Tremulous Forum
General => Feedback => Topic started by: player1 on October 17, 2008, 05:58:34 am
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OR, Another Type Ten Thread
Presented in Hope that Some May Enjoy its Perusal
Fireteam Co-op Mode Concept
Players join a lounge/chat area where they can join servers directly from chat, following links.
Players join server in HvH FFA DM mode until four players arrive.
In HvH FFA DM Mode: Players spawn with Painsaw and Blaster. Each kill advances weapon though sequence: Rifle/Shotgun/Chaingun/Lasgun/MD/Pulser/Flamer/Luci
At arrival of fourth player, Fireteam Co-op Mode begins.
Last player to join is designated Scout/Rifleman/Point/Recruit. (READY)
Player with greatest number of kills is designated as Team Leader. (TEAM)
Player with second greatest number of kills is designated Second-in-Command. (FIRE)
Player with least amount of kills is designated Assistant Automatic Rifleman. (ASSIST)
Players spawn with different weapons, and can get better weapons, as they progress.
READY spawns with a Rifle, a Blaster, a Helmet, and Light Armor, and can pick up a better weapon by dropping his Rifle. He can also pick up and carry Ammo, and pick up and carry a Medkit, as well as gather Health and Armor tokens. Uses Minimap.
TEAM spawns with a Rifle, a Blaster, three Grenades, a Helmet, and Light Armor, and can also drop his Rifle to pick up a better weapon. He can also pick up and carry Ammo, and pick up and carry two Medkits, as well as gather Health and Armor tokens. Uses Minimap & Command Pane.
FIRE spawns with a Chaingun, a Heavy Blaster, and a Battlesuit. He can drop his Chaingun to pick up another weapon. He can also pick up, carry and drop increased Ammo, pick up and carry a Medkit, and gather Health and Armor tokens. Uses Minimap and Command Pane.
ASSIST spawns with a Rifle, a Heavy Blaster, and a Battlesuit. He can drop his Rifle to pick up another weapon. He can also pick up, carry and drop increased Ammo, as well as pick up, carry and drop up to two Medkits, and gather Health and Armor tokens. Uses Minimap. Note enhanced carry and drop ability.
All four FIRETEAM members must complete a Co-op Level against a variety of bot entities, armed with whatever weapons/classes the mapmaker prefers. Also, each team member gets a certain limited number of respawns before a forced restart of the level (READY – 4, TEAM – 2, FIRE – 3, ASSIST – 3). Needs implementation of new features, including minimap/command pane/keyboard voice commands. Using taunt bind would produce different taunt for each team member: READY – TEAM – FIRE – ASSIST. Each Co-op Level to be Goal-Oriented: Defend the Structure, Capture the Waypoint, Capture and Keep, Defend the Waypoint, Flip-the-Switch-and-Lower-the-Drawbridge-then-Open-the-Crypt-and-Defeat-the-Megalo-Rant, etc.
Mapmakers can scatter Medkits, Ammo Boxes (Rifle and Chaingun) dropped weapons, Heavy Blasters, Grenades, Health tokens and Ammo tokens throughout the map, as well as enemy bot entities, and map-specific goals, triggers, switches, doors, drawbridges, elevators and the like. Levels can also be time-specific, as well as goal-oriented. If enemy entities are Human, players can drop their own weapon and pick up a better one. Players must always carry a Blaster or a Heavy Blaster. Players cannot drop their Blaster, but running over a dropped Heavy Blaster or a dead opponent (or teammate corpse) with a HB will automatically replace a Blaster with Airburst/Shockwave Heavy Blaster.
Up to seven players can play Fireteam Co-op; new arrivals spawn as READY members or can spectate and act to replace players who quit, pause or are otherwise AFK. If more than seven players attempt to spawn, the server will create a Squad of two Fireteams. If more than eleven players attempt to spawn, the server will create a Patrol of three Fireteams. If more than 15 players attempt to spawn, the server will create a Platoon of two Squads comprised of four Fireteams. At each level, the players are rated on skill and time on server, with command positions awarded accordingly. (Kills minus Deaths divided by Time on Server.)
