Tremulous Forum
General => Feedback => Topic started by: The Me on October 22, 2008, 01:56:55 am
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Why do humans camp? They have no incentive to leave the base (other than winning) and there is definitely a reason not to. Humans camp and they get credits, a lot of credits. Rants sitting outside the humans base gets impatient, runs in, dies, and thus the humans earn credits. If a human leaves the base, the single rant sitting outside the base instantly mauls them and why go bother that rant if he isn't doing anything to you? The answer to camping is not to promote adv. goons, for the humans respond to adv. goons attacking not by going out and killing them, but rather camping even harder and making sure they kill the goon before it can snipe their base.
Also, humans are much more dependent upon their structures then aliens are. Healing wise aliens don't even need their structures (other than touching a booster for accelerated healing) while the humans have to stand on top of the little green circle commonly known as the medistation, to replenish their health. Attack wise, humans need to constantly replenish their ammo while aliens can stay out attacking as long as they would like. Also, aliens can upgrade any where, given the Overmind is up, while humans have to run back to base to buy their upgrades.
Both the following ideas address one of the major problems with Tremulous, camping:
New alien: Another alien, most likely s3, cost around as much as rant, has a lot of health:
In itself, it is, theoretically but not visually, a big mobile hive , the player controlling it can slowly move toward human base, and set itself down. Once the player sets themselves down, they go into swarm view. Swarm view should either be the player as the swarm of bee-like-aliens flying, by looking in the direction of intended flight and holding the "forward" key, or some variation of that. Or, swarm view could be a sort of spectator view except the player mark a human and the hive automatically attacks the player (if they are in range). This will require humans to go out of the base and attack the attacker unless they wish to give it easy kills. Also, it will add some more strategy to the game. When this new alien feels itself being attacked, the user could un-siege and start slowly trying to run away when he does this, the hive stops attacking and starts making their way back to their host. (could have a feature where the hive will automatically attack the treat to their host while the host is moving) As opposed to the adv. goon, while this alien cannot attack buildings, he will be able to attack the humans from out of their view so they must go find it instead of just wait for it to come into their base.
Repeater BP:
Have BP set and customizable as it is now, but intead of it the BP being set for the total bp, have it set the BP given off by the Reactor and have a separate setting for the BP given off by a repeater. Say the Reactor BP is set as 80, in the area covered by the reach of the RC's power, the human team could only have eight telenodes or ten turrets or 4 telenodes and five turrets etc. If a player builds a repeater, the area of power the repeater supplies will have its own BP. Say the Repeater BP is set at 20. Per repeater, the builders could only make two telenodes or two turrets or a turret and a medistation, etc. Don't immediately think this will make the humans unstoppable. Remember that repeaters can only be placed outside of other areas of power so, the amount is limited to the size of the map. Also, (if the server does not make their repeater bp ridiculous) say the repeater BP is 20, the most defending structures that could hold is two turrets, this can easily be taken out by a goon, mara, or good basi. And, if the humans create too many repeaters, they will not be able to maintain them all and the aliens will be able to easily take them out. As for showing BP, my idea is if a player with a ckit walks into an area with power, display the remaining BP for that area, if they are not in an area with power, display a "X" or lightning bolt, or some other indicator as to no power.
Reasons for Repeater BP idea: It will reduce camping by rewarding players for leaving their base instead of punishing them by hurting their main base. In theory, the more repeaters the humans create, the more powerful they become. These repeaters will allow humans to stay out longer instead of having to return to base by allowing the to run through their base routine at the "mini-base" built by the humans. If the humans are on the defensive, the mini-bases will require constant upkeep against the average alien team, thus requiring the humans, if they wish to keep the mini-bases to stay by them instead of the main base. If placed strategically, the mini bases can be used to guard the main base so that the humans do not have to worry about sneak attacks. Already done before.
New Human Weapon/Class:
How about having a "medic gun" something like all those class-based fps's out there. The classic thing to drop a small health pack or ammo. Or, straight from Team Fortress 2, a gun that a player can target a teammate with, and heal them constantly. I prefer the first one. The gun would of course have some type of regulator, like a recharge time on the hud (one for ammo one for health pack). As for incentive to be a medic, you could either have only the incentive of helping your teammates, or for the more selfish players (could also help noobs enjoy the game a little bit more by getting them some big guns) have the medic get a small token if one of the people they healed (and they are still by) kills an alien. Why I say they have to be around them is to prevent players from abusing this by hurting a teammate then healing them in base and letting the player run off while the medic earns creds. This way, they have to be out there helping. I personally like this idea better than my new alien class because it is much easier to add and would help stop camping and I personnally would love being a medic :D.
Minor sub-idea: for players carrying a ckit, display the range of power with, by tinting the affected are or floor some color. (such as in starcraft (http://img262.imageshack.us/img262/825/pylonpoweryu3.png))
Ah and I suggest making basis or adv basis invisible on the radar so they can actually sneak up on people in s2 :D
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Hmm, The Me, did I play with you the TremFusion server? ???
Anyways, I like your ideas, I especially like the Hive idea. But un-fortunately every idea will have its faults, which some players will state as this thread grows. Me, I'm too lazy to post faults unless its obvious, and you put your time into these ideas. The problem I found (Without me being too lazy :P ) Was the Starcraft/BP showing thing. Yea, that'll be nice to have, but it'll cause significant lag. 25% of the lag on most machines running Tremulous is based on the green outline shown before building anything, so having this huge circle might affect performance. Not sure if this is true or not, but I agree with your ideas.
I would love to see this put as a mod. The new alien just sounds kick-ass to have. ;)
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Hmm, The Me, did I play with you the TremFusion server? ???
Anyways, I like your ideas, I especially like the Hive idea. But un-fortunately every idea will have its faults, which some players will state as this thread grows. Me, I'm too lazy to post faults unless its obvious, and you put your time into these ideas. The problem I found (Without me being too lazy :P ) Was the Starcraft/BP showing thing. Yea, that'll be nice to have, but it'll cause significant lag. 25% of the lag on most machines running Tremulous is based on the green outline shown before building anything, so having this huge circle might affect performance. Not sure if this is true or not, but I agree with your ideas.
I would love to see this put as a mod. The new alien just sounds kick-ass to have. ;)
90% spam, 10% completely incorrect information...
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Firstly, I'm getting a little tired with comments (particularly from moderators) like yours, kevlarman. You're not telling me anything that shouldn't already be self evident from the post itself. If you're going to say the information is incorrect then go on to explain HOW it is incorrect.
*Follows his criticism with useful information*
The Me: Your first suggestion sounds scary. I can see the swarms of swarms already. Giving the aliens more outside capability when it's probably for that very reason the humans are afraid to go out seems like a step in the wrong direction.
Your BP idea on the other hand is a lot better and in fact has already been implemented on tHc servers in europe. I'll try to get back to you about it if you're interested.
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Firstly, I'm getting a little tired with comments (particularly from moderators) like yours, kevlarman. You're not telling me anything that shouldn't already be self evident from the post itself. If you're going to say the information is incorrect then go on to explain HOW it is incorrect.
*Follows his criticism with useful information*
The Me: Your first suggestion sounds scary. I can see the swarms of swarms already. Giving the aliens more outside capability when it's probably for that very reason the humans are afraid to go out seems like a step in the wrong direction.
