Tremulous Forum
General => General Discussion => Topic started by: Silverius on April 12, 2006, 01:59:17 pm
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Enough talk of griefers. Let's talk about other annoyances for a change. What's your top annoyance?
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do i have to pick only 1?? what if i get annoyed equally by pretty much all of them??? :D
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Well you could try luciferring the phpBB guys into making multiple options polls but somehow I doubt that will work ;).
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Imbalanced teams.
NO, I don't mean the teams in tremulous as a game I mean matches when there are experienced players on one team versus a team of n00bs. Switching teams to even the match is a kick in the pants because you lose all kills and accumulated credits/points.
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would be cool if there was some kind of ranking system that could be used on servers to balance teams..
or maybe just a ranking system period :D
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As alien (especially goon+ and tyrant): Teammates blocking your movement
As human: Teammates shooting structures
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Uneven teams and team members blocking the way are the two biggest annoyances. Sometimes blocking the way is unavoidable (in tight quarters), but it's still annoying ... and yeah I accidentally do it sometimes too ...
it would be nice if you could shove people out of the way ... like slowly push them out of the way.
As for uneven teams ... I'm sure that's being worked on.
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Has to be teammates blocking your way,when you have a flamethrower and a team mate stands infront of you and you toast your self is....annoying.
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I don't care much for bad base builders.
Some people don't understand that sometimes, the initial spawn is really a terrible spot to place a base, and then if everything is placed poorly, it makes things difficult.
I don't like it when my team ends up feeding either.
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I think noobs that don't listen and aren't willing to read the manual are the worst. That pretty much involves half of the options though.
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I'm especially annoyed that this game actively promotes camping, because anyone would prefer fighting with turrets on their side. If you relocate your base to a good spot, prepare yourself for 60 min of stalemate.
This, and basilisk. It's a waste of points to evolve into one, unless you're 100 percent sure there's an undefended base which can be reached with wallwalking.
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borsuk, you obviously still need to play with good players. Basilisk is a nasty alien vs s1 and s2 in the right hands, in s3 its great support unit to help dragoons kill bsuits. And camping =! win. this game has to be played agressively in order to win. Maybe if you spent more time playing than whining you would realize this.
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I'm especially annoyed that this game actively promotes camping, because anyone would prefer fighting with turrets on their side. If you relocate your base to a good spot, prepare yourself for 60 min of stalemate.
This, and basilisk. It's a waste of points to evolve into one, unless you're 100 percent sure there's an undefended base which can be reached with wallwalking.
You haven't played many games have you? Or do you only play games like Quake3 DeathMatch / TDM. Or maybe you only play MMORPGs and decided to give this one a try?
The fact is, this is a different type of game. This is a strategy based FPS. Camping in this game is a LEGAL strategy, because you not only get the kills your team needs to advance to the next level, but it stops the game from ending too quickly.
If you want to complain about camping, go play CS or another game where strategy has no direct influence on the balance of the game.
Honestly, my biggest annoyance is people who come on to servers when I'm playing Trem, or Enemy Territory and shout "you're a camper!!" or "stop camping!!"
You can make jokes: one game a guy said to us "hey humans, need some camping equipment?" and I played along.
But to NOT realize that this game is a STRATEGY game and NOT a rambo, get as many kills as you can game, and start yelling "camper!!" shows that you are a nub. No, not a newbie. A nub. I explained the difference in another thread; look for it.
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Team members blocking the way. It often happens that some little Gretches think they must be in a Dragoon's way. Yeah, the result is that i die and they can escape, great ... :x
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Games either end fast within 15 minutes or so, or end as 60 minute stalemates. There's no problem with alien camping, because humans are well equipped to destroy bases. But a human base in elevator room, for example, means a 60 minute stalemate.
Camping is not a problem in Enemy Territory, sorry. In ET players don't have to decide between attack and offense. As a result entire allied team attacks, and entire axis team defends; attacks are better coordinated, often so much that you have trouble reaching your defensive position. Even newbies attack and follow their teammates, because there's absolutely no action in alien starting points, and nothing to lose.
As for CS, it's a crappy game anyway, who cares.
In trem both teams can lose if they leave their bases unprotected; this encourages base camping. Additionaly humans get much better stuff at stage2 than aliens do, this further encourages camping. If human team decides to camp in their base for 5 or 10 minutes, or how long it takes to reach stage2, some aliens will feed them anyway. Low risk high reward. Then they can attack on stage2.
