Tremulous Forum
General => Feedback => Topic started by: Door Slammer on January 10, 2007, 08:14:21 pm
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Here's an idea gleaned from the mind of Phreak, how about allowing the defense computer to slowly rebuild human structures? Alien structures have this ability, and giving this to humans would allow humans to have a better chance against aliens come SD.
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Just to minimize confusion, DC should repair human structures rather then rebuild. Slammer used the wrong word.
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Just to minimize confusion, DC should repair human structures rather then rebuild. Slammer used the wrong word.
it should also send nukes to the alien base
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What happened to ckits repairing stuff?
Can't spare the manpower that is busy attacking the alien base?
You are attacking the alien base, right?
Don't attack, and you don't stand a chance in SD.
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Ahh, but leave the base to attack and it gets destroyed. A classic dilemma for those like myself who actually attempt to win by killing alien base, rather than through attrition.
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One dude with a ckit is all you need...
You can swap weapons and help defend the base too.
An empty base tells aliens there is trouble coming.
An attack party tells aliens that the base is undefended.
Fix two strategy problems with one person!
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One Ckit can't even save the base from ONE adv goon.
Don't be silly.
This suggestion is to get humans out of base and away from camping while slightly minimizing the risk of coming back to a dead reactor.
Unlike many of you, some of us play small games; 16 people tops-very skilled players on both sides.
Under such conditions it's very hard to attack and live while being outnumbered as well as leave base and come back to it in one place.
In other words, we can't afford to have 2+ builders/repair units.
As some of you play with us, you know we take the risk and never camp, regardles of the situation. This suggestion is not to make the game human biased. Just a tad more balanced.
I guess I'll include this DC ability with my anti-tyrant weapon mod so people can judge it in-game.
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:O anti-tyrant mod ? what about just removing tyrant if you wont give it a chance
edit:
to help stof to understand
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Listen up you little troll!
I'd suggest on reading up before you speak up, or in this case, hit the reply button.
I love tyrants and am quite good with one myself.
It's an anti tyrant weapon I'm working on, not an anti tyrant mode.
If your brain can't comprehend the difference, you have no bussines even using a computer, let alone post in this forum.
Piss off will ya.
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what is the difference between a mod and a weapon mod
so basically a weapon mod is a non-mod mod
edit:
another vital typo fixed
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what is the difference betwwen a mod and a weapon mod
so basically a weapon mod is a non-mod mod
The true question you should try to answer is "What is the difference between a mode and a mod?"
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what is the difference betwwen a mod and a weapon mod
so basically a weapon mod is a non-mod mod
The true question you should try to answer is "What is the difference between a mode and a mod?"
another one that states the obvious
it was a typo if you didnt get it
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1 c-kit does not stop any base destruction. What the hell servers do you play on that it can?
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Unlike many of you, some of us play small games; 16 people tops-very skilled players on both sides.
What server is this? I doubt there are JUST very skilled people at all times.
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Thats why you stand around with a gun and chase them off before they start destroying your base.
If they damage your base, then grab a ckit.
Also, a quick ckit can indeed save a turret from a goon by repairing between two snipes.
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1 c-kit does not stop any base destruction. What the hell servers do you play on that it can?
TEH UB3R L33T C-K1T HAX0RS 0F D00M!
Sorry couldn't help it. :D
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Thats why you stand around with a gun and chase them off before they start destroying your base.
If they damage your base, then grab a ckit.
Also, a quick ckit can indeed save a turret from a goon by repairing between two snipes.
Well thats camping now.
This is the exact reason for my suggestion.
No need to camp, no need for more then one ckit and attacking humans.
Apperently, people prefer humans to camp.
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So now back to the topic I think the reason for this suggestion is so that humans have a BETTER REASON to build a DC than it just making turrets lock on faster and allowing teslas to be built. The defense computer in its current state is practically worthless. Teslas are mostly worthless onless you can hide the DC it usually gets sniped and all of a sudden you have at the least 18 useless BPS (cost of dc plus one tesla) maybe more if you built more than one tesla. Just to reiterate. The dc is useless in most good base configurations and this ability added to it would make it worth building.
A suggestion I would have is that even with this new ability for the DC it should be possible for goons to snipe turrets in two snipes BUT if they take TOO long in sniping it would take them three snipes.
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Double the rate the Advanced CKit repairs. Then make sure it can be used during cool-down but slows the cool-down to a crawl.