Your BP idea on the other hand is a lot better and in fact has already been implemented on tHc servers in europe. I'll try to get back to you about it if you're interested.
he doesn't really need to explain the 1st proposal gives aliens another OP alien they don't need. isn't the tyrant and adv goon enough
the 2nd points already been made(coded) somewhere. humans dont need more bases.
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@Nux: I suggest you go to bed and sleep until the end of days.
@TheMe: The only way to make people stop camping is to change the people that camp.
In other words, stop playing with lamers, and/or start playing on a server where you can remove campers from the game.
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*Follows his criticism with useful information*
The Me: Your first suggestion sounds scary. I can see the swarms of swarms already. Giving the aliens more outside capability when it's probably for that very reason the humans are afraid to go out seems like a step in the wrong direction.
Your BP idea on the other hand is a lot better and in fact has already been implemented on tHc servers in europe. I'll try to get back to you about it if you're interested.
Well, lets say there are "swarms and swarms of bees" as long as the humans don't stand still, they should be fine also I was imagining the alien being fairly easy to kill (if a human goes to attack it). As for making them afraid to go out of their base, I would imagine this making them scared to stay in their base for if they do, they get attacked by an enemy which they cannot attack back from in their base. If they go attack the enemy, they are almost certain to be able to kill it as long as they don't get mauled by a rant.
he doesn't really need to explain the 1st proposal gives aliens another OP alien they don't need. isn't the tyrant and adv goon enough
the 2nd points already been made(coded) somewhere. humans dont need more bases.
As I said, this alien does not need to be over powered... the creator could set it to whatever damage and health to make it fair. The Tyrant is good to wipe out attackers, the goon takes out buildings and this alien will take out campers or more hopefully bring them out.
@TheMe: The only way to make people stop camping is to change the people that camp.
In other words, stop playing with lamers, and/or start playing on a server where you can remove campers from the game.
No, as I said, people camp because they can attack the aliens from within their base without having to worry about being killed. Take away that and there would be no reason to camp. Add and incentive to go out of the base and then that should eliminate camping all together. Im not saying both my ideas are the best and only ways, I just disagree with only countering camping by making the humans defenses weaker and allowing for adv goons at an earlier stage. The weaker rets require the humans to camp because if they leave, one mara can take out their defenses (I tested this myself by building the average base and attacking with a mara). So basically if they leave the base against a team with atleast one good alien, their base is doomed.
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Hmm, The Me, did I play with you the TremFusion server? ???
Anyways, I like your ideas, I especially like the Hive idea. But un-fortunately every idea will have its faults, which some players will state as this thread grows. Me, I'm too lazy to post faults unless its obvious, and you put your time into these ideas. The problem I found (Without me being too lazy :P ) Was the Starcraft/BP showing thing. Yea, that'll be nice to have, but it'll cause significant lag. 25% of the lag on most machines running Tremulous is based on the green outline shown before building anything, so having this huge circle might affect performance. Not sure if this is true or not, but I agree with your ideas.
I would love to see this put as a mod. The new alien just sounds kick-ass to have. ;)
90% spam, 10% completely incorrect information...
100% spam...
@The Me
The hive idea would make it impossible for aliens to defend their base. Instead of punishing hums for camping, why not reward for not camping?
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@The Me
The hive idea would make it impossible for aliens to defend their base. Instead of punishing hums for camping, why not reward for not camping?
read my second idea which has apparently been done, especially read the "Reasons" part of it.
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Fast Camping Solutions without needing to code:
1. Base irradiation: When humans have more than 500 credits and stay near a turret for more than 5 consecutive minutes, they get damaged.
2. Admin actions: Warn camper, then kick him. Or !slap/bother him.
3. Motivate team: Say things like "let's attack in groups", "follow me", do the "come on!" looking at a camper...
4. Donate/Share: some players say they need to camp because they are defenceless outside base with a rifle and they will feed.
5. Increase BPs: give enough build points to allow humans to create a forward base.
6. Decrease BPs: less buildings so they don't feel so much secure inside base.
Disclaimer: Yes, just 1 and 2 will work with lammers.
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@TheMe: 'Stop playing with lamers' implies that you stop playing with peope that camp; problem solved.
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(http://www.scoutshop.biz/funbadges/1888.jpg) (http://www.tellmewhereonearth.com/images/aliens%20a432.JPG)
Aliens camp, too. If a rant isn't willing to take on turrets with a healing ability and 400 hp, he can shut the hell up about me not coming out to play with him. If I am in my house, and you are living on my lawn, who is camping? I say come in and get me, oh big bad wolf.
Humans, stick together. Chase the Aliens. Enjoy their surprise when you actually leave your base. Oh, and, it's cold out there, so don't forget to put a hat on.
Cheers, campers.
Camping. Shut the fuck up about it and rush already.
"Patience, my ass. I'm gonna go out and kill (http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3102/2567970187_1644614a0e.jpg?v=0) something."
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Fast Camping Solutions without needing to code:
1. Base irradiation: When humans have more than 500 credits and stay near a turret for more than 5 consecutive minutes, they get damaged.
2. Admin actions: Warn camper, then kick him. Or !slap/bother him.
3. Motivate team: Say things like "let's attack in groups", "follow me", do the "come on!" looking at a camper...
4. Donate/Share: some players say they need to camp because they are defenceless outside base with a rifle and they will feed.
5. Increase BPs: give enough build points to allow humans to create a forward base.
6. Decrease BPs: less buildings so they don't feel so much secure inside base.
Disclaimer: Yes, just 1 and 2 will work with lammers.
1. I've tried this and found it very annoying. I'm not the kind of person who likes to stay still at all, yet even I suffered for 'camping' (by that definition) when I was forced back by the aliens. This is part of a group of solutions which attempt to eliminate camp by giving humans more of a disadvantage in already bad circumstances. That's just not fun.
2. It 'works' but is ideally not required.
3. More advice than motivatio. Players don't have to- and tend not to -follow it.
4. Yes, but the other lazy/scared people tend to use the free points to fire a constant stream of spam balls at the exit they're so afraid of using.
5. Best idea listed but doesn't this just mean camping in the extended base?
6. No Base -> No Camping (+No Humans) Yes, that's hyperbole but illustrates the point. This fits into the same group of solutions as 1.
EDIT:
@Nux: I suggest you go to bed and sleep until the end of days.
Will you wake me up before you overthrow heaven and cast judgement on all of us? :)
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Indeed Nux, none of them are really THE solution.
Our admin team discussed on how to avoid camping, we tried all those 6 items plus a lot more and we declared it was a human tremulousian natural fenomenon. Unevitable.
We now have binds that !warn, !slap or even !kick the player in the cursor aim, this way is easier to bother jetcampers and campers without having to go to spectators or wasting time typing the name and reason.
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I find frequent use of !ban 52w works just fine.
Sure you lose a few players but hell... you wouldn't want to play with them anyway.
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@TheMe: 'Stop playing with lamers' implies that you stop playing with peope that camp; problem solved.
I'm not complaining about camping. I am suggesting ways to fix it. You can't escape lamers, because as it is, when the base under lockdown by aliens and all the exits have 3 rants, humans have either camp, or feed and give the rants outside the base more evos so they can continue guarding the exits even if they die.
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Remember, camping doesn't just mean staying in your base. It's staying in the same place for an extended period of time. This also applies to aliens who guard every single entrance to the human base and never actually, you know, try to attack it.
How do you fix the camping problem? Simple. Kick 'em.
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aliens who guard every single entrance to the human base and never actually, you know, try to attack it.
I'm curious, :P
In the spanish community we call it "gatecamping". How do you guys define that?
