Tremulous Forum
General => Feedback => Topic started by: xyblor on June 01, 2007, 09:23:04 am
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Here's an idea for a tweak to the shotgun reload system:
Make the shotgun magazine internal, so it holds the same number of shells, but you load shells into it one at a time. Loading a single shell would have to be much faster than the standard clip load (which is 2 seconds I think), but the total time to reload completely would be longer than that.
I'm NOT proposing to change the rate of fire, total ammo load, damage, spread, or anything else.
*edit*: I'm now in favor of a slight reduction to the total ammo load.
The player would get the benefit of a more flexible reload system and a quicker way to make his empty gun "shootable", at the cost of more overall reload time required. It would also mean no more wasting shells by discarding non-empty clips.
I like this idea because it would add more complexity to the game by letting shotgun-wielders decide how much time to spend reloading, which could lead to some interesting conundrums in the midst of combat.
It kind of irks me that, while all of the weapons are unique, the reloadable ones all use the same clip-based paradigm (and their reload times are all identical too). This would help rectify that situation.
PS you could extend this idea to the pulse rifle to give it an internal "capacitor" that you charge up by holding down the right mouse button.
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its only 150 creds if you want it to be able to pick how long it takes to reload why dont you give it a second barrel set up to snipe
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Becuase that doesn't make sense. The shotgun in Halo and Half Life 2 both use this and I think its a very good idea.
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i think its a retarded idea. if anything shotty should be nerfed
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How so? Shotty is balanced fine. Humans need an effective goon killer at S1 nerfing it will make s1 even more alien biased. The problem with the shotty is you waste ammo when you reload. I think this is a very very good idea ad makes alot more sense.
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you only waste ammo if you reload in the middle of a clip...just dont do it.
shotty is unbalanced because in its current state it is very effective in killing every type of alien and is the 3rd cheapest weapon...
idk why im wasting my breath on an idiot, but im just floored by your lack of understanding
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And I'm floored by your lack of tactical thinking. Say you only have three rounds left. I would reload because I might run into a goon. To wait till I run out of ammo and then reload is suicide. I suggested something like this earlier and got some support for it.
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Tactically its a big benefit as you can use all your ammo.
So therefore would need a lot of balance testing.
It would be offset by the longer total reload time, but not enough to not have an effect.
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Maybe if you have to shoot before you finish reloading you *Drop a round* and lose a little ammo?
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instead of metal pellets, lets put alien (or armoury, one of the two) seeking rockets in the shells. That ought to even things up a bit.
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instead of metal pellets, lets put alien (or armoury, one of the two) seeking rockets in the shells. That ought to even things up a bit.
That Sarcasm phails. Granted this would need a balance but I don't see it being a huge mind blowing change that will completely rock Trem.
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Maybe 5 less shells max?
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Meaning we only get 3 shells per load o.o Then we hand s1 completely to aliens you couldn't kill a goon if they weren't afk.
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Meaning we only get 3 shells per load o.o Then we hand s1 completely to aliens you couldn't kill a goon if they weren't afk.
I think he meant altogether :P
i.e. 27 down from 32 (8clip, 3 spare clips)
The hardest part of this would be the animations - you'd probably need some new ones and clever new handling of them, and very few people can animate very well.
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Meh.
Seems fine the way it is.
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And I'm floored by your lack of tactical thinking. Say you only have three rounds left. I would reload because I might run into a goon. To wait till I run out of ammo and then reload is suicide. I suggested something like this earlier and got some support for it.
either reload your ammo, or risk it. stop whining and go die please.
i like to risk it, whats the fun of fighting with shotty if you dont reload in the middle of the fight anyways? :)
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Thanks for the comments.
@ ceaser: Yay, now I just have to convince a programmer to share your enthusiasm. I wonder if this change could be implemented as a server-side revision, rather than require new client downloads for everyone.
@ benmachine: I don't think the animation is much of an issue - it wouldn't affect the gameplay, and besides, the existing reload animation (player lowers gun) is pretty lame and non-descript, but that doesn't seem to bother people much. But yeah, a suitable animation for shell loading would be a nice touch.
@ David: I agree that lessening the total ammo load a bit would compensate for the elimination of shell loss due to clip reloading.
@ Noob Plox: I'm not at all trying to make the shotgun more powerful, just more complicated and skillful, and I agree that coping with reloading during hectic fights is fun; I think this proposed change would make the reloading issue even MORE of a pain by taking up more of your time, and add another subtle parameter to combat: having to spend more time and effort "feeding" your gun. Maybe there are good reasons why the idea is "retarded". If so, it would be useful to know what they are.
Addendum: Now that I think of it, using right mouse button to reload this proposed shotgun would probably be necessary, since holding down R for over two seconds would be really annoying - you wouldn't be able to strafe right during that time.