Although I'd personally rather see the DC boost the speed atwhich a turret locks on and triple their range. Would be about half as accurate as a chaingun but it'd be a deterrant.
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One Ckit can't even save the base from ONE adv goon.
Don't be silly.
Yes it can. U can always wear bs is possible (even lighter armors are enough) and try to block adv goon snipes. U can also block tyrants for not reach the structures. U can the take medkit and repair and go to medistation... Figure it out :)
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U can also block tyrants for not reach the structures. U can the take medkit and repair and go to medistation... Figure it out :)
Tyrant either kills you or the building in that situation if there's no one else guarding base.
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Xonya... Its YOU. Sorry, but i can't stand U'ing..
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A different heal rate for Advanced construction kit sounds like a good idea.
The build timer goes faster, why not make it repair better?
Current is 18hp/sec
How about 18/sec normal speed and 24/sec advanced?
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A Human base is meant to take damage, to lose several defensive structures, and to be rebuilt. That is what makes those Tremulous games so goddamn tense. All the suggestions for upgrading a building that already proves its worth with making Turrets useful and Teslas possible are just obsolete. 2 Ckits and you are done. One dedicated, the other just joins in when needed.
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A Human base is meant to take damage, to lose several defensive structures, and to be rebuilt. That is what makes those Tremulous games so goddamn tense. All the suggestions for upgrading a building that already proves its worth with making Turrets useful and Teslas possible are just obsolete. 2 Ckits and you are done. One dedicated, the other just joins in when needed.
Problem still remains. in an 8 v 8 match, 6 humans are free to attack, 8 aliens are free to attack. A faster C-Kit would be very useful in helping the human team stop the base from being overrun.
Teslas are almost completely worthless. They keep dretch's from mobbing around human base and knock jumping aliens away from base. That is all they are good for.
And as Rev stated, kill the DC and now a sometimes large portion of the human defenses are dead. Base is then even more easily overrun and destroyed.
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Like slammer said, how many times have you seen a Mara jump over your Telsas onto your Reactor?
How many times have you seen it jump over your turrets onto your Reactor?
Telsas are not completely useless, but neither are they the answer to all your defensive needs.
Maybe they need a small Hp boost?
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Any base can be defended by a ckit with little trouble, if it can't then you've made a really poor base layout or you should find someone who knows how to repair stuff.
You'll never have a full alien team attacking, they'll have atleast 1 builder like humans. If they have no granger then they have no reason to fear your team, which would contradict the 'skilled' statement.
An S1 human can kill an alien base if they have no granger.
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1) Like slammer said, how many times have you seen a Mara jump over your Telsas onto your Reactor?
How many times have you seen it jump over your turrets onto your Reactor?
Telsas are not completely useless, but neither are they the answer to all your defensive needs.
2) Maybe they need a small Hp boost?
1 => Far far less than I've seen a DC killed disabling a good chunk of the human defenses
2 => Don't talk about an HP boost but about a "number of attacks before death" boost. Unfortunately, since that number is currently 2 ( adv dragoon snipe ) there is no way to give them slightly more HP : any meaningful increase would give them 50% more HP.
An S1 human can kill an alien base if they have no granger.
I just though of something important! When I was doing my usual alien base killing rushes, most of the time I don't even bother with the smaller aliens and just focus on killing the eggs while avoiding getting killed myself. Now, I've just realised how effective that is when aliens do not have a granger. Since aliens cannot devolve or check the number of eggs left without respawning, not killing them means there is a better chance none of them will notice the danger they are in before it's too late :)
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yeah, because aliens will normally take the fastest route to the human base. Just take the other route and you're set, just ask your team not to kill the aliens til you're done ;)
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yeah, because aliens will normally take the fastest route to the human base. Just take the other route and you're set, just ask your team not to kill the aliens til you're done ;)
Yeah, have your entire team camping (not so hard) and you just take the other route and blow up their base. That's how most games end anyways.
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Currently its 210 Hp.
Tyrants do 100 dmg, Barbs do 110.
So, how about 250 Hp?
Three Tyrant swipes still, but it can survive two Dragoon Barbs.
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3 * 110 is NOT 220
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U can also block tyrants for not reach the structures. U can the take medkit and repair and go to medistation... Figure it out :)
Tyrant either kills you or the building in that situation if there's no one else guarding base.