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Like he said, just camping...
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They have no incentive to leave the base (other than winning)
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Why do humans camp? They have no incentive to leave the base (other than winning) and there is definitely a reason not to. Humans camp and they get credits, a lot of credits. Rants sitting outside the humans base gets impatient, runs in, dies, and thus the humans earn credits. If a human leaves the base, the single rant sitting outside the base instantly mauls them and why go bother that rant if he isn't doing anything to you? The answer to camping is not to promote adv. goons, for the humans respond to adv. goons attacking not by going out and killing them, but rather camping even harder and making sure they kill the goon before it can snipe their base.
Also, humans are much more dependent upon their structures then aliens are. Healing wise aliens don't even need their structures (other than touching a booster for accelerated healing) while the humans have to stand on top of the little green circle commonly known as the medistation, to replenish their health. Attack wise, humans need to constantly replenish their ammo while aliens can stay out attacking as long as they would like. Also, aliens can upgrade any where, given the Overmind is up, while humans have to run back to base to buy their upgrades.
I *perfectly* agree on all this. But the rest: Forget it.
I have some other suggestions:
- 1 Reduce strength of dretch head-bites to 34, this would mean that a dretch has to hit me 3 times, not just 2, while I have to hit a fast moving small target 5x with my rifle to get it down. This prevents me from running back to my base too soon.
- 2 Make armoury less vulnerable or give reactor armory capability. Otherwise we have to care like hell and can't risk to let that precious piece of metal get down, so we don't dare to run too far away from it. Either make arm as strong as reactor, or make reactor capable of armoury function. I would prefer the latter.
- 3 Give humans more ammunition, I usually don't dare to use up all my ammo, because otherwise I may have nothing to defend myself while running home. Other solution: Feed. Then I don't need ammo for my way back.
- 4 Reverse charging process of Luci. Luci charges automatically and remains in that state unless triggered. If triggered before full reload, bursts are weaker. If secondary button is pressed, just fire a small burst that discharges Luci just a little.
- 5 enable humans to refill each others ammo. Go to a teammate, aim at him and push "use structure" button to give him a certain amount of your own ammo (one clip of rounds or 25pt energy). Bullet-based weapons and energy based weapons wielder may help each other, flamethrowers are the exception, they can only recharge other flamethrowers.
- 6 Weaken power of advgoon-barbs, weaken power of tyrant slashes ONE RANT in our base can be the end. ONE GOON+ to snipe the armoury + one tyrant can be the end. Weakon their weapons, dammit! Or else half a dozen have to defend the base just to get rid of two. Once a goon+ shows up and starts to snipe, there is no way of going out, because you mustn't let that bug get down your base.
- 7 Slow down regeneration rate of goons and tyrants to "pretty slow". If they want to regenerate quickly, they must be near the overmind or near a booster. This should buy humans enough time to leave their/make aliens depend more on their own base.
This means to improve humans/weaken aliens, so some improvements to aliens should be done as well:
- a Increase grab distance of basilisk
- b Make goon+ and tyrant able to "squish" dretches and basilisks and grangers If you get in the way of a tyrant or a goon+ plus you are a small alien: Bad luck. You will be "stepped on" or squished like between two moving blocks. No penalties will be given to big aliens squishing small ones: The small ones are to blame for blocking.
- c Make wallwalking aliens able to bounce off the floor when falling down. If you are a wallwalking, "small" alien, and you fall down, push the crouch-button to bounce off the floor like a ball. So, if you drop from a bigger altitude, you will be reflected up to heigher then you could jump.
- d Allow marauders to grab the ceiling or wall when touching it. If you are mara, you can hit the crouch-button during jump, and then you can grab the ceiling/wall you touch and stick on it like a wallwalking small alien, but you cannot move for you are too heavy, if you'd set one foot loose, you'd fall down, so you can't move on the ceiling or walls. Maybe this could be modified in that way, that advanced marauders can only grab walls, not the ceiling, because they are too heavy to grap themselves to ceilings.
Summary:
Make humans less dependent on their base, make aliens' weapons weaker, but make aliens themselves more agile
Maybe this would solve the "marshmellow problem", because I camp myself much more often when human then when I play aliens.
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1 Reduce strength of dretch head-bites to 34
They would have to hit your head 4-5 times, because you can use medikit and heal between headbites, unless you stand still. And 5 shots on rifle are faster then 2 hits on dretch. IIRC headbite damage was reduced from 2x to 1.5x (dretch =72)
2 Make armoury less vulnerable or give reactor armory capability.
Ever thought of building armory behind the reactor? Oh and check & repair your base from time to time, not when reactor/half the base is already smoking.
3 Give humans more ammunition
Learn to use the ammo you have without wasting. I can't remember the last time I had trouble with that.
4 Reverse charging process of Luci
Let luciers have full load ready at all times (ie remove the main disadvantage of it)? I'd prefer if it wasn't made into a ultimate weapon, it's already very good at destroying the enemy base. And how would you fire weaker shots to save ammo when you don't need a full shot?
5 enable humans to refill each others ammo.
Pulse with battpack has a total of 375 ammo, if he can give that to a luci+battpack, it will get a total of 510 ammo... If this was ever made, it would need to change the amount depending on the weapon or only allow refilling of same weapons. Also I doubt that any trem bullet-based weapon can use another ones ammo.
6 Weaken power of advgoon-barbs, weaken power of tyrant slashes
They are quite well balanced IMO, humans strength comes from teamwork... and using the right weapons/upgrades.
7 Slow down regeneration rate of goons and tyrants to "pretty slow".
Regen rates are changed in mgdev.
a Increase grab distance of basilisk I rarely use basi, so idk.
b Make goon+ and tyrant able to "squish" dretches and basilisks and grangers
Sure, this will help a lot of newbs to leave the game. In mgdev basilisks increase heal rate, but if they constantly get squished by touching a big alien, none of them will help the bigger aliens. A noob goon/rant can be a huge pain for dretches by blocking in base, and easily cause them to lose.
c Make wallwalking aliens able to bounce off the floor when falling down.
I see no need for this.
d Allow marauders to grab the ceiling or wall when touching it.
I wouldn't mind being *able* to grab walls for 1-2 sec to get to some higher places.
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How to stop camping problems? Camp back. Hell yea. :police:
Just get on a better server to play on. If people are camping, either rush their ass with your buddies, kick them or leave the server because there isn't much to do about it. Find ways to stop their camping spree, go with your teammates to weaken one defense structure at a time, etc. The developers are making solutions to the camping problem whereas here we're just making up ideas that un-balance gameplay.
100% spam...
150% spam, phail. =D
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Teleport any camper into the opposite teams base, and take away 99% of their health.
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Camping. Shut the fuck up about it and rush already.
oh crap is zybork back on his favorite soapbox again?
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Tremulous IS unbalanced: Aliens are in favour in short range fights, but most of the fights happen in a short range, only rarely can humans act out their long range capabilities, the projectiles are either slow (pulse, luci), inaccurate or short ranged (chaingun, shotgun, flamer, painsaw), weak (rifle, lasergun) or have a painfully slow rate of fire (mass driver).
However, the biggest problem we have in a game that is "camped down" is the lack of tactical knowledge in special or, in general, simple stupidity. A well organized human team is always superior to any alien team, but honestly: How many times did you ever play in a well organized human team? You have one or two leets, who knock down the aliens literally alone, some newbies who don't know anything (but that's not a problem, we all were newbs once) and then a lot of people running around having no clue what to do. (That's why I wanted to introduce the TM-guild http://www.antivegan.at/tm ,but I am not good at marketing.)
