Tremulous Forum
General => General Discussion => Topic started by: Lava Croft on March 29, 2007, 05:15:00 pm
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Then do not forget that at least the TJW (http://trem.tjw.org/) and SatGNU (http://trem.maci.ws/) Tremulous servers are running the latest gameplay changes applied to Tremulous, mostly done by Norfenstein.
These balance changes greatly improve upon Tremulous, but some things have changed, and require a different approach this time around.
So, why not enable automatic downloading in Tremulous, connect to either TJW (http://trem.tjw.org/) or SatGNU (http://trem.maci.ws/) and have a look around in the game, notice the differences, get ready for 1.2.
Once you get used to the new 'balance', you will totally miss it when you connect to a Tremulous 1.1.0 server, and yearn for the sweetness that the Tremulous standalone release has brought us gameplay-wise. It's not all Balance Mod and TremX...
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i'm not hungry with the horrible changes tjw and satGNU, among other servers are using...
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balance mod is totally unbalanced
tremx is not so extreme
domination is just a rip off
tjw's mod ... I also hate it
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tjw code is not a mod!
this is what trem is going to be like in version 1.2!
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tjw code is not a mod!
this is what trem is going to be like in version 1.2!
note to self, continue playing 1.1 if tjw can't be brought to his senses
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o lol tremx have nice improvements for Humans like biokit is very usefull beacouse dragoon for human at s1 is too strong
ammo pack is too good but this should be at s1, battery should be s2
hmmmm xael range of atomic bomb xD this one should be changed
but even in tremx humans are weak if A players are saying no surge thats means he is a noob, humans are kinda weak if they dont play as team but like hero in this game human cannot be a Hercules you should remeber that
that what i think ;)
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o lol tremx have nice improvements for Humans
THIS IS NOT A TREMX THREAD. LEARN THAT BEFORE YOU POST
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So, why not enable automatic downloading in Tremulous, connect to either TJW (http://trem.tjw.org/) or SatGNU (http://trem.maci.ws/) and have a look around in the game, notice the differences, get ready for 1.2.
Why not? Because the changes are too radical.
And puhlease don't come running with "balance", we been there and did find out that all those nice diagrams and pics only show that you can't compare games where the players have different skills.
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the }MG{ Domination server is also running w/ these changes.
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Then do not forget that at least the TJW (http://trem.tjw.org/) and SatGNU (http://trem.maci.ws/) Tremulous servers are running the latest gameplay changes applied to Tremulous, mostly done by Norfenstein.
These balance changes greatly improve upon Tremulous, but some things have changed, and require a different approach this time around.
So, why not enable automatic downloading in Tremulous, connect to either TJW (http://trem.tjw.org/) or SatGNU (http://trem.maci.ws/) and have a look around in the game, notice the differences, get ready for 1.2.
Once you get used to the new 'balance', you will totally miss it when you connect to a Tremulous 1.1.0 server, and yearn for the sweetness that the Tremulous standalone release has brought us gameplay-wise. It's not all Balance Mod and TremX...
EDIT:
the }MG{ Domination server is also running w/ these changes.
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The future 1.2 changes are great. Can't wait for 1.2 official release.
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KOCOUR-CZ DEV runs the (almost) latest SVN. No experimental k3wl m0dz, just SVN, /share and designated builder. Download protocol 70 KOCOUR-CZ DEV client pack here (http://kocour.veprov.cz/dw/trem-dev/client.zip).
And BTW, designated builder + mark deconstruct = no more BP stealing 8)
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Also people should note, that tjw's changes change all the time.
its not done yet.
the more people who play and test, the sooner they find what works, and the sooner trem 1.2 will come out.
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I just have to quip in:
TJW + Domination mod is the most fun ever. No camping, no bullcrap, just plain fun. Especially on our server since we don't really get any "newbs" it's just good fun teamwork.
Note: MGDOM = No SD, No Timelimit (400mins games with 4-5 matches in each 0_o), and the best admins around (}MG{ Members).
Khalsa
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hehe Khalsa, you just had to get that in :)
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If there were new weapons or structures, people would be more excited to play on those servers.
Small gameplay changes are really boring. I've played the changes a couple of times in the past weeks but they really don't excite me. Its just small changes.
The major issues still really haven't been addressed:
1) A solo human counter to tyrants
2) Encouragement to get humans out of the base
3) Compromise to dretch ground-head-bites.
4) Barricade usefulness and the overall boringness of alien bases
5) Still don't really see a use for basilisks or marauders other than the forced need for basilisks for regen.
6) Alien grenade (marauder zap are still blah)
7) Human weapon complexity and limit in overall effectiveness between aliens (good at everything, scale between s1 and s3 well) whereas humans are good at only certain things per gear load out and don't really scale in power with stage progression.
These changes address issues that I really don't feel where major issues.
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I tried this out on TJW server, its pretty good, would like to keep things the same the way I'm used to but everything changes I guess.
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Good thing this isn't 1.2 LOL
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adv dragoon at s2? that sounds like a bad idea.
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If the tjw server is running what trem 1.2 will be like, its sure not a good sign thats its nearly always empty.
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TJW + Domination mod is the most fun ever. No camping, no bullcrap, just plain fun. Especially on our server since we don't really get any "newbs" it's just good fun teamwork.
Yeah I just played there on humans. There is definately more teamwork involved and there isnt any camping done for the most part, some good fun :D
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If there were new weapons or structures, people would be more excited to play on those servers.
Small gameplay changes are really boring. I've played the changes a couple of times in the past weeks but they really don't excite me. Its just small changes.
The major issues still really haven't been addressed:
1) A solo human counter to tyrants
2) Encouragement to get humans out of the base
3) Compromise to dretch ground-head-bites.
4) Barricade usefulness and the overall boringness of alien bases
5) Still don't really see a use for basilisks or marauders other than the forced need for basilisks for regen.
6) Alien grenade (marauder zap are still blah)
7) Human weapon complexity and limit in overall effectiveness between aliens (good at everything, scale between s1 and s3 well) whereas humans are good at only certain things per gear load out and don't really scale in power with stage progression.
These changes address issues that I really don't feel where major issues.
