Tremulous Forum
General => General Discussion => Topic started by: Nosfore on January 19, 2007, 04:39:23 am
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I've been disgusted each time I played ATCS lately. It's on almost every server map rotation. I can't seem to find a server without it on the map rotation and consequently many good maps are rarely seen.
I would like to know if other players feel the same. If so, well ask server administrator to remove it from the map rotation.
Thanks in advance for your feedback.
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i agree
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I've been disgusted each time I played ATCS lately. It's on almost every server map rotation. I can't seem to find a server without it on the map rotation and consequently many good maps are rarely seen.
I would like to know if other players feel the same. If so, well ask server administrator to remove it from the map rotation.
Thanks in advance for your feedback.
It's the perfect map for clan matching, so i like to play it often to stay sharp there, other than that i wouldn't mind not playing on it as often.
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What makes you think that asking a server operator to remove it will result in anything?
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Go to Beta Serv or }MG{ Beta Server :)
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or stay spectator until the match is finished.
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This is a crappy training map, if i could undertand it succes in ffa, i can't understand how so many teams could match on it.
This is a nub map with no gameplay.
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"]This is a nub map with no gameplay.
You are a nub with no brains.
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It's a very good map if you want complete balance, but I for one can't find it fun. I'd prefer a map of Transit.
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While I enjoy ATCS, I do agree that playing there is rinse and repeat.
Every single match on ATCS is pretty much the same.
Since the map is very horizontal and small, it doesn't allow for funky base moves, lead shifts, etc.
If you start out strong, you're gonna win; human or alien.
I personaly preffer medium sized maps since they are small enough for humans to attack with confidence while big enough for aliens to spread building and really play like they are meant to. Not just goons and tyrants but everything in between.
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I am getting bored with it I've played it at least 7 times more than the other default maps <.<
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You are a nub with no brains.
Nice reply in relation with the topic with so interesting arguments and proofs, or maybe i m too brainless to see it.
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"]You are a nub with no brains.
Nice reply in relation with the topic with so interesting arguments and proofs, or maybe i m too brainless to see it.
You provided no proof for your original comment.
I personally don't mind ATCS, but I think servers do play it way too much sometimes.
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I am VERY tired of ATCS. I have begun moving to other servers if it is up.
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There are plenty of other broken maps. ACTS is just a map where everyone knows what to do.
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What makes you think that asking a server operator to remove it will result in anything?
Good will and good arguments get good results.
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"]You are a nub with no brains.
Nice reply in relation with the topic with so interesting arguments and proofs, or maybe i m too brainless to see it.
"]This is a crappy training map, if i could undertand it succes in ffa, i can't understand how so many teams could match on it.
This is a nub map with no gameplay.
Yes, your reply showed off a lot more arguments against ATCS. I note crappy, nub and no gameplay. All three of which are wrong. So before you point out somebody else's lack of good arguments, maybe check your initial post to see if it might be a reaction to something.
ATCS is not a bad map, it is just a simple map and because most Tremulous players are simple folk, they end up playing it a lot. When we removed ATCS from our rotation on SatGNU, people started moaning and voting for it, so they do like it. Stop trying to be cool and go ATCS-bashing. There are far worse 3rd party maps.
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Atcszalpha b1 is a good rendition of the map.
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You want some argument ? Ok
You need to be blind to not seeing :
This map have no more gameplay than
-Rush corridor
-Rush outside.
WHATASTRATEGY !!!!
(here you have the "no gameplay")
It's funny to TRAIN, cose you don't have to cross miles before meet an ennemy, So it's easy for "new blood" to enjoy it when they come on the game. Then for me it's a newby map.
(here you have the "nub")
And "crappy" is a personal conception cose i think the tremulous gameplay is made for bigger map than "an outside room and a corridor".
(here you have the crappy)
But it's more easy, when you re a regular poster, to say "OLOLOLOL NUB §§§§" than ask "why".
.Eye
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Because hunting egg spam for 30 minutes at sub-30 fps until aliens get s3 is the most fun thing in the world. WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO transit.
ATCS may not have many options on where the build, but the default bases have the potential to be built very well and are far more builder friendly than maps like transit, where 95% of alien bases can have the OM shot from a mile away.
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"]You want some argument ? Ok
You need to be blind to not seeing :
This map have no more gameplay than
-Rush corridor
-Rush outside.
WHATASTRATEGY !!!!
(here you have the "no gameplay")
It's funny to TRAIN, cose you don't have to cross miles before meet an ennemy, So it's easy for "new blood" to enjoy it when they come on the game. Then for me it's a newby map.