When alien, yo now do not really need a strategy, you can just press on with the attack, and you will win. For humans, this is different. If they are unorganized, they're dead. And they're dead most of the time. That's my experience so far, and I am much more dangerous when playing alien then I am when playing human, altough the speed of my reflexes and tactical knowledge remains the same. But playing alien, I am nearly always a lone fighter - and succeed.
Here is an excerpt of my bindings btw:
bind F10 "say friendly fire isn't!"
bind g "sell weapons; buy rifle; sell upgrades; buy helmet; buy gren; say_team I try to run and nade their base now."
bind l "say_team Don't go alone, team up!"
bind m "say_team Form teams of 3 to 4 and attack!"
Lack of tactical knowledge now is something that won't change, so programmers should do something about it - to restore balance.
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try playing on mgdev some more, many people have whined about and/or praised (yes there have been people who did both) the fact that aliens can no longer succeed without teamwork.
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Tremulous IS unbalanced
And the ideas in this thread is helping it? :P
The only problem I had with the mgdev server was their utterly gay alien-sexual font. I didn't see any reason to change the old one, now its harder to read text. :-\
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try playing on mgdev some more
And how? "VM_Create on UI failed" -> quit
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try playing on mgdev some more
And how? "VM_Create on UI failed" -> quit
enable downloads.
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try playing on mgdev some more
And how? "VM_Create on UI failed" -> quit
enable downloads.
I have. It downloads somewhat texture pk3, then quit trem and in blue console is that error message. Using tjw client.
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The major problem is at Stage 3, humans can gear up and wait out the aliens. Aliens beat against the human base and humans rack in the credits. Then humans can counter attack the alien base once aliens have drained a lot of their evos.
Sudden Death helps to a point and only if aliens all rush at once.
My suggestion is that some (not all) humans weapons should cost some credits to reload. That way, you have to get kills to fuel camping or whatever. Eventually people have to leave the base to do something instead of prolonging the game.
Also, the rant and the luci could be removed. I think the game is a whole lot more fun pre Stage 3 for either team. Once the game hits Stage 3, it grinds to a halt.
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Also, the rant and the luci could be removed. I think the game is a whole lot more fun pre Stage 3 for either team. Once the game hits Stage 3, it grinds to a halt.
Bad idea right there. The rant is the big guy who could defend the base easily with it's large amount of health and powerful swipes. Goons won't put up much of a fight with 2/3 chainers grinding it, maybe it could take down a few chainers if its a good goon, but still, its not the most versatile alien to choose for raw defense and offense. And the Lucifer is used to destroy stubborn structures that aliens keep defending, so taking away that Lucifer can easily make game stand-stills a lot more frequent :D.
But it would be interesting to see a mod like that in a game to prove otherwise. :/
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My suggestion is that some (not all) humans weapons should cost some credits to reload. That way, you have to get kills to fuel camping or whatever. Eventually people have to leave the base to do something instead of prolonging the game.
I like that idea. Make it cheap-ish, so it won't hinder real play, but will stop spam. (Of course, a good player would still be able to spam, which is how it should be).
Maybe 100c for full ammo, scaled by how much you had left (including clips that were half wasted by reloads). Also adds some new interestingness on ammo-management.
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If that were to be implemented, I think it would go hand-in-hand with a mod that makes it so a reload does not waste the remainder of your old clip.
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Meh thought I'd bump this up with another quick idea inspired by zybork
How about having a "medic gun" something like all those class-based fps's out there. The classic thing to drop a small health pack or ammo. Or, straight from Team Fortress 2, a gun that a player can target a teammate with, and heal them constantly. I prefer the first one. The gun would of course have some type of regulator, like a recharge time on the hud (one for ammo one for health pack). As for incentive to be a medic, you could either have only the incentive of helping your teammates, or for the more selfish players (could also help noobs enjoy the game a little bit more by getting them some big guns) have the medic get a small token if one of the people they healed (and they are still by) kills an alien. Why I say they have to be around them is to prevent players from abusing this by hurting a teammate then healing them in base and letting the player run off while the medic earns creds. This way, they have to be out there helping. I personally like this idea better than my new alien class because it is much easier to add and would help stop camping and I personnally would love being a medic :D.
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A medic gun would just give you situations where the noobs will camp with psaw and medic backup. An extra gun, even if it's a rifle or something weak, is still more effective.
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A medic gun would just give you situations where the noobs will camp with psaw and medic backup. An extra gun, even if it's a rifle or something weak, is still more effective.
That would be pointless (except for the medic) because the psaw could heal himself about 10 feet away on the medipad. It would take the medic longer to heal him then if he went to the pad.
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How about having a "medic gun" something like all those class-based fps's out there.
The only game with a medic "gun" is TF2, which is major fail.
I think somthing more along the lines of a medi "kit" like in BF, ET, or even UrT.
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How about having a "medic gun" something like all those class-based fps's out there. The classic thing to drop a small health pack or ammo
The only game with a medic "gun" is TF2, which is major fail.
I think somthing more along the lines of a medi "kit" like in BF, ET, or even UrT.
You left that part out. Many games have medics which will drop ammo and/or health packs. Team Fortress 2 is the only game I can think of which has a constant healing gun and I mention it later in my post "Or, straight from Team Fortress 2, a gun that a player can target a teammate with, and heal them constantly."
Please, before you post, read a post, understand it, consider what its proposing, then post. Don't read the first line and post a response thinking you understand what is being said.
Also, I disagree with TF2 being a major fail, I know many people who are practically addicted to that game and some of them left Tremulous for it. I personally think it is an amazingly fun game. Also, it has has a very large fan base thus showing I'm not the only one who thinks its fun and you may very well be in the minority by disliking it. From my experiences, its medic gun definitely enhances gameplay by allowing players to be healed without running all the way back to their base/spawn room.
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The Medigun suits Tf2 gameplay, however this is not Tf2.
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Dropping and picking up items does not seem consistent with the rest of Trem gameplay, there's no such thing anywhere now.
@Kaine: I actually like the fact you can waste your ammo by reloading. It's very realistic. This is an actual problem and unexperienced soldiers are known to eject their clips half-empty in the heat of the battle.
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The Medigun suits Tf2 gameplay, however this is not Tf2.
God damnit... Yes, in my post I suggested that the medic gun, if it was installed, maybe it could be made like the one in TF2. What my main idea for this new gun was, is a gun which drops little health packs. Of course this is not TF2, this is a proposal for a Tremulous mod. TF2's gameplay does not call for a medic gun at all... How does it suit Team Fortress gameplay and not Tremulous' (1) or is there somewhere in the Tremulous constitution which prohibits discussion of adding a medic gun? Why not try adding it, for it may just be a major step to keeping humans roaming around like the aliens do.
Dropping and picking up items does not seem consistent with the rest of Trem gameplay, there's no such thing anywhere now.
No shit... No one has added it yet, but it is possible.
(1): keep in mind there are numerous other games which use the idea of dropping health packs (and sometimes ammo packs) for other players, Starwars: Battlefront to name one (ETQW and Battlefield to name two other big games)
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If you want it added, get your own server and do it yourself. Noone here will do it for you.
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If you want it added, get your own server and do it yourself. Noone here will do it for you.
