Tremulous Forum
General => Feedback => Topic started by: SoulAsasiN on January 20, 2008, 09:46:35 am
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OK, so I am new to Tremulous and fully expect to be shredded for my efforts here and called n00b etc etc..but it seems the norm so I won't take it personally.
Humans can purchase claymore mines, attach them to walls, ceilings and floors, the mine is equipped with a motion sensor...anything comes within a certain distance gets toasted.
Now the catch here is the word "anything"...this will force close co-operation and communication between humans to avoid n00bs, (such as myself), running off and getting nailed, and possibly nessesitate Dretches to work in concert with the bigger Aliens to "clear the way", (hey at least it will give newbie Dretches something useful to do...be the claymore biatch, if your gonna feed in anycase?). The whole concept here is to force teamwork.
Claymores have been suggested before, but only human friendly ones...the idea that these are just as deadly to humans as Aliens puts a whole new spin on it.
Let the pain begin...
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Wrong section, you want feedback. Also, the idea of mines etc has already been discussed.
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I am still thinking to put an alt-fire proximity grenade onto my fun-TODO list )
(Nothing can do a worse damage to a gameplay than a bouncy lucy alt-fire, and even then it worked out)
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/me tried making a mine
link to pic (http://koti.mbnet.fi/anania/mine.jpg)
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That looks cool, to limit its effectiveness, you can shorten the proximity sensor, give it a decent blast range, but also directionally focus it.
A short sensor range allows the possibility for a rifleman to set it up in a corridor, wait for his victim and then snipe the mine to set it off.
The proximity range would have to be something like half the width of a corridor, thereby allowing safe passage to those that know its there.
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How about a breakbeam mine? Remember the "Polaroid mines" in Half-Life?
The idea being that the trigger is limited to a line and not a volume, in this way positioning of the mine requires a little more thought as to which classes of alien you want it to be effective against. Do you put it mid-height in a corridor so that you can crouch-walk beneath the beam while tyrants will hit it? Put it high up to catch goons and marauders trying to jump onto the reactor? etc....
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How about a breakbeam mine? Remember the "Polaroid mines" in Half-Life?
Since lasertrip-mines are already used in Gloom, I do not think they will show up in Tremulous anytime soon.
Excerpt from http://teamreaction.planetquake.gamespy.com/gloom/engineer.htm:
(http://satgnu.net/upload/tremulous/q2g-mines.jpg)
Mine
Mines do medium damage, but with allot of them in same place, you can take out the smaller classes and do considerable damage to the larger breeds of aliens. However, it's not the best protection for a base. Mines are simple to put and they have little cost.
Cost to build: 30 points
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everything is welcomed what can prevent camping :-)
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everything is welcomed what can prevent camping :-)
Mines do not prevent camping, they only strengthen the power of it. Smack a lot of mines at your entries and sit behind it on your turrets.
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Prob"e"ably you are right as you have a way more experience in trem, but as you are not playing on other servers nor u've experienced how it is to be new in the game, you might forget that a new player who doesn't know what to do in the game, will be much more offensive if he doesn't run into the wall of "DON'TFEED, CAMP FFS!", "DON'TLEAVEBASEFUCKERFEEDER", "!VOTEKICK'UnnamedPlayer'forMINDLESSFEEDING", "KICK'#Newbie1'forGOTOFUNZONENOOBUFEDGTFO', or 'UnnamedPlayer was killed by UBERPRO' 'T:UDESERVEITUNOOBURUINMYGAME'.
I guess if builders would have more power (what is already one of the biggest advantages of tremulous amongst other fps games), and they noobness would be controlled by 'denybuild' and 'designate' - as it is most of the time -, new players wouldn't be so frightened to go out and fight.
Just remember the 6/7 jetcamper from today.
many of the more experienced gamers are teaching the new ones to camp. if they'd trust in their base more (and would be much fun to be a builder to make such funny events as this mine stuff), there could be a chance to shrink the gap between Unnameds and "so-very-1337-fakename-ownz0rz".
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shortcut: trust in your base so u will not teach camping...
