Tremulous Forum
Community => Strategies and Tactics => Topic started by: Valour250 on January 14, 2008, 06:56:29 am
-
Ok when I was just starting trem I went out and read everything about every weapon and fighting style out there (as well as building when I eventually got into building) , some of it helped some of it didn’t. At the time I was mainly aliens however; I enjoy both classes equally so I will give advice on both and like myself if you don’t agree that’s fine but remember this is my opinion and not factual.
Over all I hope my guides help and you go away with new knowledge, and in turn pass on that knowledge.
ALIEN FIGHTING GUIDE
Ok this guide is of my own opinion and does not represent ANY 100% ACTUAL FACT.
Sorry to anyone who was interested in the humans weapon guide or I will not be writing one the reasons being that weapons for the humans are personalized and you are better off to learn how to use them yourself...
Dretch (0,evos)
The dretch is by far the most versatile and effective killer, it is small and hard to hit and very speedy, in the hands of a master a dretch can take on a battle suit and win although that is a very hard accomplishment.
Lets start;
Ok here are some general rules for dretching:
NEVER run in a straight line!!!
Never stay in the same spot if you are fighting a human.
Use wall climb sometimes this may take time to get used to. (Not all walls/roofs are as easy to use)
Use stealth as much as possible
So your goal as a dretch is to when attacking use head bites, preferably from the ground reason being good players kill you when you jump for a head bite the only time I would recommend a head bite jump was if you were behind. If you don’t know how to do a head bite from the ground just look up if you do it correct It should take two shots to kill a human who isn’t wearing a helmet. If you have never head bitten before try it and see how much different the higher you look, You must however not look too high. You do not want to miss. Ok when I dretch I utilize hit and run tactics, or charge when the sucker human is reloading So to do this you must combine wall climbing (pushing c just once to activate it) strafing (not running in a straight line) and jumping [would not recommend for beginners. Ok so you are charging this human running up and down these walls going on the ground and all around him, your goal is to confuse him and make
Him loose sight of you. If you make him loose his target it gives you the advantage charge in and head bite him, than run away or finnish him off then and there. However if it Is a b suit or a guy with a helmet you would be better off doing a hit and
These next to strategies I cant utilize yet but are extremely effective.
1) Circling your human, if you pull this off successfully8 you will be moving around him just on the ground charging in to bite when he looses sight of you and repeat Would only recommend for advanced players.
2) Another way would is the ground strafing attack this is a variation of circling but instead of circling you are just moving around Not getting hit moving forward and back to bite this is even harder to use than circling but extremely effective when mastered.
When you engage a group of humans apply these strategies and you will cause mayhem and inflict heavy casualties.
In all this when attacking the enemy you are trying to keep head biting.
Balisks (1-2evos)
I don’t know much about using the guys however like always I will try and help.
The main aim of the lisk is to grab a human [you do this by touching one] while grabbing him so he is not able to shoot you. Once you have grabbed him you bite his head off or
Torso depending how good you are.
Rules:
Never let go
Getting behind a human is best
Engaging humans in groups is very dangerous.
Stealth is better than full confrontation.
This is all the advice I can give wish you luck and many kills.
Marauders (2-3evos)
Advice may be available at a later date. (In other words im crap at these and don’t know how to advise people on this until I learn how to myself)
The only tip I have is keep moving and jumping makes you harder to hit, and perhaps try sneaking behind people. The last thing, aim at their heads. Also common sense would help greatly.
Dragoons (3-4evos)
Wow what can I say…. These guys are the all round supreme alien, I know some people would disagree and say the rant is however that is only because of his power and high life points.
Reason: these guys are highly maneuverable; they can pounce and are fairly strong.
The how to use these is in a counter to human dodging, you want to block off there every move counter it and attack.
That was mêlée however their pounce is also a very effective weapon that once mastered could help turn battles. The trick with the pounce is not to just pounce by itself but to attack, get you closer to an enemy or to do some damage before you bite the hell out of that human.
Look at the human’s torso and upwards more damage and you will need to do it because in later stages you will have to kill the human before he kills you and doing as much damage as possible is vital.
