Tremulous Forum

Media => Mapping Center => Topic started by: Kaleo on July 04, 2007, 07:35:34 am

Title: Old Mapping Competition
Post by: Kaleo on July 04, 2007, 07:35:34 am
THREAD IS NO LONGER THE OFFICIAL THREAD... PLEASE WAIT FOR THE NEW COMPETITION!
Title: Old Mapping Competition
Post by: Fluxflashor on July 04, 2007, 10:04:56 am
Sounds good... never been able to finish any of my maps... but I will have to submit something into this contest.
Title: Old Mapping Competition
Post by: ShadowNinjaDudeMan on July 04, 2007, 11:37:54 am
Cool

TheChasm probsbly wont be reeady by then, but I'll try.
Title: Old Mapping Competition
Post by: Kaleo on July 04, 2007, 12:15:15 pm
I would reccomend starting a new map for this contest, because it may not have the required texture sets and also it would be an unfair advantage...
Title: Old Mapping Competition
Post by: ShadowNinjaDudeMan on July 04, 2007, 12:54:57 pm
Quote from: "Kaleo"
I would reccomend starting a new map for this contest, because it may not have the required texture sets and also it would be an unfair advantage...

I dont have any textures anyway, no textures in the map.

Unfair Advantage?
Title: Old Mapping Competition
Post by: Lava Croft on July 04, 2007, 02:07:40 pm
Sokolov's Space uses Sockter's tech1 texture set. You can download it here (http://satgnu.net/lava_croft/files/mapping/tp-tech10tga.zip).

http://satgnu.net/lava_croft/files/mapping/ has some more stuff too.
Title: Old Mapping Competition
Post by: Plague Bringer on July 04, 2007, 04:00:00 pm
Quote
Other factors may sway my favor


You take bribes? xD

Is an Env Box manditory?

Is the .map to be handed in with the .bsp?
Title: Old Mapping Competition
Post by: AKAnotu on July 05, 2007, 01:05:45 am
yeah, i haven't worked on gulag in a while, should probably get to that
Title: Old Mapping Competition
Post by: Kaleo on July 05, 2007, 02:11:25 am
Quote from: "Lava Croft"
Sokolov's Space uses Sockter's tech1 texture set. You can download it here (http://satgnu.net/lava_croft/files/mapping/tp-tech10tga.zip).

http://satgnu.net/lava_croft/files/mapping/ has some more stuff too.


SOC'S TECH SET IS NOT PERMITTED
You may only use those textures that were used in Sokolov's Space.

Quote from: "Plague Bringer"
Quote
Other factors may sway my favor


You take bribes? xD

Is an Env Box manditory?

Is the .map to be handed in with the .bsp?


An enviroment box IS NOT manditory. If you are going to do an indoors only map, then that's fine.

The .map doesn't need to be handed in, however, that it may increase you chances of winning if you do.

And lastly, I dont take bribes... Ever...





At all...
Title: Re: >>MAPPING COMPETION<<
Post by: Diggs on July 05, 2007, 02:13:54 am
Quote from: "Kaleo"

Judging
The maps will be judged on looks and playability. Other factors may sway my favor, but just try your best to make it an attractive and fun map.
Myself and a few others will be judging... You will learn who the judges are when it comes to it.

Prizes
Prizes... erm... I dunno... What about the satisfaction of having been selected as Tremulous.net's best mapper. Yeah... that'll do! The satisfaction of having been selected as Tremulous.net's best mapper.


I'll chip in $100 in prize money.  Anyone else?

Be sure judging is fair (more than one person's opinion) and figure out a way to be sure the money gets to the winner.
Title: Old Mapping Competition
Post by: Kaleo on July 05, 2007, 02:18:35 am
$100 dollars you say...

Money could esely be distributed by paypal, and rest assured, Judeing will be fair.
Title: Old Mapping Competition
Post by: Diggs on July 05, 2007, 02:20:57 am
It's not allot, but will get the ball rolling (so to speak). and make things a little more interesting.  Or, we can do a 75% prize money to 1st prize and 25% to runner up.

The only problem with PayPal is that the recipient has to have an account, doesn't he?
Title: Old Mapping Competition
Post by: Plague Bringer on July 05, 2007, 02:22:47 am
Quote from: "Diggs"
The only problem with PayPal is that the recipient has to have an account, doesn't he?
IIRC that is correct.
Title: Old Mapping Competition
Post by: Kaleo on July 05, 2007, 02:27:49 am
And that would be a problem?
Title: Old Mapping Competition
Post by: Diggs on July 05, 2007, 02:39:32 am
Quote from: "Kaleo"
And that would be a problem?


Yes as no one wants to start up an account for a one time transaction.  Let's not get hung up on the details of funds transfer.  The only challenge will be if there has to be currency conversion, but there are ways to handle that also.
Title: Old Mapping Competition
Post by: Plague Bringer on July 05, 2007, 03:21:50 am
Regarding the models, how much of a part do they have to play in the level? Can they just be eyecandy spread across the level?

For example, if I wanted to use computer.md3 in my map in a few places, that'd count? What if it was as simple as a mod in the corner of a room, or a garbage can? What about light md3 models?

Also, do they have to be hand made, or can they be taken from a site online. If the latter, is (are) there any specific site(s)?
Title: Old Mapping Competition
Post by: Kaleo on July 05, 2007, 06:44:37 am
Quote from: "Plague Bringer"
Regarding the models, how much of a part do they have to play in the level? Can they just be eyecandy spread across the level?

For example, if I wanted to use computer.md3 in my map in a few places, that'd count? What if it was as simple as a mod in the corner of a room, or a garbage can? What about light md3 models?

Also, do they have to be hand made, or can they be taken from a site online. If the latter, is (are) there any specific site(s)?


