Tremulous Forum

General => General Discussion => Topic started by: Lava Croft on December 27, 2006, 10:01:27 pm

Title: NATURAL SELECTION PLAYERS NEED HELP
Post by: Lava Croft on December 27, 2006, 10:01:27 pm
After reading  this (http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/index.php?s=5396071811912485888&showtopic=99417&st=0) post on the Natural Selection forums, it seems that all the retarded folk in Tremulous must be Natural Selection players, since they utterly fail at understanding the basics of the game. Will anyone be so kind as to help them?
Title: NATURAL SELECTION PLAYERS NEED HELP
Post by: kozak6 on December 27, 2006, 10:20:57 pm
So, let's look at some of the criticism:

*The manual is rather lacking.  
-Sounds about right.  Good thing it's being fixed up.

*Unfriendly playerbase.
-Depends on the server, I suppose.

*Too fast/Flimsy/Detached/Unbalanced/Mindless/Don't like the art style."
-Meh.

And with that, I conclude:

Meh.
Title: NATURAL SELECTION PLAYERS NEED HELP
Post by: Norfenstein on December 27, 2006, 10:24:43 pm
I was expecting their thread to be really flamey and ignorant but it actually just turned into a discussion about manuals and helping new players in games. I know Timbo likes forum drama, but if anyone replies I hope it'll just be to point them toward the strategy guides floating around, the wikis, and most importantly my what's missing from the manual? (http://tremulous.net/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=2905) topic.
Title: NATURAL SELECTION PLAYERS NEED HELP
Post by: Survivor on December 27, 2006, 10:31:04 pm
Generally I agree, the only fact i disagree with in the entire topic is that he tried just 3 servers and came to the conclusion that all 100 were full of bastards. Otherwise not much we can do which we aren't doing already.
Title: NATURAL SELECTION PLAYERS NEED HELP
Post by: |Nex|TrEmMa on December 27, 2006, 10:35:16 pm
Just give them this link and they will be happy (http://tremulous.net/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=509&highlight=dps)
Title: NATURAL SELECTION PLAYERS NEED HELP
Post by: Neo on December 27, 2006, 10:43:53 pm
Surv you can't expect them to actually try the game for an extensive period, it might break his NS fanboi shell ;)

Ignorance is bliss, especially when you're trying to prove yourself right.
Title: NATURAL SELECTION PLAYERS NEED HELP
Post by: Survivor on December 27, 2006, 10:59:33 pm
Quote from: "Neo"
Surv you can't expect them to actually try the game for an extensive period, it might break his NS fanboi shell ;)

Ignorance is bliss, especially when you're trying to prove yourself right.


Should we invite him to derelict for bootcamp?

oh and i'll raise you one quote

Quote
'Corporal Carrot says there's some good buried somewhere in everyone,' said Detritus.
And what's your job, Detritus.'
Dink. 'Engineer in charge of deep mining operations, sah!'
Title: NATURAL SELECTION PLAYERS NEED HELP
Post by: Thorn on December 27, 2006, 11:12:44 pm
Quote from: "Survivor"


Should we invite him to derelict for bootcamp?



How can you teach someone on a truely derelict server?
Title: NATURAL SELECTION PLAYERS NEED HELP
Post by: Survivor on December 27, 2006, 11:28:13 pm
Because it will be devoid of anyone except those who want to be there?
Title: NATURAL SELECTION PLAYERS NEED HELP
Post by: Lava Croft on December 27, 2006, 11:58:01 pm
Thorn just keeps on getting owned in multiple threads at the same time. Hilarious.
Title: NATURAL SELECTION PLAYERS NEED HELP
Post by: vcxzet on December 28, 2006, 12:01:44 am
:hovel:  looks like an NS alien
Title: NATURAL SELECTION PLAYERS NEED HELP
Post by: Thorn on December 28, 2006, 12:06:19 am
Quote from: "Lava Croft"
Thorn just keeps on getting owned in multiple threads at the same time. Hilarious.


