Tremulous Forum
Media => Mapping Center => Topic started by: Plague Bringer on December 25, 2007, 06:08:44 am
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Mappers these days...
They always stick to the safe side of mapping. There's no more experimenting.
No more Hamunaptras, Labyrinths, Ancient Remains, it's all just a bursh based tremor clone. Where's the excitement that came with the unexpected quakes and eruptions in volcano? What about the beautiful architecture in PoM? What about the nausea inducing ameplay alternatives such as in Pulse_102 with the locking doors.
Well, that's my rant. Expect (while at the same time avoid expecting) a new, fresh, map from me sometime in the near (give or take) future.
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Most people do not understand the possibilities of the triggers included nor the gameplay tactics they can employ. They come up with outrageous ideas which trem can't do while avoiding the possibilities it does have. And gameplay is key to having a map remain fun to play. Also a factor is that many people just map and don't have at least a theme in mind. The mapping comp at least gives some direction and the Jan-March one even is actually quite restrictive in theme, but open in execution.
On the other hand you can't expect tremulous to have the quantity of high-quality mappers q3 enjoys. It just isn't that well known and some have moved on to newer games, although I must admit that many mappers are flip-flopping between q3 and the newer games. I know that dichtfux/spirit at least has checked out tremulous, but I don't know about any of the others.
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ummm, so noobs making goofy maps dont count? darn......
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There's no more experimenting.
ORLY?
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your face and brain, I respect and look up to you guys for the new concepts you're bringing back into the mapping community, but to be honest, you guys aren't very well known as mappers. Lava made a map a while back, Sokolov, and it was a layout experimentation from my perspective. It was a small change from the normal maps, but it made a big difference. That's what we should be looking for. Not your average cargoship with some elevators and a maze of vents, but your average cargoship with airlocks, patches of alien creep at their bases, locking doors., docking rooms with a forcefield leading to the void of space which, when down, kills everyone inside. While many of these ideas may seem gimmicky, it's these features that I find make games that much more interesting.
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I always want to make something new, but I have no good ideas, and a good base from whihc to add cool features takes me ages, by which time I am out of steam.
For example, my map, [dunnowhattocall] was a space ship, and it was going to all be placed at an angle, as if hanging damaged in space, with green goo collecting at the bottom, but I ran outta steam, and we shall never play the map.
Ideas + Time + Will + Skill == AwesomeCoolRadMap
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I'm working on a map that resembles the Predator temple from AvP, in the way that every x number of minutes, it reconfigures itself to block or unblock certain passages and routes.
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The are some interesting maps out there, just people aren't willing to release them. By looking at what is posted here, they just expect the map to be shunned.
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well, for us newbies, releasing a map is..... a bad experience!
which, in a way, makes us strive to improve....... a good thing, i guess.
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The are some interesting maps out there, just people aren't willing to release them. By looking at what is posted here, they just expect the map to be shunned.
I agree, the JA mapping community was once thriving. Now, all the mappers are afraid to release maps under threat of flame.
I once started a map, with booby traps and falling pits and trigger_hurt spikes, but I've since ditched it for more serious projects. Maybe I shouldn't have.
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The are some interesting maps out there, just people aren't willing to release them. By looking at what is posted here, they just expect the map to be shunned.
I agree, the JA mapping community was once thriving. Now, all the mappers are afraid to release maps under threat of flame.
I once started a map, with booby traps and falling pits and trigger_hurt spikes, but I've since ditched it for more serious projects. Maybe I shouldn't have.
thats what im working on right now, not for gameplay or novelty form, but for general puzzle like theme to it to solve.
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mebe a puzzle that aliens hav just as much trouble solving as humans?
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In my case:
Ideas + Time + Will - Skill
I haven't made much in 3D and still got lots to learn before I can make a map worth releasing. But definitely, this forum has probably discouraged MANY newbie-mappers, instead of trying a map and giving constructive criticism, we see flames about every detail on every screenie. Not a good start for new mappers.
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AYE! ;)
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though tbh the community is improving, slightly, but improving.
Face it guys.
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am i proof yet?
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The best solution to not liking the maps you are presented is to try to do better yourself. That sets the best example you can think of.
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you dont realize how hard it is to map until you actually start making cool maps yourself.
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The best solution to not liking the maps you are presented is to try to do better yourself. That sets the best example you can think of.
Doing so.. slowly. New trend with my friends, Soldier Front and eXteel, so I'm kind of busy with other games.
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The best solution to not liking the maps you are presented is to try to do better yourself. That sets the best example you can think of.
Doing so.. slowly. New trend with my friends, Soldier Front and eXteel, so I'm kind of busy with other games.
