Tremulous Forum

Community => Strategies and Tactics => Topic started by: daenyth on December 10, 2007, 05:38:22 pm

Title: Tips for newbies
Post by: daenyth on December 10, 2007, 05:38:22 pm
Let's get some tips from more experienced players in here.
This first post will be modified and kept up-to-date with suggestions from the community.
This topic is under construction! More to come soon!


Quick links


:helmet: Humans :battlesuit:

Your first purchase should usually be a helmet.
If you buy a gun but not a helmet, because "you don't have enough money", you are being a RETARD.
The bottom line is that ANY human with Helmet + Armor + Rifle will do MORE damage than any human with an expensive gun and no armor.

When you are stage 1, you should avoid buying guns if the enemies have no evolved. Rifle is a fine weapon. When the aliens have a dragoon, buy armor to avoid getting instant-killed from pounce.

To save money: Shotgun + helmet + armor is the BEST combination for credit savings. Average goon vs this combo means the goon will die. It can also be effective against tyrants; ~3 shotgunners vs an average tyrant is a dead tyrant.


:dragoon: Aliens :tyrant:



:overmind: Building :reactor:

If the game is moving slowly and you are afraid to leave the base, Grab a ckit and repair! When I was new at the game I knew I sucked at fighting, so I built every game. Your team can have great attackers, but as human OR alien, you are doomed without a good base. Study designs, figure out how things work, and learn from good builders. Keep in mind that most servers have around 100BP, so playing on SST will give you HORRIBLE habits.

For grangers: Acid tube damage is based on HOW CLOSE the humans are, and has NOTHING to do with the animation! This means that acid tubes on very high ceilings are almost always bad!

Trappers have a cone-shaped line of sight. They are most effective when slightly above the door facing down, or on the wall facing sideways near foot-chest level. Trappers can be the most important defensive structure, if used properly. Trappers are useless when placed on the floor.
 
For building on either team, I have found some things about good bases.
Don't block your teammates with buildables! For humans, this means making sure there is a FOOTPATH through your turrets. If your teammate has to jump, it is NOT a great design. Mostly when people run back to base they are wounded, and low on stamina. Having to wait those 1-2 seconds to refill can mean that they DIE. For aliens it means making sure that your tyrants can get anywhere inside the base to defend. An example of a bad building is a hovel on the ATCS ramp, because it makes it VERY hard for tyrants to defend the overmind!

Human and alien bases have differant strategies! For humans, you want a base that doesn't lend itself to being sniped out, and making sure that alien attack paths are well covered with damaging items. For aliens, I've found the good bases try to slow humans down more than damage them.

Bases with one door are almost always bad. The phrase "Make your stronghold too hard to get into and you will never get out" comes to mind.

Erm... One recommandation:Newbies should not build! Get some fighting experience first to realize how the game works. Building is something quite sophisticated that requires a deeper understanding of the game, newbies should not do it. A bad base can ruin the whole game. A team full of superb players will kiss the ground goodbye when a noob places the reactor next to the entrance or moves the reactor the time the gun turrets are needed most, et cetera.


Binds



Improving as a player

Listen to players who are better than you! I can't stress this enough.

Another point I've thought of is that you can learn from spectating good players. By doing so, you can learn their habits, movement patterns, etc.

Learning how to build makes you a better attacker. If you understand what makes a good base, you can spot the weak points of a bad base and exploit them.

Teamwork is very important in tremulous. Some might even say it's the most important.


General tips

Your base should almost ALWAYS have at least one person guarding it at all times. Sometimes this means you miss out on frontline action, but it can make the difference between losing and winning.

Communicate with your team! If your enemy has staged up, let them know. If there is a grenade, let them know so they can dodge it. If your base is being attacked, let them know. If you are planning to move the base, let them know!

Camping can be a good strategy sometimes, but if you do it ALL the time, you will lose Trem takes a balanced mix of offense and defense to win.

If you are feeding, then stay near your base instead of running out so much! 90% of the time, this is true. however, in some VERY specific cases, feeding can be a useful strategy. If you don't KNOW when it's good, don't do it.

My overall tipp to newbies (because I am one myself and learning to play the game more and more):

The amount of offensive gameplay is directly proportional to your skills.

If you know nothing, stay behind and wait for some target practise, if you start to become better, join a group of your buddies for raids, if you are a superhero, then you may lead the attack. There are also servers with bots on them. try those. If you are alien, you can learn headbites, if you are human, you can get some excellent target practise. I played about 30min today on a bot-server, then I ceased playing that "simulated game"  ;D and joined a "real game" [oh boy, what a word  :D) and shot down ten dretches, where I usually shot down, erm, one or two more by accident then on purpose.

I know it seems a bit dull to put so much effort when you just want to play, want to have fun, but without any skills, you can't enjoy it, I think.


I think noobs should try all sort of things, and should do all mistakes. that's the best way to learn.
and that's why are noobs sorted if they want to play the game or leave it.

so nade base once, accidently decon reac once, feed till u get skills, get kicked occasionally, and so on. better gamers will warn you if u act stupid anyway so you can learn from them. at the same time they will promote their ars poetica also...
like if you build a trapper on floor they will laugh they ass off and yell at you so you won't do that again.

let's don't talk like there are hundred thousands of nubz out there, because they are only a small bunch of people who are playing trem. and we should keep them to make the community stronger and more fun.

To those who accuse me of being an asshole, I only do it to people who don't listen. If I'm being a dick to you, you are very likely doing something wrong. In general, If you are polite, and ASK for help, explaining that you are new, most players will help


Terminology



Links to learn more


Title: Re: Tips for newbies
Post by: HamStar on December 10, 2007, 07:12:47 pm
Nice guide, could potentially help the very new to 2 week players.
Title: Re: Tips for newbies
Post by: zybork on December 11, 2007, 01:18:01 am
Erm... One recommandation:Newbies should not build! Get some fighting experience first to realize how the game works. Building is something quite sophisticated that requires a deeper understanding of the game, newbies should not do it. A bad base can ruin the whole game. A team full of superb players will kiss the ground goodbye when a noob places the reactor next to the entrance or moves the reactor the time the gun turrets are needed most, et cetera.

My overall tipp to newbies (because I am one myself and learning to play the game more and more):

The amount of offensive gameplay is directly proportional to your skills.

If you know nothing, stay behind and wait for some target practise, if you start to become better, join a group of your buddies for raids, if you are a superhero, then you may lead the attack. There are also servers with bots on them. try those. If you are alien, you can learn headbites, if you are human, you can get some excellent target practise. I played about 30min today on a bot-server, then I ceased playing that "simulated game"  ;D and joined a "real game" [oh boy, what a word  :D) and shot down ten dretches, where I usually shot down, erm, one or two more by accident then on purpose.

I know it seems a bit dull to put so much effort when you just want to play, want to have fun, but without any skills, you can't enjoy it, I think.
Title: Re: Tips for newbies
Post by: + OPTIMUS + on December 11, 2007, 03:53:28 pm

I think noobs should try all sort of things, and should do all mistakes. that's the best way to learn.
and that's why are noobs sorted if they want to play the game or leave it.

so nade base once, accidently decon reac once, feed till u get skills, get kicked occasionally, and so on. better gamers will warn you if u act stupid anyway so you can learn from them. at the same time they will promote their ars poetica also...
like if you build a trapper on floor they will laugh they ass off and yell at you so you won't do that again.

let's don't talk like there are hundred thousands of nubz out there, because they are only a small bunch of people who are playing trem. and we should keep them to make the community stronger and more fun.
Title: Re: Tips for newbies
Post by: daenyth on December 11, 2007, 06:15:43 pm
(Post removed and merged with first post)
Title: Re: Tips for newbies
Post by: Ildamos on December 12, 2007, 10:53:09 am
Newbie here. What is feeding? There are so many terms and strats not on the manual...  ???
Title: Re: Tips for newbies
Post by: Knowitall66 on December 12, 2007, 11:00:11 am
Feeding - Basically is letting the enemy kill you many times. You may not do it intionally but people can get nasty about it.
Title: Re: Tips for newbies
Post by: Ildamos on December 12, 2007, 11:25:21 am
Ah. Thanks.

This is a flaw in the game --- mayhap servers won't be noob-friendly because of this? Because newbies WILL die more often.

Also: "in some VERY specific cases, feeding can be a useful strategy. "

How? I fail to see that.

Thanks for the reply!
Title: Re: Tips for newbies
Post by: Troy1 on December 12, 2007, 11:45:16 am
Feeding can be a strategy on a pub servers. Usually if you fail to lure the humans out of their base for a LONG while it can be useful to give them S2, hence they will be more encouraged to come out, and considering their skill level (-> 0 due to such camping) even hs3 with as1 will bring aliens a fast S3, since bsuits will be dretchswarmed.

There are quite a few more guides lying around in this section which you might want to read as well, since this one is just a common sense with a bit of info.

Good thing is to look for the weapon damages (stikie), might even try to read my own huge post about human weps (==Troy=='s guide to something... dont remember the actual name), which I still need to  finish of and rework.
Title: Re: Tips for newbies
Post by: daenyth on December 12, 2007, 12:18:48 pm
Feeding is most effective on uncreation when humans are competent and attacking with s2 or s3, and aliens don't have s3 yet. Make many eggs, booster if you can, and just hit them so much that they have to return to their base for hp. You may die 5 times to one kill, but once you hit s3 you can turn the tables. Make sure your team knows what you're doing though, as some people may not realize this is useful.

