
Title: What's missing from the manual?
Post by: Paradox on December 16, 2006, 08:25:19 pm
Possibly a system of ratings, like damage, speed, health. On a 1 to 10 scale, or low, medium, high, etc.
Title: What's missing from the manual?
Post by: |Nex|TrEmMa on December 16, 2006, 08:27:45 pm
A list of commands (like messaging, etc.) and maybe a snippet on voting?
Title: What's missing from the manual?
Post by: vcxzet on December 16, 2006, 09:07:37 pm
it does not tell about deconning techniques
and how to TK multiple teammates at once
Title: What's missing from the manual?
Post by: kevlarman on December 16, 2006, 09:24:01 pm
Quote from: "vcxzet"
it does not tell about deconning techniques
and how to TK multiple teammates at once
i'm going to turn your troll into something actually useful: it should be emphasized that clicking on grenade will throw it, not select it.
Title: What's missing from the manual?
Post by: vcxzet on December 16, 2006, 09:34:08 pm
Quote from: "kevlarman"
Quote from: "vcxzet"
it does not tell about deconning techniques
and how to TK multiple teammates at once
i'm going to turn your troll into something actually useful: it should be emphasized that clicking on grenade will throw it, not select it.

and
Quote
dont push E putton infront of a reactor if you have a ckit
further more dont use ckit if you dont know what you are doing
best way to start playing tremulous is starting as human - rifle
Title: What's missing from the manual?
Post by: Risujin on December 16, 2006, 09:44:05 pm
Please include a section on how to configure the client to auto-download and a generic mod installation section (for clients and servers). Thanks!
Title: What's missing from the manual?
Post by: MwM on December 16, 2006, 10:00:17 pm
a section about console commands like voting and re-naming.
Title: What's missing from the manual?
Post by: Basilisco on December 16, 2006, 10:09:39 pm
Whatever you add to it, just make it pretty and easy to navigate.
Some people don't read it because it's a plain white html document :D
Title: What's missing from the manual?
Post by: DieFamilyGuy on December 16, 2006, 10:12:22 pm
perhaps a section on proper gameplay? it may help to reduce griefers a bit
Title: What's missing from the manual?
Post by: Lakitu7 on December 16, 2006, 10:37:38 pm
Spell out more clearly that humans need to sell their rifle before they can buy something else.

Explain fractional kills and who gets the points, thus removing idiots bitching about kill-stealing. (Yay Counterstrike players!)

Explain hitboxes of structures, particularly alien structures (eggs).

Explain placement of tubes and trappers.

Explain possibility of dretch headshots.

In general I think it'd just be helped by friendly advice about each class/weapon. Tell people that the painsaw is for base rushing, not attacking tyrants with. Tell people that barricades are nearly useless. Even just saying which weapons are hitscan and which are not would help human section. This isn't advanced strategy here... just telling people what the overall point of each thing is in the average game. Like, DON'T ATTACK WITH GRANGERS.

I'd really have liked to see demos, as a newb, of good players showing how to play each weapon/class properly.

Agreed about a list of console commands, along with health/damage numbers. You shouldn't have to download the source and find the static declarations to get such information.

More if I think of any... You're in the top tier of players, Norf. Share some of what's possible to be shared. You can't write skill, but some of it IS just knowledge.

[edit] Sudden death isn't in the manual at all.

"Poison does not work against humans equipped with a Battlesuit. "
That's just incorrect. Perhaps it was correct back in beta?
Title: What's missing from the manual?
Post by: techhead on December 16, 2006, 10:40:18 pm
The manual shows the bind names for classes, weapons, and structures, but not upgrades, like armor, backpacks, and grenades.
Title: What's missing from the manual?
Post by: SirFrancisBacon on December 16, 2006, 10:43:55 pm
...
Title: What's missing from the manual?
Post by: techhead on December 16, 2006, 10:52:39 pm
I will assume your post-count of 2, your use of Caps Lock, and your refusal to read the manual all mean that your have no clue how to actually play.
Title: What's missing from the manual?
Post by: Survivor on December 16, 2006, 11:01:19 pm
Also I'd recommend a preview of the new manual before it's updated to sort out miscommunication of suggestions.

Also remove the partical system/rotation example from the manual and put it in the mapping wiki or a seperate editing guide. It makes the manual a bit large and daunting.
Title: What's missing from the manual?
Post by: Ksempac on December 16, 2006, 11:41:18 pm
Make it UNDERSTANDABLE and INTERESTING TO READ !

Usually, i read the whole manual before playing a game...that's what i tried to do with Tremulous...but i couldn t.

The previous manual is full of "Use Button X for Special Action Y" (with no explanation/example of Action Y) for every class...you cant understand it if you didn t play the game. I couldn t understand, i couldn t remember, so i dropped it, played a few games, and used only the tutorial mode to learn the commands...i completely forgot the crappy manual. That's why it took me quite a long time to learn about sprint, stamina bar, etc...