Please please please shut the fuck up. You cannot speak for the whole website and say that no one will do it because quite frankly not every one is as much of an asshole as you. I am throwing these ideas out there because sometimes there are people who know how to code who will take ideas from the website because they can't think of any good mod on their own. Maybe you aren't one of those people but, I wasn't asking you to personally do it, I wasn't asking anyone to do it. Just, sometimes when you have what you think is a good idea, it is better to share than keep it to yourself, in hopes that some person out there who is able to code it will see the same potential in it that you do.
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You cannot speak for the whole website
Actually, I think I can speak for the whole website when I can say that daenyth should STFU and GTFO.
If you want it added, get your own server and do it yourself. Noone here will do it for you.
"Noone" is not a word.
On topic: I like your idea of a the repeater/reactor displaying the areas to which they will provide power, and I also think that it's the most easily-done of all your ideas. Good thinking. :)
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you know the new alien sounds awesome but i think it make humans camp even more.it'll kill them in their base before they get to attack it. besides the hive creature will make the aliens unbeatable.and im not convinced it will stop humans from ::)camping ::)if you are still gona make it then you need a name i suggest that if it does the same thing as a hive they call it a hiver. oh ya you will need it in s1.because humans camp always.but i think it will make aliens invincibe so i suggest that u make like a huge thing with lots of hp like fire acid from a acidtube.it will stop them from camping if you bombard they with acid..but i still like the idea about the hive on legs.also you could give humans a break by making arms and medis free.(they could make froward bases with a reapeater)but you would also have to make the booster for the aliens free to.so the humans would have the arm and medi free aliens would have the hovel and booster
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you know the new alien sounds awesome but i think it make humans camp even more.it'll kill them in their base before they get to attack it. besides the hive creature will make the aliens unbeatable.and im not convinced it will stop humans from ::)camping ::)if you are still gona make it then you need a name i suggest that if it does the same thing as a hive they call it a hiver. oh ya you will need it in s1.because humans camp always.but i think it will make aliens invincibe so i suggest that u make like a huge thing with lots of hp like fire acid from a acidtube.it will stop them from camping if you bombard they with acid..but i still like the idea about the hive on legs.also you could give humans a break by making arms and medis free.(they could make froward bases with a reapeater)but you would also have to make the booster for the aliens free to.so the humans would have the arm and medi free aliens would have the hovel and booster
Well, like a hive it will have great difficulty attacking a moving human. Also, it will have an even harder time defending itself seeing that it has not melee attack. What I was picturing is it coming, getting some kills then irritating the humans enough to go out, find it, and kill it. But there still would be the problem of rants. One good rant can guard an exit of the human base, so giving them a weapon which could sit back, guarded by rants and drain the humans of the few credits they are getting while camping would be very cheap. Because when the humans went to go kill it, they would just feed the rants. So, that is why I prefer the second or third idea.
I would like to see the battles of trem take place in the middle of the map like a game of tug-of-war struggling to gain ground on each other while looking for a weakness in the defense so they can get to the main structures. I think both the second and third idea would help achieve that because as I have said before, the humans need to heal and get armor constantly and running back to base and allowing aliens to gain ground always ends up with the humans fighting to take a step out of their base. Thus, having a method of (full) healing in the battle field should prevent or at least begin to stop camping.
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@The Me: While your enthusiasm is appreciated, you are arguing vehemenently for an (unoriginal) idea that barely worked in the game it was implemented in (TF2). Mentioning it once is fine, maybe twice... but this is ridiculous. You've made 6 posts now, supporting the same fail-idea (One that several members of the community have already tried to tell you is a poor one that you are welcome to implement on your own server).
Please, get some new material, or get out of this thread so that other people with better ideas can have a chance to share their thoughts with us.
(One would think that being the "Thread Creator" you, of all people, would have a desire to have new/beneficial ideas be heard, rather than being drowned out in a constant stream of "ZOMG MEDGUN GAIZ!!!1!")
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--- snip ---
I would like to see the battles of trem take place in the middle of the map like a game of tug-of-war struggling to gain ground on each other while looking for a weakness in the defense so they can get to the main structures. I think both the second and third idea would help achieve that because as I have said before, the humans need to heal and get armor constantly and running back to base and allowing aliens to gain ground always ends up with the humans fighting to take a step out of their base. Thus, having a method of (full) healing in the battle field should prevent or at least begin to stop camping.
That's what the Domination Mod is for...
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Sometimes I wonder what would happen if some of these class changes, new classes, new weapons, structures and functions were implemented into game. I believe that if this game had more options that camping would lessen some and the gameplay would change. Moreover, I like the alien class thing. I just imagine a giant cardboard box thing the size refrigeratores come in and slowly moving. As for the medkit thing, I think there could be an additional bonus in the armoury that would be like 100c or something that would be a 3medkits of 100HP in one package or something. Something like in Pokemon. LOL. Like you could buy something for cheap like an antidote for like 25c to stop poison but heal nothing, or a larger health pack that would include 5 medkits of 100HP in one package for 175c. But i like both ideas :)
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@The Me: While your enthusiasm is appreciated, you are arguing vehemenently for an (unoriginal) idea that barely worked in the game it was implemented in (TF2). Mentioning it once is fine, maybe twice... but this is ridiculous. You've made 6 posts now, supporting the same fail-idea (One that several members of the community have already tried to tell you is a poor one that you are welcome to implement on your own server).
Please, get some new material, or get out of this thread so that other people with better ideas can have a chance to share their thoughts with us.
(One would think that being the "Thread Creator" you, of all people, would have a desire to have new/beneficial ideas be heard, rather than being drowned out in a constant stream of "ZOMG MEDGUN GAIZ!!!1!")
How kind, first, I am not holding anyone back from posting new ideas, for god sake I have been waiting for some one else to share an idea since the beginning of the thread. Why I have stated the same thing is to clarify and emphasize important details of an idea, some people provide their criticism on one of my ideas and I retype certain parts that they seem to have missed when they read it. The reason I seem to "argue vehemenently" for the "Medic Gun" is because it has been the one most commented on.
At least I am posting ideas instead of only making one post flaming my attempts to get some ideas to arise. You really think you are doing any good by posting that? So be it if you don't like my ideas, think of your own if you think they will be better, I have pointed out the flaws in each of mine and do not think they are the best or only ideas out there.
Side note: just like every other time I am going to summarize something because you seem to have skipped over it in you rush to flame me.
I was more speaking of a medic gun or some similar ability which allows a player to drop health boosts for his teammates (Quite a few games have this). But I mentioned the possibility of a gun similar to TF2's.
There are no completely original ideas. They all have been done before in some way shape or form. There is only modified designs for instance the hive, they took a beehive and modified it for use in a game. For my new class suggestion I took the hive and combined it with a siege weapon.
Now I will ask you what you asked of me:
"Please, get some new material, or get out of this thread so that other people with better any ideas can have a chance to share their thoughts with us."
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Kaine raises some valid points, The Me.
Anyway, I think that a system best suited to Tremulous would be one similar, but not the same as, the healing system in Urban Terror. As far as game mechanics go, Frozen Sands have done a pretty good job.
Something like this for Tremulous could be better suited if it was more like a medic "melee weapon", not unlike the Strogg healer in ET:QW.
I mean this:
Wounded Player is approached by Medic Player.
Medic Player equips his First Aid tool.
Medic Player holds down attack to heal Wounded Player.
Both players may move while healing, but healing will be slower, and they must remain in close coherency.
Well, that was basically a cross between UrT's medkit and ET:QW's Strogg medkit.