Models can be used in any way you want. If you want to have computer.md3 in a corner, then so be it. If you want to have wallthing.md3 sitting in a place nobody's ever going to see it however, then that will not count.

The only restrictions on models are that you must use two, and that you must be able to see them.

PS: Can some Mod sticky this?
Title: Old Mapping Competition
Post by: Survivor on July 05, 2007, 06:52:00 am
I'll sticky this once all details are worked out and the first post edited and you summon up some more judges. 1 won't do, especially if he's not a recognized face in these parts.

And if you want to spice things up without it costing money ask the devs if the winner can have an icon and/or rank change. Some people on this forum would prefer that over the hassle of winning money.
Title: Old Mapping Competition
Post by: Kaleo on July 05, 2007, 07:49:09 am
Quote from: "Survivor"
I'll sticky this once all details are worked out and the first post edited and you summon up some more judges. 1 won't do, especially if he's not a recognized face in these parts.

And if you want to spice things up without it costing money ask the devs if the winner can have an icon and/or rank change. Some people on this forum would prefer that over the hassle of winning money.


Will do...

And are you calling me "Unrecognised"? Over 600 posts man... 600!
Title: Old Mapping Competition
Post by: ShadowNinjaDudeMan on July 05, 2007, 10:37:58 am
Quote from: "Survivor"
Some people on this forum would prefer that over the hassle of winning money.


I suppose, I being the world renowned psychiatrist that I am, see signs of retardidness developing in some forum members.

But not me, I would love the money.
Title: Old Mapping Competition
Post by: Thorn on July 05, 2007, 11:05:20 am
Quote from: "Kaleo"
And are you calling me "Unrecognised"? Over 600 posts man... 600!


What he meant is that your pretty unknown in the mapping world.
Title: Old Mapping Competition
Post by: Shadowgandor on July 05, 2007, 11:17:39 am
Could i enter the mapping contest? I've got 2 mapping ideas, one atcs like map i'm working on atm and one other map which i am going to try and make for the contest. I'm still very newbish but i'll just try hard and ask survivor a lot of questions ;).
Title: Old Mapping Competition
Post by: Survivor on July 05, 2007, 03:22:30 pm
Quote from: "Kaleo"
Will do...

And are you calling me "Unrecognised"? Over 600 posts man... 600!


Postcount means nothing

Quote from: "Thorn"
What he meant is that your pretty unknown in the mapping world.


Exactly.

Also I'll be splitting off the posts from this topic concerning questions about making the maps. This topic is for rules of the contest and applications to it.
Title: Re: >>MAPPING COMPETION<<
Post by: Survivor on July 05, 2007, 03:31:27 pm
Now for my nitpicking.
Quote from: "Kaleo"
Kaleo's Mapping Competiton

Yay

Quote from: "Kaleo"

Outline
This competition is designed to find the best mapper in the Tremulous Community. Because I love seeing the work that you guys do, I thought that we should do a competion. The competion will test you skills to work with a set amount of stuff in a set amount of time...

Applause

Quote from: "Kaleo"
Rules
The rules for the competion are as follows:
Textures: You may only use textures form one source, and that source must be either 1) Nexus6, 2) Niveus, 3) Karith or 4) Sokolov's Space. (Please note that the use of any Common or Common-Trem textures is permitted. These are shaders that contribute to the structure of the map.)Please note: SOC'S TECH SET IS NOT PERMITTED!!! You may only use those textures that were used in Sokolov's Space.

Can live with those restrictions.

Quote from: "Kaleo"

Mapobjects: You MUST use AT LEAST 2 different mapobjects in your map.

Why? What use? Merely a small button .md3 or is a selfmade artwork needed. Can it use its own texture and as such is exempt from the texset rule? Really don't see the use for this.

Quote from: "Kaleo"

Enviroment Boxes: Only Sock's enviroment boxes are to be used. LINKY (http://www.simonoc.com/pages/materials.htm). DO NOT USE THE ENVIROMENT BOXES FROM YOUR CHOSEN TEXTURE SET!

Reasonable

Quote from: "Kaleo"

Judging
The maps will be judged on looks and playability. Other factors may sway my favor, but just try your best to make it an attractive and fun map.
Myself and a few others will be judging... You will learn who the judges are when it comes to it.

Demand a .map and include technical proficiency. People might also learn from these and mappers from each other.

Quote from: "Kaleo"

Timeframe
Starting today (the 4 of July), the competition will run untill the 15th of August. I will release the results a week later on the 22nd.

Reasonable timeframe for a half-decent map.

Edit: Also icon for the winner says Timbo. I'll iconize if need be.
Title: Old Mapping Competition
Post by: Diggs on July 05, 2007, 06:03:02 pm
Quote from: "Survivor"
Some people on this forum would prefer that over the hassle of winning money.


Not sure what you are saying here Survivor.  If they are in the states I can FedX cash to them if needed.  If internationally I may have to use Western Union or the like, but I just need to know who and where and they will get their money.  No hassle.

My point is that if several people come forward to contribute prize money how do we aggragate the money before awarding or is each contributor responsilbe for being sure the winner receives directly from them.
Title: Old Mapping Competition
Post by: Survivor on July 05, 2007, 06:22:29 pm
Quote from: "Diggs"
Quote from: "Survivor"
Some people on this forum would prefer that over the hassle of winning money.

My point is that if several people come forward to contribute prize money how do we aggragate the money before awarding or is each contributor responsilbe for being sure the winner receives directly from them.


The hassle.
Title: Re: >>MAPPING COMPETION<<
Post by: Plague Bringer on July 05, 2007, 08:48:20 pm
Quote from: "Survivor"
Quote from: "Kaleo"

Mapobjects: You MUST use AT LEAST 2 different mapobjects in your map.