Actually, i wish we could ask someone who never played the game to write the manual...I know it sounds silly, but an old player cant notice how hard it is for a beginner to grab the concept of alien classes and all the abilities players can use.

I wanted to try to make a new manual, but i couldn t find enough time for that.
Title: What's missing from the manual?
Post by: Paradox on December 17, 2006, 02:56:11 am
Quote from: "Lakitu7"

"Poison does not work against humans equipped with a Battlesuit. "
That's just incorrect. Perhaps it was correct back in beta?


No, poison did nothing to bsuits for a long time, but tjw changed that with his admin client.
Title: What's missing from the manual?
Post by: rasz_pl on December 17, 2006, 03:02:06 am
http://tremulous.net/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=1049
Title: What's missing from the manual?
Post by: kozak6 on December 17, 2006, 03:39:24 am
I'd like to see damage statistics (per hit, damage per second, etc, basically this thread (http://www.tremulous.net/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=509)), health amounts for aliens and how much damage pieces of armor prevent for humans, secondary firemodes, other useful weapon information (like that the mass driver, you know, actually has a scope),
and that acid tube damage is based on proximity and not on acid spray.
Title: What's missing from the manual?
Post by: Pat AfterMoon on December 17, 2006, 11:35:17 am
Quote from: "Lakitu7"
I'd really have liked to see demos, as a newb, of good players showing how to play each weapon/class properly.

+1
It's not in the manual, but it could really help a lot at beginnings.
Title: What's missing from the manual?
Post by: oliver on December 17, 2006, 01:41:56 pm
Maybe you could split the manual into like four parts:
- beginners "must-read" (explains objective, aliens/humans, weapons...)
- FAQ (explains dretch headbite, credit system, how to reach console *, ...)
- strategic hints (trapper placement...)
- developers guide (contains the current section about particle system, and more)

Not sure how much work you want to put in this; but maybe you could present the first drafts in some wiki, so people can add their ideas at the correct place in the manual.

* for people who haven't extensively played any Quake-like game before (*looks at self*) it's really not obvious that there's a console hidden which can be summoned by ~ (add the fact that with keyboard layout "german-deadkeys", you have to press AltrGr+"+" followed by Space to get a ~)
Title: What's missing from the manual?
Post by: Diggs on December 17, 2006, 04:29:17 pm
Quote from: "Ksempac"
Make it UNDERSTANDABLE and INTERESTING TO READ !

Usually, i read the whole manual before playing a game...that's what i tried to do with Tremulous...but i couldn t.

The previous manual is full of "Use Button X for Special Action Y" (with no explanation/example of Action Y) for every class...you cant understand it if you didn t play the game. I couldn t understand, i couldn t remember, so i dropped it, played a few games, and used only the tutorial mode to learn the commands...i completely forgot the crappy manual. That's why it took me quite a long time to learn about sprint, stamina bar, etc...


Agreed-
2nd page of the manual says "Use STRUCTURE/EVOLVE button", or "PRIMARY ATTACK button", and "DECONSTRUCT STUCTURE button".    I go back to see what I missed and there is nothing that says what these buttons are supposed to be.  In fact, in the whole manual it never says what the default binds are on any of the buttons.  A new player is lost if he relies on reading the manual.  If fact, the seasoned players that give the noobs are hard time by saying RTFM are a joke to themselves as they seem to have no idea what is/isn't covered in the current manual.  I tried to get through the 25 pages on instructions (the last 10 pages of the 35 being totally useless) before playing the first time and was pretty disappointed.  Then when I asked for clarification in this forum, all I got was some snooty RTFM.

Particle system?  Why would that be in a players manual along with server map rotation creation?

I agree, the manual needs some serious work, but as pointed out before, now that most of us have been playing for too long, we have lost the perspective needed to create a good manual for the introductory player.

Diggs
Title: What's missing from the manual?
Post by: Lakitu7 on December 17, 2006, 04:31:17 pm
Quote from: "Paradox"
Quote from: "Lakitu7"

"Poison does not work against humans equipped with a Battlesuit. "
That's just incorrect. Perhaps it was correct back in beta?


No, poison did nothing to bsuits for a long time, but tjw changed that with his admin client.


A major balance change seems like quite an odd thing to be in an administration mod, but if that's the case, a giant-enough number of servers run TJW for it to warrant a mention in the manual.
Title: What's missing from the manual?
Post by: StVald on December 17, 2006, 04:59:11 pm
Make reading the manual, at least the basics, mandatory before being able to start the game for the first time. It would be like those license agreements that you have to scroll to the bottom before "I agree" is clickable. You could also have hitbox overlays on the building model images and I second the idea of detailed weap damage/health info.
Title: What's missing from the manual?
Post by: Radiohead on December 17, 2006, 05:11:51 pm
You hate to see noobs not know anything once they start the game. However, would they know that there is a manuel there for them? Or will they just have to have someone tell them.
Title: What's missing from the manual?
Post by: Diggs on December 17, 2006, 07:01:58 pm
You guys are hung up on making noobs read the manual, but this thread is about what is the manual missing.  And, if the manual was written differently, it would be a good resource for the beginner.  As it stand now, it isn't.  Contribute to the thread as requested instead of trying to figure out how make someone read something that doesn't help them that much.