One way to avoid feeding as a human is to use buy/sell binds at the armory. These are great for many reasons; one, you don't have to use the menus, you can just hit a button a buy your stuff. Also, it means you don't have to stand still unable to fight! Similarly, alien evolve binds are great because you don't have to go through the menu and can evolve on the run, in midair, and more. One nice trick on karith is to be dretch above the default reactor, drop down, evolve in midair to a tyrant, land on the RC, and go to town.
Title: Re: Tips for newbies
Post by: daenyth on December 12, 2007, 12:26:03 pm
Newbie here. What is feeding? There are so many terms and strats not on the manual...  ???

You bring up a great point. Later today when I have time I will write up some terms and such.
Title: Re: Tips for newbies
Post by: Troy1 on December 12, 2007, 12:33:01 pm
Feeding is most effective on uncreation when humans are competent and attacking with s2 or s3, and aliens don't have s3 yet. Make many eggs, booster if you can, and just hit them so much that they have to return to their base for hp. You may die 5 times to one kill, but once you hit s3 you can turn the tables. Make sure your team knows what you're doing though, as some people may not realize this is useful.

when as1 faces hs3 there is NO such defenition as feeding. Its a survival, a single dretch cannot kill a bsuit (average skills), and having your whole team as dretches will force you to attack as that class. Especially knowing that a goon will be just killed on sight.

Feeding is generally a death which is clearly disadvantages your team. If you go out in ATCS into the corridor when it is as1 with hs1 and feed the pro-rifle 10 times is going to be called a feed. But if you do the same thing, trying to hold lucy from getting to your base, is going to be called DEFENCE not feed.

Generally feeding :
1) A death that could have been easily prevented
2) Which leads to a significant disbalance between teams
3) Meaning that it is either helps opponent to advance in stage, or gain credits/evos, which they undoubtedly need. (hs3 naked human with rifle)
4) Which is in no way a defense, such as slowing down human rush, trying to cover the base etc.

But is nowhere the "dretchstorm" technique which is the only way to survive with as1 against hs3
Title: Re: Tips for newbies
Post by: daenyth on December 12, 2007, 02:01:56 pm
Good point. It's not quite feeding then. :)

Another point I've thought of is that you can learn from spectating good players. By doing so, you can learn their habits, movement patterns, etc.

Learning how to build makes you a better attacker. If you understand what makes a good base, you can spot the weak points of a bad base and exploit them.

I think I might start modding my first post to organize it and include tips from other people. Anyone have any thoughts on that? Should I do it or leave the thread as it is?

Could a mod please sticky this thread? I'll maintain it.
Title: Re: Tips for newbies
Post by: Lava Croft on December 12, 2007, 04:13:39 pm
Stickied under the condition that this thread stay clean of the usual insulting. It should be a help for newbies, not a showcase of how some Tremulous people have slight communicative problems.
Title: Re: Tips for newbies
Post by: daenyth on December 12, 2007, 04:21:51 pm
Stickied under the condition that this thread stay clean of the usual insulting. It should be a help for newbies, not a showcase of how some Tremulous people have slight communicative problems.

Thanks! I'll try my best.
Title: Re: Tips for newbies
Post by: Troy1 on December 12, 2007, 09:33:33 pm
About weapons and alien classes:

Things you need to learn by using /devmap :

How to run it : type /devmap atcs  in the console (`) to enter a "cheat" mode in your server.
What commands to use : /g_alienstage 0-2 /g_humanstage 0-2  /give funds /god
What to practise :

Aliens :

1) wallwalking. Try to accommodate your sensors to the ability to wallwalk and an abundant change of screen orientation. In the most advance try to look at one point, while wallwalking from ceiling to walls, floor, back on ceiling + strafing. If you can do that reasonably good, then you are there with wallwalking for online game.

2) pouncing. Learn how to pounce. Also learn how to pounce fast, meaning that you charge the second pounce WHILE you are still in the air from the first one.

3) BunnyHopping. Easy to explain, jump as dretch and repress and hold the spacebar, you will notice that you will jump second time immediately after you land. Now do that while pushing forward key. And finally press forward key, a direction key (left-right) orient yourself that the final vector is still forward and jump, while in the jump change the direction key to an opposite one and repeat. You will soon notice the acceleration you gain with this method. can save your life sometimes. Usefull with dretches, grangers, basis and marauders.

4) Minor things such as tyrant charging control (do not get stuck in the walls, build a barricade and learn to make a few circles around it without hitting it or walls)

Humans :

1) Lucy charge. there are 2 important things :
     1) Cancelling your charge : Altfire! immediately altfire if you see that you are going to do something bad with it, the charge is going to be cancelled and only smaller lucyball is being released, which deals 27 damage. The way to do it is : you are holding left button. You realised that you dont want to shoot. KEEP pressing left button. Press right button briefly and immediately release BOTH buttons.
     2) Getting to a FullCharge (FC). Fullcharge takes 10 ammo and deals 250 (255) damage. Just stand near armory/reac/rep and try to get 15 FCs from luy in a row. If you will make it, then you are fine with lucying goons.

... some things to add, but these are the general ideas.
Title: Re: Tips for newbies
Post by: daenyth on December 12, 2007, 09:38:19 pm
Good tips troy.

I learned wallwalking by practicing with the speed (in options) set slower, then bumped myself to walking faster once I was used to it.

You can also improve your reaction time by making your mouse more sensitive, by using the \sensitivity command. I like aliens at 35 and humans around 27. You should start off with something like 10-15, then once you are comfortable make it higher. Sensitivity helps you because you can turn around quicker. Have you ever followed someone and seen them do a 180 to shoot at you immediately? They had high sensitivity.

Also, it's worth practicing stealthy movement as alien. Lean what makes noises. (jumping, slashing, walking). For all classes, you can walk instead of run by holding shift (default) and it will make you walk slower, but silently. This is also useful with the bsuit.
Title: Re: Tips for newbies
Post by: St. Anger on December 12, 2007, 10:47:28 pm
Good tips troy.

I learned wallwalking by practicing with the speed (in options) set slower, then bumped myself to walking faster once I was used to it.

You can also improve your reaction time by making your mouse more sensitive, by using the \sensitivity command. I like aliens at 35 and humans around 27. You should start off with something like 10-15, then once you are comfortable make it higher. Sensitivity helps you because you can turn around quicker. Have you ever followed someone and seen them do a 180 to shoot at you immediately? They had high sensitivity.

Also, it's worth practicing stealthy movement as alien. Lean what makes noises. (jumping, slashing, walking). For all classes, you can walk instead of run by holding shift (default) and it will make you walk slower, but silently. This is also useful with the bsuit.

You shouldn't tell people what sensitivity to use since we don't all have the same mouse as you.
Title: Re: Tips for newbies
Post by: daenyth on December 12, 2007, 11:13:14 pm
Good point. When I add it to the main part I'll make that edit. I'm *fairly* sure that those numbers would have similar results as long as you're using the same Xorg driver though. YMMV.
Title: Re: Tips for newbies
Post by: Troy1 on December 13, 2007, 12:10:48 am
8 for humans and 12 for aliens here, high dps mouse. if you set windows sen. higher the values will not change in trem but the sen. will increase.

better say :
'have your sen. in the limits:
human :
make sure crosshair does not miss out pixels (jump)
your complete palm twist should be 120 seg, and complete arm twist 720 deg


for aliens 240 and 1080.

(Edited spelling, its hard to type all of this on PPC)
Title: Re: Tips for newbies
Post by: Metsjeesus on December 14, 2007, 10:10:16 am
Usually, if i play on new servers and in human side, i must get lasgun and shoot walls abit to see how big is lag. You should then get slight idea how much further you must aim to make hits. It really helps against dretches.
Title: Re: Tips for newbies
Post by: daenyth on December 14, 2007, 04:26:45 pm
Usually, if i play on new servers and in human side, i must get lasgun and shoot walls abit to see how big is lag. You should then get slight idea how much further you must aim to make hits. It really helps against dretches.

Very useful and creative! You can also see if the server has unlag (and more), by clicking server info, and looking for "g_unlagged 1"
Title: Re: Tips for newbies
Post by: HamStar on December 14, 2007, 06:34:59 pm
Movement

Keep moving, especially if you're an alien. ince aliens are melee fighters, you're pretty much screwed if a human sees you. If you're a human, its just as hard for you if you don't have a helmet, due to the alien's advantage of an in built radar.

For aliens, use your wallwalk and jump, as well as your speed to out manouvre the enemy's sight and where possible, set up an ambush for the humans instead of running headlong into death. If a human spots you, try to engage them in a random format, getting ever closer to them while dodging their attacks. A bigger alien such as the dragoon should have the phsycological advantage as it can take plenty of hits before dying. If you're a dragoon or bigger and a human is dancing you, try to predict their movements and get in their way. This should give you time to attack while they readjust their movements, saving a you precious seconds to heal after you have killed them.