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And I'm floored by your lack of tactical thinking. Say you only have three rounds left. I would reload because I might run into a goon. To wait till I run out of ammo and then reload is suicide. I suggested something like this earlier and got some support for it.
That pretty much is the point. You have to decide when you think it is best to reload. If anything this idea would remove a tactical element rather than create one.
However I'm not completely against it - I just agree it would require some balance testing first.
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@ benmachine: I don't think the animation is much of an issue - it wouldn't affect the gameplay, and besides, the existing reload animation (player points gun upward) is pretty lame and non-descript, but that doesn't seem to bother people much. But yeah, a suitable animation for shell loading would be a nice touch.
I'm talking about what other people see (which is actually what you see, but anyway). We would need both a shorter animation for only one shell load, and some way of making it extensible for each new shell that we decided to load. Even if it would be a simple animation, it would be another animation, and I don't know where that would come from.
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Xyblor, you mean we'll have to hold it down to continue reloading shells? Why not just tap it once and click to toss a shell and stop reloading. What about tapping it as many times as you want shells?
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Did anyone think a bit farther than the nose needed to sniff a fish?
This reload system is an integral part of the game.
_ALL_ weapons have this setback when you foolishly decide to reload at the wrong time.
And why the F* do those shitty comparisons to half-arsed FPS crop up everytime someone decides to "tweak" any weapon?
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Maybe it takes a stamina bar if you shoot during reload?
You still have to choose when you reload. Your in a fire fight and run out you can either reload and shoot every time you get a round in the chamber or wait a second to load 2 or 3 rounds. With the over all longer reload time it's also going to make the human find a good hiding spot or cover to reload his gun to full.
Caveman those "Have Arsed FPSes" are considered some of the best Shooters of all time. They must have done something right. This is not about those games however this is about a suggestion to make the shotgun more realistic and fun to use.
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Caveman those "Have Arsed FPSes" are considered some of the best Shooters of all time. They must have done something right. This is not about those games however this is about a suggestion to make the shotgun more realistic and fun to use.
+1 I have to admit Half-Life rocks balls, and Halo isn't bad either.
I'm not so sure about this...
Personally i'd like the Shottie to have a lesser spread and higher damage and somewhat lower shooting speed. Not much, just a mariginal change to change the feel of it.
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gravity gun lol
go half life!
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I r want purtal guhn.
Srsly.
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Alrighty. Ahem:
The gravity gun is overrated. Really, Tribes 1's ELF guns were more useful. It's less a weapon and more of a toy, methinks.
The Halo series, while above-average, is also overrated.
Half-life 1 kicked ass, though Barney was unforgivably dumb.
HL2 was also a fun playthrough, though it seemed I never had enough grenades. I was a bit surprised that it didn't bring my compy anywhere near to its knees, also.
No, Ceaser, things that are popular should not automatically be considered "well-done." Look at Counter-Strike, N*Sync, and countless other examples.
The manual loading idea I kind of like; sounds like a win-win for both teams to me. Humies don't have to waste their rather pitiful stock of shells and goons get overall easier targets, so shotgun ambushes/rushes won't be endgame.
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Your right about popular stuff not always being good however I think I have a little proof that Half Life and Halo were very good shooters.
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You can prove an opinion?
That's hawt.
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35 game of the year awards can O.o
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35 opinions do not a fact make. You're basically saying "Hey, everybody else likes it." Stop making me start to agree with pl0x on something.
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Alright
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well, actually if the population of people are knowledgeable and trustworthy regarding the subject in question, and this is a subject in which acceptable claims are made and generally agreed on, then yes you can accept the opinions of groups of people.
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Hey! You! Miscreants!
Don't you dare touching my (http://satgnu.net/tremmedia/tremicons/human/weapons/shotgun.png)!
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this is about a suggestion to make the shotgun more realistic and fun to use.
YOU LOSE. GOODDAY SIRRAH.
realistic != good
must i remind you there are JETPACKS, BATTLESUITS, RADIATION GUNS, AND ALIENS FFS.
If trem was 100% realistic, you could only die once, and you couldnt ever come back.
so please lay off the crack and just go back to playing trem, instead of trying to fuck with it.
or better yet, quit and become a fulltime crack addict who steals copper for a living.
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or better yet, quit and become a fulltime crack addict who steals copper for a living.
Hey, at least he would never be bored, then, AMIRITE?
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YOUISRITE
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OMG I MUS BE HAXXING AND FORGOT DEN LEWL
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blah blah flame blah
...what's wrong with realism in futuristic games?
Plus, we've got a rifle, too. And it's undeniable that both the rifle and the shotgun are modelled after today's standards, thus meaning that an idea to make the shotgun more 'realistic and fun to use' are validified...