As regards number 5, I thought this myself somewhat, but I played a game last night where everyone on Alien all went basi or mara, not just the usual dretch and goon, and we ruled the Humans in a short "L" hallway, briefly, while they were S2. It seems that nobody really uses these classes, (and do the adv gas and electrical attacks really do anything?), but they could be really cool if they were utilized a bit more, and didn't seem so weak (they can actually be quite effective, but the line between fight-to-the-kill and run-away-screaming is very fine). You don't see them utilized that well that often. Yet if they are made stronger, humans must also get some new counterbalance.
I haven't played too much modded Trem, so I don't really know how the new changes play. But I'm glad Tremulous is still growing and changing.
I don't know about a solo human to counter tyrants. Two Humans working together when at least one has a battlesuit and the other has a luci seems pretty strong. As far as points 2, 4, and 6, I made some suggestions on Sushi's "new wepons (sic)" thread on the Mods forum that you may find interesting.
http://tremulous.net/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=4036
I think dretching is pretty hard, although as a Human I think they have an unfair advantage. You've got to admit, it does take some skill or practice to be able to dretch well. I don't think it's too easy. It just seems that way to Humans.
As far as your last point, I think you contradicted yourself when you said that basis and maras are useless. Maybe I misunderstand, but how then do Aliens scale well? Also, I think a big part of the game is learning to work with teammates. This is why Humans have limited loadouts. They need their teammates. The Aliens do, too, it's just less obvious.
Not flaming you personally, temple. It's just that you had some interesting points that I had immediate views on. I agree with your basic premise, gameplay is all well and good, but where are the new toys, tools, and artifacts that really excite gamerz? We're model-hungry ingrates. I'll go play now.
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Dretches die way too easily. Crappy regen out of base makes them blaster fodder. When aliens are weakened enough to make blasters useful, something is seriously wrong. Dragoons at S2 is balanced by the bad regen, but all the other aliens are unbalanced, atleast give the goon a healing aura. Luci is basically useless, considering the slow ROF of it's secondary, I think it should be more powerfull. With the slow turret speed and time it takes them to lock on to a target, teslas are very usefull now! Perhaps teslas should be readily available at S2?
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Lava, you forgot your [/shamelesspromotion] tag.
:D
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Lava, you forgot your [/shamelesspromotion] tag.
Well, after getting used to the new changes Norfenstein made to Tremulous, playing on a stock 1.1.0 server is just lame.
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how do I mod tjw with patches?. I downloaded the svn
please help! :cry:
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tjw code is not a mod!
this is what trem is going to be like in version 1.2!
note to self, continue playing 1.1 if tjw can't be brought to his senses
QFT >_>
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Once 1.2 actually does come out, someone will code a "Nostalgia" mod, re-adding all the cool stuff from 1.1, which finds instant popularity among the player-base.
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how do I mod tjw with patches?. I downloaded the svn
please help! :cry:
He keeps them all in one big patch; told me to do it like this:
Check out the svn version:svn://svn.icculus.org/tremulous/trunk/ name-of-directory-you-want-everything-in
Then go to the directory you just made and run wget http://tjw.org/tremulous-current/ -O - | patch -p0
Best thing to do is make a clean install of tremulous in a directory that's not your normal trem folder, unzip data-1.1.0.pk3, then delete it and vms-1.1.0.pk3, and make a folder called vm/ under base/.
When you compile tremulous, copy over the qvm's it builds (look in the build/ directory) to this vm folder, as well as the binary it made to the top level of your tremulous development folder (one level above base/). Run that with +set sv_pure 0, and +set fs_homepath set to that same directory so it won't touch your normal trem configuration folder (dunno if this is necessary on Windows; might not hurt to skip it on Linux too).
I made this helper script in my tremulous source directory to do the above for me:#!/bin/sh
cp build/release-linux-x86/base/vm/*.qvm ~/games/tremulous-dev/base/vm
cp build/release-linux-x86/tremulous.x86 ~/games/tremulous-dev/tremulous.x86
~/games/tremulous-dev/tremulous.x86 +set fs_homepath ~/games/tremulous-dev +set sv_pure 0 +devmap $1
You can figure out how to adapt it to your needs.
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If there were new weapons or structures, people would be more excited to play on those servers.
Small gameplay changes are really boring. I've played the changes a couple of times in the past weeks but they really don't excite me. Its just small changes.
The major issues still really haven't been addressed:
1) A solo human counter to tyrants
2) Encouragement to get humans out of the base
3) Compromise to dretch ground-head-bites.
4) Barricade usefulness and the overall boringness of alien bases
5) Still don't really see a use for basilisks or marauders other than the forced need for basilisks for regen.
6) Alien grenade (marauder zap are still blah)
7) Human weapon complexity and limit in overall effectiveness between aliens (good at everything, scale between s1 and s3 well) whereas humans are good at only certain things per gear load out and don't really scale in power with stage progression.
These changes address issues that I really don't feel where major issues.
As regards number 5, I thought this myself somewhat, but I played a game last night where everyone on Alien all went basi or mara, not just the usual dretch and goon, and we ruled the Humans in a short "L" hallway, briefly, while they were S2. It seems that nobody really uses these classes, (and do the adv gas and electrical attacks really do anything?), but they could be really cool if they were utilized a bit more, and didn't seem so weak (they can actually be quite effective, but the line between fight-to-the-kill and run-away-screaming is very fine). You don't see them utilized that well that often. Yet if they are made stronger, humans must also get some new counterbalance.
I haven't played too much modded Trem, so I don't really know how the new changes play. But I'm glad Tremulous is still growing and changing.
I don't know about a solo human to counter tyrants. Two Humans working together when at least one has a battlesuit and the other has a luci seems pretty strong. As far as points 2, 4, and 6, I made some suggestions on Sushi's "new wepons (sic)" thread on the Mods forum that you may find interesting.
http://tremulous.net/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=4036
I think dretching is pretty hard, although as a Human I think they have an unfair advantage. You've got to admit, it does take some skill or practice to be able to dretch well. I don't think it's too easy. It just seems that way to Humans.
As far as your last point, I think you contradicted yourself when you said that basis and maras are useless. Maybe I misunderstand, but how then do Aliens scale well? Also, I think a big part of the game is learning to work with teammates. This is why Humans have limited loadouts. They need their teammates. The Aliens do, too, it's just less obvious.
Not flaming you personally, temple. It's just that you had some interesting points that I had immediate views on. I agree with your basic premise, gameplay is all well and good, but where are the new toys, tools, and artifacts that really excite gamerz? We're model-hungry ingrates. I'll go play now.