After reviewing my Quake III Arena manual for ideas, I see that the current instructs were written in more or less the same format.  My suggestion was going to be that reviewing other games manuals may give some ideas on how to improve the current manual.

Diggs
Title: What's missing from the manual?
Post by: janev on December 17, 2006, 08:42:33 pm
From recent games i'm getting the feeling the role of battlesuits in egghunts on for example transit was not explained well enough....Battlesuits are not very good for finding hidden eggs  :wink:
Title: What's missing from the manual?
Post by: vcxzet on December 17, 2006, 08:48:08 pm
I know I know
nakid girls on the page background
so noobs would actually read it erm look at
Title: What's missing from the manual?
Post by: Norfenstein on December 17, 2006, 09:33:58 pm
Thanks for all the great suggestions guys. It's going to take me a while to sort through everything and figure out how to redo the manual (so don't expect anything for a while), but I'll definitely put drafts up for public review once I do have something (I might have more questions to ask all of you before that too).

Also, I don't know who runs it, but I've noticed that www.tremwiki.com (http://www.tremwiki.com) is becoming a pretty good resource and is considerably more accessible than the manual (and probably less likely to be out of date), so I'd encourage anyone interested to contribute to that. Even once the manual gets revised a wiki will probably be a better place for strategy stuff.
Title: What's missing from the manual?
Post by: benmachine on December 18, 2006, 02:40:30 pm
I think some kind of mention of the fact that you hit eggs at their base and not halfway up is essential. Everyone gets this wrong initially.
Title: What's missing from the manual?
Post by: Vector_Matt on December 18, 2006, 04:05:48 pm
We need information on how to repair human structures.
Title: What's missing from the manual?
Post by: |Nex|TrEmMa on December 18, 2006, 11:27:52 pm
Some of the mentioned additions are already in the FAQ (http://www.tremulous.net/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=1049), maybe find a way of integrating the two?
Title: What's missing from the manual?
Post by: Foobicam on December 31, 2006, 06:21:37 am
Quote
Also, I don't know who runs it, but I've noticed that www.tremwiki.com (http://www.tremwiki.com) is becoming a pretty good resource and is considerably more accessible than the manual (and probably less likely to be out of date), so I'd encourage anyone interested to contribute to that. Even once the manual gets revised a wiki will probably be a better place for strategy stuff.


The wiki is great, with both class/structure information extracted from header files and strategy guides.   Perhaps it will be more up to date than a manual could ever be, but a manual has one thing a wiki does not: an editor with control over content.   Plagiarize the wiki content into the revised manual where appropriate, but don't think that the wiki has made a manual superfluous.

What I'd like to see, in addition to the excellent suggestions earlier in this thread:
1) an explanation of sprinting - who can use it and what it does.  I'm confused by a human running at precisely at the speed of a dretch for the full length of ATCS -- humans shouldn't be able to run that fast :-).  I'm confused by l33t goons running faster than my goon even though I've tried pouncing, jumping and sprinting (which appears to have no effect). A column on walk/run/sprint speeds, in addition to the evo and health points columns for various classes, would be great.

2) a description of miscellaneous tricks like dretch punt/catapult (which I've never seen explained) and dretch lifts (I have personally carried a s1 granger up to the second floor in the elevator room in Karith after being told what to do, and have seen a trapped tyrant rescued from the basement shaft in Tremor).  Any other useful cooperative behaviors?

3) an official statement in the manual that alien crosshairs (and other config file edits) are not considered cheats :-).   Lava's position on this is untenable, and the 5 pages of forum discussion on it is, umm, indescribably incoherent.
Title: What's missing from the manual?
Post by: benplaut on January 01, 2007, 12:06:33 am
how about some explanation of lingo?

goon, inc, nade, decon, etc.
Title: What's missing from the manual?
Post by: Norfenstein on January 04, 2007, 10:19:49 pm
Quote from: "Foobicam"
an official statement in the manual that alien crosshairs (and other config file edits) are not considered cheats

Aliens should be getting official crosshairs in the next version so this shouldn't be an issue.

Quote from: "benplaut"
how about some explanation of lingo?

goon, inc, nade, decon, etc.

Excellent idea, I'll do that.


Keep 'em coming if you got 'em.
Title: What's missing from the manual?
Post by: Foobicam on January 07, 2007, 04:16:09 pm
How about how to use demos - playing back at .25x speed, changing follow viewpoint, etc.

