Tremulous Forum
Mods => Mod Releases => Gameplay Changing => Topic started by: E-Mxp on March 05, 2007, 08:37:17 am
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What does this exactly? How does it work? Where do I download it? How do you install it (on Windows)? On which servers does it work? I need to know! :D
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:D
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What does this exactly?
I don't know all of the details about how Unlagged works, but as far as I know it's supposed to account for the effects of lag in some way, the net result being that you don't have to "lead" your target to account for lag. So in theory 200- or 300- ping players compete on a level playing field with 50-pings.
Some people argue that Unlagged helps human players more than alien players, but I'm not entirely sure this is the case.
How does it work?
This I don't know. Perhaps someone with more technical knowledge can tell you. My guess is that it makes the server recalculate weapons fire and player location to account for ping. Beyond that I couldn't say. I'm sure it's pretty complicated.
Where do I download it? How do you install it (on Windows)?
As far as I know, the current version of Unlagged is basically a server-side modification. That is, if you're a regular player you don't have to worry about it. Either the server you're playing on has Unlagged turned on, or it doesn't. There's nothing you have to do.
If you're a server operator running a stock Tremulous 1.1.0 Server, I'm pretty sure you don't have Unlagged. However, I think that all of the recent updated game.qvms (TJW's, Avenger's, Risujin's) all have Unlagged as an option. If you have Unlagged in your game.qvm, you can enable it by setting g_Unlagged to 1 in your setup.cfg file.
On which servers does it work? I need to know!
If you mean, which servers are running Unlagged, that I'm not so sure about. Any server owners want to 'fess up?
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Unlagged Servers:
Tjw
}MG{Central
Any server running balance mod - or balance lite
++BeerGarden++
Thoes are the ones i know of
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MG west is also unlagged, and some balance mod servers, like [T]balance don't have unlagged on.
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Balance servers are unlagged (with the notable exception of [T] Balance).
The way it works is as follows. Suppose you are pinging a nasty 300 ms.
1.) You see a dretch, who pings at 50 ms, aim AT the dretch and fire.
2.) 300 ms later, your "shot message" arrives at the server. By now the dretch has moved out of the way in those 300 ms! Oh noes, you're gonna miss right? On a normal server, yes, but with unlagged...
3.) The server has been keeping track of where all of the players are for the past second or so. It rewinds to the game position 300 ms ago *just for your hit check*! It figures out you actually fired when the dretch was under your crosshair and voila, you just whacked a dretch. Seems great, doesn't it? Well not entirely, what does the dretch see?
4.) When you were pressing your mouse button to fire, the dretch saw you and scampered off ... he doesn't see you firing because even the server doesn't know you fired until 300 ms after you click.
5.) Now 300 ms after you clicked, the server registers a hit and sends the dretch a message saying that he's actually dead.
6.) 350 ms after the click, the dretch is running merrily along down some hallway away from you all of a sudden is teleported back under your crosshair and killed. To the dretch it may even look like you shot him through the wall. Cries of "H4X!!" ensue.
Unlagged generally makes the world a better place. However, with Tremulous there is a snag. Only one team is packing long range hitscan weapons and is benefited disproportionately. The damage and fire rate values that were tweaked to balance the teams when human laggers were filling empty air full of bullets are now much too great when human laggers actually nail their targets.
For more info, see the author's website:
http://www.ra.is/unlagged/
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isn't ping round trip time?
so a ping of 300 would take 150 to tell the server....
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The way it works is as follows. Suppose you are pinging a nasty 300 ms.
but the server won't let you connect because it has a reasonable sv_maxping
1.) You see a dretch, who pings at 50 ms, aim AT the dretch and fire.
2.) 300 ms later, your "shot message" arrives at the server. By now the dretch has moved out of the way in those 300 ms! Oh noes, you're gonna miss right? On a normal server, yes, but with unlagged...
3.) The server has been keeping track of where all of the players are for the past second or so. It rewinds to the game position 300 ms ago *just for your hit check*! It figures out you actually fired when the dretch was under your crosshair and voila, you just whacked a dretch. Seems great, doesn't it? Well not entirely, what does the dretch see?
it's actually a half second, but that doesn't really matter.
4.) When you were pressing your mouse button to fire, the dretch saw you and scampered off ... he doesn't see you firing because even the server doesn't know you fired until 300 ms after you click.
5.) Now 300 ms after you clicked, the server registers a hit and sends the dretch a message saying that he's actually dead.
