Tremulous Forum
General => Feedback => Topic started by: Nux on February 28, 2008, 06:38:53 pm
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What would you think to having a server which banned people for a short amount of time for not getting good enough scores? The effect would be that those who wish to play against better players need only wait for the less good players to be banned. If you get banned then there's always next time (Perhaps even a ban duration of just one day).
I realise this would perhaps be an idea better suited to an improved scoring system. Using the current system those who truly helped their team might still be banned because they didn't do much killing.
Any comments or people who think they could do this?
EDIT: I will mention that I want to see your responses to have an idea if anyone would regularly visit a server with this system. I don't expect everyone to like it (which is sort of the idea) and so a poll wouldn't give the information I want.
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What would you think to having a server which banned people for a short amount of time for not getting good enough scores? The effect would be that those who wish to play against better players need only wait for the less good players to be banned. If you get banned then there's always next time (Perhaps even a ban duration of just one day).
I realise this would perhaps be an idea better suited to an improved scoring system. Using the current system those who truly helped their team might still be banned because they didn't do much killing.
Any comments or people who think they could do this?
anything you can score players by is too relative to opponents' skill to realistically use for bans, a good player could easily be banned for playing against a great player while a bad player on the great player's team gets to play unharmed. also, if you think people camp hard to avoid feeding aliens, think about how hard they will camp to avoid bans.
EDIT: i have seen something similar work with humans doing the banning, but you end up with an extremely unfriendly environment.
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not to mention what would happen to builders, dude ^^
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anything you can score players by is too relative to opponents' skill to realistically use for bans, a good player could easily be banned for playing against a great player while a bad player on the great player's team gets to play unharmed.
Just as in a tournament, it would then lead to the great player being able to face the bad player, which presumably he'd win.
also, if you think people camp hard to avoid feeding aliens, think about how hard they will camp to avoid bans.
If the scoring system is improved, simply being on a good players team or camping a lot shouldn't give you the points to continue with.
Also, if you do get banned the duration isn't that long and so you'll get to try again and hopefully do better next time.
not to mention what would happen to builders, dude ^^
Yet again, this isn't a problem so long as the scoring system is improved.
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so it would be an 1.2 feature? <.< >->
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I was thinking more of a mod <.< >.>
This idea won't be for everyone's tastes and it might require more than just a score system change.
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NO!!!! i wub pwning noobs... :P
xD
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you could save all the trouble of modding and make a server and have admins that do it. just saying.
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That kind of server sounds quite cold. I don't want to play with players who have blood in their mouth.
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The server will die in seconds...
take a simple 1 on 1.
not only that. I wouldnt care personally about a server that banned me for doing bad today. There are tonns of better servers out there, with a more friendly community which will HELP you to improve rather than BAN you for being bad ;)
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i guess Nux is only bored <.<
well, many of the european trem legends abandoned the game... he should maybe seek the new stars, like Cady.
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I don't see the banning system work even with the new scoring ideas... Since it always breaks down to 'who is playing atm'... 2 star players 1on1 and one of them gets the banhammer even if they are the cream of elite players... I like the idea of an elitist server but this automated banning system is just harsh... :-\
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I think you might be missing the point here.
NO!!!! i wub pwning noobs... :P
Then this isn't the server for you.
you could save all the trouble of modding and make a server and have admins that do it. just saying.
Admins' wouldn't be consistent enough.
That kind of server sounds quite cold. I don't want to play with players who have blood in their mouth.
This server isn't for you.
Also, I wouldn't call it cold. What I'm proposing here is a sort of 'survival mod' in which players can see how long they stay in and at the same time this provides a possible solution to excessive feeding in public games.
The server will die in seconds...
take a simple 1 on 1.
not only that. I wouldnt care personally about a server that banned me for doing bad today. There are tonns of better servers out there, with a more friendly community which will HELP you to improve rather than BAN you for being bad ;)
So long as there aren't enough people willing to take part in the daily competition- you're right. Even '1 v 1's, though, are acceptable reasons to get kicked out of the daily tournament. It's all in the spirit of competitiveness and isn't meant for those who are new to the game and still learning.
i guess Nux is only bored <.<
well, many of the european trem legends abandoned the game... he should maybe seek the new stars, like Cady.
Nah, I'm not bored :P I just wondered if people would be interested in this idea.
I don't see the banning system work even with the new scoring ideas... Since it always breaks down to 'who is playing atm'... 2 star players 1on1 and one of them gets the banhammer even if they are the cream of elite players... I like the idea of an elitist server but this automated banning system is just harsh... :-\
I'll say again, if they lost the '1 v 1' I'd say that's equivalent to losing your round and should try harder next time. The scoring system can only balance it so far, I'll admit. Still, the ban duration would be for a very short time so no big loss.