E.g. information from: http://tremulous.net/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=2702&highlight=demo+speed
Title: What's missing from the manual?
Post by: vcxzet on January 07, 2007, 04:17:21 pm
Quote from: "Foobicam"
How about how to use demos - playing back at .25x speed, changing follow viewpoint, etc.

cg_thirdperson 1
recording avi
Title: Lacks
Post by: ShadowNinjaDudeMan on January 07, 2007, 05:15:37 pm
The manual lacked some inmformation, which is actually really important to using tremulous to the most it can give you.
I found it didnt tell me about:

1. How to set your name
2. How to colour your writing
3. A rundown on how to set up a server and
4. An explanation on what the terms like "Zombie Time" actually mean
5. Different server commands (v. usefull)
6. Info about admins
7. Detailed information on each of the classes and weapons like:
    Damage per second
    Speed
    Range
    Health
    and so on and so forth
8. A guide to voting
9. Maybe for younger players, a guide to ,internet safety (but doesnt matter)

It is quite amazing how much rather essential information  the manual just doesnt tell you.
Sure, it is a nice friendly manual for total noobs, but after a while they will notice servers, voting and coloured writing, and annoy other players byu asking them how to do these thigs.

Therefore, a lot of pain and annoyance can easily be saved by making the manual, an incredibly detailed analysis of the game.

However most noobs simply do not care about these technicalities, so you could put the simple stuff at the front, and the complicated and techy stuff at the back.

Thx for (if) you reading this

 :D  :)  :D  :)  :D  :)  :D
Title: What's missing from the manual?
Post by: kozak6 on January 08, 2007, 01:17:21 am
And Sudden Death needs to be explained.
Title: What's missing from the manual?
Post by: lpd on January 11, 2007, 10:10:59 pm
Quote
a manual has one thing a wiki does not: an editor with control over content.


Very true - otherwise the wiki wouldn't be a wiki :D

There is now a "getting started" page on tremwiki:

http://www.tremwiki.com/getting_started

I put into it all the basic stuff I felt stupid for not knowing.  Feel free to add more.

- LPD
Title: What's missing from the manual?
Post by: deadoon on February 11, 2007, 01:04:48 am
old stuff but a problem i had and no1 helped me with i had figured out after a while
HOW TO GET NEW WEAPONS
most don't know how :P

and building help and tips section

 :battpack:  :grenade: btw fix these they look sorta like cellphones (to me at least)
Title: What's missing from the manual?
Post by: Nux on February 13, 2007, 10:59:11 pm
How about..

Congratulations! You are one of the 2% of tremulous users to have actually looked at this manual.

Then it can go into detail about exactly how great the reader is. The rest writes itself!

..oh, and is it possible to put greater emphasis on the fact that letting yourself get killed by the enemy again and again ('feeding') is not good?
Title: What's missing from the manual?
Post by: .Long-Range on March 12, 2007, 09:42:13 pm
I would have appreciated a little paragraph explaining how to earn credits and how to use those credits to buy things such as weapons. My first few rounds were played with only the basic rifle. I then realized that I had to sell  the basic rifle to unlock the ability to purchase better weapons.
Title: OK I finally got a legit one
Post by: player1 on March 16, 2007, 01:43:15 am
Replacing Damaged Structures

At what point can you no longer replace destroyed structures? If it isn't sudden death, shouldn't an advckit be able to place turrets/teslas as others are destroyed? Is this some kind of lock on camping humanity's ability to endlessly place defenses? Again: NOT SUDDEN DEATH. Late in S3, not yet SD, server: SST (iirc). Just wondering. I'm usually pretty busy repairing (I just discovered repairing the reactor and am now shocked when others don't do it) but I like to toss down a "that wasn't there b4" tesla to mess with rants. I thought you could do it as turrets were destroyed.

PlayerOne plays the pubservers, where the rules change a lot
and some people seem to have strange & mystical powers  :eek:  :-?  :roll:  :D
Title: What's missing from the manual?
Post by: Norfenstein on March 16, 2007, 04:02:15 pm
Um, your teammates are probably rebuilding structures elsewhere before you do.
Title: Yeah, but...
Post by: player1 on March 17, 2007, 05:46:48 am
Quote from: "Norfenstein"
Um, your teammates are probably rebuilding structures elsewhere before you do.


I mean like on ATCS where I know no-one else is building. Also, I don't see any alerts that anyone else is building structures (Joe Blow built a turret). Remember, I'm talking about public servers:

http://tremulous.net/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=3932

Is it possible to limit the ability to replace damaged strutures? Can the admin set the server so you can't rebuild after you reach some parameter? I got the message that I had to decon b4 I could build. Yet my base was destroyed (like 15 turrets gone), and I wasn't getting build alerts that teammates were building. What gives? Still had reactor, 100% reactor "health". Just wondering. It's hard to learn the game when on some of these servers, because you're not sure how many things they've changed, or are currently mucking about with. It's never the same way twice. :-?  :eek:  :P
Title: What's missing from the manual?
Post by: Dance Commander on March 21, 2007, 04:10:50 am
sometimes there is a lag time between the building being destroyed, and the build points being returned to your team's points.  ive noticed it is longer on some servers, and non existant on others.  i dont think its a setting, but it might be... im not a techhead.
Title: What's missing from the manual?
Post by: blackelf on April 01, 2007, 07:33:10 pm
Examples of using command line and basic server configuration.