So back to the actual skills used in gooning. It is vital with a goon to be as hard to hit as possible this is more important to actually try to be hard to hit with a goon because you are a large target unlike dretches, lisk and Mara’s (which are only so because of there jumping abilities).
Oh something I should say is that it is hard to hit humans with a goon for some reason if they get to close to you, you are unable to hit them so you have to learn to be the right distance from a human or maybe it is related to your ping I am not sure but eventually you will get used to it and start hitting more often. Also another thing if you find that a human is moving to the side of you and you cant hit seem to hit him try 1stly moving away from him or closer depending on the circumstances but if that is not it than try aiming in front of the direction he is moving.
Now once you have mastered these aspects you will be able to out maneuver and out match most humans, but if you don’t master them straight away don’t worry it takes time to master these skills and good luck hunting.
Tyrant (5evos)
The only reason I am including the rant in this guid is because there is no point doing an alien stage 3 guide, this is because the advanced lisk, Mara and goon are all essentially the same skills just with a ranged feature added.
The rant, ok if you cant use these guys its because you aren’t keeping your eyes on the enemy and he is getting out of your screen. Do the things suggested for gooning and it will work for rants, however there is one point that more strongly effects the use of being an effective rant that is not so much a problem being a goon. For some reason if you are a rant and your circling around and around with a human and he charged right up in your face so hes touching you you can not hit him this is extremely annoying so to counter this always keep the enemy an appropriate distance from you (making sure you can still hit him.) Also as with the goon the human moving to the sides of you, look slightly in front of the direction he is heading.
Over view:
Ok if you do most of these things you will be pretty effective with the alien of your choice, eventually once you have mastered these skills you may develop your own guides that work better than these if you do I would love to hear about them so I can continue to improve.
Before I go I want to say some general things for all classes:
The only time I recommend engaging 4 or more humans is if they are naked or if you are a dretch the only reason you would do this other wise was if you were absolutely certain that you could take them on or you were willing to hamper them and die in the process.
Not doing this has brought much frustration and a loss of evo points.
Always think before and during engagement never run in and just charge straight always give thought to the weapons can you now get away with him chasing you etc etc
Good luck hunting all.
By Valour
-
Nice guide I didn't read all of it just skimmed it one thing though
You say don't take on > 4 humans unless they are naked or you are a dretch
This is probably very good advice for a new person BUT:
I have taken on that many or more s3 humans with an adv mara several times, as long as there is a quick way of escape it is fairly safe just keep jumping, jumping and trying to head swipe, jumping allot more, trying to zap them, etc.
nice guide 8)
-
In the ATCS map inexperinced dretches could (in the hallway) go crazy along the walls and try to get past the humans, most inexperinced humans dont chase dretches. When past them simply turn around and attack the humans from behind while they are focused towards the ailen side of the map.
-
The part about jumping with a mara making you harder to hit, that should be changed. Jumping gives you a better attacking opportunity if you do it wisely, but no matter what it will always hurt your safety while you're fighting. I'm not the best mara but I've found that engaging humans from the ground and getting one hit in and then jumping immediately after and getting a headshot in is very effective. Jump too much though, and you WILL die to any accurate and always moving player.
There are some really good maras out there. K-otic, St. Anger, and Draik are a few of the best I know.
-
There are some really good maras out there. K-otic, St. Anger, and Draik are a few of the best I know.
And Bunny
-
my best alien tactic.
be a dretch untill s3 by then you should have about 5 evos so...
:tyrant: :tyrant: :tyrant: :tyrant:
:turret: :turret:
:tesla:
:human: Damn!
:defcomp:
:armoury:
:reactor:
-
That's gotta be boring as shit.
-
untill s3 by then you should have about 5 evos so...
Lmao, seems like you'd have a lot more than 5 by the time your team is s3.
-
That's gotta be boring as shit.
untill you get2 s3
-
That's gotta be boring as shit.
untill you get2 s3
Dragoon vs s1 humans is the best advantage you get. Don't throw that away. If all aliens stay dretch, it will end up being chainsuits and lucis vs s1 aliens.
-
ok, who eva saod wait till s3 and only have 5 or so evos u need 2 train bad or u have lots of 1 v 1s.....
anyways if any1 has any advice for the areas i missed plz feel free to post them here for the benefit of other players!
