Tremulous Forum

General => Feedback => Topic started by: Chrysops on August 02, 2007, 03:13:57 am

Title: Are you shure U want to deconn the Reactor, Dude? Dialogue
Post by: Chrysops on August 02, 2007, 03:13:57 am
What I had in mind was a dialogue like this :

 Are you sure you want to deconstruct the overmind?  Your team will not be able to evolve etc. etc. until a new Overmind is built.
  Yes, Deconstruct.
  No, I decided to live.

It would prevent accidental decons when button mashing.  It might also dissuade some deconners who are just not very bright.

But maybe you could get rid of some of the other dialogues to combat dialogue glut.

I think it is more fun when the aliens have the upper hand so I hope 1.2 isn't too balanced. . . Tyrant should have lobster claws to pinch off people's heads, scorpion tail, and fireballs at S4!!! :advmarauder:
Title: Are you shure U want to deconn the Reactor, Dude? Dialogue
Post by: n00b pl0x on August 02, 2007, 03:15:24 am
sage sage sage
Title: Are you shure U want to deconn the Reactor, Dude? Dialogue
Post by: kevlarman on August 02, 2007, 03:25:31 am
Quote from: "n00b pl0x"
sage sage sage
omg i lol'ed so hard. you trying to keep the forums clean? now i've seen everything.
Title: Are you shure U want to deconn the Reactor, Dude? Dialogue
Post by: n00b pl0x on August 02, 2007, 03:37:41 am
im not trying to keep it clean, silly, but im glad i could be of service to you

:D
Title: Are you shure U want to deconn the Reactor, Dude? Dialogue
Post by: Caveman on August 02, 2007, 12:46:29 pm
@OP
You really must suck at hand-to-keyboard|mouse-coordination if you need such a patch to keep from "accidental" decon.
Title: Are you shure U want to deconn the Reactor, Dude? Dialogue
Post by: techhead on August 02, 2007, 08:19:45 pm
I moved decon to the 'R' key, and reload to the 'E' key. Keeps that dangerous button away from my WASD. It also makes reloading easier.
Title: Are you shure U want to deconn the Reactor, Dude? Dialogue
Post by: BULLSEYE@linux.be on August 02, 2007, 10:19:23 pm
they just need to make another way to decon something so it can't happen by accident like nading ur base -_-
Title: Are you shure U want to deconn the Reactor, Dude? Dialogue
Post by: Caveman on August 03, 2007, 07:00:18 am
Nothing can be made idiot-prove ...
Title: Are you shure U want to deconn the Reactor, Dude? Dialogue
Post by: BULLSEYE@linux.be on August 03, 2007, 07:39:27 am
well they already made !denybuild and !designate
Title: Are you shure U want to deconn the Reactor, Dude? Dialogue
Post by: tuple on August 03, 2007, 11:55:23 am
mark deconstruct

 nuff said
Title: Are you shure U want to deconn the Reactor, Dude? Dialogue
Post by: Vector_Matt on August 04, 2007, 03:02:57 pm
Quote from: "tuple"
mark deconstruct

 nuff said
But that doesn't prevent a griefer from marking it, and building it half-way around the map from the humans' base.
Title: Are you shure U want to deconn the Reactor, Dude? Dialogue
Post by: n00b pl0x on August 04, 2007, 07:57:10 pm
Quote from: "Caveman"
Nothing can be made idiot-prove ...


proof
Title: Are you shure U want to deconn the Reactor, Dude? Dialogue
Post by: mooseberry on August 04, 2007, 08:10:33 pm
Quote from: "tuple"
mark deconstruct

 nuff said


And it gets annoying when you're not a deconner.
Title: Are you shure U want to deconn the Reactor, Dude? Dialogue
Post by: n00b pl0x on August 04, 2007, 08:16:39 pm
actually, its much better when youre not a deconner, unless of course youre on one of the shitty servers that dont have the hp bar of the structure toggle when you turn mark deconstruct on and off
Title: Are you shure U want to deconn the Reactor, Dude? Dialogue
Post by: mooseberry on August 04, 2007, 08:27:10 pm
But it gets kind of annoying if you want to say move a turret 1/2 of a foot.
Title: Are you shure U want to deconn the Reactor, Dude? Dialogue
Post by: Nux on August 05, 2007, 01:18:24 am
Unless you're talking about the stubs that seperate the humans from the ground, feet has no meaning in the tremulous realm. Try using 'units' or perhaps 'the length of a dragoon' if you want to be accurate.