Tyrant cannot kill _you_ if u jump back onto turret/go aside from tesla after one/two hit. Usually then tyrant have got so much damage from other def things that it cannot kill defense without dieing himself/herself if u remember to repair. But if base is bad, maybe there is no point even repair.... And this wont work so well with rush because medkit doesn't work fast.
Xonya... Its YOU. Sorry, but i can't stand U'ing..
:roll:
Problem still remains. in an 8 v 8 match, 6 humans are free to attack, 8 aliens are free to attack. A faster C-Kit would be very useful in helping the human team stop the base from being overrun.
Anticipate, improve your aiming and dance better ;)
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Currently its 210 Hp.
Tyrants do 100 dmg, Barbs do 110.
So, how about 250 Hp?
Three Tyrant swipes still, but it can survive three Dragoon Barbs.
So, the point was indeed to give them 50% more HP :D ( I do count the Tesla HP in dragoon barbs )
Well, it's a pretty big change you've got there.
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Fixed above post.
And a coordinated rush is guaranteed to take out some buildings.
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Back on topic-
I like the idea, though maybe it would only repair turrets and teslas?
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Back on topic-
I like the idea, though maybe it would only repair turrets and teslas?
agreed
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LOL, it's quite cute how people are suggesting to repair base and what to do in such a situation....just cute.
We're not new players. Not even bad players. I'd even go as far as saying that we are really good players.
This suggestion is to make camping less beneficial.
If you have managed to use one ckit against the adv goon, tyrant rushing and mara on your reac, you have managed to speed up ckit repair, slowdown the goons barbs and made the mara a complete moron.
Good for you.
For us less godlike, we'd prefer a bit of use from the DC.
Come play with us on Boom Boom, Beer Garden and Potato Patch.
We'll be glad to show you how little one ckit is worth.
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We'll be glad to show you how little one ckit is worth.
All your skill is packed into this one fantastic punchline. I rest my case.
Example 1: A Tesla Generator does not break from 2 Adv. Dragoon Barbs if there is one Ckit around to repair it.
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Example 1: A Tesla Generator does not break from 2 Adv. Dragoon Barbs if there is one Ckit around to repair it.
It does break form 3 though, and goon+'s carry 3 barbs.
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Example 1: A Tesla Generator does not break from 2 Adv. Dragoon Barbs if there is one Ckit around to repair it.
It does break form 3 though, and goon+'s carry 3 barbs.
if no one is taking care of the goon yes It throws 3 barbs and leaves
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Example 1: A Tesla Generator does not break from 2 Adv. Dragoon Barbs if there is one Ckit around to repair it.
It does break form 3 though, and goon+'s carry 3 barbs.
Catch the third with your manly builder body.
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We'll be glad to show you how little one ckit is worth.
All your skill is packed into this one fantastic punchline. I rest my case.
Lava you either play mostly shitty aliens, or you blow shit out of your mouth on a regular basis cause god man you are covered in the stench...........
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lol, he actually speaks the truth, though laden in sarcasm. Maybe try and accept it rather than try and exaggerate the alien's abilities as an excuse for your teams builders being complete failures.
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Lava, I agree with you and that's how I play.
I always try to catch barbs with my body while I repair whatever got damaged. That's the main reason why I always carry armor and helmet as builder.
My suggestion is not to stop goon barbs or the importance of a builder.
It's to give the builder a chance before the goon has more barbs or another follows shortly while most of the team is out of base attacking.
The DC would kick in a few seconds after the taken damage (similar how alien structures start regen a few seconds after DMG taken).
In this case, the DC would lend a hand repairing while the ckit fixes the most damaged or most crucial structure for the second attack.
I really don't understand why this is met with such animosity.
It's not a drastic change nor a huge advantage.
2 barbs are still able to kill a tesla or turret, 3 for armo, etc.
It's simply a tad of help before someone runs back to defend+help repair.
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that is all in tremx
1.5 seconds after last damage defcom auto repair
itself 10HP/sec :: tesla 10HP/sec :: turret 8HP/sec
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I wasn't aware that TremX had it included.
I lik ethe idea of TremX but it's just tad too much change IMO.
Still fun to play :wink:
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I really don't understand why this is met with such animosity.
Because it's useless, that's why.
