Tremulous Forum

General => General Discussion => Topic started by: Soroku on February 01, 2007, 09:49:33 pm

Title: hey does trem need a graphics card to run?
Post by: Soroku on February 01, 2007, 09:49:33 pm
hey yeah im new and before i install it do i need a graphics card to run it? thanks because i really want to play this
Title: hey does trem need a graphics card to run?
Post by: TinMan on February 01, 2007, 09:58:47 pm
You usually need a graphics card to be able to use a computer normally, playing tremulous with no video can be tricky if you don't have good headphones/speakers and something like ventrillo, gamecomm, or teamspeak.

However, most video cards can handle tremulous, it uses the Quake 3 engine which is from late 1999. What is your computer's onboard video card? (the one built in)

Most likely you'll be able to run it, if not then you can purchase a cheap NVIDIA RIVA TNT 2 for PCI or VGA (whichever you have free to use) for around $10-25 and play decently on that.
Title: hey does trem need a graphics card to run?
Post by: fourchannel on February 01, 2007, 10:04:16 pm
Yes, you do need a card. For a tremulous server, I don't think that you do. Almost all personal computers have graphics cards in them, not all the cards are good enough to play trem, though. If you do have a card, what kind is it? GeForce, Radeon, NVIDIA, ATI? etc...

Quote
System requirements:

800 MHz x86 CPU
256 MB RAM
32 MB nVIDIA GeForce2 or ATi Radeon 7000
Stereo sound card
125 MB free hard drive space
56 kbit/s Internet connection
Title: hey does trem need a graphics card to run?
Post by: next_ghost on February 01, 2007, 10:18:25 pm
Quote from: "TinMan"
You usually need a graphics card to be able to use a computer normally, playing tremulous with no video can be tricky if you don't have good headphones/speakers and something like ventrillo, gamecomm, or teamspeak.


AAlib & TTY FTW! :D
Title: hey does trem need a graphics card to run?
Post by: [EVIL]Unknown on February 01, 2007, 11:28:00 pm
<---- onboard video ftw!!!!

if u have onboard a good processor helps compensate a bit. i get a good 43 fps on any server including sst. 43 is what i have it maxed out to. :P
Title: hey does trem need a graphics card to run?
Post by: Taiyo.uk on February 01, 2007, 11:32:23 pm
Quote from: "next_ghost"
AAlib & TTY FTW! :D

...on a VT100 terminal!
Title: hey does trem need a graphics card to run?
Post by: Soroku on February 01, 2007, 11:50:13 pm
k thanks so which one do i download? the 1.1.0 one? or the 1.0.2 one or the quake 3 version of 1.0.2
Title: hey does trem need a graphics card to run?
Post by: Survivor on February 01, 2007, 11:51:41 pm
1.1.0 unless you want overpowered tyrants and empty servers
Title: hey does trem need a graphics card to run?
Post by: PHREAK on February 02, 2007, 03:00:44 am
No need for a card but the game won't look all that great.
Just until a few days ago I was forced to play with Intel Extreme 2 and I got a steady 90 FPS cap at lowest settings.(My original card fried, literally, smoke and all!)

If you know anything about game engines, you know that Q3 is much more dependent on the CPU rather then GPU. This is a great benefit since a lot more players have fast processors rather then fast cards.
Combination of both is the best way to go.
So essentially, you should have a dedicated card but it's not requiered, depending on the rest of your hardware configuration.
Title: hey does trem need a graphics card to run?
Post by: Henners on February 02, 2007, 03:22:21 am
Er Actually I believe you do need a card of some sort. No software mode on the quake3 engine. Was a big fuss about it when q3 came out as I recall.
Title: hey does trem need a graphics card to run?
Post by: TinMan on February 02, 2007, 04:27:45 am
Quote from: "next_ghost"
AAlib & TTY FTW! :D

ZOMG ASCII QIII!

Those system requirements posted above are highly inaccurate, I've run medium settings on way worse specs and with high bp.
Title: Re: hey does trem need a graphics card to run?
Post by: Vector_Matt on February 02, 2007, 02:24:45 pm
Quote from: "Soroku"
do i need a graphics card to run it? thanks because i really want to play this
Yes, and if you can see this post it means you already have a graphics card. A graphics card is what sends the data to the monitor.
Title: Re: hey does trem need a graphics card to run?
Post by: Taiyo.uk on February 02, 2007, 02:30:33 pm
Quote from: "Vector_Matt"
Quote from: "Soroku"
do i need a graphics card to run it? thanks because i really want to play this
Yes, and if you can see this post it means you already have a graphics card. A graphics card is what sends the data to the monitor.