Take Uncreation as example. If humans want, they can completely safely camp until stage2 and attack with jetpacks. Jetpacks are very hard to take out with stage1 aliens. You'll soon have a blaster or two shooting at your overmind. And you'll be glad when it's just blaster.
While trem sides/races are assymetric, map goals are much more symmetric than in ET. In trem, both teams lose if they don't defend their bases. This encourages camping. If you have trouble understanding it and spotting difference between ET and trem game goals, you shouldn't discuss topics such as camping. Two maps, atcs and uncreation, have this awful CTF feeling, too - they're very symetric.
It would be cool to have some Assault-style maps in tremulous.
Play as marauder and you'll have very easy time escaping.
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Taking Uncreation as example of biased map is a bit unfair, it's fairly well known for being the map for humans.
Furthermore humans are much, much, more reliant on their base than aliens. Plus, aliens can hide their spaws all over the map. An alien team with three decent grangers can leave it's base undefended with as only penalty having to rebuild the OM from time to time.
And I must say that I have yet to witness aliens camping the way humans do. Most of the time they are on the offense.
And the elevator room can be dealt with. Aliens can very effectively pick humans off in the corridors nearby. If the human team doesn't adequately defend the air shaft (think maurader) it can be quite deadly.
As for jetpackers I have this to say: gas. The advanced basilisk can walk on the ceiling and fire gas when the jetpacker comes close. As gas deals damage the jetpack fails. Bye jetpacker. I'm sure other stage 1 aliens can be used too. Of course, in Uncreation you're probably out of luck, but that's just that map.
Btw, aliens can effectively win on Uncreation. The trick is to use the aliens forward base ability to make a few spawns and tubes behind the arch dividing the human terrority. As the backdoor doesn't open until level 2 (or 3, don't know exactly) the aliens will control the exit bottleneck of the human base. Subsequently the aliens just have to pick off the inevitable fools who go out and evolve. When enough kills are made get a team of dragoons and trample in. The spawns should be fairly doable meat.
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Camping can be annoying ..lol
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b0rsuk, the reason your games are finishing in 15 minutes or ending in stalemates, must be that you either suck, aren't helping the team, or your entire team doesn't know how to do anything.
Whatever it is, ALL of my games now end in 30 minutes, with a clear winner.
Yes, you can camp in ET. You can camp right out side of the spawn exit. This is called spawn camping. Many people do it. You can also camp when your team needs to cover the objective. I have played this game for 2 years, and I've been mapping for 1. Don't even try to fight with me about it, because I know it well.
There are maps in ET that are duel obj, and the players DO have to decided whether they are attacking or defending. Also, on the most simple map, you still have to choose whether you're going to be pushing forward, or defending the obj/team mates. There is always a decision to make.
You talked about everything, but what I was telling you. THIS GAME IS ALL ABOUT STRATEGY. Camping IS a strategy.
I feel the only reason you are around here is to cause trouble on the forums, because you don't seem to comprehend how to play this game.
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builders messing with my shit is the prime annoyance.
i HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE it.
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I cannot tell you how many times I have had this conversation:
UnnamedPlayer:"LOLOLOLOL hwo U t3h chnge ru nmaezroz!!!!"
(How do you change your name?)
ChaosWeevil: "RTFM, fool"
UP: "iDidnt gte noes manule..."
(I didn't get a manual.)
CW: "Yeah you did. It's in the Start Menu folder."
UP: "I ues tehL iniks"
(I use Linux)
CW: "It's at http://www.tremulous.net/manual"
UP: "I dontg wan quitz to luuk"
(I don't wanna quit to look)
CW: *Kicks UnnamedPlayer*
RRAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHH!!!! :evil:
Ok, so I'm exagerating a bit, but you get the idea.
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builders messing with my shit is the prime annoyance.
i HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE it.
So true :(. Yesterday I played in a team where before I even got view a noob reloced the reactor on nexus to just beyond the entrance corridor to the left of the base. Result: armory unpowered. He justified it, on global chat, in all caps, with that the other place was in the open. Uh, and placing it in the way of every alien coming in through that path isn't?
After I placed the reactor back where it belonged a build war ensued with basically him moving armory and such to stupid positions (right behind some turrets isn't a good spot for an armory and medpad, aliens can take them out with a single dragoon). Needless to say, we lost. The aliens must have had an easy game though, as he kept using the global channel so that the aliens were at all times well informed of our status.
Tell me, is it good style to initiate a kick vote for such fools? :evil:
Oh, and in case some newb hasn't gotten the message yet: don't go building unless you know what you're doing. And when you're starting as a builder don't destroy stuff unless somebody told you to.