For humans, your movements depend solely on the type of attacker you're facing. If they are small and running straight at you, simply jump or circle them while raining down death on their bodies. If they are bigger aliens who run at you, do the same but don't jump. When facing the larger aliens such as the marauder who can't wallwalk, if they are jumping, crouch. In conjunction with doing this, continue to fire into their bodies. The much bigger aliens (dragoons onwards), unless they run at you, stand a much better chance than you at winning, so its best to just circle them, using the walls to your advantage until you have done enough damage for them to run away, kill you or be killed by your teammates. Bear in mind that these movement tactics will only last you for so long, so don't forget to bring a friend with you ;)

PS: Sorry for the essay, I just type alot :D
Title: Re: Tips for newbies
Post by: daenyth on December 16, 2007, 01:14:00 pm
Hey, don't apologize! Great contribution.

When I'm feeling less lazy, I'll add it to the first post.
Title: Re: Tips for newbies
Post by: conqueror on December 26, 2007, 12:17:40 am
Very good topic  :).

(I can help for the binds ;) )
Title: Re: Tips for newbies
Post by: Sanity on December 30, 2007, 10:31:14 pm
Quote
Your base should almost ALWAYS have at least one person guarding it at all times. Sometimes this means you miss out on frontline action, but it can make the difference between losing and winning.

Ahh, games so easy won on s3 humans when they forget to guard their base.
Goon + no human defenders = dead humans.
Title: Re: Tips for newbies
Post by: UniqPhoeniX on February 04, 2008, 03:43:44 pm
Add a section about default controls, if possible a poll about which section was most helpful to new players.

To try and learn without annoying others, write '/devmap atcs' in console; then for stage 3 use '/g_humanstage 2' and '/g_alienstage 2'; for credits/evos use '/give funds [amount]'; invulnerability is '/god'. If you are building, you might want to try '/cg_drawBBOX 1'. This shows the hitboxes = size of structures (and other players in servers where cheats are allowed). '/g_humanbuildpoins [amount]' and '/g_alienbuildpoins [amount]'.

Options:
Disable Warning dialogs - if you know all warning dialogs and what causes them, you can turn this on.
Tutorial mode - after you have learned all weapons, upgrades & classes, you can turn this off.
Wallwalking speed - set how fast you want camera to turn when you are wallwalking.
Auto wallwalk pitching - set if camera turns if you wallwalk from one surface to another on a different angle.

Add Tremwiki.com to links.
Title: Re: Tips for newbies
Post by: daenyth on February 17, 2008, 05:29:28 pm
Sorry that I haven't really been updating lately. It's on my todo list... eventually. If anyone else wants to add something, I can paste it in if you take the time to format it.
Title: Re: Tips for newbies
Post by: + OPTIMUS + on February 18, 2008, 06:25:03 am
we should make some short youtube video series to povide easy-access tutorials maybe. i'm in with the visuals if needed.
Title: Re: Tips for newbies
Post by: Despairation on February 18, 2008, 03:41:38 pm
Yeah, that would be a good idea, but it might be kinda hard to get that organized.
Title: Re: Tips for newbies
Post by: + OPTIMUS + on February 18, 2008, 04:33:43 pm
well, the text is here, someone should make it shorter and inculde maybe 1.2 rules, and we would need some demos maybe.
i could do design issues, that's how i could help, or with some minimalist animation.

i guess a youtube video would make the game easy to understand.
Title: Re: Tips for newbies
Post by: Metsjeesus on February 20, 2008, 01:10:14 pm
Its really making me pissed of, special in ATCS. Get a gun jump into mouth of nearby tyrs, repeat 10 times. And guess who must kill those tyrs you feed? 2-3 players who TEAM.

If you are human and go out alone, no matter what weapon you have or what aliens you may see, you are dead and aliens surive and got stronger.

If you are human then use best possible armor you can buy and after that buy rifle, shotgun or chaingun. All other weapons are used in special cases.

Lucyfer cannon has 2 uses, get some time to build/repair something or destroy alien structures. None of them is "killing big ones". So if you kill aliens with it, you kill mostly your teammates or stuctures.

If you still dont get previous one, camping with lucy ends killing your teammates.

If you are in team, better die trying then die without trying to kill. That means, you go to back to base only if your team is safe. 

if you are not a builder, no matter what armor or weapon you have, if you stay on turret and see backside of a outrunning tyrant, run and kill it.
Title: Re: Tips for newbies
Post by: HamStar on February 20, 2008, 06:24:46 pm
Mets, I agree with some of your points and disagree with others.

Firstly: Yes, you shouldn't jump into a Tyrant's mouth. You should try to weaken and kill them as a team.

Secondly: No, death is not certain if you go out alone. Depending on your playstyle, you could pick off smaller aliens with accurate weapons and rip them to shreds with a chaingun or flamethrower (*shudder*). The same is true for bigger ones, but with reduced chances unless the opposing player's have little skill.

Thirdly: Actually, this is another playstyle thing. Some people prefer to have a warning from the radar than the defence afforded by the Battlesuit, and a light armour + Helmet combination is much cheaper (160c VS 400c). Do not use the rifle if you have enough credits for other weapons, as this is a waste of armour and credits if you die.

Fourthly: Although I agree with the 2 uses, your third point is false. You can actually kill "big ones" if you put enough timing and aim into your shots and unless you're camping, you likely won't have a big chance of killing teammates or destroying structures.

Fithly: Again, killing teammates and structures is only possible if you are aiming at them, they run into the shot or if the alien you were shooting at had moved out of the way of the shot, which incidently heads for your base. Also, you may also do that if your Lucifer Cannon Overcharges or your shot hits an alien and the splash damage spreads to your base and team.

Sixthly: Unless the enemy is already at stage 3, this is a bad idea. To "die trying" adds to their stage counter, giving them a big advantage in the game. This method should only be used if your death saves the lives of your teammates and stops them from adding to the stage counter. Also, you can't go back to base if you have "died trying" but your team is safe there.

Finally: The same as with the sixth point, because if the Tyrant is running away and did not emit a scream of pain, then chances are that when you chase it, it will most certainly attack you or charge back to base faster than you can take it down.

Thats all justmy opinion though, so don't trust everything I just said.
Title: Re: Tips for newbies
Post by: Metsjeesus on February 21, 2008, 10:24:14 am
Mets, I agree with some of your points and disagree with others.


You are completely right about it, but you miss one thing, those tips are not for newbies. Let me explain.

If you go alone, you will die and give strength to alien. At beginning, you give evos to make goons, goons make slaughter. At s2, better equipment, more evos, more goons. s3 vs s3, probably you are dead at next corner. Basicly, Dont go alone!!!

Mostly, you know that behind that corner is a tyrant or goon, radar wont help much to kill it. Battlesuit is important, because you can survive 3 hits from it. If you team, thats should give enough time to your teammates to kill that tyrant. Probably you die, but tyr dies too.  Helm and armor give 2 hits. Thats something, but its 33%  protection less then battlesuit.

Again, lucyguy near base is only useful if base needs repairs, it gives time but rarely kills some bigger ones. Newbie cant kill a tyr or even goon with it, exept he has a lucky hit what happens sometimes too. A lucyguy in team can be effective, but often he spams half-charged lucyballs in middle of team damaging everything in it. It means 3 humans and 1 alien. You should release full charged lucy ball when your nose meets tyrs nose and let the teammates do the rest. Newbies cant do that with lucy.

If you camp with lucy, you accidently kill teammates/structures. Take a chaingun, you do more damage to aliens and less to your team.

Well, its really make me mad, when 4 rifleguned unarmed humans run to base to heal and equip, while i must fight with my chaingun and battlesuit a tyrant. just empty your damn rifle and we all safe.

And last option, I tried that strategy today. And it works extrem well. Mostly, if alien shows backside, then he retreats and is more or less damaged. You probably make 100-150 damage to them what can be enough to kill it. If 2 people do the same, its certain death. Either way, its mostly worth to try, even if you die after that.
Title: Re: Tips for newbies
Post by: HamStar on February 21, 2008, 05:14:26 pm
Actually, I did know that those tips were for newbies. In your post, you talked first about feeding tyrants and now, you talk about dragoons. Since Tyrants mean that Stage 3 has already been reached, feeding will just usher in the inevitable to either team. I do agree about not going alone though, even if halfway to the enemy's base your team may decide to go back to your base instead.

For your second sentence, as well as the aforementioned caution/warning, looking at this scoring mechanics thread (http://tremulous.net/forum/index.php?topic=830.0) thread reinforces my view, as 160c counts as 1 evo point while 400c is 2 evos. This could mean the difference between an Advanced Dragoon and a Tyrant, which if you have a decent camper team that can aim, is a godsend as the Dragoon could be shot to death if it tried to snipe or pounce the base, whereas the Tyrant could take much more damage before succumbing to your team and base.

I retract my statement for the "lucyguy" in light of the newbie factor, but if the newbie had the sense to read the manual (http://www.tremulous.net/manual/#x1-80002.2.1), he might have known to try and predict where the enemy would be  to overcome the "slow moving projectile" problem.

Again, if the newbie were to have read the manual and predicted where the aliens would go, they could deal great damage to them faster with the Lucifer Cannon than the inaccurate Chaingun.