Pay more attention to this thread and you will see you have actually owned yourself :roll:
Title: NATURAL SELECTION PLAYERS NEED HELP
Post by: Matt2k10 on December 28, 2006, 01:25:45 am
They think everyone who plays Tremulous is an asshole who screams "RTFM" whenever someone asks a question. They clearly have not played on the better servers, and should not base their assumptions on the 1 server they played on.
Title: NATURAL SELECTION PLAYERS NEED HELP
Post by: Risujin on December 28, 2006, 01:36:49 am
Quote from: "Thorn"
Quote from: "Survivor"
Should we invite him to derelict for bootcamp?
How can you teach someone on a truely derelict server?

RTFM!!!
Title: NATURAL SELECTION PLAYERS NEED HELP
Post by: Kuszja on December 28, 2006, 03:25:15 am
After all this talk of those NS guys thinking we're retards who yell RTFM at game play questions and you decide to yell RTFM here? Yea, we sure look good now. At least I never offended anyone who asked a question, I'm nice.

As far as the manual goes, I think it should not include any real strategies since there are going to be people who will live by them like law and complain when they lose. Perhaps just some outlines. It should also include the following:

"After reading this you should play a few games alone in your own game to get the feel of the game. Look at the controls under options and get everything down comfortably. Then go out into the real world"

I actually feel tempted to try NS and review it. At least it would have them to look at their own faults and community compared to ours.
Title: NATURAL SELECTION PLAYERS NEED HELP
Post by: Paradox on December 28, 2006, 03:44:31 am
I played NS, and frankly, i am unimpressed. Trem mixes FPS and RTS well, not like just stealing star craft, and droping it on a fps.
At least in trem, it doesn't switch between birds eye and first person.
Title: NATURAL SELECTION PLAYERS NEED HELP
Post by: Vector_Matt on December 28, 2006, 04:06:40 am
Quote from: "Kuszja"
I actually feel tempted to try NS
So do I, except NS is a mod for a non-free game, so meh.
Title: NATURAL SELECTION PLAYERS NEED HELP
Post by: techhead on December 28, 2006, 04:13:10 am
Not to mention its a Windows-only non-free game, no other Desktop ports.
Title: NATURAL SELECTION PLAYERS NEED HELP
Post by: Kuszja on December 28, 2006, 04:57:01 am
Ok, three points:

It's only $10 + tax. I understand, and am, a freebie person, but hl is a good game and doesn't q3 cost something? Trem is free because is became a stand alone.

As far as os support goes, Windows is a great operating system. ... Just with better f'ing crackers and virus coders; and I've seen a windows environment simulator on linux and have heard of such programs for Mac.

The only real hinderance is you need high speed internet to download both Trem and NS and I have a 28.8k modem that rarely gets up to 28.8k, and in accordance with the degrading comments from our New England sized UK friends, a good part of the US is on dial-up still. Thankgod for wireless on campus.
Title: NATURAL SELECTION PLAYERS NEED HELP
Post by: Lava Croft on December 28, 2006, 09:04:20 am
Quote from: "Thorn"
Pay more attention to this thread and you will see you have actually owned yourself :roll:

Back up your statement with facts please!
Title: NATURAL SELECTION PLAYERS NEED HELP
Post by: [Kcorp]Noobius on December 28, 2006, 09:14:53 am
i've read that guy's 'review' and as far as i'm concerned let them stick to solitaire and be done with it.
Title: NATURAL SELECTION PLAYERS NEED HELP
Post by: jal on December 28, 2006, 11:43:53 am
While the talk at the NS forums was nice and friendly, and not as anti-Trem as I understood from Lava's post, I disagree with most of the statements made by the guy. First: Reading the manual before playing a game? It's the first time I hear of someone who really does that. Give people some short-but-handy ingame help and let them enjoy the pleasure of discovering how the game works. It's the best part of playing games. Second: He states that replying a simple question in a server won't make you loose any time: FALSE. I've done it a lot of times, and I know by experience that if you answer once, he will keep asking stuff until you ignore him. So you have two options: decide to help the guy "for good" (I do sometimes), or ignore him from the first question (I also do sometimes).
Title: NATURAL SELECTION PLAYERS NEED HELP
Post by: Lava Croft on December 28, 2006, 01:31:00 pm
Quote from: "jal"
as anti-Trem as I understood from Lava's post

Where in my post do you read anything about 'anti-Trem'?
Title: NATURAL SELECTION PLAYERS NEED HELP
Post by: Evlesoa on December 28, 2006, 02:41:17 pm
if "back up your statements with facts" count as anti-trem, then ur right. If not, then ur wrong. Lol Lava, seems u and Thorn getting picked on 8)
Title: NATURAL SELECTION PLAYERS NEED HELP
Post by: Thorn on December 28, 2006, 02:45:29 pm
Quote from: "Evlesoa"
if "back up your statements with facts" count as anti-trem, then ur right. If not, then ur wrong. Lol Lava, seems u and Thorn getting picked on 8)


Evlesoa, yet again you post without thinking. You just got owned...