Aliens scale well because the more an alien costs, the better it is than it predecessors. On the flip side, human weapons aren't always better with more cost. In fact, human weapons tend to be harder to pick and coordinate.
Basilisks and Marauders have uses but once you get good, its nothing a goon can't do and do better.
Humans have limited loadouts because they have more specific abilities. The beauty is being able to coordinate but its myth that people can coordinate anything outside of a clan match.
2 Humans against a tyrants is still a solo fight between a tyrant because the rant will kill 1 humans almost immediately, leaving just 1 guy left. Rants got nerfed but they are still rants. A good player will still be devastating but they won't be as awesome as before. Either way, I think humans just need a solid weapon that can take out rants consistently, rather than nerfing rants.
A luci cannon (used to) kill anything below a rant easily if the alien made a mistake. Chainguns are equally punishing. But with rants, nothing kills them fast enough. Now, luci cannons are still pretty much the same against rants and chainguns are slightly more effective in killing fleeing aliens. But I think the nerfs to aliens make the harder to play rather really giving humans want they need. Like I said before, aliens will get better due to the challenges, humans will still stay the same.
I really don't care about flames or anything. I'm just bored of Tremulous and I want something, anything, new and exciting.
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TJW + Domination mod is the most fun ever. No camping, no bullcrap, just plain fun. Especially on our server since we don't really get any "newbs" it's just good fun teamwork.
I was about to join the shameless self-promotion-fest and plug Domination mod, but someone beat me to it ... twice. :)
Dom forces players to come out of their hidey holes. It doesn't work as well without TJW's changes. TJW balanced the teams very well, almost brings the game to a grinding halt sometimes because of the many comebacks.
I was as critical as anyone when I read some of his tweaks ("Adv. Goon at S2 omfg?!" etc), but no, it is something you must experience. Well worthy to be Tremulous 1.2. Give }MG{DominationMod a try!
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Once 1.2 actually does come out, someone will code a "Nostalgia" mod, re-adding all the cool stuff from 1.1, which finds instant popularity among the player-base.
Instead it wouldn't be called "Nostalgia". It'd be called "Un-Stupid".
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I think "Classic" would be my adjective of choice.
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I can't play on tjw's server for some reason. As soon as it loads, my ping shoots up to 999 while in the server browser, it says 60, etc.
Oh and is there a faster way to download all the new changes without waiting for ages to download from the server at 11kbps?
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I can't play on tjw's server for some reason. As soon as it loads, my ping shoots up to 999 while in the server browser, it says 60, etc.
Oh and is there a faster way to download all the new changes without waiting for ages to download from the server at 11kbps?
get tjw's backport enable www downloads?
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already have that and downloads were enabled...maybe the server doesnt support it
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I think we need to put a link to atcs 3, one of the new maps used on }MG{ Domination. Its on the clan website, http://www.mercenariesguild.net/base/map-atcs3.pk3[/url]
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how do I mod tjw with patches?. I downloaded the svn
please help! :cry:
He keeps them all in one big patch; told me to do it like this:
Check out the svn version:svn://svn.icculus.org/tremulous/trunk/ name-of-directory-you-want-everything-in
Then go to the directory you just made and run wget http://tjw.org/tremulous-current/ -O - | patch -p0
Best thing to do is make a clean install of tremulous in a directory that's not your normal trem folder, unzip data-1.1.0.pk3, then delete it and vms-1.1.0.pk3, and make a folder called vm/ under base/.
When you compile tremulous, copy over the qvm's it builds (look in the build/ directory) to this vm folder, as well as the binary it made to the top level of your tremulous development folder (one level above base/). Run that with +set sv_pure 0, and +set fs_homepath set to that same directory so it won't touch your normal trem configuration folder (dunno if this is necessary on Windows; might not hurt to skip it on Linux too).
I made this helper script in my tremulous source directory to do the above for me:#!/bin/sh
cp build/release-linux-x86/base/vm/*.qvm ~/games/tremulous-dev/base/vm
cp build/release-linux-x86/tremulous.x86 ~/games/tremulous-dev/tremulous.x86
~/games/tremulous-dev/tremulous.x86 +set fs_homepath ~/games/tremulous-dev +set sv_pure 0 +devmap $1
You can figure out how to adapt it to your needs.
This is intimidating for most and prohibitive for some. What a mess just to install a patch.
And I agree with gareth - TJW had one of the most popular servers and it used to be one of my favorites. Now it is hard to even find enough players on it for a decent game. Hopefully this will change, but it does give an indication of the poor acceptance of these changes.
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Most of the playerbase is casual newbs that have no idea what the server is or how to get a backport to allow them to play on it. I don't think the acceptance rate among the 10% that have tjw clients is really that low; it's just that the casual/newb population will always be the bulk and at this point their inability to be there isn't really a rejection of the changes as much as a lack of knowledge and/or a lack of really caring deeply enough about the game to want to play beta-ish versions.
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already have that and downloads were enabled...maybe the server doesnt support it
You might have to set cl_cURLLib to "libcurl.so.3" instead of its default. Or set it to whatever your actual libcurl library is called. And you need cl_wwwDownload turned on in addition (not sure about this) to cl_allowDownload.
This is intimidating for most and prohibitive for some. What a mess just to install a patch.
Come on, you should be able to come up with better things to criticize than that. One person that already knows svn asked how to apply the patch -- which takes a single command -- and I passed along additional information that was useful to me. And I don't think it's being elitist to say anyone that can't follow such simple instructions probably won't be able to do much with the source.
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Norf-
Read what you wrote. I don't have a problem with it, but how many times have you seen players ask what "ping" is or some of the other of the bizzare questions we get. That seems to be more the average player I was thinking that is going to have problems.
Don't get me wrong, even though I am having problems adjusting to the changes I haven't given up and keep trying, but when I find myself not enjoying the game, I go play elsewhere.
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I tried TJW with MG's domination mod. I'm liking the gameplay changes a lot so far... aliens are a lot more versatile; lower classes are a lot more useful (adv lisk's gas is a bit overpowered, though, especially how it can affect bsuits). New build system is much better, although it's a bit confusing at first.
The biggest thing I don't like is the way turrets have changed, although it might just be something to get used to.
How far is the range for lisk's health regeneration boost? Is it like booster where you have to be right next to it for it to work?