So what makes you think he's not using Lynx over a dumb terminal?
Title: hey does trem need a graphics card to run?
Post by: polish farmer boy on February 02, 2007, 03:50:56 pm
IMHO those who responded on this topic have been...

seduced by average troll <3

(excluding me lol)

(http://www.superindustriallove.com/images/main-images/hfs-christmas-ornament.jpg)[/img]
Title: hey does trem need a graphics card to run?
Post by: tuple on February 02, 2007, 04:54:13 pm
Meh, who needs a video card (http://artax.karlin.mff.cuni.cz/~brain/0verkill/)
Title: hey does trem need a graphics card to run?
Post by: polish farmer boy on February 02, 2007, 05:57:31 pm
Quote from: "tuple"
Meh, who needs a video card (http://artax.karlin.mff.cuni.cz/~brain/0verkill/)


after watching this link

4 the very first time

i am not sure what to write



reality is stranger then fiction
Title: hey does trem need a graphics card to run?
Post by: tomek-k on February 02, 2007, 07:02:08 pm
Quote from: "tuple"
Meh, who needs a video card (http://artax.karlin.mff.cuni.cz/~brain/0verkill/)
:eek:
Title: hey does trem need a graphics card to run?
Post by: TinMan on February 02, 2007, 07:29:33 pm
Quote from: "tuple"
Meh, who needs a video card (http://artax.karlin.mff.cuni.cz/~brain/0verkill/)

I play that game, I'd own you. lol

You still need a GPU to play it though.
Title: hey does trem need a graphics card to run?
Post by: Soroku on February 03, 2007, 02:29:53 am
hey i can play without a graphics card
                                                 
ingame name:Soroku
Title: hey does trem need a graphics card to run?
Post by: vcxzet on February 03, 2007, 02:47:58 am
Quote from: "Soroku"
hey i can play without a graphics card
                                                 
ingame name:Soroku

your aimbot owns
Title: hey does trem need a graphics card to run?
Post by: Henners on February 04, 2007, 09:36:26 am
Quote
Yes, and if you can see this post it means you already have a graphics card. A graphics card is what sends the data to the monitor.


Onboard SVGA exists you know. Hence why there was a fuss when quake3 came out as it was the first game with no software mode for graphics and not everyone had a graphics card...
Title: hey does trem need a graphics card to run?
Post by: PHREAK on February 04, 2007, 09:48:11 am
/OFF
To all those morons with an IQ lower then 85:
When one talks about a graphics card in a game forum, it generally means a dedicated PCI, AGP or PCIe interfaced board that contains a GPU, one or more memory chips and so on.

Onboard adapter does not fall into this category.
So next time you chose to act smart and geeky, try not to make a complete idiot out of yourself.
/ON
Title: hey does trem need a graphics card to run?
Post by: tomek-k on February 04, 2007, 02:04:54 pm
Quote from: "PHREAK"
/OFF
To all those morons with an IQ lower then 85:
When one talks about a graphics card in a game forum, it generally means a dedicated PCI, AGP or PCIe interfaced board that contains a GPU, one or more memory chips and so on.

Onboard adapter does not fall into this category.
So next time you chose to act smart and geeky, try not to make a complete idiot out of yourself.
/ON


Heh?
The so called onboard adapter can also have a GPU. And you can play trem with such.
So your explanation of the term 'graphics card' is inconsistent.