You should have posted a picture of your map in progress to strengthen your words ;)
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I'm posting from my phone again so plz forgive my formatting. Plauge Bringer- i too am working on a AvP temple style map (suggested to me by kor pbhead). I've made great progress with the changing maze but the problem i'm having is with asthetics and playability. hidden triggers in one area of the map can trigger a wall on the other part of the map to open up or close. the map is mid size but feels huge with all the twist and turns. I still have box-map style corradors that i hope to reshape for a better look and feel. but my worry is: would a map like this be popular when players are constantly getting lost and cant find their base or the enemy base? Or will that just kill off the map's chances of a fair review by the players?
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Actually, this is a decent necro. I think with the advent of Station13, and face's maps, the mapping community is getting the idea. Nubcake's maps are pretty decent looking, and the rain he is using is REALLY original, it adds a whole other level of gameplay.
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Id bloody try and make interesting maps IF I DIDNT GET SO MANY BLOODY ERRORS!
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Necro theread? Bummer. And sry. Thread Dates dont show up for us cell phone surfers.
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i always try to do something out of the box, but almost every time i lose my steam like shadow and just stop.........i have 23 maps in my WiP folder.. but im not sure i want to release any because none of them are properly done or uncomplete and i just want to try something new, so i am going to find a project i like and stick to it. which is most likely the one i posted in random dev shots.
-ƒlesh :basilisk:
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Haha, Waxy, I started a map like that a while ago, too. The only problem I found with it was timing all of the func_trains properly. Other than that, it was pretty simple (mind you it's a very small map). Personally, I loved the map, Pulse. You may, or may not, have played it. It featured a system of doors that could be locked, requiring one to take the long way around the map. A lot of people complained, but I found my way through the map my first two or three times playing it, and have known it like the back of my hand ever since. It was a fantastically fun map. It featured outdoors that would hurt players. Humans that spawned outdoors and had to walk to the inside to begin their base, the locking doors that I mentioned, and an array of other gimmicks (cameras, elevators) that added a lot to the gameplay.
TL;DR: While a lot of people will complain about getting lost, if the map is well built, it'll still be awesome fun.
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The problem is, is that if someone releases a map, almost no server will play it. And if a "new" map is call voted, people disconnect because they are too lazy to download the map and connect with a server that plays ATCS.
There are so many great maps out there and yet almost no server plays them, the default maps are getting boring because they get played to much.
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Here's a fun idea, which may or may not end well:
Everyone who wishes to take part, spend two weeks or so on creating a small section of a map, establish a theme and a basis for continuation. Then after those two weeks, everyone sends their map to the next person who then spends two weeks continuing the map and so on until all the maps are "complete". You can make alterations to existing pieces of the map, but they have to be small alterations (Rather than tearing down someone else's work and starting again).
Not only might it produce some interesting maps, but it would be a useful learning process for some mappers, who may not yet have the skills to continue what someone else has started.
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every project attempting this has failed greatly
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I've known groups of people attempting a build a map together, Orbital Station 42 for example, which appears to have drifted out of orbit and into the vast void of unmonitored space, but that's not exactly what I'm suggesting. As far as I know (although correct me if I'm wrong) nothing quite like this has been done before.
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I've known groups of people attempting a build a map together, Orbital Station 42 for example, which appears to have drifted out of orbit and into the vast void of unmonitored space, but that's not exactly what I'm suggesting. As far as I know (although correct me if I'm wrong) nothing quite like this has been done before.
If you want, everyone make a piece of map and i will compile it all together (glue it). But I wont even start until EVERY piece is finished. I know alot of mappers here have a cool room or a cool hall/area that they like but not map for it, so all it takes is some uploading :)
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The first mapping competition went well. It's no different. If ten people create a room each, and then send those rooms to someone who will connect them and compile, it could work excellently. Especially if each person were to create a designated room. Actually, if you got three to five people, you could recreate ATCS, just for shits and giggles. One for each base, one for the middle. So long as they have to work within certain dimensions..
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you dont realize how hard it is to map until you actually start making cool maps yourself.
aye, thus it isnt just that, you realize how time consuming it is.
As for new ideas towards map... come over to my place and ill give you 5 sketch books full of map ideas ive sketched out while being bored in school with triggers planned out and everything. If I had more time I would so have more maps out then just my Beta release of Zealous atm.
(but seriously, I have thousands of map concepts just waiting for me to make.)
Maps I plan to make as soon as Im done with Zealous:
Maze: A giant maze where you have to find your way to the enemy base while avoiding traps.
Compound Zero: A outdoor map filled with giant crates of randomness and 2 cranes that can be climbed and(using switches) turned in 4 different directions. Caves, random buildings, A tower including 2 elevators, 2 stairs, fully accessible ventilation system. A train/cart that can be moved along its track.