-
That's gotta be boring as shit.
untill you get2 s3
Dragoon vs s1 humans is the best advantage you get. Don't throw that away. If all aliens stay dretch, it will end up being chainsuits and lucis vs s1 aliens.
no actually the best advantage is this: :tyrant: :human:FUCK!
-
Also, about stealth... KEEP STILL!!! Human eyes pick up motion and whatever they're searching for easier than anything they aren't looking for. If they're staring at you, move. Otherwise, ignore until the time is right. Also, shake it up. When stealthing, if you kill a guy twice, switch class. It makes it harder for him to recognize you. Also, the dretches are orange. Which makes them hard to see. Be careful on dark maps, where aliens can hide. Lamers might consider turning up their brightness settings.
-
this is overall good, but look in this section, there are topics for explaining strategies what you didn't have.
-
Here is my guide to aliens.
:tyrant: + :human: :human: :reactor: :telenode: :turret: :turret: :turret: = :human: x 0
-
under standard equivalent circumstances a naked human should own a dretch as 2:1 kill ratio.
but as the amount of humans raises, the dretches could start distracting and confusing them, so i would say that three dretches on 5 of humans will own losing maybe only one of them. human teammates are blocking the way of shots, nobody is sure who is going to shoot wich alien, and they are disturbing each other with movements. especially working like this on corridors.
this could be one of the reasons why lonely killwhores can own some games by leaving their team behind to avoid customised teamkills and dodge-blockings..
ofc its different in clan wars where everyone knows his jobs and humans have front attackers, defenders at behind and selected arms and weaponry.
for dretches, you could also use your environment such as doing instand (double) headshots on slopes like at atcs corridors, or jumping to walls to avoid shots and then again back to he head.
the main thing i beleive to be an effective alien is to play much as human to know how they work and how humans are expecting them to work.
-
Not necessarily. Some dretches can work miracles.
-
Not necessarily. Some dretches can work miracles.
(http://www.willowgreen.com/TTC/06_07_images/Miracle_lg.jpg)
-
Also, about stealth... KEEP STILL!!! Human eyes pick up motion and whatever they're searching for easier than anything they aren't looking for. If they're staring at you, move. Otherwise, ignore until the time is right. Also, shake it up. When stealthing, if you kill a guy twice, switch class. It makes it harder for him to recognize you. Also, the dretches are orange. Which makes them hard to see. Be careful on dark maps, where aliens can hide. Lamers might consider turning up their brightness settings.
Switching classes when you kill someone seems quite pointless, regardless how many times.
The problem with dretches isn't the fact they're orange, it's more them being so small. I don't think they're hard to spot because of their colour.
-
still, their hitbox is bigger :-*
and lamers grow in every bush.
i remember the time, what lasted a year, while i kept binding as an abusemnt. i still consider bunnyhopping at quake as a noob habit, thats why i suck :-)
-
Advanced technique:
Try to move past the human and then attack. I call it the run down. For example:
You start here
:dretch: ................................. :human:
Run in the human's direction but focusing on dodging his shots and getting past him
................................. :human:
.................... :dretch:
Once behind, go on the attack yourself.
.......................... :human:......... :dretch:
This is very simple but requires some basic tactics. The ability to wall climb, wall bounce, pounce, and trample are essential. Dodging and refraining from attacking is needed, most don't run down humans because they are so tempted to go for an easy kill. Finally, understanding the terrain and turret placement makes this effective.
Once you get behind the human, the strategic elements begin to work:
- The alien (you) are between the human and turrets
- The human can no longer retreat to defenses for protection
- The terrain advantage is gone
- The human is fighting away from teammate support
This is all simple but it works with any class and most any human. Most beginners will simply continue to back up and land directly into your attack. An experienced player will either try to get back on the other side and retreat or fight from the new position. But for a second, the alien has turned the tables. By mastering running down a human, you can apply this with teammates.