If someone comes up with a truly original idea for a medic, they will receive a giant e-cookie from me.
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Wanna get rid of camping? Code some leet turrets that fire at humans if they remain in their vacinity or stand on them for a certain period of time. Thats how you get rid of camping.
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It's been done.
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It's been done.
And it backfires too, depending if you say the result is positive to gameplay or not. Everyone is S3, all aliens are tyrants and your in your base unable to fight against the tyrants without being killed. You can argue that its the humans fault for feeding the aliens to S3 and not being cooperative or skillful enough to team up against the tyrants and at least get one kill, but its still a pain in the ass to get turrets and tyrants fighting against you if you can either feed or get radiated/shot at. But once again, it depends on how long it takes for a human to camp, and its unlikely a human will last long enough to survive hungry tyrants.
And now back to the ever-lasting medgun idea. It seems fair to implent, and Kaleo's version of the Medgun seems balanced. You can move and heal if you want to, but it won't heal much or turn tables if a player decides to think that a Med-gunner + B-suit Chaingunner = Win because an alien can still kill the chainer. If they want to heal, they'll have to stay in one place where they run the risk of being defenseless when jumped or found.
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If someone comes up with a truly original idea for a medic, they will receive a giant e-cookie from me.
The Medic has a limited number of Healthboost Hypodermics, which he can administer to other players. When he wants to expend one to heal a particular player, he arms it by pushing the Use Item key, and before he actually gets charged for it, he has five seconds to aim at and lock on a teammate (like he cracked a vial, and the fluids are mixing). If he locks onto a teammate within the five seconds, that teammate gets the potential of a certain healthboost, but it doesn't kick in immediately. The Medic hits the Use Item key again to actually administer the shot. Then after a brief pause, the wounded player begins to regenerate health. A delayed-action needle-administered medkit with a slow healing rate, that a Medic can carry and shoot up other players with. Carry limit 3 to 5-ish? Health boost equal to half a medkit, and takes longer to take full effect. Just like Adv. Goon barbs, you only get a couple, and then you would need to either visit a Medi, or possibly buy some at the Armoury (would depend on balance; pick one). For icon, etc., appropriate from Q3a, if possible.
Oh, yeah, like every drug, there's a slightly annoying side effect. For every shot you take within one spawning, you lose either speed or stamina, or possibly both. So you can get that health jolt, but you can't run as fast or jump as high. So Lucisuit and Medic means that after two healings, Lucisuit can't lift his feet, and runs about as fast as molasses.
Can has cookie nao?
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Kaleo's version of the Medgun seems balanced.
Except that it wasn't a gun.
Also, here's your e-cookie (http://www.sallys-place.com/food/columns/zonis/Best_Cookie-20.jpg), player1.
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the easy way to not stop camping but remedy it is to build forward base(s). consisting of booster, egg, hive and tube.
When done, the game ends in a matter of minutes.
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the easy way to not stop camping but remedy it is to build forward base(s). consisting of booster, egg, hive and tube.
Considering aliens don't really camp anyway, and humans just don't build forward bases, your idea is flawed.
Camping has been a part of Tremulous since the dawn of time. To be Human is to Camp.
(http://assets.roosterteethstore.com/images/rt0065_large2.jpg)
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the easy way to not stop camping but remedy it is to build forward base(s). consisting of booster, egg, hive and tube.
Considering aliens don't really camp anyway, and humans just don't build forward bases, your idea is flawed.
Camping has been a part of Tremulous since the dawn of time. To be Human is to Camp.
aliens do really camp anyway, often much more than humans. 2 tyrants on each entrance to the human base bitching about humans not coming out to feed them^W^W^W^W^W^Wcamping is a common occurence.
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... and, to complete the scenario, if the Humans are in their house, and the Aliens are on their lawn, then it is indeed the Aliens who are camping, while the Humans are just kickin' it (wussy-style) on the couch.
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... and, to complete the scenario, if the Humans are in their house, and the Aliens are on their lawn, then it is indeed the Aliens who are camping, while the Humans are just kickin' it (wussy-style) on the couch.
Actually, player1 is absolutely right (as usual).
It is not the humans camping, as it is their base and they own it, and so therefore, sitting in it like leprous ducks would merely living in ones home.
The aliens, on the other hand, are the ones camping since it is they who have erected tents outside the human base and proceed to toast human smores over a cozy campfire.
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Kaleo, if it was to be a gun that directly supplies health to a player, I agree, it would definitely have to have some "disadvantage" while trying to heal a moving player. Perhaps remove the ability to heal a moving player altogether, making the medic more like a medipad and less like an infinite medikit.
I do like player1 idea better. Perhaps I can suggest a modification? Instead of a limited amount of aid, how about a time limitation (on top of the application time he suggested), For instance, the player can have a max amount of "aid packets" at a time, say 3, when there player has used one or more, it takes a certain amount of time to regenerate it, say 15 seconds. This would prevent aid spam. For those who are confused, I will try to describe it being in use in-game. Imagine the medic healing a guy, this uses one aid packet leaving him with only two, after use, it begins to recharge, 15 seconds later (unless he heals another player, which would pause the recharge time) he will gain back one of his aid packets. Note: only one aid packets would recharge at a time.
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I would suggest download UrT and seeing how the medkit works in that. Thats sort of what I was getting at.
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Something like this for Tremulous could be better suited if it was more like a medic "melee weapon", not unlike the Strogg healer in ET:QW.
I mean this:
Wounded Player is approached by Medic Player.
Medic Player equips his First Aid tool.
Medic Player holds down attack to heal Wounded Player.
Both players may move while healing, but healing will be slower, and they must remain in close coherency.
Well, that was basically a cross between UrT's medkit and ET:QW's Strogg medkit.
I am on a mac and, as far as I know there is no UrT for mac (I could boot up on windows and download it but I don't think its worth downloading it just to see the medkit) So, sorry if I do not completely understand what you are saying, but what I can get out of your post (quote above) You are describing a TF2-like "First Aid tool" gun with less range and slower healing while moving.
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Personally, I think the BP system should be rewritten so that you get a certain amount of BP per creep/power area. For example, humans get 102 BP from the reactor for main base. Then, each repeater would provide 60-70 BP for use around it. Aliens would get something similar, although all eggs would use BP from the overmind. Any building within more than one creep/power area would count as being in both, so as to prevent super-powered alien bases from BP stackage. To go along with this, the repeater would become an S1 buildable. This would allow both teams to make reasonable forward bases without substantial drains on their main base. Such bases would likely require near continuous support from players in order to maintain, so you could not just take over ever larger portions of the map. Just as a note, the actual BP amounts may need adjustment in order to achieve a reasonable balance.
The other main idea I have had would be to make an advanced dretch. It would be very similar to the normal dretch, although it gets a pounce ability. Immediately upon death, it would explode for 100-200 damage.
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Personally, I think the BP system should be rewritten so that you get a certain amount of BP per creep/power area. For example, humans get 102 BP from the reactor for main base. Then, each repeater would provide 60-70 BP for use around it. Aliens would get something similar, although all eggs would use BP from the overmind. Any building within more than one creep/power area would count as being in both, so as to prevent super-powered alien bases from BP stackage. To go along with this, the repeater would become an S1 buildable. This would allow both teams to make reasonable forward bases without substantial drains on their main base. Such bases would likely require near continuous support from players in order to maintain, so you could not just take over ever larger portions of the map. Just as a note, the actual BP amounts may need adjustment in order to achieve a reasonable balance.