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or something like that :-D
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@Lava:
A good alien team would wait till they get a decient amount of evos, then send a weak runner into the mine stack. Say a dretch. Dretch blows up all mines, human base left defenseless, because builders spent all money on mines, and then tyrants and goons rush in and eat everyone.
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Well I thought he meant that mines cost creds, but now you guys are talking about bp so... I'd say you need at least a cred option for the mines, because that enables soldiers to place them anywhere across the map.
Good idea i think! :)
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@Lava:
A good alien team would wait till they get a decient amount of evos, then send a weak runner into the mine stack. Say a dretch. Dretch blows up all mines, human base left defenseless, because builders spent all money on mines, and then tyrants and goons rush in and eat everyone.
1st: I guess Lava was speaking 30build points in Gloom terms not at Tremulous terms. I guess mines would be as expensive as turrets (maximum). credit option would be way better, as mooseberry said, to be placed ANYWHERE on the map. see old Duke Nukem for a leisure+pleasure examlpe.
2nd: good team...? you're talking about a VERY LUCKY COINCIDENCE at an ffa game (consult Murphy), or a scrim between clans (who are mostly able to avoid a line of laser excluding being a big-ass lazy alien as a tyrant who deserves that amount of damage more than being decreased to the HP of a goon at theese 1.2rules-servers).
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Just a quick thought. I don't think highly of mines but here's my opinion of a good thing to put in this idea for the sake of discussion: What if they were invisible except to one class? That's just a raw thing, I'll leave others to build on that if they want.
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Well people whined that the tyrant has too much hp so it got neutered as a result. [/sarcasm]
And dracone that sounds like a neat idea, but I'm too lazy to really give it a thought :)
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Just came up with another little thought, a quick addition to my previous idea: Only grangers can see the mines. This would give the grangers another purpose besides just building. Also, at S2, Advanced Grangers could be able to use their spit to actually mark the mines for the other aliens. Now wandering grangers will actually have a reason to venture out of base areas besides being nuisances and getting forward structures up.
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Well people whined that the tyrant has too much hp so it got neutered as a result.
that's a flat out lie
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Kev.....sarcasm. It was in response to Optimus saying it got reduced to a goon. I'll edit the above to show that :) Sorry if it wasn't clear.
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Kev.....sarcasm. It was in response to Optimus saying it got reduced to a goon. I'll edit the above to show that :) Sorry if it wasn't clear.
there have been people who said things like that and were completely serious >.>
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Heh that doesn't surprise me. I know 1.2 will surpass many expectations ;D
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Kev.....sarcasm. It was in response to Optimus saying it got reduced to a goon. I'll edit the above to show that :) Sorry if it wasn't clear.
there have been people who said things like that and were completely serious >.>
omg where did i made the mistake?
as i remember at 1.2 rules servers the tyrant has less HP that before... isn't that true?
eeer.. maybe i don't remember well how much less... but for destroying a camper base it's already not too much... and to taste the chaingun to a decent battlesuiter, it's also not too much... not to mention the situation when you encounter two of them...
i just beleive aliens are not overpowered, as it can be balanced enough with obvious human teamwork. <.<
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Don't worry, I'm not accusing you of anything. And I believe the tyrant has 350 hp in 1.2? It wasn't reduced that much.
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Don't worry, I'm not accusing you of anything. And I believe the tyrant has 350 hp in 1.2? It wasn't reduced that much.
well, turn every Chuck Norris jokes into Steven Seagal jokes. The mainframe is the same and it's just as funny, but... man, be serious, Chuk has +50 HP!
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Don't worry, I'm not accusing you of anything. And I believe the tyrant has 350 hp in 1.2? It wasn't reduced that much.
well, turn every Chuck Norris jokes into Steven Seagal jokes. The mainframe is the same and it's just as funny, but... man, be serious, Chuk has +50 HP!
:D
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but as you are not playing on other servers nor u've experienced how it is to be new in the game
I don't? I wasn't? That's new to me.