Moreover you don't need a GPU to play trem - a so-called 3D accelerator (which contains chips responsible for 3D acceleration but w/o hardware support for transformations and lighting) is also enough. And it also can be integrated with the mainboard.
Title: hey does trem need a graphics card to run?
Post by: n00b pl0x on February 04, 2007, 05:50:12 pm
is a iq of 10 higher or lower than 85? im not sure if that was directed towards me or not
Title: hey does trem need a graphics card to run?
Post by: PHREAK on February 04, 2007, 06:59:56 pm
@tomek-k
I said "...dedicated PCI, AGP or PCIe interfaced board that contains a GPU, one or more memory chips and so on..."
The GPU itself doesn't make it a graphics card.
Also, if you read my initial post in this thread, you'll see that I completly agree that Trem doesn't need a dedicated card to run. As of a week or so ago, I was one of the people running trem with onboard graphics (Intel Extreme 2 to be exact) and it ran fine as far as framerates go, but didn't look too appealing.
Title: GMA950 Integrated Graphics Processor
Post by: player1 on February 04, 2007, 09:37:52 pm
Plays like Quake. Looks like Quake. Made from Quake. MacBook+Tremulous= :D (64MB RAM shared btw. GPU & CPU). I think it's been said elsewhere, but I believe this game engine gets as much speed from the CPU as the graphics card/chipset/integrated processor.
Title: hey does trem need a graphics card to run?
Post by: tomek-k on February 04, 2007, 10:18:28 pm
Quote from: "PHREAK"
@tomek-k
I said "...dedicated PCI, AGP or PCIe interfaced board that contains a GPU, one or more memory chips and so on..."
The GPU itself doesn't make it a graphics card.
Also, if you read my initial post in this thread, you'll see that I completly agree that Trem doesn't need a dedicated card to run. As of a week or so ago, I was one of the people running trem with onboard graphics (Intel Extreme 2 to be exact) and it ran fine as far as framerates go, but didn't look too appealing.


ok. I understand :wink:
Title: hey does trem need a graphics card to run?
Post by: TinMan on February 04, 2007, 11:06:28 pm
Tremulous requires GPU.
Title: hey does trem need a graphics card to run?
Post by: next_ghost on February 05, 2007, 09:27:04 am
Quote from: "TinMan"
Tremulous requires GPU.


No graphic chips prior to GeForce 256 were GPUs. Yet Tremulous will run on things as old as Riva TNT, ATi Rage 128 or Voodoo.
Title: hey does trem need a graphics card to run?
Post by: DASPRiD on February 05, 2007, 09:52:32 am
(http://kadreg.free.fr/perso/conneries/i-want-to-believe-fx.jpg)
Title: hey does trem need a graphics card to run?
Post by: NiTRoX on February 05, 2007, 10:23:53 am
___________________
     /                             __()  > > > > > > > >  > >>
    /       ____________/
   /        )
  /____/

BOOM!
Title: hey does trem need a graphics card to run?
Post by: tomek-k on February 05, 2007, 10:37:10 am
hehe. sometime ago I had an old matrox millenium g400. it hasn't got GPU and I could play.

No OpenGL game requires GPU to be run - if some feature is not hardware accelerated then the OpenGL driver just uses the software mode (uses CPU for this feature).
Thus every OpenGL app. written before the GPU era will take advantage of this processor when run on machine which has it (you don't need to change a single line of it's source code).

But if you can't run Trem (or any other OGL app) on some machine with an old OpenGL driver or with only software/generic/indirect OpenGL driver, then it's because the game checks if the driver is apropirate. If it hadn't been checking for it you would be able to run Trem on such computer, but it would be terribly slow.

Besides, there is no way in OpenGL to check if the GPU is present (maby only by checking if the driver supports hardware vertex and fragment shaders, but i'm not sure about this).
Title: hey does trem need a graphics card to run?
Post by: gareth on February 05, 2007, 01:13:54 pm
enlighten your nubcaken: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gpu
Title: hey does trem need a graphics card to run?
Post by: TinMan on February 05, 2007, 10:16:35 pm
Quote from: "next_ghost"

No graphic chips prior to GeForce 256 were GPUs. Yet Tremulous will run on things as old as Riva TNT, ATi Rage 128 or Voodoo.

Lies, GPUs have been around since the 70's. I have owned all of the cards that you've listed and they all have a GPU.

GPU = Graphics Processing Unit
Title: hey does trem need a graphics card to run?
Post by: tomek-k on February 05, 2007, 10:20:04 pm
Quote from: "gareth"
enlighten your nubcaken: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gpu

What's your point? the text is rather long :P :P :P
Title: hey does trem need a graphics card to run?
Post by: tomek-k on February 05, 2007, 10:23:46 pm
Quote from: "TinMan"
Quote from: "next_ghost"

No graphic chips prior to GeForce 256 were GPUs. Yet Tremulous will run on things as old as Riva TNT, ATi Rage 128 or Voodoo.