But I guess you were just flaming, as usual, plox.
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Since there are no reload animations in Trem...
(http://www.humorek.com/obrazki/2004-11-28-niedziela/noob.jpg)
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Yes there are - look at a human reloading.
Goodness me, is that an animation?
Yes, yes it is.
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NO YOU LOSE SIR!
With your overwhelmingly stupid and useless flaming. I'm a Crack addict because I'm supporting a change to the shotgun? Are you retarded or feel the need to make your dick feel big by yelling for no reason? Hmm sounds like little man's syndrome to me. So realism isn't always better. I know that. This however is just a suggestion.
Why do you need to flame this topic? What have I done to you before this? There are topics that are twenty times stupider then this so why don't you go flame them? Why do you have to come over acting all big and bad just becuase someone thinks there needs to be a change? Its not even a RETARDED change like others up right now. Bsuit with a radar? Go flame that. Ckits that heal go flame that!
This forum is called FEEDBACK. You suggest changes you think would be a good idea. I have that right as a Tremulous player and a member of this forum. I've not broken any rules by supporting this. Go fucking get a life and lay off the steroids they don't make anything bigger accept your ego.
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I'm a Crack addict because I'm supporting a change to the shotgun?
No,you my dear Watson are retarded, because you support a suggestion that is one sided and does not even consider anything, beside giving the humans an advantage.
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no u.
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no u.
+1
One sided? There have been plenty of suggestions here for balance that I like!
Slower over all reload.
Less Ammo over all.
May take stamina to shoot during reload.
If you had another suggestion please tell me.
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If you flamers acutally take the time to read this thread as a whole, please tell me.
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I read it all, but I'm a bit dumber for it. Does that count?
Maybe it does, because "I'm a bit dumber" sounds pretty dumb.
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Since some people still don't understand that I'm not advocating a more powerful shotgun, I would like to reiterate that I did not specify exactly how long it should take to reload one shell (let's call that "X"). This value could have a drastic impact on the overall usefulness of the shotgun.
What if it took 1 second to load a shell (X=1s)? Then it would take 8 seconds to fully reload. That's four times longer than the current clip-based shotgun. This would be a serious handicap in any fight that required more than 8 shells. Once your magazine is empty, your rate of fire would be effectively halved (1 second to load a shell + the standard 1 second to pump it into the chamber), or else you could try to dance around for EIGHT SECONDS while you fully reload. I don't think anyone could say for X=1 second, the shotgun would be more powerful. Yes, it will eliminate shell loss due to premature reloading, but we've already established that a reduction in the total ammo load could compensate for that.
To those of you who say "if it ain't broke, don't fix it", I understand where you're coming from, but in my view having four totally different weapons using the exact same clip-based reload method is a shortcoming, and is missing out on an opportunity to add more richness and flavor to the game. Realism has nothing to do with my argument; nor do other video games.
So I suggest that everyone propose a value for X. For the current shotgun, X=0.25 seconds. I agree that with one shot reloading, it has to be higher than that to balance the advantage given. Probably X=1 second is too high. I imagine something around X=0.5 seconds would be about right, but it would have to be play-tested to find the right value.
@ Ceaser: the stamina loss idea is neat, but I don't think think you should be able to shoot at all while loading shells. There has to be a moment of defenselessness.
@ Plague Bringer: I think that the reload button should work just like the shoot button: if the gun is "loadable" and the button is pressed (or already depressed), you load a shell. I suppose that right after a shot, you would have to pump a shell into the chamber, and during that second, the gun would not be loadable. If you empty your gun you would automatically load and pump a shell immediately without having to press anything (if you have ammo left that is). I still think right-click reloading is a must.
Regarding animation: the current reload animation consists of lowering the gun, holding it stationary, then raising it again. We could just edit that animation, eliminating enough of the stationary portion so that the whole animation only lasts as long as X. It doesn't really need to be "extensible" - just repeat the whole thing for each shell reload. We'd also need another animation for when you fire your last shot that lasts X + 1 second (load + pump), otherwise the gun would be raised before it's shootable.
It's not a perfect solution, but good enough for play-testing I think. Depending on the format, I might be able to edit the animation myself.
Again, I look forward to all of the thoughtful, open-minded and on-topic comments which are forthcoming. The high degree of respect and literacy displayed by the community makes me proud to be a part of it. Thank you.
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I would say X=0.75
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I'm a Crack addict because I'm supporting a change to the shotgun?
No,you my dear Watson are retarded, because you support a suggestion that is one sided and does not even consider anything, beside giving the humans an advantage.
... You're running a beat down on someone who was just flamed by an idiot. Being able to load a shotty shell by shell is an interesting idea; I don't know if it'd be practical due to other 1.2 balance changes but it's interesting nonetheless.