Server will remain in Co-op Mode as long as FIRE and TEAM players remain on server. In the event either should need to Quit, FIRE can be field-promoted to TEAM, and ASSIST can be promoted to FIRE. The READY player who has been on server longest will be promoted to ASSIST in the case of a vacancy.
Should these conditions not be met, server reverts to HvH FFA DM.
Fireteam members:
READY – Point, Left Flank, 9-to-11 o’clock (PVT, Rifleman)
TEAM – Command, Center, 11-to-1 o’clock (LC or CPL, Leader/Grenadier)
FIRE – Squad Weapon, Suppression Fire, 11-to-1 o’clock (PFC, AR/SW Tech)
ASSIST – Sweep, Right Flank, 1-to-3 o’clock (PVT, Asst. AR/SW Tech)
READY2 – Sweep, Rear
READY3 – Point, Far Right Flank
READY4 – Sweep, Far Left Flank
Fire-and-maneuver Teams: Player act in pairs. One player moves while other provides cover fire. Players stay within a grenade toss of each other and can control an area about two to five times as large (maybe more with accuracy, practice, teamwork, skill, etc.).
As always, concepts are a dime a dozen.
Cheers!
/g_lurkmode 1
edit'd ofc
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Why did you return?
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YAYS, HE LIVES!
Why did you return?
Obviously Lava is over-joyed of seeing you. ;D
Anyways, I can obviously see you spent your time thinking on this idea. But this seems a bit like Medal of Honor-ish, or whatever WW2 game I'm thinking of. Seriously? Wheres the aliens? Are they used as the bots for scenarios? :P
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Why did you return?
to split the community and to grow amanieu's todo list beyond supernatural.
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i'm not sure player1 posted this stuff into the right interwebz section...
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/un-lurk
@+OPTIMUS+: LOLd as usual (sup dewd?)
note that this sub-forum seems already infested w/ teh Type Ten Threads
@Hendrich: yesh, a lame-ass HvH server until Co-op Mode, then foes are any Tremulous entity you like vs. a Human Fireteam (hence teh name) 8)
@modLC: :-*
/re-lurk
edit'd ofc
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player1: GJ at a well presented idea, some of it is already on my TODO list, such as dropping & picking up stuff.
And welcome back :)
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i like the idea of starting in a chatroom and THEN choosing a server from a list. but the whole HVH thing really threw me off. i got to reading about the LEAD and ASSIST so i just scrolled to the bottom. its too complicated. tremulous is a unique game with unique skills required and should stay that way. someone who is the world's best at halo would get their ass kicked right off the server for being a noob at tremulous. and i like it that way. it is a one of a kind game that nobody else has ever thought of. you cant get good at every single other game ever created in the entire universe and be good at tremulous. no matter what game it is, no matter what style it operates on. you cannot be good at tremulous until you have played it.
to the point, putting this kind of gameplay into tremulous would encourage more halo and COD4 players to join. making it a less unique game and less of a standout among those legendary games that have a unique and thoroughly entertaining style of gameplay.
in morons terms: what the fuck is fucking wrong with you. omfg you fuckign retard. trem is for trem people not for halo people. :D
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i like the idea of starting in a chatroom and THEN choosing a server from a list. but the whole HVH thing really threw me off. i got to reading about the LEAD and ASSIST so i just scrolled to the bottom. its too complicated. tremulous is a unique game with unique skills required and should stay that way. someone who is the world's best at halo would get their ass kicked right off the server for being a noob at tremulous. and i like it that way. it is a one of a kind game that nobody else has ever thought of. you cant get good at every single other game ever created in the entire universe and be good at tremulous. no matter what game it is, no matter what style it operates on. you cannot be good at tremulous until you have played it.
to the point, putting this kind of gameplay into tremulous would encourage more halo and COD4 players to join. making it a less unique game and less of a standout among those legendary games that have a unique and thoroughly entertaining style of gameplay.
in morons terms: what the fuck is fucking wrong with you. omfg you fuckign retard. trem is for trem people not for halo people. :D
And here i thought quake 3 veterans automatically owned the shit out of tremulous players ;)
@ player1 wb, You still write too much.