Actually, if you get killed with a ChainSuit combo, you give out 3 evos according to the Scoring mechanics, although I'm not sure if the Tyrant gets less (2 maybe?), it would have been the same as 2 or 3 of your naked team dying, which is worthless.

For the last one, could you clarify for me what strategy you tried? Are you referring to your own
Quote from: Metsjeesus
if you are not a builder, no matter what armor or weapon you have, if you stay on turret and see backside of a outrunning tyrant, run and kill it
or my own "if its not screaming then don't go for it" strategy?
Title: Re: Tips for newbies
Post by: mooseberry on February 22, 2008, 09:51:06 pm
For recording videos:

To make a demo, in game open your console by hitting the tilde key (`) and then typing /record [name] (For example /record [^ITC]Master) After you have finished recording, do /stoprecord. This will end your demo. To "convert" this into an actual (but crappy) video, you load up the demo using /demo [name] (/demo [^ITC]Master) and then do in the console /video [name].

The output is a badly encoded .avi
To view your badly encoded .avi, download a progrm called VLC media player (free) as Windows Media Player will believe your video to be corrupt.
You an also just do a direct video movie by bypassing the /demo and skipping to /video (You'll get extremely bad frame rates, essentially unplayable)


I'd suggest using something like FRAPs.
However if you are to poor/cheap/not able to, see above.
^
Legal


Also don't forget to set g_synchronousClients 1 before recording to get a smoother record.
Title: Re: Tips for newbies
Post by: Geni3 on February 23, 2008, 06:42:15 am


Learning how to build makes you a better attacker. If you understand what makes a good base, you can spot the weak points of a bad base and exploit them.



This is also true in reverse, because if you learn how to attack a base, hopefully you realize why you are able to successfully attack it (only 1 turret shooting at time etc.), then when building, you remember what happened when you where attacking and try to prevent it from happening.
Title: Re: Tips for newbies
Post by: maxell on February 23, 2008, 11:56:28 am
i have to say to all noobs that BEFORE you play look up the CONTROLS and also spectate the bext player (on both team) to GET THE HANG of the game... ( it is how i learned to play) and i became a clan leader in a little amount of time (compared to some other players)... so noobs BEFORE YOU PLAY, LEARN HOW TO PLAY!!!!!! and i can't stress this enough also specating/following a good players is THE most (or somewhere the the MOST) efficent way to learn how to play and to be good ( if you a good copycat then you good at that) also doing mistakes is also a good way... but don't do it to often or you will  build a pretty bad reputation on yourself.
Title: Re: Tips for newbies
Post by: daenyth on February 25, 2008, 02:46:16 pm
Thanks for everyone who is contributing. I really appreciate the time you're taking for a (mostly) thankless cause. I'm glad to say that I've finally got all my graphics issues sorted out, and am now able to play again, so I should be more active in the community. When I have a little spare time to dedicate to the thread I'll try to summarize what people have been saying, and add it to the main post.

That being said, I'm starting to feel the limits of using the forum for this. It doesn't allow a huge range of formatting, and the length of the post might get to be a problem. If anyone has any suggestions, I would really love to hear them. Especially if you have anything to say about my content, whether to add, discuss, or amend. By no means is this set in stone, so if you disagree with something I'm saying, please post and tell me why!
Title: Re: Tips for newbies
Post by: Despairation on February 25, 2008, 05:42:25 pm
If anyone is willing to help us with the video, PM me or + OPTIMUS + on the forums or find me on MSN (in my sig).
Title: Re: Tips for newbies
Post by: daenyth on February 27, 2008, 02:16:17 am
How would you guys feel about TiddlyWiki for this guide? It seems really nice. An example at http://tiddlywiki.com (http://tiddlywiki.com)
Title: Re: Tips for newbies
Post by: mooseberry on February 27, 2008, 04:12:23 am
Go ahead, but the name ruined it.  :-\  :)
Title: Re: Tips for newbies
Post by: player1 on February 27, 2008, 04:20:49 am
@Daenyth: That's a really cool resource, and a darn good idea.
Title: Re: Tips for newbies
Post by: TinMan on February 29, 2008, 03:13:23 am
(http://img151.imageshack.us/img151/1757/f0690198ae6f64f5e722009xe1.jpg)
Title: Re: Tips for newbies
Post by: Valour250 on February 29, 2008, 04:23:40 am
"Improving as a player

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Listen to players who are better than you! I can't stress this enough.

Another point I've thought of is that you can learn from spectating good players. By doing so, you can learn their habits, movement patterns, etc.

Learning how to build makes you a better attacker. If you understand what makes a good base, you can spot the weak points of a bad base and exploit them.

Teamwork is very important in tremulous. Some might even say it's the most important."

ok now this works sometimes but other times your style is completely different and can fuck you up.....  the only time i would change ur strategy was if theres was similar 2 urs otherwise general tips lyk wall walk dont stnad still etc are advisable 2 listen to.....
Title: Re: Tips for newbies
Post by: ChaosSquirrel on April 13, 2008, 11:23:38 pm
I personally recommend a slower FPS, such as Battlefront/Battlefield or a strategy FPS such as Enemy Territory: Quake Wars, for first training. Reason?  :dretch: :dretch: :dretch: :dretch: :dretch: Dretches on roof. This is killer. It takes forever to learn to twitch snipe, but playing another game first helps. Why? Tremulous is MP almost exclusively. As in, it's hard to train. So learn somewhere else first. I hate the noob who lets a single :dretch: feed into a :tyrant: because he can't aim. I recommend Mass Drivers for accuracy and laser weapons for assault. Shotguns are good against  :dretch: but not against  :dragoon:, :basilisk:, or :marauder: because they have more armor and kill quicker (usually). Wear a helmet.  :helmet: is harder to kill than :human:, but  :battlesuit: can be too expensive. As humans, defend the  :armoury:. I play almost exclusively as humans, and most of my losses are because there is no  :armoury: and a  :dragoon: or  :tyrant:.  :turret: are good, but  :tesla: can be more effective.  :turret: in blocks is just annoying. I've lost upwind of 750 cr because some noob builder puts  :turret: across the entire doorway. Which is a pain. Humans should never be without at least one  :medstat:, but don't neglect the  :reactor: or  :repeater:. Also, alien defenses die when the  :overmind: does, so BE CAREFUL!
Title: Re: Tips for newbies
Post by: UniqPhoeniX on April 14, 2008, 12:50:02 pm
It's hard to count how many things are wrong in that post... You can't train aliens tactics in other games, nor building... use MD if you have trained a lot with it, you can train with it easily in bot servers. Shotguns are very good against dragoons. Turrets are stronger then tesla, and if you place them well, they never lose track of target. And teslas block even more. Also aliens defenses dont 'die', they simply don't work with no OM.
Title: Re: Tips for newbies
Post by: Her3tic on April 14, 2008, 03:04:31 pm
Some things i did not know when i was a newbie and it took a lot of time for me to know it... (Don't judge me  ;D)


You need to look at what you wanna kill first... For dretch, even if you stand on a human head, you need to look at it to hit him. If you aim for the Head, you will hit the Head. If you aim for the legs, you will hit the legs... Same for the turret, a dretch can hit a ret even if the rets cant hit him, but you need to aim the nearest part of it tough.

I'll add more next time...
Title: Re: Tips for newbies
Post by: ChaosSquirrel on April 14, 2008, 07:53:56 pm
It's hard to count how many things are wrong in that post... You can't train aliens tactics in other games, nor building... use MD if you have trained a lot with it, you can train with it easily in bot servers. Shotguns are very good against dragoons. Turrets are stronger then tesla, and if you place them well, they never lose track of target. And teslas block even more. Also aliens defenses dont 'die', they simply don't work with no OM.

True, true. Alien tactics are hard to learn, so learn human tactics and observe aliens.
What is MD? And most bots are retarded, so it's not hard.
Shotguns work against dragoons, but they just chomp your head anyways.
Tesla actually does more damage if it's attack zone covers all approaches and is behind sufficient cover, not to mention that turrets have to turn, which has let many dretches/lisks past.
Also, I was wrong about the alien defenses. I was thinking of only barricades, since the rest depend on high stages or idiot humans.
Title: Re: Tips for newbies
Post by: Her3tic on April 14, 2008, 08:25:22 pm
Next tips is one i learned really late...

As human, you can run (Boost) by pressing the button you have assigned it too. Dont remember wich one was by deafault. It use stamina and you can run faster than usual. But the thing i didn't know ; You can run (boost) even if you are going Backward... Pretty usefull and i lacked that when i was noob...

Title: Re: Tips for newbies
Post by: maxell on April 15, 2008, 12:33:37 am
i have some other tips for some newbies to learn a bit fatser/better.

- try to get yourself a good friend and which is willing to train with you

- Getting yourself in a clan probly doesn't mean much to some people but it helps getting friends and there will show you how to do stuff and how to build, so on

-before you do anything on trem try doing some practise at killing bases and an empty server

-also build a base and kill it by yourself on an empty server, it might be boring but i have to say it trains you to build and make your building better and it also makes you a better attacker because you are attacking your own base which then you can see what are the weak and strong points in a base knowing that you can be able to make your building betterand doing so, it is making things much much easier to play on any server.