They should be both in online game manual and in linux man page, and they are in neither.

I would like to see:

EXAMPLES
  tremulous-server +set sv_cheats 1  
    run cheats enabled server
  tremulous-server +set net_ip 19.168.1.1
    run LAN only server
  tremulous-server +set ???? foo
    run server starting with map foo

and so on
Title: What's missing from the manual?
Post by: Lord Baxter on April 07, 2007, 11:26:26 am
maybe having some sort of coding that says that you can only open the tremulous executable if you have at least opened the manual file. secondly, the manual is in pdf format and it looks about as exciting as a sheet of A4 paper, make it look more awsome, like the title screen for tremulous.
Title: What's missing from the manual?
Post by: jr2 on April 07, 2007, 02:16:43 pm
A simple strategy guide for both aliens and humans, covering the basics of fighting, and base building / maintaining / moving...  Just my 2c...
Title: What's missing from the manual?
Post by: Norfenstein on April 07, 2007, 03:45:56 pm
Just a note, I am still checking this thread, but to be honest I've put off touching the manual until we're settled with the gameplay. I'll probably be borrowing heavily from the wiki(s) too, especially with regards to presentation.
Title: The newbie perspective
Post by: UtterNewbie on April 08, 2007, 03:41:20 am
I ran tremulous for the first time last night, so at the risk of being flamed by all the "RTFM you noob" types (and since you asked what was missing from the manual), I'll post my observations.

   I took a quick read through the manual (wondering which buttons were the default for "secondary attack" or "activate upgrade" and even skimmed the section on particle stuff towards the end (having no idea what that would be used for -- writing my own mod perhaps???)

  I fired up tremulous and didn't see any obvious way of getting to the options to see what keys would be used for what, and decided my best bet would be to fire up a private server so I could wander around in the maps and learn how to jump, pounce, how to use different weapons, etc.  Only...  Bummer. When I fired up a server, I couldn't see any way to join it. Hmph. Ok, I'll figure that out later as I'm sure there must be a way to run a server (perhaps with no gui console?) and join it on the same machine, or I'll just fire up another linux box to run the server on it for experimentation.

   So I bravely joined a server that I had a sub 100 ping on intending to spectate and try to A) figure out some of the maps and B) figure out some of the strategies, tips, and techniques missing in the manual. It said not to join as a builder (see, I *did* read it) and to start as a rifleman, so I figured I'd try to divine how to play different roles by watching the better players.  Too bad there are no demos -- or at least none I know about from the manual.

   After watching a while, I see the humans are gradually losing their base defenses.  Ok, I decide I'll join and try to guard the builder. Only, I find that I suck trying to kill advanced mauraders and tyrants with a rifle. 'Course I didn't know yet that I should be at least buying light armor and a helmet and ammo before diving into the fray. I could see I was not doing well, so I decided since I knew where the turrets used to be I could try helping to rebuild them.  That didn't go well either.  After we lost I went back to spectating to see if I could figure out why I was so utterly useless with the rifle and why I wasn't (apparently) killing bugs as well as those I was spectating.  But I got kicked for being "AFK" on a full server (12 users out of 24? - ok, whatever).

   So... Time to join an empty server and just wander around the new maps and try to sort out how to use the armory, how to repair structures (is that possible?) etc.  After a few minutes, someone joined. I said "I'm just looking around and trying to figure things out."  I found the same thing.I could blast away with the rifle, and appear to be hammering the li'l bug only to find that it wouldn't die and I would after being hit a few times. (sigh)  Worse, it musta been against the other player's religion to talk or they'd taken a vow of silence or something as they were not remotely interested in offering any tips or even critiques or even just answering simple questions. K, whatever.

   After a while I went to a lightly loaded server to spectate again. This one had two humans and one alien. The humans had built repeaters right up to the room the aliens spawn in and had multiple turrets and tesla generators by every exit from this room. Hmph. Ok, I'll join and try to help the one alien player and see if I can play bugs any better.

   After dying a dozen or so times it was pretty apparent that it was hopeless. The other alien says "Let's start over - this is impossible" to which I agreed. One human replies "No, it's possible I've seen it done". Of course, no details follow on how.

   It seems to me that nobody is remotely interested in helping newbies out. I dunno if it's because so much hinges on the number of kills or what, but rather than taking it easy on a newbie and explaining the way things work or offering help, everyone is more interested in just killing the easy meat to get the kill. Hmph.  

   Eventually the map changed and precisely the same thing happened. I thought I'd try to join the human side to split up the clan-tag-equipped players and perhaps even the game out but wasn't fast enough -- they both joined the human side and I had the choice of aliens or spectator. Bah.

   I went back to a different server and again had to play alien (no ranged attacks as the tiny bug so technique seems to be pretty dang important to get any kills and you can't play any other type of bug without getting those kills... sigh) and after an hour or so I finally got one... 1 kill.  I remember the manual talking about trying to bite the head but I'm damned if I can see how. The little bug can't jump higher than about knee height as far as I can tell.  Other players are able to do it so it's clearly possible to play. I just don't know how and just as clearly nobody is remotely interested in offering tips to newbies.