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Master is back... :)
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lurk mode: disengage
@Amanieu: It was for you that I posted it. Thanks for your continued positive attitude. Ideas are cheap; and freely given. Enjoy.
@janev: 8)
@Syntac: :)
@frazzler: This is envisioned as a special mode for those who want to play a Humans vs. various Bots Co-op game, not as a replacement for Tremulous. I envision about zero to one server(s) anywhere running it at any time, even if it does get made. It would just be there all the time, running special Co-op Mission maps (when activated), for that one time in a dozen (hundred?) when a player is in that Co-op sort of mood, but wants a Trem twist on the action. Also, more than three people have to join the server for it to run the Co-op missions, so most of the time it would be a Humans versus Humans Free-for-All Deathmatch server, for two or three players (bots inactivated) - an "I-can-kick-your-ass-Tremstyle" fun server for those who enjoy that sort of thing. Thanks for letting me know that you hate the idea, even though you didn't really read it. Fucking new guy. [tl;dr version: who the fuck r u?] 8)
@Hendrich: This is what separates it from all the rest of the WWII Co-op games: Trem weapons and Trem Aliens (albeit bots). I just see it as an alternative to the Tower Defense Mod or the Bot Mod (combining a little bit of both concepts with a little actual Fireteam tactical maneuvering). That's why each player has a unique skillset/loadout. Point, Leader (Grenadier), Squad Weapon, SW Ammo Carry Assistant (Medic)*. ;)
* Cribbed from USMC/US Army-type Fireteam organization.
Cheers!
edit'd ofc
lurk mode: re-engage
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Actually, this is totally different to Halo and CoD4, which I would describe as tactical frag fests.
This is more like a cross betwixt SWAT4 and Crysis Wars, both of which shit on the aforementioned frag fests.
I support this idea in the vain hope that someone will find the time to make it.
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sup@K from Oz :)
Thanks.
I think it's more involved than the average Co-op Mode, is more about "actual" military fireteam roles than the usual "squad-based" game, and doesn't have WWII opponents (it has Alienbots, Humanbots, Alien Structures and Slightly Modified Hostile Human Structures as enemy entities).
One guy gets to toss grenades, set waypoints, issue "commands", and focus fire (especially for the squad weapon guy). One guy gets the squad weapon, and increased ammo carry. One guy gets to haul and carry medkits and ammo, and as act support for the squad weapon guy, while trying to keep the Leader alive. And the last guy to join takes Point (and gets an extra spawn or two).
Cheers!
Note(s):
Heavy Blaster - A blaster with increased knockback and splash damage. Knocks enemies around a little, and if you hit the ground in front of little Aliens, or the wall next to a Human sentry, it does damage. New model not really required (new skin would be a sweet plus).
Focused Fire - If the Team Leader targets a specific enemy for the Squad Weapon by shooting at that entity with his own weapon ("painting" it with ordinance) and the Squad Weapon Tech aims at the same enemy entity with the Squad Weapon, an aiming bonus is awarded for Squad Weapon ammo. In other words, if I am the Leader and aim at the oncoming Tyrant, and you are SW Guy, and aim at the same Tyrant, me hitting him with one of my bullets automagically makes all of your chaingun shots less erratic and shaky, and suddenly more focused. Makes having a Team Leader worth having, and possibly listening to him worth doing (occasionally). After three forced restarts of the level/map/mission, the fireteam can nominate and elect a new Team Leader (or possibly all members are promoted one rank, except Leader, who is demoted to Point/Recruit/Scout/FNG).
Grenade Launcher - In future phase of mod project, tossable Tremulous grenades will be supplemented with rocket-propelled grenades launched from a grenade launcher attached to the Team Leader Rifle (thus making it a "new" weapon possibly requiring a "new" model, as well as a "new" projectile with a different trajectory, action and damage from the tossable Tremulous grenade). Hopefully Tremulous grenades would be retained and any fireteam member could pick up and toss grenades. Before the Team Leader Rifle with Grenade Launcher is instituted, a liberal pickup system for running over corpses should yield some grenades for other fireteam members, but only two respawns are allowed for the Team Leader, so: use sparingly.
OK, now where is techhead to critique this?
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Why would any self-respecting game want more CoD4 and Halo players, I seriously wonder...