The block is when you run down a human and have them outflanked by a teammate. For example:
:dragoon: You
:tyrant: Teammate
:battlesuit: Unlucky human
Here is how the block plays out
:tyrant:
............................................. :battlesuit:
:dragoon:
Now, you pounce to get behind the human
:tyrant:
........................................ :battlesuit:
................................................. ............. :dragoon:
Now close the human into the trap
:tyrant:................... :battlesuit:.......... :dragoon:
All you have to do is stand opposite of the human's position. You will keep him from retreating and force him into the tyrant. If the human back peddles or tries to retreat, he falls into your attack. If he advances to avoid you, your teammate will finish him off. Both you and your teammate can attack without damaging each other, if you both hold your positions.
The block is very effective because most large aliens end up teamkilling each other when attacking a human. So, by blocking, the aliens can position themselves to avoid accidental damage and ensure the human dies. Good players usually can play along with a block, therefore only 1 person (you) need to know what is going on. Just avoid going for easy kills and set up the trap.
A common situation to use a block is with corners
__________________
| :battlesuit:...... :dragoon: (you)
| .
| :tyrant: (teammate)
|
Just hold your position and let the human struggle.
-
The run down would not always be ideal for taking down humans... I often do the same as a human, which means you could be giving that human just what he wants..
Then again, it might be fatal for the human if he's trying to run down and the alien is doing the same, both are prepared for getting the other player behind them....
-
Ah, but really, trying to sneak behind doesn't always work, especially if the human has a shotgun. They, you have a problem.
-
Every weapon can be slipped by rather easily with the use of walls or jumps.
really.
Killing's the problem when you're facing a good opponent. :)
-
The great thing about the marauder is the ability to jump around like a mad thing, most likely doing no damage but causing some idiot to waste all his ammo trying to kill you. If it's a magazine-fed weapon, that gives you two seconds every so often to attack completely unopposed (If it's a single opponent, which is highly likely in Tremulous).
-
Every weapon can be slipped by rather easily with the use of walls or jumps.
really.
Killing's the problem when you're facing a good opponent. :)
True, unless the opponent gets lucky and shoots you off the wall or while mid air. It's happened plenty to me.
-
Every weapon can be slipped by rather easily with the use of walls or jumps.
really.
Killing's the problem when you're facing a good opponent. :)
True, unless the opponent gets lucky and shoots you off the wall or while mid air. It's happened plenty to me.
Yes, of course. We should base our strategies and tactics around your lack of luck (http://phaild.ytmnd.com/). ::) :P :-*
-
It's not lacking luck, it's an inefficiency in dodging! :p
Kidding, happened to me plenty too- and everyone knows I AM an exellent dodger!
:D
-
To be a very efficient mara, goon, or rant, you need to master moving backwards. It's just as important as moving forwards against many of the good human dancers out there. It's especially important with mara though. If a human runs into you when you're a mara, it gets very difficult.
-
Yes, of course. We should base our strategies and tactics around your lack of luck (http://phaild.ytmnd.com/). ::) :P :-*
Actually, I'm quite lucky. Unlucky things happen around me, but never to me. I can shoot dretches off of was twenty feet away if you tell me to. And *NOT* standing still. I was also lucky enough to check the url link before clicking, so I dodged the trap!
-
To be a very efficient mara, goon, or rant, you need to master moving backwards. It's just as important as moving forwards against many of the good human dancers out there. It's especially important with mara though. If a human runs into you when you're a mara, it gets very difficult.
It boils down to accuracy, who hits who fastest or in the case of a mara, hitting them in the head quickly.
A good alien should never be killed by a rushing human. A skirmish between good players should play out as expected, aliens trying to close and humans trying to distance. When humans start rushing, its because the aliens are weak.
-
Actually, I've seen many good rants killed by a human rush. One thing *NOT* to do is try to run away with a rant. Especially if you only have 2 hp. Kill that guy with the shotgun first, at least. (I've actually killed a rant because he hid behind the corner when I was chasing him. Five shotgun blasts work wonders.)
-
about that,'sneaking behind them' trick,i tried the other day and it went like this
v me
:dragoon:
...................................... :battlesuit:
:tyrant:
v charging noobrant
...................................... :dragoon: :tyrant:.................................
............................ :battlesuit:
:tyrant:
......................................:DEAD: :tyrant: ZOMG LOL SO SRRY
................................................. ...........:battlesuit: lolz...