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i can deal with the delay between secondary fires now...but the delay between primary fire is pretty brutal...thats actually the only change that i really hate...i can deal with the rest.
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i can deal with the delay between secondary fires now...but the delay between primary fire is pretty brutal...thats actually the only change that i really hate...i can deal with the rest.
QFT! Luci is supposed to be a weapon of mass destruction, it's meant to destroy bases, with the power it has to destro bases it can also be spammed, but taking away the potential to spam also takes away the potential to destroy bases. The luci is next to useless as an offencive weapon now and needs to be fixed.
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progress bars are so cute :)
Is unlagged forced ?
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If there were new weapons or structures, people would be more excited to play on those servers.
Small gameplay changes are really boring. I've played the changes a couple of times in the past weeks but they really don't excite me. Its just small changes.
The major issues still really haven't been addressed:
1) A solo human counter to tyrants
2) Encouragement to get humans out of the base
3) Compromise to dretch ground-head-bites.
4) Barricade usefulness and the overall boringness of alien bases
5) Still don't really see a use for basilisks or marauders other than the forced need for basilisks for regen.
6) Alien grenade (marauder zap are still blah)
7) Human weapon complexity and limit in overall effectiveness between aliens (good at everything, scale between s1 and s3 well) whereas humans are good at only certain things per gear load out and don't really scale in power with stage progression.
These changes address issues that I really don't feel where major issues.
As regards number 5, I thought this myself somewhat, but I played a game last night where everyone on Alien all went basi or mara, not just the usual dretch and goon, and we ruled the Humans in a short "L" hallway, briefly, while they were S2. It seems that nobody really uses these classes, (and do the adv gas and electrical attacks really do anything?), but they could be really cool if they were utilized a bit more, and didn't seem so weak (they can actually be quite effective, but the line between fight-to-the-kill and run-away-screaming is very fine). You don't see them utilized that well that often. Yet if they are made stronger, humans must also get some new counterbalance.
I haven't played too much modded Trem, so I don't really know how the new changes play. But I'm glad Tremulous is still growing and changing.
I don't know about a solo human to counter tyrants. Two Humans working together when at least one has a battlesuit and the other has a luci seems pretty strong. As far as points 2, 4, and 6, I made some suggestions on Sushi's "new wepons (sic)" thread on the Mods forum that you may find interesting.
http://tremulous.net/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=4036
I think dretching is pretty hard, although as a Human I think they have an unfair advantage. You've got to admit, it does take some skill or practice to be able to dretch well. I don't think it's too easy. It just seems that way to Humans.
As far as your last point, I think you contradicted yourself when you said that basis and maras are useless. Maybe I misunderstand, but how then do Aliens scale well? Also, I think a big part of the game is learning to work with teammates. This is why Humans have limited loadouts. They need their teammates. The Aliens do, too, it's just less obvious.
Not flaming you personally, temple. It's just that you had some interesting points that I had immediate views on. I agree with your basic premise, gameplay is all well and good, but where are the new toys, tools, and artifacts that really excite gamerz? We're model-hungry ingrates. I'll go play now.
Aliens scale well because the more an alien costs, the better it is than it predecessors. On the flip side, human weapons aren't always better with more cost. In fact, human weapons tend to be harder to pick and coordinate.
Basilisks and Marauders have uses but once you get good, its nothing a goon can't do and do better.
Humans have limited loadouts because they have more specific abilities. The beauty is being able to coordinate but its myth that people can coordinate anything outside of a clan match.
2 Humans against a tyrants is still a solo fight between a tyrant because the rant will kill 1 humans almost immediately, leaving just 1 guy left. Rants got nerfed but they are still rants. A good player will still be devastating but they won't be as awesome as before. Either way, I think humans just need a solid weapon that can take out rants consistently, rather than nerfing rants.
A luci cannon (used to) kill anything below a rant easily if the alien made a mistake. Chainguns are equally punishing. But with rants, nothing kills them fast enough. Now, luci cannons are still pretty much the same against rants and chainguns are slightly more effective in killing fleeing aliens. But I think the nerfs to aliens make the harder to play rather really giving humans want they need. Like I said before, aliens will get better due to the challenges, humans will still stay the same.
I really don't care about flames or anything. I'm just bored of Tremulous and I want something, anything, new and exciting.
(1)There actualy already is way to kill rant pretty easy on solo, BS + Flamer. rant can kill human with minium of three hits and flamer can kill it in about four seconds. Rant can win the fight either tricking the human (forcing him to aim badly) or using charge attack to deal lot of damage.
(2)To get humans out of base there should be domination points or some short of resource gathering.
(4)Alien bases and bases in over all are extremely boring. That is the reason why I personaly like to grab the base and try to build my way high as possible to settel the base (no drech elevator cheating ^^) but I mostly do this only on (Cebt) server coz I would probly get vote kicked by some boring players that take the game too seriously ("It's not about wining and losing. It's about how you play the game"- Calvin, from Calvin & Hobbes).
(5)Basilisk is useful for support (holding still), sneak attacks on singular oppoments and can be used even large group of headprotectionless humans that don't have advanced weaponry (pulse, flamer, lucy) and they cost 1 evo (dreches are shot down with buckshot in seconds on same sitsuation).
Marauderer can dance infront of human defences or even used to quickly rape reactor or spawns or what ever they see best to take down first (sometimes take cover from turrets using random human structure and rape it while at it.). (6) Zap attack is best way to solve problem of s2 human groups since helmet gives no protection against it while humans sufering credit loss die with one successful perfect zap. Last but not least the turrets don't like zaps and there are more zaps to spare than human can buy on one game.
(7)S1 weapons seem to give one weapon for each way of playing with guns (rifle with rapid fire, buckshot, sniper etc.) then s2 gives them pulse wich all larger aliens fear coz of extreme damage and slow projectiles turning into wall of damage and fool would run on it eh? so that is to keep aliens away. flamer to make some krisp of those damn dreches that does not seem to fall into pulse walls of red lazer and for later on to keep rants away from base. Lucy is just the final piece that turns street fight into nuclear war.
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Then do not forget that at least the TJW (http://trem.tjw.org/) and SatGNU (http://trem.maci.ws/) Tremulous servers are running the latest gameplay changes applied to Tremulous, mostly done by Norfenstein.