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Strangely tangential comment, Mr. Moderator. :P
Actually, the reason that I was thinking about a Tremulous Co-op Mode was because both you and Steely Ann mentioned various co-op mods and games, which looked quite interesting. So many of them were similar that I thought players might be interested in a Co-op Mode for Tremulous, which would offer something different. I was hoping that an experienced gamer like yourself might be willing to add some useful comments (vainly, perhaps, yet hoping, nonetheless).
As to attracting players from other games, I couldn't care less, one way or the other. I prefaced this thread with the "Type Ten" comment, and you and I have had this conversation many times, in reference to whether or not Tremulous "needs" any changes. I had an idea. I wrote it down. I posted it. I thought maybe someone might enjoy reading it or discussing it. Or not.
Thanks for your constructive comments. Have a nice day.
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Oh yes, I am totally still available for random dreaming of gamemodes that will never see the light of day.
I just, very openly, wondered if CoD4 and Halo are the players you are looking for.
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I'm not looking for players from any particular game to come and play Tremulous. Also, I don't think that frazzler's rant should color this entire discussion. What say you to Kaleo's contention that this idea is more akin to games like SWAT4 or Crysis Wars? Comparing this idea to a limited segment of hated gamerdom is a somewhat prejudicial tactic (I call it the Counter-Strike Reference, as in, "If you want to play a game like that, why don't you go play DREADFUL HATED GAME NAME HERE?" or "Yeah, that's sure to attract those cheating scumbags who play CHEATING SCUMBAG GAME NAME HERE."). It's a derailment tactic we've all used before, but it really adds little to the conversation, other than sardonic condescension.
I like the Fireteam concept, and I like the idea of a Co-op Mode for Tremulous (both the Tower Defense Mod idea and the Bot Mod drew a lot of player response, although both have since gone kind of nowhere). What say you to the actual idea, and not simply to its alleged similarity to some game whose very mention is sure to draw ridicule and ire? I'd be very interested in a considered response and detailed critique from a person with your vast knowledge of gaming in general, and co-op mods in particular.
edit'd for spelling and punctuation
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Actually, I don't think CoD4 is that bad, although not my thing, while Halo was a game I enjoyed, at least in singleplayer. SWAT4 was a good game, but again not my thing, whereas I don't like Crysis, since it's just as crappy as Far Cry, anyone can see that from a mile away.
I just wandered off-track a bit, yet, enough for you, and wondered about why you named those specific games.
Now, I'll bump you back on track:
Thump
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halo and COD4 players
Medal of Honor, or whatever WW2 game I'm thinking of
And now, two questions:
1) What do you think of the idea of a Tremulous Co-op Mode in general (not this idea specifically)?
2) Do you enjoy playing games based on the fireteam concept (if you have, as of yet)?
P.S. The idea presented in the original post is more based on America's Army (which I have yet to play, and I don't believe my machine can run it - crappy gfx processor & no Windows) and this (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fireteam#United_States_Army) Wikipedia article, than it is on Halo (which I have played) or any WWII Co-op games (which I have not, as RtCW was enough of that for me; not to mention the aforementioned current crappy laptop as gaming machine). Not that I am in any rush to play AA. I'd rather see the concept translated to the World of Tremulous.
It basically boils down to a half-squad composed of: Brave/Expendable Guy (Scout/Light), Leader/Grenadier/Unexpendable Guy (a la TF 1.2), Squad Weapon Guy (Heavy/Co-Leader), and Assistant Squad Weapon Guy (Medic/Ammo Carry/Sweep). Protect the Team Leader. After all, he's got the Grenade Launcher. Dude with Chaingun gets Accuracy Bonus when he aims and fires at what the Team Leader is aiming and firing at (keybind/toggle/enable/disable required?). Aliens, of course, are Teh Dreaded Bot Foe (as well as Human Bots, for that DX flavor). Serious Sam meets AA, Trem-stylee. Contains elements of some Unreal (Annihilation?) mod I can't remember the name of, as well as Tribes Renegades, and lots of snippets from youtube links for co-op games provided by LC, SA, et al.
Cheers. Thanks for the thump-bump. Ciao.
as always, edit'd for legibility