   Back in the day when I played TFC, I had two servers -- one was a (mostly) public server and the other was a test server where I'd explore new maps or try new things out. But when my brother or I would run across newbies we'd at least try to help 'em learn and not just pound on 'em. If you discourage 'em, it won't be any fun for them after all and they'll just quit. If they were interested in learning about how to do something, we'd take 'em over to the private "test" server where we could show them (things like how to conc-jump, how to use different weapons better, where to build sentry guns, where NOT to, what was considered rude or cheap,  what sorta things would piss off their teammates (things not todo), etc.

   Thanks to this forum, I just found out about the tremwiki. Good. I'll go there next and see if I can figure out some of the do's and don'ts and how to start up my own private server where I can learn how to do things without being in the heat of battle and having either a gaggle of angry players berating all the newbies or a gaggle of the other side just gobbling up kills and ensuring the newbies have as little fun as possible.

   I'll skim the forums too for the same sort of do's 'n don'ts. Basically, if the manual doesn't have a "read this before joining a game" section of the manual CLEARLY stating what a newbie should and should not do, the uber-players shouldn't be surprised when newbies join and feed the other side kills. This section should be more specific and contain more details than just "don't play a builder on your first game".

   Anyway, please don't see this as a rant. It's not intended that way -- I just thought I'd post the newbie perspective while it was still fresh in mind. I'm off to tremwiki and the other forum posts...
Title: What's missing from the manual?
Post by: UtterNewbie on April 08, 2007, 04:01:38 am
One other thing just occurred to me.  The manual mentions a gaggle of bindings (commands that can be bound to keys) but no indication of how this is to be done. Anything that avoids that pesky build menu in the game or the other menus should be, IMHO documented clearly in the manual too.

There's also mention of "boost" -- must be a run function of sorts. Something else I clearly need to learn about by experimentation since it's not really discussed in the manual.  That'll be one of the first things I play with once I get my own private server going to experiment on. :-)

Maybe a list of possible, recommended key bindings would be useful in the manual...
Title: What's missing from the manual?
Post by: Norfenstein on April 08, 2007, 05:29:02 am
Just so you know why the manual failed you so utterly: it was written for Tremulous-the-mod, not Tremulous-the-standalone-game, so I assumed a lot of Quake 3 knowledge. Thanks for describing your experience.
Title: What's missing from the manual?
Post by: Plague Bringer on April 08, 2007, 01:10:10 pm
Hey, UtterNewbie. I find it's easier to get headbites with the little dretchies when you ping lower then 100, so stay on the nice ping servers. What you have to do is look...oh, about a few inches above the human's head. Constult Player1 on these forums for help, he was the last memorable newbie to join the forums but he's advancing greatly! I'm sure he'll jump at the chance to help you out!

Look at that bite range!
(http://evilbastard.org/slight/lolheadchomp.gif)
Title: What's missing from the manual?
Post by: Lord Baxter on April 08, 2007, 04:40:22 pm
norfenstein your comment puzzled me. the game is a mod of quake 3 and that might entail having a copy of quake 3 to play it on but you didn't change the manual when it became standalone?
Title: What's missing from the manual?
Post by: UtterNewbie on April 10, 2007, 07:01:58 am
Quote from: "Lord Baxter"
norfenstein your comment puzzled me. the game is a mod of quake 3 and that might entail having a copy of quake 3 to play it on but you didn't change the manual when it became standalone?


I imagine that it was a matter of not having time to duplicate the entire quake manual (perhaps copyright issues too???  dunno)  Such is the nature of mods 'n new opensource projects. Not a big deal now that I know about the forums and the wiki.

Thanks for the tips on headbiting PlagueBringer. I'll give it another go later this week when I get a chance to play again.

The good news is that after skimming the forums and doing some more spectating, I managed to reach double-digit kills (high twenties as I recall) last night and was a bit better than "utterly useless". :-)  Progress, of a sort...
Title: What's missing from the manual?
Post by: jr2 on April 12, 2007, 01:50:00 pm
K, I saw how you get headbites, now can anyone tell me how to get a bead on a dretch?  Humans (n00b humans, anyway) are defenseless against them.  When I'm a dretch, any experienced player toasts me immediately, no matter what weapon they have.  When I'm a human, I couldn't shoot a dretch if, err... well, if my life depended on it.  So I die! :p  It's not uncommon for me to be killed like ten times within 5 minutes and not score a single alien kill.  (unless I manage to gang up on a bigger alien with some buddies).

So, what's the secret to aiming?  Heck, I can't even hit a dretch with a pain saw!