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blah blah flame blah
...what's wrong with realism in futuristic games?
Plus, we've got a rifle, too. And it's undeniable that both the rifle and the shotgun are modelled after today's standards, thus meaning that an idea to make the shotgun more 'realistic and fun to use' are validified...
But I guess you were just flaming, as usual, plox.
real life is always going to be the inspiration for futuristic games considering we live in real life and its easy to do...uhm dur.
so, if i were to quote your post like you quoted mine, it would look like "blah blah suck blah"
Since there are no reload animations in Trem...
(http://www.humorek.com/obrazki/2004-11-28-niedziela/noob.jpg)
it just hurts to watch you fall on your fase every time you attempt to flame.
NO YOU LOSE SIR!
With your overwhelmingly stupid and useless flaming. I'm a Crack addict because I'm supporting a change to the shotgun? Are you retarded or feel the need to make your dick feel big by yelling for no reason? Hmm sounds like little man's syndrome to me. So realism isn't always better. I know that. This however is just a suggestion.
Why do you need to flame this topic? What have I done to you before this? There are topics that are twenty times stupider then this so why don't you go flame them? Why do you have to come over acting all big and bad just becuase someone thinks there needs to be a change? Its not even a RETARDED change like others up right now. Bsuit with a radar? Go flame that. Ckits that heal go flame that!
This forum is called FEEDBACK. You suggest changes you think would be a good idea. I have that right as a Tremulous player and a member of this forum. I've not broken any rules by supporting this. Go fucking get a life and lay off the steroids they don't make anything bigger accept your ego.
Make no mistake, even though it might excite you a little to say you make my dick get big, you do not turn me on. please dont talk to me about your fantasies about me.
I feel the need to flame this topic because it actually has people stupid enough to support it, unlike the other topics.
Im not acting big and bad, im just trying to stop idiots like you from supporting idiotic ideas like this.
Uhm...steroids make muscles grow easier...and thats a rather retarded flame because ill be the first to admit that at 130 lbs and 5'11'' im rather skinny, and dont intend to build much muscle at all.
My ego is big because of people like you, if there werent so many dumbasses around, my ego would not be the size it is.
no u.
dont use my frase to support something as retarded as this fourth-baked idea.
If you flamers acutally take the time to read this thread as a whole, please tell me.
if you take your head out of your ass long enough to realize what people around you are doing, please tell me.
I read it all, but I'm a bit dumber for it. Does that count?
Maybe it does, because "I'm a bit dumber" sounds pretty dumb.
ahahaha couldnt have said it better myself.
What if it took 1 second to load a shell (X=1s)? Then it would take 8 seconds to fully reload.
To those of you who say "if it ain't broke, don't fix it", I understand where you're coming from, but in my view having four totally different weapons using the exact same clip-based reload method is a shortcoming, and is missing out on an opportunity to add more richness and flavor to the game. Realism has nothing to do with my argument; nor do other video games.
@ Ceaser: the stamina loss idea is neat, but I don't think think you should be able to shoot at all while loading shells. There has to be a moment of defenselessness.
@ Plague Bringer: I think that the reload button should work just like the shoot button: if the gun is "loadable" and the button is pressed (or already depressed), you load a shell. I suppose that right after a shot, you would have to pump a shell into the chamber, and during that second, the gun would not be loadable. If you empty your gun you would automatically load and pump a shell immediately without having to press anything (if you have ammo left that is). I still think right-click reloading is a must.
Regarding animation: the current reload animation consists of lowering the gun, holding it stationary, then raising it again. We could just edit that animation, eliminating enough of the stationary portion so that the whole animation only lasts as long as X. It doesn't really need to be "extensible" - just repeat the whole thing for each shell reload. We'd also need another animation for when you fire your last shot that lasts X + 1 second (load + pump), otherwise the gun would be raised before it's shootable.
It's not a perfect solution, but good enough for play-testing I think. Depending on the format, I might be able to edit the animation myself.
Again, I look forward to all of the thoughtful, open-minded and on-topic comments which are forthcoming. The high degree of respect and literacy displayed by the community makes me proud to be a part of it. Thank you.
so, you want to add a fancy animation to shotgun, and make the reload last 8 seconds. and yet, you dont want anyone to be able to shoot while reloading for 8 seconds. youre effectively wasting graphical effort and just nerfing the reload time.
yes, a lot of weapons all have the same reload. and guess what "it aint broke, so dont fix it."
I agree that it isnt a perfect fix, but it is not the least bit decent.
nice try to discorage me from responding there at the end, but it didnt work :wink:
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so, you want to add a fancy animation to shotgun, and make the reload last 8 seconds. and yet, you dont want anyone to be able to shoot while reloading for 8 seconds. youre effectively wasting graphical effort and just nerfing the reload time.
yes, a lot of weapons all have the same reload. and guess what "it aint broke, so dont fix it."