Building a new turret in a similar position to the old one is not a problem as it allows you to do it. It's when you try building a node where a turret is that you get an idea of the trouble 'marked decon' can cause.
Title: Are you shure U want to deconn the Reactor, Dude? Dialogue
Post by: kevlarman on August 05, 2007, 05:42:04 am
Quote from: "Nux"
Unless you're talking about the stubs that seperate the humans from the ground, feet has no meaning in the tremulous realm. Try using 'units' or perhaps 'the length of a dragoon' if you want to be accurate.

Building a new turret in a similar position to the old one is not a problem as it allows you to do it. It's when you try building a node where a turret is that you get an idea of the trouble 'marked decon' can cause.
1) that's a known bug that will be fixed by the time 1.2 is out
2) would you prefer markdecon before my patch to allow moving a base around?
Title: Are you shure U want to deconn the Reactor, Dude? Dialogue
Post by: /dev/humancontroller on August 05, 2007, 01:05:02 pm
I don't know why you want a tutorial modes. Let's just disable that, and disallow n00bs to join public servers. It is possible. Everyone must walk through a single-player training session, where the most important stuff is explained and tought, especially building and deconning. Once that is done, the client sets something like cg_me_r_pro to 1. And tells you how to set it manually in case you've lost your cfgs, or consider yourself a pro. What about that?
Title: Are you shure U want to deconn the Reactor, Dude? Dialogue
Post by: Nux on August 05, 2007, 02:43:06 pm
Quote from: "kevlarman"
1) that's a known bug that will be fixed by the time 1.2 is out


That's good. I'd like to see what the final result is like. I have worries about the way in which marked buildings disappear when the new building overlaps them. Though this helps in one way it can cause trouble in others. Given that the system is at least in part intended to help prevent deconners from doing their dastardly deed, how does the system handle an armoury being built over the only two nodes (which have been marked for decon)? Does the system not allow the last node to be deconned unless it will be replaced by another? Does it do anything to punish those who decon all but 1 node (which is almost as bad as having no nodes when large queues are concerned)? Can the armoury be replaced by a repeater? Questions like that I'd like to find answers to ^^.

Quote from: "kevlarman"
2) would you prefer markdecon before my patch to allow moving a base around?


I thought it already allowed this. Can you clarfiy what you mean by "moving a base around".
Title: Are you shure U want to deconn the Reactor, Dude? Dialogue
Post by: Eeeew Spiders on August 05, 2007, 03:11:31 pm
As for deconning and bad building, you could also make it such that you only allow known players (lvl 1) to build, and that unknown players (lvl 0) have !denybuild automatically.
This ofcourse only works when servers are maintained like the wrath server for example, where every regular player has lvl 1.
Title: Are you shure U want to deconn the Reactor, Dude? Dialogue
Post by: DHRUVINATOR on August 05, 2007, 04:27:54 pm
Their wont be a s4 live with it ! Even though i want it . :)
Title: Are you shure U want to deconn the Reactor, Dude? Dialogue
Post by: yetshi on August 05, 2007, 08:09:27 pm
Quote from: "Vector_Matt"
Quote from: "tuple"
mark deconstruct

 nuff said
But that doesn't prevent a griefer from marking it, and building it half-way around the map from the humans' base.


easy enough.

when marked the screen displays:

"Reactor marked for deconstruction by <name>" right in the center of the screen.
Title: Are you shure U want to deconn the Reactor, Dude? Dialogue
Post by: kevlarman on August 05, 2007, 08:15:51 pm
Quote from: "yetshi"
Quote from: "Vector_Matt"
Quote from: "tuple"
mark deconstruct

 nuff said
But that doesn't prevent a griefer from marking it, and building it half-way around the map from the humans' base.


easy enough.

when marked the screen displays:

"Reactor marked for deconstruction by <name>" right in the center of the screen.

Code: [Select]
Reactor marked for deconstruction by <name>
Reactor unmarked by <name>
Reactor marked for deconstruction by <name>
Reactor unmarked by <name>
Reactor marked for deconstruction by <name>
Reactor unmarked by <name>
Reactor marked for deconstruction by <name>
Reactor unmarked by <name>
Reactor marked for deconstruction by <name>
Reactor unmarked by <name>
Reactor marked for deconstruction by <name>
Reactor unmarked by <name>
Reactor marked for deconstruction by <name>
Reactor unmarked by <name>
Reactor marked for deconstruction by <name>
Reactor unmarked by <name>
Reactor marked for deconstruction by <name>
Reactor unmarked by <name>
Reactor marked for deconstruction by <name>
Reactor unmarked by <name>
Reactor marked for deconstruction by <name>
Reactor unmarked by <name>
Reactor marked for deconstruction by <name>
Reactor unmarked by <name>
Reactor marked for deconstruction by <name>
Reactor unmarked by <name>
Reactor marked for deconstruction by <name>
Reactor unmarked by <name>
<half the server drops>
Title: Are you shure U want to deconn the Reactor, Dude? Dialogue
Post by: Nux on August 05, 2007, 08:52:56 pm
well the first few messages can stay, then if it goes further than that (in a short space of time), display
Code: [Select]
<name> is amusing himself with the Reactor
Title: Are you shure U want to deconn the Reactor, Dude? Dialogue
Post by: yetshi on August 06, 2007, 10:17:18 am
Quote from: "kevlarman"
Quote from: "yetshi"
Quote from: "Vector_Matt"
Quote from: "tuple"
mark deconstruct

 nuff said
But that doesn't prevent a griefer from marking it, and building it half-way around the map from the humans' base.