More pressing matters are, for example, how do you stop people leaving to avoid the bans? Perhaps you can only join the server once per day, or already low scoring people get banned as soon as they disconnect.
This is NOT a noob-bash. I'm a forgiver and encourager of new players. As you've pointed out, this is only one server of many others to play on. It's there for those who want to compete in a more harsh setting. Those who don't have no need to worry about it.
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you dont get it... 1 vs 1, you loose, you get banned, the pro guy stays on the server. Another one comes, getting owned, auto-banned etc. You wont be able to get > 2 players there in general, not even taking in account that noone will bother with such a server (Smokey's pro server died afaik) and it will be very hard to get a decent number of players for something else than just a tournament.
Another game mode : 1 vs 1 tournament? ::)
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So what is your improved scoring system, then?
What determines truly helping one's team? Just building, or other things too?
How will it be weighted?
How easy would it be to abuse to artificially raise one's score?
Would there be a penalty for losing the match? If so, how heavily would it be weighted?
In order to keep players on the server, you give them one and only one chance a day, and automatically ban them when they leave. Or maybe only automatically ban them for leaving if they aren't doing well. In order to keep them on the server.
How many players do you intend to ban per match? Will the server have the problem of whittling down everyone until only one player is left?
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@Troy: I do understand what you're saying and I stand by my response. Yes, the amount of players willing to play on such a server is an issue and I've already stated that this is what I want to find out from this thread. I didn't even expect most players would like it and some might be annoyed by it for some reason (though there's only the servers popularity at risk), I only want to know if there are a select few willing to regularly play on a server which doesn't restrict players to those who know the password and yet keeps the average skill level to a higher figure than usual.
@kozak: The handy thing about this sort of idea is that it's highly 'tweakable'. The new scoring system (which is being discussed here (http://tremulous.net/forum/index.php?topic=7155.0)) would give statistics about tasks such as building, destroying structures, dying etc. and then from these statistics a balance would have to be found. If you don't know what this involves, I'll just say: Statistical Models, Design + Implementation and a helluvalot of testing.
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Well the most apparent thing to me, using the current scoring system, would be measuring the kill/death spread, and kicking the players who have a negative number more than half their playing time. Probably would only want it to trigger at the end of games, when there are a minimum number of clients. Tremulous is a team game, and 3 people can't really play at all when the fourth got kicked for being a noob.
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I don't think using the current score system is a good idea. There are useful roles (builders and base destroyers) which should be taken into account as well.
Also, when you say 'half their playing time' do you mean before they disconnect or before the game ends or before their given time expires? Some combination of these should be considered as no one time period is completely fair. Consider the player who joined a game right when their base is destroyed and gets rampaged by tyrants before the game ends and he is then banned. This system would require a lot of tweaking.
I'd also say that the 3 players would be better off without the 'noob' as they would now have:
*Less wait in spawn queue
*Less kills till next stage
*Less feeding because of careless 'noobishness' (since none of the others were kicked)
I'll say thanks for the suggestion but I don't think it would be so simple to make it fair.
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I'd play. Just to try, I see no harm in trying.
These kind of ideas need to be tried, not to talked about.
You just need someone to make it for you, if you cannot do it yourself...
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This is true.
I can't make it myself (or rather: it would require learning all the programming majiggery from my current near total lack of knowledge before even starting to work on it).
So instead, I decided to throw the idea out there for whoever's interested.
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This is true.
We will have to find one.
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YOOOOHOOOOOOOOOO, Little programmer/modder/whateverwhoiswillingtotakeonthisinsanelyinanequest- WE HAVE SOME GOODIES FOR YOU IF YOU HOP RIGHT IN THIS HOOKED NET HERE.
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What about builders?
They will get fucked over, and presto, a dead game.
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What about builders?
They will get fucked over, and presto, a dead game.
But..the new scoring sytem...mumble mumble...
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anything you can score players by is too relative to opponents' skill to realistically use for bans, a good player could easily be banned for playing against a great player while a bad player on the great player's team gets to play unharmed. also, if you think people camp hard to avoid feeding aliens, think about how hard they will camp to avoid bans.
EDIT: i have seen something similar work with humans doing the banning, but you end up with an extremely unfriendly environment.
Agree. I don't need to add anything to that.
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Just join satgnu while i am emo-banning that way within a few rounds the worthless players will be gone and you can have gg.