These balance changes greatly improve upon Tremulous, but some things have changed, and require a different approach this time around.
So, why not enable automatic downloading in Tremulous, connect to either TJW (http://trem.tjw.org/) or SatGNU (http://trem.maci.ws/) and have a look around in the game, notice the differences, get ready for 1.2.
Once you get used to the new 'balance', you will totally miss it when you connect to a Tremulous 1.1.0 server, and yearn for the sweetness that the Tremulous standalone release has brought us gameplay-wise. It's not all Balance Mod and TremX...
Do we, players, have any influence on what will be in 1.2 or we're simply specatators?
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I think they have almost completed it so I bet it does not have much effect if you spam the whole post "I want bazooka." :wink:
Although we ofcource demand atleast 1 new alien class and new human equipment
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I demand the old ROF for the luci's primary.
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i can deal with the delay between secondary fires now...but the delay between primary fire is pretty brutal...thats actually the only change that i really hate...i can deal with the rest.
The delay should be no different when charging up all the way. It's only when shooting less than fully charged shots that you get a longer reload. And not having any minimum charge is actually a good thing in some situations. I think it's still a little buggy though, so stay tuned...
but taking away the potential to spam also takes away the potential to destroy bases
I disagree.
Do we, players, have any influence on what will be in 1.2 or we're simply specatators?
Good, novel, ideas are always welcome, but Tremulous isn't designed democratically.
And, if I may? I think everyone should slow down with the feedback. We are constantly changing things and many things being complained about are not even close to being finalized. If you don't like the new changes, stop playing on servers that use them. We'll let you know when you should come back and try again. If that's not what you want then please play for longer than a day, or even a week, before getting pissed off. No one is qualified to judge changes untill they've seen how they affect the entire game (not just the small portion you focus on, or like best, or only saw that one time you playtested). Trust me, I've been in your position before, and have embarassed myself complaining loudly about things before getting used to them. You're free to do that too, of course, but remember that some changes might not make total sense until further things are implemented. Please have patience and keep open minds.
I demand the old ROF for the luci's primary.
svn.icculus.org/tremulous/trunk
Yea, that's a lame response, but you earned it. And if you don't have the skills to hack code, find someone who does that shares your views. I didn't start out in Tremulous contributing anything except ideas, and now my ideas are mostly directing Tremulous's future. I got here by being polite and respectful.
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There is only one thing I want from the developers, and that's a fixed 1.1 binary ala tjw's backport except with the gui sort by ping fixed.
You can keep your 1.2
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Slow down with the feedback? I would have thought it would be welcome. From what I have seen there has been very little, but I don't monitor the feedback forum too much. Still, I would hope that the changes are not being made just for a select group of players. That leads to a fragmentated community and empty servers.
(I do have to laugh at all the "don't you dare change my noob cannon" comments. Unknown to some - there are other weapons available at S3.)
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I was responding to
Although we ofcource demand atleast 1 new alien class and new human equipment
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(I do have to laugh at all the "don't you dare change my noob cannon" comments. Unknown to some - there are other weapons available at S3.)
what is a noob cannon? is this going to be a new weapon? ive played trem for quite a while and havent seen this weapon.
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(I do have to laugh at all the "don't you dare change my noob cannon" comments. Unknown to some - there are other weapons available at S3.)
what is a noob cannon? is this going to be a new weapon? ive played trem for quite a while and havent seen this weapon.
</sarcasm>? I hope so.
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Wow! Thats great name for weapon... atleast one weapon with descriping name. Weapon to shoot noobs with?
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theres a specific weapon you can only use to shoot noobs?
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The weapon for noobs, the Lucifer Cannon, the most destructive and fearful weapon in the game, atleast, it used to be.
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I don't use it coz it's boring... ...and the fact that I am pyro maniac.
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i know what a lucifer cannon is. were talking about the noob cannon.
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i know what a lucifer cannon is. were talking about the noob cannon.
"Noob Cannon" is the name given to the lucifer cannon when you start using it.
So basicly, we were talking about the Lucifer Cannon.
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i know what a lucifer cannon is. were talking about the noob cannon.
"Noob Cannon" is the name given to the lucifer cannon when you start using it.
So basicly, we were talking about the Lucifer Cannon.
well thats dumb. i hate how people always think theyve made the greatest name for a weapon they hate by adding noob or tard to it >_>
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Slow down with the feedback? I would have thought it would be welcome. From what I have seen there has been very little, but I don't monitor the feedback forum too much. Still, I would hope that the changes are not being made just for a select group of players. That leads to a fragmentated community and empty servers.
Thoughtful feedback is welcome, but it's hard for me to take a criticism seriously when I know the person giving it hasn't experienced the issue in question for more than a handful of games on one server, with one set of players.
I wouldn't say the changes are "for" anyone, they're just the direction we (okay, you can blame me for most of the them) are taking. They can't not be for a "select group of players" because you can't please everyone, and we're not trying. I just got done playing a number of full games on tjw's server and really am optimistic about version 1.2, but I won't be at all offended if someone comes out with a "backport" of all the non-gameplay changes to 1.1 balance. We already have mods of Tremulous and as far as I can tell it hasn't hurt the community at all. The opposite, if anything.
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well thats dumb. i hate how people always think theyve made the greatest name for a weapon they hate by adding noob or tard to it >_>
The name has been around almost as long as Tremulous has. There is nothing new about it. It applies to the Lucifer because it is the first S3 weapon a noob will reach for. It does the most amount of damage with the least amount of skill, hence noob cannon.
"Me thinks thee protests too much."
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It applies to the Lucifer because it is the first S3 weapon a noob will reach for.
It is the only s3 weapon a noob can reach for?
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actually, lucis can be good in the hands of an actually good player, don't consign them to oblivion
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To go back on-topic. I would have put the 1.2 changes up on Fun-zone, but unfortunately there is no already compiled version :/
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@Norfenstein - I just got done playing a number of full games on tjw's server and really am optimistic about version 1.2, ...
Yes, I was there remember? It was good to see that server full again, as we commented during the game, it reminds me of the old days. I hope it continues.
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I can agree with most of the stuff but a few things need addressing.
The new turrets: They don't help with camping. A dretch can run into a human base and get 3 kills before the rets even turn around. They are now pretty much useless. This leaves you with Telsas. Which only defend against anything dumb enough to run at them. Plus you don't get them till s3.