(here you have the "nub")
And "crappy" is a personal conception cose i think the tremulous gameplay is made for bigger map than "an outside room and a corridor".
(here you have the crappy)
But it's more easy, when you re a regular poster, to say "OLOLOLOL NUB §§§§" than ask "why".
.Eye
LOL!!
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"]You want some argument ?
Bring it on.
"]You need to be blind to not seeing :
This map have no more gameplay than
-Rush corridor
-Rush outside.
WHATASTRATEGY !!!!
(here you have the "no gameplay")
This is usually the strategy Humans must use to win a game of Tremulous.
Perhaps you are the kind of player that applies another well-known strategy?
"]It's funny to TRAIN, cose you don't have to cross miles before meet an ennemy, So it's easy for "new blood" to enjoy it when they come on the game. Then for me it's a newby map.
(here you have the "nub")
The distance between default bases is pretty close on all stock maps, that is beside the insane idea that having the two opposing bases close to each other inherently means the map is 'nub'. Perhaps your own lack of insight is to blame for this misconception.
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I vote that its alright to play it once in a while.
Its a nice simple map, Ill give you that.
However, I just feel sometimes having the map being voted 3-4 times in a row is just not fun.
You play Humans.
Then Aliens.
Then Humans.
Then once again Aliens.
Then you realise that youve just spent (upto) 3hrs playing on the same map, performing very similar tactics every round.
I want to play it like every other map-
Play it once, then move on.
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I vote that its alright to play it once in a while.
Its a nice simple map, Ill give you that.
However, I just feel sometimes having the map being voted 3-4 times in a row is just not fun.
You play Humans.
Then Aliens.
Then Humans.
Then once again Aliens.
Then you realise that youve just spent (upto) 3hrs playing on the same map, performing very similar tactics every round.
I want to play it like every other map-
Play it once, then move on.
I voted the same. It *is* a nub map, but it is very valuable for training nubs. I don't play the same game over and over, I practice killwhoring one game if there are lots of feeders, then practice ambushing if the opponents are better, then despair and camp as builder (letting the good players push the team to s3) if the opponents are really good :-) Each of those situations teaches the player something about tactics and fighting skill and teamwork, and with a really simple map it's easier to draw useful conclusions. And while ATCS isn't a strategy map, it can teach building strategy 101 - whether or not to waste bp on a forward minibase, whether to move to the center, how to distribute bps on various defense options, etc. It takes lots of repetitions to be able to distinguish poor strategy from poor execution, and a TRAINING simulator takes lots of distracting variables out of the picture.
I enjoy playing with Nosfore*; he's a good and patient team coach and never a whiner like some of the superstars. But I've rarely seen ATCS voted in repeatedly on most servers, and the "all ATCS all the time" random-seed seems to have disappeared. Leave it in the normal rotation.
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* PS, I entered late onto an ATCS alien base recently with lots of trappers and fewer tubes, and thought: "finally, a builder with my style". I think Nosfore was the builder, but perhaps not.
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I would like to thank you all for the feedback and votes.
Now I know that the majority likes the map and don't mind playing it often. Complaining about will only piss everybody off. Wich is bad.
From now on, I will simply stop playing it by changing server or spectating instead of trying to convince other players that ATCS is the worst map.
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I like it in the rotation, but the maps that have it in the rotation 2 or 3 times along with the map votes tend to get annoying.
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ATCS is hard core painsaw or goon action baby! If you don't like ATCS, well, you're probably one of those many boring players who thinks the map is for Advanced Turret Camping Stalemate.
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Atcszalpha b1 is a good rendition of the map.
I hate that map, totally against the spirit of ACTS, which is combat. Actszalpha has 1 way in or out for the default bases and its pretty much 'camp' friendly.
The vents don't count as a real 'entrance' and become feeder areas.
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ATCS is hard core painsaw or goon action baby!
OMG on wich game are you playing ?
When i have a goon, humans are all in their bunker, only 1 pounce inside and i could just get out cose i toke 150 damage from 7 campers + 7 turrets, so i just could wait the only humans who try to get out ... WHATA HARDCORE GOON ACTION BABY !
Painsaw action ? Olololol, when i m human, if i start playing in the first seconds, you will not need a painsaw, i ll do the job with my lmg/lasgun/pulse/lucy (s1/s1/s2/s3) (this map is easy in human when you could aim). If there is no aimzor-rusher like me in the game, All humans are campers cose 3 lolers feed some goon in the first 2 min. How do you want to reach the aliens base alone with a painsaw and 5 goons in aliens team, you are invisible ? And when i m goon, nothing make me laught more than a painsaw rusher alone.