Why? What use? Merely a small button .md3 or is a selfmade artwork needed. Can it use its own texture and as such is exempt from the texset rule? Really don't see the use for this..


I have to +1 that.
Title: Old Mapping Competition
Post by: Diggs on July 05, 2007, 09:43:11 pm
Quote from: "Survivor"
Quote from: "Diggs"
Quote from: "Survivor"
Some people on this forum would prefer that over the hassle of winning money.

My point is that if several people come forward to contribute prize money how do we aggragate the money before awarding or is each contributor responsilbe for being sure the winner receives directly from them.


The hassle.


If map designers are happier with an icon instead of cash, that works for me.
Title: Old Mapping Competition
Post by: Survivor on July 05, 2007, 09:47:11 pm
I'm not stopping you of adding to it, I was only pointing out the possible difficulties. The added icon is simply a mark of distinction for the most worthy mapper in this contest on the forums while keeping it real easy. You are within your full right to add your own reward.
Title: Old Mapping Competition
Post by: Kaleo on July 06, 2007, 03:30:11 am
RULES UPDATED

*bump*
Title: Old Mapping Competition
Post by: Mango on July 06, 2007, 03:49:47 am
I would suggest more than one category. Maybe for maps that are better in some ways than others. Also, maybe consider having more than one prize?

I'm sure there are lots of people who are new to the mapping scene who haven't built up there skills, but have plenty of talent. Maybe you could nominate your map to be in an expert category, or... not so expert  :D
Title: Old Mapping Competition
Post by: Kaleo on July 06, 2007, 03:58:44 am
This competition is designed to find the best mapper. That means if some nobody comes along and creates a map that looks ugly but plays well, they get the same amount of credit if someone makes a map that looks awesome, yet plays like a cow.

A good mapper is someone who can combine these skills.
Title: Old Mapping Competition
Post by: Plague Bringer on July 06, 2007, 04:38:42 am
Are any prior public gameplay tests or releases allowed, or is this competition to count as the first release?

Also, what will happen to the .map after judging? I can't speak for everybody, but I'll want mine to be deleted, I don't want anyone tampering around with the map and re-releasing it.
Title: Old Mapping Competition
Post by: n00b pl0x on July 06, 2007, 05:13:17 am
Quote from: "Kaleo"
If some nobody comes along and creates a map that looks ugly but plays well, they get the same amount of credit if someone makes a map that looks awesome, yet plays like a cow.


i, a proud cow, resent that remark.

DIE :evil:
Title: ok, but fix the spelling, plz
Post by: player1 on July 06, 2007, 05:27:56 am
can you fix the spelling on the thread name?

"competion"

just to prove u r worthy to judge the work of others?
Title: Old Mapping Competition
Post by: Kaleo on July 06, 2007, 06:18:05 am
Quote from: "Plague Bringer"
Are any prior public gameplay tests or releases allowed, or is this competition to count as the first release?

Also, what will happen to the .map after judging? I can't speak for everybody, but I'll want mine to be deleted, I don't want anyone tampering around with the map and re-releasing it.


No public gameplay tests. Private ones, by all means, but no public ones.

And I will delete your .map files if you wish.
Title: Old Mapping Competition
Post by: Survivor on July 06, 2007, 07:30:35 am
You haven't explained the model rule and the icon is custom. They can choose it themselves and keep it forever. But changes to it are expected to be very slow so choose one you want to stick with if you win.
Title: Old Mapping Competition
Post by: Kaleo on July 06, 2007, 07:41:16 am
Quote from: "Survivor"
You haven't explained the model rule and the icon is custom. They can choose it themselves and keep it forever. But changes to it are expected to be very slow so choose one you want to stick with if you win.


Models need to be obvious. I did already explain that.

As for Icons, they are not going to be custom. I have spoken to DASPRiD, and they will be a sort of title.

Survivor, please stop acting as if this is your idea.
Title: Old Mapping Competition
Post by: Plague Bringer on July 06, 2007, 02:51:27 pm
Okay, thanks for the fast responses (and sorry for the many questions), Kaleo.

If we run into a problem, or need some help in deciding what to do with something, are we allowed to ask for help, or do we have to search for a wiki?

I'll give you an example:

Ok, I'm having some trouble with a.. trigger_buildable. Am I allowed to ask an experienced mapper for help, or do I have to google it and figure it out on my own?

or

I can't decide whether to have a ladder in the giant pit, or a staircase to get to the bottom. Can I ask someone who'd be able to advise me on the best way to go?
Title: Old Mapping Competition
Post by: Survivor on July 06, 2007, 05:41:55 pm
Quote from: "Kaleo"
Quote from: "Survivor"
You haven't explained the model rule and the icon is custom. They can choose it themselves and keep it forever. But changes to it are expected to be very slow so choose one you want to stick with if you win.


Models need to be obvious. I did already explain that.

As for Icons, they are not going to be custom. I have spoken to DASPRiD, and they will be a sort of title.

Survivor, please stop acting as if this is your idea.


I only requested the icon from timbo or dasprid to add to your competition as a price and got an answer from timbo. No more.

Dasprid as a judge is a wise choice. But at what do timbo and overflow need to help in mapping? Can we request help from them on technical issues with mapping? Insights into the 1.2.0 possibilities for mapping so we can adjust our maps for that? I don't understand what you are saying here.

And what is obvious about the models? There need to be a minimum of two different obvious models? I am not asking what they are, I know they are models. I am asking why 2 and what limitations are set on them. Selfmade, or imported from within the maps of the texturesets, or completely free. You still haven't answered that.