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More annoyances:
- 'leet' players complain about lack of competent builders, yet discourage new players to try it. Experienced players are often rude and therefore responsible for the problem. I understand building 5 boosters is not useful, but they will never learn to do it properly if they don't try. Even interface is cumbersome and takes a while to get used to.
When there's a newbie granger, he's an idiot and should go fuck himself. But when Overmind is dead and there are no spare newbie grangers and only leet granger on team is dead/can't reach safe spot.... it becomes newbies fault. Either way, it's a newbie's fault. I suggest more tolerance.
- popup windows, especially associated with evolving and building, are very annoying and from time to time cause me to die. They block your movement until you hit ok. I say remove popup windows from interface and replace them with big colored messages on the screen, like "NO POWER" or "THERE CAN BE ONLY ONE OVERMIND". Messages that don't block movement.
- I suggest following change to human armory menu/buttons:
Rifle light armor
Painsaw helmet
Shotgun battery pack
Lasgun battlesuit
Flamethrower cskit
(...)
Basically dividing buyable stuff into two columns, weapons and other. It would make it easier to navigate. Unless you have binds for everything, buying equipment and ammo gets old very quickly.
- is there any reason I have to bind separate key to "buy ammo" ? Couldn't it be done automatically when I get close to armory/reactor/repeater ? Is there any reason I would NOT want my weapon reloaded when I'm buying armor or something ?
- FF should be assymetric: ON for humans, OFF for aliens. Playing aliens with FF on really sucks. I played a couple of games as basilisk yesterday, and died more from teamkills than from enemies. If you grab an enemy from behind and you see friendly tyrant/dragoon near, RUN FOR YOUR LIFE. With FF on, there's no way to safely cooperate on killing a human, unless you're dretch. Unlike playing humans, alien teamkills are result of the interface, you have much less control on what you're about to hit, it's not point and click like with humans.
- I don't know how exactly scoring system for aliens works, but it can be very unfair. I got pulse rifle from behind with my basilisk and slashed him 3 times total. A dretch arrived, hit human once and got the kill. It would be relatively easy to fix - just bias scores a bit towards basilisk if human died while being held. Playing basilisk and helping your team is unrewarding.
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OFF-TOPIC (boring)
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b0rsuk, the reason your games are finishing in 15 minutes or ending in stalemates, must be that you either suck, aren't helping the team, or your entire team doesn't know how to do anything.
Does it still apply when I spectate players for a hour or two ? I mean, is it still my fault when two teams stalemate for a hour, and neither of them contains me ? Probably yes.
Yes, you can camp in ET. You can camp right out side of the spawn exit. This is called spawn camping. Many people do it. You can also camp when your team needs to cover the objective. I have played this game for 2 years, and I've been mapping for 1.
In that case, you have been wasting your time because you learned nothing. Tremulous camping and ET spawncamping have only one thing in common: name. In cases where it happens in ET it's because one of team goes heavily on offensive. In tremulous, I mean defensive camping. It makes essentially nothing happen for a long time. In case of beginning of the match, it can be for a few minutes, because marines eventually try to move and destroy alien base to avoid tyrants. In cases like elevator room, it can last forever.
If I wanted nothing to happen in the game, I would behave like our friend all lljk nexterholland does. Remove all spawns, let teammates die, and just build turrets. In contrast, spawncamping in ET means constant (if degenerate) action. Even then, it only really happens on Railgun, and only if Axis team totally sucks... so much that they don't realize there's no point to spawn in the hut. Axis can get to depot yard faster, and after that there's no reason to ever spawn in the hut. On other maps, if entire team goes via one route and only faces one direction, they deserve to be ambushed.
There are maps in ET that are duel obj,
My .etwolf dir is 618MB, and I can't recall any of dual objective maps. All maps I know make one team attack and other defend; one team wins, other loses and no way around it.
You talked about everything, but what I was telling you. THIS GAME IS ALL ABOUT STRATEGY. Camping IS a strategy.
And it's a very boring strategy in tremulous, that's all. I camp very often when I play ET on defense, and no one has any problem with that. Enemies will come soon anyway, and camping is actually a challenge in ET because it makes you very predictable. Expect to get grenades/panzers/mortar from around a corner and so on. That's why it's simply ineffective. ET offers many ways to take out campers.
The essence of tremulous camping is that it makes nothing happen it often results in total stalemate. Aliens have almost no ranged weapons.