-when a player has some really good kills or is a very good build don't miss the occasion and spectate him, it might be slighty boring but it is very helpful.

PS: if you want you can even record it by typing /record in  the consol and /stoprecord. to stop it i am not sure about the /stoprecord but i think it is that. also keep in mind that everything comes at a price in this case being a good  player, comes at boringness of training. it might not be clear that sentnce but you will understand it when you get better
Title: Re: Tips for newbies
Post by: ChaosSquirrel on April 15, 2008, 02:38:35 am
As human, you can run (Boost) by pressing the button you have assigned it too. Dont remember wich one was by deafault. It use stamina and you can run faster than usual. But the thing i didn't know ; You can run (boost) even if you are going Backward... Pretty usefull and i lacked that when i was noob...



I'll have to implement that. Thanks for the advice.
Title: Re: Tips for newbies
Post by: Her3tic on April 15, 2008, 03:06:17 pm
Yeah it's helpfull and nobody ever told me, i only learned it because when i was humans, dretch was getting me if i was going backward to shoot at them, but as a dretch, the human i was following was much faster than i was as human (Backward run/Boost).

Usefull tips for everyone  ;D

One more :

To kill Aliens (Like a Dragoon), you must run around them in circle unpredicably, dont run on a straight line foward, it's pretty useless if you are agaisnt average players.
Title: Re: Tips for newbies
Post by: ChaosSquirrel on April 15, 2008, 07:55:17 pm
To kill Aliens (Like a Dragoon), you must run around them in circle unpredicably, dont run on a straight line foward, it's pretty useless if you are agaisnt average players.

Actually, try not to be able to circle them. The aliens can hit extremely well in melee. I played as aliens for a while yesterday, and most of my kills *WERE NOT* direct hits. While this helps when you can maneuver, it is not a cure all. Stay back a good distance and hit hard a quick. S3 humans use lucis, but S2 aliens can survive/dodge. If you really need to defend a base/kill an alien, luci overloads can kill S1/weak S2 aliens.
Title: Re: Tips for newbies
Post by: Her3tic on April 15, 2008, 08:56:48 pm
Of course Luci spam can kill everything, but its easily avoidable.

Move unpredicaply, and it'll be hard for other to kill ya
Title: Re: Tips for newbies
Post by: daenyth on April 17, 2008, 11:39:12 am
Boost is bound to the X key by default. A useful trick is to also bind it onto s in addition to moving, so that whenever you go backwards you sprint. It's a lifesaver. Also have medkit bound somewhere you can reach FAST. Mouse is ideal for this. My bind setup is pretty highly customized, but I like mwheeldown for medkit, mwheelup for grenade, and mbutton for blaster. I'll post my entire set of binds too. I use the keypad to buy/evolve, and arrow keys to buy some common setups (eg, helm, shotgun; prifle, battpack, gren, helmet; bsuit + chain; naked with rifle)

To use these binds, put them in ~/.tremulous/base

autoexec.cfg
Code: [Select]
exec name_daenyth.cfg // Set my main name
exec commbinds.cfg // Various chat binds
exec menu_binds.cfg // Set things up for me to use [, ], and enter for menus (such as building), where others might use mwheel
exec menu_names.cfg // Use those menu binds for selecting a name

bind home "team humans;exec humanbinds.cfg"
bind end "team aliens;exec alienbinds.cfg"

cg_hudfiles ui/phreak.cfg //use phreak's HUD. remove this line if you want default.

menu_binds.cfg
Code: [Select]
set menu_left echo Left
set menu_right echo Right
set menu_select echo Selected

bind [ vstr menu_left
bind ] vstr menu_right
bind enter vstr menu_select
// use [, ], and enter to navigate menus. Some people like to use mwheel for this, but I have that set to other things.
// Examples would be for builder scripts, etc.

menu_names.cfg
Code: [Select]
set name0 "set menu_left vstr name3 ; set menu_select exec name_daenyth.cfg ; set menu_right vstr name1 ; echo ^1Change name ^7to ^1[^2Daenyth^1]"
set name1 "set menu_left vstr name0 ; set menu_select exec name_blackmamba.cfg ; set menu_right vstr name2 ; echo ^1Change name ^7to ^1[^2BlackMamba^1]"
set name2 "set menu_left vstr name1 ; set menu_select exec name_todesengel.cfg ; set menu_right vstr name3 ; echo ^1Change name ^7to ^1[^2TodesEngel^1]"
set name3 "set menu_left vstr name2 ; set menu_select exec name_wdaenyth.cfg ; set menu_right vstr name0 ; echo ^1Change name ^7to ^1[^2[W]Daenyth^1]"
vstr name0

name_daenyth.cfg
Code: [Select]
name ^5NT^4|^5D^7aenyth

The other name_*.cfg are similar

alienbinds.cfg
Code: [Select]
bind KP_INS "class level0"            //numpad 0 | dretch
bind KP_DEL "class builderupg;class builderupg;class builder"           //numpad . | granger
bind KP_END "class level1"            //numpad 1 | basi
bind KP_DOWNARROW "class level1upg"          //numpad 2 | adv basi
bind KP_PGDN "class level1upg;class level1"      //numpad 3 | best basi available
bind KP_LEFTARROW "class level2"          //numpad 4 | mara
bind KP_5 "class level2upg"            //numpad 5 | adv mara
bind KP_RIGHTARROW "class level2upg;class level2"    //numpad 6 | best mara
bind KP_HOME "class level3"            //numpad 7 | goon
bind KP_UPARROW "class level3upg"          //numpad 8 | adv goon
bind KP_PGUP "class level4"            //numpad 9 | rant

bind KP_PLUS "class level3upg;class level3"    //numpad + | best goon
bind KP_ENTER "class level4"            //numpad = | rant

bind KP_SLASH ""
bind * "class level4;class level3upg;class level3;class level2;class level1;class level0" //evo to most expensive class. prefers goon over adv mara, mara over adv basi.
bind KP_MINUS ""

sensitivity 35
bind mouse2 "+button5"
bind mouse3 "+button2"

echo "^1Alien hacks enabled!"

humanbinds.cfg
Code: [Select]
set fixz "bind z +zoom"
set fixreload "bind mouse2 reload"
set fixalt "bind mouse2 +button5;vstr fixz"

set classrifle "class rifle;vstr fixreload"
set classckit "class ackit;class ckit;vstr fixalt"

set buyrifle "sell weapons;sell battpack;buy rifle;vstr fixreload"
set buyckit "sell weapons;buy ackit;buy ckit;vstr fixalt"
set buypsaw "sell weapons;sell battpack;buy psaw"
set buyshotgun "sell weapons;sell battpack;buy shotgun;vstr fixreload"
set buylasgun "sell weapons;buy lgun"
set buymdriver "sell weapons;buy mdriver;exec mdriver.cfg"
set buychaingun "sell weapons;sell battpack;buy chaingun"
set buyprifle "sell weapons;buy prifle;vstr fixreload"
set buyflamer "sell weapons;sell battpack;buy flamer"
set buyluci "sell weapons;buy lcannon;vstr fixalt"

set buygren "buy gren"
set buyarmor "sell bsuit;buy helmet;buy larmour"
set buybsuit "sell upgrades;buy bsuit"
set buyjetpack "sell battpack; buy jetpack"
set buybattpack "sell jetpack; buy battpack"

bind KP_INS "vstr classckit;wait;vstr buyckit" //spawn ckit or buy ckit
bind KP_DEL "buy gren"

bind KP_END "vstr classrifle;wait;vstr buyrifle" //spawn rifle or buy rifle
bind KP_DOWNARROW "vstr buypsaw"
bind KP_PGDN "vstr buyshotgun"
bind KP_LEFTARROW "vstr buylasgun"
bind KP_5 "vstr buymdriver"
bind KP_RIGHTARROW "vstr buychaingun"
bind KP_HOME "vstr buyprifle"
bind KP_UPARROW "vstr buyflamer"
bind KP_PGUP "vstr buyluci"

bind KP_MINUS "sell gren;sell upgrades"
bind KP_PLUS "vstr buyarmor"
bind KP_ENTER "vstr buybsuit"

bind KP_SLASH "vstr buyjetpack"
bind * "vstr buybattpack"


bind leftarrow "sell upgrades;sell weapons;vstr buyarmor;vstr fixreload;buy shotgun;buy rifle"
bind downarrow "sell upgrades;sell weapons;vstr buyrifle"
bind rightarrow "sell upgrades;sell weapons;buy bsuit;buy helmet;buy larmour;buy chaingun"
bind uparrow "sell upgrades;sell weapons;vstr buyarmor;vstr fixz;buy lcannon;exec altreload.cfg;buy prifle;buy battpack;buy gren"
// these ones are my preferred configurations
// season to taste.

sensitivity 27

bind mouse3 "itemtoggle blaster"
bind MWHEELUP "sell gren;itemact gren;buy gren"
bind MWHEELDOWN "itemact medkit"
bind v "itemtoggle jetpack"

echo "^4Human hacks enabled!"

mdriver.cfg
Code: [Select]
bind mouse2 reload
bind z "+zoom;+button5"
//This lets me use right click to reload
//And use z for zoom
//Even on newer servers which make right click = zoom

altreload.cfg
Code: [Select]
bind mouse2 "+button5;reload"
Title: Re: Tips for newbies
Post by: ChaosSquirrel on April 18, 2008, 07:57:25 pm
I've been using boost recently, and a quick tip. Don't waste all your stamina jumping. You can survive a dretch headshot if you run and gun. I did once. When your HP hits 4, run and gun. Slap on a medkit or hide. Don't just stand there and say "I'm dead."

