Tremulous Forum
Media => Mapping Center => Topic started by: WaxyChicken on December 27, 2008, 07:55:32 am
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By default, is a brush structural or detail?
what is the difference between structural and detail?
eg: can you stand on detail? do they cast shadows?
what is the best use for 'detailing' a brush?
I've found many tutorials talking about them, but nothing really telling me the difference.
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http://tremulous.net/forum/index.php?topic=9719.0
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To understand this you need a basic understanding of how q3map2 compiles .map files. The only difference between structural and detail brushes is that structural brushes block visibility, detail brushes do not. Brushes are structural by default. Maps need a "vishull" which is a set of structural brushes that completely seal the internal volume of the map from the void. If a brush within the map volume does not need to block visibility then it should be detail else unnecessary vis portals will be created during compilation (this leads to long compile times, issues when optimising and even slow rendering).
Radiant screenshots:
Structural only (http://www.haosredro.com/trem/img/struct.jpg)
Structural + detail (http://www.haosredro.com/trem/img/struct+detail.jpg)
Structural + detail + patches (http://www.haosredro.com/trem/img/struct+detail+patch.jpg)
The mapping wiki has some links to vis/hint tutorials: http://tremmapping.pbwiki.com/Mapping+Guides+and+Tutorials
On a side-note, I've noticed that the .map for collapsed transit tunnel is completely uncaulked. The pink "caulk" shader should be applied to all hidden faces as this stops them from being rendered in game. It's often good practice to create new brushes that are entirely textured in caulk then to only apply textures to the visible faces.
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Ugh!
By the sounds of it your new to mapping. But i have no idea what your talking about and im halfway into publishing my first map :-[
Its at times like this i realise how little i know :-\
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If a brush within the map volume does not need to block visibility then it should be detail
but those walls you show in the second screenshot look to me like they are blocking the visibility of the walls behind them.
i lost ya.
as far as caulk, i have since learned to use it after my first version of Collapse Transit Tunnel. I have considered doing a complete re-texture of it for this release however I've received nearly no complaints for performance so the work outweighed the profit. I've also noted from my Battle Arena maps that should you caulk the side of a brush that touches the void then it will create a map leak. Why this is so i do not know.
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Caulk shouldn't cause a leak ???
For vis, take a look at this Understanding Vis and Hint Brushes (http://tremmapping.pbwiki.com/Understanding+Vis+and+Hint+Brushes)
Basically structural brushes are used to divide the map into areas, and it renders only the areas that are visible from anywhere in the area you are in. So in the pic Taiyo posted, the whole room would be considered 1-3 areas. Too many splits would cause a huge compile time.
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Let me see if I can help.
__ __ __
Think of structural brushes and detail brushes this way: |__| |__| |__|
For my map I've made three boxes: One human base, One alien base, and one engagement area. The players are able to teleport between them. The only thing in this map that should be STRUCTURAL is the actual boxes themselves. Everything else (inside these boxes) should be detail. In fact, detail brushes should be your default when you have completed building the structural brushes. The best way to understand structural brushes is THEY SLOW THINGS DOWN. That's what I always tell myself. Your map looks AMAZING and I hope someday I can make models like that. ;)
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They also speed things up if they're used properly to reduce your PVS....
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its like this, when u make a room like so
____________
| [] |
| [|
| [] |
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[] and [ being random things added to the map for realism, such as a piller or a poster on the wall.
_-| being the walls themselves.
everything within |_- should be detail brushes, the walls should be structural. reason being, when u compile a map with EVERY brush being structrual, your compile time could take anywhere from 1hour - a week (it depends on how big and how detailed the map is.)
the reason it can take so long is because the vis(vision) has to take in account every single little brush that is structural and it can take forever with every brush being structural. so with the room i made, if the pillers and the poster are detail brushes, when compiling, the vis wont even see them there and makes the room as if it were an empty box. making it go a lot faster.
ill post screenshots later for better help
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how do u make something structural, or detail?
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"Brush-->Make Detail/Make Structural."
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Theoretical question: If you had the combined efforts of NASA and HAL 9000 to compile your map for you, would making every single brush structural have any significant benefit for low-end computers? Or would it constantly induce that effect of players rendering after a delay when moving out of vis-blocked areas?
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Significant benefit? Probably not. Visibility calculation will impact the rendering time, no matter what.
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another thing to know is that using detail brushes makes it easier to imbue hint brushes that will actually work
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how do u make something structural, or detail?
http://tremmapping.pbwiki.com/Starting+Tremulous+Mapping#DecorationDetailing (http://tremmapping.pbwiki.com/Starting+Tremulous+Mapping#DecorationDetailing)
Have you EVER read any guides?
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If a brush within the map volume does not need to block visibility then it should be detail
but those walls you show in the second screenshot look to me like they are blocking the visibility of the walls behind them.
i lost ya.
Read: "Detail brushes are transparent to q3map2"
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yea ive actually read most of them, its just right before the part i need, i c something cool so i go try it, then i never read parts like caulk and structural brushes.. then i gotta go back... stupid habbit