easy enough.

when marked the screen displays:

"Reactor marked for deconstruction by <name>" right in the center of the screen.

Code: [Select]
Reactor marked for deconstruction by <name>
Reactor unmarked by <name>
Reactor marked for deconstruction by <name>
Reactor unmarked by <name>
Reactor marked for deconstruction by <name>
Reactor unmarked by <name>
Reactor marked for deconstruction by <name>
Reactor unmarked by <name>
Reactor marked for deconstruction by <name>
Reactor unmarked by <name>
Reactor marked for deconstruction by <name>
Reactor unmarked by <name>
Reactor marked for deconstruction by <name>
Reactor unmarked by <name>
Reactor marked for deconstruction by <name>
Reactor unmarked by <name>
Reactor marked for deconstruction by <name>
Reactor unmarked by <name>
Reactor marked for deconstruction by <name>
Reactor unmarked by <name>
Reactor marked for deconstruction by <name>
Reactor unmarked by <name>
Reactor marked for deconstruction by <name>
Reactor unmarked by <name>
Reactor marked for deconstruction by <name>
Reactor unmarked by <name>
Reactor marked for deconstruction by <name>
Reactor unmarked by <name>
<half the server drops>


<name> Denybuild by console after the 3rd time.
Title: Are you shure U want to deconn the Reactor, Dude? Dialogue
Post by: Nux on August 06, 2007, 02:52:03 pm
I prefer my solution. It's similar but I included a mention of time-period and didn't make the result permanent for that match. Your suggestion is sort of like muting people for the rest of the match for flooding after they've said their fifth thing of the match (regardless of the many minutes the utterances were seperated by and that they were accidental anyway).
Title: Are you shure U want to deconn the Reactor, Dude? Dialogue
Post by: holyknight on August 08, 2007, 05:34:22 am
Quote from: "techhead"
I moved decon to the 'R' key, and reload to the 'E' key. Keeps that dangerous button away from my WASD. It also makes reloading easier.

nah won't work for me. I'm just too accostumed to the R button after playing CSS for so long...

that dialouge will make you feel bad... what if you are told to do it and you want to live, so you say no and get chastised and banned?

And what if you hvae to decon really quickly but is delayed by the "yes, no" dialouge.
Title: Are you shure U want to deconn the Reactor, Dude? Dialogue
Post by: Nux on August 08, 2007, 02:42:32 pm
Solution: The dialogue pauses the game.. FOR EVERYONE. That's less disruptive!

Unless you're suggesting forcing this dialogue upon everyone, this can already be done with some cleverly placed binds.
Title: Are you shure U want to deconn the Reactor, Dude? Dialogue
Post by: Wootsicle on August 18, 2007, 06:42:31 am
When someone decides to decon the OM/Reactor, it should automatically notify every person on the team and allow them to deny the person's ability to do so. The vote should stay on their screen for 10 seconds, and if more than half the team votes to deny the ability to decon, the decon should fail.

Just a nifty idea.
Title: Are you shure U want to deconn the Reactor, Dude? Dialogue
Post by: ShadowNinjaDudeMan on August 18, 2007, 11:42:11 am
But what abou8t these really quiock huried decons and moves?

The god ones,t he, sav ethe match ones?

There wouldnt be any.
Title: Are you shure U want to deconn the Reactor, Dude? Dialogue
Post by: Nux on August 18, 2007, 05:04:15 pm
Quote from: "Wootsicle"
When someone decides to decon the OM/Reactor, it should automatically notify every person on the team and allow them to deny the person's ability to do so. The vote should stay on their screen for 10 seconds, and if more than half the team votes to deny the ability to decon, the decon should fail.

Just a nifty idea.


So when the rest of the team is too busy to vote, that all important move would be needlessly delayed. It could cost the team ten seconds of opportunity time. Also, if the deconning builder has to stay still during the vote, this could get him killed. If he can move during the vote, this could be abused to make a 'remote decon' similar to that in the new build system (to which I am opposed).