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I'd suggest not only letting a builder repair during the cooldown phase, but also making the DC only be required to build teslas. I'd suggest that we make teslas without a DC only half as powerful (still keeping dretches out), but not completely destroying a tesla base when the DC goes. Reducing its cost would also make it more useful to many human teams in places other than SST.
Failing those, we could just make teslas more worthwhile by making them more powerful than turrets in raw attack. :roll:
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If you have managed to use one ckit against the adv goon, tyrant rushing and mara on your reac,
if you can protect a whole base from that with ONE ckit, then the enemy is either severly retarted...or their mouse is broken...seriously!, you CANNOT protect a base with one ckit, ppl! all it takes is ONE adv goon!...2 barbs on that turret one barb on that one over there...zOMG which one do i stay at to repair!?...goon comes from around the corner BOOM BOOM BOOM goodbye armoury!, goon runs away...OH CRAP I NEED TO BUILD THE ARMOURY...goon comes back snipe snipe bye bye turret snipe the one beside it 2 for the price of one!...ANYWAY the point is that one ckit protecting the base is worth SHIT, automated defences are worth SHIT unless backed up by human support, a defcom that increases turrets range and repairs structures will make base defences need less human support, less human support = less camping = less noobs yelling COME OUT CAMPERS = less ppl yelling back IF HUMMIES HAD REGENERATING HP AND BUILT IN RADARS WE WOULDNT CAMP, NOOBTARDS! = better gameplay
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Exactly the reason for this, Plague Bringer.
I guess it all depends where you play.
I've joined servers and eaten the reac with the mara followed by being called a cheater and vote kicked.
If these are the servers you play on, my idea is unnecessary.
However, if you play with people that have skills, understand the firing distance of turrets, HP of structures, reac weakspots, etc my idea is quite usefull as well as balanced as far as gameplay goes.
As far as Lavas moroniuc flaming goes.
I'd have to be brain-dead to listen to a guy who builds a base in Tremor's dead end hall and makes only one spawn in order to prevent his team from feeding!
Guess who won the match? (regardles of the fact that humans where whoopin ass the entire game, leaving aliens with only one egg)
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As far as Lavas moroniuc flaming goes.
I'd have to be brain-dead to listen to a guy who builds a base in Tremor's dead end hall and makes only one spawn in order to prevent his team from feeding!
Yeah, guess who won that game because the Aliens had S3 before I could even move the base. That is why you feeders only get one node.
Also, it has been stated here before that you need 2 Ckits for proper base repairing.
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/OFF
Lava,
while aliens did get s3 before you could "finish" the base, humans got s3 at least a few minutes before aliens did.
So I guess, you're just a slow builder.
/ON
Oh so now it's 2 ckits that are needed.
Well, first it was "u N00b get ckit, uz dumb if u cant fix base with 1 ckit"
and now its 2.
Hm, how about the whole team grabs a ckit and we all live happily ever after.
Please refrain from posting in this thread. We get that you don't like the idea. Move on.
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@lava i'm gonna have to agree with PHReAK here, if you dont like an idea, either dont post, or make a suggestion as to how the idea can be improved. if you can repair a base and chase away a tyrant and adv goon at the same time, good for you, you must be one of the humans who enjoys being called a camper. Oh, and the defcom would TAKE THE PLACE of a ckit allowing EVERY player to go out and fight, dont tell me you dont agree with that!
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I guess I'll include this DC ability with my anti-tyrant weapon mod so people can judge it in-game.
anti-tyrant weapon = pulse rifle.
I like the defcomp auto-repair idea. It would make the defcomp actually a desirable item instead of a cheap weak point added to your base.
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@lava i'm gonna have to agree with PHReAK here, if you dont like an idea, either dont post, or make a suggestion as to how the idea can be improved.
Without entering enter the debate raging in this thread (anyone with common sense can see which side is correct) thats an absurd outlook to have on the feedback forum.
If no one ever posted to say ideas were bad all the threads would read like everyone agreed on everything making the most absurd ideas look good. :roll:
Mind you since timbo falls firmly into the category with common sense it probably wouldn't matter that much, though it would cause or rather encourage the current trend of idiotic posting here
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Without entering enter the debate raging in this thread (anyone with common sense can see which side is correct) thats an absurd outlook to have on the feedback forum.
If no one ever posted to say ideas were bad all the threads would read like everyone agreed on everything making the most absurd ideas look good. :roll:
I guess it is an infinite love of balance that causes some people to ALWAYS say an idea is bad.