I wasn't taking over control of this. I was trying to make your original post as complete as possible so nobody can say they were following rules when they were not. But I'll no longer point out anything. You take a few pointers as harsh criticism.
Title: Old Mapping Competition
Post by: Plague Bringer on July 06, 2007, 05:52:39 pm
Don't get overly defensive, Survivor, you're just helping. However, it did seem as though you were telling Kaleo what the icons were going to be, when Kaleo is the one who would choose.

Also, Kaleo pointed out that the models need to be in plain view, but they can be taken from anywhere.

Kaleo, would I be able to use the two types of boxes from Transit as the two different models? I'm not big on model usage, and I'd like to do most of the work with brushes. Also (I know you haven't had time to respond, but I dont want my previous questions to be unanswered, just incase you skip over some posts)...

Quote
Okay, thanks for the fast responses (and sorry for the many questions), Kaleo.

If we run into a problem, or need some help in deciding what to do with something, are we allowed to ask for help, or do we have to search for a wiki?

I'll give you an example:

Ok, I'm having some trouble with a.. trigger_buildable. Am I allowed to ask an experienced mapper for help, or do I have to google it and figure it out on my own?

or

I can't decide whether to have a ladder in the giant pit, or a staircase to get to the bottom. Can I ask someone who'd be able to advise me on the best way to go?



Can we also get a list of the mappers that are entering this competition? I'd like to know who else is mapping for this.
Title: Old Mapping Competition
Post by: Survivor on July 06, 2007, 06:45:11 pm
Last time, to explain.

Quote from: "Plague Bringer"
Don't get overly defensive, Survivor, you're just helping. However, it did seem as though you were telling Kaleo what the icons were going to be, when Kaleo is the one who would choose.


I answered as I got it from Timbo. I had and still have no knowledge of communication between Kaleo and dasp or timbo. Am I required to be psychic?

Quote from: "Plague Bringer"

Also, Kaleo pointed out that the models need to be in plain view, but they can be taken from anywhere.

There is no max limit. This means someone who is an excellent modeller can transcend texturesetlimitation with mapping since everything is allowed in moddeling and actually only needs to add caulk and related trem entities.
Also why do there have to be models. The minimum limit is a mystery. Why minimum 2, what does it add?
I also see that without an upperlimit good modellers can easily overcome the greatest brushwork mapper because they are not limited within texturesets nor Radiant design limitations.

I am just trying to make his rules fool, fail and faultproof. I can't help it I contain my responses because I don't want to be known as an ass.

But when I become an ass like i did in my previous post it is because people do not know why I state my things. I've had my run in with kobrakaine over several of my mod decisions and they have been in several threads, I explained myself but my explanations take so much time usually that it's easier to simply suggest than explain. Especially when I know the same person will doubt me next time anyway.
Title: Old Mapping Competition
Post by: TRaK on July 06, 2007, 07:20:21 pm
I think the mapper should be allowed to add a few(like 2-5) custom textures/shaders. For example, there is no water shader in the nexus6 texture(afaik). Being allowed to add at least a couple custom ones would help to vary up one's options a bit.

Just a suggestion. I might make something for this, dunno yet.
Title: Old Mapping Competition
Post by: rdizzle on July 06, 2007, 07:33:48 pm
If this is supposed to be a "the best mapper" contest, why is there a limit on textures and shaders?

setting those up yourself and mixing colors and light are a huge part of mapping for games.  saying you can only use someone else's artwork is complete bullshit.

the limits in the contest are starting to sound retarded.

but, have at it.
Title: Old Mapping Competition
Post by: AKAnotu on July 06, 2007, 08:16:18 pm
i hate your texture rule
Title: Old Mapping Competition
Post by: Plague Bringer on July 06, 2007, 08:58:39 pm
That's 3 against and.. one for.
Title: Old Mapping Competition
Post by: Plague Bringer on July 06, 2007, 09:02:18 pm
That's 3 against and.. one for.
Title: Old Mapping Competition
Post by: rdizzle on July 06, 2007, 09:18:38 pm
Let me be clear, I like the idea of setting limits to contests, and limits often inspire great creativity.

However, maps are works of art.  Incorporating others people's artwork is fine, but if you are not allowed to incorporate your own shaders or your own textures, you are basically forced to recycle and rehash existing visuals.  Plus, you are basically saying if you want to use shader A you better hope to god you can find it in the shader list of one of the maps listed.  And if you do find that shader, are you then not allowed to modify it's values?
Title: Old Mapping Competition
Post by: Kaleo on July 07, 2007, 01:46:17 am
So many lovely questions. Where to start...

Firstly, Plague Bringer: I think it would be appropriate to ask a "Senior" mapper for help. Many mappers, good or bad, should ask questions. ANY one should ask questions for ANY thing. Also, there are no restrictions on to what md3/ase files you use. Hell, you could grab the hotdog cart md3 from Urban Terror if you felt like it. I want to see how you incorporate this in your map. Use the boxes, by all means.

Secondly, Survivor: Part of your question was answered above, so i don't need to repeat myself.
Quote
There is no max limit. This means someone who is an excellent modeller can transcend texturesetlimitation with mapping since everything is allowed in moddeling and actually only needs to add caulk and related trem entities.
Also why do there have to be models. The minimum limit is a mystery. Why minimum 2, what does it add?
I also see that without an upperlimit good modellers can easily overcome the greatest brushwork mapper because they are not limited within texturesets nor Radiant design limitations.

I'm not entirely sure of what you mean by this, but if im right, you mean that you think people will make the entire map in a 3D program and then just pop in some other stuff in Radiant afterwards. This is fine. If anyone does this I will be very impressed.

Thirdly, TRaK: Very interesting point. Maybe I might give a list of shaders that you can use anytime.

And lastly, everyone disliking my texture limitations: ...
Go listen to rdizzle.