EDIT: An idea for the manual (sort of): how about a simple training mission - it doesn't need to have AI or anything, maybe just a scripted spectator walkthrough of a few battles, with a voiceover (ie, have a team of people play out a training battle(s) for the Spectator, whose movements are scripted to watch the fight... then just use a voice over (or text) to explain everything.
Title: What's missing from the manual?
Post by: kozak6 on April 12, 2007, 06:13:47 pm
Quote from: "jr2"
How the hell do you kill dretches??!?!?


First, it's important to make sure you join a server with a low ping, preferably under 100.  Otherwise, you are going to have to lead the dretch.

There were plans for a sort of training demo like that, except it fell through because no one participated.
Title: What's missing from the manual?
Post by: jr2 on April 13, 2007, 05:47:47 am
Err, if you ever get enough volunteers, PM me if you want; I can help if needed... just gotta tell me what to do.
Title: What's missing from the manual?
Post by: tsurano on April 14, 2007, 04:39:35 am
k some important things that wouldve helped me

1.  How to use general chat
2.  How to use team chat
3.  How to taunt (not necessary, but fun)
4.  How to set binds
5.  How to take screenshots
6.  How to Private Message (I still don't know how and I've played for 3-4 months)
7.  Pretty much a list of all keyboard shortcuts

Yea and people are right make manual better, maybe have videos and screenshots of how to do things on site that would be cool
Title: What's missing from the manual?
Post by: jr2 on April 14, 2007, 06:44:28 pm
Private Message is most likely in the console (hit the ~ key, beside the 1 key)  IDK how to do the actual PM.  The only thing I do know is how to share credits (if the server has it enabled):
Open the console.
Type:
/share tsurano 1000
to give you 1000 credits or
/share tsurano 5
to give you 5 evos... you can share small amts of credits if you want, too.

This would IMHO also be useful for the manual.

For screenshots; I use FRAPS; It's not free, but the free version lets you save screenshots to BMP format (full version = JPG, PNG & TGA also), and record video 30 seconds (full version = as unlimited as your hard drive's capacity).

This way, I can use one prog to take screenshots / movies (with sound) in all games... it even works for video clips in DVD players or media players!

Does anyone know of a free / open-source prog that does the same thing?  I like FRAPS, but I'm sure not everyone likes to pay for it... (although it's only $37 USD)
Title: What's missing from the manual?
Post by: sleekslacker on April 14, 2007, 11:21:42 pm
/share isn't an official Tremulous command. People in-game will usually help you if you ask anyway.
Title: Tremwiki
Post by: pie.matthew on May 03, 2007, 06:31:10 am
What about just adding all the stuff from tremwiki.com onto it. I didn't know much about it until i read that.
Title: What's missing from the manual?
Post by: Diggs on May 04, 2007, 06:34:11 pm
OK then-

What is missing from Tremwiki (http://www.tremwiki.com) and please check before you answer as I see quite a bit has been added since I last looked.
Title: What's missing from the manual?
Post by: Foobicam on May 21, 2007, 12:47:58 am
Quote from: "jr2"
For screenshots; I use FRAPS; It's not free, but the free version lets you save screenshots to BMP format (full version = JPG, PNG & TGA also)

One thing that may be helpful is to examine the autogen.cfg file (in the Tremulous\base folder) to see what commands are bound by default.  One is "bind F11 screenshotJPEG" which does ... guess what.  Another (mentioned earlier in this thread) is "bind x "boost".  I had no idea what boost was since aliens get poison by touching the booster, not using a bind.  But since it is bound to "x", it means "sprint" - run faster (when human - aliens can't sprint).

Lots of other goodies in there, including "seta cg_lagometer 0".  Setting this to 1 enables a nice little network performance display.  Have fun exploring.
Title: What's missing from the manual?
Post by: jr2 on June 06, 2007, 04:01:38 pm
How about the option to configure your autodownload to be fast, using http download (I forgot how to do it, but I know I've done it with one of my Trem installs).  Otherwise, you're stuck at 13 k/sec.
Title: What's missing from the manual?
Post by: kevlarman on June 06, 2007, 04:21:51 pm
Quote from: "jr2"
How about the option to configure your autodownload to be fast, using http download (I forgot how to do it, but I know I've done it with one of my Trem installs).  Otherwise, you're stuck at 13 k/sec.
it's enabled by default in svn iirc
Title: What's missing from the manual?
Post by: tyranis on June 22, 2007, 01:29:03 am
Quote from: "kevlarman"
Quote from: "jr2"
How about the option to configure your autodownload to be fast, using http download (I forgot how to do it, but I know I've done it with one of my Trem installs).  Otherwise, you're stuck at 13 k/sec.
it's enabled by default in svn iirc



Most new people will just download the default "old" version without guid, http, etc. that is linked on the site.
Title: What's missing from the manual?
Post by: ThePyro on July 10, 2007, 05:21:46 pm
I think the manual should include a section which describes how many evo points are awarded for killing a human.  A thorough description of partial credit, etc... is not necessary; just a basic overview (a human with 0 to 300 credits of weapons + upgrades is worth 1 evo point, 301 to 600 credits is worth 2 evos, 601+ is worth 3 evos)
Title: What's missing from the manual?
Post by: Timbo on July 17, 2007, 11:26:50 am
Wow, ThePyro :D. Long time :)...
Title: What's missing from the manual?
Post by: UniqPhoeniX on October 18, 2007, 10:20:48 am
First: change manual to html. Some people, especially with older computers might not have acrobat reader. It would be much easier to use too.
Add a shortcut to TremWiki to the Tremulous Start menu folder.