On another note: Don't call people noobs. That is both offensive and uncalled for.
Title: Re: Tips for newbies
Post by: MDRIVER on May 18, 2008, 06:41:52 am
NOOOBNNOOOBBNOOOOBBNOOBB!!!!
ok i'm done  ;D
other tips, for dodging, it is helpful using the mouse to control the direction, like if you move left and you tilt your mouse left, you can cover more ground this way, especially running in circles, you must balance your movements, of kiling,
specific notices, try to move out of range from the goon/ any alien, you are more likely to survive a pounce than trying to dodge, when i fight people like apple.zubs, he continuly moves out of my range and at the same time shoots, just inheriting a single digit percentage of that will improve your dodging skills by percents.
WHen you are low on health and dretches are chasing you, use your energy and sprint away, when your clip is reloaded, look back and blast, away, or jsut simply run like a horse.
Another, use crouches, they reduce the damage that one usually recieves Especially in the beginning, always crouch, shoot, move when they miss, crouch again, and by that time the enemy should be ded. especially in matches with goons, goons can headbite you but with crouching, they have to spend twice that time to kill you as a croucher, so do yourself a favor and crouch.
Aliens, use the walls, always use the walls if youcan, and use zigzag movements, this will reduce your chances of being hit. Even when you fight helmeted people, always the highest damage is to the head, practice moving around rooms avoiding the floors.
When you use goon, i find it helpful to use the double pounce, meaning once you pounce, you can press jump and the momentum from the first pounce will continue, extremely useful for taking down lines of people.
Tyrant, i find that most people are incapable of hitting tyrants despite their size, practice moving in and out when attack and moving to the left and right, you will be surprised even more experienced people will miss you.
ok well i gtg, but I am glad i could contribute on a case that is completley unneccessary
Title: Re: Tips for newbies
Post by: Revan on May 19, 2008, 04:03:39 pm
Shotguns are good against  :dretch: but not against  :dragoon:, :basilisk:, or :marauder: because they have more armor and kill quicker (usually).

If you are any good at dodging a lisk will die by your shot gun, and if you are not good at dodging it doesn't really matter what weapon you have

Title: Re: Tips for newbies
Post by: ChaosSquirrel on May 19, 2008, 06:02:25 pm
Shotguns are good against  :dretch: but not against  :dragoon:, :basilisk:, or :marauder: because they have more armor and kill quicker (usually).

If you are any good at dodging a lisk will die by your shot gun, and if you are not good at dodging it doesn't really matter what weapon you have


I've improved quite a bit, and would like to change that statement. Only mara's are good against shotguns, because they're relatively small, fast, and tough.

One exception to the Human's Range Advantage Rule, the luci. It's actually easier to just wait for the hummie to waste his ammo and then headbite.
Title: Re: Tips for newbies
Post by: MDRIVER on May 23, 2008, 01:30:59 am
nope, humans can sprint foward and shoot, it is an annoying thing, they can also run away and shoot behind them
Title: Re: Tips for newbies
Post by: ChaosSquirrel on May 23, 2008, 02:04:14 am
Humans' greatest ability is the sprint. It allows you to hide behind the turrets after a head bite, outrun chasers, and generally be a major pain. Which, in this case, is good.

In addition, Tremulous is *NOT* the standard FPS. No-one cares about cheap tactics. Usually.
Title: Re: Tips for newbies
Post by: daenyth on May 28, 2008, 01:40:24 pm
On the subject of "cheap tactics", be careful where you use what. I personally think that, for example, spawn camping is a valid strategy (BEFORE S3); the enemy team shouldn't have built an unprotected spawn. Other people will try to votekick you for spawn camping. It depends who you play with. In any case, spawn camping when you have a chance to end the game by killing the spawn is bad. But often I see aliens make a forward egg they can't defend and then whine when humans farm stage two from it.
Title: Re: Tips for newbies
Post by: Rocinante on May 28, 2008, 05:13:14 pm
I tend to agree with you, daenyth.  If aliens put an egg out somewhere unprotected, and a human or two camps it for easy stage-ups, that's one thing.  But when anyone hovers around the only remaining spawn and kills people just "for the lulz" I tend to end the match for them.
Title: Re: Tips for newbies
Post by: ChaosSquirrel on May 28, 2008, 09:10:54 pm
Of course, but there are cheap tactics, and then there are cheap tricks. Shooting someone as they spawn is a trick, where as using the maps, camping (in some cases, e.g. Transit) etc. are tactics. Use your head, it really depends on: Would I think it was fair if I were on the other team?
Title: Re: Tips for newbies
Post by: Le Compilateur on May 28, 2008, 09:12:15 pm
Yes, I agree as well (to the spawn camping). My 2¢:

Spawn camping is a good strategy in S1 and S2, since it gives you easy kills (disputable; many players hate killwhores) and easy stageups (yup). At S3, however, it loses all its value as a "good strategy" and becomes a "cheap tactic". SD usually happens sometime into S3, and by then, you should be focusing on eliminating the enemy team as a whole rather than killing individual players just for the fragcount (seeing as you already have a sizable amount of kills, unless you were building/are a noob/suck at aiming). BTW I have nothing against noobs, I'm still something of a noob and everybody was a noob at some point.

I also have some advice for new/fairly new players. Use saybinds sparingly, if you value your reputation — on servers that allow vote-muting or if there are admins around, you will get muted for flooding the chat. Saying the same thing over and over again does not increase the chances of someone seeing it, it merely makes them hate you. Also, if you have something you don't want the other team to see or if it only concerns your team, use team chat! I have singlehandedly hunted down every last egg/telenode and builder because the other team broadcasted their plans in public chat.

If there is something you want to say to someone and it does not concern anyone else, PM them. This can be done with /m <name> <message> or /msg <name> <message> (try both; some servers use /m and some servers use /msg).

Oh, and I absolutely despise people who build a ring of turrets around the last egg, since it is frustrating and does not help either team in the slightest.

Sorry about the long post but I had a lot to say.

P.S. Speaking of the "gg" bind... What the hell does "gg" mean? I edited this in after ChaosSquirrel posted about it, since making a low-content post with just this question would be obnoxious.
Title: Re: Tips for newbies
Post by: ChaosSquirrel on May 28, 2008, 09:15:45 pm
Saybinds should only be used for informative binds. The "gg" bind is not only pointless, but annoying to see. Saybinds should only be used by experts of etiquette or co-ordination. Not random people. Just type it!
Title: Re: Tips for newbies
Post by: UniqPhoeniX on May 29, 2008, 02:41:19 am
gg=good game
Title: Re: Tips for newbies
Post by: Le Compilateur on May 29, 2008, 03:08:15 am
Thanks. I've seen that after many a game, and always wondered what it meant.

Strange how people spam "gg" after one-sided games that last about three minutes.
Title: Re: Tips for newbies
Post by: Kaleo on May 29, 2008, 11:47:43 am
It's etiquette
Title: Re: Tips for newbies
Post by: Le Compilateur on May 29, 2008, 08:45:24 pm
Ummm... How is spamming "gg" after an awful game "etiquette"?

Is it that the losing team might get offended?
Title: Re: Tips for newbies
Post by: Rocinante on May 29, 2008, 09:42:34 pm
I think the issue is that it's etiquette after any game to say "good game" to your opponents.  However I think it's obnoxious when the game was less than three minutes long, and the losers lost because of some stupid thing, and the winners are spamming 'gg'.

Then again, I don't play on places where I don't have !mute, so I just use that.  Sometimes after the next map starts as a pre-emptive STFU :>
Title: Re: Tips for newbies
Post by: Le Compilateur on May 29, 2008, 09:46:22 pm
Hmm. I like the idea of a preemptive STFU. ;D
Title: Re: Tips for newbies
Post by: ChaosSquirrel on May 29, 2008, 10:22:10 pm
The point is, binding "gg" is more work than just typing it. Should have clarified.
Title: Re: Tips for newbies
Post by: Le Compilateur on May 29, 2008, 10:45:39 pm
If someone spams "gg" after an awful game, I respond with "nvgg" (not very good game). Then I tell them to STFU and see the match for what it really was.

Another thing I hate: when someone says "gg" in the middle of a game which is clearly far from over.
Title: Re: Tips for newbies
Post by: ChaosSquirrel on May 30, 2008, 03:23:46 am
I've said gg at random times. By accident. I was confused.  ??? It turns out it was just a uncalled/unnoticed base move.
Title: Re: Tips for newbies
Post by: Le Compilateur on May 30, 2008, 12:21:13 pm
How could you not notice your base being moved? ;)
Title: Re: Tips for newbies
Post by: HamStar on May 30, 2008, 12:46:41 pm
It's kind of hard trying to read "Reactor was deconstructed by base_mover" while battling something like two tyrants who want to eat you for dinner when all you want to do is hug the Overmind with a painsaw in your hand. And yeah, I've found myself saying gg when I've finished off the human base, only to find that some lucky ckit ran off to the other side of the map where he's built a base which only dragoons and lower can get to. *cough* Arachnid2 vent base *cough*
Title: Re: Tips for newbies
Post by: Le Compilateur on May 30, 2008, 08:08:31 pm
Ah...yes, I've done that too. I was a human and I had just pwned every single egg in the alien base, only to realize a single granger had planted another egg somewhere else. Meanwhile, I had about 3 HP left and went back to base to heal, only to find it was no longer there!