Thank you for you questions, and I apologize in advanced for this double post. I still need to get a messages across.
Title: Old Mapping Competition
Post by: Kaleo on July 07, 2007, 01:52:46 am
ATTENTION

It is important that I know who will be taking part in this competition. It is open to anyone. If you wish to take part in this competition, then please send me a PM just saying that you want to. I will put your name in the first post.

PM me (http://tremulous.net/phpBB2/privmsg.php?mode=post&u=2248)

Entry closes on Wednesday the 11th
Title: Old Mapping Competition
Post by: n00b pl0x on July 07, 2007, 04:23:14 am
kaleo, aside from mocking L E G I O N A I R E and you in making my font huge and retardedly colored, my post was serious.

you have a lot of shit to sort out and you should figure out specific rules...your current rules leave a lot to be desired and look like they were made in like 30 seconds...with no consultation of anyone else at all

id suggest pushing it back at least a week or two

p.s. ur cumbak r 2 gud 4 me

you flame like evlesoa. and thats not a compliment, considering you flamed a semiconstructive post.

i do want to see this idea get off the ground

otherwise i would have just said something to the effect of "kaleo, go away. you suck at mapping, and you suck even more at making mapping tournament rules. leave it to someone with common sense."
Title: Old Mapping Competition
Post by: TRaK on July 07, 2007, 04:26:49 am
My only gripe is the texture rule. It's fairly restrictive, and I don't think it serves any particular purpose.
Title: Old Mapping Competition
Post by: Kaleo on July 07, 2007, 05:28:18 am
The Texture rule is in place to make it more of a challenge. The next competition may of may not have this rule depending on how this one goes.
Title: Old Mapping Competition
Post by: Survivor on July 07, 2007, 10:42:59 am
I am just too stubborn to let this go.

Quote from: "Kaleo"
Secondly, Survivor: Part of your question was answered above, so i don't need to repeat myself.
What question? Because the main question is below this and there were no others which you've answered yet.

Quote from: "Kaleo"

Quote
There is no max limit. This means someone who is an excellent modeller can transcend texturesetlimitation with mapping since everything is allowed in moddeling and actually only needs to add caulk and related trem entities.
Also why do there have to be models. The minimum limit is a mystery. Why minimum 2, what does it add?
I also see that without an upperlimit good modellers can easily overcome the greatest brushwork mapper because they are not limited within texturesets nor Radiant design limitations.

I'm not entirely sure of what you mean by this, but if im right, you mean that you think people will make the entire map in a 3D program and then just pop in some other stuff in Radiant afterwards. This is fine. If anyone does this I will be very impressed.


This becomes a modeller-promoting contest in that case. When they are not limited to texturesets they can model a wall with a texture they like or make which isn't in the brushmapper restriction while staying within your rules. This would offset everything since the best looking maps would be from people who would be learning and applying a minimum of mapping and a maximum of modeling. Answer me where your rules adress such a blatant misuse.

Neither have you answered why there is a minimum of two? Why. Give me a straight answer and I'll let it rest. And if you say you've answered it already quote it again.

Quote from: "Kaleo"

And lastly, everyone disliking my texture limitations: ...
Go listen to rdizzle.


Quote from: "rdizzle"
If this is supposed to be a "the best mapper" contest, why is there a limit on textures and shaders?

setting those up yourself and mixing colors and light are a huge part of mapping for games. saying you can only use someone else's artwork is complete bullshit.

the limits in the contest are starting to sound retarded.

but, have at it.


Quote from: "rdizzle"
Let me be clear, I like the idea of setting limits to contests, and limits often inspire great creativity.

However, maps are works of art. Incorporating others people's artwork is fine, but if you are not allowed to incorporate your own shaders or your own textures, you are basically forced to recycle and rehash existing visuals. Plus, you are basically saying if you want to use shader A you better hope to god you can find it in the shader list of one of the maps listed. And if you do find that shader, are you then not allowed to modify it's values?


Question you have not answered and I don't even think you've read his posts.
Title: Old Mapping Competition
Post by: ShadowNinjaDudeMan on July 07, 2007, 12:04:36 pm
I think Kal is restricting textures because then the person who's gone out and got the leetest textures wins just cos of that, equal chances, am I right, Kal?
Title: Old Mapping Competition
Post by: Survivor on July 07, 2007, 12:16:15 pm
Quote from: "ShadowNinjaDudeMan"
I think Kal is restricting textures because then the person who's gone out and got the leetest textures wins just cos of that, equal chances, am I right, Kal?


READ
MY
POST
Title: Old Mapping Competition
Post by: Kaleo on July 07, 2007, 12:47:31 pm
Quote from: "Survivor"
Quote from: "ShadowNinjaDudeMan"
I think Kal is restricting textures because then the person who's gone out and got the leetest textures wins just cos of that, equal chances, am I right, Kal?


READ
MY
POST


SNDM is more right...

And NO BODY is going to make a wall in a 3D program just so they can put it in a map. Too much effort. Besides, doing that would lover their chances of winning.
Title: Old Mapping Competition
Post by: Plague Bringer on July 07, 2007, 07:09:01 pm
Someone who is more adept at modeling then mapping can make a whole level in a 3D program. Read Survivor's post.

Quote
There is no max limit. This means someone who is an excellent modeller can transcend texturesetlimitation with mapping since everything is allowed in moddeling and actually only needs to add caulk and related trem entities.
Also why do there have to be models. The minimum limit is a mystery. Why minimum 2, what does it add?
I also see that without an upperlimit good modellers can easily overcome the greatest brushwork mapper because they are not limited within texturesets nor Radiant design limitations.
Title: Old Mapping Competition
Post by: Ingar on July 07, 2007, 10:47:06 pm
It should be permitted to write your own shaders based on the shaders and textures in the choosen texture set, if it were only to change the lighting values. The essence of shaders is changing the way the choosen textures interact with your map, sometimes in very subtle ways.
I can live with a texture-set constraint. The choosen maps have textures enough.
Title: Re: >>MAPPING COMPETITION<<
Post by: LinuxManMikeC on July 08, 2007, 03:09:36 am
Quote from: "Kaleo"

Textures: You may only use textures form one source, and that source must be either 1) Nexus6, 2) Niveus, 3) Karith or 4) Sokolov's Space.