Lies, GPUs have been around since the 70's. I have owned all of the cards that you've listed and they all have a GPU.

GPU = Graphics Processing Unit


Matrox Millenium G400 has no Graphics Processing Unit!
It has only a chip that does some 3D stuff, but does no transformations and lighting.

GPU is a unit that does ALL the 3d stuff, INCLUDING transformations of the scene/view/objects and the lighting
.
Title: hey does trem need a graphics card to run?
Post by: TinMan on February 05, 2007, 10:56:38 pm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Graphics_processing_unit

GPUs don't just do 3D rendering/transformation, they also do 2D.

Quote
The G400 is a video card made by Matrox, released in September 1999. The graphics processor contains a 2D GUI, video, and Direct3D 6.0 3D accelerator. Codenamed "Toucan", it was a more powerful and refined version of its predecessor, the G200.

Graphics Processor = GPU.
Title: hey does trem need a graphics card to run?
Post by: tomek-k on February 06, 2007, 11:08:16 am
Quote from: "TinMan"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Graphics_processing_unit

GPUs don't just do 3D rendering/transformation, they also do 2D.

Quote
The G400 is a video card made by Matrox, released in September 1999. The graphics processor contains a 2D GUI, video, and Direct3D 6.0 3D accelerator. Codenamed "Toucan", it was a more powerful and refined version of its predecessor, the G200.

Graphics Processor = GPU.


blah blah blah...

Quote from: "next_ghost"
No graphic chips prior to GeForce 256 were GPUs. Yet Tremulous will run on things as old as Riva TNT, ATi Rage 128 or Voodoo.

That's true!

Don't belive me? Then Look:
http://www.nvidia.com/page/geforce256.html

and the Wikipedia if you prefer:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GeForce_256

from the above link:
Quote from: "wikipedia"
(...) "the world's first 'GPU', or Graphics Processing Unit," a term NVIDIA had just coined and was defined as "a single-chip processor with integrated transform, lighting, triangle setup/clipping, and rendering engines that is capable of processing a minimum of 10 million polygons per second." (...)


The term GPU didn't even exist before GeForce 256!
Everything before was just a graphics chip or chipset and nobody called it a GPU.
Title: hey does trem need a graphics card to run?
Post by: SLAVE|Mietz on February 06, 2007, 01:26:12 pm
remember kids, not everything on wikipedia is true...
Title: hey does trem need a graphics card to run?
Post by: Ingar on February 06, 2007, 07:11:24 pm
All this graphic card mania is just plain silly. It's like putting a small (expensive and fast) computer in your computer to handle the graphics.

What we need are those fancy next-generation dual-core CPU/GPU combo's.

Oh wait, make that eight cores.
Title: hey does trem need a graphics card to run?
Post by: Plague Bringer on February 06, 2007, 09:41:13 pm
Quote from: "Survivor"
1.1.0 unless you want overpowered tyrants and empty servers
sheesh, wait for 1.2.0 unless you want overpowered tyrants  :tyrant: -RAAAWR!!!!  :helmet: -...shit... GET THE NUKE
Title: hey does trem need a graphics card to run?
Post by: tomek-k on February 06, 2007, 11:03:11 pm
Quote from: "Plague Bringer"
Quote from: "Survivor"
1.1.0 unless you want overpowered tyrants and empty servers
sheesh, wait for 1.2.0 unless you want overpowered tyrants  :tyrant: -RAAAWR!!!!  :helmet: -...shit... GET THE NUKE


yeah...
 :tyrant: =  :battlesuit: + :battlesuit: + :battlesuit: + :battlesuit:
Title: hey does trem need a graphics card to run?
Post by: Survivor on February 06, 2007, 11:10:34 pm
Quote from: "Plague Bringer"
Quote from: "Survivor"
1.1.0 unless you want overpowered tyrants and empty servers
sheesh, wait for 1.2.0 unless you want overpowered tyrants  :tyrant: -RAAAWR!!!!  :helmet: -...shit... GET THE NUKE


Go play 1.0.2, alone.
Title: hey does trem need a graphics card to run?
Post by: leilei on February 06, 2007, 11:35:58 pm
Well yeah, non 3dfx cards suck because they dont have t-buffering and glide suipport so ahhahahahaha!!!!![/markettermbrainwashedidiot]
Title: hey does trem need a graphics card to run?
Post by: Evlesoa on February 07, 2007, 12:03:51 am
I got nothing 2 say, except ur a frikin idiot, and know NOTHING about computers... If you got a plain computer, and no graphics card, the monitor will be blank... try it...