Hmm, I guess I can see your point. :)
Title: Re: Tips for newbies
Post by: ChaosSquirrel on May 30, 2008, 10:57:56 pm
What HamStar said. It's hard to notice when everyone's talking or trying to kill you.
Title: Re: Tips for newbies
Post by: daenyth on June 05, 2008, 01:05:51 pm
Going back to the subject of spawn camping at S3... It does have the benefit of making the enemy team spawn queue less effective. If they have 3 spawns, one of which is camped, then 1/3 of the time they have to go back into the queue again... which on large games can be a tangible benefit. The question however, is whether this benefit it worth the bother and lameness of camping. I personally don't know.
Title: Re: Tips for newbies
Post by: temple on June 06, 2008, 04:02:39 am
Beginner humans:
Learn to run back to turrets.  When starting out, just move away from turrets a little then when under attack, run back.  Building 1 forward turret and using it as a retreat point is a good way to practice light combat with assistance from turrets

Beginner aliens:
Learn to wall walk and navigate.  No matter what other players do, running on the ceiling is always a good way to approach and stalk.  There is no substitute for it and decent humans will cut down ground dretches that aren't played by good players. 

For any player:
Get a pair of headphones and listen.  You can tell what kind of alien or what type of weapon a human has by sound.  You can't hear dretches walking or a human weapon type when they are holding their fire.  You can hear any other alien and tell its class by its footsteps or jump sound.  You can tell what weapon a human is using by its fire sound.  Sound is pretty nifty.
Title: Re: Tips for newbies
Post by: ChaosSquirrel on June 07, 2008, 12:09:18 am
Actually, running back to turrets can kill you, unless you sprint. And even then, you can run out of stamina long before reaching base. However, shooting anything that moves is a good tactic. Unless, of course, they're on your team. In which case, stop shooting and kill what they're running from.
Title: Re: Tips for newbies
Post by: temple on June 10, 2008, 03:13:39 am
Actually, running back to turrets can kill you, unless you sprint. And even then, you can run out of stamina long before reaching base. However, shooting anything that moves is a good tactic. Unless, of course, they're on your team. In which case, stop shooting and kill what they're running from.
Stamina takes a long time to drain.

Running back to turrets won't kill you.  Thanks for being ridiculous.
Title: Re: Tips for newbies
Post by: + OPTIMUS + on June 10, 2008, 03:25:33 am
easy to say but hard to do: don't turn your back to the enemy while running back. ever.

and when you are facing serious danger that you are not likely to make trough, instead of trying to run away while its obviously impossible, make an offensive maneuver. less likely expected, can harm more than a free kill, and if you are lucky, you can make it alive till your friend get there to help you. or you can even harvest some damage credits.
Title: Re: Tips for newbies
Post by: ChaosSquirrel on June 10, 2008, 04:03:05 am
A good tactic is to always have a buddy. Then, if you die, running back to base probably wouldn't have worked.


Stamina takes a long time to drain.

Running back to turrets won't kill you.  Thanks for being ridiculous.

What if you depleted your stamina already?
Also, running back to turrets can block those precious line-of-fires.
Title: Re: Tips for newbies
Post by: temple on June 10, 2008, 05:49:52 am
easy to say but hard to do: don't turn your back to the enemy while running back. ever.

and when you are facing serious danger that you are not likely to make trough, instead of trying to run away while its obviously impossible, make an offensive maneuver. less likely expected, can harm more than a free kill, and if you are lucky, you can make it alive till your friend get there to help you. or you can even harvest some damage credits.
You can sprint backwards. 

You can survive a lot.  That's why its important for beginners to *PRACTICE* retreating. 


There is no point is bringing up a lot of tactics that beginners won't understand or be able to duplicate on a server.  This isn't the 'look at my e-penis' thread.  Its supposed be for beginners.  Keep it simple.
Title: Re: Tips for newbies
Post by: ChaosSquirrel on June 10, 2008, 09:04:20 pm
Woah, I just realised how badly I mangled those quote boxes. Sorry for confusion.

I know. Sprinting backwards has saved me. But I didn't run to base crying for mommy, I killed three dretches and slapped on a med-kit. Turrets track slow, and can be obscured (I saw one noob trying to kill a dretch. He could have sidestepped, and the turret would have killed it.
Title: Re: Tips for newbies
Post by: temple on June 10, 2008, 10:08:08 pm
Woah, I just realised how badly I mangled those quote boxes. Sorry for confusion.

I know. Sprinting backwards has saved me. But I didn't run to base crying for mommy, I killed three dretches and slapped on a med-kit. Turrets track slow, and can be obscured (I saw one noob trying to kill a dretch. He could have sidestepped, and the turret would have killed it.
Beginners won't be killing 3 dretches.  This is the tips for beginners thread, right?
Title: Re: Tips for newbies
Post by: ChaosSquirrel on June 11, 2008, 12:17:32 am
And does that mean that more experienced players cannot offer advice? Anyway, I'm not that good. It was an combination of

A. They lined up
B. They came in sequence, instead of one rush
C. I was ticked off

which are three things never to try.
Title: Re: Tips for newbies
Post by: Jedarus on June 15, 2008, 02:01:36 pm
I used to get killed a lot when I was new by running out of stamina when I reached the turrets, so I couldn't jump over them in time to get out of a rant's way or a flying dretch. Sometimes it was turrets packed together so I couldn't really navigate over them, but mostly it was my own fault  :)
Title: Re: Tips for newbies
Post by: daenyth on June 15, 2008, 07:46:44 pm
And that's exactly why you should not block paths when building.

Edit: Thanks to whichever mod removed the trash posts.
Title: Re: Tips for newbies
Post by: Unarmed on July 13, 2008, 08:48:52 pm
Newb question: which servers have bots? Or it is possible to have bots on a server you create, how?
Title: Re: Tips for newbies
Post by: Jump on July 13, 2008, 09:19:50 pm
On-topic : Also, do not build Turrets in the middle of nothing, at least without another tower nearby. Even dretches can bring it down easily just by doing circles around it.

Answer to the off-topic : Invasion is a good bot mod. You should have used the mighty magical superspace Search (http://tremulous.net/forum/index.php?action=search) button before asking, because there is a reference to bots in the Mods section.
Title: Re: Tips for newbies
Post by: ChaosSquirrel on July 14, 2008, 02:15:35 am
On-topic: Aliens have radar. I realized this after a failed decoy-base.

Answer to off-topic: Not many bots are good. Most barely manage to aim. However, I think Jump is correct, in both of his recommendations.
Title: Re: Tips for newbies
Post by: daenyth on July 14, 2008, 10:14:00 am
Trem bots aren't really as advanced as other games. They're mostly only good for learning to aim. They have no strategy or concept of objectives. Pretty sure they don't build or do much base attacking either.
Title: Re: Tips for newbies
Post by: Unarmed on July 19, 2008, 12:01:00 am
Answer to the off-topic : Invasion is a good bot mod. You should have used the mighty magical superspace Search (http://tremulous.net/forum/index.php?action=search) button before asking, because there is a reference to bots in the Mods section.
Oops, I was assuming (a bad thing to do, I know) that it was something server-side that put in bots, instead of a mod. Thank you for pointing out my mistake. And I think that for me, bots that just know how to move, aim, and fire would be sufficient for learning stuff.
Title: Re: Tips for newbies
Post by: daenyth on July 19, 2008, 03:00:23 pm
Some random thoughts..

On ATCS, when there is a pack of humans in the hallway, don't rush them. Even if they're s1. 3 rifles in that hallway > ~4-5 dretchs. You will just feed them to s2. You *must* camp in this situation. A flank can work if you have a good mara or goon, and noone smart is watching their base.

Code: [Select]
    +----Alien base
     |
     |
 B   |A
+----+
|
|
|
|
|
|
+----+
     |
     |
     |
    +----Human base

A and B are the two best spots to camp in this situation.

---

Also, when your team has 5+ rants in a normal sized game, you can probably win the game on the spot if you all rush at the same time. Be careful not to FF each other, and never run. You attack their base until you die. Running will get you killed anyway, you'll do less damage, and you'll block teammates. Just go one after the other. Usually you can make enough evos back for a second run, if you start with at least 4 evos stored. You can also prepare for this by doing a hard camp for 2-3 minutes, and pick off the noobs who come until you all have a rant + 5 evos stored, then rush for the win. Today I was in a game where the humans had a tesla base on ATCS, and we had 6 rants.. they just camped and killwhored. Then I just went human and punished them for their stupidity >:)
     
Title: Re: Tips for newbies
Post by: Revan on July 28, 2008, 05:25:13 pm
Going back to the subject of spawn camping at S3... It does have the benefit of making the enemy team spawn queue less effective. If they have 3 spawns, one of which is camped, then 1/3 of the time they have to go back into the queue again... which on large games can be a tangible benefit. The question however, is whether this benefit it worth the bother and lameness of camping. I personally don't know.