Shaders may use textures, but shaders are not textures (even though they are applied in the same way as textures when using the editor).  Shaders are a set of instructions for rendering (and more in Q3 engine).  As far as semantics are concerned, the only restriction is on textures. So there! :P :D
Title: Old Mapping Competition
Post by: Plague Bringer on July 08, 2007, 03:21:37 am
Loop hole!
Title: Re: >>MAPPING COMPETITION<<
Post by: Kaleo on July 09, 2007, 09:28:21 am
Quote from: "LinuxManMikeC"
Quote from: "Kaleo"

Textures: You may only use textures form one source, and that source must be either 1) Nexus6, 2) Niveus, 3) Karith or 4) Sokolov's Space.


Shaders may use textures, but shaders are not textures (even though they are applied in the same way as textures when using the editor).  Shaders are a set of instructions for rendering (and more in Q3 engine).  As far as semantics are concerned, the only restriction is on textures. So there! :P :D


Now, that's just being silly and you know it...

Fine... Shaders have that rule applied too.
Title: Old Mapping Competition
Post by: Ingar on July 09, 2007, 09:50:36 am
No own shaders == no contests. The choosen maps  have lots of non-solid and no-light textures shaders which are uterrly useless to me.

Even if you download a texture pack, chances are you'll have to edit
the shaders to make them usable for your map.
Title: Old Mapping Competition
Post by: DASPRiD on July 09, 2007, 11:15:32 am
For my part, i would allow own shaders. They are important like brushes.
Title: Re: >>MAPPING COMPETITION<<
Post by: LinuxManMikeC on July 09, 2007, 03:34:12 pm
Quote from: "Kaleo"
Now, that's just being silly and you know it...


I have several friends who are lawyers, and law is a bit of an interest/hobby of mine.  8)

And I'd hardly call that being silly: shaders are shaders, textures are textures.  Details are a :dretch: , but necessary.
Title: Old Mapping Competition
Post by: rdizzle on July 09, 2007, 04:13:30 pm
Quote from: "DASPRiD"
For my part, i would allow own shaders. They are important like brushes.


No kidding, how the fuck are we supposed to blend textures, even only the textures provided in the maps mentioned, if we can't add/modify our own textures?
Title: Old Mapping Competition
Post by: Ingar on July 09, 2007, 06:08:37 pm
Quote from: "rdizzle"
Quote from: "DASPRiD"
For my part, i would allow own shaders. They are important like brushes.


No kidding, how the fuck are we supposed to blend textures, even only the textures provided in the maps mentioned, if we can't add/modify our own textures?


Please do not confuse the subject any further:
textures = .jpg .tga images
The proposed texture sets offer a wide range  of textures, which most tremulous mappers have probably used before anyway. It will also force
the mappers to stay somewhat in line with the exisiting maps.

shader = .shader scripts
In my opinion, writing shaders is an essential part of making a map, most mappers write their own shaders, but few of them make their own textures.

I would agree that the rules do not state anything about shaders, so I assume writing your own shaders for the choosen texture set is allowed.
Title: Re: >>MAPPING COMPETITION<<
Post by: LinuxManMikeC on July 09, 2007, 06:16:30 pm
Quote from: "Kaleo"
Prizes
The prize will be an Icon indicating that you were chosen as the best mapper in this competition. When the competition is held again, you will loose the Icon (which will go to the winner of that competition) and get one saying that you have previously won the Competition.


Why not just give the winner an icon that says something like "2007 Winner" or "Summer 2007 Winner" and keep it that way?  I know its wordy for an icon, but something along those lines.  Just a random idea.
Title: Re: >>MAPPING COMPETITION<<
Post by: rdizzle on July 09, 2007, 07:13:19 pm
Quote from: "Kaleo"

Fine... Shaders have that rule applied too.


Ingar you can't read.  Kaleo said the Texture rule applies to Shaders as well.

Grab yourself a copy of hooked on phonics.
Title: Old Mapping Competition
Post by: rdizzle on July 09, 2007, 07:20:13 pm
Quote from: "Ingar"
Quote from: "rdizzle"
Quote from: "DASPRiD"
For my part, i would allow own shaders. They are important like brushes.


No kidding, how the fuck are we supposed to blend textures, even only the textures provided in the maps mentioned, if we can't add/modify our own textures?


yeah that should have read like this

Quote from: "rdizzle"
Quote from: "DASPRiD"
For my part, i would allow own shaders. They are important like brushes.


No kidding, how the fuck are we supposed to blend textures, even only the textures provided in the maps mentioned, if we can't add/modify our own shaders?

 
If you are a serious mapper, you know how to blend textures with shader scripts.
Title: Old Mapping Competition
Post by: gareth on July 09, 2007, 08:37:49 pm
ok, i will enter if you make it so that you can enter any map, even if started already, even with different textures, but has to be released (the version to enter in the contest) before the end date. :D
Title: Old Mapping Competition
Post by: Raytray on July 10, 2007, 02:36:35 am
Hrm, I do believe that this contest has failed before it has ended. It was a good idea. However setting the rules in stone before starting the contest would be a better idea.

Oh and rules that make sense that is. Have an experienced mapper make up the rules and let someone else manage the contest?
Title: Re: >>MAPPING COMPETITION<<
Post by: Kaleo on July 10, 2007, 03:35:50 am
Quote from: "LinuxManMikeC"
Quote from: "Kaleo"
Now, that's just being silly and you know it...