"back up your statements with facts" was completely off topic and has nothing todo with this.

Go sit in the corner, bitch.
Title: NATURAL SELECTION PLAYERS NEED HELP
Post by: techhead on December 28, 2006, 02:49:23 pm
Windows emulators work best on Intel Macs, and I'm a Mac fan-boy anyway, won't touch Windows if I have a choice.
I miss the days when Bungie made Mac games...
Title: NATURAL SELECTION PLAYERS NEED HELP
Post by: Lava Croft on December 28, 2006, 02:50:18 pm
OK, these last few posts confuse me.
Title: NATURAL SELECTION PLAYERS NEED HELP
Post by: Thorn on December 28, 2006, 03:17:22 pm
Coffee is healthy. **Facts not included**
Title: NATURAL SELECTION PLAYERS NEED HELP
Post by: Glunnator on December 28, 2006, 08:49:38 pm
I don't care what other game players think of us.

I like trem and that's my final word.
Title: NATURAL SELECTION PLAYERS NEED HELP
Post by: Neo on December 28, 2006, 09:14:28 pm
i'd have to agree with Thorn on the self-ownage, for all who can't understand the 'derelict' reference.
Title: NATURAL SELECTION PLAYERS NEED HELP
Post by: Survivor on December 28, 2006, 09:18:59 pm
Derelict is a good enough server for teaching the ns players. No newbies bother to download those maps and generally anyone who joins derelict has enough common sense to help people, except for thorn it seems.

And neo :(
Title: NATURAL SELECTION PLAYERS NEED HELP
Post by: Neo on December 28, 2006, 09:30:12 pm
Actually the point is that only a few people play on derelict these days and when we do we just mess around most of the time. Unlike most others where its 'win at all costs'
Title: NATURAL SELECTION PLAYERS NEED HELP
Post by: Survivor on December 28, 2006, 10:31:03 pm
Meh, we need angel.
Title: Re: NATURAL SELECTION PLAYERS NEED HELP
Post by: jal on December 29, 2006, 10:54:09 am
Quote from: "Lava Croft"
Where in my post do you read anything about 'anti-Trem'?

This comment made me think it was some flamewar case:
Quote from: "Lava Croft"
After reading  this (http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/index.php?s=5396071811912485888&showtopic=99417&st=0) it seems that all the retarded folk in Tremulous must be Natural Selection players
Title: Re: NATURAL SELECTION PLAYERS NEED HELP
Post by: SLAVE|Mietz on December 29, 2006, 11:04:59 am
Quote from: "jal"
Quote from: "Lava Croft"
Where in my post do you read anything about 'anti-Trem'?

This comment made me think it was some flamewar case:
Quote from: "Lava Croft"
After reading  this (http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/index.php?s=5396071811912485888&showtopic=99417&st=0) it seems that all the retarded folk in Tremulous must be Natural Selection players


do not think, it makes your head hurt badly
Title: NATURAL SELECTION PLAYERS NEED HELP
Post by: n00b pl0x on December 29, 2006, 09:28:17 pm
my keyboard doesnt have a think button :(
Title: NATURAL SELECTION PLAYERS NEED HELP
Post by: Bajsefar on December 30, 2006, 11:31:47 am
Lava and others are makin us look like arses, hoooray!

