Tremulous Forum
Community => Strategies and Tactics => Topic started by: Lava Croft on July 14, 2008, 10:26:41 am
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So, since more and more people seem to think you are a 'noob' when you rush the enemy base early in the game, I thought a poll would be nice.
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Very early, as in spawn and go can work well. Esp to cover your own move and to get them mid-move.
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Totally pr0 as long as you have some good offense on your team, if you don't have others working with you it could be epic failure.
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I wonder how many others will look at the title and think of things like "Fly By Night" and "2112"...
I've seen the early rush work many times, but only if your team has good attackers (and at least one good defender staying back, even if that defender is also building). At best, you end the game in under four minutes since the other team has deconned their OM or RC to prepare for a move, and are completely unable to defend against the incoming onslaught; and at worst you rough them up while they're moving and keep them from either discovering your own base move and new location, or giving trouble to your builders while they have plenty of time to get the base Just Right.
I've always been of the opinion that 90% of the people who say "Don't do that, noob" are themselves either pussies or just stupid, preferring to camp most of the game away and go for a win during sudden death.
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98% of the players in tremulous are somewhere between Pro and Noob, so as their skills. so the question is quite senseless because the results vary every time.
also depends so much on the map and the layout.
i can present you an early rush wich is as noob as you could never imagine, and on a lucky day once in a while, every half decent player can show a 3 minute game killing enemy base by himself.
[EDIT]:and don't forget about the number of the players. when playing like 2 or 3vs3 or something like that, i think it is quite unpolite to painsaw or goonrape the enemy base.
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I see no relation between the number of players and Tremulous' ultimate goal, the destruction of enemy spawns.
And I see 3 people actually voted yes... Sigh.
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i guess the relation is that if there are only a few players in the game, it easily turns into a stone-scissor-paper action rather than fun playing if you are going straight to base killing.
as the ultimate goal is having fun and not the spawnkilling, there is no reason to destroy a lonely base while the 2-3 enemy dudes are searching for game action. especially if its because you simply choosen the other corridor than they did.
Uncreation nicely fixes this problem by opening new doors.
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I don't see the difference, a spawn is a spawn and therefore it must be destroyed.
I have tons of fun if there are opponents trying to rush our base, and loads of action too!
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i see you don't see. :-)
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i see you don't see. :-)
There is nothing about 'fun' in the manual.
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I play by David's signature. ;)
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You would be surprised how fun Tremulous is if you actually try to kill the enemy spawns, instead of trying to reach the next stage.
Or am I being silly now?
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Rushing early as an Alien is very common where I play. But I don't see it happen too much on the Humans side unless the Aliens have less skill. (As S1)
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The trouble with an early human rush (on ATCS) is that they have to run all the way back to base to refill/regen/upgrade gear, and the farthest forward they can reasonably get is right outside of the alien base, where they end up having to camp.
Aliens don't have that issue, since they can just pull back a moment to regen, then jump back into the fray, and it's a simple matter to get by the initial 3 turrets and munch on spawning humans, hop out of the base for a second, go basi/mara and end it.
Personally, my favorite thing to do as aliens is dretch flank through the middle the second I spawn, and attack all the humans camping the long hallway... easy mara or goon in the first 10 seconds of the game.
Edit in response to the following post:
The problem with humans storming into the alien base right away (on atcs) is that acid tubes slow them down, and do at least 4 dmg. This means that only 1 shot is required for a defending dretch to kill a human, while it would take the human 5 shots to take down the dretch. Also, dretches have the advantage of radar, and close quarters inside their own base. So unless you're looking to give the alien team 2 goons with no positive return for yourself, an early human rush (inside of the alien base) is foolish, and dare I say it? Not pr0.
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Early rushes at Stage1 are actually very easy for Humans, since when they flood the Alien base, no Alien can evolve with all those Humans around.
It's merely the Human nature of Tremulous players to get all scared when there's some Aliens around, which makes it look like their rushes are easier to execute or more effective.
This is of course apart from the fact that a Dretch cannot destroy spawns, whereas a Rifle can destroy Eggs.
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You would be surprised how fun Tremulous is if you actually try to kill the enemy spawns, instead of trying to reach the next stage.
Or am I being silly now?
No, you're not being silly, but it can be unrewarding, and stick you as a dretch vs battlesuit for quite sometime if you are unlucky.
But of course, the game wasn't designed for people not being unlucky. :)
I usually try to nib the base as mara, it's quite fun.
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David, TinMan and Rocinante said pretty much everything I was going to say, so I'll just have to say "word", "hells, yes" and "can I get a witness?".
(I thought it was about really early Rush, like before they got Neil Peart. Although I consider anything before Moving Pictures to be Early Rush, I also consider anything before All The World's a Stage to be Early, Early Rush. Early, Early, Early Rush would be the first album.)
If you've got the skills to end the game in two minutes while the other team is ditzing around, that's not n00b, that's Pr0. If you ain't got the skills to see that, then that's n00b, in and of itself. I've seen a small-teams (8 to 12 players per side) game on Tremor, Niveus or Karith end in under two minutes because the Humans rushed immediately, leaving one granger to build and or defend in that giant room while the Aliens were off on lone kill sprees, and all were spamming "Defend!" to each other while they hid and waited on the dead side of the map, hoping for easy prey to walk by without a hat on. :) (By the way, the above use of the word "you" is rhetorical, and is directed at no-one in particular, in case you weren't raised where I was and don't speak English in the same strange fashion.)