I have several friends who are lawyers, and law is a bit of an interest/hobby of mine.  8)

And I'd hardly call that being silly: shaders are shaders, textures are textures.  Details are a :dretch: , but necessary.


Actually, you're just being pedantic.
Title: Old Mapping Competition
Post by: Plague Bringer on July 10, 2007, 03:49:57 am
You're being closed minded. Most of the experienced and knowledgable mappers here have told you what's wrong with the rules, and how to fix them. You've been ignoring them.
Title: Old Mapping Competition
Post by: Seffylight on July 10, 2007, 07:42:01 am
It's against the rules to write your own shaders for your map?

Have you ever mapped for Q3 before? Writing your own shaders are practically necessary to make a decent looking map.
Title: Old Mapping Competition
Post by: Kaleo on July 10, 2007, 09:58:09 am
Quote from: "Seffylight"
It's against the rules to write your own shaders for your map?

Have you ever mapped for Q3 before? Writing your own shaders are practically necessary to make a decent looking map.


I do map for Q3, yes. You don't, or at least not well. I have made very cool looking maps for Q3 by using other peoples shaders. I have never made a shader.
Title: Old Mapping Competition
Post by: Lava Croft on July 10, 2007, 12:09:52 pm
This competetion is becoming a failure because of the retardedly stubborn people organizing it.
Title: Old Mapping Competition
Post by: .f0rqu3 on July 10, 2007, 12:18:33 pm
becoming?
it was the fail. it is teh fail.
Title: Old Mapping Competition
Post by: David on July 10, 2007, 02:22:42 pm
Quote from: "Lava Croft"
This competetion is becoming a failure because of the retardedly stubborn people organizing it.

s/people/person/
If it had a group organising it it would be better.  slower but better.

Why have restrictions?  just say anything goes so long as its all accredited to whoever made the textures etc.
Title: Old Mapping Competition
Post by: Plague Bringer on July 10, 2007, 03:01:43 pm
Quote from: "Kaleo"
Quote from: "Seffylight"
It's against the rules to write your own shaders for your map?

Have you ever mapped for Q3 before? Writing your own shaders are practically necessary to make a decent looking map.


I do map for Q3, yes. You don't, or at least not well. I have made very cool looking maps for Q3 by using other peoples shaders. I have never made a shader.
Have you ever seen Seffylight map? If not, then you have no idea if he (she?)  maps well.

Oh, and I'd appreciate it if you'd start listening to the veteran mappers around here. Those mappers being Survivor, TRaK, DASPRiD, Lava Croft, and Ingar. May I remind you?
Quote from: "I"
Most of the experienced and knowledgable mappers here have told you what's wrong with the rules, and how to fix them. You've been ignoring them.
Title: Old Mapping Competition
Post by: .f0rqu3 on July 10, 2007, 03:05:17 pm
I dont think survivor completed a single map
Title: Old Mapping Competition
Post by: Plague Bringer on July 10, 2007, 03:10:01 pm
Quote
experienced and knowledgable
Title: Old Mapping Competition
Post by: rdizzle on July 10, 2007, 04:00:31 pm
So every map you have made, involved only copying and pasting other people's shaders??  o_0

You've never modified a shader that you copied? Altered it in any way?

I call bullshit.

And if it's true.  You are a god damn retard.
Title: Old Mapping Competition
Post by: Survivor on July 10, 2007, 04:34:54 pm
Quote from: ".f0rqu3"
I dont think survivor completed a single map


Not one tremulous map. And the only ones I have in the public domain for q3 are q3tower revised and the i presume lost now mar1, 2 and 3.
Title: Old Mapping Competition
Post by: Survivor on July 10, 2007, 04:36:36 pm
Quote from: "David"
Quote from: "Lava Croft"
This competetion is becoming a failure because of the retardedly stubborn people organizing it.

s/people/person/
If it had a group organising it it would be better.  slower but better.

Why have restrictions?  just say anything goes so long as its all accredited to whoever made the textures etc.


I was so hoping it would work out. Actually some incentive for mappers. Too bad.
Title: Old Mapping Competition
Post by: Diggs on July 10, 2007, 11:29:13 pm
And the questions continue.... It's disappointing to read all the negative and rude posts. The discussion is not positive towards the goal of providing Tremulous with new quality maps.

Are we looking at 2 mapping contests (Kaleo and Gareth)? Has Kaleo turned things over to gareth? Should the two of them discuss things privately with some of the established mappers with maybe a final consultation from some of the devs before objectives, rules, criteria and the contest is announced? Gareth - Your announcement (other thread) has less detail and guidelines than Kaleo and you saw how that was accepted.

I won't support multiple contests. I was hoping to provide seed money to increase motivation and incentive and make things a little more interesting, but thought it might be matched or other prize contributors step forward. So far, not.

I admit that $100 is nothing compared to the time it takes to submit a good map and will increase it to $150 (or equivalent currency for the winner(s)), but still admit it is lacking and hope others join the prize money efforts. I would favor a first prize and a runner up with some division of the prize money to be decided.

I don't agree that some of the maps that have been recently released should not be included. These mappers went through allot of effort without the hope of any reward and since no one has really judged them, they have not been recognized by most of the players. Something should be decided that takes these into consideration in some context and allow these mappers to polish and tweak them before judging.

(Sorry for the double post as there seems to be duplicate threads.)
Title: Old Mapping Competition
Post by: TRaK on July 11, 2007, 05:19:23 am
I think this thread should be deleted, and replaced by a new one with a fixed set of rules.

If it were me, I would just remove all the rules, and just have a general mapping contest. If you really want good-looking, playable maps to come out of this, then it would be a good idea to put as few limits as possible on the mappers' creativity.