Tremulous is ALL ABOUT DEATHMATCH. You can help entire team a lot reach next stage by getting flamer/dragoon and killing several enemies. Game mechanics promote people with biggest skills/aim/ping. Winner gets more stuff, and this enables him to win even more. More than anything else, tremulous promotes killing for the sake of killing. Your teammates will praise you if you can get 10 kills / 0 death in the start of the round. Moreover, simply killing lots of stuff is useful, because it creates bottleneck with eggs.
What game mechanics don't promote, is taking risk; why try to seriously attack elevator room with several tyrants and dragoons if you can lose it all and allow human team to attack ? Big-scale attack is a big gamble, you may not recover after failing.
No such problems in ET.
I feel the only reason you are around here is to cause trouble on the forums, because you don't seem to comprehend how to play this game.
From now on, I will be ignoring your posts. Your post is lots of off-topic, personal attacks based on half-assed assumptions, you have no points to make and have no argumentation other than "I say so", and it's clear you make no effort to understand what I'm saying. You conveniently don't mention that each time I say I don't like something, I back it up with argumentation and suggest improvements.
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More annoyances:
- 'leet' players complain about lack of competent builders, yet discourage new players to try it. Experienced players are often rude and therefore responsible for the problem. I understand building 5 boosters is not useful, but they will never learn to do it properly if they don't try. Even interface is cumbersome and takes a while to get used to.
When there's a newbie granger, he's an idiot and should go fuck himself. But when Overmind is dead and there are no spare newbie grangers and only leet granger on team is dead/can't reach safe spot.... it becomes newbies fault. Either way, it's a newbie's fault. I suggest more tolerance.
True, they have to practice to become good builders. That doesn't take away though that it's a very good idea to first learn the basics of the game, the way aliens and humans play, before starting to build.
But I agree with the irritating about the 'leet' players. People pretending to be experienced and bashing the rest of the team is high on my irritation scale too. If they really are experienced they should have learned that on a public server you get mediocre teams, for good teams join/form a clan and have a clan war.
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Does it still apply when I spectate players for a hour or two ? I mean, is it still my fault when two teams stalemate for a hour, and neither of them contains me ? Probably yes.
Yes, it could quite possibly be your fault, because when you sit in spectator, you take up a server slot. And therefore, you may be possibly blocking someone who can actually turn the game around for whatever team, and win it. Same as any other game though, and not just Trem.
In that case, you have been wasting your time because you learned nothing. Tremulous camping and ET spawncamping have only one thing in common: name.
Camping is camping. Camping in Quake2 is the same as Camping in CS or DOD or any other game. There is no offensive or defensive camping, because you can do both from the same position.
Even then, it only really happens on Railgun, and only if Axis team totally sucks... so much that they don't realize there's no point to spawn in the hut. Axis can get to depot yard faster, and after that there's no reason to ever spawn in the hut.
Any self respecting player knows that rail gun is an ill designed map. The same as radar. And there is a reason to spawn in the hut > To spawn near the train when it's by the switch, so you don't have to run all the way from Depot.
My .etwolf dir is 618MB, and I can't recall any of dual objective maps. All maps I know make one team attack and other defend; one team wins, other loses and no way around it.
You know, it's too bad you're not going to even read this post, because you're going to miss this list of fine DUAL OBJ maps for ET. But oh well. Oh and as always, size doesn't matter. And the maps:
Den of Lions, Market Garden, Base Race, Fliegerhorst, Byzantine, Desert Fortress, MD Bridge, Trainyard (just to name a few.. there are more, but I don't think I need to prove it any further).
And it's a very boring strategy in tremulous, that's all. I camp very often when I play ET on defense, and no one has any problem with that. Enemies will come soon anyway, and camping is actually a challenge in ET because it makes you very predictable
I would hate to be on your team. Seriously. If all you're going to do is sit around waiting for stuff to happen... I'd rather shoot you in the head myself.
Tremulous is ALL ABOUT DEATHMATCH.
A DM game is where the player (or in TDM, team) with the most kills wins the map. That is NOT true for Trem, in the least. As I have said in game, even if you are the LAST team to reach Level 3, you can still win. And guess what, the map after I said that, Aliens were level 3 after humans got it, and aliens still won. And you can't say either team was stacked, because both teams had good people.
Big-scale attack is a big gamble, you may not recover after failing.
No such problems in ET.