I posted on the ns forums to try and change their opinions.
Title: NATURAL SELECTION PLAYERS NEED HELP
Post by: SLAVE|Mietz on December 30, 2006, 02:03:08 pm
because we are from #satgnu and we prefer pros :)
Title: NATURAL SELECTION PLAYERS NEED HELP
Post by: Bajsefar on December 30, 2006, 05:32:43 pm
If you prefer pros, go to alien's wrath, if you wanna punt noobs, go to satgnu.
Title: NATURAL SELECTION PLAYERS NEED HELP
Post by: SLAVE|Mietz on December 30, 2006, 06:23:31 pm
Quote from: "Bajsefar"
If you prefer pros, go to alien's wrath, if you wanna punt noobs, go to satgnu.


if you want a broken nose, come to lavas door :)
Title: NATURAL SELECTION PLAYERS NEED HELP
Post by: Neo on December 30, 2006, 09:32:56 pm
I think Bajsefar is confused, it happens to the new people :D
Title: NATURAL SELECTION PLAYERS NEED HELP
Post by: Spinviper on January 03, 2007, 09:50:18 am
Hello Kuszja/holyknight234/Sots! I'm Spinviper from the NS Forums.

If you'd like, I'd be happy to show you the ropes of Natural Selection. I primarily use Xfire for gaming, so you can add "spinviper" to your Xfire buddy list. Do not hesitate to bring any of your other Tremulous buddies along.

Do note that in NS, there are two gamemodes . Combat or CO_ which is made for short, intense games that do not have any RTS elements in them at all and NS Classic or NS_ which is what Natural Selection is all about - the fusion of FPS and RTS.

Good luck and I do hope you enjoy Natural-Selection.

Edit: I just installed Tremulous, going to give it a shot.
Title: NATURAL SELECTION PLAYERS NEED HELP
Post by: SilverWolf on January 03, 2007, 10:06:11 am
eh...
Why should i play natural selection when i like Tremulous?

And remember Spinviper, here on Tremulous we are very mean to noobs
so try not to do anything involving a gun!
Title: NATURAL SELECTION PLAYERS NEED HELP
Post by: Kuszja on January 03, 2007, 07:24:25 pm
Thank you, I tried NS earlier alone to get movement and stuff down but NS requires two people to do anything. I will go there next time I get the chance since I do not always have high speed internet access. My name there is [MaGC] Sidein.
Title: NATURAL SELECTION PLAYERS NEED HELP
Post by: [A] on January 03, 2007, 10:46:42 pm
I'm playing trem since october and I was natural selection's player for 3 years, i could say that you cant imagine how many kind of strategy and different gamestyle this game allows.

For me ns is really better than trem.

So why do i m playing trem now ?

Simple, the dev team is dead since half 2005 and continually saying "wait & see, update coming soon, official forum up again soon, ect ..." A lot of words and nothing more. The netcode was horrible and a lot of player have "no hitbox". The french community where i was acting was dying.

In a lot or few words, this mod is dead.

Now, a large part of the players was playing as "pro" way, alwais trying to know something more that can be usefull, they all know exactly life, dammage, armor effect of all in this game. The normal reflex for that kind of players is to wanna know dirrectly "what does what" to increase them way of playing in few time.

Now i can understand why you dont wanna answer in game and there is some forum where is easy to found what you want. But what i cant understand is instead answering "RTFM" why dont you answer "go and seek on tremulous.net".


Sry for my bad english.
Title: NATURAL SELECTION PLAYERS NEED HELP
Post by: techhead on January 04, 2007, 12:31:09 am
Your english was fine, if you want a in-depth guide to exactly what does what, check out the two Tremulous wiki's. If you want even more in-depth, look in tremulous.h in koders. For an insane amount of in-depth information, look through the game files.
Title: NATURAL SELECTION PLAYERS NEED HELP
Post by: holyknight on January 04, 2007, 12:48:52 am
Quote from: "Spinviper"
Hello Kuszja/holyknight234/Sots! I'm Spinviper from the NS Forums.

If you'd like, I'd be happy to show you the ropes of Natural Selection. I primarily use Xfire for gaming, so you can add "spinviper" to your Xfire buddy list. Do not hesitate to bring any of your other Tremulous buddies along.

Do note that in NS, there are two gamemodes . Combat or CO_ which is made for short, intense games that do not have any RTS elements in them at all and NS Classic or NS_ which is what Natural Selection is all about - the fusion of FPS and RTS.

Good luck and I do hope you enjoy Natural-Selection.