In manual, the Alien classes pics are huge. TremWiki looks much better and its easy to compare stats.

TremWiki doesn't have the sub-commands for all binds, like helmet, larmor, bsuit in "Misc" -> "Binding" (these are written in examples in Getting started).
Also add the info about .cfg files from "Getting started" -> "Custom binds" to "Misc" -> "Binding"

In the default installation of Tremulous there is no such folder as "\Documents and Settings\username\Local Settings\Application Data\Tremulous\base\". I added the files for custom binds (like Alien.cfg) to Tremulous\base folder in Program files and it worked.
TremWiki doesn't even have a download link to TJW's backport, even tho its described in "Client versions".
Title: What's missing from the manual?
Post by: PIE on October 26, 2007, 04:17:57 am
Quote from: "UsaKilleR"
First: change manual to html. Some people, especially with older computers might not have acrobat reader. It would be much easier to use too.

?
http://tremulous.net/manual/
Title: What's missing from the manual?
Post by: gareth on October 26, 2007, 03:57:13 pm
Quote from: "PIE"
Quote from: "UsaKilleR"
First: change manual to html. Some people, especially with older computers might not have acrobat reader. It would be much easier to use too.

?
http://tremulous.net/manual/


the one which comes with the dl is pdf. i dont think it matters that much, but i agree html would be less crappy/better.
Title: What's missing from the manual?
Post by: PIE on October 27, 2007, 06:37:34 am
Quote from: "gareth"
Quote from: "PIE"
Quote from: "UsaKilleR"
First: change manual to html. Some people, especially with older computers might not have acrobat reader. It would be much easier to use too.

?
http://tremulous.net/manual/


the one which comes with the dl is pdf. i dont think it matters that much, but i agree html would be less crappy/better.

I'm aware of that.. just saying that there is an html version for anyone with an internet connection (which for trem you sorta need anyway) so it negates the need to download an html version with your installation. My only real gripe with the PDF version is that the sections on the index page are not links/clickable and that the page splitting could have been done better ex: the details for the dretch are on another page than the stats/image. It trims it down 100kb (might matter to someone i guess) and simplifies the file layout (no image directory etc). Also prevents confusion when people open an html file and by default the OS opens an editor. If you get a good PDF reader its a non-issue.
Title: Re: What's missing from the manual?
Post by: jr2 on November 15, 2007, 09:45:05 am

6.  How to Private Message (I still don't know how and I've played for 3-4 months)


OK, I know this one now, it's :

/m <username (or part of username)> <message>

eg, my username is -=HLP=-_FS2_jr2
/m jr2 whaddup
would message me:
"whaddup"
Title: Re: What's missing from the manual?
Post by: superjoe88 on January 24, 2008, 04:09:00 am
Maybe a manual for the Mac test version would help too. otherwise, on the job training.
Title: Re: What's missing from the manual?
Post by: blood2.0 on February 05, 2008, 03:59:28 am
why isn't the manual being rewriten??????
Title: Re: What's missing from the manual?
Post by: bmac on February 29, 2008, 02:13:07 am
i don't know how to change the name colour

how do u do it?
Title: Re: What's missing from the manual?
Post by: mooseberry on February 29, 2008, 05:24:22 am
i don't know how to change the name colour

how do u do it?

 ::)  ::) and for emphasis  ::)

CHECK THAT STICKY IN THE SAME SECTION THAT SAYS FAQ CHECK HERE BEFORE ASKING QUESTIONS! (http://tremulous.net/forum/index.php?topic=1049.0)
Title: Re: What's missing from the manual?
Post by: bmac on March 10, 2008, 12:47:30 pm
i still am having a hard time finding it

could you post the link ???

 :granger: +  :hovel: =  :P
Title: Re: What's missing from the manual?
Post by: Taiyo.uk on March 10, 2008, 01:09:50 pm
Mooseberry has just given you the link.

I am however becoming unsure whether you're asking these questions seriously. It is hard to believe that someone with sufficient hand-eye coordination to operate a keyboard requires this much spoon-feeding.
Title: Re: What's missing from the manual?
Post by: InsanityQ on April 02, 2008, 08:55:28 pm
how much damage a gun or an alien does.
Title: Re: What's missing from the manual?
Post by: Despairation on April 03, 2008, 11:34:19 pm
i don't know how to change the name colour

how do u do it?

/name ^1 ^2 ^3 ^4 ^5 ^6 ^7 (white) ^8

Example:
/name ^4D^7espair^4ation would look like this:
Despairation which is Despairation with colors.