Rush!!!
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Human rushes actually often work quite well. As was explained in wide-open maps.
They also work on ATCS for me quite often. Here's my favorite ATCS strategy:
At the very beginning of the game two humans spawn. One can build if he wants to, but usually both rush hall. Now, it is imperative right then that whatever number of dretches are sent at those two humans that they eradicate them before they can do damage to the humans. However, if no human dies, all is not lost, even if both are hit. What happens next is both players continue their rush down the hall, reach the corner by the acid tube, and one takes damage while the other crouches and sits to the side to kill all potential attackers of the tube-killer. Once the tube is down, reinforcements should be arriving. The reinforcements promptly take the lead, running into the base, checking if everything is clear, and promptly jumping by the acid tube sitting in the crevace. One person (preferably the same who took damage before) then kills that tube. Bam. If everything goes to plan, 4 kills, 0 deaths for the human team and 3 full-health players sitting in the human base shooting spawning dretches/roaming grangers/eggs whilst more and more reinforcements show up.
This strategy can finish a game in 1:15 or less. It requires perfect execution, though, and will likely never be seen in a scrim as long as the "camper era" us upon us. It is tons of fun in public games, though. Maybe once out of every 100 games I play, I'll get this to happen, and it's an awesome show of power.
Give it a shot sometime. Either do it with friends, or try to get random noobs to do it with you. It's tons of fun. :D
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For some real fun on ATCS, get some cover and move the Reactor right next to the Eggs. It will mostly insta-zap any spawning Dretches, and in general it's just a lot of fun.
Of course, it fails more often than not, but that is part of the fun!
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fun!
This is a side of you I sometimes let myself forget. Thanks for reminding me.
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It's always great to do overly offensive Reactor moves, brings some much-needed fun to those mostly timid games of Tremulous!
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aliens have pwned my team many games using the early rush tactic :'(
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The simple answer is aim ftw.
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It really depends on the map. And if you succeed. If you succeed, pro. Otherwise, noob.
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The simple answer is aim ftw.
Or Unlagged ftw! ::)
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Yesterday I was playing a game somewhere. I'd just spawned as a granger and was building a few acid tubes when suddenly the entire human team filled our base. :o
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Yesterday I was playing a game somewhere. I'd just spawned as a granger and was building a few acid tubes when suddenly the entire human team filled our base. :o
That's how it should be! ;D
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Yup. :)
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I'd argue that humans have to rush early game against good players.
ATCS is the worst example to use because its most boring map ever. Any other maps, humans have to take a forward position or they get stalked/ambushed too easily unless they are forward and in prime locations. Noobs aliens run straight at humans and a lot of people assume that alien will present themselves to be killed. But on a map other than ATCS, aliens have a lot of options in terms of hiding and stalking and aliens (specifically dretches because their walk makes no sound) should always be able to sneak up to a s1 human.
In a skill mismatch, humans can leisurely kill off aliens. But if both teams are experienced, its too hard for humans to move forward if aliens are allowed to get map control. You have to check around every corner. Once a goon comes on the field, its hard to regain territory unless the humans are working as a team.
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Nah, I'd say not always. For instance, I won as humans late game. And I stink. The other team was pretty good (better than all of ours) but then I put on the adrenaline rambo and got a double kill with a shotgun while my buddies went around ftw! Close match though...
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(http://tbn0.google.com/images?q=tbn:j8wtDVcsKxjf9M:http://markflorida.com/skate-shop/logos/Mute-logo1.gif)
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I like rushing the base early
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I like rushing the base early
By your sig, i can tell that you're lost to me forever.
Goodnight, sweet prince.
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By your sig, i can tell that you're lost to me forever.
Let's not mention your malformed sig?
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By your sig, i can tell that you're lost to me forever.
Let's not mention your malformed sig?
::) After all the times people keep bringing up your shitty tattoo, you still insist on trolling the pictures others choose to post?
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Contain your obvious jealousy, child. You are too eager.
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Sadly it only takes one retard alien to feed and camping works.
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and camping works.
And its noobs like you who I cant fucking stand.
You teach these new guys that camping for 50 mins is cool or ok to do when its actually very fucking annoying when people are trying to enjoy the game.
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In stage one, I'm more worried that a saw rush will succeed than it failing.
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and camping works.
And its noobs like you who I cant fucking stand.
You teach these new guys that camping for 50 mins is cool or ok to do when its actually very fucking annoying when people are trying to enjoy the game.
What's wrong with David just stating the truth? How does that make him a 'noob'?
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i voted noob
because the op is a moron \o/
If you misbehave on IRC and get banned for it, do not use this forum to continue your nonsense. -Lava
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and camping works.
And its noobs like you who I cant fucking stand.
You teach these new guys that camping for 50 mins is cool or ok to do when its actually very fucking annoying when people are trying to enjoy the game.
You forgot the beginning of the quote there, the part that says, "Sadly it only takes one retard alien to feed..."
I can almost guarantee you that David never encourages people to camp, except in situations where there's a tactical advantage to it (more than just "Hey, if we sit here, they'll just come to us"). The point he was making is that camping "works" if you get even just one stupid alien who keeps running to where the campers are sitting and getting killed. Overall camping does not work as a general strategy, especially when the other team bands together to flush out the campers.
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... especially when the other team bands together to flush out the campers.
Otherwise, as David was trying to point out above, if you're not going to all go in and flush them out, then one dretch can't try it by himself, or they'll all get lucisuits in short enough time.