Bunker Omega: A new bunker map(cause the current bunker map doesnt give off a bunker feel) where humans have placed themselves under a hibernation to sleep out a nuclear summer. Only a few humans are awake and have found an alien infestation within the bunker. Players will be able to go outside the bunker where I plan to use Socks terrain methods to make some realism, the bunker will have 3-5 different levels underground all accessible
Those are just a few ideas that keep bugging me that I really want to get done with :P
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careful! someone might steal your ideas! ::)
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I think that's what he was hoping for. :)
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What no, I don't want anyone to steal them, and besides, even if they try to, I'm the only person that knows exactly how I want them to look and be.
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Do you mind explaining the term "nuclear summer"?
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It's a combination of nuclear winter and global warming.
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Global warming's a lie.
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Global warming's a lie.
QFT
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oo global warming... gives me a good idea for a map :D
there needs to be a way to change where gravities pull is on the map, i would so make a planet map, like a small planet but it would be awesome to have a round map.
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We would need basic physics before that... Maybe if it's added in Trem 1.2, might see more space maps with moons and stuff :P
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What people should do to stop maps from getting boring, is not worry about framerates. Go to town with the detail.
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Frequent servers that run non-standard maps! Your presence really is the vote, so find some friends and play matches on a server with non standard maps. If you can get people showing up regularly for matches, then people will continue to show up for matches on the new maps. I guarantee that I will be there :)
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R.I.P. Fun-Zone :(
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R.I.P. Fun-Zone :)
Fix'd
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A way to make tremulous maps more interesting is to have more interesting triggers in maps. Not everyone is good at making complex triggers like two way elevator and other stuff. so why don't mappers who are skilled at this stuff make 2 way elevators trains an other cool things and post the .maps. That way even people with very little skill can make complex and interesting maps. And mappers who are good at making cool looking levels but not necessarily good with triggers can make maps. So what if we get a lot of newbie maps at least they are better then rooms full of the same color boxes an atcs textures. People could also look at how these complex triggers are constructed and build on that making even better triggers.
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Actually, there's a lot of nice looking maps out there. The difficulty is that you need to sift through the few hundred other maps to find them. I'd have no way of knowing which maps have .map files with them, there are so many. But I'm sure that if you spent an afternoon looking through the various maps out there you'd find something that surprised you, not to mention useful triggers.
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What people should do to stop maps from getting boring, is not worry about framerates. Go to town with the detail.
The way to prevent maps from getting boring is to pay more attention to the gameplay than anything else. Whether a map is pretty or not has absolutely nothing to do with whether it is fun to play. I have some really nice artwork on my walls, but I don't spend hours staring at it.
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What people should do to stop maps from getting boring, is not worry about framerates. Go to town with the detail.
The way to prevent maps from getting boring is to pay more attention to the gameplay than anything else. Whether a map is pretty or not has absolutely nothing to do with whether it is fun to play. I have some really nice artwork on my walls, but I don't spend hours staring at it.
Even so, a if a fun to play map hurts your eyes or damages your psyche, then it's probably not a good map.
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Actually, there's a lot of nice looking maps out there. The difficulty is that you need to sift through the few hundred other maps to find them. I'd have no way of knowing which maps have .map files with them, there are so many. But I'm sure that if you spent an afternoon looking through the various maps out there you'd find something that surprised you, not to mention useful triggers.
That's why I've brought http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i_QrIGwqq6Y To the table! Decompile .bsp's to .map's :/
Do not use it to steal somones map, or make it look shitty then release it, or anything horribly evil that I know SOME of you may do.
It's an easy tut. Very in depth.
Use it to figure out how somone did something in a map.
Have fun with it!
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R.I.P. Fun-Zone :(
Trem-X and X server
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But Trem-X isn't really the same as normal tremulous. :-\
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And X most definitely isn't.
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Because of my tendency to drop projects after I envision them, I'm only posting this once: I may, repeat, *may* be working on a rather...unusual Tremulous map soon. Maybe. Depending on my living situation, it may not be released for awhile, if it gets built at all.
Also, grangers are good for your health.
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Can you finish your one with Odin soon? Or at least give us the .map file so Face can work on it?
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Where have your stories gone to?
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@Kaleo, there is still a fairly good chance that we may finish it when real life(tm) stops being annoying. So we probably won't be releasing the .map until the map is done.
@Bissig, sorry, I haven't updated my stories in ages, and my sig is out of date. It's http://supertanker.mercenariesguild.net now. Ditto about the RL situation.
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I like making doors you can't see start open, you walk and suddenly crushes you.
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What's with the necroing virus? It's kinda lame.
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lol, its almost cute ^^
o well its not hurting any thing :p