Next time, use GOOGLE its ur best friend, or WIKIPEDIA, cuz wiki knows everythin about tremulous...

Have a nice day! Dummy
Title: hey does trem need a graphics card to run?
Post by: prab on February 07, 2007, 03:23:58 am
I run it at about 45 frames/sec on an integrated card. This is enough for me, but when the room gets crowded, I drop to 15ish. That causes headaches (literaly). Its your choice.
1. Is it a laptop?
2. Do you have the money to spend?
Title: hey does trem need a graphics card to run?
Post by: Taiyo.uk on February 07, 2007, 10:16:15 am
The Q3 engine was written before any consumer graphics hardware could do transform and lighting. Therefore these features are not necessary to run Tremulous. Games that use the Q3 engine are bound by CPU and/or memory on modern systems. Recent integrated graphics are sufficient to run Tremulous.
Title: hey does trem need a graphics card to run?
Post by: NiTRoX on February 07, 2007, 10:42:58 am
Quote from: "SLAVE|Mietz"
remember kids, not everything on wikipedia is true...


Yeah but everything on this (http://www.uncyclopedia.org) site is. :P
Title: hey does trem need a graphics card to run?
Post by: tomek-k on February 07, 2007, 12:40:43 pm
Quote from: "Taiyo.uk"
The Q3 engine was written before any consumer graphics hardware could do transform and lighting. Therefore these features are not necessary to run Tremulous (...)


Your'e right. But Q3 engine uses OpenGL and therefore it takes advantage of the hardware transform and lighting. You can't enable or disable it in OpenGL API - you just write your OGL code and if it is beeing run on a card (or on an integrated graphics controller) with T&L support then it just uses it. If you run the same binary on a card w/o hw T&L then your program just uses CPU for this stuff.
It's because in OpenGL such things as T&L are managed on the level of the graphics driver and not on the level of the API.
Title: hey does trem need a graphics card to run?
Post by: leilei on February 07, 2007, 07:14:06 pm
Quote from: "tomek-k"
Your'e right. But Q3 engine uses OpenGL and therefore it takes advantage of the hardware transform and lighting. You can't enable or disable it in OpenGL API - you just write your OGL code and if it is beeing run on a card (or on an integrated graphics controller) with T&L support then it just uses it. If you run the same binary on a card w/o hw T&L then your program just uses CPU for this stuff.
It's because in OpenGL such things as T&L are managed on the level of the graphics driver and not on the level of the API.


Man, I wished OpenGL would work like that. Too bad it's not true.
Title: hey does trem need a graphics card to run?
Post by: tomek-k on February 07, 2007, 08:19:45 pm
Quote from: "leilei"
Quote from: "tomek-k"
Your'e right. But Q3 engine uses OpenGL and therefore it takes advantage of the hardware transform and lighting. You can't enable or disable it in OpenGL API - you just write your OGL code and if it is beeing run on a card (or on an integrated graphics controller) with T&L support then it just uses it. If you run the same binary on a card w/o hw T&L then your program just uses CPU for this stuff.
It's because in OpenGL such things as T&L are managed on the level of the graphics driver and not on the level of the API.


Man, I wished OpenGL would work like that. Too bad it's not true.


heh... :roll:

Show me any function in OpenGL API with which you could set the usage of hardware T&L.
There is no such function. The T&L stuff is implement in the gfx driver - every driver is written for a specific piece of hardware and if the hardware supports T&L then the driver uses it. If not then the driver uses the CPU.
The OpenGL is just a specification that describes how to write gfx drivers. This is not some interface between the app and the driver. Calling any OpenGL function is just calling the function within the gfx driver. And the driver knows if the gfx hardware supports T&L (the OGL application deosn't have to care about that).

You can check your gfx cards drivers - among other files there are OpenGL libraries. These libraries are the OpenGL drivers of your card (and if your system is Windows then I don't mean the opengl32.dll which is Microsoft's software OpenGL driver) and these libraries implement the OpenGL functions that your program uses.

http://www.opengl.org