................................................. .................. :tyrant:
......................................:DEAD: :tyrant: GIVE ME 20 MIN ILL PAY YOU BACK
................................................. ...........:DEAD:
:slash:
................................................. ..................:tyrant:
afterwards i was kind of pissed because i never got my evos back
-
To be a very efficient mara, goon, or rant, you need to master moving backwards. It's just as important as moving forwards against many of the good human dancers out there. It's especially important with mara though. If a human runs into you when you're a mara, it gets very difficult.
It boils down to accuracy, who hits who fastest or in the case of a mara, hitting them in the head quickly.
A good alien should never be killed by a rushing human. A skirmish between good players should play out as expected, aliens trying to close and humans trying to distance. When humans start rushing, its because the aliens are weak.
Accuracy is only a combination of how often and how precisely you hit them. You want to get headshots, but it is very often best to go with body shots with mara because it is easier to keep a good lock with them. Mara is very low to the ground, and thus has its angle drawbacks. Also, movement IS very important. If you're hitting a human with the mara's well-known constant stream of hits, it is incredibly easy for them to get away simply by jumping. If a human gets distance, you're in trouble unless you're good with movement, and THAT becomes the deciding factor.
-
Maras are the most predictable alien because all their movement relies on jumping. If they are away from a wall, they are toast against a human that knows how gravity works.
-
Agreed. I've been an Adv. Mara and gone up against a rifle-wielding noob, I didn't stand a chance. Perhaps it was because of the open space and lack of walls to jump off of.
-
Maras are the most predictable alien because all their movement relies on jumping. If they are away from a wall, they are toast against a human that knows how gravity works.
Not always true. Ever heard of the way mara is often split into two categories, ground mara and jumping mara? There are plenty of maras out there who never have to jump to kill even good humans. However, many of the good, and all of the best humans, force the mara into jumping. However, I usually only have to jump once during these situations to get my bearings back, and it isn't that bad.
-
Maras are the most predictable alien because all their movement relies on jumping. If they are away from a wall, they are toast against a human that knows how gravity works.
Not always true. Ever heard of the way mara is often split into two categories, ground mara and jumping mara? There are plenty of maras out there who never have to jump to kill even good humans. However, many of the good, and all of the best humans, force the mara into jumping. However, I usually only have to jump once during these situations to get my bearings back, and it isn't that bad.
I'm not trying to be tit for tat, but that goes back to what I said about accuracy. If a human allows a mara to get close (via rushing), the winner is who is more accurate. But good humans can out maneuver a mara far easier than most other aliens. Maras are all about momentum but that is easy to predict if you look for it. The only reason I think maras are successful is because most people don't expect them.
-
It is true that mara is much easier to out maneuver than other aliens, with the probably exception of the dretch, but it is hard to say that whoever is more accurate will win the fight, since there are variables in the damage each will do with said accuracy. Hypothetically, if you take a mara that doesn't miss headshots and a helmeted human that doesn't miss any shots, the mara will always win if it gets close, 100% of the time, unless the human is using a flamer, luci, or (depending on the distance) a painsaw.
That may be taken as too much of a stretch for an example, but my point is that the damages are different. If a human DOES get that close with two equally skilled opponents, the mara will, theoretically, have the advantage, accuracy aside.
-
Yes, but there is no "Mara beat human S2 armor" equation. Even the best player has been killed by a nudist.
-
(http://www.ymessengerblog.com/images/emoticon_shh.jpg)
-
Just pointing out that Tremulous is a game, not a statistical emulation. Anyone can kill anyone, given time, location, luck, and allies. This is important to remember. The one key element of killing is teamwork, though a good stealth attack can help. I once got four or five kills by dropping down from a vantage as a dretch, headbiting, and running fast to hide again.
-
Just pointing out that Tremulous is a game, not a statistical emulation. Anyone can kill anyone, given time, location, luck, and allies. This is important to remember. The one key element of killing is teamwork, though a good stealth attack can help. I once got four or five kills by dropping down from a vantage as a dretch, headbiting, and running fast to hide again.