Ever play limited lives in ET? No, probably not. I wouldn't expect you had. Either way, a large scale attack is a gamble in ET as well, because look at Gold Rush. If you're trying to get the gold, and the whole allies team rushes, but gets panzered, then you've wasted ~60 seconds.
you have no points to make and have no argumentation other than "I say so", and it's clear you make no effort to understand what I'm saying. You conveniently don't mention that each time I say I don't like something,
Says the guy that came into the forum, and started comparing Trem to NS. And I understand exactly what you are attempting to say, but your points are either from ignorance, mis-understanding, or mis-conception. You can't play 15 rounds of Trem and go "this game sucks; it's not balanced; etc etc". I'm trying to correct your oversights but you're not listening ANYWAYS, so why do I bother? Because someone else might read these posts and it may help THEM.
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Enough talk of griefers. Let's talk about other annoyances for a change. What's your top annoyance?
It has to be (for me, as a new player) more experienced players whinging on and on, making unhelpful criticisms / insults about the team - makes me just want to disconnect, if some of them just made general helpful tips or contructive criticism then they may find that things improve.
That and blocking - it's kinda bad when your trying to run off and somebody just sits there - having enough time to type "[playername] can you move plz" usually = dead. :(
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My experience is that those who make those comments are not very experienced. If they were experienced they'd know that Trem is a team game and that teamplay doesn't mean insulting the team. Plus such folks never seem to actually do something to coordinate the team. Just disregard them.
As for blocking teammates. A teamchat is not the way to deal with that, it takes to long. You could try pointing at them and pressing 'u'. If I'm not mistaking that will allow you to type a message to only them. Haven't found a way to make a "move away" bind though :(.
Alternatively try firing at them (if you're human) to get their attention.
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I'm not sure if it belongs to this topic, but it annoys me when aliens don't *think* about what they're doing. Take this map with extremely cool glass window as example.(extremely cool for mocking people with a basilisk)
Marines often try to move their base to the corridor. And they often use "See, telenodes don't need power to work, we're so leet !" trick. Which means that at some point, usually on stage1, there are 2 unguarded telenodes ! So what do my alien teammates do ? Do they leave unpowered health pad and a turret alone, so it's blocking build points and preventing humans from building more stuff at new base location ? Or do they wait patiently for free lunch to spawn ? Or perhaps they wait for human patrol coming with essentially unarmed builders trying to deconstruct telenodes and other stuff ?
No !! They destroy the unguarded buildings, especially telenodes ! No free lunch for me ! Is this cheap trick really so hard to discover or what ?!
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It annoys me that a single person can vote and restart map if no one else cares to vote. Or one person can kick best dragoon on the other team. Voting system should require certain percentage of people to vote.
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uncreation annoys me to no end. Especially if voting is disabled. It's easy to get a vote to for next map, but if it's disabled...
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Lucifer spam annoys me a lot, especially that lucifer has ridiculous clip of 90, and that's without battery pack. You can spam bottlenecks with it for as long as you want. You hit players you had no idea were there. Lucifer gun is hard counter to teamwork.
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it annoys me that grenade is so small, silent and so hard to notice. Attack turrets and you get your ass handed to you. Attack humans going outside and you run into grenade which is very hard to notice(big FOV on dretches etc). And if you kill just 1 dretch with it, it costs you $25.
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Another annoyance... You join a game already in progress. You have no cash/no points.
So you attack battlesuit/flamer with your dretch. You hit him several times and ultimately die. You respawn, hit him some more, die. You respawn and kill finally kill him.
Your reward: 1 point. Congratulations ! Evolve to basilisk, GO FORTH AND DESTROY, MORTAL ! KIll those battlesuits and teslas with your basilisk !
Now another scenario. You join a game in progress, and join human team. With a turret, some luck (being in the right place at the right time), better position, or dancing around obstacles like crates, you kill a dretch ($175) and help teammates kill a dragoon (up to $600). Now you can afford light armor, helmet, and pulse rifle. Deffinitely doable with your starting machinegun, and not that hard either.
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Another annoyance: there's a newbish battlesuit/flamer (or lucifer) and I tease it with a marauder. I hit it once or twice, and he toasts himself/irradiates himself. I get no point.
If I were a human, I would get some credits for causing wounds even if alien died to turret.
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Some things that really irk me are:
People that call other people noobs constantly or feel the need to flaunt their massive internet-egos
People that don't have the common decency to tell their team when they're moving the base, also people who seem to think everyone can understand whatever language they're spouting on the teamchannel, if it's important try and use english.
Uncreation, and to a lesser extent Transit. Uncreation for giving humans a huge edge. Transit for being very rushable by the aliens (starting out without any real base defense). While Transit is still an awesome map when played out fully, Uncreation is at least in my opinion never really any fun.