You should try a game PornServ, this is basically how it works on that server.
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Personally, I think the BP system should be rewritten so that you get a certain amount of BP per creep/power area. For example, humans get 102 BP from the reactor for main base. Then, each repeater would provide 60-70 BP for use around it. Aliens would get something similar, although all eggs would use BP from the overmind. Any building within more than one creep/power area would count as being in both, so as to prevent super-powered alien bases from BP stackage. To go along with this, the repeater would become an S1 buildable. This would allow both teams to make reasonable forward bases without substantial drains on their main base. Such bases would likely require near continuous support from players in order to maintain, so you could not just take over ever larger portions of the map. Just as a note, the actual BP amounts may need adjustment in order to achieve a reasonable balance.
:P I had that exact idea too (refer to the giant scratched out part of the main post). Apparently, it has been done before.
Your BP idea on the other hand is a lot better and in fact has already been implemented on tHc servers in europe. I'll try to get back to you about it if you're interested.
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I am on a mac and, as far as I know there is no UrT for mac
http://www.urbanterror.net/page.php?6
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I am on a mac and, as far as I know there is no UrT for mac
http://www.urbanterror.net/page.php?6
Thanks, last time I went there was a year ago when TRaK told me about it. At that time i couldn't find a mac version. (wouldn't it be easier to just explain how the medkit works that way everyone reading it wont have to download UrT to understand?)
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Except it's kinda hard to explain the bugs that they pass off as game mechanics.
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Although the discussion has kind of veered off on a tangent; it seems to me that the simplest possible implementation of a "heal gun" is making ckit wielders able to heal humans as well as structures. Just point it at a teammate and use the repair button.
Finer implementation details to be discussed; such as whether the target should be required to stand still for this to work or just merely within close distance to the healer. Whether multiple ckits healing at the same time should compound their effects. Whether ckit users will be able to see humans' health like they do with structures. How much healing per time unit they can do. Whether using the ckit in close proximity to 2+ players heals all of them. Etc.
I have to admit that combining what used to be a suicide run (psaw+helmet+larmor) with a healer and 1-2 long range weapon wielders could be very intriguing and may very well add a whole new dynamic to human gameplay. It basically allows them to go out and hit hard as soon as S2. If you're looking for things to encourage teamplay and prevent camping and base/turret addiction, this may be the answer: formations where humans know they need to rely on each other for success.
In turn, it may also force aliens to work more as a team, which is something they don't really tend to do outside of S3 rushes or dretchstorms. I've once had the opportunity to see a rant working together with a couple of dretches. It was a frighteningly efficient killing machine. Sadly, you don't often see something like that (on public servers anyway).
FWIW, such battle formations are well known in RPG games, where players with different abilities work together for greater impact. Usually, in a RPG you'd combine a "warrior" type (melee combat and great endurance) with a healing mage and with long range attacks (magical or arrows). In fact, such formations are even described in Heroic Fantasy literature (Clayton Emery's "Outcasts" comes to mind). The explanation for their popularity is simple: it's a mobile triangle formation which possesses both long and short range damage capability and has the ability to heal as it goes.
A quote from Outcasts:
The formation centered around the axeman. A strong fighter with an axe was a terrible thing in battle, for he could knock down enemies like wheat. An axeman could smash through any defense, go where he wanted, and stop anything: it was sergeants with axes that surrounded a king on the field. Yet an axeman needed swordsmen to watch and protect him from a sudden thrust, for he needed both hands on his weapon and he carried no shield. His swordsmen were safe as long as they stayed close (but not too close). With a magician behind them to weave spells and confuse the enemy, the formation was almost invincible.
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Urcscumug, Thanks for the input, I like the idea of giving the ability to heal to the ckit :D the amount of time between +health could be set to balance it out and it would essentially be just like healing a turret. Also, requiring the healer to stay close to the player would give them a challenge and allow for a skill level of medics. I actually like this idea the best so far. Its simple, easy to apply, and it works. Good job! :D
o btw games like that RPG you were describing are also referred to as class-based games
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From all the posts, I have to cite some of the ones were more interesting for me:
The Me (http://tremulous.net/forum/index.php?topic=9445.msg144651#msg144651)
Add and incentive to go out of the base and then that should eliminate camping all together.
I will comment about this at the end...
The weaker rets require the humans to camp because if they leave, one mara can take out their defenses
I totally agree that rets need to be improved in 1.2 and not slowed down... Also the force fields in TremX are a very good idea (intsead of using arms to block tyrants)
zybork (http://tremulous.net/forum/index.php?topic=9445.msg147590#msg147590)
Tremulous IS unbalanced...
One of the reasons of that is that people new in Tremulous will tend to join human team... why? because of the same reason I did it... We know other games (aka Battlefield, UnrealTournament, Halo, etc...) and we know how to shoot and run... but for aliens is different... it is not easy to just start with them without getting kicked because of feeding. So in my personal opinion, aliens tend to have more experienced players in average... so, humans tend to have more newbs in their teams and thus camp more... (experienced players may be afraid to leave their base in hands of noobs, and noobs are afraid to become alien's food and being kicked out of the game).
temple (http://tremulous.net/forum/index.php?topic=9445.msg147772#msg147772)
My suggestion is that some (not all) humans weapons should cost some credits to reload. That way, you have to get kills to fuel camping or whatever. Eventually people have to leave the base to do something instead of prolonging the game.
Excellent idea, I think, putting it together with "Kage Mane" ideas: (http://tremulous.net/forum/index.php?topic=9445.msg152167#msg152167)
a 3medkits of 100HP in one package ...
I think humans should be able to carry (and buy) more ammo and heal packages... (maybe slowing them down, as in other games).
Also, the rant and the luci could be removed. I think the game is a whole lot more fun pre Stage 3 for either team. Once the game hits Stage 3, it grinds to a halt.
I agree with this too... that creates a grater unbalance between teams... Maybe it would be good only to increase defense (HP) and not attack in S3.
Finally my personal opinion: (sorry taking this long)
I think one of the main reason of Humans camping are the maps... I'm developing my second map (almost finished) and my main focus is how to prevent humans camping... I think there is a huge place for improvement ... For example, if the human base is in "one-exit" room... you will not see but camping, however, If you offer quick exits, humans may take it more often. One of the several things I will add in my map for this purpose, for example, are some med stations and a fixed armories around the map, so they can get out knowing that they don't need to return to base for ammo/health. Open areas (not so open) for jetters, and adding also special triggers around the map (I'm not talking about arcade mod) to increase fun, also helps... and so on...
this are my 10cents.... :jetpack:
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My idea to prevent camping is designate certain 'zones'. If we take ATCS for example, Alien Base is zone 1. Alien hallway part 1, 2 and 3 (the certain slopes with red lights in them) & Alien entrance. If you are in a certain zone for more than 20 seconds, you are camping & you will slowly lose health 5-10% per second. If you are a builder class or if you are in your own zone (Human in Human base) then the camp does not count and you will not lose health. Lets have an example. If a tyrant is waiting outside human base (human entrance) for 20 seconds, the Tyrant will lose 10% of its health until the tyrant leaves the human entrance (eg, moves to the bunker). HOWEVER, If a human is standing in human base, human entrance, human hallway 1, 2 or 3, then they will not lose health. OR, if the human/alien is of a builder class then they will not lose health. While this won't stop camping, it will give the camped class a few seconds to regroup, or form an attack on the campee.