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but as you are not playing on other servers nor u've experienced how it is to be new in the game
I don't? I wasn't? That's new to me.
no, you don't play at other servers as far as i know. i didn't see you elsewhere in the last one year, never seen your stats, never heard of you. except one case... EDIT: that is not even worth mentioning again on the second thought.
and "Someone said Timbo was trying to make Gloom for Quake3, so I went to look and saw it was not Gloom, but something different, something weird, something whoefully bugged. It was also a lot of fun, and it still is. I can't really remember any of the newbie things I did, since we mostly just screwed around on the half-done maps." can also mean that you haven't been a real newbie to tremulous ever, as it wasn't really found out when you played it first.
+ i wasn't talking about you but about how safe bases are influencing teamleader players and admins to "educate" new players.
and i think there was no negative flavour in my post towards you. being different is not instantly bad. ;-)
i just say maybe some people can't look with the eyes of a newb, what point of view should be also included when discussing balance issues.
hmmm and how do the guys fix the camping problem in Gloom?
i downloaded it and as I could judge from 5 minutes of gameplay, the map itself has some small tunnels what are maybe unable to be set up with theese mines. gloomer anyone?
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<trys_to_get_back_on_topic>
How about this idea:
mine is bought at the arm (credits)
mine is thrown like a nade but a bit faster
mine sticks to the wall/floor/ceiling
two varieties: laser trigger and proximity trigger?
does damage to humans and aliens
mabye have a s3 mine that is cloaked but not as much damage?
mabye all mines are invisible to some aliens?
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I haven't read the whole page, so this may have already been suggested but:
You could set the up to be proximity detonated, but also if something passes infront of them. That way who have to set them down facing the way you expect the enemy to approach them from, similar to a real-word claymore.
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similar to a real-word claymore.
"real world claymores" are either remote detonated or triggered by pressure (e.g. someone stepping on it)
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So...
Why again exactly do the humans need more defensive weapons?
Don't the aliens get any new toys?
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Well... Small alien "mines" were suggested before. Small acid sacks that explode when a human treads on the surrounding creep.
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So...
Why again exactly do the humans need more defensive weapons?
Don't the aliens get any new toys?
1. Makes the game more fun
2. i'M SURE WE'LL THINK OF SOMETHING. ;)
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Here is a quick mine I whipped up in under 30 min so it's not very good, but it is just an idea I got so... ;)
Also textures need work I know, but I was lazy so... I will make them awesome if I see the need to continue on it. :)
(http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2202/2210380543_8f44b6a439.jpg)
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Dear Optimus, the fact that your all-seeing eye does not spot me on different servers than SatGNU doesn't mean that I don't play on other servers. You know, you might just be playing with or against me under some lame alias. And you have, much more often than you probably realize.
Also, since I started playing Tremulous at some point, I also had to learn the game mechanics at some point, just like any other player. The time I was learning the game mechanics was the time I was a newbie.
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Dear Lava Croft, you made my day.
share us the gloom experiences with camping vs mines pls. or.. any gloomers nearby?
I'd try it more but i need to study nowadays.
it is the most similar game to trem i'd guess.
I liked the previous mine model better -.-
they could automatically blow after a time... or sooner or later they would flood the entire map if aliens are not that active.
placing them on small escaping spots could reduce eggspamming a bit...
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Great idea but aliens need some new things as well to balance it out. explodin barricades which destroy everything without 50 metres.
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So...
Why again exactly do the humans need more defensive weapons?
Don't the aliens get any new toys?
Funny you mentioned it...
There could be a whole new alien class this could be called the "generally sneaky uber-1337 alien" or something
It could be all sorts of new ideas:
Cloaking!
A creep ball thing like a combination of granger spit and a mine
A bunch of other ideas that I forgot ???
Now about the human mine:
naked humans -- and suits? -- could see the mine better than aliens but not how or what range it is triggered
humans with helmets could see little bubbles around prox. mines (kind of like in KOTOR) and lines for laser-triggered mines
btw. KOTOR means: Star Wars: Knights Of The Old Republic, pity humans cant have lightsabers in trem
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Funny you mentioned it...
There could be a whole new alien class this could be called the "generally sneaky uber-1337 alien" or something
Basilisk anyone?