This works best if you can get turrets / tubes around it (or some idiot built the spawn IN your base!)

Title: Re: Tips for newbies
Post by: ChaosSquirrel on August 03, 2008, 11:44:39 pm
Actually, a "decoy" spawn that is difficult to kill but leads to the other team killing you can save your main base, unless you feed them all to S3.
Title: Re: Tips for newbies
Post by: daenyth on August 07, 2008, 06:25:25 pm
This works best if you can get turrets / tubes around it (or some idiot built the spawn IN your base!)

I'm pretty sure that if you have the time/energy to build a forward base during s3, then you can probably try attacking their main base instead :P

Anyway, a single basi can easily handle a misplaced node. For eggs it's a little harder but rifle or lasgun work the best. Maybe a repeater+medpad to refill health and las ammo.
Title: Re: Tips for newbies
Post by: Lava Croft on August 07, 2008, 07:20:10 pm
Actually, a "decoy" spawn that is difficult to kill but leads to the other team killing you can save your main base, unless you feed them all to S3.
Actually, a 'decoy' spawn is not much unlike an ATM, only in the case of the 'decoy' spawn, the money just keeps on coming without you even asking for it.
Title: Re: Tips for newbies
Post by: mathchamp on August 07, 2008, 11:09:37 pm
I noticed this guide is not complete. No tips for newbies being aliens. Just a heading with nothing under it. Might want to add a few pointers for them.
Title: Re: Tips for forum newbies
Post by: player1 on August 08, 2008, 05:17:52 am
I noticed this guide is not complete. No tips for newbies being aliens. Just a heading with nothing under it. Might want to add a few pointers for them.

You may have also noticed the many threads in this sub-forum giving tips on playing as an Alien. You may have also noticed that Tremulous is the kind of community where the response to your suggestion is bound to be something like "Why don't you do it?". Might want to consider helping out.
Title: Re: Tips for newbies
Post by: daenyth on August 08, 2008, 06:57:20 pm
I noticed this guide is not complete. No tips for newbies being aliens. Just a heading with nothing under it. Might want to add a few pointers for them.

The guide was never complete. It's a work in progress.
Title: Re: Tips for newbies
Post by: ChaosSquirrel on September 18, 2008, 01:54:50 am
Actually, a "decoy" spawn that is difficult to kill but leads to the other team killing you can save your main base, unless you feed them all to S3.
Actually, a 'decoy' spawn is not much unlike an ATM, only in the case of the 'decoy' spawn, the money just keeps on coming without you even asking for it.

Let me clarify: A spawn without power or with power (potentially) can distract your foes long enough for a potent, accurate strike to become possible.
Title: Re: Tips for newbies
Post by: fingered banana on September 18, 2008, 02:43:07 pm
foodnode, you mean?
push button, receive human
Title: Re: Tips for newbies
Post by: daenyth on September 18, 2008, 07:59:13 pm
I don't know if this has been stated in here before, but without an egg or overmind to provide creep, all alien buildings (except hovel) will die. Don't waste your ammo shooting the acid tubes, go straight for the eggs and om. Ignore the defensives unless they impede your progress toward the eggs.

A good example of this is luci jumping on ATCS.
Title: Re: Tips for newbies
Post by: Urcscumug on December 04, 2008, 02:42:30 pm
Two things that came to mind reading this thread:

Quote
Also, running back to turrets can block those precious line-of-fires.

Perhaps "throw to the ground" for humans would be a good idea to implement. Wouldn't let you do anything, just clear the space / get out of the fire.

Second: is slow-walking any use as a human? Aliens have radar anyway, I'm guessing a decent alien player will make use of it, it's not like they'd rely exclusively on sound to detect nearby humans.
Title: Re: Tips for newbies
Post by: Sap on December 04, 2008, 09:29:25 pm
Second: is slow-walking any use as a human? Aliens have radar anyway, I'm guessing a decent alien player will make use of it, it's not like they'd rely exclusively on sound to detect nearby humans.


Yes, definitely. It can best be used to camouflage your Bsuit  and attract aliens (especially goons ;) ) and then chase them with a chaingun.

Secondly, at times it is helpful to listen to the incoming sounds to ascertain where your enemy may be or even what class is the alien . 

Thirdly, some maps have areas which require precise navigation lest you risk falling off and this is where slow-walking comes to the rescue.

Fourthly, often times after sprinting some distance one need to regenerate stamina while still being in motion . Again, slow-walking for few seconds helps build up stamina so that one can sprint again.

That's all I can think of now  :) .
Title: Re: Tips for newbies
Post by: Urcscumug on December 04, 2008, 11:50:03 pm
I never really thought about the other reasons, other than camouflage. Very interesting.

Another question: why is it (on the newbie server) that you have to wait for a while before you can build? And why does the map start with no armoury sometime?

Thanks everybody for this thread and actually this entire forum section. I've been reading it for a few days now. Tonight I got to put it to good use, remapped my binds then practised for a few hours on the newbie training server.

It ended at the wrong end of a rant stampede most times because we played against some alien players who weren't exactly newbies, so we were forced to hole up in out base most of the time. So it was mostly an exercise on surviving under siege. :) But it was good, I think we put up a good fight and I got to see and try a lot of things I've read about in here. I'll try to summarize:

* Don't feed the aliens. Don't respond to taunts and go out alone, especially when you're not armored. If they enjoy staying just out of range and teasing you, let them, if you know you can't survive out there.

* Watch the lines of fire, both of your mates and of the turrets. Also try not to block their back or their sides, and cover each other when advancing.

* Exercise self-control with the trigger. You don't HAVE to empty a clip in one go. If a mate comes into the line of fire you can stop. If you only get line of sight on an alien for a second it's better to squeeze a couple rounds and hit him once then shoot 30 rounds and hit him once. As a newb you go frantic sometimes and start firing non-stop when the aliens are around, but you gotta keep a clear mind and use it.

* It IS possible to outmaneuver goons and rants. It's harder with dretches, and they're all so damn fast, but it can be done. I know, what a suprise. If you play on regular servers as a newb it's all like 'put your head out--bam you're dead' so you get discouraged.

* Camping in your own base will not pay off if you're not doing it right. Gotta place your turrets properly so they can cover each other and be hard to reach, gotta place yourself properly so you can cover each other and the turrets and get covered by them, gotta cover the builder when he needs to repair or replace turrets.

* Communicate. We lost a lot of times because we didn't keep hitting their base when they were down to one egg, or because we didn't follow a wounded goon or rant running away (or followed him just one guy and ended up as food), or weren't clear on who should build, didn't notice when one had to get back to heal and get ammo etc. I advise getting binds for the most common situations.

* Use your head. It's so much more fun if you keep a clear head and use it. You start seeing you can use even the smallest pieces of environment against enemies, that you can relax right under their noses if you're calm and they're not, that you can find interesting new ways of doing something.

* I'm afraid I still don't see the magic of the shotgun. :) I'm thinking it's a specialized weapon that should be mastered. For the newb, the machine-gun type of weapons (rifle, pulse, chaingun) will work best (well, considering each of their quirks), as long as you don't get trigger happy.

* Practice AND read about it. It's a great combo. I actually learned a lot more (in just one evening) then I wrote here, but it's a long post already.
Title: Re: Tips for newbies
Post by: F50 on December 13, 2008, 12:54:49 am
I find pulse is hard to use because of the slow bullets. Lasgun is one of my favorites. The shotgun is great against dretches, but I have yet to see it work vs a goon.

This website should be put under the "binds" section:

http://www.mercenariesguild.net/component/option,com_openwiki/Itemid,12/id,binds/lang,en/
Title: Re: Tips for newbies
Post by: mooseberry on December 13, 2008, 07:40:27 am
I find pulse is hard to use because of the slow bullets. Lasgun is one of my favorites. The shotgun is great against dretches, but I have yet to see it work vs a goon.

Watch just about any clan war and you should see some examples, depending.

Shotgun can most definitely be effective against goon.
Title: Re: Tips for newbies
Post by: Urcscumug on December 13, 2008, 01:36:00 pm
Only a short while ago I said I didn't see the point of the shotgun, but I've since reconsidered. If you can aim it properly it means you can kill any dretch in one shot and any basi/marauder/goon who takes a few shots will feel none too well. The rate of fire seems slow but once you consider the time to maneuver around a charging goon or rant it becomes perfectly adequate. Consider the fact it does in a split second roughly the same amount of damage as an entire rifle clip.
Title: Re: Tips for newbies
Post by: theehero on January 26, 2010, 03:46:31 pm
When I asked for help, I felt like I was asking DOTA players to donate to a Help A Noob Charity.
Title: Re: Tips for newbies
Post by: Liskey on February 27, 2010, 08:25:25 pm
See [wiki]Tips[/wiki], and contribute.
Title: Re: Tips for newbies
Post by: daenyth on April 03, 2010, 01:30:43 am
Thanks to whomever moved this to a wiki. It's where it really belonged. :)