Ultimately, measures like this place less faith in the individual to do his part. An important part of teamwork is trusting your teammates.
Title: Are you shure U want to deconn the Reactor, Dude? Dialogue
Post by: The Reverend on August 20, 2007, 07:26:13 am
Well why not just give your team a 10 sec chance to vote no if they don't vote no the om can be deconed.  No need for the the team to vote yes.  This would just be implemented to stop bad builders or deconners.
Title: Are you shure U want to deconn the Reactor, Dude? Dialogue
Post by: temple on August 20, 2007, 07:28:25 am
Quote from: "The Reverend"
Well why not just give your team a 10 sec chance to vote no if they don't vote no the om can be deconed.  No need for the the team to vote yes.  This would just be implemented to stop bad builders or deconners.

That's my idea.
Title: Are you shure U want to deconn the Reactor, Dude? Dialogue
Post by: n00b pl0x on August 20, 2007, 07:39:38 am
really how many building patches do we need

denybuild

dont decon last spawn

autokick

designate

vote to decon

mark decon

make up mind pls ffs
Title: Are you shure U want to deconn the Reactor, Dude? Dialogue
Post by: Nux on August 20, 2007, 10:38:29 am
Quote from: "The Reverend"
Well why not just give your team a 10 sec chance to vote no if they don't vote no the om can be deconed.  No need for the the team to vote yes.  This would just be implemented to stop bad builders or deconners.


That solves the first problem, but doesn't affect any of the others I stated. Also, with your proposed system, there's no chance for a speedy decon that the other system allows for when all vote yes very fast.
Title: Are you shure U want to deconn the Reactor, Dude? Dialogue
Post by: Werewulf on August 20, 2007, 12:02:57 pm
It obviously wont stop those who decon to piss people off. But I think deconning rc or om need to be off a diff button or yes, a popup as I accidentally did it once and ..boy..did people want to bite me..
Title: Are you shure U want to deconn the Reactor, Dude? Dialogue
Post by: tuple on August 20, 2007, 12:45:14 pm
Sometimes OM/RC decon timing is critical, waiting 10 seconds for a no vote, for you to explain all over again why someone shouldn't have put RC next to a door, then wait for the vote as the aliens turn s3 can be bad. :P

Marked Decon clears all this up though.  No more standing next to RC, fumbling over e and then t, OhShiot! :P
Title: Are you shure U want to deconn the Reactor, Dude? Dialogue
Post by: Nux on August 20, 2007, 02:00:20 pm
Quote from: "tuple"
Marked Decon clears all this up though.  No more standing next to RC, fumbling over e and then t, OhShiot! :P


It doesn't clear up all my problems >:(
Title: Re: Are you shure U want to deconn the Reactor, Dude? Dialogue
Post by: Werewulf on December 12, 2007, 02:35:19 pm
it sucks when you accidentally decon when you try to repair the rc...
Title: Re: Are you shure U want to deconn the Reactor, Dude? Dialogue
Post by: daenyth on December 12, 2007, 02:43:59 pm
!denybuild is enough. Greifers will find ways to abuse ANY system, because if you lock it down too much you end up hurting the good players more than the decon would have in the first place.

Case in point is the patch preventing you from deconning the last spawn. It's obnoxious, especially on ATCS as human, instead of deconning nodes and moving them, I have to first decon the armory or turrets to make room for a 2nd node, then decon the node I wanted to move, build it where I need it, then decon the other one. I've had this happen multiple times, as it comes with one base design I use. I know markdecon would make it easier, but it too has its bad points.

On a secondary note, I would like to see a patch for markdecon that allows old-style deconning along with the new. Markdecon is usually better, but there are times when it really sucks. Perhaps a different command? /decon_now or something.
Title: Re: Are you shure U want to deconn the Reactor, Dude? Dialogue
Post by: jr2 on December 12, 2007, 04:32:09 pm
I moved decon to the 'R' key, and reload to the 'E' key. Keeps that dangerous button away from my WASD. It also makes reloading easier.

I put E as sprint, X as decon.  And I use WASD with my fingers in home row typing position.  XD  (I suppose I could try using WASD sort of like a left-handed cursor key pad, but IDK how that would go...)

On a secondary note, I would like to see a patch for markdecon that allows old-style deconning along with the new. Markdecon is usually better, but there are times when it really sucks. Perhaps a different command? /decon_now or something.

This, I want as well.  :yes:
Title: Re: Are you shure U want to deconn the Reactor, Dude? Dialogue
Post by: Troy1 on December 12, 2007, 09:10:13 pm
After the RC was deconned, there is a 10 seconds vote for yes/no. If some part of a team voted no, the RC is being restored in the initial place and the deconned guy is being denybuilded + any of the structures deconned/destroyed by him after RC decon are restored as well.

I still prefer the default setup though.