I agree that it isnt a perfect fix, but it is not the least bit decent.
nice try to discorage me from responding there at the end, but it didnt work :wink:
- I explicitly stated that an 8 second reload (X=1 second) would be too long. I only suggested that value for the sake of argument, to show that the "internal magazine" shotgun could be more OR less powerful than the clip-based shotgun, depending on the value of X. I'm saying that the with the right value for X, it will be just as good as the old shotgun, just with a twist. So I'll ask again: how long do you think it should take to load a single shotgun shell in order to maintain the balance of the weapon?
- I suggested a "quick and easy" way to create functional animations, and volunteered to do it myself.
- When I said "it's not a perfect fix" I was referring to the animation solution I had proposed.
- I would like to debate the potential merits and drawbacks of the feature I proposed. Point out the faults of the proposition in detail to its supporters. What's wrong with it? (I don't find "it's retarded" and "change is bad" to be persuasive arguments.)
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@OP & interested readers:
Well, now that pl0x and caveman made me actually think about it, I realize that this is a bad idea (for Tremulous). Here's why. The server only tells the client the absolute minimum it must about changes in the game world. With your idea of having the server have to tell me that I just ran thru eight reload animations, it doesn't matter if you make the individual shell reload very short. You've added to the complexity of what the virtual machine has to tell the client to render. :-?
(It's just like when you get "stuck" to a wall you are just rubbing up against: it take valuable milliseconds for the server to gather up all of the updates and parcel them back out again, and meanwhile you're dead. Tremulous plays fast and smooth just like it is now.) :D
While I agree that it is an interesting idea from a tactical standpoint, I don't think it's necessary, and I don't think anyone with a slow framerate is going to really get that caught up in using it. Which is pretty much what the people you think are flaming you said, I just turned down the heat to a low simmer. :P
Yelling "idiot" at people is a well-respected TremForum tradition, endorsed by Timbo himself. Get used to it or hie thee to the curb. :wink:
Check out a few of the Good Ideas I've had.... :roll:
You sound like a cool person with thoughtful suggestions who is even willing to make them happen. Don't worry about n00b pl0x flaming you. He's got a low tolerance for other people's shortsightedness sometimes, but after giving me lots of crap early on, he's now my forum pal. Sometimes the people who challenge you the most are the people worth interacting with... 8)
I could be wrong, but read this and see what you think:
Networking (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quake_III_Arena)
Quake 3 uses a "snapshot" system to relay information about game "frames" to the client over UDP. The server updates object interaction at a fixed rate independent of the rate clients update the server with their actions, and then attempts to send the state of all objects at that point in time (the current frame) to each client. The server attempts to omit as much information as possible about each frame, relaying only differences from the last frame the client confirmed as received. Almost all data packets are compressed using Huffman coding using static pre-calculated frequency data, to reduce bandwidth even further.
Italics mine.
I admit I don't know that much about it, but if you look up Huffman coding and virtual machine you'll see that adding multiple repeated animations is not going to make Tremulous play any smoother. Just my wiki-informed opinion. Feel free to enlighten me. :)
why are you people so stupid?
...what's wrong with realism in futuristic games?
Plus, we've got a rifle, too. And it's undeniable that both the rifle and the shotgun are modelled after today's standards, thus meaning that an idea to make the shotgun more 'realistic and fun to use' are validified...
But I guess you were just trying to talk sense to the thick-headed, as usual, plox.
[flame]
Idiot! :evil: pl0x is absolutely right about realism. The machine gun and shotgun are holdovers from Trem's Q3a genesis. They are in no way "modelled after today's standards". They are inherited from Quake, and before Quake, from Doom. They don't even look like "real" guns! How much more obvious could their provenance be? Think before you type! The Tremulous shotgun is so NOT the Remington 870 Wingmaster that your dad shoots geese with.
The machine gun is the default Quake3 weapon, and the shotty is a valuable tool that's well-respected in the shooter world as the alternative to the assault rifle. Trem has very little backstory (http://tremulous.net/about/), but it is about alien bugs and space marines who all look alike. Realistic? I hate to be flamey, but would you people stfu about the friggin' realism already?!? Worthless argument. Completely invalid. Grade: PHAIL!
"Yes, Quake should be more like life (or more life-like)." Go play a game about washing the dishes. When I hear people say that scifi shooter games should be more realistic it makes me think you don't get Doom/Quake/Tremulous at all. Umm... space marines? Blasters? Invading aliens? Hello? There are plenty of SWAT/Infiltration/WWII/Combat/youpickthescenario games to play for realism. Might I recommend Enemy Territory? By the way, the word you're searching for is "validated". Your argument, however, is not. Jackass... :roll:
[/flame]
If anyone wants an informed opinion about the shotgun, ask _Equilibrium_. He can slay with that sucker. Without any nerfed/buffed/reanimated single-shot reload modification.
