Tremulous Forum
General => Feedback => Topic started by: SL!P on July 15, 2008, 02:11:08 pm
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I've been playing tremulous for a while, and I liked it ever since I had first downloaded it. However, in recent times things about the gameplay that made me like the game to me before are changing and drawing me away from playing it. This thing would be the players. Now, I'm not saying the tremulous community is bad or something of that nature what I am saying is that all the veterans are forgetting the simple aspect of teamwork that made the game so unique.
I believe something like this was posted on mercenaries guild a little while back, and I agree with it completely. I had taken a big break from playing (like a month or two) until recently. The common player really has changed, in the fact that they go out alone afraid that if someone goes with them, they might get a few credits, evos, or kills at their expense. Some people (in aliens' case) will let the smaller classes fodder themselves to the human base rather than going to attack with them because they are afraid the turrets will only shoot them and the dretches will get some "free kills". They're no longer concerned on wether or not they win, but how high their score is.
Kill stealing is to some degree part of teamwork. So is getting a free ride into the base possibly at the expense of a stronger class. It all contributes to a better team, letting the tougher classes take more of the heat so that the lesser ones can get some credits or evos.
The only way I can see that would fix this would be to finally release 1.2.
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You can't fix behavioral issues with technology. The solution is to play on better servers. I know it sounds harsh, but votekicking the players who bring down a team actually helps to get a better game in the long run, and drives home the fact that they are doing something wrong. I'm not talking about the new players here, but the ones who will go and make a forward barricade base even when you kill it three times and tell them not to. The ones who don't listen to tactics, just run outside the base to the enemy camping there with a goon or flamer, over and over, without hitting them once, and somehow expect a different result.
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it is because they think you are a feeder, teamkiller noob who will ruin everything that they are fighting for.
grow some kind of reputation ;-)
the best way to do that is to fight the way you wish others would do.
fighting against something is much less effective than introducing how to be better than that.
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it is because they think you are a feeder, teamkiller noob who will ruin everything that they are fighting for.
grow some kind of reputation ;-)
I knew someone would say that.
I do try to use strategy, especially building. Still, people get angry when I'm feeding because I have no evos, the humans are stage three and camping, and none of the upper class aliens are helping me.
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It's nothing to worry about really. If you want real teamwork, you look to the events in the clan scenes, or any other types of organized match-ups of skilled players. Ignore the stupidity of most of the idiots who complain about feeding; players like myself will jump into the human base and kill everything that they can in a suicide rush. Those that are good at it often get to enjoy hearing the idiots on the human team complain that the people in base are still feeding.
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My advice is to find a server you enjoy playing on and play how you like to play. You can't control the other players, but you can try to have fun regardless.
How players play has a great deal to do with the server. On some servers, certain things are expected while others may get you banned. If you find a server you like, you can possibly impact that, and maybe occasionally have a good game with real teamwork.
Now I'll put on my administrator hat for a second...
I know it sounds harsh, but votekicking the players who bring down a team actually helps to get a better game in the long run, and drives home the fact that they are doing something wrong.
That's a very bad idea. As long as players are not actively hurting the game, they should not be banned. If you call a vote against someone who plays in a way you don't like and I am an admin there, it'll be you who gets ejected.
[Edit]Changed a "players" to "servers". D'oh![/Edit]
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I do try to use strategy, especially building. Still, people get angry when I'm feeding because I have no evos, the humans are stage three and camping, and none of the upper class aliens are helping me.
keep in mind that if a fully equipped dude is attacking your base, he needs to kill 5-6 dretches to re-equip himself wigth the same stuffs.
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Truth!
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teamwork is what seperates tremulous from other games... you actually have to use it
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The bulk of the Tremulous community has been this way for a long time now. It was like this when I last played, and that was easily over a year ago. It is the inevitable fate of a multiplayer FPS that isn't based on the pure deathmatch mindset. There will be those who understand what the game is really about, but they will be in the vocal minority. The silent majority will always consist of players who just want to get a high score/pwn some noobs/grief. As the popularity and playerbase of the game grows, the number of the latter type of players will quickly become much larger than the players who really "get" the game. This can dishearten the good type of player, and cause them to either stop playing as much or to find a better (often private) server to play on. This only further aggravates the problem of falling playing standards. A better option for both the community and the individual players would be to try to cultivate the right kind of playing mentality on public servers. Preferably those that have administrators and owners who are with one hand helpful and encouraging to new players, and being strict on more experienced players who should know better with the other.