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Open areas (not so open) for jetters,
This way you allow campers to jetcamp.
My idea to prevent camping is designate certain 'zones'. If we take ATCS for example, Alien Base is zone 1. Alien hallway part 1, 2 and 3 (the certain slopes with red lights in them) & Alien entrance. If you are in a certain zone for more than 20 seconds, you are camping & you will slowly lose health 5-10% per second. If you are a builder class or if you are in your own zone (Human in Human base) then the camp does not count and you will not lose health. Lets have an example. If a tyrant is waiting outside human base (human entrance) for 20 seconds, the Tyrant will lose 10% of its health until the tyrant leaves the human entrance (eg, moves to the bunker). HOWEVER, If a human is standing in human base, human entrance, human hallway 1, 2 or 3, then they will not lose health. OR, if the human/alien is of a builder class then they will not lose health. While this won't stop camping, it will give the camped class a few seconds to regroup, or form an attack on the campee.
Removing health is basically bad idea, it just annoys people (=much less fun), also, if I want to move base to the bunker, nobody would be able to cover me. Not to mention that some epic battles takes much more than 20 secs.
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My idea to prevent camping is designate certain 'zones'. If we take ATCS for example, Alien Base is zone 1. Alien hallway part 1, 2 and 3 (the certain slopes with red lights in them) & Alien entrance. If you are in a certain zone for more than 20 seconds, you are camping & you will slowly lose health 5-10% per second. If you are a builder class or if you are in your own zone (Human in Human base) then the camp does not count and you will not lose health. Lets have an example. If a tyrant is waiting outside human base (human entrance) for 20 seconds, the Tyrant will lose 10% of its health until the tyrant leaves the human entrance (eg, moves to the bunker). HOWEVER, If a human is standing in human base, human entrance, human hallway 1, 2 or 3, then they will not lose health. OR, if the human/alien is of a builder class then they will not lose health. While this won't stop camping, it will give the camped class a few seconds to regroup, or form an attack on the campee.
So you want to take hp from those humans that make it to the alien side of the map, but not those who camp? Also it seriously discourages building outposts. If there is a rant waiting outside human base, get 3 shotgun+helm+armor, and kill it. And try to cover each other, so the rant can't finish any of you off in first 2 hits.
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My idea to prevent camping is designate certain 'zones'. If we take ATCS for example, Alien Base is zone 1. Alien hallway part 1, 2 and 3 (the certain slopes with red lights in them) & Alien entrance. If you are in a certain zone for more than 20 seconds, you are camping & you will slowly lose health 5-10% per second. If you are a builder class or if you are in your own zone (Human in Human base) then the camp does not count and you will not lose health. Lets have an example. If a tyrant is waiting outside human base (human entrance) for 20 seconds, the Tyrant will lose 10% of its health until the tyrant leaves the human entrance (eg, moves to the bunker). HOWEVER, If a human is standing in human base, human entrance, human hallway 1, 2 or 3, then they will not lose health. OR, if the human/alien is of a builder class then they will not lose health. While this won't stop camping, it will give the camped class a few seconds to regroup, or form an attack on the campee.
Wow.
So you think the ones in the enemies base should be constantly losing health? While the campers are ok? What about moving your base? What about like someone else mentioned long battles. Plus that is just so annoying to have happen to you.
Summary: You sir, are an idiot.
Summary of the Summary: OBJECTION! (http://objection.mrdictionary.net/go.php?n=3086569)
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Open areas (not so open) for jetters,
This way you allow campers to jetcamp.
Yes, you are right... that is why I specified "not so open" to prevent jetcamp... even in atcs, I think, bunker area its quite open... don't you think? I mean the idea is not that high, not that low... something in between which allow humans to use jetters but allow aliens to hunt some...
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You sir, are an idiot.
Maybe, but here he just posted a totally useless and not thought through idea.
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Perhaps a certain amount of health should be taken away from the players that get X amount of kills in one life. This would not only discourage killwhoring and camping all in one, but some people may be more keen to show how 1337 they are by having 10 more than X kills in one life. This also helps the noobs who can only manage one kill every life or so. The 1337 pro peeps can still contribute to the team, but if they camp, then they have less health, making them easier to kill. If the 1337 pros get X amount of health taken away it should really encourage thoughtful gameplay instead of kamikaze rushes.
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They will just suicide and start killing again. Please don't post ideas like this. It is better to encourage teamwork or reward successful rushes then it is to discourage camping/killwhoring since either may be needed for short time at some point and most such methods are frustrating for the players.
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Well I think to stop jet camping the jetpacks need fuel. It refuels when you buy ammo.
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They do this on pornserv you get about 2-3 minutes
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Well I think to stop jet camping the jetpacks need fuel. It refuels when you buy ammo.
This does indeed sound very interesting! Also: shut off that damn noise please!
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Well I think to stop jet camping the jetpacks need fuel. It refuels when you buy ammo.
done already
but you don't buy fuel it regenerates over time
atm the defaults i think is 1min in air or something but id have to check my patch to be sure
this is my version im talking about i don't know how pornserv version works prob same way
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The solution to camping is Domination (http://tremulous.net/forum/index.php?topic=12579.0). Players need to go outside their base to capture domination points to get more BP.
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There is no camping issue, there is a player issue.
As I find it, the only people who camp, are either noobs, or killwhores. The noobs need easy kills because they can't face down the skilled players, and the killwhores just want kills. The people who actually understand the equation: no base+humans=bad, rush in and destroy the base, gaining enough kills while inside the base to supply their next attack. These people normally end up with a decent killcount, and actually contributed to the game.
Take clan-wars and scrims for example. There is no camping issue here (if the clans are good). Humans are outside alien base protecting the luci-suit who rushes the eggs half the time, goons are covering the tyrant who rushes the RC the other half. There is no camping problem, there is simply a problem with the players. I suggest playing on a server with less killwhores and noobs, and more people who actually understand how to win a game.
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There is no camping issue, there is a player issue.
You can't always find enough good players on a team to win the game in a reasonable amount of time, as camping allows the enemy team to easily delay the game for a very long time, and THAT is an issue. The ability to make the game boring by doing nothing = issue. Domination does solve it if done right.
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There is no camping issue, there is a player issue.
As I find it, the only people who camp, are either noobs, or killwhores. The noobs need easy kills because they can't face down the skilled players, and the killwhores just want kills. The people who actually understand the equation: no base+humans=bad, rush in and destroy the base, gaining enough kills while inside the base to supply their next attack. These people normally end up with a decent killcount, and actually contributed to the game.
Take clan-wars and scrims for example. There is no camping issue here (if the clans are good). Humans are outside alien base protecting the luci-suit who rushes the eggs half the time, goons are covering the tyrant who rushes the RC the other half. There is no camping problem, there is simply a problem with the players. I suggest playing on a server with less killwhores and noobs, and more people who actually understand how to win a game.
It's probably true that new players are most often the only players to camp, but camping does give players an advantage. I, and any other player can camp in my base, but I won't because I think it's utterly boring. But some people still do camp, even on the official servers. Camping works.
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It's probably true that new players are most often the only players to camp, but camping does give players an advantage. I, and any other player can camp in my base, but I won't because I think it's utterly boring. But some people still do camp, even on the official servers. Camping works.
I'll have to agree with you there. Camping gives noobs an opportunity seize a kill, and it helps them learn the dynamics of different classes and weapons. Otherwise they'd have to try and overpower the charging dragoon, instead of catching him off guard as he exist the base.