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player1: in comparison with the standard strains of aiming, firing, and damaging things, a message every 0.75 seconds to say "we're still reloading" will be barely noticeable in bandwidth terms - and that's all that the client needs to trigger the animation.
On the note of realism: imagine stamina allowed people to jump only once, or to jump hundreds of times in a row. People would whine because either scenario is absurd - real people can't do that. Believing in aliens, pulse rifles, jetpacks etc. is actually on the whole not that hard - who knows what will happen in the future - but humans are always humans and shotguns are always shotguns.
xyblor, personally I think doing a speeded up reload animation eight times to refill your weapon is not a good idea. Just think how it will look - like some kind of bizarre dance.
n00b pl0x - two points for you:
1. Nobody in this thread is going to suddenly say "oh wait, n00b pl0x is right, I AM an idiot" so your time here is wasted.
2. no u is not now and has never been "yours".
edit - hay guys I did some coding. The reloading animation seems to shorten automatically, which is nice, but just setting shotgun max clips to 24 and reloads to only refill one shell was confounded by the fact that maxClips appears to be capped at 8. Not hard to workaround, but we've only got a one-digit display there anyway.
further edit - it looks like only 4 bits are allocated to maxclips, so it can go as high as 15 but no higher. The 1 kind of overflows a bit, looks very odd.
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If all this is a new reload animation or something along those lines why the need for flames? This could be the NERF you want coupled with some eye candy. We all like eye candy don't we?
This could go good with a new much more deep booming sound for a shotgun shot. BOOM chic chit OOM chic chit. Who doesn't like that? Also I don't believe the Trem rifle can even be considered a rifle. Its a Sub-machine gun.
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edit - hay guys I did some coding. The reloading animation seems to shorten automatically, which is nice, but just setting shotgun max clips to 24 and reloads to only refill one shell was confounded by the fact that maxClips appears to be capped at 8. Not hard to workaround, but we've only got a one-digit display there anyway.
further edit - it looks like only 4 bits are allocated to maxclips, so it can go as high as 15 but no higher. The 1 kind of overflows a bit, looks very odd.
What about when using shotgun, you switch the display locations for "clips left" and "shots in clip"?
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On the note of realism: imagine stamina allowed people to jump only once, or to jump hundreds of times in a row. People would whine because either scenario is absurd - real people can't do that. Believing in aliens, pulse rifles, jetpacks etc. is actually on the whole not that hard - who knows what will happen in the future - but humans are always humans and shotguns are always shotguns.
xyblor, personally I think doing a speeded up reload animation eight times to refill your weapon is not a good idea. Just think how it will look - like some kind of bizarre dance.
n00b pl0x - two points for you:
1. Nobody in this thread is going to suddenly say "oh wait, n00b pl0x is right, I AM an idiot" so your time here is wasted.
2. no u is not now and has never been "yours".
edit - hay guys I did some coding. The reloading animation seems to shorten automatically, which is nice, but just setting shotgun max clips to 24 and reloads to only refill one shell was confounded by the fact that maxClips appears to be capped at 8. Not hard to workaround, but we've only got a one-digit display there anyway.
further edit - it looks like only 4 bits are allocated to maxclips, so it can go as high as 15 but no higher. The 1 kind of overflows a bit, looks very odd.
On the note of realism: imagine a small, brown alien that can jump millions of times in a row without getting tired and morph into a wide range of aliens.
Oh wait, youre right. That IS extremely easy to believe. :roll:
1. if you keep saying things like the above comment, if they have any sense theyll come around :wink:
2. Too bad. I stole it, and you aint getting it back.
3. Notice how almost none of the usual forum browsers have said anything in response to this post? its because they are on my side but refuse to show that they agree with me because im n00b pl0x :D
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3. Notice how almost none of the usual forum browsers have said anything in response to this post? its because they are on my side but refuse to show that they agree with me because im n00b pl0x :D
Yeaaah right. I'm here to state that I'm not on your side. Shame on you for your attempt.
I'm fine with this idea. Tremulous was not designed to conform to the reality. But it still have some bits and pieces of of reality and imagination jumbled up together. Personally, I'm curious to see how this plays out. It is a fact that the shotgun is not very ammo-efficient. But it's still very powerful today, so I don't care if nobody implements this idea.
Just because it conforms to reality, does not mean it is a bad idea.