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Gloom mines make each other explode, so you usually only needed one Hatchling (equivalent of the Dretch) to blow up most mines places in a tight hallway. Camping in Gloom is way different from Tremulous, merely because the base structures are much weaker, and every Alien class can attack the defenses. Apart from that, Gloom had sported some serious explosives, which more often than not resulted in someone at least once per game mis-dropping his C4 or mis-aiming his rocket (or better, have a small Alien 'catch' the rocket), which meant most of the team and their defenses being blown up. That said, do not think Gloom was without camping, it's simple rock-paper-scissor system allowed for easy camping, only it was(is?) much less dependant on the base.
Thanks to a certain coder taking over the main Gloom development and making changes to the game he deemed 'cool', Gloom games would drag on and on and on and on and on, helped by some serious chokepoint maps, where the only thing between the Human and the Alien base would be a hallway about as wide as the hitbox of a fat Alien (Stalker). In this regard, Tremulous games are far less stale, and much more susceptible to change. This is all what I think about it though, I haven't been with Gloom from the start, so I would not really know how it was in the early days.
A side note: If you make mines cost build points (which is logical) the chances of them being spammed all over the map and actually being useful are rather slim.
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That said, do not think Gloom was without camping, it's simple rock-paper-scissor system allowed for easy camping, only it was(is?) much less dependant on the base.
No wonder Norfenstein goes bug-eyed and screams "Tremulous does not do paper rock scissors!!!!!" at random times in IRC. Then we give him his meds and the Gloom nightmares pass.
Thanks to a certain coder taking over the main Gloom development and making changes to the game he deemed 'cool', Gloom games would drag on and on and on and on and on, helped by some serious chokepoint maps, where the only thing between the Human and the Alien base would be a hallway about as wide as the hitbox of a fat Alien (Stalker).
No wonder you hate modders so much. :(
This post has been very enlightening.
A side note: If you make mines cost build points (which is logical) the chances of them being spammed all over the map and actually being useful are rather slim.
Logically they should work like grenades, costing credits and rewarding kills. Practically speaking, they are useful for catching fleeing Aliens if you cleverly put them in escape routes. You could balance them by giving them a very short (2 sec) timer which would give the Alien enough time to defuse it by slashing the mine. If you're paying attention you can get them in time, if they're in a novel location or you're half-asleep you get hit. Price them at around 300 credits (not worth a Dretch) and people won't spam them quite so much.
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Funny you mentioned it...
There could be a whole new alien class this could be called the "generally sneaky uber-1337 alien" or something
Basilisk anyone?
Yes I thought about it but this would have too many abilities to keep just lisk and adv lisk
something else i thought of:
a sort of hybrid granger/lisk that can build special things like:
a timed acid launcher (and for s3-s4 a cloaked version) aim it, build it and RUN! 5 sec later it explodes like the OM and shoots a goon barb the cloaked version would be very useful during SD to take down the arm
also the 300 credit idea sounds pretty good but it also needs to be low enough to allow enough mines to be useful
also have special mines (or a setting on standard mine?) that makes them only blow up if a goon/rant/whatever goes by instead of wasting them on dretches, these would have to be more expensive, I also like the idea of the 2 sec delay
an interesting idea for a sticky mine is this:
aliens have resorted to egg spam
1. stick a mine to a egg
2. dretch spawns
3. mine blows up killing the dretch and egg
4. you see on the chat: "WTF? SHIT YOU ASS SPAWN CAMPER!"
5. ;D ;D ;D
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I can't wait to see the tk whining from this.
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Maybe if you have a helmet or bsuit on, the mines are kind of glowy red or something, that way it would be easier to spot.
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It's been discussed, and decided that mines wouldn't carry a trem "feel"
they'd either do too much damage and become incredibly cheap (fights tend to last 2-10 seconds, tops), or not even make a scratch
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Well I think it could work. :)
:mine: :tyrant: :tyrant: :tyrant: :tyrant: :tyrant: :tyrant:
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@Risujin: The rock-paper-scissor mechanics is what made Gloom into a seriously mind-numbing affair.
That 'certain coder' was not exactly a modder, the creators of Gloom actually handed the source over to him, so he could babysit it.
The mines should in my view just be treated like any buildable, building them should remove points from the build pool, not cost money like grenades. A grenade is a weapon, a mine is not a weapon but a buildable. At least, in my small world.