Tremulous Forum

General => Feedback => Topic started by: theRifle on April 22, 2007, 12:29:49 pm

Title: Laggers - or: Why see a slideshow instead of smooth moves?
Post by: theRifle on April 22, 2007, 12:29:49 pm: For next version of trem: Did anyone consider to get rid of those players lagging around with more than 200 or sometimes even 500 Ping? (Sure, the admin can configure the server for low pings only, but this solves not the whole problem).

200 Ping is equal to: Playerposition is updated max. 5 times a second and what u see in tremulous is a slideshow (even if u play at 90 FPS, the human or dretch in Tremulous "moves" like in a slideshow and is far away from what I would call a "smooth motion")!

It would be rather cool, if the client/server interpolates the clientmoves - and use this Information for check, if someone was hit.

Technically explanation: Every client sees every player only in smooth motion - if a client provides information not fast enough (ping to low) last direction and angle is used to calculate the position of the player, even for hitcalculations - this should be rather simple (*). The server then sends an updatePosition-Information to the lagger, if position had to be adjusted).

This would move the problem to the correct side: namely to those people who join a server where they have 200+ ping. Okay - people which connect to servers and have over 200 Ping will hate this, but this will force them to go to servers with lower ping!

(*) Use last 3 positions, calculate a spline, velocity and acceleration is also known -> new Position of player can be calculated easily. Only a bit complexer are moves cause of Lucijump (or Grenade).
Title: Laggers - or: Why see a slideshow instead of smooth moves?
Post by: Odin on April 22, 2007, 04:00:26 pm: This is almost impossible because of the way Quake3 is designed. There would be no way of knowing which way the player moves next because the game server would have to look into the future to correct the lag.

Warping(and idiotic players) is just something we'll have to deal with.
Title: Laggers - or: Why see a slideshow instead of smooth moves?
Post by: techhead on April 22, 2007, 05:04:26 pm: Actually, tjw's antilag does this to a degree, almost eliminating warping.
It also tends to give benefit-of-the-doubt when calculating collisions based on incomplete data.
Title: Laggers - or: Why see a slideshow instead of smooth moves?
Post by: Rawr on April 22, 2007, 05:21:26 pm: Tjw has made unlagged and anti-warp
Title: Laggers - or: Why see a slideshow instead of smooth moves?
Post by: Surge on April 24, 2007, 01:13:36 pm: yep but the unlagged sucks u move, avoid a shot then get killed and warp backwards in time cause of lag
Title: Laggers - or: Why see a slideshow instead of smooth moves?
Post by: tjw on April 24, 2007, 03:44:12 pm: Actually, g_unlagged is for hit detection only so it does nothing to smooth out player movement.

I have done some work on skip correction here:
https://bugzilla.icculus.org/show_bug.cgi?id=2948

However, this implementation is buggy and it may not even be the best method to go about this.

Note that if you see everyone skipping, then no server change can help you because it's a problem with your incoming connection. Make sure you turn up the /rate setting in your client (the 1.1.0 default was 5000). You probably want to set this to 25000 unless you have dialup or ISDN internet service.
Title: Laggers - or: Why see a slideshow instead of smooth moves?
Post by: Somethief on April 24, 2007, 03:45:33 pm: Unlagged is far away from finished and causes more trouble than fixes, use real servers near to you instead
Title: Laggers - or: Why see a slideshow instead of smooth moves?
Post by: n00b pl0x on April 25, 2007, 02:49:53 am: Quote from: "Somethief"
Unlagged is far away from finished and causes more trouble than fixes, use real servers near to you instead

but i like saws with 4x their normal range
Title: Laggers - or: Why see a slideshow instead of smooth moves?
Post by: Paradox on April 25, 2007, 05:35:51 am: Or being able to hit a marauder that vacated the spot you shot at 5 minutes ago.
Title: Laggers - or: Why see a slideshow instead of smooth moves?
Post by: Ceaser342 on April 25, 2007, 12:29:08 pm: Or shooting at a random and getting 4 md kills.
Title: Laggers - or: Why see a slideshow instead of smooth moves?
Post by: n00b pl0x on April 27, 2007, 05:34:15 am: /*disclaimer

idk anything about anti-warping

*/

Would a slightly simple way of doing this be to make the person sit in the same spot when the lag up (like normal) but then when all the info rushes to the server, instead of being used at once, make it play at normal speed (or a little faster so if they sit in a corner or something theyll eventually catch up if they dont lag up again.) It would severely hurt the warper, but they should be encouraged to fix their ping, play somewhere else, or deal with it. Then, when the person dies, while theyre in that second or two after you die but cant spawn, it fastforwards to the present if need be.
Title: Laggers - or: Why see a slideshow instead of smooth moves?
Post by: f0rqu3 on April 27, 2007, 05:39:31 am: only hitscan weapons are available on quake3 servers running unlagged mod
as far as I know
Title: Laggers - or: Why see a slideshow instead of smooth moves?
Post by: your_mum on May 10, 2007, 06:10:36 am: Quote
only hitscan weapons are available on quake3 servers running unlagged mod
as far as I know

All weapons are available however, only hitscan weapons move all the players back to the time when the shot was taken for hitscan.

Another idea:
http://www.quakesrc.org/forums/viewtopic.php?t=7546
Title: Laggers - or: Why see a slideshow instead of smooth moves?
Post by: ^Black on May 10, 2007, 11:12:58 am: Unlagged should be illegal.
Title: Laggers - or: Why see a slideshow instead of smooth moves?
Post by: Henners on May 10, 2007, 11:24:48 am: Thank you for a useful contribution black.

Unlagged effects everyone on the server. It shouldn't be made illegal - it should be improved so I can play :cry:
Title: Laggers - or: Why see a slideshow instead of smooth moves?
Post by: David on May 10, 2007, 12:46:29 pm: Maybe add an option like g_nounlagged that clients can set in their userinfo, that makes the server not unlagged them.
Title: Laggers - or: Why see a slideshow instead of smooth moves?
Post by: Stof on May 10, 2007, 01:45:42 pm: Quote from: "David"
Maybe add an option like g_nounlagged that clients can set in their userinfo, that makes the server not unlagged them.

Second worse idea ever!
Title: Laggers - or: Why see a slideshow instead of smooth moves?
Post by: David on May 10, 2007, 03:54:56 pm: What's the worst ever?
And why is it *that* bad?
Title: Laggers - or: Why see a slideshow instead of smooth moves?
Post by: Stof on May 10, 2007, 04:19:34 pm: Well, excuse me but I must ask a question first.

Do you want to disable unlagged on your shots, or disable unlagged on the shots made against you? First case can already be done with the current client side unnlagged settings IIRC.

Second case is bad bad bad. Players in a game won't know if they must aim square on their opponent or if they must laglead because the correct way to do it would depend on your settings! Besides, all the really low ping players who don't benefit much from unlagged could disable it and then they would once again gain a bullet avoidance advantage against the other players which is exactly what unlagged was made to prevent. ie, it would completly defeat the purpose of unlagged.
Title: Laggers - or: Why see a slideshow instead of smooth moves?
Post by: sleekslacker on May 10, 2007, 06:26:05 pm: It should be unlagged for all, or nothing for everyone. It would be unfair to turn it off for certain players.