Blocking. I hate how people feel the need to stand in front of a door/the middle of a hallway while other people are fighting close by. Either join in, go heal up somewhere else, or if you're a dretch/basilisk hang from a wall or ceiling.
I also agree with most of b0rsuk's points, posted directly above me.
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its also quite annoying when some real noob votes to kick you, and when you tell him why, he says you tried to tk. when you really didn't
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I love the idiots that try to move the base in OT. Or the idiots that scrap the armory or all the turrets or the D comp at stage 3. Gotta love those noobs. The start of OT needs to be much more pronounced - people tend to waltz in and scrap everything. Tends to ruin the game.
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b0rsuk it seems you're annoyed by the whole game :o
Btw, you can turn off the popup windows in the options menu >_>
gee, I wonder how I can join a late game as dretch and get enough kills to evolve to adv marauder in ~10 mins. Wasn't on a newbie server either. Why go for the bsuit if theres always at least one light armoured human running around? Why evolve to basilisk (especially if you find that class useless) when you can save frags? why not go granger and frag farm while building since you know what you're doing?
I hear people whining about nades being small and quiet, I always hear them. Maybe its because I use headphones? or my 100 ping?
I noticed base moving is pretty much useless unless a skilled/experienced/team player joins and helps me build/defend, otherwise I get classed about building by people who probably have never built anything more than a turret in a default spot because THEY didn't cover me when I spammed teamchat telling them you need to move the base in that map.
I do agree about wasting up H build points on other unpowered structures, but killing telenodes and eggs gives you frags, so if a base is being moved you can attack right away. Not counting that whoring a spawn point is quite lame.
You probably wont even read this post anyways, but still comparing trem to ET? Come on!
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b0rsuk it seems you're annoyed by the whole game :o
Not exactly. B0rsuk simply has a tendency not to speak about things he likes. There's no point in mentioning parts of tremulous which are fine and shouldn't change - especially in this topic.
? Why evolve to basilisk (especially if you find that class useless)
My point exactly.
Perhaps because basilisk is the only thing available to you if you have 1 kill. You can wait for points to come to you. but you have to agree it's rather illogical that you shouldn't actively help. You'd think you should help your fellow aliens to defend against humans attacking your base, but (unless team has no competent grangers) this can be counterproductive. Not to mention this "can't evolve so close to enemy" silliness. I guess it's ok when it comes to spawning tyrants in human base, but is very annoying when you are defending overmind or something of importance. You find yourself completely unable to evolve, and granger is not the best combat class. Humans may have their annoyances with armory, but they can equip no matter how close aliens are.
About grenades - I know they damage friendly buildings, but do they deal team damage if FF is off ? I think they don't. But they should, as a balance measure. Teamkillers wouldn't find it useful anyway, because you have to pay $200 for each and (I think) lose further money for teamkills.
I do agree about wasting up H build points on other unpowered structures, but killing telenodes and eggs gives you frags, so if a base is being moved you can attack right away. Not counting that whoring a spawn point is quite lame.
Oh, so there suddenly _are_ cheap ways to play tremulous, it's not all tactics ? Deal with it :P. There are tactical reasons to spawn whore at remains of partially moved human base. This creates bottleneck at spawns, and what gives you more frags - destroying spawns, or spawn whoring - is questionable, it depends on situation.It also helps advance to higher stage. I already mentioned it forces marines to send patrol and dismantle things, and it locks human build points. They could be doing something else during that time, like defending new base from a dragoon.
I think comparing tremulous and ET is allright. Both are team-based games with goals to accomplish, and they more or less require teamwork. They use different solutions, and we certainly can discuss how each of these solutions/mechanics affects gameplay.
....and Enemy Territory: Quake Wars will have multiple deployables.
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Yaranaika: Transit isn't as rushable as it seems. If you look at the human base there's a balcony nearby. This balcony is well defendable against anything except tyrants. Moving the base there is quite easy if two people move and the rest stays around to defend. As the new base and the old base are adjacent the defenders can cover both, unlike with other relocations.
So far all the times my team tried this it worked.
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(not an annoyance)
Transit: you can build your reactor near starting position in such way that it's reachable only for dragoons and maybe marauders. It's in the big white hole in the ceiling, and requires jetpack to reach. It can be tricky if you don't think twice, because once reactor is down jetpack stops to work. So you have to stand in the right spot before a teammate removes reactor.
Great help for stalemating.