Unlagged: Good idea bad execution. You need to lower its shot time and sensitivity. Mass driver is way to easy now. Along with las gun.
Aliens are ****** if they arn't decent with the basi. This adds a whole new element to noob. You get a guy to evo to basi so what does he do? Camp in base becuase he sucks. Runs off and dies. Or worse yet, Doesn't evo at all! Basically unless your now very skilled in base your a walking booster.
Alien regen after playing I can see its now quite as bad as I thought. But it still hurts badly and forward eggs can very easily become feeders eggs. I would rather see the regen transfered aura transferred to something like the Marauder. Its a little more fortified.
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I agree...
My S3 tyrant got owned by a chaingun, and my Adv. Goon owned by a las gun I cant even get the fuck away, they all after me, god... Aliens = Shit they suck even at S3, I got owned by a Psaw because my tyrant cant hit, his range is so short... A psaw's range shouldnt be longer than a tyrants claw... And charge takes for ever...
If you looking for unbalanced gameplay, GO HERE!! Awesome mod for unbalanced game play, a dretch can own 3 turrets with no trying, because each time you are out of their sight, they restart their bootup, and they take like 2 seconds...
This pretty much turns aliens into shit... There are some nice additions, but otherwise the game has been ruined. Making the tyrant taller also ruins the game because the maps have to be taller somewhat... (Height) and not to mention, S3 should be owning S1, but its RARE and i mean REAL rare if the humans LOSE... humans almost never lose... ask the players, they know... Other then down-toning the aliens, its a nice mod... But you guys just OVER-Did it on the fixups...
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I want to try 1.2 before I actually say anything...
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I want to try 1.2 before I actually say anything...
This not Tremulous 1.2. It's a mod for Tremulous 1.1.0 which is used by Norfenstein and TJW to figure out what changes to the Tremulous balance would be the best overall. I only posted this here because trem.tjw.org is empty most of the time, and I hoped that other server admins would hear me and also host a server to test the gameplay changes, which thankfully happened.
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So tremulous 1.2.0 will have only balance changes? :P
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So tremulous 1.2.0 will have only balance changes? :P
No, it will have flying Aliens, Medics and lots of maps with water.
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Lol, you gotta be joking (although i hope not, flying aliens ftw), they already said flying aliens won't come in trem 1.2 but please correct me if i'm wrong :)
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A psaw's range shouldnt be longer than a tyrants claw...
+#define PAINSAW_RANGE 64.0f
+#define LEVEL4_CLAW_RANGE 116.0f
Um, okay dude. Sure. 116 is totally less than 64.
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Then why the fuck cant I hit a psaw?
Me and my friend tested this.
He stood next to me, at the max range of PSAW... He started sawing me, and I tried to swipe. Swiping didnt do anything... but the psaw killed me... so explain that!
We tried it the other way too
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The numbers Lakitu7 has posted I believe are the 1.1 default numbers. You were trying the modded version?
(Correct me if I am wrong.)
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No. The old numbers are right next to the new ones, except with minus signs, because they've been removed and replaced by the lines with plus signs.
-#define PAINSAW_RANGE 40.0f
-#define LEVEL4_CLAW_RANGE 128.0f
Look for yourself. The file that you download when you connect to tjw's server is a .pk3. Copy it and rename to .zip. Then look at the .patch file in a text editor. It's right there, plain as day.
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Got it!
I stand corrected.
Thanks
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I got owned by a Psaw because my tyrant cant hit, his range is so short... A psaw's range shouldnt be longer than a tyrants claw...
Range shouldn't be an issue, as Lakitu7 points out. The reason tyrants are harder to hit with is more to do with the heavily narrowed "width"of their attack. You need to aim much more accurately to hit anything. This is kind of silly since there is no alien crosshair option yet, but please bear with us.
And charge takes for ever...
You charge up for trample just as fast as before, the change is only that you can hold a fully changed trample longer before it automatically releases (for timing your fully charged trample attacks better). This will make more sense once the appropriate ui element is added.
If you looking for unbalanced gameplay, GO HERE!! Awesome mod for unbalanced game play
We're still making changes pretty often, but on the whole the balance we have been seeing in our limit testing seems quite good (88 human, 91 alien since the last g_tag bump) -->
http://tremulous.sourceforge.net/balance/tjw-lame_regen5/overall.png
Making the tyrant taller also ruins the game because the maps have to be taller somewhat...
The tyrant's bounding box height has not changed, only the viewheight so that it lines up better with the model. It still isn't up where the head is since that's way out of the bounding box, but neck region is better than the belly-button-cam that it was.
Battle Suit however WILL have a taller model and this is something that may cause some issues with existing maps....
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Flying aliens eh?
Big or small?
Cool.
Ive got a truck mod on-the-go.
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Is the orgin of the attack where tyrant views or from belly button? if orgin = view then range must be longer to reach the old destination and if orgin = belly button then aiming human head may actualy hit the feet if i am correct.
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Well, I propose a change of those turrets.
The new turrets rule if big aliens attack. No big alien can stay in base long with those bastards around. However, they are not existent against dretches and other small stuff.
Thus, I say we need 2 types of turrets. The first one is the new turret from Trem 1.2, made to kill big stuff.
The other turret is the old turret, maybe weaker, with 2 or 3 damage.
Then, we have a weak rapidfireturret against all small things and a big beasty turret and a tesla against jumpers.
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Well, I propose a change of those turrets.
The new turrets rule if big aliens attack. No big alien can stay in base long with those bastards around. However, they are not existent against dretches and other small stuff.
Thus, I say we need 2 types of turrets. The first one is the new turret from Trem 1.2, made to kill big stuff.
The other turret is the old turret, maybe weaker, with 2 or 3 damage.
Then, we have a weak rapidfireturret against all small things and a big beasty turret and a tesla against jumpers.
So the base should defend itself?
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Just get S3 (or S2 if tjw moves teslas to S2 *let us pray*) and build teslas. Teslas and the new turrets complement eachother fine.
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OH, PLEASE, just include MORE DEFAULT MAPS! Atcs is cute and all but GIVE IT A REST!
The temple for example, is frakking gorgeous!
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And where are you building alien base in that map?
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So the base should defend itself?
show me a base surviving massive rant-attacks or good goons without humans.