I'm just sort of rambling, though.
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More truth... and deep thoughts.
I missed you.
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As the popularity and playerbase of the game grows, the number of the latter type of players will quickly become much larger than the players who really "get" the game. This can dishearten the good type of player, and cause them to either stop playing as much or to find a better (often private) server to play on. This only further aggravates the problem of falling playing standards.
--- snip ---
This is generally true in any community, be it revolving around a computer game or in Real Life(tm).
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I doubt anyone is worried about kill stealing. Its more that if I have a goon, I can't maneuver like I need to with dretches running all under my feet. So if you want to be an idiot and rush into the enemies, I stand back. When you die, I can fight without interruption.
Actually, that's helpful as well because it allows the dretches to get some kills without a larger classes hogging all the evos.
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When will people realize that it is impossible to steal kills?
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once lava tell us with his wise words ;D. Nowadays teamwork is very hard to find in tremulous, you need to know the right servers in order to have a good game.
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This is generally true in any community, be it revolving around a computer game or in Real Life(tm).
Of course. :) I believe it bears stating though.
I missed you.
Thanks, I think?
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Can I touch you, Seffy? You still so cute?
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Can I touch you, Seffy? You still so cute?
http://tremulous.net/forum/index.php?topic=1399.msg133949#msg133949
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Can I touch you, Seffy? You still so cute?
http://tremulous.net/forum/index.php?topic=1399.msg133949#msg133949
Who are you really? And what have you done with our Seffy?
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Now I'll put on my administrator hat for a second...
I know it sounds harsh, but votekicking the players who bring down a team actually helps to get a better game in the long run, and drives home the fact that they are doing something wrong.
That's a very bad idea. As long as players are not actively hurting the game, they should not be banned. If you call a vote against someone who plays in a way you don't like and I am an admin there, it'll be you who gets ejected.
Fair enough, but "actively hurting the game" is very subjective. I votekick players who I I think are actively hurting the game. And, generally, when I do it, there doesn't seem to be a lot of dissent. It almost always passes with a healthy margin, even if I'm not on the same team. If I notice someone feeding *our* team over and over, I call them out too. It's not like I use votekicks as a weapon. (Side note: Saw someone the other day who was playing against camping humans and tried to votekick their best player... His vote failed fast, and the kickvote against him passed with a nice X-1. Would you consider him to be "actively hurting the game"? I surely would). And to be fair, I do usually try a denybuild vote or designate vote when the situation calls for it, but it's not always an option.
EDIT: I'd also like to add that when I was a noob, I've been kicked for doing stupid shit, and it unquestionably helped me realize what I was doing wrong.
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Not the best idea, but you may want to learn how to fight by yourself. Once you get good, you might find that teamwork is not as important as you thought. That said, nothing but a bunch of teammates will let you get past a trio of tyrants standing outside your base...
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Now I'll put on my administrator hat for a second...
I know it sounds harsh, but votekicking the players who bring down a team actually helps to get a better game in the long run, and drives home the fact that they are doing something wrong.
That's a very bad idea. As long as players are not actively hurting the game, they should not be banned. If you call a vote against someone who plays in a way you don't like and I am an admin there, it'll be you who gets ejected.
Fair enough, but "actively hurting the game" is very subjective. I votekick players who I I think are actively hurting the game. And, generally, when I do it, there doesn't seem to be a lot of dissent. It almost always passes with a healthy margin, even if I'm not on the same team. If I notice someone feeding *our* team over and over, I call them out too. It's not like I use votekicks as a weapon. (Side note: Saw someone the other day who was playing against camping humans and tried to votekick their best player... His vote failed fast, and the kickvote against him passed with a nice X-1. Would you consider him to be "actively hurting the game"? I surely would). And to be fair, I do usually try a denybuild vote or designate vote when the situation calls for it, but it's not always an option.
EDIT: I'd also like to add that when I was a noob, I've been kicked for doing stupid shit, and it unquestionably helped me realize what I was doing wrong.
We all start somewhere im sure you were not the best player when starting out. unless if there deconning or doing something really bad i leave them be.