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(annoyance)
Why can you select helmet, light armor, battery pack and probably battlesuit with your bracket keys (default) ? It's not like you can activate these items anyway.
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my biggest annoyance are, in descending order:
-bad placed turrets (running from a basiliks/marauder with health at 15 and condition at almost 0, and there, there you see the healthpad, the turrets will take down the basi. But NOOOOO got blocked by a turret and died from a basi-swipe)
-Teammates blocking the way (dragoon pounces you, you survive, unload half of your pulse into it, the goon starts running, you go after him and... NOOOOO again a teammate starts running backwards instead of hunting the goon, blocked, goone gone^^)
-Teammates shooting a full lucifer in your back (pushes you away very far)
-builders that only build turrets (you try to move the base, delete one spawn, the armory etc. you try to rebuild at the new location, and realize there is no power left because someone spammed turrets all over the place)
-Teammates that don't listen (they wont listen to anything you suggest "don't run there, acid tube there", they run into it, again and again)
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Hi. I just started playing this game, coming from Nexuiz. While I like many aspects of it, there are a few things that really tick me off.
Mostly it's the balance. b0rsuk mentioned a lot of the points, so I'll just say that the aliens are unable to camp or to prevent the humans from camping, simply because they lack defensive structures and ranged attacks. I understand that this is not some oversight, that it is in fact an intentional aspect of the race, but really, what good are acid tubes, trappers, and hives, when most humans can destroy them so easily without getting their hands dirty? Meanwhile, we aliens cannot rush a human settlement with turrets until we have much stronger units than dretches.
The best example I have seen of the camping problem is the elevator room. Friday I played a game that lasted almost an hour and a half, and honestly I forgot how (or even if) it ended. ATCS is a nice small map but once a turret is built at the human entrance to the center arena, dretches have no power. I kind of like Uncreation aside from the horrible, horrible, bias, but that bias is present to some degree in every map.
Just today in Uncreation, we tried to hold on to our side of the curved hallway, but humans jet packed in and flew all the way to the ceiling. In a room that tall, there's just no counter. On the other hand, I also played a game today (on a much larger map) where we kept the pressure on them long enough to remove the necessity for base defenses. It's not all bad, but I just get the feeling sometimes that the developers of this game (or mod, or whatever you call it) don't play alien too often.
Other players have lamented that stage 2 is a joke for aliens. I agree, but having not played a single game as human so far, I can't compare it to an alternative.
That.. was actually the only major point I had. The menus are a bit annoying, especially when they pop up multiple times for no reason. There's also a spawn bug that allows you to pick a creature multiple times, and it'll transport you to a new egg when it becomes available after you're already on the move.
Oh and Chaos Weevil, I didn't see anything about changing your player name in that manual - not that I don't know how to by now, but I am curious as to how you add color to it. Is it the same as in Nexuiz, with ^# formatting?
Anyway, thanks for the awesome game; I'm sure it'll continue to consume many hours from my week.
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Time for some standard responses again ;).
If the humans can shoot your defenses from afar your defenses are badly placed.
You can prevent humans from camping, just sit a good end outside their base in a group.
You don't attack a base with dretches, you either wait a few minutes to get evo points or just lure the humans out.
The elevator room is indeed a recipe for boring games, but do consider it's a trap for humans too, they can't win very well from that position.
Aliens stage 2 is hard, but when aliens reach stage 3 the game is basically over for humans.
The popups can be turned off in the options menu, something like "don't show warnings".
In other words, it's not the game you're having problems with, you've just not seen it's full potential.
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Usually camping is OK and not a worry..and frequently leads to humans losing , but there are some areas where its nigh on impossible for aliens to get into - just played a game on Niveus and the humans did the right thing by moving base early..but then went into one of the rooms with just one entrance..ho hum.
fuckknowshowmany turrets just pointing at the door in a semi circle..some humies popped out and ran about for a bit before getting slaughtered, but seemingly most of the others just sat and occasionally popped their heads out to shoot. 3 sacrifical tyrants went in there and made no impact.. it was beyond boring.
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The trick there is to keep the humans locked in while you build a forward base just outside theirs. Keep a few tyrants handy to kill humans getting out and buld four swarms around their door. The swarms will give the hummies a very bad time. A booster near the door can be useful too to give poison and extra regen.
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If the humans can shoot your defenses from afar your defenses are badly placed.
Every time they shoot them down I try to rebuild them a little further away from the door, along the wall. It's hard to tell how far away they can be placed and still be effective. But if there are two or three guys flooding your base with pulse laser fire, even if they're not hitting anything of value, it's still an intimidating position.