That being said, if you want to salvage this rule set, you should at least allow shader editing. That rule is just plain unreasonable.

Edit : Is anyone even participating in this contest? It's looking to me like it's dead before it even really began.
Title: Old Mapping Competition
Post by: Survivor on July 11, 2007, 10:45:34 am
Quote from: "TRaK"
I think this thread should be deleted, and replaced by a new one with a fixed set of rules.

There would have to be agreement over rules first.

Quote from: "TRaK"

If it were me, I would just remove all the rules, and just have a general mapping contest. If you really want good-looking, playable maps to come out of this, then it would be a good idea to put as few limits as possible on the mappers' creativity.

Certain rules must exist for clarities sake, like a time limit, procedure for entering, clarity about what will be judged and who will do the judging, clear distinction of what will be allowed.

If we take digg's example of letting even maps in that are already released, without adding any rules that would mean I could nick a .map of the official maps and brighten it up. Although no judge would award me any price except the cheapskate one it is something you would want to discourage.
Same with for example pulse. It's already released. I know soubok has plans for it and might even have worked out some glitches while waiting for the 1.2 mapping options to become available. As a result while a timelimit would limit any mappers starting anew soubok has a practical, beautiful, playtested, known map which he would get an extra month to improve upon an already great map.
I'm not trying to say they aren't interesting because they certainly are but instead before you start the new competition have a precompetition judgement of maps already released to determine the best of them and take them out of the new competition.

Quote from: "TRaK"

Edit : Is anyone even participating in this contest? It's looking to me like it's dead before it even really began.

1 or 2 but their applications got lost in the discussion of the rules i think.
Title: Old Mapping Competition
Post by: Diggs on July 11, 2007, 12:39:55 pm
Quote from: "Survivor"

If we take digg's example of letting even maps in that are already released, without adding any rules...


I was trying to say is that I was hoping there could be a way devised that these maps could be brought in to the contest in some way for consideration.  Whether in a seperate catagory or....
Title: Old Mapping Competition
Post by: Survivor on July 11, 2007, 01:38:27 pm
Quote from: "Diggs"
Quote from: "Survivor"

If we take digg's example of letting even maps in that are already released, without adding any rules...


I was trying to say is that I was hoping there could be a way devised that these maps could be brought in to the contest in some way for consideration.  Whether in a seperate catagory or....


Quote from: "Survivor"
I'm not trying to say they aren't interesting because they certainly are but instead before you start the new competition have a precompetition judgement of maps already released to determine the best of them and take them out of the new competition.


There would be no way to revoke their headstart except having an 'already released best' category.
Title: Old Mapping Competition
Post by: David on July 11, 2007, 03:09:34 pm
How about a contest for 1.2 maps?  Let people use all the cool features, don't require them, but people who use them would then have more ways to wow the judges.
Also, it would get us some good 1.2 maps.  And for old maps, say maps currently in alpha are allowed, but others are not.
Title: Old Mapping Competition
Post by: .f0rqu3 on July 11, 2007, 04:30:25 pm
will there be 1.2? lol
Title: Old Mapping Competition
Post by: Diggs on July 12, 2007, 03:34:33 am
f0rque3 I usually don't take the time to read your posts because they just aren't worth the time, but I am convinced you snuck into the gene pool when the lifeguards weren't looking.

Try!  I mean try real hard to be constructive and on topic once in awhile.
Title: Old Mapping Competition
Post by: .f0rqu3 on July 12, 2007, 09:23:39 am
Quote from: "Diggs"
f0rque3 I usually don't take the time to read your posts because they just aren't worth the time, but I am convinced you snuck into the gene pool when the lifeguards weren't looking.

Try!  I mean try real hard to be constructive and on topic once in awhile.

I dont read yours either  :wink:
Title: Old Mapping Competition
Post by: ShadowNinjaDudeMan on July 12, 2007, 09:51:20 am
Quote from: ".f0rqu3"
Quote from: "Diggs"
f0rque3 I usually don't take the time to read your posts because they just aren't worth the time, but I am convinced you snuck into the gene pool when the lifeguards weren't looking.

Try!  I mean try real hard to be constructive and on topic once in awhile.

I dont read yours either  :wink:


And I never quote either of you two.
Title: Old Mapping Competition
Post by: Shadowgandor on July 12, 2007, 02:09:49 pm
Quote from: "ShadowNinjaDudeMan"
Quote from: ".f0rqu3"
Quote from: "Diggs"
f0rque3 I usually don't take the time to read your posts because they just aren't worth the time, but I am convinced you snuck into the gene pool when the lifeguards weren't looking.

Try!  I mean try real hard to be constructive and on topic once in awhile.

I dont read yours either  :wink:


And I never quote either of you two.


lol, anyway, i won't be competing in this competition, i would only have 2 weeks, since the rest of the time, i'll be on a holiday rofl.
Title: Old Mapping Competition
Post by: AKAnotu on August 14, 2007, 02:10:06 am
this hasnt ended officially yet, lol
it seems like, two months ago when it was started
Title: Old Mapping Competition
Post by: Survivor on August 22, 2007, 10:52:45 am
Unstickied on the 22nd.
Title: Old Mapping Competition
Post by: Kaleo on August 23, 2007, 01:32:06 am
I am going to reopen the competition in a new post this weekend... I have it all worked out...
Title: Old Mapping Competition
Post by: Survivor on August 23, 2007, 01:22:31 pm
Wouldn't it be proper to close this one first. Mentioning submissions and winners. And if there aren't any as I suspect don't hasten yourself on opening a new one.
Title: Old Mapping Competition
Post by: ShadowNinjaDudeMan on August 23, 2007, 07:40:14 pm
Yeah, change the title to summin like:

Nothin to see here...