If i don't like atcs, its because all humans are "boring players who thinks the map is for Advanced Turret Camping Stalemate."
.Eye
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Actually, psaw rushes on ATCS can be devistatingly effective, particularly against a newbe builder who doesn't know to build the 2 acid tubes on the OM side ramp so humans can't just run up and take out the eggs and OM ;)
Seeing groups of 4-5 humans psawing alien base can often mean the end of game, unless you build a trapper base :P which I love. I' ve seen lone psaws rush in and take out OM, inspiring their human team to rush the aliens who end up a dretch flood that raises humans to s2 really quickly if the humans don't altogether end the game. The best clan in tremulous right now is the psaw rushers (http://tremulous.net/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=3329) :P
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The things that annoy me most about ATCS.
1. People who join, call a vote for ATCS, and leave if their vote fails.
2. People who leave when they hit the next map in rotation after ATCS.
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Taking out the OM solo with a painsaw rush in ATCS is rather easy since no alien bigger than a Dretch can go behind the OM :D
Also, about the 2 acid tubes on the ramp, I'll just say that it is possible to jump from one side of the room to the other, without using the ramp ;)
Still, it requires you to come to the alien base by the underground tunnel.
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The only thing that makes ATCS Alien base kind of secure, apart from big Aliens, is good use of Trappers. Nothing is more annoying than Luci-jumping to the OM, only to find out you have been trapped and are being munched on.
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The only thing that makes ATCS Alien base kind of secure, apart from big Aliens, is good use of Trappers. Nothing is more annoying than Luci-jumping to the OM, only to find out you have been trapped and are being munched on.
Yeah, it is a failing I have ( probably too much psaw rush when I was young ). But honestly, when you want to luci the OM on ATCS? by all means do NOT go near the OM. Stay on the opposing ledge instead and only go to the place where the OM was once you've killed it :) That way, you can finish the hidden eggs without beehing bothered by those annoying trappers.
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The only thing that makes ATCS Alien base kind of secure, apart from big Aliens, is good use of Trappers. Nothing is more annoying than Luci-jumping to the OM, only to find out you have been trapped and are being munched on.
Yeah, it is a failing I have ( probably too much psaw rush when I was young ). But honestly, when you want to luci the OM on ATCS? by all means do NOT go near the OM. Stay on the opposing ledge instead and only go to the place where the OM was once you've killed it :) That way, you can finish the hidden eggs without beehing bothered by those annoying trappers.
luci jumping up to the om is extremely effective when the granger builds the ever popular hovel on the ramp, and 3 tyrants stare in horror as you luci the om and then the eggs.
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Thats why i always put tubes around the OM.
If nothing else, its plenty discouraging.
Side question, does anyone else use acid tubes to shield eggs from enemy fire, like a mini barricade?
Most people don't notice that they are there, and waste an extra clip on them.
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And that's why I try to kill the OM from far away. As soon as you can see it, you can shoot it :)
The other reason is that killing an OM from close range with a luci hurts a lot.
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"]This is a nub map with no gameplay.
You are a nub with no brains.
Mr. Clean, LOL!
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Thats why i always put tubes around the OM.
If nothing else, its plenty discouraging.
Side question, does anyone else use acid tubes to shield eggs from enemy fire, like a mini barricade?
Most people don't notice that they are there, and waste an extra clip on them.
I always put tubes around the OM, the hovel right in front of it to catch a few luci balls, and as many trappers as possible elsewhere. Some tyrants have asked for the hovel to go, usually they don't, and I don't really know whether it does any good. (The hovel does great as an exploding door muncher in Karith, though. :-)
Tubes shielding eggs might be good with lots of bp, but for normal bp I think trappers and defenders are more effective. I can't count the times all the eggs in an empty base were killed silently before the human scum even touched the OM, so a defender is essential (if only to sound the alarm after dying) .
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I put the hovel on the stairs, but theres always goons and dretches to defend. Also, if i dont get the chance to move the om back that one foot, i just put an acid behind the om which is very effective against psaw rushers 8)
and yes, I've also tried the acids in front of eggs trick, but i like using those points on trappers.
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I like ATCS. Its a fun map and is, in my opinion, the best map for clan wars. Its small, simple and even n00bs can play it. :D
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I'm all for this, this will be a welcome change since so many servers are ATCS only. ATCS is fun and all but the map really isn't all that great and I wished more players would be willing to play user made maps.
I hate it when a game has a map that is played to death on almost every server.
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There's now an exception from !cancelvote admin rule for ATCS on KOCOUR-CZ. ATCS vote spammers will be kicked.
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Good, I have no problem with kicking those that join a game 10 minutes in and then vote for atcs.