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Yeaaah right. I'm here to state that I'm not on your side. Shame on you for your attempt.
ahahahaha you thought i was talking about you? i forgot you even came on these forums still lmao.
but still, its nice to see someone still remembers you ( well one person that is :roll: ) [ just to make sure i didnt lose you, that person is you :) ]
and yes, i agree that some realistic ideas can be nice, but when youre dealing with boneheads, its safer to make a blanket statement than say "well usually realistic ideas are bad but..."
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3. Notice how almost none of the usual forum browsers have said anything in response to this post? its because they are on my side but refuse to show that they agree with me because im n00b pl0x :D
Yeaaah right. I'm here to state that I'm not on your side. Shame on you for your attempt.
I'm fine with this idea. Tremulous was not designed to conform to the reality. But it still have some bits and pieces of of reality and imagination jumbled up together. Personally, I'm curious to see how this plays out. It is a fact that the shotgun is not very ammo-efficient. But it's still very powerful today, so I don't care if nobody implements this idea.
Just because it conforms to reality, does not mean it is a bad idea.
not agreeing with pl0x
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I dedicate this game + cgame mod to n00b pl0x:
http://www.bandstand.org.uk/~benm/trem/wwwBase/shotgun/vms-shotgun0001.pk3
Make a shotgun/ directory next to base/, drop that in, start up a client, select it from the mods menu, /devmap atcs
k?
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not agreeing with pl0x
Not agreeing with pl0x, eh?
That's a paddlin'.
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3. Notice how almost none of the usual forum browsers have said anything in response to this post? its because they are on my side but refuse to show that they agree with me because im n00b pl0x :D
I agree with you.
well, actually i don't, but i am a clone, so, i kinda have to.
_________________
Resistance is futile.
Pledge allegiance to the pl0x.
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not agreeing with pl0x
no, wasnt referring to you either ah-kuh-na-tu
I dedicate this game + cgame mod to n00b pl0x:
http://www.bandstand.org.uk/~benm/trem/wwwBase/shotgun/vms-shotgun0001.pk3
Make a shotgun/ directory next to base/, drop that in, start up a client, select it from the mods menu, /devmap atcs
k?
*paddlles*
ok, so a few worthless Tremulous 1.1.0 Server 's and your worthless server will use that...you really shouldnt have outdone yourself like that, benmachine. whatever shall i do? hahaha
im just another random tard bent on breaking trem with half-baked suggestions, but ill agree with pl0x because im named after him.
i now reject this clone. he is by no means to be affiliated with me.
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Hi noob plox, I believe I am a regular poster and I logged on today for no other reason than to disagree with you.
Now then, Noob Plox, I disagree with you and wish you would stop being such a self-centered prick. And while your at it, could you also stop being a forum troll?
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Hi noob plox, I believe I am a regular poster and I logged on today for no other reason than to disagree with you.
Now then, Noob Plox, I disagree with you and wish you would stop being such a self-centered prick. And while your at it, could you also stop being a forum troll?
1. if you only logged on to disagree :roll:
2. no
3. no
4. kk
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I would have just read the boards and not bothered logging in if there was nothing worth my posting about.
However, seeing as this topic was the on of the first ones I read...
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I dedicate this game + cgame mod to n00b pl0x:
http://www.bandstand.org.uk/~benm/trem/wwwBase/shotgun/vms-shotgun0001.pk3
Make a shotgun/ directory next to base/, drop that in, start up a client, select it from the mods menu, /devmap atcs
k?
Wow, I'm so impressed that an actual mod came out of this! Unfortunately, I can't figure out how to get it to work. Following your instructions, when I select the "shotgun" mod, I get a fatal error in the console saying "recursive error after: menu file not found: ui/menus.txt, using default".
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Wow, I'm so impressed that an actual mod came out of this! Unfortunately, I can't figure out how to get it to work. Following your instructions, when I select the "shotgun" mod, I get a fatal error in the console saying "recursive error after: menu file not found: ui/menus.txt, using default".
Heh, oops. Give us a sec.
http://www.bandstand.org.uk/~benm/trem/wwwBase/shotgun/vms-shotgun0002.pk3
Try that one, same process.
Press R to load one shell, hold right mouse to load until full.
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im just another random tard bent on breaking trem with half-baked suggestions, but ill agree with pl0x because im named after him.
i now reject this clone. he is by no means to be affiliated with me.
fine then, be that way
your loss not mine
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not agreeing with pl0x
no, wasnt referring to you either ah-kuh-na-tu
if you had any brain, youd realize i'm a regular user, i'm on almost every day. however, i'm not a tard and don't post in threads that i have no clue about/don't concern me/spam
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http://www.bandstand.org.uk/~benm/trem/wwwBase/shotgun/vms-shotgun0002.pk3
Try that one, same process.
Press R to load one shell, hold right mouse to load until full.