Indeed that is true, but team work is more necessary for humans than aliens this is part of the reason (I think) that we see these crazy stats of matches won/lost for each team.
the n00bs and newbs go to humans
the mildly experienced players go to aliens so the team doesn't kill them right off
the good players ditto or pull the weight of the entire team on humans
the best players go either
-
Not necessarily. I've seen it the other way. Like yesterday, I was playing a match, and hummies repeatedly dominated the aliens. (This was also one of my best games of the week)
While neither team was necessarily noobish, the hummies were more experienced? and quite well prepared.
About maras, I just don't let them get near me. I killed a dretch and lisk while running backwards with a shotgun. It took me 10 shots, so it's not that easy. Then again, sprint can save your hide.
To be a good alien, don't stand out in the open, or think that stealth will save you. I killed three or four wall-hangers yesterday when they should have rushed.
-
About maras, I just don't let them get near me. I killed a dretch and lisk while running backwards with a shotgun. It took me 10 shots, so it's not that easy. Then again, sprint can save your hide.
To be a good alien, don't stand out in the open, or think that stealth will save you. I killed three or four wall-hangers yesterday when they should have rushed.
about maras... i experienced the opposite. if they are jumping all around, they are much more likely bite your head off, but when they are close and on the ground, they are just slow, fat-ass dretches with a so huge hitbox that swallows all your shotty sharpnels(?) at once. maras usually make headshots while in air, because jumping requires aiming downwards, so most of the dudes out there are not changing their aim so much while bouncing.
from far away, they are swallowing less of the bullets, especially when speeded up - so i found the only useful way to kill them to let them close, dodge 'em, and give them a close range round of ammo.
-
It's not always about really aiming downwards. Usually, when I jump, it's to close the distance between me and a human, OR, if they get too close, to open a little bit up. In either case, when I jump I aim only slightly downwards most of the time. If you're aiming too far down, a good human that is already moving in a confusing dodging pattern will only confuse you even more because of where you're looking. Also, using a marauder from the ground actually gives you a mobility advantage, as well as a MUCH greater attacking opportunity, as you can land many more hits consecutively while on the ground than while in the air. Practice a bit, and headshotting from the ground becomes incredibly simple.
-
Yes, but there is no "Mara beat human S2 armor" equation. Even the best player has been killed by a nudist.
1 vs. 1, mara and human = full hp, mara is the 'best player,' mara pwnz human. end of story.
-
Simply, no. *I've* killed maras naked before. And he was good. Both (I believe) were at full HP, and there was little maneuvering room. We met around a corner, and I pulled a run and gun.
-
Simply, no. *I've* killed maras naked before. And he was good. Both (I believe) were at full HP, and there was little maneuvering room. We met around a corner, and I pulled a run and gun.
What weapon were you using?
-
Simply, no. *I've* killed maras naked before. And he was good. Both (I believe) were at full HP, and there was little maneuvering room. We met around a corner, and I pulled a run and gun.
If you are naked and you are able to kill a full HP Marauder, that means the Marauder is even shitter at Tremulous than you are, which is quite the accomplishment. Stop acting like a freak lucky moment is standard practice.
-
If you are naked and you are able to kill a full HP Marauder, that means the Marauder is even shitter at Tremulous than you are, which is quite the accomplishment. Stop acting like a freak lucky moment is standard practice.
Have to agree with you; Chaos I like you but you really need to play more trem.
-
I'm just getting really tired of the fucking "Trem is not a statistic formula" shit. Is there anyone here who is dumb enough to need to be told that? Don't post such obvious statements in argument.
-
Is there anyone here who is dumb enough to need to be told that? Don't post such obvious statements in argument.
If people keep bringing their freakish, lucky situations as standard practice, yes.
-
Is there anyone here who is dumb enough to need to be told that? Don't post such obvious statements in argument.
If people keep bringing their freakish, lucky situations as standard practice, yes.
(http://www.fool45.com/wp-content/uploads/2006/08/truth.jpg)
in other wordz, +1
-
Yeah, that is where Squirrel is getting all that...
Soon there may be posts on how someone hit a turn 360 bind as an alien attacked and the alien missed, so if you do 360s you'll never get hit...Who made the popcorn?
-
That's why we must remain vigilant and put a stop to people like ChaosSquirrel, who do nothing but spread misinformation.