6.) 350 ms after the click, the dretch is running merrily along down some hallway away from you all of a sudden is teleported back under your crosshair and killed. To the dretch it may even look like you shot him through the wall. Cries of "H4X!!" ensue.
technically this common complaint is possible even without unlagged (though unlagged makes it a bit more likely to happen), this happens now maybe once every few games to one person, and i think that dying once to this when i wouldn't have otherwise is worth it to be able to play on even ground against people who might not be close enough to play with me otherwise (i've played quite a few games with europeans on unlagged servers, and if you didn't check the scores you would never know they were pinging 150+)
Unlagged generally makes the world a better place. However, with Tremulous there is a snag. Only one team is packing long range hitscan weapons and is benefited disproportionately. The damage and fire rate values that were tweaked to balance the teams when human laggers were filling empty air full of bullets are now much too great when human laggers actually nail their targets.
i don't think that humans benefit more from unlagged, because most of the hitscan weapons have higher fire rates, and the more powerful human weapons aren't affected by unlagged. unlagged tends to benefit weapons with (relatively) slow firing rates and high damage, which aside from the mass driver and shotgun, humans have none of, but aliens have quite a few (everything other than marauder (low damage high rate of fire) and basilisk (low damage) would fall under this catagory)
For more info, see the author's website:
http://www.ra.is/unlagged/
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For more info, see the author's website:
http://www.ra.is/unlagged/
I cant get any wiser of it. It seems to be made for Quake3 (though Tremulous is made out of a quake engine, I still don't know if it would work.) :(
If you're a server operator running a stock Tremulous 1.1.0 Server, I'm pretty sure you don't have Unlagged. However, I think that all of the recent updated game.qvms (TJW's, Avenger's, Risujin's) all have Unlagged as an option. If you have Unlagged in your game.qvm, you can enable it by setting g_Unlagged to 1 in your setup.cfg file.
Thanks, I'll try it :D I'm using Tremulous svn895 (windows client-backport) Hope it would work :D
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Does Unlagged -- as implemented in Tremulous -- apply only to projectiles, or to player collisions as well? If it applies to everyone equally I think it could benefit aliens as well as humans.
It seems to me that fast-moving dretches and pouncing dragoons count as deadly "projectiles" which could benefit from Unlagged correction. I often notice (when I have a higher ping) that my most extreme "glancing" dretch attacks often fail to register hits. I assume that Unlagged helps with this problem. I've noticed similar problems with dragoon pounces, which (again) I assume Unlagged probably fixes.
Does anyone know what version of Unlagged is currently used in Tremulous code? Is it 2.01, or another version?
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I tested it on BeerGarden and g_Unlagged 1 works fine :D I used the massdriver and it OWND :D :D :D :D :D (happy!!)
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Unlagged generally makes the world a better place. However, with Tremulous there is a snag. Only one team is packing long range hitscan weapons and is benefited disproportionately. The damage and fire rate values that were tweaked to balance the teams when human laggers were filling empty air full of bullets are now much too great when human laggers actually nail their targets.
Bah, Unlagged has little effect on my ability to hit a Tyrant with a chaingun at close range. On the other hand, with Unlagged it is now completly impossible to dance around such Tyrant to avoid getting hit. Same and worse at human stage 1 against goons.
Unlagged favors aliens much more than humans.
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isn't ping round trip time?
so a ping of 300 would take 150 to tell the server....
My mistake, you're right, ping is round-trip time.
Bah, Unlagged has little effect on my ability to hit a Tyrant with a chaingun at close range. On the other hand, with Unlagged it is now completly impossible to dance around such Tyrant to avoid getting hit. Same and worse at human stage 1 against goons.
I'm talking about the machinegun, mass driver, and lasgun.
Here's a particular example that drives me crazy:
1.) I'm running at a human with a lasgun
2.) I see the human fire, so I start to dodge
3.) I die because he was able to shoot me 3 times (9 dmg x 3 = 27) before my dodge registered on the server
Does Unlagged -- as implemented in Tremulous -- apply only to projectiles, or to player collisions as well? If it applies to everyone equally I think it could benefit aliens as well as humans.
It includes code to predict projectiles correctly. You will see the projectile where it is on the server. This has the weird effect of shifting the muzzle point way in front of the gun so it looks like the shots are coming from 5-6 feet in front of the gun in heavy lag.
Unlagged only rewinds for weapon hit testing. It does help dretches and goons because their attacks are also "unlagged".
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Here's a particular example that drives me crazy:
1.) I'm running at a human with a lasgun
2.) I see the human fire, so I start to dodge
3.) I die because he was able to shoot me 3 times (9 dmg x 3 = 27) before my dodge registered on the server
A dretch running up at an aware human with a lasgun ( or any other similar weapon ) deserves to die. That's the way things are meant to be :P
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A dretch running up at an aware human with a lasgun ( or any other similar weapon ) deserves to die. That's the way things are meant to be
Perhaps. The class who really suffered from unlagged IMO, is the maurader. Try using a maurader, and just jump past 3-4 humans who do not have their head up their ass. Without unlagged, you might run away screaming, but you'll get away. With unlagged, not a chance. I stopped using mara since the servers i play on started using unlagged.
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No joke. Mara + Lassgun + ATCS + Unlagged =wasted 2/3 evos.
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I'd call that better than before, when it could be:
Mara + Five Jetpackers w/ LasGuns and Helmet + ATCS = Ten-minute Marauder-Hunt just to end the damn map.
Marauders are still agile, but they're no longer unhittable agile with Unlagged. :D