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So the base should defend itself?
show me a base surviving massive rant-attacks or good goons without humans.
In 1.20
Pre-SD, very possible. They take some damage, build rebuilds, the end. Because the goons and the rants will take forever to regenerate unless they return to the base.
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dretchswarm it. if no humans are around, you cannot feed against turrets and the turrets will be nibbled down.
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i've read this thread but i have yet to find out why i get ping 999 after i connect to satgnu. i got the patch with autodownload, restarted the game and the same thing happens (and yes, i do have the tjw backport).
could someone please post a list of things changed so far or a link? thanks.
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yeah, i have the same problem on that server. however, other servers work fine so try them
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Tyrant & Basilisk+ can regenerate from 26 hp to a full 350 hp in 12 seconds.
Compare that to 1.1.0, where a Tyrant will regenerate from 64 hp to 400 hp in 24 seconds, twice the time.
Granted, with the nerfed Tyrants, they should probably cost 4 evos.
All in all, I still like a lot of stuff from 1.1.0 more than 1.2.0
1.1.5 anyone?
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Noobius"]
could someone please post a list of things changed so far or a link? thanks.
They are tracked here-
http://tremulous.tjw.org/
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i think that taking away ankle bites will just make drenches imperveous to rifle men. this shouldn't be changed
forgive my spelling/gramer
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I think that the Tyrant's camera should be lowered. It seems as though it is affecting slashing range, I don't know why. I walk right up to humies, so close that I would be going through them with noclip, and I cannot hit them, even if I corner them.
Also, what with the amount of damage humans can now do, tyrant HP should NOT have been lowered to 350. 400 was good. It's not the exact numbers I'm really worried about, it's just the fact that it was lowered at all.
Lasgun should cost at least 350-400 now, unlagged gives it a TON of power, as well as its, correct me if i'm wrong, increased fire rate.
Mara's claw range is like...like...oh damn it's too high...I would honestly say it is the range of the 1.1 tyrant or more. It could just be some weird result of a combination of certain settings, but still, mara range is like 7 feet.
There's something weird when I grab a human with basi. I jump to get headshots, but when I jump, I kinda grind up them, like lag, but it definitely ISN'T lag. As in, my screen quickly freezes, unfreezes, freezes again when I jump while grabbing a humie. Apart from that, nothing wrong with basi, cept maybe gas range. *cough* 200000000 feet.
The chaingun is more accurate than before, yet its spread is much much wider. Uhhh, how?
Finally...Unlagged. As much as I love unlagged, I will admit, it makes anyone who can aim OK god with hitscan weapons. You don't even really have to aim anymore. A marauder can jump past you, you shoot half a second later, and hit it, knowing there was no way in HELL without an aimbot you could EVER hit that marauder without unlagged there.
I know, we gotta bear with you...I do like a lot of the changes as they are, like tyrant charge. It is fun, but turning could be tuned down a bit, and also the powering of the charge should stop if they hit something, like a wall. Otherwise, the damage from it is fine, no problems with that. Although, rant slash width should be a little bit higher. Otherwise, new players are gonna have absolutely no chance, EVER. But don't make it what it was. Like, if it was 10 in 1.1, and it's 1 in 1.2, make it 4.
That's all. Sorry bout the lengthynecissity. :D
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if i took the time to make a huge ass post it would look like dracone's.
i 100% agree with it except for
mara and basi
mara range has always been long. unlagged just makes it seem longer >_< i dont get grinding basi. and basi gas doesnt go very far when theyre running from you.
tyrant needs something. preferably a little bit of everything back (slightly lower camera, slightly longer/wider range, 375 hp)
bsuit is more accurate somehow some way with the spread. ive noticed this and thought i was going insane until someone else said it.
if you guyz (trem dev) are trying to make aliens rely more on the aliens secondary attacks than their primary attacks (which it looks like youre doing) you might want to beef them up a little more. they still arent really worth it.
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Finally...Unlagged. As much as I love unlagged, I will admit, it makes anyone who can aim OK god with hitscan weapons. You don't even really have to aim anymore. A marauder can jump past you, you shoot half a second later, and hit it, knowing there was no way in HELL without an aimbot you could EVER hit that marauder without unlagged there.
Unlagged is NOT an aimbot, and there is nothing you can do with it that you couldn't do without, providing your awareness of the current lag induced position of your opponent was good.
What happens is that you were too dependent on lag evasion for your mara actions.
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I didn't say it was an aimbot persay. I said that without unlagged, you would NEED an aimbot to actually hit this thing. I didn't say that it does this every time, which a good aimbot would. IT happens VERY often though, and I also see nothing actually "lag induced" unless they have over 150 ping. I've also STOOD behind an armory, accidentally put the ENTIRE BLAST from the shotty into it, and killed a mara behind it. What is that?
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I didn't say it was an aimbot persay. I said that without unlagged, you would NEED an aimbot to actually hit this thing. I didn't say that it does this every time, which a good aimbot would. IT happens VERY often though, and I also see nothing actually "lag induced" unless they have over 150 ping. I've also STOOD behind an armory, accidentally put the ENTIRE BLAST from the shotty into it, and killed a mara behind it. What is that?
THAT is probably a bug. Unless you think Unlagged make that on purpose :o
Without Unlagged, attacker has to aim in the future to hit something. It means aliens with very high acceleration capabilities ( mara jumping ) get very hard to hit when on the ground because you never know if in the future, the mara will jump or not. That's also why the best time to kill a mara is when it's jumping : it has no more acceleration capabilities. THAT is lag induced evasion. You make evasive maneuvres and the opponent will not be able to react to them because he won't see them by the time he fires, but the server knows about them.
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"Trample and Pounce will not do friendly fire damage."
that's where most of the alien ff went. why remove them? you can now hit a bsuit for example several times against a wall with a trample but you can't damage another alien?
can't say anything about the turrets and the rest until i actually see them in action, but this sounds silly even without testing.
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I didn't say it was an aimbot persay. I said that without unlagged, you would NEED an aimbot to actually hit this thing. I didn't say that it does this every time, which a good aimbot would. IT happens VERY often though, and I also see nothing actually "lag induced" unless they have over 150 ping. I've also STOOD behind an armory, accidentally put the ENTIRE BLAST from the shotty into it, and killed a mara behind it. What is that?