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Players in games will not change and that is because they all change in personality when going to the online world. I even admit that my personality is different online, and players express what they don't express in real life, but want to express it. Online is a place where they don't care much about others since they don't know them and that's why some people might act immature and others, mature. A lot of the players are young and don't care about how they act towards others. A lot of them change for certain periods times, due to puberty or things that happened in their social life.
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Well lets all hope you change for the better when you hit puberty then.
People are jerks as they forget there is a human behind the name.
People are newbs as they don't know what they are doing yet.
Both can be solved with communication. (Unless they're a real jerk, then you ban them).
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I think that the internet should be redefined so that it is locked off, and to get on the internet you scan your fingerprint and have a dna sample taken. That way your tied to a real id, and it could be banzored and you would never get on the internets agin.
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I think that the internet should be redefined so that it is locked off, and to get on the internet you scan your fingerprint and have a dna sample taken. That way your tied to a real id, and it could be banzored and you would never get on the internets agin.
No.
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</sarcasm>
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1337 servers are where they kick retards. If there are people doing something stupid, the ones at a higher level should lead them. But if they can't communicate, and just go like lol game lol WASD lol click (mentally), then kick.
I remember my first game... A 3 vs 3 on Niveus. Sure, I was asking "hey how do you get better weapons?" and stuff. After a while, when tyrants emerged, my teammates said to "stay at the base", and I followed. Although the aliens stormed the base with team tactics, it was the teamwork that attracted me to this game.
In overall I think it's just the fact that on large servers, it's hard to yell over a high retardconcentration.
And actually I can't wait until you can actually yell at the retards through voip.
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And actually I can't wait until you can actually yell at the retards through voip.
Ah, please no! No ugly teenage voices going "Pwned!!!" every two seconds...
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Ah, please no! No ugly teenage voices going "Pwned!!!" every two seconds...
You know, you can always mute me if you don't want to be pwned AND laughed at in the face.
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Better yet: have a new vote type "insaneify"
This would make the victim have to listen to recorded sounds that the voters choose, preferably something that NO ONE can stand up to
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Better yet: have a new vote type "insaneify"
This would make the victim have to listen to recorded sounds that the voters choose, preferably something that NO ONE can stand up to
i know just the thing (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6EvO_466ChA)
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I know it sounds harsh, but votekicking the players who bring down a team actually helps to get a better game in the long run,
Illogical, if everyone starts to do that then all the noobs will consider this game a failure and stop playing it, lowering the tremulous population, IS THAT WHAT YOU WANT?
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I know it sounds harsh, but votekicking the players who bring down a team actually helps to get a better game in the long run,
Illogical, if everyone starts to do that then all the noobs will consider this game a failure and stop playing it, lowering the tremulous population, IS THAT WHAT YOU WANT?
apart from necroing, the point is to VOTE-kick. this tells our theoretical noob that he is continuosly making mistakes that are objectively bad, not only judged by one person. ofc the problem is that many people automatically pushes F1 without any interest of its reason.
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The other problem is not *everyone* is smart enough to read the vote, this goes double for a noob. So he would just consider that server/this game bad :/
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I know it sounds harsh, but votekicking the players who bring down a team actually helps to get a better game in the long run,
Illogical, if everyone starts to do that then all the noobs will consider this game a failure and stop playing it, lowering the tremulous population, IS THAT WHAT YOU WANT?
Where do you get this argument from? What makes you think they would want to quit from getting kicked off a server. I'm guessing you must've felt that way before, because I haven't seen any noobs claiming to quit this game after getting votekicked.
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In a community like Tremulous, people either learn about aspects of the game, the tradition, the heritage, and the lifestyle quickly, or they pretty much get eaten up by the learning curve and sod off without so much as a whimper. If they get any attention for whining, they will quickly learn what a useless strategy it is to employ with the kind of player to usually be found herein. Do you really think the game needs new players so badly that we need to coddle people who don't understand that being vote-kicked from a server either means that A) "Hey, maybe I'm being a grommet kook!" or B) "Hey, maybe that particular group of people on that particular server at that particular time acted in that particular manner, but that doesn't mean that is always the case."? Because, I really don't. Tremulous is kind of where I come to get away from people that clueless, and as such, I will either ignore or ridicule them until they either get with the story or go away.
Tremulous. Figure it out (and figure out how to figure it out) or, well, sod off, grommet.