Edit: I just installed Tremulous, going to give it a shot.

well, I cant because
1. I have no Xfire
2. I have no Half-Life or CS (getting CS:S, will that do any good?)
and 3. my computer is very sucky, if I download any other game, either the comp will get messed up or my brother will kill me.
Title: NATURAL SELECTION PLAYERS NEED HELP
Post by: Spinviper on January 04, 2007, 11:28:04 am
Quote from: "holyknight"
Quote from: "Spinviper"
Hello Kuszja/holyknight234/Sots! I'm Spinviper from the NS Forums.

If you'd like, I'd be happy to show you the ropes of Natural Selection. I primarily use Xfire for gaming, so you can add "spinviper" to your Xfire buddy list. Do not hesitate to bring any of your other Tremulous buddies along.

Do note that in NS, there are two gamemodes . Combat or CO_ which is made for short, intense games that do not have any RTS elements in them at all and NS Classic or NS_ which is what Natural Selection is all about - the fusion of FPS and RTS.

Good luck and I do hope you enjoy Natural-Selection.

Edit: I just installed Tremulous, going to give it a shot.

well, I cant because
1. I have no Xfire
2. I have no Half-Life or CS (getting CS:S, will that do any good?)
and 3. my computer is very sucky, if I download any other game, either the comp will get messed up or my brother will kill me.


Nah, CS:S won't do you any good as it uses the new Source engine. Natural Selection is a mod for the original Half-Life. To be honest, I'm suprised that so many people don't have a copy of HL. I was under the impression that everyone and their grandmother had a copy  :D

With regards to your intention purchasing CS:S I suggest that you pick up one of those Half-Life 2 "packs" via steam or a retail copy of Half-Life 2 Platinum Edition as it includes HL2 as well as CS:S in it. You'll then be able to install a plethora of mods that are to be/have been already released.

Currently, the NS playerbase is far from its peak. The majority of NS_ classic servers are largely empty. The only servers remaining that are regularly filled are crappy heavily modded Combat (CO_) servers that are usually filled with idiots. I'll probably be free over the weekends, so once again just drop me a line when you want a game. I might be able to dredge up a few old regulars on IRC for a proper game.
Title: NATURAL SELECTION PLAYERS NEED HELP
Post by: Lava Croft on January 04, 2007, 12:16:27 pm
Another problem with NS is the fact that I bought Half-Life in 1999. The game ran fine on the computer I had at that time, a Pentium 200MHz with a 3DFX Voodoo1 card.

Now, in 2006, I install Half-Life via their new superdeluxe Steam service, only to find out the game I bought in 1999 runs like crap on a PII 400MHz, and I have yet to see any improvements to HL1 that justify the retarded performance decrease.
So even if I comply with Valve and want to use Steam, I cannot play the games I bought from them in just 6 years ago.
That justifies a serious birdflippin' to Valve. And a serious raised eyebrow to anyone who tries to tell me something positive about Valve and it's Half-Life.

And now, well, I don't think that NS and Tremulous are even competitors to the same crown, since Tremulous is free, open-source and therefore happily supports freedom, while we all know that HL1-NS is a modification, and that HL2-NS will be a modification without HL2 that will actually cost you real money.

So, comparing Tremulous to Natural Selection would be like, what, comparing Linux to Windows?
Title: NATURAL SELECTION PLAYERS NEED HELP
Post by: Kuszja on January 04, 2007, 03:10:44 pm
Spinviper, I got ns up and running I may be able to play over the weekend but when I tried at home I randomly lagged for ten seconds every couple of minutes. Though I what I got to play here wasn't too bad, just the humans are slow.

Lava Croft, that is a bad comparison since there are some linus distros that cost money. Or wait, it could be an ok comparison since Tremulous did cost something when it was still quake 3 dependant. Hmmmm...
Title: NATURAL SELECTION PLAYERS NEED HELP
Post by: holyknight on January 04, 2007, 06:37:24 pm
I don't want any Half-Life. I don't really like them anyways. All I want is Counter Strike.
Also, try and ask for standalone for NS... it's very annoying to have to buy things for games that aren't even as great as the ones you actually buy
Title: NATURAL SELECTION PLAYERS NEED HELP
Post by: techhead on January 04, 2007, 10:18:06 pm
Quake 3 was free, and is free.
I could download a copy of Quake 3 Arena right now if I wanted one.
Title: NATURAL SELECTION PLAYERS NEED HELP
Post by: Vector_Matt on January 04, 2007, 10:47:29 pm
Quote from: "techhead"
Quake 3 was free, and is free.
I could download a copy of Quake 3 Arena right now if I wanted one.
Wrong, you could legally download the source code if you wanted to, Or the demo.
Title: NATURAL SELECTION PLAYERS NEED HELP
Post by: Kaleo on January 05, 2007, 02:57:22 am
HAHA.