THAT is probably a bug. Unless you think Unlagged make that on purpose :o
Without Unlagged, attacker has to aim in the future to hit something. It means aliens with very high acceleration capabilities ( mara jumping ) get very hard to hit when on the ground because you never know if in the future, the mara will jump or not. That's also why the best time to kill a mara is when it's jumping : it has no more acceleration capabilities. THAT is lag induced evasion. You make evasive maneuvres and the opponent will not be able to react to them because he won't see them by the time he fires, but the server knows about them.
Right...I still shoot maras on the ground though, but yes, they are much easier to hit when in the air...although there are certain weapons that do go against that.
A bug...do you mean a bug WITH unlagged?
See, I forgot to specify this, but it's only happening to me with the unlagged at servers running tjw's changes...unlagged at our Zilla server doesn't do this stuff. At MG Domination, however, I am somehow hitting things that aren't on my screen. As in, things go behind me, I shoot in front of me like 1/4 of a second later, and I what went behind me, even though I see every pellet from the shotty hit the wall in front of me.
Also, you can ask quite a few people, you can put 3+ direct, full blasts into a dretch with a shotty and it won't die. And I wouldn't call it rare either. More like occasional. It's weird. No other weapon, afaik, has that bug where the alien bleeds and you hear it make noises from damage, but it really didn't take damage.
It seems a lot of this is happening with shotty...I have no clue about any of the deep technical stuff, but is it even POSSIBLE for the shotty to have a compatibility issue with this unlagged? :-?
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Noobius"]that's where most of the alien ff went. why remove them?
Most of the friendly fire from these came from using them as movement abilities, not attacks, and it makes aliens significantly less fun to restrict their movement abilities.
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Yes, but it makes it significantly more fun to charge spam and kill like 4 humies in one charge. :tyrant: runs at :helmet: :human: :human: :helmet: and kills :helmet: :human: :human: :helmet: resulting in happy :granger: :granger: :granger: but a human defense of more :battlesuit: :battlesuit:.
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Noobius"]that's where most of the alien ff went. why remove them?
Most of the friendly fire from these came from using them as movement abilities, not attacks, and it makes aliens significantly less fun to restrict their movement abilities.
just honk before pouncing/trampling...it makes friendlies get out of the way ^^
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i dont like massive change at the best of time but all the thought of how much tremulous is going to change is nauseating, not all of those changes are for the better either. i may be asking an already answered question but is the creator of tjw's mod taking input from forums or his own private tests?
p.s. is there any way to make my picture smaller?
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i dont like massive change at the best of time but all the thought of how much tremulous is going to change is nauseating, not all of those changes are for the better either. i may be asking an already answered question but is the creator of tjw's mod taking input from forums or his own private tests?
Both, and he is actually doing a lot of small adjustments in sequence now to get it right in one go later. So the correct statement would be:
"tjw's current modifications are not necessarily all final and are subject to change in the coming weeks/months and to be defined by statistics gathered from server and user reaction gathered from irc, forums, ingame and experienced players."
p.s. is there any way to make my picture smaller?
yes, the easy way is to shrink it in an image-editing program and reupload. Even paint can do that.
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After playing around for awhile I have to say, I really enjoy playing as the adv mara and adv lisk now.. Mara's new zap is spamalicious (I managed to get 3 humans in the hallway on atcs to 20ish hp before being luci'd) and using the lisk and gasing all those chainsuits chasing your rant buddy sure is enjoyable.
I really like almost all of the changes, although I feel that turrets could use a little bit more tweaking, perhaps quicker up/down movement but not rotational movement? This would help get those wallwalking dretches a little better, but I suppose then people would just make ret walls.
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p.s. is there any way to make my picture smaller?
yes, the easy way is to shrink it in an image-editing program and reupload. Even paint can do that.
hmm...but if u mean the animation, im sure u need to do it frame by frame...and i don't think paint supports animation, i may be wrong :-? in linux u can use image magick, i think
EDIT: here is the help for image magick: http://www.imagemagick.org/Usage/anim_mods/#resize
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p.s. is there any way to make my picture smaller?
yes, the easy way is to shrink it in an image-editing program and reupload. Even paint can do that.
hmm...but if u mean the animation, im sure u need to do it frame by frame...and i don't think paint supports animation, i may be wrong :-? in linux u can use image magick, i think
EDIT: here is the help for image magick: http://www.imagemagick.org/Usage/anim_mods/#resize
He changed his sig already. It was stationary
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oh
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adv dragoon at s2? that sounds like a bad idea.
Since the goons don't have their uber healing anymore, the goon isn't as powerful as it used to be.
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If there were new weapons or structures, people would be more excited to play on those servers.
Small gameplay changes are really boring. I've played the changes a couple of times in the past weeks but they really don't excite me. Its just small changes.
The major issues still really haven't been addressed:
1) A solo human counter to tyrants
2) Encouragement to get humans out of the base
3) Compromise to dretch ground-head-bites.
4) Barricade usefulness and the overall boringness of alien bases
5) Still don't really see a use for basilisks or marauders other than the forced need for basilisks for regen.
6) Alien grenade (marauder zap are still blah)
7) Human weapon complexity and limit in overall effectiveness between aliens (good at everything, scale between s1 and s3 well) whereas humans are good at only certain things per gear load out and don't really scale in power with stage progression.
These changes address issues that I really don't feel where major issues.
1.Have you ever seen a tyrant counter a good team of Bsuits?
2.Less healing from the aliens=more incentive to chase
3.Ground dretch bites arn't cheap, leave um. If you say weaken the dretch HS, why not limit the human's weapon range?
4.Barricades slow the humans. use it to protect an egg from a grenade maybe?
5.Lisk grab=so much easier-mara zap=unlimited. BTW if you actually played Adv.lisk now poisons Bsuits
6.WTF do you need this? when did aliens become techie nerds?
7.Every human gun pwns at doing certain jobs. Shottie=Goon. Las=dretch/mara/lisk/ long range. Btw ever heard of the PRifle/Helmet?
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Arguing against unlagged because it allows everyone to shoot directly at things is extremely foolish.
People with low pings can aim directly at things already. People with high pings cant. Unlagged merely levels the playing field.
Indeed I'm surprised there is dissent on this matter at all. I remember the client side prediction patch for half life, and that was universally well recieved, and allowed the half life mod revolution to happen.
CS, TFC, DOD, NS etc would never have become so popular without it.