The shotgun mod works now, and omigosh, everything works as we discussed. The animation is fine. The time it takes to load one shell (X) is 0.75 seconds, and the total ammo load is 32. I hope we can get a server to try this out soon. I already think X has to come down, but I'm curious to hear how other people feel about that.
I noticed that when your shotgun is FULL (edit), pressing R goes through the reload motions, but obviously does nothing. Is that intended? Pressing mouse2 when empty does nothing.
Also, if you're a real perfectionist you might want to add a line to the tutorial text for the shotgun, saying "press mouse2 to load a shotgun shell".
Thanks benmachine!
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http://www.bandstand.org.uk/~benm/trem/wwwBase/shotgun/vms-shotgun0002.pk3
Try that one, same process.
Press R to load one shell, hold right mouse to load until full.
The shotgun mod works now, and omigosh, everything works as we discussed. The animation is fine. The time it takes to load one shell (X) is 0.75 seconds, and the total ammo load is 32. I hope we can get a server to try this out soon. I already think X has to come down, but I'm curious to hear how other people feel about that.
I noticed that when your shotgun is empty, pressing R goes through the reload motions, but obviously does nothing. Is that intended? Pressing mouse2 when empty does nothing.
Also, if you're a real perfectionist you might want to add a line to the tutorial text for the shotgun, saying "press mouse2 to load a shotgun shell".
Thanks benmachine!
The r thing - as it is, r always triggers the reload animation. Usually it wastes a clip, but since I was fiddling about so much with the shotgun code I thought I may as well special-case that to prevent it. I'm sure I could work something out but it didn't strike me as important to the overall feel.
As for the server-running: it's a pretty trivial change to force a download for. If you run a server but don't force the download then, iirc, it works in number terms but the animations are very very broken.
I set the interval to 600 actually, iirc, but I think that doesn't include the time to drop the weapon and raise it again - just the time it's held down.
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I actually think this is a very good idea. But I think it needs a extra 'punch'.
Shotgun is a decent weapon @ S1/S2, however, at S3, it sucks badly.
Weapons such as Painsaw, Lasgun, Chaingun - they are useful throughout the game. They always have their uses. Shotgun, however, becomes somewhat crap at S3. It just cannot deliver the necessary firepower.
I think some kind of automatic shotgun @ S3 should be necessary.
Same firepower, just much faster fire rate.
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Nonsense. The shotgun is a damned excellent tool all throughout a game. If you can properly blitz an alien when they're not ready for it (with perhaps an MD or Lasgunner backing you up), they're good as dead. The shotgun hurts a bit more than you're giving it credit for, and just about the only thing it's not good at is base-killing. Really, the only thing stopping you from taking down anything less than a tyrant without backup in most cases is how well you dodge.
As for the "automatic shotgun" thing, that'd be exactly the role that the chaingun is already there to fill; a close-quarters, fully automatic meat grinder.
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The shotgun hurts a bit more than you're giving it credit for, and just about the only thing it's not good at is base-killing.
actually it even does that with some teammates in some conditions, the only thing shotgun can't do is take on a full hp tyrant without help.
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Unless you get the element of surprise, no human can kill a full hp tyrant solo, assuming equal skill levels.
However, a shotgun can type-kill a Tyrant with a single clip, a feat only matchable by pulse-rifles.
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why dont shotguns look like shotguns???!!!!!!!
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They're futuristic. They don't have to look like shotguns. The should, however, act like shotguns.
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Futuristic weapon FTW Shotgun should have a sniper scope. (JK)
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heh heh, shotgun needs strength? are you kidding me? here's an example: i remember a clan match where me and dracone took down 3-4 tyrants with just our two shotguns and a rifle, allowing us to make a comeback. it was fing hilarious (we went through multiple lives of course, but to kill them, we used only shotguns and rifles)
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i remember i killed a tyrant once with a blaster and i only went through 100 lives
hehe it was hilarious
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Damn your good.
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I know some hate comparisons, as expressed explicitly earlier in this thread, to other tried-and-true FPS games, but I must say that I appreciate the Halo system of shottie reloads; I think that right-clicking should initiate a reload sequence, and keep reloading (one shell at a time) until one of the following happens: you left click, and fire; you reach the maximum allotted number of shells for the clip; or you take damage. In Halo 2, you can stop the reload by firing with an instantaneous reaction time, which is convenient but slightly unrealistic. The round you're loading at the time simply doesn't get loaded, but to make it a bit more challenging (not much) I think you should lose the round (dropping it, but no new animation would be used, and it would halt the gun-dip reload animation and go straight to the firing animations). With regard to timing, I think 625ms per shell would be good. I would say an even 500, but then it would be too damned easy, and would throw off the s1 balance a great deal. Great work, benmachine, and simply ignore the less savory characters on this thread, as always.