You can prevent humans from camping, just sit a good end outside their base in a group.
If you're lucky enough to have a team that actively tries to avoid feeding them, perhaps. But there will always be a few teammates who try to attack anyway (and sometimes I'm one of them). The humans simply don't *need* to be on the offensive to be effective. In every single game, all they need to do is sit tight and wait for us to come to them, because they know the battle will go better for them on their terms than it will for us on ours.
You don't attack a base with dretches, you either wait a few minutes to get evo points or just lure the humans out.
Sometimes they are smart and can't be lured. I think it would be awesome if the aliens were given early alternatives to dretches that were designed specifically to assault bases.
The elevator room is indeed a recipe for boring games, but do consider it's a trap for humans too, they can't win very well from that position.
I suppose so. It's just a pretty sucky stalemate. Next time it happens, I'm abandoning the match.
Aliens stage 2 is hard, but when aliens reach stage 3 the game is basically over for humans.
It's just that instead of this nice gradual buildup of technological power, we have a game where aliens are pathetic until they make 70 or so kills, and suddenly they're gods. It happens too often that stage three humans defeat stage one aliens.
The popups can be turned off in the options menu, something like "don't show warnings".
That only turns off the popups that tell you why you can't build in a certain area, etc. I'm also talking about spawning and building dialogs - very often I die as a granger because I'm clicking cancel instead of fleeing for my life, simply because I forget that my primary attack is a self-inflicted popup.
In other words, it's not the game you're having problems with, you've just not seen it's full potential.
I'm sure I haven't, but that doesn't mean the game can't be improved. :)
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Every time they shoot them down I try to rebuild them a little further away from the door, along the wall. It's hard to tell how far away they can be placed and still be effective. But if there are two or three guys flooding your base with pulse laser fire, even if they're not hitting anything of value, it's still an intimidating position.
It is sometimes hard to position defenses, yes. And some maps don't make it easy to place adequate defenses near doors unfortunately.
If you're lucky enough to have a team that actively tries to avoid feeding them, perhaps. But there will always be a few teammates who try to attack anyway (and sometimes I'm one of them). The humans simply don't *need* to be on the offensive to be effective. In every single game, all they need to do is sit tight and wait for us to come to them, because they know the battle will go better for them on their terms than it will for us on ours.
Ah yes, that ancient nemesis of victory, the own team :D. Unfortunately public servers do indeed have an all too large share of players who don't understand tactics. That's life I guess.
Sometimes they are smart and can't be lured. I think it would be awesome if the aliens were given early alternatives to dretches that were designed specifically to assault bases.
That's what mauraders are for. If your team can manage to stay in safety for four minutes you can all get mauraders and make a big hopping fest in the human base. And remember that humans are very good at shooting their own buildings ;).
It's just that instead of this nice gradual buildup of technological power, we have a game where aliens are pathetic until they make 70 or so kills, and suddenly they're gods. It happens too often that stage three humans defeat stage one aliens.
Dragoons are pretty awesome though. Yes, aliens don't get as much new toys as humans at s2, but they start out stronger.
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Something that people seem to forgot is that credit is given to those that dont feed any people if the dont kill any one... So they dont go out from their base ? Wait a moment, you will have credit... 8)
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My experience is that those who make those comments are not very experienced. If they were experienced they'd know that Trem is a team game and that teamplay doesn't mean insulting the team. Plus such folks never seem to actually do something to coordinate the team. Just disregard them.
Well, obviously its only a small subset of people, but I've just played a game with someone who is well-known and registered on here (and is a moderately good player), but starting with all the barking, complaining and even some 'noobying'. Kinda annoying as he complained so much that I felt I had to go granger and that left only one person really making the kills. If he'd actually bothered to look at the scorecard he would've realised that we had (at least) two noobie unnameds on our team who would've probably been helped if they were given proper instructions rather than 'FFS BOOSTER' and whatnot...i.e. "build booster in base / front / whatever plz"
In reverse, I played a game with 'Elvis', as human (which I very rarely do) and had to go builder and he explicitly gave instructions - I only needed to know where to build and the fact that there was a gap in the defence, but it was appreciated anyway..and what was a difficult game went to a draw (and was enjoyable).
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I think when someone suicides, last player to damage him should get the kill. At least if the victim is poisoned/gassed.
I just had 3 or so rambo humans purposedly jump into 'wrong place' on arachnid to deny me gas kills. The fourth would-be-frag jumped from high ground, and again I got nothing.
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me playing because i don't know how to play these