A few reasons why Trem is better than NS:



And thus concludes my reasons
Title: NATURAL SELECTION PLAYERS NEED HELP
Post by: Thorn on January 05, 2007, 03:16:20 am
Quote from: "MC Artman"

Half-life mapping is a pain in the ass


Hammer is a great editor...
Title: NATURAL SELECTION PLAYERS NEED HELP
Post by: Paradox on January 05, 2007, 05:54:37 am
Best editor is Gurilla or Sapian, the 2 for Halo.
Title: NATURAL SELECTION PLAYERS NEED HELP
Post by: Spinviper on January 05, 2007, 06:20:03 am
Quote from: "techhead"
Quake 3 was free, and is free.
I could download a copy of Quake 3 Arena right now if I wanted one.


Unfortunately, that is not correct. When it was originally released, you had to pay for Quake 3. It was made Open-Source on Friday, August 19, 2005. You are only legally able to download the source code.

Quote from: "Lava Croft"
HL2-NS will be a modification without HL2 that will actually cost you real money.


Actually, NS2 will not be a mod. I think they've licensed the Source engine and thus Natural-Selection 2 will be a standalone commercial game.


Quote from: "MC Artman"
HAHA.

A few reasons why Trem is better than NS:

      Trem is free. NO STEAM!!!
      Trem is avaliable on Windows, Lnux and Mac
      Trem uses the Q3 engine
      I play trem
      HalfLife mapping is a pain in the ass
      HalfLife modding is a pain in the ass
      HalfLife is a pain in the ass (somtimes)


 


Well , NS and Trem are very different games. I doubt either game could be proclaimed "better" than the other as "better" is subjective term. To each his own, lad.

Quote from: "Kuszja"
Spinviper, I got ns up and running I may be able to play over the weekend but when I tried at home I randomly lagged for ten seconds every couple of minutes. Though I what I got to play here wasn't too bad, just the humans are slow.  


Odd, do you get any sort of error? And just to clarify, are you running  3.2 Beta or 3.1 Final? Also, there does not seem to be a Xfire user named "[MaGC] Sidein" or Kuszja.

From what I've seen of Tremulous so far from the couple of games I've played, it seems very fast paced and vastly different from NS. Its great for a "quick-fix" to jump straight into the action.

Have a good weekend guys! :)
Title: NATURAL SELECTION PLAYERS NEED HELP
Post by: Bajsefar on January 05, 2007, 07:07:42 am
Yeah, trem is fast paced, but also quite strategical, you can ask me, as a chicken clanner, strategic retreats takes strategy. O.o

Yeah, good weekend to you too.
Title: NATURAL SELECTION PLAYERS NEED HELP
Post by: Lava Croft on January 05, 2007, 12:09:52 pm
Quote from: "Spinviper"
Actually, NS2 will not be a mod. I think they've licensed the Source engine and thus Natural-Selection 2 will be a standalone commercial game.

Exactly like I said, its a Half-Life 2 mod without Half-Life 2. Just like Gunman Chronicles was a Half-Life 1 mod without Half-Life. Stop sugarcoating it all.
Title: NATURAL SELECTION PLAYERS NEED HELP
Post by: Bajsefar on January 05, 2007, 03:06:52 pm
Umm, he said they licensed the source engine, which is in itself not half-life 2.
So basically it will not be a mod, since it will be built only from an engine, and not another game.
Am i right?

And stop trolling! -.-'
Title: NATURAL SELECTION PLAYERS NEED HELP
Post by: Kuszja on January 05, 2007, 03:11:55 pm
Spinviper, My steam account is just Sidein but on NS it is with the tag.
A comment for the trem community: Tell the aliens to stop being pansies!